TRUMP 2024

186,390 Views | 2885 Replies | Last: 7 hrs ago by Werewolf
Civilized
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caryking said:

Civilized said:

caryking said:

I agree, Trump has alienated people. From a policy position, why? From a party position, why?

I think those two question have some interesting answers, to consider…

You can't separate his behavior from his policy. Most voters vote for the total package of benefits and faults, not just a list of policy positions.

Jan 6 and Stop the Steal were a bridge too far for many that otherwise may have been able to look past his glaring personal/personality defects.

That, and I think many on the right now see a much more electable candidate in DeSantis that checks a whole lot of the boxes Trump checked, with fewer flaws holding him, and therefore the party, back.

You'd probably see more right-leaning swing and moderates being more willing to hold their nose and ride with Trump if they didn't already see the newer, faster, more reliable car sitting in the garage.
Civ, I guess that makes me more capably diverse than you. I can separate the person/behavior and the policy.

And evidently you can separate Jan 6 and the Big Lie/Stop the Steal from the policy too. Jan 6 and Stop the Steal weren't "mean tweets." They were attacks.

Most Americans don't want a president capable of spearheading insurrection or threatening to overturn free and fair elections.

Policy is secondary to threats on democracy in the eyes of most Americans.
Civilized
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BBW12OG said:

Here you go Civ... why don't you stand up for the party you support?

These are the damn policies and programs YOU support right?

Stop dodging the question. Pretend to be somebody that has enough character to justify a position rather than always hiding from facts. It may be tough for you but give it a shot.

Here are a few things that Civ, Marco, Traffic, Hokie, Plasma the rest of the libbies' party support

They may not agree with all of the above but when they vote in line with their MARXIST PARTY this is what they are voting for whether they agree with all or not.

These are the type of people that, I promise you, could care less about the issues, only about their party and making fun of the "rubes", as Hokie called us a few weeks ago, that aren't as intelligent as them.

Try and deny that.

Sorry, do you have an actual, genuine question?
BBW12OG
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Civilized said:

BBW12OG said:

Here you go Civ... why don't you stand up for the party you support?

These are the damn policies and programs YOU support right?

Stop dodging the question. Pretend to be somebody that has enough character to justify a position rather than always hiding from facts. It may be tough for you but give it a shot.

Here are a few things that Civ, Marco, Traffic, Hokie, Plasma the rest of the libbies' party support

They may not agree with all of the above but when they vote in line with their MARXIST PARTY this is what they are voting for whether they agree with all or not.

These are the type of people that, I promise you, could care less about the issues, only about their party and making fun of the "rubes", as Hokie called us a few weeks ago, that aren't as intelligent as them.

Try and deny that.

Sorry, do you have an actual, genuine question?
Yeah... and you have read it several times but in typical Civ fashion you fail to own the policies you support.

It's obvious you have no desire to stand behind the policies you support openly and that says a lot about your lack of character.

Take that however you want but it's no secret.
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
Civilized
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BBW12OG said:

Yeah... and you have read it several times but in typical Civ fashion you fail to own the policies you support.

It's obvious you have no desire to stand behind the policies you support openly and that says a lot about your lack of character.

Take that however you want but it's no secret.

How do you know what policies I support when you don't ask me? You just tell me what you think they are and have a conversation with yourself about it.

I respond to all good-faith questions and conversation on here or in person. I really enjoy talking policy/politics.

But you don't have any desire to converse in good faith on here and just want to sling insults and red herrings all over the board.

Virtually all of the "lefty policies" you listed are either exaggerations or misrepresentations of progressive policies or just made-up Very few, and maybe none, of the policies you listed, as listed, would have broad electoral support even amongst progressives.

That's not conversation. It's just obnoxious.
packgrad
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You understand you do the same thing, right? Calling January 6th an" insurrection ", calling Stop the Steal an "attack" on the country, calling January 6th an "attack" on the country are all exaggerations or misrepresentations. You're fine with those types of "good faith" arguments so long as they fit your narrative. We can bring up Russia, bleach, collusion if you want to expand the "good faith" arguments that suit your narrative.
Civilized
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packgrad said:

You understand you do the same thing, right? Calling January 6th an" insurrection ", calling Stop the Steal an "attack" on the country, calling January 6th an "attack" on the country are all exaggerations or misrepresentations. You're fine with those types of "good faith" arguments so long as they fit your narrative. We can bring up Russia, bleach, collusion if you want to expand the "good faith" arguments that suit your narrative.

OK.

Then what is the most middle-of-the-road, accurate way to describe Trump's monthslong efforts and pressures to overturn the results of the free and fair presidential election that he lost, that then resulted in whatever you want to call January 6?

How would you describe those events in what you consider to be the least-biased way possible?

packgrad
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Civilized said:

packgrad said:

You understand you do the same thing, right? Calling January 6th an" insurrection ", calling Stop the Steal an "attack" on the country, calling January 6th an "attack" on the country are all exaggerations or misrepresentations. You're fine with those types of "good faith" arguments so long as they fit your narrative. We can bring up Russia, bleach, collusion if you want to expand the "good faith" arguments that suit your narrative.

OK.

Then what is the most middle-of-the-road, accurate way to describe Trump's monthslong efforts and pressures to overturn the results of the free and fair presidential election that he lost, that then resulted in whatever you want to call January 6?

How would you describe those events in what you consider to be the least-biased way possible?




How about we just call it what you call it when your side does it?

Politics

Protest.

Simple, eh?
ncsualum05
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This isn't really about what I can analyze, believe, separate, perceive, etc. That's what I always keep in mind when thinking about politics. Like with everything else it is your perception, narrative, reputation, appearance that follows you through masses and media. I am hoping DeSantis declares and he has got my vote. It's his time in my opinion... there won't be a better time to capitalize on your political clout. Let me explain...

On DeSantis... it's not about his age. Certainly he's young and has time. But political popularity can be very short lived. You can be the hot new thing one year and by the next year people have moved on. The time for DeSantis is now... he's governed Fl like a boss, he's known as "America's" governor, he stood up for education, stood up against COVID BS, has done great with emergency situations like hurricanes, and is just overall an effective leader. You have to be a good leader and you also have to be presentable. Looking good, sounding good, having a nice looking family... that stuff matters. DeSantis has the entire package. It's like having most of the good policy of Trump without having... Trump. The media of course will attack him as they do all conservatives but DeSantis right now has become one of the most popular politicians in the country and has dominated Florida all while showing the blueprint for what GOP could do. The midterms tell the story.... GOP floundered everywhere except in a few areas and dominated Florida. Florida used to be the ultimate swing state... it's now solid red.

Trump on the other hand is completely tainted by his first term in office and the 2020 election. This is not a debate about election integrity or what happened with Jan 6th. I don't give a **** and that has been argued by both sides for years. The narrative however is against Trump on this one... right, wrong, or indifferent he is damaged goods by this. HE will never get enough independent vote at this point or even a lot of moderate republicans. He is 76 years old and will be 78 by the election. Biden is up there too. I'm tired of geriatrics for president and I'll bet most of America is as well. Trump and Biden both have the image of old crusty perverted demented individuals. If Trump runs again people will vote against him more than they did Biden or democrats. Why? Proof is in pudding. We have the data. Trump won big in 2016 when no one thought he could. Every election thereafter the GOP has lost. Now they did regain the house in 2022... but given the state of the country and how unpopular Biden and dems are that was a pathetic performance. The dems actually gained in the senate.

Long post sorry. Final thought. I want to win. If you're a GOP/ conservative person... do you want to win? Ask yourself honestly... analyze the map, look at the past results. Can Trump really win? How's he winning AZ, NV, GA, PA, MI, WI? How are you getting to 270? Who has a better shot at uniting voters to usher in change in 2024... Trump or DeSantis? To me it's clear.
packgrad
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Agreed
Civilized
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LOL

Nothing says "clear winners" like "old crusty perverted demented individuals."

Good post. I agree.
Gopack80
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Time to move on. He's not the answer this time around.
hokiewolf
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packgrad said:




How about we just call it what you call it when your side does it?

Politics

Protest.

Simple, eh?
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I somewhat agree with your assertion on the protests. Where I disagree with you is the part where Trump and his advisors tried to skew the 12th amendment into making Mike Pence a dictator who ultimately decides the election.

I just don't understand how this can be ignored, especially sense it goes against the originalist arguments regarding constitutional law.
packgrad
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hokiewolf said:

packgrad said:




How about we just call it what you call it when your side does it?

Politics

Protest.

Simple, eh?
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I somewhat agree with your assertion on the protests. Where I disagree with you is the part where Trump and his advisors tried to skew the 12th amendment into making Mike Pence a dictator who ultimately decides the election.

I just don't understand how this can be ignored, especially sense it goes against the originalist arguments regarding constitutional law.
Hyperbole. Many presidents run afoul of the constitution in their ideas and have to be reigned in.

Nobody is ignoring behind the scenes discussions that did not come to fruition. Many are hyperbolizing them though.

Wonder why no one that's independent or leftist on this site discuss the 25th amendment with this president? I know it was a frequent discussion before. More politics I guess. But, then again, that's not what this thread is about either.
caryking
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Civilized said:

caryking said:

Civilized said:

caryking said:

I agree, Trump has alienated people. From a policy position, why? From a party position, why?

I think those two question have some interesting answers, to consider…

You can't separate his behavior from his policy. Most voters vote for the total package of benefits and faults, not just a list of policy positions.

Jan 6 and Stop the Steal were a bridge too far for many that otherwise may have been able to look past his glaring personal/personality defects.

That, and I think many on the right now see a much more electable candidate in DeSantis that checks a whole lot of the boxes Trump checked, with fewer flaws holding him, and therefore the party, back.

You'd probably see more right-leaning swing and moderates being more willing to hold their nose and ride with Trump if they didn't already see the newer, faster, more reliable car sitting in the garage.
Civ, I guess that makes me more capably diverse than you. I can separate the person/behavior and the policy.

And evidently you can separate Jan 6 and the Big Lie/Stop the Steal from the policy too. Jan 6 and Stop the Steal weren't "mean tweets." They were attacks.

Most Americans don't want a president capable of spearheading insurrection or threatening to overturn free and fair elections.

Policy is secondary to threats on democracy in the eyes of most Americans.
And you voted for a guy that has aligned with a "Real Insurrection" of our country. Profited immensely off the communist regime, in China.

I'm sorry, your examples are media concocted real "BIG LIES". My example is a FACT, that you can't deny.

Unfortunately, for people, like you, that proclaim Republican biases (whatever the hell you were trying to pollute us with), have shown to be the most inept thinking moron on this board.

All I can say is…. Good luck with yourself…
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
caryking
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ncsualum05 said:

This isn't really about what I can analyze, believe, separate, perceive, etc. That's what I always keep in mind when thinking about politics. Like with everything else it is your perception, narrative, reputation, appearance that follows you through masses and media. I am hoping DeSantis declares and he has got my vote. It's his time in my opinion... there won't be a better time to capitalize on your political clout. Let me explain...

On DeSantis... it's not about his age. Certainly he's young and has time. But political popularity can be very short lived. You can be the hot new thing one year and by the next year people have moved on. The time for DeSantis is now... he's governed Fl like a boss, he's known as "America's" governor, he stood up for education, stood up against COVID BS, has done great with emergency situations like hurricanes, and is just overall an effective leader. You have to be a good leader and you also have to be presentable. Looking good, sounding good, having a nice looking family... that stuff matters. DeSantis has the entire package. It's like having most of the good policy of Trump without having... Trump. The media of course will attack him as they do all conservatives but DeSantis right now has become one of the most popular politicians in the country and has dominated Florida all while showing the blueprint for what GOP could do. The midterms tell the story.... GOP floundered everywhere except in a few areas and dominated Florida. Florida used to be the ultimate swing state... it's now solid red.

Trump on the other hand is completely tainted by his first term in office and the 2020 election. This is not a debate about election integrity or what happened with Jan 6th. I don't give a **** and that has been argued by both sides for years. The narrative however is against Trump on this one... right, wrong, or indifferent he is damaged goods by this. HE will never get enough independent vote at this point or even a lot of moderate republicans. He is 76 years old and will be 78 by the election. Biden is up there too. I'm tired of geriatrics for president and I'll bet most of America is as well. Trump and Biden both have the image of old crusty perverted demented individuals. If Trump runs again people will vote against him more than they did Biden or democrats. Why? Proof is in pudding. We have the data. Trump won big in 2016 when no one thought he could. Every election thereafter the GOP has lost. Now they did regain the house in 2022... but given the state of the country and how unpopular Biden and dems are that was a pathetic performance. The dems actually gained in the senate.

Long post sorry. Final thought. I want to win. If you're a GOP/ conservative person... do you want to win? Ask yourself honestly... analyze the map, look at the past results. Can Trump really win? How's he winning AZ, NV, GA, PA, MI, WI? How are you getting to 270? Who has a better shot at uniting voters to usher in change in 2024... Trump or DeSantis? To me it's clear.
Yep, remember Scott Walker! He was the darling of the media when the 2016 election period began. That died off had he never was mentioned again. Or, and what about Tim Pawlenty…

It's going to be a fervent attack on Trump, we all know that. "Big Money" is going to be with DeSantis, just like they never were with Trump, from the beginning.

Honestly, I have my doubts, by the time, the election gets here, whether DeSantis can win. AZ, GA, and PA are going to be wild cards no matter who's on the ballot. DEM's are some crafty BA$TARD$!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
caryking
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hokiewolf said:

packgrad said:




How about we just call it what you call it when your side does it?

Politics

Protest.

Simple, eh?
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I somewhat agree with your assertion on the protests. Where I disagree with you is the part where Trump and his advisors tried to skew the 12th amendment into making Mike Pence a dictator who ultimately decides the election.

I just don't understand how this can be ignored, especially sense it goes against the originalist arguments regarding constitutional law.
Hokie, revised and/or created history is something I will never understand.

How many times does it need to be said for some on here to get it through their puny head? A request was made to Pence for the following: take the letters he received, from State legislators, for 10 days to review their numbers. He could have either said yes or no. He chose no! Enough said!

It really is that simple!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
caryking
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Civilized said:

LOL

Nothing says "clear winners" like "old crusty perverted demented individuals."

Good post. I agree.
Nothing says "clear losers" like typical liberals…
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
WolfpackHooligan
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What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?
caryking
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WolfpackHooligan said:

What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?
If he loses the primary, I hope he doesn't run as an independent..
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
curmudgeon.zen
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I'd rather have DeSantis in the White House for 12-16 years rather than just 8.
Log off. Go outside.
ncsualum05
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WolfpackHooligan said:

What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?
It would be the worst thing ever for this country if he did that but unfortunately nothing would surprise me with Trump. Not sure his ego would allow him to lose the primary and just step aside to help unite everyone.
NCTrafficMan
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curmudgeon.zen said:

I'd rather have DeSantis in the White House for 12-16 years rather than just 8.
Go live in Russia or North Korea. You can live under a ruler that will never leave office until they die.

What is it with you far right MAGA cult members that makes you want to live under a dictator?

Werewolf
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packgrad said:

You understand you do the same thing, right? Calling January 6th an" insurrection ", calling Stop the Steal an "attack" on the country, calling January 6th an "attack" on the country are all exaggerations or misrepresentations. You're fine with those types of "good faith" arguments so long as they fit your narrative. We can bring up Russia, bleach, collusion if you want to expand the "good faith" arguments that suit your narrative.
He hasn't a clue what occurred on 1/6
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
Werewolf
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caryking said:

WolfpackHooligan said:

What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?
If he loses the primary, I hope he doesn't run as an independent..
I don't think Trump is candidate beyond another 9-12 months.........at least that's my suspicion......but he's certainly an announced candidate. We'll see what happen.
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
caryking
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Werewolf said:

caryking said:

WolfpackHooligan said:

What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?
If he loses the primary, I hope he doesn't run as an independent..
I don't think Trump is candidate beyond another 9-12 months.........at least that's my suspicion......but he's certainly an announced candidate. We'll see what happen.


What makes you say that, Were?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Werewolf
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caryking said:

Werewolf said:

caryking said:

WolfpackHooligan said:

What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?
If he loses the primary, I hope he doesn't run as an independent..
I don't think Trump is candidate beyond another 9-12 months.........at least that's my suspicion......but he's certainly an announced candidate. We'll see what happen.


What makes you say that, Were?
I think Trump's job may been completed. I think he could stay in the race if there is not an alternative. I like DeSantis like most here do but - like you - I see all the Globalist money stacking up behind him so I'm concerned.

All that MAGA has fought for could very easily be pissed down the drain if DeSantis can easily be controlled. I realize DeSantis was Freedom Caucus but that's no guarantee.
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
ncsualum05
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Werewolf said:

caryking said:

Werewolf said:

caryking said:

WolfpackHooligan said:

What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?
If he loses the primary, I hope he doesn't run as an independent..
I don't think Trump is candidate beyond another 9-12 months.........at least that's my suspicion......but he's certainly an announced candidate. We'll see what happen.


What makes you say that, Were?
I think Trump's job may been completed. I think he could stay in the race if there is not an alternative. I like DeSantis like most here do but - like you - I see all the Globalist money stacking up behind him so I'm concerned.

All that MAGA has fought for could very easily be pissed down the drain if DeSantis can easily be controlled. I realize DeSantis was Freedom Caucus but that's no guarantee.



I don't know how to tell you this but you are not getting your ideal above bird clean type of leader…ever. We're talking about the best candidate to slow the decline of America and society. It'll still decline but will have pockets of good times hopefully with someone like DeSantis. Yep he will no doubt be bought to get to that position. But let's just see how it all plays out. He might not be that bad.
Werewolf
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NEW: On October 24, 2022, a petition for writ of certiorari to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals was received by the Supreme Court's clerk's office. If heard, the case involves the possible removal of a sitting President and VP along with members of the United States Congress.

"Due to the uniqueness of this case, the trial court does have proper authority to remove the Respondents from their offices under 18 U.S. Code 2381 which states "Whoever, owing allegiance to the U.S., levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the U.S. or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the U.S."

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22-380/243739/20221027152243533_20221027-152110-95757954-00007015.pdf

#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
Marco
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All these scenarios bout CONALD and his announcement for President!!Conald fixing to get indicted!!Mark it down!!Indictment is coming for that treasonous traitor!!That clown doesn't fiva damn bout being tha president!!All he care bout is grifting and telling falsehoods!!
Marco
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Need i remind yall what Liz Cheney said?You know i will!!
Werewolf
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ncsualum05 said:

Werewolf said:

caryking said:

Werewolf said:

caryking said:

WolfpackHooligan said:

What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?
If he loses the primary, I hope he doesn't run as an independent..
I don't think Trump is candidate beyond another 9-12 months.........at least that's my suspicion......but he's certainly an announced candidate. We'll see what happen.


What makes you say that, Were?
I think Trump's job may been completed. I think he could stay in the race if there is not an alternative. I like DeSantis like most here do but - like you - I see all the Globalist money stacking up behind him so I'm concerned.

All that MAGA has fought for could very easily be pissed down the drain if DeSantis can easily be controlled. I realize DeSantis was Freedom Caucus but that's no guarantee.



I don't know how to tell you this but you are not getting your ideal above bird clean type of leader…ever. We're talking about the best candidate to slow the decline of America and society. It'll still decline but will have pockets of good times hopefully with someone like DeSantis. Yep he will no doubt be bought to get to that position. But let's just see how it all plays out. He might not be that bad.
........ Globalists have no plans for America as we've known it. It's a feudalistic plan similar to the CCP system. That's our enemy behind the lines and colluding with the Chinese I believe. I think there has been a struggle between the two for dominance,but remains to be seen. It may still be in the process of being settled. We don't need any representative govt officials tied to Globalists; they're not America First.
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
WolfpackHooligan
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ncsualum05 said:

WolfpackHooligan said:

What are the odds of Trump losing the GOP primary and running as an independent?
It would be the worst thing ever for this country if he did that but unfortunately nothing would surprise me with Trump. Not sure his ego would allow him to lose the primary and just step aside to help unite everyone.
I don't think it would be a bad thing. We need viable alternatives to the 2 party system.
caryking
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These are the type of things we should all be concerned with. These people have way too much power in our country…

https://warroom.org/2022/11/18/anti-trump-billionaire-ken-griffin-admits-companys-investment-in-china-is-center-of-focus-and-will-increase/

BTW, I'm not here to say a global company can't expend their business around the world; rather, what type of influence do they have within our political system?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Werewolf
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caryking said:

These are the type of things we should all be concerned with. These people have way too much power in our country…

https://warroom.org/2022/11/18/anti-trump-billionaire-ken-griffin-admits-companys-investment-in-china-is-center-of-focus-and-will-increase/

BTW, I'm not here to say a global company can't expend their business around the world; rather, what type of influence do they have within our political system?
Precisely. They have no allegiance to our way of life...........its about power and money.

And when organizations like the WEF begin to control our govt leaders as they are now doing.
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
Werewolf
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Circumstantial evidence since 2016 continues to mount.
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
 
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