BBW12OG said:

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Sleepy Joe's America.... When the lefties are in charge this is the end result.....

Be proud of yourselves comrades... This is what you vote for.

---

Rates of overdoses in Oregon are up 15% since 2020, when this law was enacted.

How does that compare to the rest of the country?

Sundowning is real... he didn't have his ice cream to take him to his "happy place."

This would have the MSM on fire for the next week.... This is what you lefties complain about President Trump right?

Not being "Presidential?"

You clowns are something else...

Doocy: "Is your top domestic issue inflation or abortion?"

Biden: "They're all important. Unlike you, there is no one thing." pic.twitter.com/3J1BKEAHWG

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) October 19, 2022

From sea to shining sea Civ...

I can keep posting these from various cities, MARXIST run cities all damn night long if you are going to keep questioning the fact that YOUR party is enabling this.

Imagine if you will, walking down the street with young children and one of these drug addled fools accosting you, your family because YOUR party doesn't want to enforce the laws or they have defunded the police. Or better yet, made this legal.

That is what YOU support. Own it. It's what you have created.

Our cities have fallen pic.twitter.com/6rQ6OVZjQq

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) October 19, 2022

BBW12OG said:

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Civilized said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Sleepy Joe's America.... When the lefties are in charge this is the end result.....

Be proud of yourselves comrades... This is what you vote for.

---

Rates of overdoses in Oregon are up 15% since 2020, when this law was enacted.

How does that compare to the rest of the country?

---

Well.... Your candidate for U.S. Senate in Pennsylvania is campaigning on "free drug use zones.."

And several of your MARXIST PARTY members are encouraging the same drug laws they have in Portland for the USA.

This is the party of the left. This is what you support. You can deny it all you want but this is a FACT.

Enjoy. Great morals your party has.

But "no mean tweets right?"

---

I didn't deny anything.

I asked a question that you obviously don't know the answer to.

Civilized said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Civilized said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

Sleepy Joe's America.... When the lefties are in charge this is the end result.....

Be proud of yourselves comrades... This is what you vote for.

---

Rates of overdoses in Oregon are up 15% since 2020, when this law was enacted.

How does that compare to the rest of the country?

---

Well.... Your candidate for U.S. Senate in Pennsylvania is campaigning on "free drug use zones.."

And several of your MARXIST PARTY members are encouraging the same drug laws they have in Portland for the USA.

This is the party of the left. This is what you support. You can deny it all you want but this is a FACT.

Enjoy. Great morals your party has.

But "no mean tweets right?"

---

I didn't deny anything.

I asked a question that you obviously don't know the answer to.

---

I posted a video from NY.

Sea to shining sea....

Go read the posts. I do know the answer and I showed you.

Your move Comrade Civ. Your goose steppers are watching.

BBW12OG said:

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From sea to shining sea Civ...

I can keep posting these from various cities, MARXIST run cities all damn night long if you are going to keep questioning the fact that YOUR party is enabling this.

Imagine if you will, walking down the street with young children and one of these drug addled fools accosting you, your family because YOUR party doesn't want to enforce the laws or they have defunded the police. Or better yet, made this legal.

That is what YOU support. Own it. It's what you have created.

Our cities have fallen pic.twitter.com/6rQ6OVZjQq

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) October 19, 2022

---

Here you go Comrade Civ.

Civilized said:

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BBW12OG said:

---

Civilized said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

Sleepy Joe's America.... When the lefties are in charge this is the end result.....

Be proud of yourselves comrades... This is what you vote for.

---

Rates of overdoses in Oregon are up 15% since 2020, when this law was enacted.

How does that compare to the rest of the country?

---

Well.... Your candidate for U.S. Senate in Pennsylvania is campaigning on "free drug use zones.."

And several of your MARXIST PARTY members are encouraging the same drug laws they have in Portland for the USA.

This is the party of the left. This is what you support. You can deny it all you want but this is a FACT.

Enjoy. Great morals your party has.

But "no mean tweets right?"

---

I didn't deny anything.

I asked a question that you obviously don't know the answer to.

---

cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm

Overdoses are up in 40 of 50 states in the 12 month period between May 2021 and May 2022 than the rates in the period between May 2020 and May 2021. The CDC feels the date is underreported and by their predictions its actually up in 43 out of 50 states. There is an interactive map where you can view reported and predicted data during the time periods.

jadawson said:

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Civilized said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Civilized said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

Sleepy Joe's America.... When the lefties are in charge this is the end result.....

Be proud of yourselves comrades... This is what you vote for.

---

Rates of overdoses in Oregon are up 15% since 2020, when this law was enacted.

How does that compare to the rest of the country?

---

Well.... Your candidate for U.S. Senate in Pennsylvania is campaigning on "free drug use zones.."

And several of your MARXIST PARTY members are encouraging the same drug laws they have in Portland for the USA.

This is the party of the left. This is what you support. You can deny it all you want but this is a FACT.

Enjoy. Great morals your party has.

But "no mean tweets right?"

---

I didn't deny anything.

I asked a question that you obviously don't know the answer to.

---

cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm

Overdoses are up in 40 of 50 states in the 12 month period between May 2021 and May 2022 than the rates in the period between May 2020 and May 2021. The CDC feels the date is underreported and by their predictions its actually up in 43 out of 50 states. There is an interactive map where you can view reported and predicted data during the time periods.

---

Thank you jadawson.

That's exactly what I was referring to.

Overdoses are up most everywhere. If you want to argue that decriminalization of heavy drugs isn't prudent, that's your prerogative.

But to claim it's causing additional overdose deaths in Oregon you'd have to first at least show that OD deaths are increasing in Oregon more than they are in the rest of the country.

That's a hard argument to substantiate at this point.

Good ol' Big Beautiful Wolf, sees the symptoms as the problem just so he can own the libs. No real thought or solutions.

Civilized said:

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jadawson said:

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Civilized said:

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BBW12OG said:

---

Civilized said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

Sleepy Joe's America.... When the lefties are in charge this is the end result.....

Be proud of yourselves comrades... This is what you vote for.

---

Rates of overdoses in Oregon are up 15% since 2020, when this law was enacted.

How does that compare to the rest of the country?

---

Well.... Your candidate for U.S. Senate in Pennsylvania is campaigning on "free drug use zones.."

And several of your MARXIST PARTY members are encouraging the same drug laws they have in Portland for the USA.

This is the party of the left. This is what you support. You can deny it all you want but this is a FACT.

Enjoy. Great morals your party has.

But "no mean tweets right?"

---

I didn't deny anything.

I asked a question that you obviously don't know the answer to.

---

cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm

Overdoses are up in 40 of 50 states in the 12 month period between May 2021 and May 2022 than the rates in the period between May 2020 and May 2021. The CDC feels the date is underreported and by their predictions its actually up in 43 out of 50 states. There is an interactive map where you can view reported and predicted data during the time periods.

---

Thank you jadawson.

That's exactly what I was referring to.

Overdoses are up most everywhere. If you want to argue that decriminalization of heavy drugs isn't prudent, that's your prerogative.

But to claim it's causing additional overdose deaths in Oregon you'd have to first at least show that OD deaths are increasing in Oregon more than they are in the rest of the country.

That's a hard argument to substantiate at this point.

---

Is it? Prove me wrong..

Oregon's legalization has been an abject failure.

https://www.city-journal.org/oregons-disastrous-drug-experiment

"On the issue of reducing addiction and overdoses, Oregon's decriminalization of drug use has been a tragic failure. Overdose deaths rose by over 33 percent in Oregon in 2021, the year after the law was passed, compared with a rise of 15 percent in the rest of the United States. As for the claim that the law would provide a pathway to treatment for addicts, less than 1 percent of the people eligible for treatment under Measure 110a paltry 136 peopleended up getting help. In fact, out of the 2,576 tickets written by police for drug possession, only 116 people called the help hotline to get the ticket waived, with the vast majority of the others choosing to pay the minimal fine instead. As Coelho warned, without the threat of incarceration and the mandatory court programs that come with an arrest, addicts seldom have any interest in getting treatment.
The impact of decriminalizing drugs did not stop with addiction and overdoses. Police in Portland report that all categories of crime jumped in reaction to Measure 110. Drug addicts need money; they got it by stealing items and reselling them, so property crimes rose. Once a drug market opens up, drug dealers move in to service it. As a result, the streets of Portland are awash in guns and drugs. With drug dealers battling for turf, gun violence increased. Portland recorded 90 homicides in 2021, shattering the old record for annual murders in the city. "We've seen more guns than we've ever seen in our investigations," a Portland police supervisor bluntly stated. "Almost everybody is armed. . . . Criminal organizations are robbing other criminal organizations. That's kind of our big push right nowtrying to stop the gun violence and the drug violence that goes with it, because they're hand in hand. It's not one or the other. It's not related to the pandemic, it's not related to Covid, it's because we have a criminal environment that's tolerated and allowed to flourish here."

packgrad said:

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Oregon's legalization has been an abject failure.

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Oregon isn't the only place on the planet that's tried it and it's still a relatively new policy that can potentially be refined and better adopted over time.

Oregon is two years into the experiment.

Portugal is 21 years in. They went full decriminalization in 2001 in the midst of their own opioid epidemic that was not being solved by prosecution and incarceration.

At the time of this article's publication and since their full decriminalization took place, Portugal's overdose death rate had fallen to 5x lower than the EU average and 50x lower than the American OD death rate.

https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

Perhaps Oregon never achieves success with this policy. But it's been successfully implemented elsewhere, and given the relative lack of success of prosecution and incarceration of drug users isn't it worth considering a change in strategy?

BBW12OG said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Good ol' Big Beautiful Wolf, sees the symptoms as the problem just so he can own the libs. No real thought or solutions.

---

Our resident MARXIST libbie is chiming in......

I have plenty thoughts and solutions. Your party refuses to acknowledge that druggies need to be in jail.

Here's a solution.. you break the law. You go to jail. You break the law.... you go to jail.

I know your "feewlings" may get hurt.. but actions have consequences. And it ain't getting a trophy.

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Big Beautiful Wolf, put everyone in jail! Solves the symptoms and not the problems!

hokiewolf said:

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BBW12OG said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Good ol' Big Beautiful Wolf, sees the symptoms as the problem just so he can own the libs. No real thought or solutions.

---

Our resident MARXIST libbie is chiming in......

I have plenty thoughts and solutions. Your party refuses to acknowledge that druggies need to be in jail.

Here's a solution.. you break the law. You go to jail. You break the law.... you go to jail.

I know your "feewlings" may get hurt.. but actions have consequences. And it ain't getting a trophy.

---

Big Beautiful Wolf, put everyone in jail! Solves the symptoms and not the problems!

---

Hokie, I ask you same question...

help us understand what our expectations should be while we go through the decriminalization process, please…

packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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Oregon's legalization has been an abject failure.

---

Oregon isn't the only place on the planet that's tried it and it's still a relatively new policy that can potentially be refined and better adopted over time.

Oregon is two years into the experiment.

Portugal is 21 years in. They went full decriminalization in 2001 in the midst of their own opioid epidemic that was not being solved by prosecution and incarceration.

At the time of this article's publication and since their full decriminalization took place, Portugal's overdose death rate had fallen to 5x lower than the EU average and 50x lower than the American OD death rate.

https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

Perhaps Oregon never achieves success with this policy. But it's been successfully implemented elsewhere, and given the relative lack of success of prosecution and incarceration of drug users isn't it worth considering a change in strategy?

---

No, I don't think going to the opposite end of the spectrum is a strategy worth considering. It clearly doesn't work. How long should this failed experiment should continue? You're all in on telling people with mental illnesses that they are not, normalizing the nonsense of dozens of genders, propagandizing supposed medical communities. When do you feel democrats will open their eyes to their failed policies? Or is this their new way now? Data and science are irrelevant. Govern by far left ideals.

---

I just gave you an unequivocal data-driven example of how this exact policy has worked extremely well in Portugal. With a much more statistically significant sample size (21 years vs. 2 years).

But also I've said, maybe it's not a fit for Oregon. Maybe they refine the policy or it's implementation and achieve greater success than they have over the last two years. Either way, when there's such a significant example of a very similar approach being so successful elsewhere it makes it's much harder to dismiss Oregon's approach as the failed work of Marxist loons that has no chance of being more successful than the obviously unsuccessful drug user prosecution and incarceration.

Typical liberal loon logic.

It works for this place so it must work everywhere.

You can't reason with people who think they are smarter than everyone else in the room.

packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

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Oregon's legalization has been an abject failure.

---

Oregon isn't the only place on the planet that's tried it and it's still a relatively new policy that can potentially be refined and better adopted over time.

Oregon is two years into the experiment.

Portugal is 21 years in. They went full decriminalization in 2001 in the midst of their own opioid epidemic that was not being solved by prosecution and incarceration.

At the time of this article's publication and since their full decriminalization took place, Portugal's overdose death rate had fallen to 5x lower than the EU average and 50x lower than the American OD death rate.

https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

Perhaps Oregon never achieves success with this policy. But it's been successfully implemented elsewhere, and given the relative lack of success of prosecution and incarceration of drug users isn't it worth considering a change in strategy?

---

No, I don't think going to the opposite end of the spectrum is a strategy worth considering. It clearly doesn't work. How long should this failed experiment should continue? You're all in on telling people with mental illnesses that they are not, normalizing the nonsense of dozens of genders, propagandizing supposed medical communities. When do you feel democrats will open their eyes to their failed policies? Or is this their new way now? Data and science are irrelevant. Govern by far left ideals.

---

I just gave you an unequivocal data-driven example of how this exact policy has worked extremely well in Portugal. With a much more statistically significant sample size (21 years vs. 2 years).

But also I've said, maybe it's not a fit for Oregon. Maybe they refine the policy or it's implementation and achieve greater success than they have over the last two years. Either way, when there's such a significant example of a very similar approach being so successful elsewhere it makes it's much harder to dismiss Oregon's approach as the failed work of Marxist loons that has no chance of being more successful than the obviously unsuccessful drug user prosecution and incarceration.

---

What does Portugal have in common with the United States? Your comparison is as significant as saying tomatoes should grow plentifully in the desert because they grow plentifully in NC.

How long, how many overdose deaths, how much more crime, and how many more drug related murders until your unequivocal data driven example is given up on?

---

What it has in common was a very significant opioid problem that was being unsuccessfully combated with incarcerating simple drug users. A very high proportion (around half) of their incarcerated were drug users, which was destabilizing families, unsuccessfully treating users for their actual drug problem, robbing the Portugal job market of prospective workers, etc.

So I'd say a lot. There's nothing particularly novel about the myriad ways incarcerating addicts negatively impacts society.

The decriminalization experiment has been ongoing for two years and may or may not work. The criminalization experiment had already failed decades ago. Why are we eager for a return to a system that has failed drug addicts and society for decades?

Below linked is an Australian study. No fact checking done of it by me (not that anyone has fact checked Portugal data on here either), nor have I read it all. A few things I did note in my perusal though….

Portugal changed the way they calculated drug deaths after legalization.
Overdoses were falling before legalization.
The method of use was discussed in relation to overdoses. Smoke vs injection.
Drug use and deaths have increased since legalization.

Will try to read the test later.

https://www.dalgarnoinstitute.org.au/images/resources/pdf/dart/The_Truth_on_Portugal_December_2018.pdf

Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Oregon's legalization has been an abject failure.

---

Oregon isn't the only place on the planet that's tried it and it's still a relatively new policy that can potentially be refined and better adopted over time.

Oregon is two years into the experiment.

Portugal is 21 years in. They went full decriminalization in 2001 in the midst of their own opioid epidemic that was not being solved by prosecution and incarceration.

At the time of this article's publication and since their full decriminalization took place, Portugal's overdose death rate had fallen to 5x lower than the EU average and 50x lower than the American OD death rate.

https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

Perhaps Oregon never achieves success with this policy. But it's been successfully implemented elsewhere, and given the relative lack of success of prosecution and incarceration of drug users isn't it worth considering a change in strategy?

---

No, I don't think going to the opposite end of the spectrum is a strategy worth considering. It clearly doesn't work. How long should this failed experiment should continue? You're all in on telling people with mental illnesses that they are not, normalizing the nonsense of dozens of genders, propagandizing supposed medical communities. When do you feel democrats will open their eyes to their failed policies? Or is this their new way now? Data and science are irrelevant. Govern by far left ideals.

---

I just gave you an unequivocal data-driven example of how this exact policy has worked extremely well in Portugal. With a much more statistically significant sample size (21 years vs. 2 years).

But also I've said, maybe it's not a fit for Oregon. Maybe they refine the policy or it's implementation and achieve greater success than they have over the last two years. Either way, when there's such a significant example of a very similar approach being so successful elsewhere it makes it's much harder to dismiss Oregon's approach as the failed work of Marxist loons that has no chance of being more successful than the obviously unsuccessful drug user prosecution and incarceration.

---

What does Portugal have in common with the United States? Your comparison is as significant as saying tomatoes should grow plentifully in the desert because they grow plentifully in NC.

How long, how many overdose deaths, how much more crime, and how many more drug related murders until your unequivocal data driven example is given up on?

---

What it has in common was a very significant opioid problem that was being unsuccessfully combated with incarcerating simple drug users. A very high proportion (around half) of their incarcerated were drug users, which was destabilizing families, unsuccessfully treating users for their actual drug problem, robbing the Portugal job market of prospective workers, etc.

So I'd say a lot. There's nothing particularly novel about the myriad ways incarcerating addicts negatively impacts society.

The decriminalization experiment has been ongoing for two years and may or may not work. The criminalization experiment had already failed decades ago. Why are we eager for a return to a system that has failed drug addicts and society for decades?

---

Nah. We've had years and multiple cities across the country to see how your party's decriminalization policies work. You let criminals walk in every city only for them to kill and maim over and over again. I don't think your decriminalizing experiments are worth a *****

Your method of fixing crime by just saying it's not a crime anymore (not only with crime, but also mental illness) is illogical. We see it on the border, drugs, transgender, California metropolitan areas, NYC, Chicago, the list goes on and on. The system fails because leftists like yourself don't want to let the system work.

packgrad said:

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Below linked is an Australian study. No fact checking done of it by me (not that anyone has fact checked Portugal data on here either), nor have I read it all. A few things I did note in my perusal though….

Portugal changed the way they calculated drug deaths after legalization.
Overdoses were falling before legalization.
The method of use was discussed in relation to overdoses. Smoke vs injection.
Drug use and deaths have increased since legalization.

Will try to read the test later.

https://www.dalgarnoinstitute.org.au/images/resources/pdf/dart/The_Truth_on_Portugal_December_2018.pdf

---

Thanks. Looks interesting, curious to give it a look.

BBW12OG said:

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Typical liberal loon logic.

It works for this place so it must work everywhere.

You can't reason with people who think they are smarter than everyone else in the room.

---

Wrong framing.

It works for one place so it's worth considering for another.

Also, incarcerating users hasn't worked for decades so try something else.

Civilized said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Typical liberal loon logic.

It works for this place so it must work everywhere.

You can't reason with people who think they are smarter than everyone else in the room.

---

Wrong framing.

It works for one place so it's worth considering for another.

Also, incarcerating users hasn't worked for decades so try something else.

---

Perhaps the Singapore method.

packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

---

BBW12OG said:

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Typical liberal loon logic.

It works for this place so it must work everywhere.

You can't reason with people who think they are smarter than everyone else in the room.

---

Wrong framing.

It works for one place so it's worth considering for another.

Also, incarcerating users hasn't worked for decades so try something else.

---

Perhaps the Singapore method.

---

Haha. What do they do in Singapore? Do I want to know?

Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

---

BBW12OG said:

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Typical liberal loon logic.

It works for this place so it must work everywhere.

You can't reason with people who think they are smarter than everyone else in the room.

---

Wrong framing.

It works for one place so it's worth considering for another.

Also, incarcerating users hasn't worked for decades so try something else.

---

Perhaps the Singapore method.

---

Haha. What do they do in Singapore? Do I want to know?

---

They will damn near beat you to death with a cane! Guess what? They have little crime and clean streets!