#Nappy, do yourself a favor and take two jabs this month. ;-)

[ul]
[li][color=#000000][font=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

We're watching the greatest Streisand Effect superweapon being activated by the greatest showman who has ever lived.

But you're tearing your hair out and flinging your waste.

— Patrick Gunnels (@pgunnels1) July 13, 2025

[/font][/color][/li]
[/ul]

Oldsouljer said:

---

AOC crossed a legally actionable line….only question is, did she write a check she can't cover?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/aoc-mocks-maga-world-over-epstein-files-infighting-who-would-have-thought-that-electing-a-ra-ist-would-have-complicated-the-release/ar-AA1IrbV5?ocid=BingNewsVerp

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/

Treasury and the White House fenced off for a couple of weeks now. Juan O'Savin recently mentioned a sovereign wealth fund. The FED is in Trump's crosshairs.
[color=#000000][font=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

Treasury (currently fenced off to protect it from the deep state) pic.twitter.com/zT4aBN8BQq

— HardlyAbelson (@steve_rehberg) July 11, 2025

[/font][/color]

Our MSM was all over this!!!!!!!!!!

No actually, this was inadvertently filmed, and nary a mention since.
[color=#000000][font=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

[RG911Team] No matter what the FBI, DOJ, and White House says…

Building 7 didn’t kill itself. pic.twitter.com/s9kIBGUdhA

— Richard Gage, AIA, Architect (@RichardGage_911) July 13, 2025

[/font][/color]

Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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El Lobo Loco said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Sweet, beautiful tariffs, helping Johnny Paycheck, and NASCAR!

"In the latest blow, the 100-year-old clock manufacturer that produced the iconic NASCAR Martinsville grandfather clock announced that it'd be shutting down - in part due to Trump's tariffs. "A convergence of market influences beyond our control brought us to this point," President and CEO Howard J. Miller said in an official statement.

Since 1964, Martinsville Speedway - one of the oldest tracks still featured on the NASCAR schedule - has gifted the Cup Series race winner a grandfather clock shortly after they coasted down victory lane. Fred Lorenzen first received the unique accolade that year, during which he led a whopping 980 out of 1,000 total laps over the two races held at the 'paperclip.'"

We are protecting American jobs with protectionist tariffs!

Long-standing NASCAR tradition in danger due to Donald Trump's tariffs

---

Nobody needs clocks anymore. All that is on your phone.

---

They need jobs though

---

Ok, I had to come out of retirement for this one…

Hokie, you've never shown one bit of concern for the American worker. That comment (in bold) is extremely shallow and purely opportunistic. You can do better! I'm out again…

---

no, I don't think the cure for the American worker is $15/hr factory jobs.

---

Average manufacturings job is significantly higher than $15/hr. But you know this, you use to say $18/hr. I have tried to educate you on this but you continue to be obtuse.

We are in the 3rd quarter is inflation hitting now?

---

sure, let's do $18/hr. You can make $30/hr with benefits at Costco. You can make $25/hr easy in construction with overtime.

There are thousands of unfilled service jobs that pay more and provide better opportunity, I've also tried to educate you folks on that too, and tariffs hurt those better paying jobs to a higher degree than they provide jobs in manufacturing.

Construction projects have increased costs of 4-6% in the 3rd quarter so yes, it's happening now.

Demand does dictate pricing, except when you manipulate the market to artificially increase pricing. Tariffs do that plus drive down demand. Pretty neat trick.

---

The average service job in the USA is between $14 and $22 per hour. Average manufacturing job in the USA is $28 per hour.

Where did you get the inflation cost for construction. Significantly higher than the average US cost increase

---

because I work in the industry

---

Well July is at 1.1% for USA construction . Not 4 to 6%.

---

Ok man. 25 years in the Construction industry, I get tariff related price increases weekly, I know w t f I'm talking about.

---

It was a simple search. I am sure you have never made up any numbers on the interwebs, so I believe you are seeing a higher increase.

If I am a supplier of yours, I am asking you for a price increase. You are very clear that the tariffs will go directly to the consumer.

---

yeah, I'm not going to absorb it and neither is anyone else. Every single commodity based and electronics based product that goes into a construction project continues to increase costs monthly at a higher rate than inflation

---

What do you mean "not absorb it"? You have been very consistent that prices will go up due to the tariffs. Does this mean in real life you are not accepting the price increases?

---

So what exactly are you saying?

That magically Trump tariffs have not and will not increase prices, despite having many decades of tariff examples domestically and internationally the illustrate clearly that tariffs do exactly that?

---

It is simple. What I am saying is that price is not driven by cost. The market drives price. Tariffs increase cost.

Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins.

---

Says who? You? LOL

Where is the evidence to support this novel theory of yours?

You act like Trump discovered tariffs and the world hasn't ever seen them before and we all just need to sit around guessing what's going to happen.

There are many decades of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Go find some good examples of countries levying significant tariffs and prices NOT increasing. Let's start there.

---

Let me start with the last couple of months for me.

This week I was at a client outside Chicago that had me in to reduce the cost on hydraulic equipment so they do not have to raise prices. Lots of this equipment is used in construction.

The week before, I was in Italy working for a client, reducing their costs so they can keep their margins without increasing prices.

The week before in Sweden doing the same thing for a similar company.

Since May I have worked with two clients in Canada doing the same thing.

I consider these good companies as they are keeping their prices the same.

Not sure it will click with you, but 90% of all CEOs believe they are in the top 10% of all CEOs. Lots of lazy companies.

---

All anecdotal, tiny sample size stuff.

No offense man but I'm not building sound US economic policy around your personal experience and observations running a small business.

It's a great big world out there, with a ton of examples of tariff policies and results over the last 80-100 years, domestically and abroad.

There is a mountain of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Show us the empirical evidence of significant tariffs NOT consequentially impacting consumer prices.

---

As expected. You ask for evidence to support my, what did you call it, "novel theory", and I do but of course that is not enough.

I have not once said prices will not rise, I said good companies are working to reduce costs so they do not have to raise prices. Lazy companies just want to pass on costs.

---

What evidence did you provide, exactly? You talked about your personal experience. That's not evidence, that's anecdote.

I'm talking about "yeah back in '84 we hit China with 40% tariffs on steel but US steel prices didn't budge. Something similar happened to Canadian lumber in '88". Or talk about Smoot-Hawley or 1800's protectionism or anything that's macro and researched. Not some hyper-micro example from your small business.

---

He lives in Private Equity Fantasy World where you can cut costs forever and it definitely won't eventually implode your business.

And of course it's MAGA scripture that a President insisting that companies eat the cost increases "or else" is a totally normal way to run a first world country.

---

Three of the companies are publicly traded. One is a single person owner and yes one is a PE. You continue to embarrass yourself and my university. If you are an NC State graduate.

---

I wasn't referring to the companies you're consulting for. I was referring to your cartoonish PE mentality that "good" companies can always just keep cutting costs somehow, and would never have to pass tariff cost increases on to their customers.

Anyhoo, I'd say the same about your nonsense, but it's clearly not possible for PE vultures *or* MAGA clowns to be embarrassed.

And feel free to donate to 1Pack anytime.

---

Right. If that was true, tariffs wouldn't have driven costs up and/or bludgeoned the broader economy due to their cooling effect on international trade basically every time we and other countries have implemented them in the last 150 years.

Yes, companies can try to cut costs in response to maintain their margins. But broadly, in 150 years of practice, companies that are able to do this sufficiently to not impact consumer prices AND aren't cutting costs in ways that harm the economy via job cuts are corner cases.

Again, tariffs aren't new. We have 150 years of good empirical evidence of their effect on the economy.

---

Starting to see parts of this Novel Theory, even confirming it has happened for over 100 years. It is what good companies do. Protect their customers as much as they can.

A couple things, can you share where you got the company cost cutting data to support your comment of only a few corner cases in the past?

Also, I know tariffs are not new, but comparing today to what happened 80 to 100 years ago is a stretch. End result may be the same but there is infinitely more information available to companies and consumers. Information moves so much more quickly. Also most companies today have va/ve programs, ci programs. Etc. so not new to reduce cost as compared to 80 years ago.

---

This "good companies protect their customers" nonsense doesn't survive even the most basic scrutiny.

First and foremost, significant tariffs around the world increase consumer prices basically uniformly. You go find evidence otherwise, you're the one saying that fairly settled economic science isn't true. Are the many thousands of companies that have historically increased prices in response to their costs going up not good companies?

Second, it makes no sense that companies are mysteriously waiting to reduce their costs or find efficiencies until when Trump levies inane tariffs and drives up their raw material or supply chain prices.

All of their and their shareholders' interests align in this regard. If there was margin to be found, they would or should have already found it.

Companies are in the business of optimizing margins - at all times , not just in tariff environments - so if it was that easy for them to go create margin it would be their fiduciary duty to have already done so for their shareholders, and also in their own financial best interests.

So why haven't these myriad companies across industries already been achieving greater efficiencies, lower costs, and higher margins?

So yes, some companies in some circumstances can cut some cost or reduce some margin to try to keep price increases as low as possible. But across decades and across industries, there is scant evidence that enough companies will be willing or able to cut enough of their costs and margins to preserve pricing.

jkpackfan said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

AOC crossed a legally actionable line….only question is, did she write a check she can't cover?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/aoc-mocks-maga-world-over-epstein-files-infighting-who-would-have-thought-that-electing-a-ra-ist-would-have-complicated-the-release/ar-AA1IrbV5?ocid=BingNewsVerp

---

I hope he sues the **** out of her.

---

George Steffy and ABC discovered that the Jean Carroll matter was no shield, so I'd be curious as to her lawyer's defense strategy.

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

El Lobo Loco said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Sweet, beautiful tariffs, helping Johnny Paycheck, and NASCAR!

"In the latest blow, the 100-year-old clock manufacturer that produced the iconic NASCAR Martinsville grandfather clock announced that it'd be shutting down - in part due to Trump's tariffs. "A convergence of market influences beyond our control brought us to this point," President and CEO Howard J. Miller said in an official statement.

Since 1964, Martinsville Speedway - one of the oldest tracks still featured on the NASCAR schedule - has gifted the Cup Series race winner a grandfather clock shortly after they coasted down victory lane. Fred Lorenzen first received the unique accolade that year, during which he led a whopping 980 out of 1,000 total laps over the two races held at the 'paperclip.'"

We are protecting American jobs with protectionist tariffs!

Long-standing NASCAR tradition in danger due to Donald Trump's tariffs

---

Nobody needs clocks anymore. All that is on your phone.

---

They need jobs though

---

Ok, I had to come out of retirement for this one…

Hokie, you've never shown one bit of concern for the American worker. That comment (in bold) is extremely shallow and purely opportunistic. You can do better! I'm out again…

---

no, I don't think the cure for the American worker is $15/hr factory jobs.

---

Average manufacturings job is significantly higher than $15/hr. But you know this, you use to say $18/hr. I have tried to educate you on this but you continue to be obtuse.

We are in the 3rd quarter is inflation hitting now?

---

sure, let's do $18/hr. You can make $30/hr with benefits at Costco. You can make $25/hr easy in construction with overtime.

There are thousands of unfilled service jobs that pay more and provide better opportunity, I've also tried to educate you folks on that too, and tariffs hurt those better paying jobs to a higher degree than they provide jobs in manufacturing.

Construction projects have increased costs of 4-6% in the 3rd quarter so yes, it's happening now.

Demand does dictate pricing, except when you manipulate the market to artificially increase pricing. Tariffs do that plus drive down demand. Pretty neat trick.

---

The average service job in the USA is between $14 and $22 per hour. Average manufacturing job in the USA is $28 per hour.

Where did you get the inflation cost for construction. Significantly higher than the average US cost increase

---

because I work in the industry

---

Well July is at 1.1% for USA construction . Not 4 to 6%.

---

Ok man. 25 years in the Construction industry, I get tariff related price increases weekly, I know w t f I'm talking about.

---

It was a simple search. I am sure you have never made up any numbers on the interwebs, so I believe you are seeing a higher increase.

If I am a supplier of yours, I am asking you for a price increase. You are very clear that the tariffs will go directly to the consumer.

---

yeah, I'm not going to absorb it and neither is anyone else. Every single commodity based and electronics based product that goes into a construction project continues to increase costs monthly at a higher rate than inflation

---

What do you mean "not absorb it"? You have been very consistent that prices will go up due to the tariffs. Does this mean in real life you are not accepting the price increases?

---

So what exactly are you saying?

That magically Trump tariffs have not and will not increase prices, despite having many decades of tariff examples domestically and internationally the illustrate clearly that tariffs do exactly that?

---

It is simple. What I am saying is that price is not driven by cost. The market drives price. Tariffs increase cost.

Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins.

---

Says who? You? LOL

Where is the evidence to support this novel theory of yours?

You act like Trump discovered tariffs and the world hasn't ever seen them before and we all just need to sit around guessing what's going to happen.

There are many decades of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Go find some good examples of countries levying significant tariffs and prices NOT increasing. Let's start there.

---

Let me start with the last couple of months for me.

This week I was at a client outside Chicago that had me in to reduce the cost on hydraulic equipment so they do not have to raise prices. Lots of this equipment is used in construction.

The week before, I was in Italy working for a client, reducing their costs so they can keep their margins without increasing prices.

The week before in Sweden doing the same thing for a similar company.

Since May I have worked with two clients in Canada doing the same thing.

I consider these good companies as they are keeping their prices the same.

Not sure it will click with you, but 90% of all CEOs believe they are in the top 10% of all CEOs. Lots of lazy companies.

---

All anecdotal, tiny sample size stuff.

No offense man but I'm not building sound US economic policy around your personal experience and observations running a small business.

It's a great big world out there, with a ton of examples of tariff policies and results over the last 80-100 years, domestically and abroad.

There is a mountain of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Show us the empirical evidence of significant tariffs NOT consequentially impacting consumer prices.

---

As expected. You ask for evidence to support my, what did you call it, "novel theory", and I do but of course that is not enough.

I have not once said prices will not rise, I said good companies are working to reduce costs so they do not have to raise prices. Lazy companies just want to pass on costs.

---

What evidence did you provide, exactly? You talked about your personal experience. That's not evidence, that's anecdote.

I'm talking about "yeah back in '84 we hit China with 40% tariffs on steel but US steel prices didn't budge. Something similar happened to Canadian lumber in '88". Or talk about Smoot-Hawley or 1800's protectionism or anything that's macro and researched. Not some hyper-micro example from your small business.

---

He lives in Private Equity Fantasy World where you can cut costs forever and it definitely won't eventually implode your business.

And of course it's MAGA scripture that a President insisting that companies eat the cost increases "or else" is a totally normal way to run a first world country.

---

Three of the companies are publicly traded. One is a single person owner and yes one is a PE. You continue to embarrass yourself and my university. If you are an NC State graduate.

---

I wasn't referring to the companies you're consulting for. I was referring to your cartoonish PE mentality that "good" companies can always just keep cutting costs somehow, and would never have to pass tariff cost increases on to their customers.

Anyhoo, I'd say the same about your nonsense, but it's clearly not possible for PE vultures *or* MAGA clowns to be embarrassed.

And feel free to donate to 1Pack anytime.

---

Right. If that was true, tariffs wouldn't have driven costs up and/or bludgeoned the broader economy due to their cooling effect on international trade basically every time we and other countries have implemented them in the last 150 years.

Yes, companies can try to cut costs in response to maintain their margins. But broadly, in 150 years of practice, companies that are able to do this sufficiently to not impact consumer prices AND aren't cutting costs in ways that harm the economy via job cuts are corner cases.

Again, tariffs aren't new. We have 150 years of good empirical evidence of their effect on the economy.

---

Starting to see parts of this Novel Theory, even confirming it has happened for over 100 years. It is what good companies do. Protect their customers as much as they can.

A couple things, can you share where you got the company cost cutting data to support your comment of only a few corner cases in the past?

Also, I know tariffs are not new, but comparing today to what happened 80 to 100 years ago is a stretch. End result may be the same but there is infinitely more information available to companies and consumers. Information moves so much more quickly. Also most companies today have va/ve programs, ci programs. Etc. so not new to reduce cost as compared to 80 years ago.

---

This "good companies protect their customers" nonsense doesn't survive even the most basic scrutiny.

First and foremost, significant tariffs around the world increase consumer prices basically uniformly. You go find evidence otherwise, you're the one saying that fairly settled economic science isn't true. Are the many thousands of companies that have historically increased prices in response to their costs going up not good companies?

Second, it makes no sense that companies are mysteriously waiting to reduce their costs or find efficiencies until when Trump levies inane tariffs and drives up their raw material or supply chain prices.

All of their and their shareholders' interests align in this regard. If there was margin to be found, they would or should have already found it.

Companies are in the business of optimizing margins - at all times , not just in tariff environments - so if it was that easy for them to go create margin it would be their fiduciary duty to have already done so for their shareholders, and also in their own financial best interests.

So why haven't these myriad companies across industries already been achieving greater efficiencies, lower costs, and higher margins?

So yes, some companies in some circumstances can cut some cost or reduce some margin to try to keep price increases as low as possible. But across decades and across industries, there is scant evidence that enough companies will be willing or able to cut enough of their costs and margins to preserve pricing.

---

I have addressed this numerous times, companies are lazy.

I assume by your response that there is absolutely no waste in your company because you have optimized margins and there are no more cost cutting to improve anymore. I know this is not true.

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

El Lobo Loco said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Sweet, beautiful tariffs, helping Johnny Paycheck, and NASCAR!

"In the latest blow, the 100-year-old clock manufacturer that produced the iconic NASCAR Martinsville grandfather clock announced that it'd be shutting down - in part due to Trump's tariffs. "A convergence of market influences beyond our control brought us to this point," President and CEO Howard J. Miller said in an official statement.

Since 1964, Martinsville Speedway - one of the oldest tracks still featured on the NASCAR schedule - has gifted the Cup Series race winner a grandfather clock shortly after they coasted down victory lane. Fred Lorenzen first received the unique accolade that year, during which he led a whopping 980 out of 1,000 total laps over the two races held at the 'paperclip.'"

We are protecting American jobs with protectionist tariffs!

Long-standing NASCAR tradition in danger due to Donald Trump's tariffs

---

Nobody needs clocks anymore. All that is on your phone.

---

They need jobs though

---

Ok, I had to come out of retirement for this one…

Hokie, you've never shown one bit of concern for the American worker. That comment (in bold) is extremely shallow and purely opportunistic. You can do better! I'm out again…

---

no, I don't think the cure for the American worker is $15/hr factory jobs.

---

Average manufacturings job is significantly higher than $15/hr. But you know this, you use to say $18/hr. I have tried to educate you on this but you continue to be obtuse.

We are in the 3rd quarter is inflation hitting now?

---

sure, let's do $18/hr. You can make $30/hr with benefits at Costco. You can make $25/hr easy in construction with overtime.

There are thousands of unfilled service jobs that pay more and provide better opportunity, I've also tried to educate you folks on that too, and tariffs hurt those better paying jobs to a higher degree than they provide jobs in manufacturing.

Construction projects have increased costs of 4-6% in the 3rd quarter so yes, it's happening now.

Demand does dictate pricing, except when you manipulate the market to artificially increase pricing. Tariffs do that plus drive down demand. Pretty neat trick.

---

The average service job in the USA is between $14 and $22 per hour. Average manufacturing job in the USA is $28 per hour.

Where did you get the inflation cost for construction. Significantly higher than the average US cost increase

---

because I work in the industry

---

Well July is at 1.1% for USA construction . Not 4 to 6%.

---

Ok man. 25 years in the Construction industry, I get tariff related price increases weekly, I know w t f I'm talking about.

---

It was a simple search. I am sure you have never made up any numbers on the interwebs, so I believe you are seeing a higher increase.

If I am a supplier of yours, I am asking you for a price increase. You are very clear that the tariffs will go directly to the consumer.

---

yeah, I'm not going to absorb it and neither is anyone else. Every single commodity based and electronics based product that goes into a construction project continues to increase costs monthly at a higher rate than inflation

---

What do you mean "not absorb it"? You have been very consistent that prices will go up due to the tariffs. Does this mean in real life you are not accepting the price increases?

---

So what exactly are you saying?

That magically Trump tariffs have not and will not increase prices, despite having many decades of tariff examples domestically and internationally the illustrate clearly that tariffs do exactly that?

---

It is simple. What I am saying is that price is not driven by cost. The market drives price. Tariffs increase cost.

Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins.

---

Says who? You? LOL

Where is the evidence to support this novel theory of yours?

You act like Trump discovered tariffs and the world hasn't ever seen them before and we all just need to sit around guessing what's going to happen.

There are many decades of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Go find some good examples of countries levying significant tariffs and prices NOT increasing. Let's start there.

---

Let me start with the last couple of months for me.

This week I was at a client outside Chicago that had me in to reduce the cost on hydraulic equipment so they do not have to raise prices. Lots of this equipment is used in construction.

The week before, I was in Italy working for a client, reducing their costs so they can keep their margins without increasing prices.

The week before in Sweden doing the same thing for a similar company.

Since May I have worked with two clients in Canada doing the same thing.

I consider these good companies as they are keeping their prices the same.

Not sure it will click with you, but 90% of all CEOs believe they are in the top 10% of all CEOs. Lots of lazy companies.

---

All anecdotal, tiny sample size stuff.

No offense man but I'm not building sound US economic policy around your personal experience and observations running a small business.

It's a great big world out there, with a ton of examples of tariff policies and results over the last 80-100 years, domestically and abroad.

There is a mountain of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Show us the empirical evidence of significant tariffs NOT consequentially impacting consumer prices.

---

As expected. You ask for evidence to support my, what did you call it, "novel theory", and I do but of course that is not enough.

I have not once said prices will not rise, I said good companies are working to reduce costs so they do not have to raise prices. Lazy companies just want to pass on costs.

---

What evidence did you provide, exactly? You talked about your personal experience. That's not evidence, that's anecdote.

I'm talking about "yeah back in '84 we hit China with 40% tariffs on steel but US steel prices didn't budge. Something similar happened to Canadian lumber in '88". Or talk about Smoot-Hawley or 1800's protectionism or anything that's macro and researched. Not some hyper-micro example from your small business.

---

He lives in Private Equity Fantasy World where you can cut costs forever and it definitely won't eventually implode your business.

And of course it's MAGA scripture that a President insisting that companies eat the cost increases "or else" is a totally normal way to run a first world country.

---

Three of the companies are publicly traded. One is a single person owner and yes one is a PE. You continue to embarrass yourself and my university. If you are an NC State graduate.

---

I wasn't referring to the companies you're consulting for. I was referring to your cartoonish PE mentality that "good" companies can always just keep cutting costs somehow, and would never have to pass tariff cost increases on to their customers.

Anyhoo, I'd say the same about your nonsense, but it's clearly not possible for PE vultures *or* MAGA clowns to be embarrassed.

And feel free to donate to 1Pack anytime.

---

Right. If that was true, tariffs wouldn't have driven costs up and/or bludgeoned the broader economy due to their cooling effect on international trade basically every time we and other countries have implemented them in the last 150 years.

Yes, companies can try to cut costs in response to maintain their margins. But broadly, in 150 years of practice, companies that are able to do this sufficiently to not impact consumer prices AND aren't cutting costs in ways that harm the economy via job cuts are corner cases.

Again, tariffs aren't new. We have 150 years of good empirical evidence of their effect on the economy.

---

Starting to see parts of this Novel Theory, even confirming it has happened for over 100 years. It is what good companies do. Protect their customers as much as they can.

A couple things, can you share where you got the company cost cutting data to support your comment of only a few corner cases in the past?

Also, I know tariffs are not new, but comparing today to what happened 80 to 100 years ago is a stretch. End result may be the same but there is infinitely more information available to companies and consumers. Information moves so much more quickly. Also most companies today have va/ve programs, ci programs. Etc. so not new to reduce cost as compared to 80 years ago.

---

This "good companies protect their customers" nonsense doesn't survive even the most basic scrutiny.

First and foremost, significant tariffs around the world increase consumer prices basically uniformly. You go find evidence otherwise, you're the one saying that fairly settled economic science isn't true. Are the many thousands of companies that have historically increased prices in response to their costs going up not good companies?

Second, it makes no sense that companies are mysteriously waiting to reduce their costs or find efficiencies until when Trump levies inane tariffs and drives up their raw material or supply chain prices.

All of their and their shareholders' interests align in this regard. If there was margin to be found, they would or should have already found it.

Companies are in the business of optimizing margins - at all times , not just in tariff environments - so if it was that easy for them to go create margin it would be their fiduciary duty to have already done so for their shareholders, and also in their own financial best interests.

So why haven't these myriad companies across industries already been achieving greater efficiencies, lower costs, and higher margins?

So yes, some companies in some circumstances can cut some cost or reduce some margin to try to keep price increases as low as possible. But across decades and across industries, there is scant evidence that enough companies will be willing or able to cut enough of their costs and margins to preserve pricing.

---

I have addressed this numerous times, companies are lazy.

ETA: Companies also do not know how to.

I assume by your response that there is absolutely no waste in your company because you have optimized margins and there are no more cost cutting to improve anymore. I know this is not true.

---

Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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El Lobo Loco said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Sweet, beautiful tariffs, helping Johnny Paycheck, and NASCAR!

"In the latest blow, the 100-year-old clock manufacturer that produced the iconic NASCAR Martinsville grandfather clock announced that it'd be shutting down - in part due to Trump's tariffs. "A convergence of market influences beyond our control brought us to this point," President and CEO Howard J. Miller said in an official statement.

Since 1964, Martinsville Speedway - one of the oldest tracks still featured on the NASCAR schedule - has gifted the Cup Series race winner a grandfather clock shortly after they coasted down victory lane. Fred Lorenzen first received the unique accolade that year, during which he led a whopping 980 out of 1,000 total laps over the two races held at the 'paperclip.'"

We are protecting American jobs with protectionist tariffs!

Long-standing NASCAR tradition in danger due to Donald Trump's tariffs

---

Nobody needs clocks anymore. All that is on your phone.

---

They need jobs though

---

Ok, I had to come out of retirement for this one…

Hokie, you've never shown one bit of concern for the American worker. That comment (in bold) is extremely shallow and purely opportunistic. You can do better! I'm out again…

---

no, I don't think the cure for the American worker is $15/hr factory jobs.

---

Average manufacturings job is significantly higher than $15/hr. But you know this, you use to say $18/hr. I have tried to educate you on this but you continue to be obtuse.

We are in the 3rd quarter is inflation hitting now?

---

sure, let's do $18/hr. You can make $30/hr with benefits at Costco. You can make $25/hr easy in construction with overtime.

There are thousands of unfilled service jobs that pay more and provide better opportunity, I've also tried to educate you folks on that too, and tariffs hurt those better paying jobs to a higher degree than they provide jobs in manufacturing.

Construction projects have increased costs of 4-6% in the 3rd quarter so yes, it's happening now.

Demand does dictate pricing, except when you manipulate the market to artificially increase pricing. Tariffs do that plus drive down demand. Pretty neat trick.

---

The average service job in the USA is between $14 and $22 per hour. Average manufacturing job in the USA is $28 per hour.

Where did you get the inflation cost for construction. Significantly higher than the average US cost increase

---

because I work in the industry

---

Well July is at 1.1% for USA construction . Not 4 to 6%.

---

Ok man. 25 years in the Construction industry, I get tariff related price increases weekly, I know w t f I'm talking about.

---

It was a simple search. I am sure you have never made up any numbers on the interwebs, so I believe you are seeing a higher increase.

If I am a supplier of yours, I am asking you for a price increase. You are very clear that the tariffs will go directly to the consumer.

---

yeah, I'm not going to absorb it and neither is anyone else. Every single commodity based and electronics based product that goes into a construction project continues to increase costs monthly at a higher rate than inflation

---

What do you mean "not absorb it"? You have been very consistent that prices will go up due to the tariffs. Does this mean in real life you are not accepting the price increases?

---

So what exactly are you saying?

That magically Trump tariffs have not and will not increase prices, despite having many decades of tariff examples domestically and internationally the illustrate clearly that tariffs do exactly that?

---

It is simple. What I am saying is that price is not driven by cost. The market drives price. Tariffs increase cost.

Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins.

---

Says who? You? LOL

Where is the evidence to support this novel theory of yours?

You act like Trump discovered tariffs and the world hasn't ever seen them before and we all just need to sit around guessing what's going to happen.

There are many decades of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Go find some good examples of countries levying significant tariffs and prices NOT increasing. Let's start there.

---

Let me start with the last couple of months for me.

This week I was at a client outside Chicago that had me in to reduce the cost on hydraulic equipment so they do not have to raise prices. Lots of this equipment is used in construction.

The week before, I was in Italy working for a client, reducing their costs so they can keep their margins without increasing prices.

The week before in Sweden doing the same thing for a similar company.

Since May I have worked with two clients in Canada doing the same thing.

I consider these good companies as they are keeping their prices the same.

Not sure it will click with you, but 90% of all CEOs believe they are in the top 10% of all CEOs. Lots of lazy companies.

---

All anecdotal, tiny sample size stuff.

No offense man but I'm not building sound US economic policy around your personal experience and observations running a small business.

It's a great big world out there, with a ton of examples of tariff policies and results over the last 80-100 years, domestically and abroad.

There is a mountain of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Show us the empirical evidence of significant tariffs NOT consequentially impacting consumer prices.

---

As expected. You ask for evidence to support my, what did you call it, "novel theory", and I do but of course that is not enough.

I have not once said prices will not rise, I said good companies are working to reduce costs so they do not have to raise prices. Lazy companies just want to pass on costs.

---

What evidence did you provide, exactly? You talked about your personal experience. That's not evidence, that's anecdote.

I'm talking about "yeah back in '84 we hit China with 40% tariffs on steel but US steel prices didn't budge. Something similar happened to Canadian lumber in '88". Or talk about Smoot-Hawley or 1800's protectionism or anything that's macro and researched. Not some hyper-micro example from your small business.

---

He lives in Private Equity Fantasy World where you can cut costs forever and it definitely won't eventually implode your business.

And of course it's MAGA scripture that a President insisting that companies eat the cost increases "or else" is a totally normal way to run a first world country.

---

Three of the companies are publicly traded. One is a single person owner and yes one is a PE. You continue to embarrass yourself and my university. If you are an NC State graduate.

---

I wasn't referring to the companies you're consulting for. I was referring to your cartoonish PE mentality that "good" companies can always just keep cutting costs somehow, and would never have to pass tariff cost increases on to their customers.

Anyhoo, I'd say the same about your nonsense, but it's clearly not possible for PE vultures *or* MAGA clowns to be embarrassed.

And feel free to donate to 1Pack anytime.

---

Right. If that was true, tariffs wouldn't have driven costs up and/or bludgeoned the broader economy due to their cooling effect on international trade basically every time we and other countries have implemented them in the last 150 years.

Yes, companies can try to cut costs in response to maintain their margins. But broadly, in 150 years of practice, companies that are able to do this sufficiently to not impact consumer prices AND aren't cutting costs in ways that harm the economy via job cuts are corner cases.

Again, tariffs aren't new. We have 150 years of good empirical evidence of their effect on the economy.

---

Starting to see parts of this Novel Theory, even confirming it has happened for over 100 years. It is what good companies do. Protect their customers as much as they can.

A couple things, can you share where you got the company cost cutting data to support your comment of only a few corner cases in the past?

Also, I know tariffs are not new, but comparing today to what happened 80 to 100 years ago is a stretch. End result may be the same but there is infinitely more information available to companies and consumers. Information moves so much more quickly. Also most companies today have va/ve programs, ci programs. Etc. so not new to reduce cost as compared to 80 years ago.

---

This "good companies protect their customers" nonsense doesn't survive even the most basic scrutiny.

First and foremost, significant tariffs around the world increase consumer prices basically uniformly. You go find evidence otherwise, you're the one saying that fairly settled economic science isn't true. Are the many thousands of companies that have historically increased prices in response to their costs going up not good companies?

Second, it makes no sense that companies are mysteriously waiting to reduce their costs or find efficiencies until when Trump levies inane tariffs and drives up their raw material or supply chain prices.

All of their and their shareholders' interests align in this regard. If there was margin to be found, they would or should have already found it.

Companies are in the business of optimizing margins - at all times , not just in tariff environments - so if it was that easy for them to go create margin it would be their fiduciary duty to have already done so for their shareholders, and also in their own financial best interests.

So why haven't these myriad companies across industries already been achieving greater efficiencies, lower costs, and higher margins?

So yes, some companies in some circumstances can cut some cost or reduce some margin to try to keep price increases as low as possible. But across decades and across industries, there is scant evidence that enough companies will be willing or able to cut enough of their costs and margins to preserve pricing.

---

I have addressed this numerous times, companies are lazy.

I assume by your response that there is absolutely no waste in your company because you have optimized margins and there are no more cost cutting to improve anymore. I know this is not true.

---

Sounds like your brilliant analysis is backwards. It's the "good" companies who already have optimized margins who will be crushed by tariffs and have to pass costs onto their customers.

I suspect you have a skewed view of the population of "lazy" companies, since they're the only ones who would call you.

SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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El Lobo Loco said:

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hokiewolf said:

---

Sweet, beautiful tariffs, helping Johnny Paycheck, and NASCAR!

"In the latest blow, the 100-year-old clock manufacturer that produced the iconic NASCAR Martinsville grandfather clock announced that it'd be shutting down - in part due to Trump's tariffs. "A convergence of market influences beyond our control brought us to this point," President and CEO Howard J. Miller said in an official statement.

Since 1964, Martinsville Speedway - one of the oldest tracks still featured on the NASCAR schedule - has gifted the Cup Series race winner a grandfather clock shortly after they coasted down victory lane. Fred Lorenzen first received the unique accolade that year, during which he led a whopping 980 out of 1,000 total laps over the two races held at the 'paperclip.'"

We are protecting American jobs with protectionist tariffs!

Long-standing NASCAR tradition in danger due to Donald Trump's tariffs

---

Nobody needs clocks anymore. All that is on your phone.

---

They need jobs though

---

Ok, I had to come out of retirement for this one…

Hokie, you've never shown one bit of concern for the American worker. That comment (in bold) is extremely shallow and purely opportunistic. You can do better! I'm out again…

---

no, I don't think the cure for the American worker is $15/hr factory jobs.

---

Average manufacturings job is significantly higher than $15/hr. But you know this, you use to say $18/hr. I have tried to educate you on this but you continue to be obtuse.

We are in the 3rd quarter is inflation hitting now?

---

sure, let's do $18/hr. You can make $30/hr with benefits at Costco. You can make $25/hr easy in construction with overtime.

There are thousands of unfilled service jobs that pay more and provide better opportunity, I've also tried to educate you folks on that too, and tariffs hurt those better paying jobs to a higher degree than they provide jobs in manufacturing.

Construction projects have increased costs of 4-6% in the 3rd quarter so yes, it's happening now.

Demand does dictate pricing, except when you manipulate the market to artificially increase pricing. Tariffs do that plus drive down demand. Pretty neat trick.

---

The average service job in the USA is between $14 and $22 per hour. Average manufacturing job in the USA is $28 per hour.

Where did you get the inflation cost for construction. Significantly higher than the average US cost increase

---

because I work in the industry

---

Well July is at 1.1% for USA construction . Not 4 to 6%.

---

Ok man. 25 years in the Construction industry, I get tariff related price increases weekly, I know w t f I'm talking about.

---

It was a simple search. I am sure you have never made up any numbers on the interwebs, so I believe you are seeing a higher increase.

If I am a supplier of yours, I am asking you for a price increase. You are very clear that the tariffs will go directly to the consumer.

---

yeah, I'm not going to absorb it and neither is anyone else. Every single commodity based and electronics based product that goes into a construction project continues to increase costs monthly at a higher rate than inflation

---

What do you mean "not absorb it"? You have been very consistent that prices will go up due to the tariffs. Does this mean in real life you are not accepting the price increases?

---

So what exactly are you saying?

That magically Trump tariffs have not and will not increase prices, despite having many decades of tariff examples domestically and internationally the illustrate clearly that tariffs do exactly that?

---

It is simple. What I am saying is that price is not driven by cost. The market drives price. Tariffs increase cost.

Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins.

---

Says who? You? LOL

Where is the evidence to support this novel theory of yours?

You act like Trump discovered tariffs and the world hasn't ever seen them before and we all just need to sit around guessing what's going to happen.

There are many decades of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Go find some good examples of countries levying significant tariffs and prices NOT increasing. Let's start there.

---

Let me start with the last couple of months for me.

This week I was at a client outside Chicago that had me in to reduce the cost on hydraulic equipment so they do not have to raise prices. Lots of this equipment is used in construction.

The week before, I was in Italy working for a client, reducing their costs so they can keep their margins without increasing prices.

The week before in Sweden doing the same thing for a similar company.

Since May I have worked with two clients in Canada doing the same thing.

I consider these good companies as they are keeping their prices the same.

Not sure it will click with you, but 90% of all CEOs believe they are in the top 10% of all CEOs. Lots of lazy companies.

---

All anecdotal, tiny sample size stuff.

No offense man but I'm not building sound US economic policy around your personal experience and observations running a small business.

It's a great big world out there, with a ton of examples of tariff policies and results over the last 80-100 years, domestically and abroad.

There is a mountain of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Show us the empirical evidence of significant tariffs NOT consequentially impacting consumer prices.

---

As expected. You ask for evidence to support my, what did you call it, "novel theory", and I do but of course that is not enough.

I have not once said prices will not rise, I said good companies are working to reduce costs so they do not have to raise prices. Lazy companies just want to pass on costs.

---

What evidence did you provide, exactly? You talked about your personal experience. That's not evidence, that's anecdote.

I'm talking about "yeah back in '84 we hit China with 40% tariffs on steel but US steel prices didn't budge. Something similar happened to Canadian lumber in '88". Or talk about Smoot-Hawley or 1800's protectionism or anything that's macro and researched. Not some hyper-micro example from your small business.

---

He lives in Private Equity Fantasy World where you can cut costs forever and it definitely won't eventually implode your business.

And of course it's MAGA scripture that a President insisting that companies eat the cost increases "or else" is a totally normal way to run a first world country.

---

Three of the companies are publicly traded. One is a single person owner and yes one is a PE. You continue to embarrass yourself and my university. If you are an NC State graduate.

---

I wasn't referring to the companies you're consulting for. I was referring to your cartoonish PE mentality that "good" companies can always just keep cutting costs somehow, and would never have to pass tariff cost increases on to their customers.

Anyhoo, I'd say the same about your nonsense, but it's clearly not possible for PE vultures *or* MAGA clowns to be embarrassed.

And feel free to donate to 1Pack anytime.

---

Right. If that was true, tariffs wouldn't have driven costs up and/or bludgeoned the broader economy due to their cooling effect on international trade basically every time we and other countries have implemented them in the last 150 years.

Yes, companies can try to cut costs in response to maintain their margins. But broadly, in 150 years of practice, companies that are able to do this sufficiently to not impact consumer prices AND aren't cutting costs in ways that harm the economy via job cuts are corner cases.

Again, tariffs aren't new. We have 150 years of good empirical evidence of their effect on the economy.

---

Starting to see parts of this Novel Theory, even confirming it has happened for over 100 years. It is what good companies do. Protect their customers as much as they can.

A couple things, can you share where you got the company cost cutting data to support your comment of only a few corner cases in the past?

Also, I know tariffs are not new, but comparing today to what happened 80 to 100 years ago is a stretch. End result may be the same but there is infinitely more information available to companies and consumers. Information moves so much more quickly. Also most companies today have va/ve programs, ci programs. Etc. so not new to reduce cost as compared to 80 years ago.

---

This "good companies protect their customers" nonsense doesn't survive even the most basic scrutiny.

First and foremost, significant tariffs around the world increase consumer prices basically uniformly. You go find evidence otherwise, you're the one saying that fairly settled economic science isn't true. Are the many thousands of companies that have historically increased prices in response to their costs going up not good companies?

Second, it makes no sense that companies are mysteriously waiting to reduce their costs or find efficiencies until when Trump levies inane tariffs and drives up their raw material or supply chain prices.

All of their and their shareholders' interests align in this regard. If there was margin to be found, they would or should have already found it.

Companies are in the business of optimizing margins - at all times , not just in tariff environments - so if it was that easy for them to go create margin it would be their fiduciary duty to have already done so for their shareholders, and also in their own financial best interests.

So why haven't these myriad companies across industries already been achieving greater efficiencies, lower costs, and higher margins?

So yes, some companies in some circumstances can cut some cost or reduce some margin to try to keep price increases as low as possible. But across decades and across industries, there is scant evidence that enough companies will be willing or able to cut enough of their costs and margins to preserve pricing.

---

I have addressed this numerous times, companies are lazy.

I assume by your response that there is absolutely no waste in your company because you have optimized margins and there are no more cost cutting to improve anymore. I know this is not true.

---

Sounds like your brilliant analysis is backwards. It's the "good" companies who already have optimized margins who will be crushed by tariffs and have to pass costs onto their customers.

I suspect you have a skewed view of the population of "lazy" companies, since they're the only ones who would call you.

---

No company has eliminated all the waste they have. About 90% of all activities a company performs to satisfy their customer is waste.

Best companies in the world run at 70%.

Now maybe the companies you and civ work at have absolutely no waste and all activities you perform are value added. But I know this is not the case.

Cthepack said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Cthepack said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

El Lobo Loco said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Sweet, beautiful tariffs, helping Johnny Paycheck, and NASCAR!

"In the latest blow, the 100-year-old clock manufacturer that produced the iconic NASCAR Martinsville grandfather clock announced that it'd be shutting down - in part due to Trump's tariffs. "A convergence of market influences beyond our control brought us to this point," President and CEO Howard J. Miller said in an official statement.

Since 1964, Martinsville Speedway - one of the oldest tracks still featured on the NASCAR schedule - has gifted the Cup Series race winner a grandfather clock shortly after they coasted down victory lane. Fred Lorenzen first received the unique accolade that year, during which he led a whopping 980 out of 1,000 total laps over the two races held at the 'paperclip.'"

We are protecting American jobs with protectionist tariffs!

Long-standing NASCAR tradition in danger due to Donald Trump's tariffs

---

Nobody needs clocks anymore. All that is on your phone.

---

They need jobs though

---

Ok, I had to come out of retirement for this one…

Hokie, you've never shown one bit of concern for the American worker. That comment (in bold) is extremely shallow and purely opportunistic. You can do better! I'm out again…

---

no, I don't think the cure for the American worker is $15/hr factory jobs.

---

Average manufacturings job is significantly higher than $15/hr. But you know this, you use to say $18/hr. I have tried to educate you on this but you continue to be obtuse.

We are in the 3rd quarter is inflation hitting now?

---

sure, let's do $18/hr. You can make $30/hr with benefits at Costco. You can make $25/hr easy in construction with overtime.

There are thousands of unfilled service jobs that pay more and provide better opportunity, I've also tried to educate you folks on that too, and tariffs hurt those better paying jobs to a higher degree than they provide jobs in manufacturing.

Construction projects have increased costs of 4-6% in the 3rd quarter so yes, it's happening now.

Demand does dictate pricing, except when you manipulate the market to artificially increase pricing. Tariffs do that plus drive down demand. Pretty neat trick.

---

The average service job in the USA is between $14 and $22 per hour. Average manufacturing job in the USA is $28 per hour.

Where did you get the inflation cost for construction. Significantly higher than the average US cost increase

---

because I work in the industry

---

Well July is at 1.1% for USA construction . Not 4 to 6%.

---

Ok man. 25 years in the Construction industry, I get tariff related price increases weekly, I know w t f I'm talking about.

---

It was a simple search. I am sure you have never made up any numbers on the interwebs, so I believe you are seeing a higher increase.

If I am a supplier of yours, I am asking you for a price increase. You are very clear that the tariffs will go directly to the consumer.

---

yeah, I'm not going to absorb it and neither is anyone else. Every single commodity based and electronics based product that goes into a construction project continues to increase costs monthly at a higher rate than inflation

---

What do you mean "not absorb it"? You have been very consistent that prices will go up due to the tariffs. Does this mean in real life you are not accepting the price increases?

---

So what exactly are you saying?

That magically Trump tariffs have not and will not increase prices, despite having many decades of tariff examples domestically and internationally the illustrate clearly that tariffs do exactly that?

---

It is simple. What I am saying is that price is not driven by cost. The market drives price. Tariffs increase cost.

Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins.

---

Says who? You? LOL

Where is the evidence to support this novel theory of yours?

You act like Trump discovered tariffs and the world hasn't ever seen them before and we all just need to sit around guessing what's going to happen.

There are many decades of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Go find some good examples of countries levying significant tariffs and prices NOT increasing. Let's start there.

---

Let me start with the last couple of months for me.

This week I was at a client outside Chicago that had me in to reduce the cost on hydraulic equipment so they do not have to raise prices. Lots of this equipment is used in construction.

The week before, I was in Italy working for a client, reducing their costs so they can keep their margins without increasing prices.

The week before in Sweden doing the same thing for a similar company.

Since May I have worked with two clients in Canada doing the same thing.

I consider these good companies as they are keeping their prices the same.

Not sure it will click with you, but 90% of all CEOs believe they are in the top 10% of all CEOs. Lots of lazy companies.

---

All anecdotal, tiny sample size stuff.

No offense man but I'm not building sound US economic policy around your personal experience and observations running a small business.

It's a great big world out there, with a ton of examples of tariff policies and results over the last 80-100 years, domestically and abroad.

There is a mountain of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Show us the empirical evidence of significant tariffs NOT consequentially impacting consumer prices.

---

As expected. You ask for evidence to support my, what did you call it, "novel theory", and I do but of course that is not enough.

I have not once said prices will not rise, I said good companies are working to reduce costs so they do not have to raise prices. Lazy companies just want to pass on costs.

---

What evidence did you provide, exactly? You talked about your personal experience. That's not evidence, that's anecdote.

I'm talking about "yeah back in '84 we hit China with 40% tariffs on steel but US steel prices didn't budge. Something similar happened to Canadian lumber in '88". Or talk about Smoot-Hawley or 1800's protectionism or anything that's macro and researched. Not some hyper-micro example from your small business.

---

He lives in Private Equity Fantasy World where you can cut costs forever and it definitely won't eventually implode your business.

And of course it's MAGA scripture that a President insisting that companies eat the cost increases "or else" is a totally normal way to run a first world country.

---

Three of the companies are publicly traded. One is a single person owner and yes one is a PE. You continue to embarrass yourself and my university. If you are an NC State graduate.

---

I wasn't referring to the companies you're consulting for. I was referring to your cartoonish PE mentality that "good" companies can always just keep cutting costs somehow, and would never have to pass tariff cost increases on to their customers.

Anyhoo, I'd say the same about your nonsense, but it's clearly not possible for PE vultures *or* MAGA clowns to be embarrassed.

And feel free to donate to 1Pack anytime.

---

Right. If that was true, tariffs wouldn't have driven costs up and/or bludgeoned the broader economy due to their cooling effect on international trade basically every time we and other countries have implemented them in the last 150 years.

Yes, companies can try to cut costs in response to maintain their margins. But broadly, in 150 years of practice, companies that are able to do this sufficiently to not impact consumer prices AND aren't cutting costs in ways that harm the economy via job cuts are corner cases.

Again, tariffs aren't new. We have 150 years of good empirical evidence of their effect on the economy.

---

Starting to see parts of this Novel Theory, even confirming it has happened for over 100 years. It is what good companies do. Protect their customers as much as they can.

A couple things, can you share where you got the company cost cutting data to support your comment of only a few corner cases in the past?

Also, I know tariffs are not new, but comparing today to what happened 80 to 100 years ago is a stretch. End result may be the same but there is infinitely more information available to companies and consumers. Information moves so much more quickly. Also most companies today have va/ve programs, ci programs. Etc. so not new to reduce cost as compared to 80 years ago.

---

This "good companies protect their customers" nonsense doesn't survive even the most basic scrutiny.

First and foremost, significant tariffs around the world increase consumer prices basically uniformly. You go find evidence otherwise, you're the one saying that fairly settled economic science isn't true. Are the many thousands of companies that have historically increased prices in response to their costs going up not good companies?

Second, it makes no sense that companies are mysteriously waiting to reduce their costs or find efficiencies until when Trump levies inane tariffs and drives up their raw material or supply chain prices.

All of their and their shareholders' interests align in this regard. If there was margin to be found, they would or should have already found it.

Companies are in the business of optimizing margins - at all times , not just in tariff environments - so if it was that easy for them to go create margin it would be their fiduciary duty to have already done so for their shareholders, and also in their own financial best interests.

So why haven't these myriad companies across industries already been achieving greater efficiencies, lower costs, and higher margins?

So yes, some companies in some circumstances can cut some cost or reduce some margin to try to keep price increases as low as possible. But across decades and across industries, there is scant evidence that enough companies will be willing or able to cut enough of their costs and margins to preserve pricing.

---

I have addressed this numerous times, companies are lazy.

I assume by your response that there is absolutely no waste in your company because you have optimized margins and there are no more cost cutting to improve anymore. I know this is not true.

---

Sounds like your brilliant analysis is backwards. It's the "good" companies who already have optimized margins who will be crushed by tariffs and have to pass costs onto their customers.

I suspect you have a skewed view of the population of "lazy" companies, since they're the only ones who would call you.

---

No company has eliminated all the waste they have. About 90% of all activities a company performs to satisfy their customer is waste.

Best companies in the world run at 70%.

Now maybe the companies you and civ work at have absolutely no waste and all activities you perform are value added. But I know this is not the case.

---

Lol, is that your sales pitch to these lazy companies? I guess they're too lazy to think about how ridiculous that statistic is.

My ole buddy #Sieve, I'm not picking on you, my friend. You're a good dude, just misguided.

[color=#000000][font=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

🚨🚨 BREAKING: Barack Obama is under FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION and ON THE VERGE OF BEING INDICTED for violations of The ESPIONAGE ACT and CONSPIRACY AGAINST RIGHTS related to his role in Russiagate and spying on President Trump's 2016 campaign. He has been implicated in the… pic.twitter.com/Dh4Sgxigcp

— Joshua Hall (@JoshHall2024) July 13, 2025

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Tariffs, smariffs..........
[color=#000000][font=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

BREAKING 🚨 Donald Trump said he’s looking at a bill that would ELIMINATE all Capital Gains Tax on Home Sales

THIS IS HUGE 🔥 pic.twitter.com/9ijLJhX1GP

— MAGA Voice (@MAGAVoice) July 13, 2025

[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

🚨 BREAKING: Iranian-Linked Website CROWDFUNDING a Hit on President Trump — Over $40 MILLION Raised 🚨

A man with direct ties to the Iranian government has launched a website crowdfunding the assassination of President Donald J. Trump — and it’s already raised a staggering $40… pic.twitter.com/90KiepKBxv

— Project Constitution (@ProjectConstitu) July 13, 2025

[/font][/color]

Werewolf said:

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We're watching the greatest Streisand Effect superweapon being activated by the greatest showman who has ever lived.

But you're tearing your hair out and flinging your waste.

— Patrick Gunnels (@pgunnels1) July 13, 2025

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[/ul]

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[color=#000000][font=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

All by the design!

What CNN calls a mistake by President Trump, we call the most brilliant move ever!

1200% increase in the search for Epstein??? Let's call it what it is:

A GIANT BQQM

WarCorrespodent pic.twitter.com/JJ3c9IAv9D

— Jack Straw (@JackStr42679640) July 13, 2025

[/font][/color]

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Sweet, beautiful tariffs, helping Johnny Paycheck, and NASCAR!

"In the latest blow, the 100-year-old clock manufacturer that produced the iconic NASCAR Martinsville grandfather clock announced that it'd be shutting down - in part due to Trump's tariffs. "A convergence of market influences beyond our control brought us to this point," President and CEO Howard J. Miller said in an official statement.

Since 1964, Martinsville Speedway - one of the oldest tracks still featured on the NASCAR schedule - has gifted the Cup Series race winner a grandfather clock shortly after they coasted down victory lane. Fred Lorenzen first received the unique accolade that year, during which he led a whopping 980 out of 1,000 total laps over the two races held at the 'paperclip.'"

We are protecting American jobs with protectionist tariffs!

Long-standing NASCAR tradition in danger due to Donald Trump's tariffs

---

Nobody needs clocks anymore. All that is on your phone.

---

They need jobs though

---

Ok, I had to come out of retirement for this one…

Hokie, you've never shown one bit of concern for the American worker. That comment (in bold) is extremely shallow and purely opportunistic. You can do better! I'm out again…

---

no, I don't think the cure for the American worker is $15/hr factory jobs.

---

Average manufacturings job is significantly higher than $15/hr. But you know this, you use to say $18/hr. I have tried to educate you on this but you continue to be obtuse.

We are in the 3rd quarter is inflation hitting now?

---

sure, let's do $18/hr. You can make $30/hr with benefits at Costco. You can make $25/hr easy in construction with overtime.

There are thousands of unfilled service jobs that pay more and provide better opportunity, I've also tried to educate you folks on that too, and tariffs hurt those better paying jobs to a higher degree than they provide jobs in manufacturing.

Construction projects have increased costs of 4-6% in the 3rd quarter so yes, it's happening now.

Demand does dictate pricing, except when you manipulate the market to artificially increase pricing. Tariffs do that plus drive down demand. Pretty neat trick.

---

The average service job in the USA is between $14 and $22 per hour. Average manufacturing job in the USA is $28 per hour.

Where did you get the inflation cost for construction. Significantly higher than the average US cost increase

---

because I work in the industry

---

Well July is at 1.1% for USA construction . Not 4 to 6%.

---

Ok man. 25 years in the Construction industry, I get tariff related price increases weekly, I know w t f I'm talking about.

---

It was a simple search. I am sure you have never made up any numbers on the interwebs, so I believe you are seeing a higher increase.

If I am a supplier of yours, I am asking you for a price increase. You are very clear that the tariffs will go directly to the consumer.

---

yeah, I'm not going to absorb it and neither is anyone else. Every single commodity based and electronics based product that goes into a construction project continues to increase costs monthly at a higher rate than inflation

---

What do you mean "not absorb it"? You have been very consistent that prices will go up due to the tariffs. Does this mean in real life you are not accepting the price increases?

---

So what exactly are you saying?

That magically Trump tariffs have not and will not increase prices, despite having many decades of tariff examples domestically and internationally the illustrate clearly that tariffs do exactly that?

---

It is simple. What I am saying is that price is not driven by cost. The market drives price. Tariffs increase cost.

Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins.

---

Says who? You? LOL

Where is the evidence to support this novel theory of yours?

You act like Trump discovered tariffs and the world hasn't ever seen them before and we all just need to sit around guessing what's going to happen.

There are many decades of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Go find some good examples of countries levying significant tariffs and prices NOT increasing. Let's start there.

---

Let me start with the last couple of months for me.

This week I was at a client outside Chicago that had me in to reduce the cost on hydraulic equipment so they do not have to raise prices. Lots of this equipment is used in construction.

The week before, I was in Italy working for a client, reducing their costs so they can keep their margins without increasing prices.

The week before in Sweden doing the same thing for a similar company.

Since May I have worked with two clients in Canada doing the same thing.

I consider these good companies as they are keeping their prices the same.

Not sure it will click with you, but 90% of all CEOs believe they are in the top 10% of all CEOs. Lots of lazy companies.

---

All anecdotal, tiny sample size stuff.

No offense man but I'm not building sound US economic policy around your personal experience and observations running a small business.

It's a great big world out there, with a ton of examples of tariff policies and results over the last 80-100 years, domestically and abroad.

There is a mountain of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Show us the empirical evidence of significant tariffs NOT consequentially impacting consumer prices.

---

As expected. You ask for evidence to support my, what did you call it, "novel theory", and I do but of course that is not enough.

I have not once said prices will not rise, I said good companies are working to reduce costs so they do not have to raise prices. Lazy companies just want to pass on costs.

---

What evidence did you provide, exactly? You talked about your personal experience. That's not evidence, that's anecdote.

I'm talking about "yeah back in '84 we hit China with 40% tariffs on steel but US steel prices didn't budge. Something similar happened to Canadian lumber in '88". Or talk about Smoot-Hawley or 1800's protectionism or anything that's macro and researched. Not some hyper-micro example from your small business.

---

He lives in Private Equity Fantasy World where you can cut costs forever and it definitely won't eventually implode your business.

And of course it's MAGA scripture that a President insisting that companies eat the cost increases "or else" is a totally normal way to run a first world country.

---

Three of the companies are publicly traded. One is a single person owner and yes one is a PE. You continue to embarrass yourself and my university. If you are an NC State graduate.

---

I wasn't referring to the companies you're consulting for. I was referring to your cartoonish PE mentality that "good" companies can always just keep cutting costs somehow, and would never have to pass tariff cost increases on to their customers.

Anyhoo, I'd say the same about your nonsense, but it's clearly not possible for PE vultures *or* MAGA clowns to be embarrassed.

And feel free to donate to 1Pack anytime.

---

Right. If that was true, tariffs wouldn't have driven costs up and/or bludgeoned the broader economy due to their cooling effect on international trade basically every time we and other countries have implemented them in the last 150 years.

Yes, companies can try to cut costs in response to maintain their margins. But broadly, in 150 years of practice, companies that are able to do this sufficiently to not impact consumer prices AND aren't cutting costs in ways that harm the economy via job cuts are corner cases.

Again, tariffs aren't new. We have 150 years of good empirical evidence of their effect on the economy.

---

Starting to see parts of this Novel Theory, even confirming it has happened for over 100 years. It is what good companies do. Protect their customers as much as they can.

A couple things, can you share where you got the company cost cutting data to support your comment of only a few corner cases in the past?

Also, I know tariffs are not new, but comparing today to what happened 80 to 100 years ago is a stretch. End result may be the same but there is infinitely more information available to companies and consumers. Information moves so much more quickly. Also most companies today have va/ve programs, ci programs. Etc. so not new to reduce cost as compared to 80 years ago.

---

This "good companies protect their customers" nonsense doesn't survive even the most basic scrutiny.

First and foremost, significant tariffs around the world increase consumer prices basically uniformly. You go find evidence otherwise, you're the one saying that fairly settled economic science isn't true. Are the many thousands of companies that have historically increased prices in response to their costs going up not good companies?

Second, it makes no sense that companies are mysteriously waiting to reduce their costs or find efficiencies until when Trump levies inane tariffs and drives up their raw material or supply chain prices.

All of their and their shareholders' interests align in this regard. If there was margin to be found, they would or should have already found it.

Companies are in the business of optimizing margins - at all times , not just in tariff environments - so if it was that easy for them to go create margin it would be their fiduciary duty to have already done so for their shareholders, and also in their own financial best interests.

So why haven't these myriad companies across industries already been achieving greater efficiencies, lower costs, and higher margins?

So yes, some companies in some circumstances can cut some cost or reduce some margin to try to keep price increases as low as possible. But across decades and across industries, there is scant evidence that enough companies will be willing or able to cut enough of their costs and margins to preserve pricing.

---

I have addressed this numerous times, companies are lazy.

I assume by your response that there is absolutely no waste in your company because you have optimized margins and there are no more cost cutting to improve anymore. I know this is not true.

---

Sounds like your brilliant analysis is backwards. It's the "good" companies who already have optimized margins who will be crushed by tariffs and have to pass costs onto their customers.

I suspect you have a skewed view of the population of "lazy" companies, since they're the only ones who would call you.

---

No company has eliminated all the waste they have. About 90% of all activities a company performs to satisfy their customer is waste.

Best companies in the world run at 70%.

Now maybe the companies you and civ work at have absolutely no waste and all activities you perform are value added. But I know this is not the case.

---

Lol, is that your sales pitch to these lazy companies? I guess they're too lazy to think about how ridiculous that statistic is.

---

This statistic is accurate. You again are embarrassing yourself commenting on something you obviously know nothing about.

ETA: let me help you here. Google percentage of value added activities. Let me know when you get a result higher than 10%.

Here is what I got: In most organizations, value added activities represent a small percentage of all activities, often less than 10%.

But go ahead and tell me different.

---

I certainly don't claim to be an expert in Six Sigma consultant-speak, but yeah, I've dealt with a thousand consultants and recognize the game.

Let's just say there's a lot of hand waving around the definitions of "value added" activities versus "necessary non-value added" versus "non-value added", so then applying percentages to that hand waving is silly.

It's telling that the "good" companies doing every Six Sigma thing they can still usually only achieve 15% "value added" activities by these definitions, leaving 85% still considered "pure waste"… that apparently it's not feasible to do anything about.

Which means in the real world these definitions are consultant-speak nonsense.

#Sieve, i begged you to jump , buddy!

Democrat Favorability Continue To Plummet!

The terms"woke,weak,&out of touch" have become the defining phrases for Democrats as the party's popularity continues to dwindle.Concealment of Joe Biden’s mental decline during his time in office certainly contributed to this situation pic.twitter.com/XIeDIzJlpo

— Sandy (@SD73660) July 13, 2025

Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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El Lobo Loco said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Sweet, beautiful tariffs, helping Johnny Paycheck, and NASCAR!

"In the latest blow, the 100-year-old clock manufacturer that produced the iconic NASCAR Martinsville grandfather clock announced that it'd be shutting down - in part due to Trump's tariffs. "A convergence of market influences beyond our control brought us to this point," President and CEO Howard J. Miller said in an official statement.

Since 1964, Martinsville Speedway - one of the oldest tracks still featured on the NASCAR schedule - has gifted the Cup Series race winner a grandfather clock shortly after they coasted down victory lane. Fred Lorenzen first received the unique accolade that year, during which he led a whopping 980 out of 1,000 total laps over the two races held at the 'paperclip.'"

We are protecting American jobs with protectionist tariffs!

Long-standing NASCAR tradition in danger due to Donald Trump's tariffs

---

Nobody needs clocks anymore. All that is on your phone.

---

They need jobs though

---

Ok, I had to come out of retirement for this one…

Hokie, you've never shown one bit of concern for the American worker. That comment (in bold) is extremely shallow and purely opportunistic. You can do better! I'm out again…

---

no, I don't think the cure for the American worker is $15/hr factory jobs.

---

Average manufacturings job is significantly higher than $15/hr. But you know this, you use to say $18/hr. I have tried to educate you on this but you continue to be obtuse.

We are in the 3rd quarter is inflation hitting now?

---

sure, let's do $18/hr. You can make $30/hr with benefits at Costco. You can make $25/hr easy in construction with overtime.

There are thousands of unfilled service jobs that pay more and provide better opportunity, I've also tried to educate you folks on that too, and tariffs hurt those better paying jobs to a higher degree than they provide jobs in manufacturing.

Construction projects have increased costs of 4-6% in the 3rd quarter so yes, it's happening now.

Demand does dictate pricing, except when you manipulate the market to artificially increase pricing. Tariffs do that plus drive down demand. Pretty neat trick.

---

The average service job in the USA is between $14 and $22 per hour. Average manufacturing job in the USA is $28 per hour.

Where did you get the inflation cost for construction. Significantly higher than the average US cost increase

---

because I work in the industry

---

Well July is at 1.1% for USA construction . Not 4 to 6%.

---

Ok man. 25 years in the Construction industry, I get tariff related price increases weekly, I know w t f I'm talking about.

---

It was a simple search. I am sure you have never made up any numbers on the interwebs, so I believe you are seeing a higher increase.

If I am a supplier of yours, I am asking you for a price increase. You are very clear that the tariffs will go directly to the consumer.

---

yeah, I'm not going to absorb it and neither is anyone else. Every single commodity based and electronics based product that goes into a construction project continues to increase costs monthly at a higher rate than inflation

---

What do you mean "not absorb it"? You have been very consistent that prices will go up due to the tariffs. Does this mean in real life you are not accepting the price increases?

---

So what exactly are you saying?

That magically Trump tariffs have not and will not increase prices, despite having many decades of tariff examples domestically and internationally the illustrate clearly that tariffs do exactly that?

---

It is simple. What I am saying is that price is not driven by cost. The market drives price. Tariffs increase cost.

Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins.

---

Says who? You? LOL

Where is the evidence to support this novel theory of yours?

You act like Trump discovered tariffs and the world hasn't ever seen them before and we all just need to sit around guessing what's going to happen.

There are many decades of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Go find some good examples of countries levying significant tariffs and prices NOT increasing. Let's start there.

---

Let me start with the last couple of months for me.

This week I was at a client outside Chicago that had me in to reduce the cost on hydraulic equipment so they do not have to raise prices. Lots of this equipment is used in construction.

The week before, I was in Italy working for a client, reducing their costs so they can keep their margins without increasing prices.

The week before in Sweden doing the same thing for a similar company.

Since May I have worked with two clients in Canada doing the same thing.

I consider these good companies as they are keeping their prices the same.

Not sure it will click with you, but 90% of all CEOs believe they are in the top 10% of all CEOs. Lots of lazy companies.

---

All anecdotal, tiny sample size stuff.

No offense man but I'm not building sound US economic policy around your personal experience and observations running a small business.

It's a great big world out there, with a ton of examples of tariff policies and results over the last 80-100 years, domestically and abroad.

There is a mountain of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Show us the empirical evidence of significant tariffs NOT consequentially impacting consumer prices.

---

As expected. You ask for evidence to support my, what did you call it, "novel theory", and I do but of course that is not enough.

I have not once said prices will not rise, I said good companies are working to reduce costs so they do not have to raise prices. Lazy companies just want to pass on costs.

---

What evidence did you provide, exactly? You talked about your personal experience. That's not evidence, that's anecdote.

I'm talking about "yeah back in '84 we hit China with 40% tariffs on steel but US steel prices didn't budge. Something similar happened to Canadian lumber in '88". Or talk about Smoot-Hawley or 1800's protectionism or anything that's macro and researched. Not some hyper-micro example from your small business.

---

He lives in Private Equity Fantasy World where you can cut costs forever and it definitely won't eventually implode your business.

And of course it's MAGA scripture that a President insisting that companies eat the cost increases "or else" is a totally normal way to run a first world country.

---

Three of the companies are publicly traded. One is a single person owner and yes one is a PE. You continue to embarrass yourself and my university. If you are an NC State graduate.

---

I wasn't referring to the companies you're consulting for. I was referring to your cartoonish PE mentality that "good" companies can always just keep cutting costs somehow, and would never have to pass tariff cost increases on to their customers.

Anyhoo, I'd say the same about your nonsense, but it's clearly not possible for PE vultures *or* MAGA clowns to be embarrassed.

And feel free to donate to 1Pack anytime.

---

Right. If that was true, tariffs wouldn't have driven costs up and/or bludgeoned the broader economy due to their cooling effect on international trade basically every time we and other countries have implemented them in the last 150 years.

Yes, companies can try to cut costs in response to maintain their margins. But broadly, in 150 years of practice, companies that are able to do this sufficiently to not impact consumer prices AND aren't cutting costs in ways that harm the economy via job cuts are corner cases.

Again, tariffs aren't new. We have 150 years of good empirical evidence of their effect on the economy.

---

Starting to see parts of this Novel Theory, even confirming it has happened for over 100 years. It is what good companies do. Protect their customers as much as they can.

A couple things, can you share where you got the company cost cutting data to support your comment of only a few corner cases in the past?

Also, I know tariffs are not new, but comparing today to what happened 80 to 100 years ago is a stretch. End result may be the same but there is infinitely more information available to companies and consumers. Information moves so much more quickly. Also most companies today have va/ve programs, ci programs. Etc. so not new to reduce cost as compared to 80 years ago.

---

This "good companies protect their customers" nonsense doesn't survive even the most basic scrutiny.

First and foremost, significant tariffs around the world increase consumer prices basically uniformly. You go find evidence otherwise, you're the one saying that fairly settled economic science isn't true. Are the many thousands of companies that have historically increased prices in response to their costs going up not good companies?

Second, it makes no sense that companies are mysteriously waiting to reduce their costs or find efficiencies until when Trump levies inane tariffs and drives up their raw material or supply chain prices.

All of their and their shareholders' interests align in this regard. If there was margin to be found, they would or should have already found it.

Companies are in the business of optimizing margins - at all times , not just in tariff environments - so if it was that easy for them to go create margin it would be their fiduciary duty to have already done so for their shareholders, and also in their own financial best interests.

So why haven't these myriad companies across industries already been achieving greater efficiencies, lower costs, and higher margins?

So yes, some companies in some circumstances can cut some cost or reduce some margin to try to keep price increases as low as possible. But across decades and across industries, there is scant evidence that enough companies will be willing or able to cut enough of their costs and margins to preserve pricing.

---

I have addressed this numerous times, companies are lazy.

I assume by your response that there is absolutely no waste in your company because you have optimized margins and there are no more cost cutting to improve anymore. I know this is not true.

---

Sounds like your brilliant analysis is backwards. It's the "good" companies who already have optimized margins who will be crushed by tariffs and have to pass costs onto their customers.

I suspect you have a skewed view of the population of "lazy" companies, since they're the only ones who would call you.

---

No company has eliminated all the waste they have. About 90% of all activities a company performs to satisfy their customer is waste.

Best companies in the world run at 70%.

Now maybe the companies you and civ work at have absolutely no waste and all activities you perform are value added. But I know this is not the case.

---

Lol, is that your sales pitch to these lazy companies? I guess they're too lazy to think about how ridiculous that statistic is.

---

This statistic is accurate. You again are embarrassing yourself commenting on something you obviously know nothing about.

ETA: let me help you here. Google percentage of value added activities. Let me know when you get a result higher than 10%.

Here is what I got: In most organizations, value added activities represent a small percentage of all activities, often less than 10%.

But go ahead and tell me different.

---

I certainly don't claim to be an expert in Six Sigma consultant-speak, but yeah, I've dealt with a thousand consultants and recognize the game.

Let's just say there's a lot of hand waving around the definitions of "value added" activities versus "necessary non-value added" versus "non-value added", so then applying percentages to that hand waving is silly.

It's telling that the "good" companies doing every Six Sigma thing they can still usually only achieve 15% "value added" activities by these definitions, leaving 85% still considered "pure waste"… that apparently it's not feasible to do anything about.

Which means in the real world these definitions are consultant-speak nonsense.

---

Six sigma is about variation elimination. It is not focused on waste elimination. You mis understood what you read on the inter webs.

This is not consultant speak and there is no game. You continue to embarrass yourself with commenting on things you have no idea about.

As Civ told us, a company is required to maximize margin so they should do something about it. It's just most do not see it or understand it. As I have said they are lazy.

The definitions of value added, non value added and non value added but needed are very clear. It is not at all consultant speak. And deriving ratios for companies is simple math.

---

Lol, you've literally spent this entire conversation talking about waste and quoting statistics pulled directly from Six Sigma websites. You even asked me to google them.

So thanks for the semantic b.s, very consultant-speak of you. Every six sigma training program says that "by eliminating waste and inefficiencies, Six Sigma can lead to significant cost savings". They're not talking about reducing piles of garbage, "waste" is essentially a variation of inefficiencies. They even refer to that 90% number you love to quote as "pure waste". Are you sure you understand this stuff well enough to charge people?

I'm very sure there are useful efficiencies that can be squeezed out by applying Six Sigma or any introspective analysis, but saying "we'll help you gain 5% more efficiency" just doesn't justify a consultant's existence quite like insisting that a company is OMG 90% pure waste.

SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

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El Lobo Loco said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Sweet, beautiful tariffs, helping Johnny Paycheck, and NASCAR!

"In the latest blow, the 100-year-old clock manufacturer that produced the iconic NASCAR Martinsville grandfather clock announced that it'd be shutting down - in part due to Trump's tariffs. "A convergence of market influences beyond our control brought us to this point," President and CEO Howard J. Miller said in an official statement.

Since 1964, Martinsville Speedway - one of the oldest tracks still featured on the NASCAR schedule - has gifted the Cup Series race winner a grandfather clock shortly after they coasted down victory lane. Fred Lorenzen first received the unique accolade that year, during which he led a whopping 980 out of 1,000 total laps over the two races held at the 'paperclip.'"

We are protecting American jobs with protectionist tariffs!

Long-standing NASCAR tradition in danger due to Donald Trump's tariffs

---

Nobody needs clocks anymore. All that is on your phone.

---

They need jobs though

---

Ok, I had to come out of retirement for this one…

Hokie, you've never shown one bit of concern for the American worker. That comment (in bold) is extremely shallow and purely opportunistic. You can do better! I'm out again…

---

no, I don't think the cure for the American worker is $15/hr factory jobs.

---

Average manufacturings job is significantly higher than $15/hr. But you know this, you use to say $18/hr. I have tried to educate you on this but you continue to be obtuse.

We are in the 3rd quarter is inflation hitting now?

---

sure, let's do $18/hr. You can make $30/hr with benefits at Costco. You can make $25/hr easy in construction with overtime.

There are thousands of unfilled service jobs that pay more and provide better opportunity, I've also tried to educate you folks on that too, and tariffs hurt those better paying jobs to a higher degree than they provide jobs in manufacturing.

Construction projects have increased costs of 4-6% in the 3rd quarter so yes, it's happening now.

Demand does dictate pricing, except when you manipulate the market to artificially increase pricing. Tariffs do that plus drive down demand. Pretty neat trick.

---

The average service job in the USA is between $14 and $22 per hour. Average manufacturing job in the USA is $28 per hour.

Where did you get the inflation cost for construction. Significantly higher than the average US cost increase

---

because I work in the industry

---

Well July is at 1.1% for USA construction . Not 4 to 6%.

---

Ok man. 25 years in the Construction industry, I get tariff related price increases weekly, I know w t f I'm talking about.

---

It was a simple search. I am sure you have never made up any numbers on the interwebs, so I believe you are seeing a higher increase.

If I am a supplier of yours, I am asking you for a price increase. You are very clear that the tariffs will go directly to the consumer.

---

yeah, I'm not going to absorb it and neither is anyone else. Every single commodity based and electronics based product that goes into a construction project continues to increase costs monthly at a higher rate than inflation

---

What do you mean "not absorb it"? You have been very consistent that prices will go up due to the tariffs. Does this mean in real life you are not accepting the price increases?

---

So what exactly are you saying?

That magically Trump tariffs have not and will not increase prices, despite having many decades of tariff examples domestically and internationally the illustrate clearly that tariffs do exactly that?

---

It is simple. What I am saying is that price is not driven by cost. The market drives price. Tariffs increase cost.

Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins.

---

Says who? You? LOL

Where is the evidence to support this novel theory of yours?

You act like Trump discovered tariffs and the world hasn't ever seen them before and we all just need to sit around guessing what's going to happen.

There are many decades of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Go find some good examples of countries levying significant tariffs and prices NOT increasing. Let's start there.

---

Let me start with the last couple of months for me.

This week I was at a client outside Chicago that had me in to reduce the cost on hydraulic equipment so they do not have to raise prices. Lots of this equipment is used in construction.

The week before, I was in Italy working for a client, reducing their costs so they can keep their margins without increasing prices.

The week before in Sweden doing the same thing for a similar company.

Since May I have worked with two clients in Canada doing the same thing.

I consider these good companies as they are keeping their prices the same.

Not sure it will click with you, but 90% of all CEOs believe they are in the top 10% of all CEOs. Lots of lazy companies.

---

All anecdotal, tiny sample size stuff.

No offense man but I'm not building sound US economic policy around your personal experience and observations running a small business.

It's a great big world out there, with a ton of examples of tariff policies and results over the last 80-100 years, domestically and abroad.

There is a mountain of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Show us the empirical evidence of significant tariffs NOT consequentially impacting consumer prices.

---

As expected. You ask for evidence to support my, what did you call it, "novel theory", and I do but of course that is not enough.

I have not once said prices will not rise, I said good companies are working to reduce costs so they do not have to raise prices. Lazy companies just want to pass on costs.

---

What evidence did you provide, exactly? You talked about your personal experience. That's not evidence, that's anecdote.

I'm talking about "yeah back in '84 we hit China with 40% tariffs on steel but US steel prices didn't budge. Something similar happened to Canadian lumber in '88". Or talk about Smoot-Hawley or 1800's protectionism or anything that's macro and researched. Not some hyper-micro example from your small business.

---

He lives in Private Equity Fantasy World where you can cut costs forever and it definitely won't eventually implode your business.

And of course it's MAGA scripture that a President insisting that companies eat the cost increases "or else" is a totally normal way to run a first world country.

---

Three of the companies are publicly traded. One is a single person owner and yes one is a PE. You continue to embarrass yourself and my university. If you are an NC State graduate.

---

I wasn't referring to the companies you're consulting for. I was referring to your cartoonish PE mentality that "good" companies can always just keep cutting costs somehow, and would never have to pass tariff cost increases on to their customers.

Anyhoo, I'd say the same about your nonsense, but it's clearly not possible for PE vultures *or* MAGA clowns to be embarrassed.

And feel free to donate to 1Pack anytime.

---

Right. If that was true, tariffs wouldn't have driven costs up and/or bludgeoned the broader economy due to their cooling effect on international trade basically every time we and other countries have implemented them in the last 150 years.

Yes, companies can try to cut costs in response to maintain their margins. But broadly, in 150 years of practice, companies that are able to do this sufficiently to not impact consumer prices AND aren't cutting costs in ways that harm the economy via job cuts are corner cases.

Again, tariffs aren't new. We have 150 years of good empirical evidence of their effect on the economy.

---

Starting to see parts of this Novel Theory, even confirming it has happened for over 100 years. It is what good companies do. Protect their customers as much as they can.

A couple things, can you share where you got the company cost cutting data to support your comment of only a few corner cases in the past?

Also, I know tariffs are not new, but comparing today to what happened 80 to 100 years ago is a stretch. End result may be the same but there is infinitely more information available to companies and consumers. Information moves so much more quickly. Also most companies today have va/ve programs, ci programs. Etc. so not new to reduce cost as compared to 80 years ago.

---

This "good companies protect their customers" nonsense doesn't survive even the most basic scrutiny.

First and foremost, significant tariffs around the world increase consumer prices basically uniformly. You go find evidence otherwise, you're the one saying that fairly settled economic science isn't true. Are the many thousands of companies that have historically increased prices in response to their costs going up not good companies?

Second, it makes no sense that companies are mysteriously waiting to reduce their costs or find efficiencies until when Trump levies inane tariffs and drives up their raw material or supply chain prices.

All of their and their shareholders' interests align in this regard. If there was margin to be found, they would or should have already found it.

Companies are in the business of optimizing margins - at all times , not just in tariff environments - so if it was that easy for them to go create margin it would be their fiduciary duty to have already done so for their shareholders, and also in their own financial best interests.

So why haven't these myriad companies across industries already been achieving greater efficiencies, lower costs, and higher margins?

So yes, some companies in some circumstances can cut some cost or reduce some margin to try to keep price increases as low as possible. But across decades and across industries, there is scant evidence that enough companies will be willing or able to cut enough of their costs and margins to preserve pricing.

---

I have addressed this numerous times, companies are lazy.

I assume by your response that there is absolutely no waste in your company because you have optimized margins and there are no more cost cutting to improve anymore. I know this is not true.

---

Sounds like your brilliant analysis is backwards. It's the "good" companies who already have optimized margins who will be crushed by tariffs and have to pass costs onto their customers.

I suspect you have a skewed view of the population of "lazy" companies, since they're the only ones who would call you.

---

No company has eliminated all the waste they have. About 90% of all activities a company performs to satisfy their customer is waste.

Best companies in the world run at 70%.

Now maybe the companies you and civ work at have absolutely no waste and all activities you perform are value added. But I know this is not the case.

---

Lol, is that your sales pitch to these lazy companies? I guess they're too lazy to think about how ridiculous that statistic is.

---

This statistic is accurate. You again are embarrassing yourself commenting on something you obviously know nothing about.

ETA: let me help you here. Google percentage of value added activities. Let me know when you get a result higher than 10%.

Here is what I got: In most organizations, value added activities represent a small percentage of all activities, often less than 10%.

But go ahead and tell me different.

---

I certainly don't claim to be an expert in Six Sigma consultant-speak, but yeah, I've dealt with a thousand consultants and recognize the game.

Let's just say there's a lot of hand waving around the definitions of "value added" activities versus "necessary non-value added" versus "non-value added", so then applying percentages to that hand waving is silly.

It's telling that the "good" companies doing every Six Sigma thing they can still usually only achieve 15% "value added" activities by these definitions, leaving 85% still considered "pure waste"… that apparently it's not feasible to do anything about.

Which means in the real world these definitions are consultant-speak nonsense.

---

Six sigma is about variation elimination. It is not focused on waste elimination. You mis understood what you read on the inter webs.

This is not consultant speak and there is no game. You continue to embarrass yourself with commenting on things you have no idea about.

As Civ told us, a company is required to maximize margin so they should do something about it. It's just most do not see it or understand it. As I have said they are lazy.

The definitions of value added, non value added and non value added but needed are very clear. It is not at all consultant speak. And deriving ratios for companies is simple math.

---

Lol, you've literally spent this entire conversation talking about waste and quoting statistics pulled directly from Six Sigma websites. You even asked me to google them.

So thanks for the semantic b.s, very consultant-speak of you. Every six sigma training program says that "by eliminating waste and inefficiencies, Six Sigma can lead to significant cost savings". They're not talking about reducing piles of garbage, "waste" is essentially a variation of inefficiencies. They even refer to that 90% number you love to quote as "pure waste". Are you sure you understand this stuff well enough to charge people?

I'm very sure there are useful efficiencies that can be squeezed out by applying Six Sigma or any introspective analysis, but saying "we'll help you gain 5% more efficiency" just doesn't justify a consultant's existence quite like insisting that a company is OMG 90% pure waste.

---

Another embarrassing post. I not once told you to go to a six sigma website. I told you to google percentage of value added activities. Now google six sigma vs lean. This is what I got but just check yourself::

Six Sigma and Lean are both process improvement methodologies, but they focus on different aspects. Six Sigma emphasizes reducing process variation and defects to near-perfection (3.4 defects per million opportunities), using statistical analysis. Lean focuses on eliminating waste and optimizing workflow to improve efficiency and value for the customer. Essentially, Six Sigma is a data-driven approach to quality, while Lean is a philosophy of continuous improvement and waste reduction.

You are way over your head with this one. But keep digging I am enjoying embarrassing you. And if it gets too much just let me know and I will stop. No need for you to get James involved.

jkpackfan said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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El Lobo Loco said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Sweet, beautiful tariffs, helping Johnny Paycheck, and NASCAR!

"In the latest blow, the 100-year-old clock manufacturer that produced the iconic NASCAR Martinsville grandfather clock announced that it'd be shutting down - in part due to Trump's tariffs. "A convergence of market influences beyond our control brought us to this point," President and CEO Howard J. Miller said in an official statement.

Since 1964, Martinsville Speedway - one of the oldest tracks still featured on the NASCAR schedule - has gifted the Cup Series race winner a grandfather clock shortly after they coasted down victory lane. Fred Lorenzen first received the unique accolade that year, during which he led a whopping 980 out of 1,000 total laps over the two races held at the 'paperclip.'"

We are protecting American jobs with protectionist tariffs!

Long-standing NASCAR tradition in danger due to Donald Trump's tariffs

---

Nobody needs clocks anymore. All that is on your phone.

---

They need jobs though

---

Ok, I had to come out of retirement for this one…

Hokie, you've never shown one bit of concern for the American worker. That comment (in bold) is extremely shallow and purely opportunistic. You can do better! I'm out again…

---

no, I don't think the cure for the American worker is $15/hr factory jobs.

---

Average manufacturings job is significantly higher than $15/hr. But you know this, you use to say $18/hr. I have tried to educate you on this but you continue to be obtuse.

We are in the 3rd quarter is inflation hitting now?

---

sure, let's do $18/hr. You can make $30/hr with benefits at Costco. You can make $25/hr easy in construction with overtime.

There are thousands of unfilled service jobs that pay more and provide better opportunity, I've also tried to educate you folks on that too, and tariffs hurt those better paying jobs to a higher degree than they provide jobs in manufacturing.

Construction projects have increased costs of 4-6% in the 3rd quarter so yes, it's happening now.

Demand does dictate pricing, except when you manipulate the market to artificially increase pricing. Tariffs do that plus drive down demand. Pretty neat trick.

---

The average service job in the USA is between $14 and $22 per hour. Average manufacturing job in the USA is $28 per hour.

Where did you get the inflation cost for construction. Significantly higher than the average US cost increase

---

because I work in the industry

---

Well July is at 1.1% for USA construction . Not 4 to 6%.

---

Ok man. 25 years in the Construction industry, I get tariff related price increases weekly, I know w t f I'm talking about.

---

It was a simple search. I am sure you have never made up any numbers on the interwebs, so I believe you are seeing a higher increase.

If I am a supplier of yours, I am asking you for a price increase. You are very clear that the tariffs will go directly to the consumer.

---

yeah, I'm not going to absorb it and neither is anyone else. Every single commodity based and electronics based product that goes into a construction project continues to increase costs monthly at a higher rate than inflation

---

What do you mean "not absorb it"? You have been very consistent that prices will go up due to the tariffs. Does this mean in real life you are not accepting the price increases?

---

So what exactly are you saying?

That magically Trump tariffs have not and will not increase prices, despite having many decades of tariff examples domestically and internationally the illustrate clearly that tariffs do exactly that?

---

It is simple. What I am saying is that price is not driven by cost. The market drives price. Tariffs increase cost.

Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins.

---

Says who? You? LOL

Where is the evidence to support this novel theory of yours?

You act like Trump discovered tariffs and the world hasn't ever seen them before and we all just need to sit around guessing what's going to happen.

There are many decades of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Go find some good examples of countries levying significant tariffs and prices NOT increasing. Let's start there.

---

Let me start with the last couple of months for me.

This week I was at a client outside Chicago that had me in to reduce the cost on hydraulic equipment so they do not have to raise prices. Lots of this equipment is used in construction.

The week before, I was in Italy working for a client, reducing their costs so they can keep their margins without increasing prices.

The week before in Sweden doing the same thing for a similar company.

Since May I have worked with two clients in Canada doing the same thing.

I consider these good companies as they are keeping their prices the same.

Not sure it will click with you, but 90% of all CEOs believe they are in the top 10% of all CEOs. Lots of lazy companies.

---

All anecdotal, tiny sample size stuff.

No offense man but I'm not building sound US economic policy around your personal experience and observations running a small business.

It's a great big world out there, with a ton of examples of tariff policies and results over the last 80-100 years, domestically and abroad.

There is a mountain of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Show us the empirical evidence of significant tariffs NOT consequentially impacting consumer prices.

---

As expected. You ask for evidence to support my, what did you call it, "novel theory", and I do but of course that is not enough.

I have not once said prices will not rise, I said good companies are working to reduce costs so they do not have to raise prices. Lazy companies just want to pass on costs.

---

What evidence did you provide, exactly? You talked about your personal experience. That's not evidence, that's anecdote.

I'm talking about "yeah back in '84 we hit China with 40% tariffs on steel but US steel prices didn't budge. Something similar happened to Canadian lumber in '88". Or talk about Smoot-Hawley or 1800's protectionism or anything that's macro and researched. Not some hyper-micro example from your small business.

---

He lives in Private Equity Fantasy World where you can cut costs forever and it definitely won't eventually implode your business.

And of course it's MAGA scripture that a President insisting that companies eat the cost increases "or else" is a totally normal way to run a first world country.

---

Three of the companies are publicly traded. One is a single person owner and yes one is a PE. You continue to embarrass yourself and my university. If you are an NC State graduate.

---

I wasn't referring to the companies you're consulting for. I was referring to your cartoonish PE mentality that "good" companies can always just keep cutting costs somehow, and would never have to pass tariff cost increases on to their customers.

Anyhoo, I'd say the same about your nonsense, but it's clearly not possible for PE vultures *or* MAGA clowns to be embarrassed.

And feel free to donate to 1Pack anytime.

---

I do contribute.

Not once did I say any company can cut costs non stop. Comments like that are why I am saying you are embarrassing yourself.

Did you graduate from NC State? Or even attend NC State?

---

Suuuure you contribute. You just don't want to show off your 1P badge that might convince other people to contribute.

You said "Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins." So you're saying that even "great" companies will eventually become "lazy" if tariffs get high enough or go on long enough? This is brilliant analysis.

Yeah, I graduated State with a bachelor's in Computer Science. Lived in Becton early on, was one of the last classes that camped for basketball tickets outside Reynolds. Lol, "my university". Given that you ended up being one of the hyenas of the business world I'll assume you actually graduated from Wake Tech.

---

I have my undergraduate and graduate both in engineering from State. I have two sons that attend NC State I pay for them to go to NIL events. Feel I get to do something for them and for NC State. More than happy to send you a copy of the receipt where they went to the event at Tabacco Road if you like. Just provide contact and I will send it to you.

I said good companies do what they can to protect their customers. Extrapolate what ever you want from that.

And read up on PEs you are living in a 20 plus year old paradigm.

---

I won't bother comparing resumes, I'd hate to make Gulf feel even dumber than he already is. But since you're clearly a high roller and are really worried about "your university" why don't you donate some real money to 1Pack? Lol, wow, you paid for tickets to an NIL event! Thats's foldin' money!

Anyway, if anything PE has gotten worse over the last 20 years. Vultures are actually a bad analogy, since they provide a valuable service to the ecosystem. PE is more of a parasitic infection preying on healthy companies. I'm sure you slept like a baby.

---

He/she can spend their money however the hell they want and it makes them no less of a fan than those of us who are 1P. With your pompous a$$ attitude you'd fit in perfectly in Chapel Hill. I disagree with Civ and Hokie on a lot of things but they seem like good people, you on the other hand....

---

I wasn't the one questioning whether he "even graduated from State". I guess you missed that infantile part of the conversation, as usual. Yes, it's funny that the guy questioning my alumni status isn't the 1Pack member actually putting his money where his mouth is.

Anyway, Civ and Hoakie have the patience of Job, but most of you guys are raging, unreachable degenerates, and deserve all of the ridicule that can be heaped on you. The site owners won't even set foot in here. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you are not "good people".

[color=#000000][font=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

NEW: Stephen Miller delivers the single greatest explanation of the Democrat Party’s immigration agenda in two minutes flat.

This is a wake-up call.

Miller lays out a strategy decades in the making....a history lesson unfolding in real time.@StephenM: “The left has been… pic.twitter.com/VUjuDWPOG2

— The Vigilant Fox 🦊 (@VigilantFox) July 14, 2025

[/font][/color]

Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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Civilized said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Cthepack said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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El Lobo Loco said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Sweet, beautiful tariffs, helping Johnny Paycheck, and NASCAR!

"In the latest blow, the 100-year-old clock manufacturer that produced the iconic NASCAR Martinsville grandfather clock announced that it'd be shutting down - in part due to Trump's tariffs. "A convergence of market influences beyond our control brought us to this point," President and CEO Howard J. Miller said in an official statement.

Since 1964, Martinsville Speedway - one of the oldest tracks still featured on the NASCAR schedule - has gifted the Cup Series race winner a grandfather clock shortly after they coasted down victory lane. Fred Lorenzen first received the unique accolade that year, during which he led a whopping 980 out of 1,000 total laps over the two races held at the 'paperclip.'"

We are protecting American jobs with protectionist tariffs!

Long-standing NASCAR tradition in danger due to Donald Trump's tariffs

---

Nobody needs clocks anymore. All that is on your phone.

---

They need jobs though

---

Ok, I had to come out of retirement for this one…

Hokie, you've never shown one bit of concern for the American worker. That comment (in bold) is extremely shallow and purely opportunistic. You can do better! I'm out again…

---

no, I don't think the cure for the American worker is $15/hr factory jobs.

---

Average manufacturings job is significantly higher than $15/hr. But you know this, you use to say $18/hr. I have tried to educate you on this but you continue to be obtuse.

We are in the 3rd quarter is inflation hitting now?

---

sure, let's do $18/hr. You can make $30/hr with benefits at Costco. You can make $25/hr easy in construction with overtime.

There are thousands of unfilled service jobs that pay more and provide better opportunity, I've also tried to educate you folks on that too, and tariffs hurt those better paying jobs to a higher degree than they provide jobs in manufacturing.

Construction projects have increased costs of 4-6% in the 3rd quarter so yes, it's happening now.

Demand does dictate pricing, except when you manipulate the market to artificially increase pricing. Tariffs do that plus drive down demand. Pretty neat trick.

---

The average service job in the USA is between $14 and $22 per hour. Average manufacturing job in the USA is $28 per hour.

Where did you get the inflation cost for construction. Significantly higher than the average US cost increase

---

because I work in the industry

---

Well July is at 1.1% for USA construction . Not 4 to 6%.

---

Ok man. 25 years in the Construction industry, I get tariff related price increases weekly, I know w t f I'm talking about.

---

It was a simple search. I am sure you have never made up any numbers on the interwebs, so I believe you are seeing a higher increase.

If I am a supplier of yours, I am asking you for a price increase. You are very clear that the tariffs will go directly to the consumer.

---

yeah, I'm not going to absorb it and neither is anyone else. Every single commodity based and electronics based product that goes into a construction project continues to increase costs monthly at a higher rate than inflation

---

What do you mean "not absorb it"? You have been very consistent that prices will go up due to the tariffs. Does this mean in real life you are not accepting the price increases?

---

So what exactly are you saying?

That magically Trump tariffs have not and will not increase prices, despite having many decades of tariff examples domestically and internationally the illustrate clearly that tariffs do exactly that?

---

It is simple. What I am saying is that price is not driven by cost. The market drives price. Tariffs increase cost.

Lazy companies will pass on cost, great companies understand the market, protect their customers, and reduce cost. In order to keep their margins.

---

Says who? You? LOL

Where is the evidence to support this novel theory of yours?

You act like Trump discovered tariffs and the world hasn't ever seen them before and we all just need to sit around guessing what's going to happen.

There are many decades of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Go find some good examples of countries levying significant tariffs and prices NOT increasing. Let's start there.

---

Let me start with the last couple of months for me.

This week I was at a client outside Chicago that had me in to reduce the cost on hydraulic equipment so they do not have to raise prices. Lots of this equipment is used in construction.

The week before, I was in Italy working for a client, reducing their costs so they can keep their margins without increasing prices.

The week before in Sweden doing the same thing for a similar company.

Since May I have worked with two clients in Canada doing the same thing.

I consider these good companies as they are keeping their prices the same.

Not sure it will click with you, but 90% of all CEOs believe they are in the top 10% of all CEOs. Lots of lazy companies.

---

All anecdotal, tiny sample size stuff.

No offense man but I'm not building sound US economic policy around your personal experience and observations running a small business.

It's a great big world out there, with a ton of examples of tariff policies and results over the last 80-100 years, domestically and abroad.

There is a mountain of empirical evidence that tariffs increase prices.

Show us the empirical evidence of significant tariffs NOT consequentially impacting consumer prices.

---

As expected. You ask for evidence to support my, what did you call it, "novel theory", and I do but of course that is not enough.

I have not once said prices will not rise, I said good companies are working to reduce costs so they do not have to raise prices. Lazy companies just want to pass on costs.

---

What evidence did you provide, exactly? You talked about your personal experience. That's not evidence, that's anecdote.

I'm talking about "yeah back in '84 we hit China with 40% tariffs on steel but US steel prices didn't budge. Something similar happened to Canadian lumber in '88". Or talk about Smoot-Hawley or 1800's protectionism or anything that's macro and researched. Not some hyper-micro example from your small business.

---

He lives in Private Equity Fantasy World where you can cut costs forever and it definitely won't eventually implode your business.

And of course it's MAGA scripture that a President insisting that companies eat the cost increases "or else" is a totally normal way to run a first world country.

---

Three of the companies are publicly traded. One is a single person owner and yes one is a PE. You continue to embarrass yourself and my university. If you are an NC State graduate.

---

I wasn't referring to the companies you're consulting for. I was referring to your cartoonish PE mentality that "good" companies can always just keep cutting costs somehow, and would never have to pass tariff cost increases on to their customers.

Anyhoo, I'd say the same about your nonsense, but it's clearly not possible for PE vultures *or* MAGA clowns to be embarrassed.

And feel free to donate to 1Pack anytime.

---

Right. If that was true, tariffs wouldn't have driven costs up and/or bludgeoned the broader economy due to their cooling effect on international trade basically every time we and other countries have implemented them in the last 150 years.

Yes, companies can try to cut costs in response to maintain their margins. But broadly, in 150 years of practice, companies that are able to do this sufficiently to not impact consumer prices AND aren't cutting costs in ways that harm the economy via job cuts are corner cases.

Again, tariffs aren't new. We have 150 years of good empirical evidence of their effect on the economy.

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Starting to see parts of this Novel Theory, even confirming it has happened for over 100 years. It is what good companies do. Protect their customers as much as they can.

A couple things, can you share where you got the company cost cutting data to support your comment of only a few corner cases in the past?

Also, I know tariffs are not new, but comparing today to what happened 80 to 100 years ago is a stretch. End result may be the same but there is infinitely more information available to companies and consumers. Information moves so much more quickly. Also most companies today have va/ve programs, ci programs. Etc. so not new to reduce cost as compared to 80 years ago.

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This "good companies protect their customers" nonsense doesn't survive even the most basic scrutiny.

First and foremost, significant tariffs around the world increase consumer prices basically uniformly. You go find evidence otherwise, you're the one saying that fairly settled economic science isn't true. Are the many thousands of companies that have historically increased prices in response to their costs going up not good companies?

Second, it makes no sense that companies are mysteriously waiting to reduce their costs or find efficiencies until when Trump levies inane tariffs and drives up their raw material or supply chain prices.

All of their and their shareholders' interests align in this regard. If there was margin to be found, they would or should have already found it.

Companies are in the business of optimizing margins - at all times , not just in tariff environments - so if it was that easy for them to go create margin it would be their fiduciary duty to have already done so for their shareholders, and also in their own financial best interests.

So why haven't these myriad companies across industries already been achieving greater efficiencies, lower costs, and higher margins?

So yes, some companies in some circumstances can cut some cost or reduce some margin to try to keep price increases as low as possible. But across decades and across industries, there is scant evidence that enough companies will be willing or able to cut enough of their costs and margins to preserve pricing.

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I have addressed this numerous times, companies are lazy.

I assume by your response that there is absolutely no waste in your company because you have optimized margins and there are no more cost cutting to improve anymore. I know this is not true.

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Sounds like your brilliant analysis is backwards. It's the "good" companies who already have optimized margins who will be crushed by tariffs and have to pass costs onto their customers.

I suspect you have a skewed view of the population of "lazy" companies, since they're the only ones who would call you.

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No company has eliminated all the waste they have. About 90% of all activities a company performs to satisfy their customer is waste.

Best companies in the world run at 70%.

Now maybe the companies you and civ work at have absolutely no waste and all activities you perform are value added. But I know this is not the case.

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Lol, is that your sales pitch to these lazy companies? I guess they're too lazy to think about how ridiculous that statistic is.

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This statistic is accurate. You again are embarrassing yourself commenting on something you obviously know nothing about.

ETA: let me help you here. Google percentage of value added activities. Let me know when you get a result higher than 10%.

Here is what I got: In most organizations, value added activities represent a small percentage of all activities, often less than 10%.

But go ahead and tell me different.

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I certainly don't claim to be an expert in Six Sigma consultant-speak, but yeah, I've dealt with a thousand consultants and recognize the game.

Let's just say there's a lot of hand waving around the definitions of "value added" activities versus "necessary non-value added" versus "non-value added", so then applying percentages to that hand waving is silly.

It's telling that the "good" companies doing every Six Sigma thing they can still usually only achieve 15% "value added" activities by these definitions, leaving 85% still considered "pure waste"… that apparently it's not feasible to do anything about.

Which means in the real world these definitions are consultant-speak nonsense.

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Six sigma is about variation elimination. It is not focused on waste elimination. You mis understood what you read on the inter webs.

This is not consultant speak and there is no game. You continue to embarrass yourself with commenting on things you have no idea about.

As Civ told us, a company is required to maximize margin so they should do something about it. It's just most do not see it or understand it. As I have said they are lazy.

The definitions of value added, non value added and non value added but needed are very clear. It is not at all consultant speak. And deriving ratios for companies is simple math.

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Lol, you've literally spent this entire conversation talking about waste and quoting statistics pulled directly from Six Sigma websites. You even asked me to google them.

So thanks for the semantic b.s, very consultant-speak of you. Every six sigma training program says that "by eliminating waste and inefficiencies, Six Sigma can lead to significant cost savings". They're not talking about reducing piles of garbage, "waste" is essentially a variation of inefficiencies. They even refer to that 90% number you love to quote as "pure waste". Are you sure you understand this stuff well enough to charge people?

I'm very sure there are useful efficiencies that can be squeezed out by applying Six Sigma or any introspective analysis, but saying "we'll help you gain 5% more efficiency" just doesn't justify a consultant's existence quite like insisting that a company is OMG 90% pure waste.

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Another embarrassing post. I not once told you to go to a six sigma website. I told you to google percentage of value added activities. Now google six sigma vs lean. This is what I got but just check yourself::

Six Sigma and Lean are both process improvement methodologies, but they focus on different aspects. Six Sigma emphasizes reducing process variation and defects to near-perfection (3.4 defects per million opportunities), using statistical analysis. Lean focuses on eliminating waste and optimizing workflow to improve efficiency and value for the customer. Essentially, Six Sigma is a data-driven approach to quality, while Lean is a philosophy of continuous improvement and waste reduction.

You are way over your head with this one. But keep digging I am enjoying embarrassing you. And if it gets too much just let me know and I will stop. No need for you to get James involved.

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You do know that "Lean Six Sigma" is a thing, right? Of course you do. That's what I've been referring to, you know, where you got your 10% statistic from.

Lol, never mind.

Back to the point… for the vast majority of companies, squeezing out 5% more efficiency, best case, is not going to magically nullify tariff cost increases. You're in MAGA fantasy land.

[color=#000000][font=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Crossfire Hurricane might be described as a storm?[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=TwitterChirp, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

John Solomon provides an update to the massive news he broke over the weekend that the FBI has been investigating “grand conspiracy” charges against the Russiagate hoaxers.

Kash Patel apparently needs President Trump to declassify a couple “tranches of evidence” - both related… pic.twitter.com/JJWwmH1HUp

— TheStormHasArrived (@TheStormRedux) July 14, 2025

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Oldsouljer said:

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Is raging degenerate the same thing as basket of deplorables? Just asking to see if I've been re-categorized.

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Lol it appears so.

Special prosecutor, the Fed, Silver, a lot to happen this week
https://rumble.com/v6vq5vn--july-4th-2025-happy-independence-day-ncswic.html