caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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I agree, Trump has alienated people. From a policy position, why? From a party position, why?

I think those two question have some interesting answers, to consider…

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You can't separate his behavior from his policy. Most voters vote for the total package of benefits and faults, not just a list of policy positions.

Jan 6 and Stop the Steal were a bridge too far for many that otherwise may have been able to look past his glaring personal/personality defects.

That, and I think many on the right now see a much more electable candidate in DeSantis that checks a whole lot of the boxes Trump checked, with fewer flaws holding him, and therefore the party, back.

You'd probably see more right-leaning swing and moderates being more willing to hold their nose and ride with Trump if they didn't already see the newer, faster, more reliable car sitting in the garage.

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Civ, I guess that makes me more capably diverse than you. I can separate the person/behavior and the policy.

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BBW12OG said:

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Here you go Civ... why don't you stand up for the party you support?

These are the damn policies and programs YOU support right?

Stop dodging the question. Pretend to be somebody that has enough character to justify a position rather than always hiding from facts. It may be tough for you but give it a shot.

Here are a few things that Civ, Marco, Traffic, Hokie, Plasma the rest of the libbies' party support

They may not agree with all of the above but when they vote in line with their MARXIST PARTY this is what they are voting for whether they agree with all or not.

These are the type of people that, I promise you, could care less about the issues, only about their party and making fun of the "rubes", as Hokie called us a few weeks ago, that aren't as intelligent as them.

Try and deny that.

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Civilized said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Here you go Civ... why don't you stand up for the party you support?

These are the damn policies and programs YOU support right?

Stop dodging the question. Pretend to be somebody that has enough character to justify a position rather than always hiding from facts. It may be tough for you but give it a shot.

Here are a few things that Civ, Marco, Traffic, Hokie, Plasma the rest of the libbies' party support

They may not agree with all of the above but when they vote in line with their MARXIST PARTY this is what they are voting for whether they agree with all or not.

These are the type of people that, I promise you, could care less about the issues, only about their party and making fun of the "rubes", as Hokie called us a few weeks ago, that aren't as intelligent as them.

Try and deny that.

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Sorry, do you have an actual, genuine question?

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packgrad said:

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You understand you do the same thing, right? Calling January 6th an" insurrection ", calling Stop the Steal an "attack" on the country, calling January 6th an "attack" on the country are all exaggerations or misrepresentations. You're fine with those types of "good faith" arguments so long as they fit your narrative. We can bring up Russia, bleach, collusion if you want to expand the "good faith" arguments that suit your narrative.

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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You understand you do the same thing, right? Calling January 6th an" insurrection ", calling Stop the Steal an "attack" on the country, calling January 6th an "attack" on the country are all exaggerations or misrepresentations. You're fine with those types of "good faith" arguments so long as they fit your narrative. We can bring up Russia, bleach, collusion if you want to expand the "good faith" arguments that suit your narrative.

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OK.

Then what is the most middle-of-the-road, accurate way to describe Trump's monthslong efforts and pressures to overturn the results of the free and fair presidential election that he lost, that then resulted in whatever you want to call January 6?

How would you describe those events in what you consider to be the least-biased way possible?

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packgrad said:

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How about we just call it what you call it when your side does it?

Politics

Protest.

Simple, eh?

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hokiewolf said:

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packgrad said:

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How about we just call it what you call it when your side does it?

Politics

Protest.

Simple, eh?

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I'm not trying to be argumentative, I somewhat agree with your assertion on the protests. Where I disagree with you is the part where Trump and his advisors tried to skew the 12th amendment into making Mike Pence a dictator who ultimately decides the election.

I just don't understand how this can be ignored, especially sense it goes against the originalist arguments regarding constitutional law.

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ncsualum05 said:

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This isn't really about what I can analyze, believe, separate, perceive, etc. That's what I always keep in mind when thinking about politics. Like with everything else it is your perception, narrative, reputation, appearance that follows you through masses and media. I am hoping DeSantis declares and he has got my vote. It's his time in my opinion... there won't be a better time to capitalize on your political clout. Let me explain...

On DeSantis... it's not about his age. Certainly he's young and has time. But political popularity can be very short lived. You can be the hot new thing one year and by the next year people have moved on. The time for DeSantis is now... he's governed Fl like a boss, he's known as "America's" governor, he stood up for education, stood up against COVID BS, has done great with emergency situations like hurricanes, and is just overall an effective leader. You have to be a good leader and you also have to be presentable. Looking good, sounding good, having a nice looking family... that stuff matters. DeSantis has the entire package. It's like having most of the good policy of Trump without having... Trump. The media of course will attack him as they do all conservatives but DeSantis right now has become one of the most popular politicians in the country and has dominated Florida all while showing the blueprint for what GOP could do. The midterms tell the story.... GOP floundered everywhere except in a few areas and dominated Florida. Florida used to be the ultimate swing state... it's now solid red.

Trump on the other hand is completely tainted by his first term in office and the 2020 election. This is not a debate about election integrity or what happened with Jan 6th. I don't give a **** and that has been argued by both sides for years. The narrative however is against Trump on this one... right, wrong, or indifferent he is damaged goods by this. HE will never get enough independent vote at this point or even a lot of moderate republicans. He is 76 years old and will be 78 by the election. Biden is up there too. I'm tired of geriatrics for president and I'll bet most of America is as well. Trump and Biden both have the image of old crusty perverted demented individuals. If Trump runs again people will vote against him more than they did Biden or democrats. Why? Proof is in pudding. We have the data. Trump won big in 2016 when no one thought he could. Every election thereafter the GOP has lost. Now they did regain the house in 2022... but given the state of the country and how unpopular Biden and dems are that was a pathetic performance. The dems actually gained in the senate.

Long post sorry. Final thought. I want to win. If you're a GOP/ conservative person... do you want to win? Ask yourself honestly... analyze the map, look at the past results. Can Trump really win? How's he winning AZ, NV, GA, PA, MI, WI? How are you getting to 270? Who has a better shot at uniting voters to usher in change in 2024... Trump or DeSantis? To me it's clear.

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hokiewolf said:

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packgrad said:

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How about we just call it what you call it when your side does it?

Politics

Protest.

Simple, eh?

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I'm not trying to be argumentative, I somewhat agree with your assertion on the protests. Where I disagree with you is the part where Trump and his advisors tried to skew the 12th amendment into making Mike Pence a dictator who ultimately decides the election.

I just don't understand how this can be ignored, especially sense it goes against the originalist arguments regarding constitutional law.

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Civilized said:

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LOL

Nothing says "clear winners" like "old crusty perverted demented individuals."

Good post. I agree.

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WolfpackHooligan said:

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What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?

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WolfpackHooligan said:

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What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?

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curmudgeon.zen said:

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I'd rather have DeSantis in the White House for 12-16 years rather than just 8.

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packgrad said:

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You understand you do the same thing, right? Calling January 6th an" insurrection ", calling Stop the Steal an "attack" on the country, calling January 6th an "attack" on the country are all exaggerations or misrepresentations. You're fine with those types of "good faith" arguments so long as they fit your narrative. We can bring up Russia, bleach, collusion if you want to expand the "good faith" arguments that suit your narrative.

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caryking said:

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WolfpackHooligan said:

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What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?

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If he loses the primary, I hope he doesn't run as an independent..

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Werewolf said:

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caryking said:

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WolfpackHooligan said:

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What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?

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If he loses the primary, I hope he doesn't run as an independent..

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I don't think Trump is candidate beyond another 9-12 months.........at least that's my suspicion......but he's certainly an announced candidate. We'll see what happen.

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caryking said:

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Werewolf said:

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caryking said:

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WolfpackHooligan said:

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What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?

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If he loses the primary, I hope he doesn't run as an independent..

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I don't think Trump is candidate beyond another 9-12 months.........at least that's my suspicion......but he's certainly an announced candidate. We'll see what happen.

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What makes you say that, Were?

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Werewolf said:

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caryking said:

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Werewolf said:

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caryking said:

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WolfpackHooligan said:

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What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?

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If he loses the primary, I hope he doesn't run as an independent..

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I don't think Trump is candidate beyond another 9-12 months.........at least that's my suspicion......but he's certainly an announced candidate. We'll see what happen.

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What makes you say that, Were?

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I think Trump's job may been completed. I think he could stay in the race if there is not an alternative. I like DeSantis like most here do but - like you - I see all the Globalist money stacking up behind him so I'm concerned.

All that MAGA has fought for could very easily be pissed down the drain if DeSantis can easily be controlled. I realize DeSantis was Freedom Caucus but that's no guarantee.

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ncsualum05 said:

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Werewolf said:

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caryking said:

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Werewolf said:

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caryking said:

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WolfpackHooligan said:

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What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?

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If he loses the primary, I hope he doesn't run as an independent..

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I don't think Trump is candidate beyond another 9-12 months.........at least that's my suspicion......but he's certainly an announced candidate. We'll see what happen.

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What makes you say that, Were?

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I think Trump's job may been completed. I think he could stay in the race if there is not an alternative. I like DeSantis like most here do but - like you - I see all the Globalist money stacking up behind him so I'm concerned.

All that MAGA has fought for could very easily be pissed down the drain if DeSantis can easily be controlled. I realize DeSantis was Freedom Caucus but that's no guarantee.

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I don't know how to tell you this but you are not getting your ideal above bird clean type of leader…ever. We're talking about the best candidate to slow the decline of America and society. It'll still decline but will have pockets of good times hopefully with someone like DeSantis. Yep he will no doubt be bought to get to that position. But let's just see how it all plays out. He might not be that bad.

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ncsualum05 said:

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WolfpackHooligan said:

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What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?

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It would be the worst thing ever for this country if he did that but unfortunately nothing would surprise me with Trump. Not sure his ego would allow him to lose the primary and just step aside to help unite everyone.

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caryking said:

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These are the type of things we should all be concerned with. These people have way too much power in our country…

https://warroom.org/2022/11/18/anti-trump-billionaire-ken-griffin-admits-companys-investment-in-china-is-center-of-focus-and-will-increase/

BTW, I'm not here to say a global company can't expend their business around the world; rather, what type of influence do they have within our political system?

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