statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

ncsualum05 said:

---

I guess his black life didn't matter. What a ****show our country is.

---

Of course it matters. Why do you think this is an either / or situation?

---

Then where is the outrage? Media coverage? Where is it even close to the coverage for Floyd?

---

There's lots of coverage of it on the news. https://lmgtfy.com/?q=David+Dorn

---

Just say the coverage isn't close to the same. Black Lives Matter, kind of.

---

I mean, they're different aren't they? One is another example of oppressive treatment and over-escalation of violence from Police that black people are already terrified of. One is a terrible example of the disregard for life seen by these people rioting and looting. I'm not sure why you would expect the coverage to be the same but that's your expectation so I'm not going to do anything to affect that.

---

Bas2020 said:

---

I've got a family friend that is in Raleigh PD. He's approaching mid 50s. Mainly office work now as he's off patrol . He was asked /told to work on the streets most of the last 4-5 nights . Said he was repeatedly spit on , called Ville names I can't repeat on this board and had junk thrown at him . All sorts of stuff news cameras largely ignored .


Not sure how anyone could do that job and maintain composure .

---

Bas2020 said:

---

I've got a family friend that is in Raleigh PD. He's approaching mid 50s. Mainly office work now as he's off patrol . He was asked /told to work on the streets most of the last 4-5 nights . Said he was repeatedly spit on , called Ville names I can't repeat on this board and had junk thrown at him . All sorts of stuff news cameras largely ignored .


Not sure how anyone could do that job and maintain composure .

---

statefan91 said:

---

Not trying to be smart, but if you are really asking I would make assumptions that:
- it's a powerful job
- you have control over people
- you can cause fear in others that you feel may have wronged you
- you get good benefits and a Union
- you get to play soldier when stuff hits the fan
- you get a gun
- you may not be able to get other jobs with similar levels of "prestige" - Steve I know you say it's thankless but there is about half the country that will give them the benefit of the doubt no matter what

Like I said, not trying to be smart but that was a relatively easy list to pull together as to why people would want to be a police officer while some consider it thankless.

---

statefan91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

I've got a family friend that is in Raleigh PD. He's approaching mid 50s. Mainly office work now as he's off patrol . He was asked /told to work on the streets most of the last 4-5 nights . Said he was repeatedly spit on , called Ville names I can't repeat on this board and had junk thrown at him . All sorts of stuff news cameras largely ignored .


Not sure how anyone could do that job and maintain composure .

---

I don't think all cops are bad. I don't think most cops are bad. I think cops that protect those that they know are bad are themselves bad. And those bad cops that are not held accountable continue to be the ones blasted out to the country and are going to continue to cause citizen distrust of police.

If you can watch this and not see why police training is a problem, I don't know what to tell you. They knock over an old man, see him clearly bleeding from the head / ear/, and do nothing to help him and intervene to stop other offices from checking on him.

---

statefan91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

I've got a family friend that is in Raleigh PD. He's approaching mid 50s. Mainly office work now as he's off patrol . He was asked /told to work on the streets most of the last 4-5 nights . Said he was repeatedly spit on , called Ville names I can't repeat on this board and had junk thrown at him . All sorts of stuff news cameras largely ignored .


Not sure how anyone could do that job and maintain composure .

---

I don't think all cops are bad. I don't think most cops are bad. I think cops that protect those that they know are bad are themselves bad. And those bad cops that are not held accountable continue to be the ones blasted out to the country and are going to continue to cause citizen distrust of police.

If you can watch this and not see why police training is a problem, I don't know what to tell you. They knock over an old man, see him clearly bleeding from the head / ear/, and do nothing to help him and intervene to stop other offices from checking on him.

---

statefan91 said:

---

Yes I expect officers to be able to not push an old man that is causing them no threat. Great that they called a medic, how about letting one officer kneel down with him until someone gets there.

Old man is in critical condition. You good with this mistake if he dies?

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

Yes I expect officers to be able to not push an old man that is causing them no threat. Great that they called a medic, how about letting one officer kneel down with him until someone gets there.

Old man is in critical condition. You good with this mistake if he dies?

---

Such a ridiculous question that doesn't even deserve an answer.

So what training can you give to prevent this? Do you think push old man is in the training manual?

---

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

Yes I expect officers to be able to not push an old man that is causing them no threat. Great that they called a medic, how about letting one officer kneel down with him until someone gets there.

Old man is in critical condition. You good with this mistake if he dies?

---

Such a ridiculous question that doesn't even deserve an answer.

So what training can you give to prevent this? Do you think push old man is in the training manual?

---

Training class #1 - don't assault citizens that are no immediate danger to you or your other officers

---

Steve Williams said:

---

The question I ask myself repeatedly is, why do people continue to work this thankless, dangerous, underpaid job?

---

statefan91 said:

---

Hard to tell, seems to happen pretty frequently.

Looks like the fellow officers don't think they did anything outside of their training or they wouldn't have resigned from their post on the emergency team -

---

packgrad said:

---

I watch it and see a video where an officer acted inappropriately, and was subsequently punished. I also watch the video and see how you try to make it something that fits your narrative. You expect officers to be infallible. Unfortunately, that's an unreasonable expectation. Mistakes will happen, even with whatever training you think you can give that would prevent something like this from happening.

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Its a tough job because there are bad or crooked accountants, lawyers, insurance salesman, teachers, professors, bar owners, pastors, doctors.


In every profession there are bad apples, but you dont go into your doctor's office and spit on his face because there was one bad doctor in Texas that was horrible at this job and accidently killed somebody.

When Rae Carruth killed his pregnant wife I dont think people assumed all athletes are killers.

No other profession are you painted with a broad brush like the police.

Training is one thing, but I also think in alot of these big cities you have mayors that have their own agenda and are probably demanding the police chief tell their people to do something opposite of their training ie what s happening in New York with Deblassio.

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

Hard to tell, seems to happen pretty frequently.

Looks like the fellow officers don't think they did anything outside of their training or they wouldn't have resigned from their post on the emergency team -

---

Or perhaps there is more to the story.

---

Civilized said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Its a tough job because there are bad or crooked accountants, lawyers, insurance salesman, teachers, professors, bar owners, pastors, doctors.


In every profession there are bad apples, but you dont go into your doctor's office and spit on his face because there was one bad doctor in Texas that was horrible at this job and accidently killed somebody.

When Rae Carruth killed his pregnant wife I dont think people assumed all athletes are killers.

No other profession are you painted with a broad brush like the police.

Training is one thing, but I also think in alot of these big cities you have mayors that have their own agenda and are probably demanding the police chief tell their people to do something opposite of their training ie what s happening in New York with Deblassio.

---

There's an obvious difference between a doctor not providing adequate care and a police officer intentionally inflicting mortal harm on someone.

1,100 Americans die at the hands of police every year. We can do better.

In cities where price are given appropriate use-of-force training, the numbers of citizens harmed by police fall.

Police have a very hard and often thankless job, and most police need to be trained better. When they are, the results speak for themselves.

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

Hard to tell, seems to happen pretty frequently.

Looks like the fellow officers don't think they did anything outside of their training or they wouldn't have resigned from their post on the emergency team -

---

Or perhaps there is more to the story.

---

Enlighten us.

If you don't know, take a wild guess about what more there might be to the story.

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Its a tough job because there are bad or crooked accountants, lawyers, insurance salesman, teachers, professors, bar owners, pastors, doctors.


In every profession there are bad apples, but you dont go into your doctor's office and spit on his face because there was one bad doctor in Texas that was horrible at this job and accidently killed somebody.

When Rae Carruth killed his pregnant wife I dont think people assumed all athletes are killers.

No other profession are you painted with a broad brush like the police.

Training is one thing, but I also think in alot of these big cities you have mayors that have their own agenda and are probably demanding the police chief tell their people to do something opposite of their training ie what s happening in New York with Deblassio.

---

There's an obvious difference between a doctor not providing adequate care and a police officer intentionally inflicting mortal harm on someone.

1,100 Americans die at the hands of police every year. We can do better.

In cities where price are given appropriate use-of-force training, the numbers of citizens harmed by police fall.

Police have a very hard and often thankless job, and most police need to be trained better. When they are, the results speak for themselves.

---

The results being burned down businesses, looting, attacking police officers, murdering police officers. Great results where big cities hamstring their police.

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Its a tough job because there are bad or crooked accountants, lawyers, insurance salesman, teachers, professors, bar owners, pastors, doctors.


In every profession there are bad apples, but you dont go into your doctor's office and spit on his face because there was one bad doctor in Texas that was horrible at this job and accidently killed somebody.

When Rae Carruth killed his pregnant wife I dont think people assumed all athletes are killers.

No other profession are you painted with a broad brush like the police.

Training is one thing, but I also think in alot of these big cities you have mayors that have their own agenda and are probably demanding the police chief tell their people to do something opposite of their training ie what s happening in New York with Deblassio.

---

There's an obvious difference between a doctor not providing adequate care and a police officer intentionally inflicting mortal harm on someone.

1,100 Americans die at the hands of police every year. We can do better.

In cities where price are given appropriate use-of-force training, the numbers of citizens harmed by police fall.

Police have a very hard and often thankless job, and most police need to be trained better. When they are, the results speak for themselves.

---

The results being burned down businesses, looting, attacking police officers, murdering police officers. Great results where big cities hamstring their police.

---

I'll go where the data leads us.

Show me data that indicates conflict de-escalation and use-of-force training by police correlates with a higher overall crime rate.

Or stop making stuff up, whichever.

---

packgrad said:

---

Making stuff up? Lol. If you're not smart enough to see what's happening in NYC, for example, then me explaining it to you on a message board isn't going to help.

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Making stuff up? Lol. If you're not smart enough to see what's happening in NYC, for example, then me explaining it to you on a message board isn't going to help.

---

Civil unrest has been occasionally happening throughout the history of our country. It's sporadic, not indicative of normal times, and not something you base broad policing policies off of.

You won't show me data that indicates use-of-force training results in higher crime, because that data doesn't exist.

Because use-of-force doesn't result in higher crime. It just results in fewer people being killed by police, which is win-win.

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

1100 Americans die at the hands of police each year.
Most are white.
Most, the police did nothing wrong.
The questionable ones are very, very few when you consider the millions of police/public interactions that happen every year.
And they are even fewer, when you consider that the police are generally dealing with bad people to start with when they end up shooting somebody. When you're chasing down criminals there is a lot bigger chance that it might end up violently. Nature of the job.
It's not like they only write traffic tickets and end up shooting 1100 people as a result.

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Making stuff up? Lol. If you're not smart enough to see what's happening in NYC, for example, then me explaining it to you on a message board isn't going to help.

---

Civil unrest has been occasionally happening throughout the history of our country. It's sporadic, not indicative of normal times, and not something you base broad policing policies off of.

You won't show me data that indicates use-of-force training results in higher crime, because that data doesn't exist.

Because use-of-force doesn't result in higher crime. It just results in fewer people being killed by police, which is win-win.

---

Use of force training has done wonders in big cities this week. Congratulations.

---

Civilized said:

---

Pacfanweb said:

---

1100 Americans die at the hands of police each year.
Most are white.
Most, the police did nothing wrong.
The questionable ones are very, very few when you consider the millions of police/public interactions that happen every year.
And they are even fewer, when you consider that the police are generally dealing with bad people to start with when they end up shooting somebody. When you're chasing down criminals there is a lot bigger chance that it might end up violently. Nature of the job.
It's not like they only write traffic tickets and end up shooting 1100 people as a result.

---

There are almost 6x more white people than black people in this country so you'd expect 'most' police killings to be of white people. In fact, if white people and black people were equally likely to die at the hands of police, 6x more white people than black people would be dying at the hands of police each year.

But that's not what's happening.

Per capita, black Americans are 3x more likely to be killed by police than white people.

Per capita, black Americans are 1.3x more likely to be unarmed compared to white people.

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Making stuff up? Lol. If you're not smart enough to see what's happening in NYC, for example, then me explaining it to you on a message board isn't going to help.

---

Civil unrest has been occasionally happening throughout the history of our country. It's sporadic, not indicative of normal times, and not something you base broad policing policies off of.

You won't show me data that indicates use-of-force training results in higher crime, because that data doesn't exist.

Because use-of-force doesn't result in higher crime. It just results in fewer people being killed by police, which is win-win.

---

Use of force training has done wonders in big cities this week. Congratulations.

---

Why do you keep talking about this week like that's a statistically significant sample size?

Talk to me about the last six or seven years, since de-escalation training has been implemented in departments around the country.

See if your argument holds up.

Preview: It won't.

---