The Biden Administration..V3

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Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Packchem91 said:

PackFansXL said:

https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."
The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.
I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted
To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.
I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.


And I'm happy to come up with another word so as to not hurt peoples feelings. Amd I acknowledge some terms are used to incite, inflame, influence, etc

So, make up your own terms…but we should address the issues that still exist
it's not the terms,
It's the overall starting approach that is the issue.

If you want to solve a problem legitimately, don't put your "adversary" on the defensive to begin with. You're basically saying "we all know the current system was designed to produce a bias and is immoral, so how do we fix it?"

Now I have to defend the system and we don't attack the issue.


Why defend the system that is producing such results? Why not acknowledge amd work to fix it?

A lot of the people so defensive here (not you) are ones who say DC (a system) is broken.

I get being upset Biden is throwing It in the face. How should he approach it ?


How about saying, "we've made great strides as a country in the last 70 years, but we still have work to do."


Ok. But again, half the country adored and elected a man because he said the system was completely rotten and broken. Parts of it surely were. Parts of it were/are not.



Are we talking about race in this country or are we talking about DC and the political system? The question was asked regarding how Biden addresses race in this country. I answered that. Have we it have we not gotten better with regard to race relations in the past 70 years?


No, you're upset that a POTUS you don't like did something that you relished when a POTUS you did like did it. It's politics

I use the term "you" generically here.

As I added to my previous post likely while you were responding…if he soft sells it like you typed, who listens?
BBW12OG
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Civilized said:

hokiewolf said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Packchem91 said:

PackFansXL said:

https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."
The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.
I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted
To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.
I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.

Like I said, then use different vernacular. I don't care what it's called.

Again, it's fairly easy to specifically define the problems without condemning anything or trying to lay blame.
Per their percentage of the population do blacks commit more crimes than whites?

And if so wouldn't that explain why they are incarcerated at a higher rate? Or are we going to ignore the facts?

Civ you are doing nothing to help your argument by using lefty talking points that are easily disproven. Just saying...
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
Steve Videtich
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Where did Trump say that we have a racism problem in our country?
Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

Where did Trump say that we have a racism problem in our country?


I doubt he ever did. But he was elected because he used very general terms to say we had a systemic issue in DC. People rallied around him b/c of it

Now many of those people are offended when another president calls out a different system (policing) and says it is still full of issues. Seems a bit hypocritical.

So are we supposed to only call these things out when they are 100% bad?

Do you really think he gets a positive response from this board or GOP congressmen if he kindly suggests we have racial issues in our policing and judicial process that, despite progress, still need improvement? I don't…I think the same party lines form up and the same walls go up, etx

Steve Videtich
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So we're having a discussion about race relations in this country and you expand it out (move the goal posts) to bring Trump into it?

Okay, sticking to the topic everyone else is discussing, if Trump would've said we have race issues in this country and some of the same things Biden and the democrats have said, I would've said he's full of it, just like I am now. Racism is not where we want it to be, but it's not where Biden claims it is either.

The rhetoric has become so inflammatory that you would think we are living back in the 50's right now. You slam Trump about his rhetoric, but that's because you hate him. But, you're okay with Biden being in your face because he's not Trump. Claim hypocrisy again.
Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

So we're having a discussion about race relations in this country and you expand it out (move the goal posts) to bring Trump into it?

Okay, sticking to the topic everyone else is discussing, if Trump would've said we have race issues in this country and some of the same things Biden and the democrats have said, I would've said he's full of it, just like I am now. Racism is not where we want it to be, but it's not where Biden claims it is either.

The rhetoric has become so inflammatory that you would think we are living back in the 50's right now. You slam Trump about his rhetoric, but that's because you hate him. But, you're okay with Biden being in your face because he's not Trump. Claim hypocrisy again.


Lol, I see it the opposite way. The far right got behind Trump because he railed against the system, said it was systemic political issues.

Now when the other president says it, those same people are wanting to argue over semantics. Which is it?

That is hypocrisy. Frankly, in calling out the particular issues - I think both were correct. The political insider system is broken. Not 100%, but enough. Same with policing. It's improved. But it's still not nearly equal.

There are clearly issues in the policing system - we agree on that. Something needs to be done. Some of us agree on that. Many here are upset that Biden says it's a systemic issue. Just seems like an odd thing to get spun up on.



Steve Videtich
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Again, you're painting with a broad paint brush which is really how racism works. But, you do you. In my opinion, both issues are the result of bad actors.

Now here's the difference, politicians are bad actors on both sides of the aisle. Many in this board have agreed with that. Racism that is being accused by Biden and the left is an accusation that only claims one side is the problem. I see a bit of a difference?
Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

Again, you're painting with a broad paint brush which is really how racism works. But, you do you. In my opinion, both issues are the result of bad actors.

Now here's the difference, politicians are bad actors on both sides of the aisle. Many in this board have agreed with that. Racism that is being accused by Biden and the left is an accusation that only claims one side is the problem. I see a bit of a difference?


What exactly am I painting with a broad brush? Do you dispute the numbers Civil posted?

Do you really expect the far right (99% white) to suggest racism is bad?

Again, you have Cary in here saying it's just fine the way it is, just wait it out. Lol. So yes, I do see an issue that only one "side" is talking about racism.

I'd bet 99% of people who say that are white? What is your estimate of the skin color of those who aren't concerned about racial issues in this country? Probably the ones who are least effected by it.

Do you think maybe Taht has something more to do with it than political party? Seems pretty obvious.

Does Biden over state his case - I've said multiple times already that he does. I also said I liked the terms you use about how to introduce the issue…sadly I don't think that approach gets used much anymore
Packchem91
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^ok enough of the heavy topic. Going to take my daughter to go see the best movie ever made on a big IMAX screen - Jaws.
Steve Videtich
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Your broad brush says all that agreed with Trump about the DC system oppose the thought of systemic racism. That assumes people are blindly following political lines. If anything has really showed itself in this board, when folks actually get to real discussions, that is not often the case. But, you keep making those assumptions because the media keeps reporting it that way.

I'm not Cary, so you can have your debate with him. Don't bring his thoughts into a back and forth with me. Again that makes your brush broader.

As far as the people affected by race, you are basing your assumptions off of conversations with 3 people and the "rates" that Civ provides. The doesn't mean everyone. I've had discussions with a lot more than that and see viewpoints all across the spectrum. The "rates" argument is nothing more than fun with a calculator when the raw numbers don't back up your argument. So you divide this number by that number to create a number that supports your argument.
Steve Videtich
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Have a great time! The world is not as ugly as many portray it to be. But, we do have our warts to remove.
Werewolf
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Steve Videtich said:

Your broad brush says all that agreed with Trump about the DC system oppose the thought of systemic racism. That assumes people are blindly following political lines. If anything has really showed itself in this board, when folks actually get to real discussions, that is not often the case. But, you keep making those assumptions because the media keeps reporting it that way.

I'm not Cary, so you can have your debate with him. Don't bring his thoughts into a back and forth with me. Again that makes your brush broader.

As far as the people affected by race, you are basing your assumptions off of conversations with 3 people and the "rates" that Civ provides. The doesn't mean everyone. I've had discussions with a lot more than that and see viewpoints all across the spectrum. The "rates" argument is nothing more than fun with a calculator when the raw numbers don't back up your argument. So you divide this number by that number to create a number that supports your argument.
If I'm far right its because we have 20-30 years indoctrination of Marxist ideas........WOKEness. I agree racism exists, I agree sexism exists, I agree bias exists w religious affiliation.. I agree bias exists with handicap, with overweight obesity, gay, etc..........it exists and I prefer we be free to conduct our thoughts as we see fit as sovereign human beings. The majority of these sins can best treated.......at home in the family unit. Who's been tearing down the family unit for the last 60 years? Who is behind it.....start asking questions. It ain't hard.
GuerrillaPack
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https://instagr.am/p/CiIuueXvY4u

Quote:

"Let me be clear: I'm going to have to break more laws and seize even more power if I'm going to stop fascism."
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
Steve Videtich
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Werewolf said:

Steve Videtich said:

Your broad brush says all that agreed with Trump about the DC system oppose the thought of systemic racism. That assumes people are blindly following political lines. If anything has really showed itself in this board, when folks actually get to real discussions, that is not often the case. But, you keep making those assumptions because the media keeps reporting it that way.

I'm not Cary, so you can have your debate with him. Don't bring his thoughts into a back and forth with me. Again that makes your brush broader.

As far as the people affected by race, you are basing your assumptions off of conversations with 3 people and the "rates" that Civ provides. The doesn't mean everyone. I've had discussions with a lot more than that and see viewpoints all across the spectrum. The "rates" argument is nothing more than fun with a calculator when the raw numbers don't back up your argument. So you divide this number by that number to create a number that supports your argument.
If I'm far right its because we have 20-30 years indoctrination of Marxist ideas........WOKEness. I agree racism exists, I agree sexism exists, I agree bias exists w religious affiliation.. I agree bias exists with handicap, with overweight obesity, gay, etc..........it exists and I prefer we be free to conduct our thoughts as we see fit as sovereign human beings. The majority of these sins can best treated.......at home in the family unit. Who's been tearing down the family unit for the last 60 years? Who is behind it.....start asking questions. It ain't hard.


Was that meant for me or in continuation of what I'm saying?
PackFansXL
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Quote:

Do you really expect the far right (99% white) to suggest racism is bad?
Um, do you really want to stand by this post?
caryking
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The back and fourth tells me a lot about some of the people on here…. Actually, I already knew it; however, I was "wishful thinking" the conversation would be more nuanced!!
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
GuerrillaPack
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https://instagr.am/p/CiIWDs0u9nr
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
Oldsouljer
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Packchem91 said:

Oldsouljer said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Just asking, not trying to flame. Do you think racism exists in the other direction?


Yes. There is plenty of prejudice against white people. But I think what we're discussing is really "by those in power" - hiring, policing, sentencing, educating, etc. And in this country, the people in power, in general are white.

I mean, I think this country also has a pretty evident history of racism against Native Americans. Is there a return of that racism by today's tribe? Well I'm pretty sure many of them despise all white people. But do they have power to make a difference? I'd say very limited?
My observations in the military were that going back decades, being white meant dealing with systemic bias to get promotions. They called it Equal Opportunity but everyone knew it was really Affirmative Action, i.e., that promotion boards had an unspoken quota to meet, there were only so many promotion slots available, and requiring a photograph of each candidate presented to the board was not for the official reason that the board needed to know that a selectee was not overweight.



I get it. I acknowledge there are surely areas where "corrections" went overboard. Probably schools have offered scholarships that have been similarly impacted. Some want to even things out, which can cause issues. I think offering equal opportunity is fair, but not to the degree that it excludes based on the same conditions you're trying to address.
I work in a major corporation as a manager and I know there are continual conversation/education to interview (not hire) minority candidates and to ensure if there is a review panel taht the pane include a minority. I think both of those seem extremely reasonable ways to lower the chances of built in bias in the hiring decision. I've hired a number of people, but never felt one bit of pressure to hire a person of color from those above me or corporate policy. I've always hired what I thought were the best candidates, amd it just so happens that has included white, black, Hispanic, men, women, veterans, older, and gay.
Nor should you. A major problem today as I see it is that entities and/or organizations see it as their role to "level the playing field" against injustices of the past…..which isn't necessary today and is actually impossible to do because the injustices of the past for the most part can't be rectified (it is the past after all), and worse, these same people think it's morally ok to hurt an innocent person of today because they belonged to a perceived privileged class of the past. That's harmful to individuals and detrimental to the goal of a society free of race consciousness.
GuerrillaPack
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Gander at the difference between a pathetic Biden "rally" of about 200 people in a room and a huge Trump rally of thousands in Pennsylvania in a stadium, both just within days a few days ago in Pennsylvania.

Same as it was during the 2020 campaign, with nobody showing up for Brandon's little get togethers of dozens of voters. The small crowds to see Brandon were blamed on the covid scamdemic back then. No excuse now.

Look, you can't gaslight us....there was MASSIVE election fraud to install this senile kid sniffing would-be dictator as your fake "president". GARGANTUAN levels of election fraud -- tens of thousands of fake mail in ballots magically arriving at 3 am in trucks on election night in every battleground state that were almost 100% all for Biden, Soros-company owned faux "voting" and "counting" machines rigging the votes, etc.

And that said...I want DeSantis as the nominee, of those likely to be the nominee. Not Trump, who has proven himself to be another controlled opposition RINO.

"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
packgrad
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Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Packchem91 said:

PackFansXL said:

https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."
The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.
I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted
To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.
I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.


And I'm happy to come up with another word so as to not hurt peoples feelings. Amd I acknowledge some terms are used to incite, inflame, influence, etc

So, make up your own terms…but we should address the issues that still exist
it's not the terms,
It's the overall starting approach that is the issue.

If you want to solve a problem legitimately, don't put your "adversary" on the defensive to begin with. You're basically saying "we all know the current system was designed to produce a bias and is immoral, so how do we fix it?"

Now I have to defend the system and we don't attack the issue.


Why defend the system that is producing such results? Why not acknowledge amd work to fix it?

A lot of the people so defensive here (not you) are ones who say DC (a system) is broken.

I get being upset Biden is throwing It in the face. How should he approach it ?


How about saying, "we've made great strides as a country in the last 70 years, but we still have work to do."


Ok. But again, half the country adored and elected a man because he said the system was completely rotten and broken. Parts of it surely were. Parts of it were/are not.

ETA: as a non-confrontational person,


Lol at lying Chem saying he is a "non confrontational person". What a lack of self awareness.
Werewolf
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Steve Videtich said:

Werewolf said:

Steve Videtich said:

Your broad brush says all that agreed with Trump about the DC system oppose the thought of systemic racism. That assumes people are blindly following political lines. If anything has really showed itself in this board, when folks actually get to real discussions, that is not often the case. But, you keep making those assumptions because the media keeps reporting it that way.

I'm not Cary, so you can have your debate with him. Don't bring his thoughts into a back and forth with me. Again that makes your brush broader.

As far as the people affected by race, you are basing your assumptions off of conversations with 3 people and the "rates" that Civ provides. The doesn't mean everyone. I've had discussions with a lot more than that and see viewpoints all across the spectrum. The "rates" argument is nothing more than fun with a calculator when the raw numbers don't back up your argument. So you divide this number by that number to create a number that supports your argument.
If I'm far right its because we have 20-30 years indoctrination of Marxist ideas........WOKEness. I agree racism exists, I agree sexism exists, I agree bias exists w religious affiliation.. I agree bias exists with handicap, with overweight obesity, gay, etc..........it exists and I prefer we be free to conduct our thoughts as we see fit as sovereign human beings. The majority of these sins can best treated.......at home in the family unit. Who's been tearing down the family unit for the last 60 years? Who is behind it.....start asking questions. It ain't hard.


Was that meant for me or in continuation of what I'm saying?
Not for you Patriot.
Werewolf
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PKem and Civility ....couldn't tell you a thing about the Uyghurs.......both wearing nothing but Nike, too. Watching the Lakers wearing Lebron jerseys
Packchem91
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PackFansXL said:

Quote:

Do you really expect the far right (99% white) to suggest racism is bad?
Um, do you really want to stand by this post?
The America First platform doesn't even touch on it. At least not on their website. Rails against a police state, against hate crimes, but nothing about making sure people are treated equally by the police.

On this site --- I see the following:
1) people wrapped up in definitions, but who've yet to reference any actual issues
2) poster who disavows of it all (and everything I ever say, lol)
3) poster who says people affected just have to deal with it and that even discussing it is bad, lol.
4) Steve, who acknowledges lots of work to be done, but doesn't see it as bad as some do -- thats ok, at least thats a starting point to facilitate progress.

So....maybe i would say I wasn't targeting individuals with that comment, but as a platform, I don't see it?
Packchem91
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caryking said:

The back and fourth tells me a lot about some of the people on here…. Actually, I already knew it; however, I was "wishful thinking" the conversation would be more nuanced!!
LOL, I don't think you understand the term "irony".

Your two contributions to this topic are embarrassing for you, just to be frank.

1) its dangerous to even talk about this issue, and the people affected by it are just going to have to wait it out until its all gone.
2) white people who go into a black neighborhood will get profiled --- but I notice you've still not answered my question what you mean by this....and its probably good that you don't.

Packchem91
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packgrad said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Packchem91 said:

PackFansXL said:

https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."
The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.
I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted
To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.
I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.


And I'm happy to come up with another word so as to not hurt peoples feelings. Amd I acknowledge some terms are used to incite, inflame, influence, etc

So, make up your own terms…but we should address the issues that still exist
it's not the terms,
It's the overall starting approach that is the issue.

If you want to solve a problem legitimately, don't put your "adversary" on the defensive to begin with. You're basically saying "we all know the current system was designed to produce a bias and is immoral, so how do we fix it?"

Now I have to defend the system and we don't attack the issue.


Why defend the system that is producing such results? Why not acknowledge amd work to fix it?

A lot of the people so defensive here (not you) are ones who say DC (a system) is broken.

I get being upset Biden is throwing It in the face. How should he approach it ?


How about saying, "we've made great strides as a country in the last 70 years, but we still have work to do."


Ok. But again, half the country adored and elected a man because he said the system was completely rotten and broken. Parts of it surely were. Parts of it were/are not.

ETA: as a non-confrontational person,


Lol at lying Chem saying he is a "non confrontational person". What a lack of self awareness.
I figured you might respond. I really am in person. For most of my conversations here, if we were in person, they'd not sound confrontational. The black and white nature of the typed word doesn't help much.

And btw, lying is when you say something, and then even when confronted with those words, say you didn't say it.
packgrad
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What's clear is that lying Chem doesn't understand what systemic racism is but wants to pretend he's smarter than everyone else.
packgrad
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Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Packchem91 said:

PackFansXL said:

https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."
The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.
I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted
To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.
I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.


And I'm happy to come up with another word so as to not hurt peoples feelings. Amd I acknowledge some terms are used to incite, inflame, influence, etc

So, make up your own terms…but we should address the issues that still exist
it's not the terms,
It's the overall starting approach that is the issue.

If you want to solve a problem legitimately, don't put your "adversary" on the defensive to begin with. You're basically saying "we all know the current system was designed to produce a bias and is immoral, so how do we fix it?"

Now I have to defend the system and we don't attack the issue.


Why defend the system that is producing such results? Why not acknowledge amd work to fix it?

A lot of the people so defensive here (not you) are ones who say DC (a system) is broken.

I get being upset Biden is throwing It in the face. How should he approach it ?


How about saying, "we've made great strides as a country in the last 70 years, but we still have work to do."


Ok. But again, half the country adored and elected a man because he said the system was completely rotten and broken. Parts of it surely were. Parts of it were/are not.

ETA: as a non-confrontational person,


Lol at lying Chem saying he is a "non confrontational person". What a lack of self awareness.


And btw, lying is when you say something, and then even when confronted with those words, say you didn't say it.


Yes. You've clearly earned lying Chem.
Packchem91
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Oldsouljer said:

Packchem91 said:

Oldsouljer said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Just asking, not trying to flame. Do you think racism exists in the other direction?


Yes. There is plenty of prejudice against white people. But I think what we're discussing is really "by those in power" - hiring, policing, sentencing, educating, etc. And in this country, the people in power, in general are white.

I mean, I think this country also has a pretty evident history of racism against Native Americans. Is there a return of that racism by today's tribe? Well I'm pretty sure many of them despise all white people. But do they have power to make a difference? I'd say very limited?
My observations in the military were that going back decades, being white meant dealing with systemic bias to get promotions. They called it Equal Opportunity but everyone knew it was really Affirmative Action, i.e., that promotion boards had an unspoken quota to meet, there were only so many promotion slots available, and requiring a photograph of each candidate presented to the board was not for the official reason that the board needed to know that a selectee was not overweight.



I get it. I acknowledge there are surely areas where "corrections" went overboard. Probably schools have offered scholarships that have been similarly impacted. Some want to even things out, which can cause issues. I think offering equal opportunity is fair, but not to the degree that it excludes based on the same conditions you're trying to address.
I work in a major corporation as a manager and I know there are continual conversation/education to interview (not hire) minority candidates and to ensure if there is a review panel taht the pane include a minority. I think both of those seem extremely reasonable ways to lower the chances of built in bias in the hiring decision. I've hired a number of people, but never felt one bit of pressure to hire a person of color from those above me or corporate policy. I've always hired what I thought were the best candidates, amd it just so happens that has included white, black, Hispanic, men, women, veterans, older, and gay.
Nor should you. A major problem today as I see it is that entities and/or organizations see it as their role to "level the playing field" against injustices of the past…..which isn't necessary today and is actually impossible to do because the injustices of the past for the most part can't be rectified (it is the past after all), and worse, these same people think it's morally ok to hurt an innocent person of today because they belonged to a perceived privileged class of the past. That's harmful to individuals and detrimental to the goal of a society free of race consciousness.
Its a slippery slope. I cringe at the forced training. But I do get the concern of --- if you are hiring an exec, and the hiring panel is 10 white men....there's likely to be a built in bias in that panel. Thats not saying they are racists (or sexists), jsut a recognition that there may be built in subconscious biases to that group.
Packchem91
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packgrad said:

What's clear is that lying Chem doesn't understand what systemic racism is but wants to pretend he's smarter than everyone else.
certainly not smarter than everyone here. Maybe not as smart as any of you. That is why its surprising that even a dummy like me can see a problem, but some of you really intelligent people think is no big deal.

Instead of attacking me, maybe you can refute some of Civil's comments about where the biases are seen.
Werewolf
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Once the graphene oxide is flowing within all of us they'll be able to control all thought and all actions of all people. We can then have equality across the board, no racial bias, no biases towards any issue or people. It will finally, once and for all, be utopia.

Useful idiots are not Marxist, they unknowingly fall for the Marxist propaganda........utopia for all........ The reality is power for a few and serfdom for the rest. Clueless
Packchem91
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packgrad said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Packchem91 said:

PackFansXL said:

https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."
The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.
I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted
To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.
I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.


And I'm happy to come up with another word so as to not hurt peoples feelings. Amd I acknowledge some terms are used to incite, inflame, influence, etc

So, make up your own terms…but we should address the issues that still exist
it's not the terms,
It's the overall starting approach that is the issue.

If you want to solve a problem legitimately, don't put your "adversary" on the defensive to begin with. You're basically saying "we all know the current system was designed to produce a bias and is immoral, so how do we fix it?"

Now I have to defend the system and we don't attack the issue.


Why defend the system that is producing such results? Why not acknowledge amd work to fix it?

A lot of the people so defensive here (not you) are ones who say DC (a system) is broken.

I get being upset Biden is throwing It in the face. How should he approach it ?


How about saying, "we've made great strides as a country in the last 70 years, but we still have work to do."


Ok. But again, half the country adored and elected a man because he said the system was completely rotten and broken. Parts of it surely were. Parts of it were/are not.

ETA: as a non-confrontational person,


Lol at lying Chem saying he is a "non confrontational person". What a lack of self awareness.


And btw, lying is when you say something, and then even when confronted with those words, say you didn't say it.


Yes. You've clearly earned lying Chem.
Nah. I've been wrong about things. I have opinions that may be proven incorrect eventually. But I've never typed the words that I don't believe a story, and then when it proves to be true, declare that those words aren't what I said, lol. That is a special level of being untruthful.
packgrad
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Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Packchem91 said:

hokiewolf said:

Civilized said:

PackFansXL said:

Packchem91 said:

PackFansXL said:

https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."
The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.
I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted
To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.
I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.


And I'm happy to come up with another word so as to not hurt peoples feelings. Amd I acknowledge some terms are used to incite, inflame, influence, etc

So, make up your own terms…but we should address the issues that still exist
it's not the terms,
It's the overall starting approach that is the issue.

If you want to solve a problem legitimately, don't put your "adversary" on the defensive to begin with. You're basically saying "we all know the current system was designed to produce a bias and is immoral, so how do we fix it?"

Now I have to defend the system and we don't attack the issue.


Why defend the system that is producing such results? Why not acknowledge amd work to fix it?

A lot of the people so defensive here (not you) are ones who say DC (a system) is broken.

I get being upset Biden is throwing It in the face. How should he approach it ?


How about saying, "we've made great strides as a country in the last 70 years, but we still have work to do."


Ok. But again, half the country adored and elected a man because he said the system was completely rotten and broken. Parts of it surely were. Parts of it were/are not.

ETA: as a non-confrontational person,


Lol at lying Chem saying he is a "non confrontational person". What a lack of self awareness.


And btw, lying is when you say something, and then even when confronted with those words, say you didn't say it.


Yes. You've clearly earned lying Chem.
Nah. I've been wrong about things. I have opinions that may be proven incorrect eventually. But I've never typed the words that I don't believe a story, and then when it proves to be true, declare that those words aren't what I said, lol. That is a special level of being untruthful.


I never did either. That's why you're lying Chem. Lol. A fraud.
Werewolf
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Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

What's clear is that lying Chem doesn't understand what systemic racism is but wants to pretend he's smarter than everyone else.
certainly not smarter than everyone here. Maybe not as smart as any of you. That is why its surprising that even a dummy like me can see a problem, but some of you really intelligent people think is no big deal.

Instead of attacking me, maybe you can refute some of Civil's comments about where the biases are seen.
Smart kid I'm sure........but a fool.

My ancestor led the Battle of Alamance in 1771. The NC Governor, agent of the King of England, hung him. First, he took Capt Robert Messer's son into custody and would hang the boy if Capt didn't bring Regulators in after fleeing to hills of VA. Capt Robert Messer came back later and turned himself in and the Governor promptly hung him and spared his son. You have no damn clue about the sacrifices that have been made for nearly 300 years to fight for freedom and liberty. You're triggered by some Anderson Cooper piece about some injustice in Minneapolis. We're flirting with a NWO agenda and subjugation of our population. The enemy is in control of the reins. You think you're smart - its etched in your posts -- but you're George Soros' fool.

caryking
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Packchem91 said:

caryking said:

The back and fourth tells me a lot about some of the people on here…. Actually, I already knew it; however, I was "wishful thinking" the conversation would be more nuanced!!
LOL, I don't think you understand the term "irony".

Your two contributions to this topic are embarrassing for you, just to be frank.

1) its dangerous to even talk about this issue, and the people affected by it are just going to have to wait it out until its all gone.
2) white people who go into a black neighborhood will get profiled --- but I notice you've still not answered my question what you mean by this....and its probably good that you don't.
I think you may have one or two people (regular contributors) that support you. On the other hand, I'm sure people here will fully understand what I'm saying.

You continue to leave out my context; however, that's very typical…

BTW, profiling a white person, in a predominantly black neighborhood, will happen, by both: the police and the neighborhood. Both will ask: what's that white boy doing in here? If you don't know that's true, you've never walked into a predominantly black neighborhood. I have!
The Administrative State - Rise of the Fourth Reich!!
BBW12OG
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Packchem91 said:

packgrad said:

What's clear is that lying Chem doesn't understand what systemic racism is but wants to pretend he's smarter than everyone else.
certainly not smarter than everyone here. Maybe not as smart as any of you. That is why its surprising that even a dummy like me can see a problem, but some of you really intelligent people think is no big deal.

Instead of attacking me, maybe you can refute some of Civil's comments about where the biases are seen.
I replied and like always you and Civ ignored it because it was factual and doesn't fit your BS narrative.

When you decide to actually address the facts and statistics you will see the falacy (lies) in your statements.
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

"The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
- Thomas Jefferson
 
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