The Biden Administration..V3

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Gulfstream4
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Civilized said:

Gulfstream4 said:

Civilized said:

BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.


You could see this coming.
Care to dispute what she said? I know for you it is difficult to admit that the guy you support is an absolute failure as is the entire MARXIST PARTY you support but since you decided to comment why don't you weigh in on that?

You have another good little sheep on this thread maybe he will help you out.

If you think I support Biden, you haven't been paying attention.

And there's no reason to try to dispute what she said. It's her opinion, it has some validity, and she's entitled to it.

She's been well right of mainstream Dem politics for years. That's how she rolls and her leaving the party is an logical extension of her ideologies.


You voted for Biden, correct? That's called supporting him.

Really?

So you'd call someone a "Trump supporter" if they held their nose and voted for Trump when he was running against Hillary, and then soured on Trump by the end of his term to the extent that they wouldn't vote for him again?

Voting for an unproven candidate over one that had already proven himself to be unfit for office is a fairly pragmatic decision. I wasn't voting for the unfit guy and there was only one other guy to vote for. That's where I was with Biden.

As I've said many times on here, unfortunately for the American people Biden has now proven he's also unfit for office.

I won't be voting for Biden in the upcoming election. I don't think that it's therefore accurate to say I'm a "Biden supporter," which obviously connotes current support for the job he's done as President.


Respectfully, what you're saying is "yes, I support Joe".
Civilized
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Gulfstream4 said:

Civilized said:

Gulfstream4 said:

Civilized said:

BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.


You could see this coming.
Care to dispute what she said? I know for you it is difficult to admit that the guy you support is an absolute failure as is the entire MARXIST PARTY you support but since you decided to comment why don't you weigh in on that?

You have another good little sheep on this thread maybe he will help you out.

If you think I support Biden, you haven't been paying attention.

And there's no reason to try to dispute what she said. It's her opinion, it has some validity, and she's entitled to it.

She's been well right of mainstream Dem politics for years. That's how she rolls and her leaving the party is an logical extension of her ideologies.


You voted for Biden, correct? That's called supporting him.

Really?

So you'd call someone a "Trump supporter" if they held their nose and voted for Trump when he was running against Hillary, and then soured on Trump by the end of his term to the extent that they wouldn't vote for him again?

Voting for an unproven candidate over one that had already proven himself to be unfit for office is a fairly pragmatic decision. I wasn't voting for the unfit guy and there was only one other guy to vote for. That's where I was with Biden.

As I've said many times on here, unfortunately for the American people Biden has now proven he's also unfit for office.

I won't be voting for Biden in the upcoming election. I don't think that it's therefore accurate to say I'm a "Biden supporter," which obviously connotes current support for the job he's done as President.


Respectfully, what you're saying is "yes, I support Joe".

LOL. So me saying he sucks and is unfit for office = "I support Joe."

OK.
BBW12OG
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Civilized said:

Gulfstream4 said:

Civilized said:

Gulfstream4 said:

Civilized said:

BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.


You could see this coming.
Care to dispute what she said? I know for you it is difficult to admit that the guy you support is an absolute failure as is the entire MARXIST PARTY you support but since you decided to comment why don't you weigh in on that?

You have another good little sheep on this thread maybe he will help you out.

If you think I support Biden, you haven't been paying attention.

And there's no reason to try to dispute what she said. It's her opinion, it has some validity, and she's entitled to it.

She's been well right of mainstream Dem politics for years. That's how she rolls and her leaving the party is an logical extension of her ideologies.


You voted for Biden, correct? That's called supporting him.

Really?

So you'd call someone a "Trump supporter" if they held their nose and voted for Trump when he was running against Hillary, and then soured on Trump by the end of his term to the extent that they wouldn't vote for him again?

Voting for an unproven candidate over one that had already proven himself to be unfit for office is a fairly pragmatic decision. I wasn't voting for the unfit guy and there was only one other guy to vote for. That's where I was with Biden.

As I've said many times on here, unfortunately for the American people Biden has now proven he's also unfit for office.

I won't be voting for Biden in the upcoming election. I don't think that it's therefore accurate to say I'm a "Biden supporter," which obviously connotes current support for the job he's done as President.


Respectfully, what you're saying is "yes, I support Joe".

LOL. So me saying he sucks and is unfit for office = "I support Joe."

OK.
You and your MARXIST ideology voted for him. You are responsible for the shape this country is in.

But at least your precious little "feewlings" aren't getting hurt by mean tweets....

Typical lefty... you voted for this now you don't want to take responsibility for it. Pathetic.
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
Werewolf
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Civilized and ultra-virtuous.....and I believe Saul Alinksy had a term for such a young person easily exploitable and naive idealist with the notion of being worldly, cultured and experienced.
Marco
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I thought Trump name was not to be mentioned!!This thread is about ole Joe!!!Lol!!!!
caryking
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jadawson said:

BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Civilized said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.


You could see this coming.
Truth be told, there should be a great deal more Americans making the same move. Today's version of the Democratic Party is completely lost and if it weren't for the "team" aspect of politics in this country, they would be swept from power in all branches of government.

In stark contrast to today's version of the Republican Party, which definitely has their **** together?

I don't see how anyone looks at either of the two parties right now and proclaims one or the other to be anything more than the lesser of two evils. Both parties are rudderless and lost.
You ignored the posts from myself and several others stating what the GOP's positions are on numerous policies.

You refused to respond to them. You are doing a masterful job at trying to deflect upon the topic at hand. That is the ****ty job YOUR President is doing.

When are you going to list the things YOUR party has accomplished since YOUR President took office?

I'll hang up and listen!


I'm not civilized nor am i fan of Biden. (I am not a fan of Trump either to be open about where im coming from). I can list plenty of things i think this administration has gotten right as well as plenty of things it has failed on.

For a few examples of things wrong:

- Immigration/border policy. While I dont necessarily think a literal wall is the answer, i dont like the way theyve handled border policy or deportations nor the lack of acknowledgement of there even being an issue with border control.

- Tax policy. While i'll be clear, i think there are definitely groups of individuals/corporations that need to pay more in actual tax (read: not raising the tax rate, but actually paying the rate on the books). I think that his tax initiatives do nothing more than further complicate an already insanely complicated system. What we need is closing of the dumb loopholes on the books so that the groups in question cant shelter themselves from tax they are required to pay by law, not open up potential for more complications and more loopholes. The rates dont need raising they need enforcement essentially.

Regarding tax loopholes (in which, I'm not a fan and would much prefer a flat tax or consumption tax), how do you feel about tax breaks like:

Mortgage interest deduction
Child tax credits

Those are tax loopholes like the ones you are probably referring to. Also, while you're at it, roughly half the country doesn't pay any taxes, in fact get money back. They have to be taking advantage of some tax loophole, right?

When people talk about loopholes, for the rich, they never (or seldom do) talk about the loopholes the middle class or poor get. Heck for that matter, those poor, get many of the tax dollars, turned into welfare payouts, in many forms. I'm not saying to turn off the faucet to the poor; rather, people, in general, receiving these welfare payments have become very greedy with the expectations of receiving those payments.

Also, tax loopholes are law and those people are paying taxes according to the written in lawful loopholes.
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
caryking
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Civilized said:

Gulfstream4 said:

Civilized said:

Gulfstream4 said:

Civilized said:

BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.


You could see this coming.
Care to dispute what she said? I know for you it is difficult to admit that the guy you support is an absolute failure as is the entire MARXIST PARTY you support but since you decided to comment why don't you weigh in on that?

You have another good little sheep on this thread maybe he will help you out.

If you think I support Biden, you haven't been paying attention.

And there's no reason to try to dispute what she said. It's her opinion, it has some validity, and she's entitled to it.

She's been well right of mainstream Dem politics for years. That's how she rolls and her leaving the party is an logical extension of her ideologies.


You voted for Biden, correct? That's called supporting him.

Really?

So you'd call someone a "Trump supporter" if they held their nose and voted for Trump when he was running against Hillary, and then soured on Trump by the end of his term to the extent that they wouldn't vote for him again?

Voting for an unproven candidate over one that had already proven himself to be unfit for office is a fairly pragmatic decision. I wasn't voting for the unfit guy and there was only one other guy to vote for. That's where I was with Biden.

As I've said many times on here, unfortunately for the American people Biden has now proven he's also unfit for office.

I won't be voting for Biden in the upcoming election. I don't think that it's therefore accurate to say I'm a "Biden supporter," which obviously connotes current support for the job he's done as President.


Respectfully, what you're saying is "yes, I support Joe".

LOL. So me saying he sucks and is unfit for office = "I support Joe."

OK.
Civ, if Biden won (and you know I am suspect on that), then yes, you through your support behind him. It sounds as if you have some type of disdain for both Trump and Biden.

I really question your words on this one. I think it was fairly clear that Biden was in poor condition as well as his intentions on policy. So, my opinion is that you supported those policy changes; otherwise, yes, you would have held your nose and voted for Trump again, assuming you voted for him in 2016. My guess is that you voted for Hillary…

It's ok to be confident in your policies, even if they do lend themselves to a Marxist ideology…. I think it's clear where my policies stand, so, be confident and happy with your vote. Don't judge the person; rather, judge the policies. If you do that, then you can go into a voting booth and hold your nose. That's why people say you support your voting decision.
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
BBW12OG
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Quote:

"- The climate/energy changes in the Inflation bill (huge misnomer of a name btw). The US has long needed to invest in better energy policies for our climate's future and for our countries foreign entanglements. Lots of incentives for american businesses to drive innovation in these sectors."
My reply was meant for JADAWSON...not sure why it replied to myself!

This statement is your opinion and I take it you support the Green New Deal and the fallacies that it is predicated on by this statement. If so you should do some research on sites that aren't run by the left and their talking MSM heads.

Have you watched the news coming out of Europe in the last 6 months or so?

Do you realize that Europe is facing a major energy shortage?

Do you realize that heating bills in Europe are going to be well over $1,000 U.S. Dollars a month this coming Winter?

You claim you prefer Sleepy Joe's handling of the energy sector over President Trump's so I will inform you on what President Trump accomplished and you can follow the link provided to fact check my statements.

  • For the first time in nearly 70 years, the United States has become a net energy exporter
  • The United States is now the number one producer of oil and natural gas in the world
  • Natural gas production reached a record high of 34.9 quads in 2019, following record-high production in both 2018 and 2017
  • The United States has been a net natural gas exporter for three consecutive years and has an export capacity of nearly 10 billion cubic feet per day
  • Withdrew from the unfair, one-sided Paris Climate Agreement
  • Canceled the previous administration's Clean Power Plan, and replaced it with the new Affordable Clean Energy rule
  • Approved the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipelines
  • Opened up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) in Alaska to oil and gas leasing
  • Repealed the last administration's Federal Coal Leasing Moratorium, which prohibited coal leasing on Federal lands
  • Reformed permitting rules to eliminate unnecessary bureaucracy and speed approval for mines
  • Fixed the New Source Review permitting program, which punished companies for upgrading or repairing coal power plants
  • Fixed the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) steam electric and coal ash rules
  • The average American family saved $2,500 a year in lower electric bills and lower prices at the gas pump
  • Signed legislation repealing the harmful Stream Protection Rule
  • Reduced the time to approve drilling permits on public lands by half, increasing permit applications to drill on public lands by 300 percent
  • Expedited approval of the NuStar's New Burgos pipeline to export American gasoline to Mexico
  • Streamlined liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminal permitting and allowed long-term LNG export authorizations to be extended through 2050
  • The United States is now among the top three LNG exporters in the world
  • Increased LNG exports five-fold since January 2017, reaching an all-time high in January 2020
  • LNG exports are expected to reduce the American trade deficit by over $10 billion
  • Granted more than 20 new long-term approvals for LNG exports to non-free trade agreement countries
  • The development of natural gas and LNG infrastructure in the United States is providing tens of thousands of jobs and has led to the investment of tens of billions of dollars in infrastructure
  • There are now 6 LNG export facilities operating in the United States, with 2 additional export projects under construction
  • The amount of nuclear energy production in 2019 was the highest on record, through a combination of increased capacity from power plant upgrades and shorter refueling and maintenance cycles
  • Prevented Russian energy coercion across Europe through various lines of effort, including the Partnership for Transatlantic Energy Cooperation, civil nuclear deals with Romania and Poland, and opposition to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline
  • Issued the Presidential Permit for the A2A railroad between Canada and Alaska, providing energy resources to emerging markets

Increased access to our country's abundant natural resources in order to achieve energy independence:

  • Renewable energy production and consumption both reached record highs in 2019
  • Enacted policies that helped double the amount of electricity generated by solar and helped increase the amount of wind generation by 32 percent from 2016 through 2019
  • Accelerated construction of energy infrastructure to ensure American energy producers can deliver their products to market
  • Cut red tape holding back the construction of new energy infrastructure
  • Authorized ethanol producers to sell E15 year-round and allowed higher-ethanol gasoline to be distributed from existing pumps at filling stations
  • Ensured greater transparency and certainty in the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) program
  • Negotiated leasing capacity in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to Australia, providing American taxpayers a return on this infrastructure investment
  • Signed an executive order directing Federal agencies to work together to diminish the capability of foreign adversaries to target our critical electric infrastructure
  • Reformed Section 401 of the Clean Water Act regulation to allow for the curation of interstate infrastructure
  • Resolved the OPEC oil crisis during COVID-19 by getting OPEC, Russia, and others to cut nearly 10 million barrels of production a day, stabilizing world oil prices
  • Directed the Department of Energy to use the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to mitigate the market volatility caused by COVID-19


Took strong action to protect the environment and ensure clean air and clean water:

  • Took action to protect vulnerable Americans from being exposed to lead and copper in drinking water and finalized a rule protecting children from lead-based paint hazards
  • Invested over $38 billion in clean water infrastructure
  • In 2019, America achieved the largest decline in carbon emissions of any country on Earth. Since withdrawing from the Paris Climate Accord, the United States has reduced carbon emissions more than any nation
  • American levels of particulate matterone of the main measures of air pollutionare approximately five times lower than the global average
  • Between 2017 and 2019, the air became 7 percent cleanerindicated by a steep drop in the combined emissions of criteria pollutants
  • Led the world in greenhouse gas emissions reductions, having cut energy-related CO2 emissions by 12 percent from 2005 to 2018while the rest of the world increased emissions by 24 percent
  • In FY 2019 the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) cleaned up more major pollution sites than any year in nearly two decades
  • The EPA delivered $300 million in Brownfields grants directly to communities most in need, including investment in 118 Opportunity Zones
  • Placed a moratorium on offshore drilling off the coasts of Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Florida
  • Restored public access to Federal land at Bears Ears National Monument and Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument
  • Recovered more endangered or threatened species than any other administration in its first term

https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/issues/energy-environment/

And these are FACTS. Not opinions.

As opposed to what Sleepy Joe has done to strangle American Energy Producers:

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/new-executive-orders-relating-to-energy-industry

  • ANWR Action
  • EO 13990 directs the Secretary of the Interior to place a temporary moratorium on all activities relating to the implementation of the Coastal Plain Oil and Gas Leasing Program in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge ("ANWR") due to the alleged legal deficiencies underlying the program, including the inadequacy of the environmental review required by the National Environmental Policy Act. EO 13990 directs the Secretary to review the program and conduct a new analysis of the environmental impacts of the program. EO 13990 also reinstated former President Obama's executive order that withdrew certain offshore areas in Arctic waters and the Bering Sea from oil and gas drilling and established the Northern Bering Sea Climate Resilience Area. These areas are no longer available for consideration for future oil or gas leasing, for purposes of exploration, development, or production.
  • The Bureau of Land Management conducted the first of what was supposed to be two lease sales directed under the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act on January 6, 2021, that offered areas of high-potential hydrocarbon lands for lease. The reinstatement of former President Obama's executive order in EO 13990 temporarily halts future lease sales in the ANWR authorized under the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act and other future consideration for oil and gas leasing in the ANWR.

  • Keystone XL Pipeline Permit Revocation
  • EO 13990 confirms the Biden administration's policy is to address climate change. In furtherance of this policy, EO 13990 revokes the Presidential permit issued to TransCanada Keystone Pipeline, L.P. for the construction and operation of the Keystone XL Pipeline. EO 13990 reiterates the conclusion reached by the Obama administration in 2015 that "[t]he Keystone XL pipeline would not serve the U.S. national interest." EO 13990's revocation of former-President Trump's Presidential permit aims to put the United States "in a position to exercise vigorous climate leadership" going forward. The full implications of the permit revocation are unknown at this time. The terms of the now-revoked Presidential permit require that, upon revocation, the pipeline must be removed at the permittee's own expense. A TC Energy (formerly TransCanada) news release states that the company is currently reviewing the implications of EO 13990 and assessing the company's options.

  • Regulatory Review
  • EO 13990 directs the heads of all agencies to review immediately all existing regulations, orders, guidance documents, policies, and other similar agency actions promulgated, issued, or adopted during the Trump administration that conflict with the Biden administration's public health, climate, and environmental policy objectives and to take action as appropriate and consistent with applicable law. EO 13990 further directs the heads of the relevant agencies to consider new rules that would suspend, revise, or rescind specific regulations enacted or proposed during the Trump administration regarding vehicle fuel economy and emissions standards, methane emissions standards, and appliance and building efficiency standards to ensure that such standards cut pollution. EO 13990 repeals many energy-related executive orders from the Trump administration that sought to advance natural resource development on federal lands.
  • Executive Order 14008
  • Tackling the Climate Crisis at Home and Abroad
  • EO 14008 establishes climate considerations as an essential element of U.S. foreign policy and national security.
  • Federal Mineral Leasing
  • EO 14008 directs the Secretary of the Interior to pause on granting new oil and natural gas leases on public lands or offshore waters to the extent possible under law, launch a rigorous review of all existing leasing and permitting practices related to fossil fuel development on federal lands, and identify steps that can be taken to double renewable energy production from offshore wind by 2030. EO 14008 further directs the Secretary of the Interior to consider whether to adjust royalties associated with natural resource production on federal lands. EO 14008 does not restrict energy development activities on Tribal lands.
  • Fossil Fuel Subsidies
  • EO 14008 directs federal agencies to eliminate fossil fuel subsidies as consistent with applicable law by 2022. EO 14008 does not identify or define what constitutes a subsidy under the order.
  • Federal Land Conservation
  • EO 14008 commits to the goal of conserving at least 30 percent of federal lands and waters by 2030. This initiative will involve a review process to identify which lands should be considered eligible for conservation.
  • Energy and Environmental Councils
  • EO 14008 also created a number of energy and environmental policy councils to advise President Biden regarding the future actions needed to pursue his administration's energy and environmental policy goals.
  • 2022 Winstead PC.National Law Review, Volume XI, Number 36

Now explain to me how Sleepy Joe is "helping to battle climate change." All he has done is embolden foreign powers such as Russia and strengthen their grip on energy dominance.

It's fine if you want to believe that climate change is going to end civilization in the next 12 years like the loonies on the left but for God's sake do not classify what this clown show of an administration has done is helping the climate.

Oh... since you seem to be such a staunch supporter of the climate gurus I'm sure Al "I invented the internet" Gore is one of your heroes...... LMAO...

This pretty much sums up the BS argument about "global warming..."









Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
BBW12OG
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The Sleepy Joe agenda...

Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
BBW12OG
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Here's some more factual information to discredit your climate theories.

Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
910wolf
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Civilized said:

Gulfstream4 said:

Civilized said:

BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.


You could see this coming.
Care to dispute what she said? I know for you it is difficult to admit that the guy you support is an absolute failure as is the entire MARXIST PARTY you support but since you decided to comment why don't you weigh in on that?

You have another good little sheep on this thread maybe he will help you out.

If you think I support Biden, you haven't been paying attention.

And there's no reason to try to dispute what she said. It's her opinion, it has some validity, and she's entitled to it.

She's been well right of mainstream Dem politics for years. That's how she rolls and her leaving the party is an logical extension of her ideologies.


You voted for Biden, correct? That's called supporting him.

Really?

So you'd call someone a "Trump supporter" if they held their nose and voted for Trump when he was running against Hillary, and then soured on Trump by the end of his term to the extent that they wouldn't vote for him again?

Voting for an unproven candidate over one that had already proven himself to be unfit for office is a fairly pragmatic decision. I wasn't voting for the unfit guy and there was only one other guy to vote for. That's where I was with Biden.

As I've said many times on here, unfortunately for the American people Biden has now proven he's also unfit for office.

I won't be voting for Biden in the upcoming election. I don't think that it's therefore accurate to say I'm a "Biden supporter," which obviously connotes current support for the job he's done as President.
Just curious, if you don't/didn't support Biden, who did you vote for in the 2020 primaries?

In a hypothetical Trump vs. Biden part 2 are you voting 3rd party?
jadawson
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caryking said:

jadawson said:

BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Civilized said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.


You could see this coming.
Truth be told, there should be a great deal more Americans making the same move. Today's version of the Democratic Party is completely lost and if it weren't for the "team" aspect of politics in this country, they would be swept from power in all branches of government.

In stark contrast to today's version of the Republican Party, which definitely has their **** together?

I don't see how anyone looks at either of the two parties right now and proclaims one or the other to be anything more than the lesser of two evils. Both parties are rudderless and lost.
You ignored the posts from myself and several others stating what the GOP's positions are on numerous policies.

You refused to respond to them. You are doing a masterful job at trying to deflect upon the topic at hand. That is the ****ty job YOUR President is doing.

When are you going to list the things YOUR party has accomplished since YOUR President took office?

I'll hang up and listen!


I'm not civilized nor am i fan of Biden. (I am not a fan of Trump either to be open about where im coming from). I can list plenty of things i think this administration has gotten right as well as plenty of things it has failed on.

For a few examples of things wrong:

- Immigration/border policy. While I dont necessarily think a literal wall is the answer, i dont like the way theyve handled border policy or deportations nor the lack of acknowledgement of there even being an issue with border control.

- Tax policy. While i'll be clear, i think there are definitely groups of individuals/corporations that need to pay more in actual tax (read: not raising the tax rate, but actually paying the rate on the books). I think that his tax initiatives do nothing more than further complicate an already insanely complicated system. What we need is closing of the dumb loopholes on the books so that the groups in question cant shelter themselves from tax they are required to pay by law, not open up potential for more complications and more loopholes. The rates dont need raising they need enforcement essentially.

Regarding tax loopholes (in which, I'm not a fan and would much prefer a flat tax or consumption tax), how do you feel about tax breaks like:

Mortgage interest deduction
Child tax credits

Those are tax loopholes like the ones you are probably referring to. Also, while you're at it, roughly half the country doesn't pay any taxes, in fact get money back. They have to be taking advantage of some tax loophole, right?

When people talk about loopholes, for the rich, they never (or seldom do) talk about the loopholes the middle class or poor get. Heck for that matter, those poor, get many of the tax dollars, turned into welfare payouts, in many forms. I'm not saying to turn off the faucet to the poor; rather, people, in general, receiving these welfare payments have become very greedy with the expectations of receiving those payments.

Also, tax loopholes are law and those people are paying taxes according to the written in lawful loopholes.

mortgage interest, child tax credits, EITC are all things that have been on the books for years and aren't all that complicated.

I'm talking about additional things that the lower income brackets are going to be far less likely to be able to apply themselves, and allowing wealthier individuals to apply extra tax breaks. Like placing assets within Trusts to avoid estate tax yet still getting inherited cost basis step up applied, the alternative minimum tax being lowered, capital gains tax being far lower than federal income tax, when the wealthiest of individuals have what the IRS considers income only as a small portion of their earnings each year.

Im aware of the common quote that half the country doesn't pay tax, and its very true but it does look way worse without context applied to it. A university study found that only 11% of people between the ages of 25-55 are in that group not paying any tax, of that 11%, 60% will be paying income tax within 3 years. The vast majority of people who pay no tax are retirees/elderly and the youngest workers who are far more likely to be engaged in work that is the lowest salaries of their career. They dont pay tax because of things like the EITC, which was championed and strengthened by Reagan in the 80's and he called the best anti poverty and job creation tool congress had passed in his tenure.

I never meant to suggest that people are doing anything illegal (though some things may be grey areas that the uber wealthy get away with, off shore tax havens etc.,). These are lawful measures that they are just benefitting from. Im suggesting the loopholes be closed or altered, not the people be punished for using them.
jadawson
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BBW12OG said:

Quote:

"- The climate/energy changes in the Inflation bill (huge misnomer of a name btw). The US has long needed to invest in better energy policies for our climate's future and for our countries foreign entanglements. Lots of incentives for american businesses to drive innovation in these sectors."
My reply was meant for JADAWSON...not sure why it replied to myself!
brother this is a lot to go through.... I'll address as much as i can. Cutting out above so this post isn't a full page

Quote:

Have you watched the news coming out of Europe in the last 6 months or so?

Do you realize that Europe is facing a major energy shortage?

Do you realize that heating bills in Europe are going to be well over $1,000 U.S. Dollars a month this coming Winter?
The vast, vast majority of their crisis is due to the russian conflict and Russia not supplying Europe with the energy they expected. It has little to nothing to do with their green/clean energy policies.

Quote:

    • For the first time in nearly 70 years, the United States has become a net energy exporter
    • The United States is now the number one producer of oil and natural gas in the world
    • Natural gas production reached a record high of 34.9 quads in 2019, following record-high production in both 2018 and 2017
    • The United States has been a net natural gas exporter for three consecutive years and has an export capacity of nearly 10 billion cubic feet per day

Wasn't the point of all the laws passed to open up more ways to produce our own fuel resources so that we could achieve more energy independence? Why are we still importing 8.47 million barrels per day when we are producing enough to still export 8.54 million barrels per day?

Quote:

  • Repealed the last administration's Federal Coal Leasing Moratorium, which prohibited coal leasing on Federal lands
  • Reformed permitting rules to eliminate unnecessary bureaucracy and speed approval for mine
  • Fixed the New Source Review permitting program, which punished companies for upgrading or repairing coal power plants

Is this supposed to be a positive? Coal is a horrible pollutive to the air and harmful to the workers way to get electricity and not very efficient to boot. Not to mention that US coal usage still continued to decline and as of 2020 was at its lowest since 1905. Also, this moratorium has been reinstated because a federal judge found the data used to justify ending the moratorium was faulty.

I do really like his nuclear energy efforts you cited elsewhere.

Quote:

Took strong action to protect the environment and ensure clean air and clean water:
I really like this whole section. Like i said in my OP, i want more efforts to reduce emissions and ensure clean air and water.

Quote:

As opposed to what Sleepy Joe has done to strangle American Energy Producers:

Much of this section is due to rules in the acts that were passed being in conflict with existing legislation other than the Keystone pipeline. Not to mention the fact that the director of the Bureau of Land Management under Trump was illegally serving in the post for the entire term which probably prompted a review of pretty much everything that was passed under his watch.

Quote:

Now explain to me how Sleepy Joe is "helping to battle climate change." All he has done is embolden foreign powers such as Russia and strengthen their grip on energy dominance.

It's fine if you want to believe that climate change is going to end civilization in the next 12 years like the loonies on the left but for God's sake do not classify what this clown show of an administration has done is helping the climate.
I did already, with the new act that was passed. None of what you posted was in regards to that.

Also, nothing that you posted would possibly suggest that Biden was doing anything to harm the climate. If you want to argue he's hurting our energy independence that makes complete sense based on what you posted, but it literally all has to do with repealing acts to allow more of xyz on federal lands or pipelines or drilling leases etc., How does that hurt the environment?

Not going to get into your sidebar at the end there

jadawson
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BBW12OG said:

Here's some more factual information to discredit your climate theories.


This could be exhibit A on the Wiki page for "Lies, damn lies, and statistics"

Viewing something as variable and long term as temperature on an 8 year scale is so purposefully misleading and cropped at that point to avoid having to look at a larger trend. Between 2001-2008, guess what, the there was a "pause". Between 2005-2011 the temp dropped! The larger trend is still going up however because short term variance is always expected, and when referring to global temperature slowly rising, an 8 year span is exceedingly small.

https://imgur.com/a/e3DtzR1
BBW12OG
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Now do this one....



I appreciate your responses. However, you never actually disputed any of the facts. You did address them. But, you never provided anything other than an opinion.

You said something about us "importing" oil as we were "exporting" oil. Well, of course we did. We have standing agreements with countries that we will purchase a minimum amount of oil from them annually in order to maintain the working partnership.

But, as your obviously here with a climate agenda you probably know that. And spinning it the way you did confirms the theory I have that you regurgitate the "Green New Deal" with a feverish passion.

Looking forward to your comments on Al "I Invented the Internet" Gore.
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
jadawson
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BBW12OG said:

Now do this one....



I appreciate your responses. However, you never actually disputed any of the facts. You did address them. But, you never provided anything other than an opinion.

You said something about us "importing" oil as we were "exporting" oil. Well, of course we did. We have standing agreements with countries that we will purchase a minimum amount of oil from them annually in order to maintain the working partnership.

But, as your obviously here with a climate agenda you probably know that. And spinning it the way you did confirms the theory I have that you regurgitate the "Green New Deal" with a feverish passion.

Looking forward to your comments on Al "I Invented the Internet" Gore.

I wouldnt say im approaching anything with a feverish passion, i do generally enjoy having conversations with people, as long as they dont get nasty (which politics seems to do unfortunately). We're all pack fans here at the end of the day, its good to remember that sometimes.

To your video.

I'll start by saying i dont like Gore and I dont think hes a good face for the climate change movement. He is not a scientist nor does he completely understand or know how to represent much of the science. A scientist should be the face of the movement.

That being said, maybe i missed something but i didn't hear Gore once say in that video about a 10 year doomsday prediction. Was it maybe prior to the video edit starting? Limbaugh stated "hollywood acting community" were predicting it, which i dont doubt, hollywood types are holier than thou morons who just want a cause to champion to make themselves fell good. But i dont see that as implying Gore said it which the tweet implies. The only timeline he gave was "a few decades".

And i dont really get how the Limbaugh part is supposed to own Gore, he is simply a better debater when unmoderated. Gore said "hole in ozone layer, which now could appear over the US", Limbaugh responded later with "there is no hole over the united states". Its presented as an argument against gore but it doesnt actually say anything about the crux of gore's statement which is set with a future lens. Or later Limbaugh says "there are as many scientists on the other side of the argument". That's a statement he can't back up and Gore cant argue against. Its a nonsense debate tactic to win because it cant be directly countered on air other than saying that's not true which turns it into a thing that could have doubt when it really doesn't. A quick google found a published article in a scientific publication that there is greater than a 99% consensus on human caused climate change in peer reviewed scientific literature.

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac2966

I dont necessarily disagree with Limbaugh's assertion that everything seems to be a "Crisis" and is presented as such, sometimes with bad intentions (grifting for money etc.,). But he does nothing to assert why this one is a false crisis other than using the above debate tactics and stating his opinion that the earths ecosystem isn't fragile.
caryking
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jadawson said:

caryking said:

jadawson said:

BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Civilized said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.


You could see this coming.
Truth be told, there should be a great deal more Americans making the same move. Today's version of the Democratic Party is completely lost and if it weren't for the "team" aspect of politics in this country, they would be swept from power in all branches of government.

In stark contrast to today's version of the Republican Party, which definitely has their **** together?

I don't see how anyone looks at either of the two parties right now and proclaims one or the other to be anything more than the lesser of two evils. Both parties are rudderless and lost.
You ignored the posts from myself and several others stating what the GOP's positions are on numerous policies.

You refused to respond to them. You are doing a masterful job at trying to deflect upon the topic at hand. That is the ****ty job YOUR President is doing.

When are you going to list the things YOUR party has accomplished since YOUR President took office?

I'll hang up and listen!


I'm not civilized nor am i fan of Biden. (I am not a fan of Trump either to be open about where im coming from). I can list plenty of things i think this administration has gotten right as well as plenty of things it has failed on.

For a few examples of things wrong:

- Immigration/border policy. While I dont necessarily think a literal wall is the answer, i dont like the way theyve handled border policy or deportations nor the lack of acknowledgement of there even being an issue with border control.

- Tax policy. While i'll be clear, i think there are definitely groups of individuals/corporations that need to pay more in actual tax (read: not raising the tax rate, but actually paying the rate on the books). I think that his tax initiatives do nothing more than further complicate an already insanely complicated system. What we need is closing of the dumb loopholes on the books so that the groups in question cant shelter themselves from tax they are required to pay by law, not open up potential for more complications and more loopholes. The rates dont need raising they need enforcement essentially.

Regarding tax loopholes (in which, I'm not a fan and would much prefer a flat tax or consumption tax), how do you feel about tax breaks like:

Mortgage interest deduction
Child tax credits

Those are tax loopholes like the ones you are probably referring to. Also, while you're at it, roughly half the country doesn't pay any taxes, in fact get money back. They have to be taking advantage of some tax loophole, right?

When people talk about loopholes, for the rich, they never (or seldom do) talk about the loopholes the middle class or poor get. Heck for that matter, those poor, get many of the tax dollars, turned into welfare payouts, in many forms. I'm not saying to turn off the faucet to the poor; rather, people, in general, receiving these welfare payments have become very greedy with the expectations of receiving those payments.

Also, tax loopholes are law and those people are paying taxes according to the written in lawful loopholes.

mortgage interest, child tax credits, EITC are all things that have been on the books for years and aren't all that complicated.

I'm talking about additional things that the lower income brackets are going to be far less likely to be able to apply themselves, and allowing wealthier individuals to apply extra tax breaks. Like placing assets within Trusts to avoid estate tax yet still getting inherited cost basis step up applied, the alternative minimum tax being lowered, capital gains tax being far lower than federal income tax, when the wealthiest of individuals have what the IRS considers income only as a small portion of their earnings each year.

Im aware of the common quote that half the country doesn't pay tax, and its very true but it does look way worse without context applied to it. A university study found that only 11% of people between the ages of 25-55 are in that group not paying any tax, of that 11%, 60% will be paying income tax within 3 years. The vast majority of people who pay no tax are retirees/elderly and the youngest workers who are far more likely to be engaged in work that is the lowest salaries of their career. They dont pay tax because of things like the EITC, which was championed and strengthened by Reagan in the 80's and he called the best anti poverty and job creation tool congress had passed in his tenure.

I never meant to suggest that people are doing anything illegal (though some things may be grey areas that the uber wealthy get away with, off shore tax havens etc.,). These are lawful measures that they are just benefitting from. Im suggesting the loopholes be closed or altered, not the people be punished for using them.
Capital Gains shouldn't be taxed. That is essentially a double taxation. Now, if you want to talk about Carried interest, then I can be all over that. I've been hit with Alternative Minimum Tax frequently and I'm far from wealthy. It's a joke! All those taxes you say have been on the books are "STILL" tax loopholes anyway you look at it.

BTW, the study can create any result you want. At the end of the day, half of the people aren't paying taxes! The only way to solve this issue is to get all money above board. That, in my opinion, is a national sales tax and repeal the 16th amendment.
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
packofwolves
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Biden asking for a political favor, say it ain't so. Isn't this something the Dems would impeach a President for?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11305219/Biden-administration-urged-Saudi-Arabia-wait-midterms-cut-oil-production.html
BBW12OG
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packofwolves said:

Biden asking for a political favor, say it ain't so. Isn't this something the Dems would impeach a President for?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11305219/Biden-administration-urged-Saudi-Arabia-wait-midterms-cut-oil-production.html

"Quid Pro Quo.."

That is exactly what that is. But.... ask the lefties.... it only matters if it is a member of the GOP.....

HYPOCRITES.
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
jadawson
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caryking said:

jadawson said:

caryking said:

jadawson said:

BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Civilized said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.


You could see this coming.
Truth be told, there should be a great deal more Americans making the same move. Today's version of the Democratic Party is completely lost and if it weren't for the "team" aspect of politics in this country, they would be swept from power in all branches of government.

In stark contrast to today's version of the Republican Party, which definitely has their **** together?

I don't see how anyone looks at either of the two parties right now and proclaims one or the other to be anything more than the lesser of two evils. Both parties are rudderless and lost.
You ignored the posts from myself and several others stating what the GOP's positions are on numerous policies.

You refused to respond to them. You are doing a masterful job at trying to deflect upon the topic at hand. That is the ****ty job YOUR President is doing.

When are you going to list the things YOUR party has accomplished since YOUR President took office?

I'll hang up and listen!


I'm not civilized nor am i fan of Biden. (I am not a fan of Trump either to be open about where im coming from). I can list plenty of things i think this administration has gotten right as well as plenty of things it has failed on.

For a few examples of things wrong:

- Immigration/border policy. While I dont necessarily think a literal wall is the answer, i dont like the way theyve handled border policy or deportations nor the lack of acknowledgement of there even being an issue with border control.

- Tax policy. While i'll be clear, i think there are definitely groups of individuals/corporations that need to pay more in actual tax (read: not raising the tax rate, but actually paying the rate on the books). I think that his tax initiatives do nothing more than further complicate an already insanely complicated system. What we need is closing of the dumb loopholes on the books so that the groups in question cant shelter themselves from tax they are required to pay by law, not open up potential for more complications and more loopholes. The rates dont need raising they need enforcement essentially.

Regarding tax loopholes (in which, I'm not a fan and would much prefer a flat tax or consumption tax), how do you feel about tax breaks like:

Mortgage interest deduction
Child tax credits

Those are tax loopholes like the ones you are probably referring to. Also, while you're at it, roughly half the country doesn't pay any taxes, in fact get money back. They have to be taking advantage of some tax loophole, right?

When people talk about loopholes, for the rich, they never (or seldom do) talk about the loopholes the middle class or poor get. Heck for that matter, those poor, get many of the tax dollars, turned into welfare payouts, in many forms. I'm not saying to turn off the faucet to the poor; rather, people, in general, receiving these welfare payments have become very greedy with the expectations of receiving those payments.

Also, tax loopholes are law and those people are paying taxes according to the written in lawful loopholes.

mortgage interest, child tax credits, EITC are all things that have been on the books for years and aren't all that complicated.

I'm talking about additional things that the lower income brackets are going to be far less likely to be able to apply themselves, and allowing wealthier individuals to apply extra tax breaks. Like placing assets within Trusts to avoid estate tax yet still getting inherited cost basis step up applied, the alternative minimum tax being lowered, capital gains tax being far lower than federal income tax, when the wealthiest of individuals have what the IRS considers income only as a small portion of their earnings each year.

Im aware of the common quote that half the country doesn't pay tax, and its very true but it does look way worse without context applied to it. A university study found that only 11% of people between the ages of 25-55 are in that group not paying any tax, of that 11%, 60% will be paying income tax within 3 years. The vast majority of people who pay no tax are retirees/elderly and the youngest workers who are far more likely to be engaged in work that is the lowest salaries of their career. They dont pay tax because of things like the EITC, which was championed and strengthened by Reagan in the 80's and he called the best anti poverty and job creation tool congress had passed in his tenure.

I never meant to suggest that people are doing anything illegal (though some things may be grey areas that the uber wealthy get away with, off shore tax havens etc.,). These are lawful measures that they are just benefitting from. Im suggesting the loopholes be closed or altered, not the people be punished for using them.
Capital Gains shouldn't be taxed. That is essentially a double taxation. Now, if you want to talk about Carried interest, then I can be all over that. I've been hit with Alternative Minimum Tax frequently and I'm far from wealthy. It's a joke! All those taxes you say have been on the books are "STILL" tax loopholes anyway you look at it.

BTW, the study can create any result you want. At the end of the day, half of the people aren't paying taxes! The only way to solve this issue is to get all money above board. That, in my opinion, is a national sales tax and repeal the 16th amendment.

Capital gains are taxed to incentivize people reinvesting funds in the economy rather than sitting on them. Velocity of money is an ideal goal for a capitalist economy. Especially when invested funds also receive step downs in rates for longer term investments (10+ years i believe) plus a step up in basis for inherited returns.

If you're far from wealthy and hit with the AMT you are a rare case. Since 2017 changes by Trump very, very few people are hit by the AMT who make less than 7 figures per year https://imgur.com/a/milgV52

While its true anything can be studied, as long as an honest hypothesis is presented (which it would be in a scientific journal) it should be clear what question was being asked to derive such an answer. Half of people aren't paying tax, but why on earth would you expect an 85 year old retired person to be paying income tax? Surely adjusting for working age and employment status would be a good starting point?

I haven't looked into the national salex tax debate. I'll look into that in the near future, do you have any good starting point resources?

For the 16th amendment. I dont agree that it should be repealed. Surely even people that think the federal government is obscenely bloated etc., can agree that it does serve some good functions. I'm fairly certain that individual income tax is the biggest income for the government. If we want to maintain a standing military of might at the very least surely some level of income tax is advisable.

BBW12OG
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And this wasn't the worse one of the speech..... wow...just wow...

Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
Gulfstream4
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^embarrassing
caryking
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jadawson said:

caryking said:

jadawson said:

caryking said:

jadawson said:

BBW12OG said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Civilized said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.


You could see this coming.
Truth be told, there should be a great deal more Americans making the same move. Today's version of the Democratic Party is completely lost and if it weren't for the "team" aspect of politics in this country, they would be swept from power in all branches of government.

In stark contrast to today's version of the Republican Party, which definitely has their **** together?

I don't see how anyone looks at either of the two parties right now and proclaims one or the other to be anything more than the lesser of two evils. Both parties are rudderless and lost.
You ignored the posts from myself and several others stating what the GOP's positions are on numerous policies.

You refused to respond to them. You are doing a masterful job at trying to deflect upon the topic at hand. That is the ****ty job YOUR President is doing.

When are you going to list the things YOUR party has accomplished since YOUR President took office?

I'll hang up and listen!


I'm not civilized nor am i fan of Biden. (I am not a fan of Trump either to be open about where im coming from). I can list plenty of things i think this administration has gotten right as well as plenty of things it has failed on.

For a few examples of things wrong:

- Immigration/border policy. While I dont necessarily think a literal wall is the answer, i dont like the way theyve handled border policy or deportations nor the lack of acknowledgement of there even being an issue with border control.

- Tax policy. While i'll be clear, i think there are definitely groups of individuals/corporations that need to pay more in actual tax (read: not raising the tax rate, but actually paying the rate on the books). I think that his tax initiatives do nothing more than further complicate an already insanely complicated system. What we need is closing of the dumb loopholes on the books so that the groups in question cant shelter themselves from tax they are required to pay by law, not open up potential for more complications and more loopholes. The rates dont need raising they need enforcement essentially.

Regarding tax loopholes (in which, I'm not a fan and would much prefer a flat tax or consumption tax), how do you feel about tax breaks like:

Mortgage interest deduction
Child tax credits

Those are tax loopholes like the ones you are probably referring to. Also, while you're at it, roughly half the country doesn't pay any taxes, in fact get money back. They have to be taking advantage of some tax loophole, right?

When people talk about loopholes, for the rich, they never (or seldom do) talk about the loopholes the middle class or poor get. Heck for that matter, those poor, get many of the tax dollars, turned into welfare payouts, in many forms. I'm not saying to turn off the faucet to the poor; rather, people, in general, receiving these welfare payments have become very greedy with the expectations of receiving those payments.

Also, tax loopholes are law and those people are paying taxes according to the written in lawful loopholes.

mortgage interest, child tax credits, EITC are all things that have been on the books for years and aren't all that complicated.

I'm talking about additional things that the lower income brackets are going to be far less likely to be able to apply themselves, and allowing wealthier individuals to apply extra tax breaks. Like placing assets within Trusts to avoid estate tax yet still getting inherited cost basis step up applied, the alternative minimum tax being lowered, capital gains tax being far lower than federal income tax, when the wealthiest of individuals have what the IRS considers income only as a small portion of their earnings each year.

Im aware of the common quote that half the country doesn't pay tax, and its very true but it does look way worse without context applied to it. A university study found that only 11% of people between the ages of 25-55 are in that group not paying any tax, of that 11%, 60% will be paying income tax within 3 years. The vast majority of people who pay no tax are retirees/elderly and the youngest workers who are far more likely to be engaged in work that is the lowest salaries of their career. They dont pay tax because of things like the EITC, which was championed and strengthened by Reagan in the 80's and he called the best anti poverty and job creation tool congress had passed in his tenure.

I never meant to suggest that people are doing anything illegal (though some things may be grey areas that the uber wealthy get away with, off shore tax havens etc.,). These are lawful measures that they are just benefitting from. Im suggesting the loopholes be closed or altered, not the people be punished for using them.
Capital Gains shouldn't be taxed. That is essentially a double taxation. Now, if you want to talk about Carried interest, then I can be all over that. I've been hit with Alternative Minimum Tax frequently and I'm far from wealthy. It's a joke! All those taxes you say have been on the books are "STILL" tax loopholes anyway you look at it.

BTW, the study can create any result you want. At the end of the day, half of the people aren't paying taxes! The only way to solve this issue is to get all money above board. That, in my opinion, is a national sales tax and repeal the 16th amendment.

Capital gains are taxed to incentivize people reinvesting funds in the economy rather than sitting on them. Velocity of money is an ideal goal for a capitalist economy. Especially when invested funds also receive step downs in rates for longer term investments (10+ years i believe) plus a step up in basis for inherited returns.

If you're far from wealthy and hit with the AMT you are a rare case. Since 2017 changes by Trump very, very few people are hit by the AMT who make less than 7 figures per year https://imgur.com/a/milgV52

While its true anything can be studied, as long as an honest hypothesis is presented (which it would be in a scientific journal) it should be clear what question was being asked to derive such an answer. Half of people aren't paying tax, but why on earth would you expect an 85 year old retired person to be paying income tax? Surely adjusting for working age and employment status would be a good starting point?

I haven't looked into the national salex tax debate. I'll look into that in the near future, do you have any good starting point resources?

For the 16th amendment. I dont agree that it should be repealed. Surely even people that think the federal government is obscenely bloated etc., can agree that it does serve some good functions. I'm fairly certain that individual income tax is the biggest income for the government. If we want to maintain a standing military of might at the very least surely some level of income tax is advisable.


I just sold a piece of property. My brother is my partner in real estate investments. My return on this piece is $275K. I'm putting aside 75K for capital gains tax. That's more in taxes than 50% of all American tax payers combined. How is that fair?

Now, I had post tax Capital buy this piece of property. Now, the gains, from my post tax Capital are being taxed at an amount that is stupid!

Regarding the 16th Amendment, it is one of the most unconstitutional amendment's there is. I suggest understanding how this system, we have, was constructed; then, look at how taxes were collected, prior to the 16th amendment, then you will understand. It was another example of how Big Government ideology destroyed the fabric of our founding.

Regarding my taxes, I'm always going to ***** and complain until all US citizens are paying a minimum of 10% in taxes. If you live here and taking advantage of US services, then you must pay, whether you like the services or not.
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
Werewolf
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Gulfstream4 said:

^embarrassing
Not sure if I've seen whether you voted for Biden. Did you?

I believe The Sieve and the Hoke did.
TheStorm
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Here's another newer Biden doozy...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-says-beau-lost-life-iraq-during-colorado-speech
Packchem91
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TheStorm said:

Here's another newer Biden doozy...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-says-beau-lost-life-iraq-during-colorado-speech
So then you wonder.....is that just a lie assuming no one would fact check him? Or is it that he really is losing his mental capacity at a rate that is alarming for a US POTUS?

Either is disturbing...though it would be sympathy for the latter (sympathy, but still suggest a person who is at that state should not have a position of power)
PackFansXL
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https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-new-york-times-bidens-a-serial-liar-but-trump/

Quote:

It's nice to be a Democrat. Here's the New York Times' description of President Biden's relentless, eight-decade-long habit of lying about himself, taken from a piece titled, "Biden, Storyteller in Chief, Spins Yarns That Often Unravel," and subtitled, "President Biden has been unable to break himself of the habit of embellishing narratives to weave a political identity":
Quote:

For more than four decades, Mr. Biden has embraced storytelling as a way of connecting with his audience, often emphasizing the truth of his account by adding, "Not a joke!" in the middle of a story. But Mr. Biden's folksiness can veer into folklore, with dates that don't quite add up and details that are exaggerated or wrong, the factual edges shaved off to make them more powerful for audiences.

TheStorm
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Packchem91 said:

TheStorm said:

Here's another newer Biden doozy...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-says-beau-lost-life-iraq-during-colorado-speech
So then you wonder.....is that just a lie assuming no one would fact check him? Or is it that he really is losing his mental capacity at a rate that is alarming for a US POTUS?

Either is disturbing...though it would be sympathy for the latter (sympathy, but still suggest a person who is at that state should not have a position of power)
Biden's Presidency is the ultimate re-enactment of "Weekend at Bernie's"... he makes absolutely none of the decisions on anything... whoever the group of people that are the "real president" (and I use that term lightly here) just roll him out to **** up another speech a couple times a week while they decide everything.

He probably doesn't even get to talk (or attend even) an actual Cabinet Meeting, if they still have those things in this administration.

I mean, c'mon Chem?!? You gotta admit that this is the ultimate "Weekend at Bernie's", right? Normally I'd laugh my ass off... but this is actually happening in the United States of America... the shining example to the rest of the world of "democracy"!
jadawson
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caryking said:

jadawson said:




Capital gains are taxed to incentivize people reinvesting funds in the economy rather than sitting on them. Velocity of money is an ideal goal for a capitalist economy. Especially when invested funds also receive step downs in rates for longer term investments (10+ years i believe) plus a step up in basis for inherited returns.

If you're far from wealthy and hit with the AMT you are a rare case. Since 2017 changes by Trump very, very few people are hit by the AMT who make less than 7 figures per year https://imgur.com/a/milgV52

While its true anything can be studied, as long as an honest hypothesis is presented (which it would be in a scientific journal) it should be clear what question was being asked to derive such an answer. Half of people aren't paying tax, but why on earth would you expect an 85 year old retired person to be paying income tax? Surely adjusting for working age and employment status would be a good starting point?

I haven't looked into the national salex tax debate. I'll look into that in the near future, do you have any good starting point resources?

For the 16th amendment. I dont agree that it should be repealed. Surely even people that think the federal government is obscenely bloated etc., can agree that it does serve some good functions. I'm fairly certain that individual income tax is the biggest income for the government. If we want to maintain a standing military of might at the very least surely some level of income tax is advisable.


I just sold a piece of property. My brother is my partner in real estate investments. My return on this piece is $275K. I'm putting aside 75K for capital gains tax. That's more in taxes than 50% of all American tax payers combined. How is that fair?

Now, I had post tax Capital buy this piece of property. Now, the gains, from my post tax Capital are being taxed at an amount that is stupid!

Regarding the 16th Amendment, it is one of the most unconstitutional amendment's there is. I suggest understanding how this system, we have, was constructed; then, look at how taxes were collected, prior to the 16th amendment, then you will understand. It was another example of how Big Government ideology destroyed the fabric of our founding.

Regarding my taxes, I'm always going to ***** and complain until all US citizens are paying a minimum of 10% in taxes. If you live here and taking advantage of US services, then you must pay, whether you like the services or not.

We're veering off from the intent of the post i think, but ive enjoyed this conversation.

I've never been in a position to have real estate investments, so unfortunately i dont have any first hand experience with your situation. I think its a 20%(?) tax on real estate gains, plus at that amount running into the NIIT?

I mean you can say "gains from my post tax capital" and you could also say "income". Gains are being taxed at a lower value than income tax bracket you are in. Thats the incentive for people to continue to invest in things that benefit the economy, allowing them to make passive income that is taxed at a lower rate than normal income.

regarding the 16th amendment, this is just an ideological difference between us. Society now looks nothing like it did in 1913 when the 16th amendment was passed, and 1913 looked nothing like it did in 1787-89 when the constitution was being written and ratified. I believe the founders understood this and this is why they allowed for a majority of the states to amend the constitution in the future. Given that, i dont see how amending the constitution to look different than it used to destroys the fabric of our founding.

For the last bit, that is never going to happen. Flat taxes, even in the very few countries they currently exist in, (almost entirely the former soviet bloc) almost universally have their own version of a standard deduction and/or EITC where people who make less than a certain amount do not pay or pay far less. Even when people like Paul Ryan or Herman Cain had a flat tax on their platform during primaries, they included features like this. People who make below what most would consider to be the poverty line are not going to be taxed like you want them to be, even the staunchest of conservative politicians understand that is a non starter.
Gulfstream4
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Werewolf said:

Gulfstream4 said:

^embarrassing
Not sure if I've seen whether you voted for Biden. Did you?

I believe The Sieve and the Hoke did.


Hell no
Gulfstream4
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TheStorm said:

Packchem91 said:

TheStorm said:

Here's another newer Biden doozy...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-says-beau-lost-life-iraq-during-colorado-speech
So then you wonder.....is that just a lie assuming no one would fact check him? Or is it that he really is losing his mental capacity at a rate that is alarming for a US POTUS?

Either is disturbing...though it would be sympathy for the latter (sympathy, but still suggest a person who is at that state should not have a position of power)
Biden's Presidency is the ultimate re-enactment of "Weekend at Bernie's"... he makes absolutely none of the decisions on anything... whoever the group of people that are the "real president" (and I use that term lightly here) just roll him out to **** up another speech a couple times a week while they decide everything.

He probably doesn't even get to talk (or attend even) an actual Cabinet Meeting, if they still have those things in this administration.

I mean, c'mon Chem?!? You gotta admit that this is the ultimate "Weekend at Bernie's", right? Normally I'd laugh my ass off... but this is actually happening in the United States of America... the shining example to the rest of the world of "democracy"!


Special thanks to all the democrats…errr, "independents" and never Trumpers that went to the polls and actually voted for this.

caryking
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jadawson said:

caryking said:

jadawson said:




Capital gains are taxed to incentivize people reinvesting funds in the economy rather than sitting on them. Velocity of money is an ideal goal for a capitalist economy. Especially when invested funds also receive step downs in rates for longer term investments (10+ years i believe) plus a step up in basis for inherited returns.

If you're far from wealthy and hit with the AMT you are a rare case. Since 2017 changes by Trump very, very few people are hit by the AMT who make less than 7 figures per year https://imgur.com/a/milgV52

While its true anything can be studied, as long as an honest hypothesis is presented (which it would be in a scientific journal) it should be clear what question was being asked to derive such an answer. Half of people aren't paying tax, but why on earth would you expect an 85 year old retired person to be paying income tax? Surely adjusting for working age and employment status would be a good starting point?

I haven't looked into the national salex tax debate. I'll look into that in the near future, do you have any good starting point resources?

For the 16th amendment. I dont agree that it should be repealed. Surely even people that think the federal government is obscenely bloated etc., can agree that it does serve some good functions. I'm fairly certain that individual income tax is the biggest income for the government. If we want to maintain a standing military of might at the very least surely some level of income tax is advisable.


I just sold a piece of property. My brother is my partner in real estate investments. My return on this piece is $275K. I'm putting aside 75K for capital gains tax. That's more in taxes than 50% of all American tax payers combined. How is that fair?

Now, I had post tax Capital buy this piece of property. Now, the gains, from my post tax Capital are being taxed at an amount that is stupid!

Regarding the 16th Amendment, it is one of the most unconstitutional amendment's there is. I suggest understanding how this system, we have, was constructed; then, look at how taxes were collected, prior to the 16th amendment, then you will understand. It was another example of how Big Government ideology destroyed the fabric of our founding.

Regarding my taxes, I'm always going to ***** and complain until all US citizens are paying a minimum of 10% in taxes. If you live here and taking advantage of US services, then you must pay, whether you like the services or not.

We're veering off from the intent of the post i think, but ive enjoyed this conversation.

I've never been in a position to have real estate investments, so unfortunately i dont have any first hand experience with your situation. I think its a 20%(?) tax on real estate gains, plus at that amount running into the NIIT?

I mean you can say "gains from my post tax capital" and you could also say "income". Gains are being taxed at a lower value than income tax bracket you are in. Thats the incentive for people to continue to invest in things that benefit the economy, allowing them to make passive income that is taxed at a lower rate than normal income.

regarding the 16th amendment, this is just an ideological difference between us. Society now looks nothing like it did in 1913 when the 16th amendment was passed, and 1913 looked nothing like it did in 1787-89 when the constitution was being written and ratified. I believe the founders understood this and this is why they allowed for a majority of the states to amend the constitution in the future. Given that, i dont see how amending the constitution to look different than it used to destroys the fabric of our founding.

For the last bit, that is never going to happen. Flat taxes, even in the very few countries they currently exist in, (almost entirely the former soviet bloc) almost universally have their own version of a standard deduction and/or EITC where people who make less than a certain amount do not pay or pay far less. Even when people like Paul Ryan or Herman Cain had a flat tax on their platform during primaries, they included features like this. People who make below what most would consider to be the poverty line are not going to be taxed like you want them to be, even the staunchest of conservative politicians understand that is a non starter.


No offense to you; however, you admitted not being in a situation where capital is used, like I have. That's just one real estate investment. I have other scenarios that might blow your mind, and if in my position, might see things differently.

That said, most people never realize the fruits of others labor because, well, that can be a myriad of reasons…

Again, the fabric of our country is based on a simple representative republic. Taxes were and should be collected by the states and delivered to the federal government in an apportioned manor. That aligns within original structure. That said, the far left have punished the citizenry into oblivion. I guess some people just can see it…. Perhaps that's you, I don't know…
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
packgrad
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GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.



Just listened to her on Rogan. She eviscerates the ideologies of today's Democratic Party, and those of our resident board pretindependents. Hopefully she is just the start of the mass exodus from today's disgusting Democratic Party.
caryking
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packgrad said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.



Just listened to her on Rogan. She eviscerates the ideologies of today's Democratic Party, and those of our resident board pretindependents. Hopefully she is just the start of the mass exodus from today's disgusting Democratic Party.


Plus, as a 56 year old, she's easy on the eyes…
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
jadawson
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packgrad said:

GuerrillaPack said:



Quote:

I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today's Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I'm calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.



Just listened to her on Rogan. She eviscerates the ideologies of today's Democratic Party, and those of our resident board pretindependents. Hopefully she is just the start of the mass exodus from today's disgusting Democratic Party.


Wonder where she will go if she plans to run again. Surely she wouldn't be accepted by a majority of conservative for most of her views?

I mean she endorsed Bernie sanders in 2016 after she dropped out.
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