Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Civilized said:

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PackFansXL said:

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Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

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"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."

---

The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.

---

I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted

---

To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

---

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.

---

I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.

---

And I'm happy to come up with another word so as to not hurt peoples feelings. Amd I acknowledge some terms are used to incite, inflame, influence, etc

So, make up your own terms…but we should address the issues that still exist

---

it's not the terms,
It's the overall starting approach that is the issue.

If you want to solve a problem legitimately, don't put your "adversary" on the defensive to begin with. You're basically saying "we all know the current system was designed to produce a bias and is immoral, so how do we fix it?"

Now I have to defend the system and we don't attack the issue.

---

Why defend the system that is producing such results? Why not acknowledge amd work to fix it?

A lot of the people so defensive here (not you) are ones who say DC (a system) is broken.

I get being upset Biden is throwing It in the face. How should he approach it ?

---

How about saying, "we've made great strides as a country in the last 70 years, but we still have work to do."

---

Ok. But again, half the country adored and elected a man because he said the system was completely rotten and broken. Parts of it surely were. Parts of it were/are not.

---

Are we talking about race in this country or are we talking about DC and the political system? The question was asked regarding how Biden addresses race in this country. I answered that. Have we it have we not gotten better with regard to race relations in the past 70 years?

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Civilized said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Civilized said:

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PackFansXL said:

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Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

---

"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."

---

The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.

---

I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted

---

To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

---

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.

---

I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.

---

Like I said, then use different vernacular. I don't care what it's called.

Again, it's fairly easy to specifically define the problems without condemning anything or trying to lay blame.

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Steve Videtich said:

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Where did Trump say that we have a racism problem in our country?

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Steve Videtich said:

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So we're having a discussion about race relations in this country and you expand it out (move the goal posts) to bring Trump into it?

Okay, sticking to the topic everyone else is discussing, if Trump would've said we have race issues in this country and some of the same things Biden and the democrats have said, I would've said he's full of it, just like I am now. Racism is not where we want it to be, but it's not where Biden claims it is either.

The rhetoric has become so inflammatory that you would think we are living back in the 50's right now. You slam Trump about his rhetoric, but that's because you hate him. But, you're okay with Biden being in your face because he's not Trump. Claim hypocrisy again.

---

Steve Videtich said:

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Again, you're painting with a broad paint brush which is really how racism works. But, you do you. In my opinion, both issues are the result of bad actors.

Now here's the difference, politicians are bad actors on both sides of the aisle. Many in this board have agreed with that. Racism that is being accused by Biden and the left is an accusation that only claims one side is the problem. I see a bit of a difference?

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Steve Videtich said:

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Your broad brush says all that agreed with Trump about the DC system oppose the thought of systemic racism. That assumes people are blindly following political lines. If anything has really showed itself in this board, when folks actually get to real discussions, that is not often the case. But, you keep making those assumptions because the media keeps reporting it that way.

I'm not Cary, so you can have your debate with him. Don't bring his thoughts into a back and forth with me. Again that makes your brush broader.

As far as the people affected by race, you are basing your assumptions off of conversations with 3 people and the "rates" that Civ provides. The doesn't mean everyone. I've had discussions with a lot more than that and see viewpoints all across the spectrum. The "rates" argument is nothing more than fun with a calculator when the raw numbers don't back up your argument. So you divide this number by that number to create a number that supports your argument.

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Werewolf said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Your broad brush says all that agreed with Trump about the DC system oppose the thought of systemic racism. That assumes people are blindly following political lines. If anything has really showed itself in this board, when folks actually get to real discussions, that is not often the case. But, you keep making those assumptions because the media keeps reporting it that way.

I'm not Cary, so you can have your debate with him. Don't bring his thoughts into a back and forth with me. Again that makes your brush broader.

As far as the people affected by race, you are basing your assumptions off of conversations with 3 people and the "rates" that Civ provides. The doesn't mean everyone. I've had discussions with a lot more than that and see viewpoints all across the spectrum. The "rates" argument is nothing more than fun with a calculator when the raw numbers don't back up your argument. So you divide this number by that number to create a number that supports your argument.

---

If I'm far right its because we have 20-30 years indoctrination of Marxist ideas........WOKEness. I agree racism exists, I agree sexism exists, I agree bias exists w religious affiliation.. I agree bias exists with handicap, with overweight obesity, gay, etc..........it exists and I prefer we be free to conduct our thoughts as we see fit as sovereign human beings. The majority of these sins can best treated.......at home in the family unit. Who's been tearing down the family unit for the last 60 years? Who is behind it.....start asking questions. It ain't hard.

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Packchem91 said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Just asking, not trying to flame. Do you think racism exists in the other direction?

---

Yes. There is plenty of prejudice against white people. But I think what we're discussing is really "by those in power" - hiring, policing, sentencing, educating, etc. And in this country, the people in power, in general are white.

I mean, I think this country also has a pretty evident history of racism against Native Americans. Is there a return of that racism by today's tribe? Well I'm pretty sure many of them despise all white people. But do they have power to make a difference? I'd say very limited?

---

My observations in the military were that going back decades, being white meant dealing with systemic bias to get promotions. They called it Equal Opportunity but everyone knew it was really Affirmative Action, i.e., that promotion boards had an unspoken quota to meet, there were only so many promotion slots available, and requiring a photograph of each candidate presented to the board was not for the official reason that the board needed to know that a selectee was not overweight.

---

I get it. I acknowledge there are surely areas where "corrections" went overboard. Probably schools have offered scholarships that have been similarly impacted. Some want to even things out, which can cause issues. I think offering equal opportunity is fair, but not to the degree that it excludes based on the same conditions you're trying to address.
I work in a major corporation as a manager and I know there are continual conversation/education to interview (not hire) minority candidates and to ensure if there is a review panel taht the pane include a minority. I think both of those seem extremely reasonable ways to lower the chances of built in bias in the hiring decision. I've hired a number of people, but never felt one bit of pressure to hire a person of color from those above me or corporate policy. I've always hired what I thought were the best candidates, amd it just so happens that has included white, black, Hispanic, men, women, veterans, older, and gay.

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Civilized said:

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PackFansXL said:

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Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

---

"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."

---

The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.

---

I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted

---

To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

---

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.

---

I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.

---

And I'm happy to come up with another word so as to not hurt peoples feelings. Amd I acknowledge some terms are used to incite, inflame, influence, etc

So, make up your own terms…but we should address the issues that still exist

---

it's not the terms,
It's the overall starting approach that is the issue.

If you want to solve a problem legitimately, don't put your "adversary" on the defensive to begin with. You're basically saying "we all know the current system was designed to produce a bias and is immoral, so how do we fix it?"

Now I have to defend the system and we don't attack the issue.

---

Why defend the system that is producing such results? Why not acknowledge amd work to fix it?

A lot of the people so defensive here (not you) are ones who say DC (a system) is broken.

I get being upset Biden is throwing It in the face. How should he approach it ?

---

How about saying, "we've made great strides as a country in the last 70 years, but we still have work to do."

---

Ok. But again, half the country adored and elected a man because he said the system was completely rotten and broken. Parts of it surely were. Parts of it were/are not.

ETA: as a non-confrontational person,

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Your broad brush says all that agreed with Trump about the DC system oppose the thought of systemic racism. That assumes people are blindly following political lines. If anything has really showed itself in this board, when folks actually get to real discussions, that is not often the case. But, you keep making those assumptions because the media keeps reporting it that way.

I'm not Cary, so you can have your debate with him. Don't bring his thoughts into a back and forth with me. Again that makes your brush broader.

As far as the people affected by race, you are basing your assumptions off of conversations with 3 people and the "rates" that Civ provides. The doesn't mean everyone. I've had discussions with a lot more than that and see viewpoints all across the spectrum. The "rates" argument is nothing more than fun with a calculator when the raw numbers don't back up your argument. So you divide this number by that number to create a number that supports your argument.

---

If I'm far right its because we have 20-30 years indoctrination of Marxist ideas........WOKEness. I agree racism exists, I agree sexism exists, I agree bias exists w religious affiliation.. I agree bias exists with handicap, with overweight obesity, gay, etc..........it exists and I prefer we be free to conduct our thoughts as we see fit as sovereign human beings. The majority of these sins can best treated.......at home in the family unit. Who's been tearing down the family unit for the last 60 years? Who is behind it.....start asking questions. It ain't hard.

---

Was that meant for me or in continuation of what I'm saying?

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PackFansXL said:

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Quote:

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Do you really expect the far right (99% white) to suggest racism is bad?

---

Um, do you really want to stand by this post?

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caryking said:

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The back and fourth tells me a lot about some of the people on here…. Actually, I already knew it; however, I was "wishful thinking" the conversation would be more nuanced!!

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packgrad said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

PackFansXL said:

---

Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

---

"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."

---

The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.

---

I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted

---

To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

---

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.

---

I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.

---

And I'm happy to come up with another word so as to not hurt peoples feelings. Amd I acknowledge some terms are used to incite, inflame, influence, etc

So, make up your own terms…but we should address the issues that still exist

---

it's not the terms,
It's the overall starting approach that is the issue.

If you want to solve a problem legitimately, don't put your "adversary" on the defensive to begin with. You're basically saying "we all know the current system was designed to produce a bias and is immoral, so how do we fix it?"

Now I have to defend the system and we don't attack the issue.

---

Why defend the system that is producing such results? Why not acknowledge amd work to fix it?

A lot of the people so defensive here (not you) are ones who say DC (a system) is broken.

I get being upset Biden is throwing It in the face. How should he approach it ?

---

How about saying, "we've made great strides as a country in the last 70 years, but we still have work to do."

---

Ok. But again, half the country adored and elected a man because he said the system was completely rotten and broken. Parts of it surely were. Parts of it were/are not.

ETA: as a non-confrontational person,

---

Lol at lying Chem saying he is a "non confrontational person". What a lack of self awareness.

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Steve Videtich said:

---

Just asking, not trying to flame. Do you think racism exists in the other direction?

---

Yes. There is plenty of prejudice against white people. But I think what we're discussing is really "by those in power" - hiring, policing, sentencing, educating, etc. And in this country, the people in power, in general are white.

I mean, I think this country also has a pretty evident history of racism against Native Americans. Is there a return of that racism by today's tribe? Well I'm pretty sure many of them despise all white people. But do they have power to make a difference? I'd say very limited?

---

My observations in the military were that going back decades, being white meant dealing with systemic bias to get promotions. They called it Equal Opportunity but everyone knew it was really Affirmative Action, i.e., that promotion boards had an unspoken quota to meet, there were only so many promotion slots available, and requiring a photograph of each candidate presented to the board was not for the official reason that the board needed to know that a selectee was not overweight.

---

I get it. I acknowledge there are surely areas where "corrections" went overboard. Probably schools have offered scholarships that have been similarly impacted. Some want to even things out, which can cause issues. I think offering equal opportunity is fair, but not to the degree that it excludes based on the same conditions you're trying to address.
I work in a major corporation as a manager and I know there are continual conversation/education to interview (not hire) minority candidates and to ensure if there is a review panel taht the pane include a minority. I think both of those seem extremely reasonable ways to lower the chances of built in bias in the hiring decision. I've hired a number of people, but never felt one bit of pressure to hire a person of color from those above me or corporate policy. I've always hired what I thought were the best candidates, amd it just so happens that has included white, black, Hispanic, men, women, veterans, older, and gay.

---

Nor should you. A major problem today as I see it is that entities and/or organizations see it as their role to "level the playing field" against injustices of the past…..which isn't necessary today and is actually impossible to do because the injustices of the past for the most part can't be rectified (it is the past after all), and worse, these same people think it's morally ok to hurt an innocent person of today because they belonged to a perceived privileged class of the past. That's harmful to individuals and detrimental to the goal of a society free of race consciousness.

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packgrad said:

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What's clear is that lying Chem doesn't understand what systemic racism is but wants to pretend he's smarter than everyone else.

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packgrad said:

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Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

PackFansXL said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

PackFansXL said:

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https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

---

"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."

---

The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.

---

I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted

---

To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

---

Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.

---

I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.

---

And I'm happy to come up with another word so as to not hurt peoples feelings. Amd I acknowledge some terms are used to incite, inflame, influence, etc

So, make up your own terms…but we should address the issues that still exist

---

it's not the terms,
It's the overall starting approach that is the issue.

If you want to solve a problem legitimately, don't put your "adversary" on the defensive to begin with. You're basically saying "we all know the current system was designed to produce a bias and is immoral, so how do we fix it?"

Now I have to defend the system and we don't attack the issue.

---

Why defend the system that is producing such results? Why not acknowledge amd work to fix it?

A lot of the people so defensive here (not you) are ones who say DC (a system) is broken.

I get being upset Biden is throwing It in the face. How should he approach it ?

---

How about saying, "we've made great strides as a country in the last 70 years, but we still have work to do."

---

Ok. But again, half the country adored and elected a man because he said the system was completely rotten and broken. Parts of it surely were. Parts of it were/are not.

ETA: as a non-confrontational person,

---

Lol at lying Chem saying he is a "non confrontational person". What a lack of self awareness.

---

And btw, lying is when you say something, and then even when confronted with those words, say you didn't say it.

---

Yes. You've clearly earned lying Chem.

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Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Steve Videtich said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Packchem91 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Civilized said:

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PackFansXL said:

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Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565

Quote:

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"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society's major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society the economy, politics, education, religion, the family reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."

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The quote above is from the inventor of the systemic racism term, Joe Feagin. The link is to a site that attempts to define terms that are supposed to be current problems but examples all sound like behavior that was outlawed decades ago.

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I mean, if the term systemic bothers you, what term do you want to give it?

Do you disagree with the conditions Civil outlined? If we assume they are all true, is that an issue to you? And if it's not "systemic ", what is it?

To be clear, because you started this topic with your statement that Biden called you and other white males racist. The conditions Civil lay out don't make you racist. Bit ignoring them, or as Cary says "just have to live with it"…that at least suggests we're ok with them because it's not us being impacted

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To me racism refers to actively trying to suppress the rights of someone based solely on their skin color. To a sociologist, racism has a much broader definition which is why I posted it. By the sociologist's definition of the term, any experiential based observations categorized using skin color as one element of a working conclusion is racist. With that definition, everyone is racist just as the Bible teaches that everyone is a sinner. It is unavoidable. Attempting to gain political power while declaring your opponents are racist using the sociologist's terminology is hypocritical and dishonest because by that definition everyone is racist including the politician claiming to be morally superior.

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Obviously you're triggered by the word, so use whatever word you want to describe different (worse) outcomes for Black Americans vs. White Americans in criminal justice.

Is there a reason to not try and square the playing field so that black and white Americans are pulled over at the same rate, charged at the same rate (when the crimes they are accused of are similar), convicted at the same rate (when the crimes they're accused of are similar), sentenced at a similar severity (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), paroled as frequently (when the crimes they're convicted of are similar), etc.

Because those are real problems, and they're the problems people are talking about when they talk about implicit bias and systemic racism. So if the words bias, racism, privilege, etc. bother you pick other words but let's stop being distracted by the words and focus instead on the actual and obvious challenges.

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I don't think you're going to accomplish what you want to accomplish by condemning the entire system as systemically racist, because it's not.

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And I'm happy to come up with another word so as to not hurt peoples feelings. Amd I acknowledge some terms are used to incite, inflame, influence, etc

So, make up your own terms…but we should address the issues that still exist

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it's not the terms,
It's the overall starting approach that is the issue.

If you want to solve a problem legitimately, don't put your "adversary" on the defensive to begin with. You're basically saying "we all know the current system was designed to produce a bias and is immoral, so how do we fix it?"

Now I have to defend the system and we don't attack the issue.

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Why defend the system that is producing such results? Why not acknowledge amd work to fix it?

A lot of the people so defensive here (not you) are ones who say DC (a system) is broken.

I get being upset Biden is throwing It in the face. How should he approach it ?

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How about saying, "we've made great strides as a country in the last 70 years, but we still have work to do."

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Ok. But again, half the country adored and elected a man because he said the system was completely rotten and broken. Parts of it surely were. Parts of it were/are not.

ETA: as a non-confrontational person,

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Lol at lying Chem saying he is a "non confrontational person". What a lack of self awareness.

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And btw, lying is when you say something, and then even when confronted with those words, say you didn't say it.

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Yes. You've clearly earned lying Chem.

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Nah. I've been wrong about things. I have opinions that may be proven incorrect eventually. But I've never typed the words that I don't believe a story, and then when it proves to be true, declare that those words aren't what I said, lol. That is a special level of being untruthful.

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Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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What's clear is that lying Chem doesn't understand what systemic racism is but wants to pretend he's smarter than everyone else.

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certainly not smarter than everyone here. Maybe not as smart as any of you. That is why its surprising that even a dummy like me can see a problem, but some of you really intelligent people think is no big deal.

Instead of attacking me, maybe you can refute some of Civil's comments about where the biases are seen.

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Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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The back and fourth tells me a lot about some of the people on here…. Actually, I already knew it; however, I was "wishful thinking" the conversation would be more nuanced!!

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LOL, I don't think you understand the term "irony".

Your two contributions to this topic are embarrassing for you, just to be frank.

1) its dangerous to even talk about this issue, and the people affected by it are just going to have to wait it out until its all gone.
2) white people who go into a black neighborhood will get profiled --- but I notice you've still not answered my question what you mean by this....and its probably good that you don't.

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Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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What's clear is that lying Chem doesn't understand what systemic racism is but wants to pretend he's smarter than everyone else.

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certainly not smarter than everyone here. Maybe not as smart as any of you. That is why its surprising that even a dummy like me can see a problem, but some of you really intelligent people think is no big deal.

Instead of attacking me, maybe you can refute some of Civil's comments about where the biases are seen.

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