Civilized said:

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hokiewolf said:

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packgrad said:

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👇👇 the entire idea you need an annual covid booster was invented by Pfizer and the folks Biden hired to regulate didn't ask questions https://t.co/xils7G7wwz

— Vinay Prasad MD MPH (@VPrasadMDMPH) November 30, 2023

---

That's what my Dr and I discussed. Why get a booster for something that is no longer circulating in the environment? The boosters now don't seem to be keeping up with the variants, and the variant symptoms are getting better, not worse, which makes sense since the virus doesn't want to kill its host ultimately.

---

Yeah my impression is that boosters are mostly for the elderly or immunocompromised at this point.

It's the only cohort for whom there is a moderate or better net potential benefit.

Science: Should I get a COVID booster?

---

The takeaways I got from the article you linked:

• The most common but still rare side effect is myocarditis, almost always easily treated. Other very rare side effects possible (though that can be said for all vaccines)
• There is debate in the medical community that seems to come down to two camps: The vaccine provides little benefit to young healthy people, or the vaccine benefits outweigh any risks, even for the young.

So adding that all up, worst case getting the vaccine doesn't do much for a young adult with no health problems but likely won't hurt them, best case it will actually benefit them more than not having it. Seems like a net positive to me.

Certainly the same rationale as a flu shot... a 4th grader is also very unlikely to die from the flu, but it does happen once in a while, so better safe than sorry.

Somewhere previously - I've lost track and won't take time to find it - I posted a quote from Yale or Harvard medicine (one of them) reporting that, just because the Covid vaccine was formulated for one particular variant doesn't mean it won't work for a newer variant. Experts say they expect it to be effective again EB.5, one of the more common variants now out there, as well as others.

Sorry, EG.5 not EB.5.

dogplasma said:

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Somewhere previously - I've lost track and won't take time to find it - I posted a quote from Yale or Harvard medicine (one of them) reporting that, just because the Covid vaccine was formulated for one particular variant doesn't mean it won't work for a newer variant. Experts say they expect it to be effective again EB.5, one of the more common variants now out there, as well as others.

---

Oh boy, whowzers. The experts and the scientists say, do they? They cooked up a good formulation this time? Yale and Harvard? They're so much smarter than me. I cede all decision-making to them. I'm a lowly peon, who wouldn't dare to be a conspiracy theorist and disagree with them.

The vaccines are a miracle!!

Why have only 14% of Mericans taken the miracle vaxx????

Putin disinformation via Russian Agent Tucker Carlson….gotta be!

What a time to be a pharmaceutical executive. People invested so much of their identity into your product so they could shame those they disagreed with and those they did not align with politically, the pharmaceutical company could literally sell sugar pills saying it minimizes the effects of Covid and the sheep would agree.

Dollar, dollar bills.

Oldsouljer said:

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There is a decent probability that this outbreak, which seems to be caused by known pathogens, is the inevitable and predictable result of naivetized immune systems coming out of prolonged lockdowns. We had a spike of respiratory outbreaks last year, too.

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The one thing I'm sure of .......I will no longer take jabs of unknown substance from Big Pharma.

My innate immune system remains intact.

SmaptyWolf said:

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Civilized said:

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hokiewolf said:

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packgrad said:

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👇👇 the entire idea you need an annual covid booster was invented by Pfizer and the folks Biden hired to regulate didn't ask questions https://t.co/xils7G7wwz

— Vinay Prasad MD MPH (@VPrasadMDMPH) November 30, 2023

---

That's what my Dr and I discussed. Why get a booster for something that is no longer circulating in the environment? The boosters now don't seem to be keeping up with the variants, and the variant symptoms are getting better, not worse, which makes sense since the virus doesn't want to kill its host ultimately.

---

Yeah my impression is that boosters are mostly for the elderly or immunocompromised at this point.

It's the only cohort for whom there is a moderate or better net potential benefit.

Science: Should I get a COVID booster?

---

The takeaways I got from the article you linked:

• The most common but still rare side effect is myocarditis, almost always easily treated. Other very rare side effects possible (though that can be said for all vaccines)
• There is debate in the medical community that seems to come down to two camps: The vaccine provides little benefit to young healthy people, or the vaccine benefits outweigh any risks, even for the young.

So adding that all up, worst case getting the vaccine doesn't do much for a young adult with no health problems but likely won't hurt them, best case it will actually benefit them more than not having it. Seems like a net positive to me.

Certainly the same rationale as a flu shot... a 4th grader is also very unlikely to die from the flu, but it does happen once in a while, so better safe than sorry.

---

The main difference between the flu shot and Covid booster to me is the transmissibility piece.

Most all of us have had at least one round of Covid vax and also, due to the extreme transmissibility of Omicron, also have caught COVID in the last year or two (many of us have had it multiple times) so we are walking around with a ton of natural immunity.

Not true for "normal" flu. I haven't had the normal flu in 20 years so to me there's a lot more upside in a flu shot than a Covid booster.

As with all health decisions, especially if there are any risk factors due to age or underlying health conditions, it just makes sense to brainstorm this with your doctor.

I go to a direct primary care doc in Raleigh. He and his partners provide really thorough, thoughtful care. Not uncommon for him to spend well over an hour with me during my yearly physical and most of that isn't spent poring over labs, or him taking notes; it's talking about my physical, mental, and emotional health, my family, my work, etc. - basically everything that's consequential in my life and to my health. They're a throwback to when doctors would make house calls (which they also do for their very ill patients) and their approach to medicine is truly health care, not just sick care.

Their practice issued their patients a letter in October regarding their guidance boosters. I'm posting it below for anyone that's interested. I won't editorialize except to say they shot straight.

Quote:

---

Dear Clinic Members,

One year ago I wrote an update on Covid that I had hoped might be my last clinic-wide communication on the topic. Alas, I find myself writing again, and I will forbear this time from speculating as to whether it will be the last time. With the number of calls we receive from our patients about the new Covid booster, as well as about the RSV vaccine, we know that people have questions and would like our advice. I enter into this writing with some trepidation, knowing that Covid is one of those topics where middle ground has been hard to find and that I am certain to make some people upset with our thoughts and recommendations. It is part of a doctor's job to tell people things they don't want to hear, though, so we do have some practice at provoking patients' ire. The opinions stated here reflect our shared approach to Covid and RSV vaccines.

I am not going to write you a statistical analysis of the Covid vaccine studies, as that data level of understanding is available to folks outside the medical profession, and some of our patients are more proficient statisticians than I am. What we doctors can uniquely offer when it comes to Covid is experience. While most of you have had some first-hand experience of Covid and Covid vaccinations, we have seen hundreds of cases of Covid and hundreds of patients with Covid vaccinations. We also admit our patients to the hospital and have friends and colleagues in the medical community such that we have second-hand knowledge of other doctors' experiences of seeing hundreds and thousands of patients. Though experience may be less "scientific" than statistical analyses of data, in our bewildering and cacophonous world of media overload, personal lived experience is increasingly valuable in the pursuit of truth.

So what has been our experience? Covid made many of our patients very sick in 2020 and 2021. We had a number of patients gravely ill and hospitalized due to Covid in those years, though none of our clinic members died as a direct result of Covid. All of my hospital admissions were in patients who got sick before the vaccines came out or who later chose not to get the vaccine. None of my vaccinated patients got sick enough to require hospitalization. The efficacy of the vaccines to prevent severe illness from Covid that was reported in scientific journals and in the lay press was affirmed in our clinical experience. We did see some adverse reactions to the vaccine, but all resolved with time, and overall the benefits seemed to clearly outweigh the harms.

Since 2022, though, the illness has become both increasingly prevalent and increasingly mild. The vast majority of our patients have had at least one bout with Covid by now, and since 2022 none have been hospitalized or gravely ill. Our patients run the gamut from very young to very old, very healthy to very ill, and none of those folks have had severe illness from Covid. Covid is no longer a new virus to us, and we now have natural and vaccine induced immunity. Because the illness is more mild, it has become more difficult to discern the benefit from additional Covid vaccinations. The vaccine is known not to stop people from contracting the illness, only diminish the severity of illness. When the illness is not severe in the first place, it is hard to know if further vaccinations are doing much for us. As we reported last year, travelers in summer 2022 were almost guaranteed to contract Covid regardless of when they had their last booster, and late summer and early fall 2023 has been much the same.

Given that the threat level is so much lower and the incremental benefit of Covid boosters much harder to discern, we find it hard to pressure our patients to have the booster. While the risk of the immunization remains low, the risk of the illness is now also low such that it is somewhat of a wash as to whether the vaccine is more apt to hurt or help you. You will have to decide which risk you prefer to take, but don't spend too much time agonizing over the decision, as both the risk of the vaccine and the risk of the illness are low at this point. While there was initial hope that getting the vaccine would protect people around you from Covid by decreasing your risk for transmitting it, that has not been borne out. The choice to get the vaccine or not should be based on your sense of YOUR OWN risk not the risk of people around you.

---

Slippery Sieve has spoken.........now a measured voice of reason. LOL

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

How well it works: The 2023-2024 updated vaccines were approved based on preclinical studies of their efficacy against the latest circulating strains. Some people may still become infected even though they have been vaccinated, but the goal of the vaccines now is to prevent severe disease, hospitalization, and death. Research has suggested that people who are infected after vaccination also are less likely to report Long COVID compared to those who were not vaccinated.

To support its 2023-2024 updated shot, Moderna shared clinical trial data that showed a strong immune response against some of the variants that are common now, including XBB.1.5, EG.5, and FL.1.5.1. Antibody responses after vaccination were about 17-times higher against XBB 1.5 and about 10-times higher against BA.2.86.

In its recommendations for the most recent vaccines, the CDC also cited a study showing the risk of cardiac complications, including myocarditis (an inflammation of the heart muscle), in males 12-17 years old was 1.85.6 times higher after a COVID infection compared to after COVID vaccination.

Moderna's initial Phase 3 clinical data in December 2020 was similar to Pfizer-BioNTech'sboth vaccines showed about 95% efficacy for prevention of COVID. Later data on real-world effectiveness for adults showed that the protection from the mRNA two-dose primary series wanes over time, but booster doses brought the immune system back to robust levels.

packgrad said:

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That's great that Yale medicine can essentially copy and paste Pfizer and Moderna reports on efficacy of vaccine.

Anyone still saying that the booster/vaccine protects against severe disease, hospitalization , or death from Covid are basically propagandists at this point.

---

"Some people may still become infected even though they have been vaccinated, but the goal of the vaccines now is to prevent severe disease, hospitalization, and death".

Man... I wished that my smallpox, measles, german measles, etc. vaccines worked as good as that...

Plus, who decided when now was?... now only became necessary for the narrative after the vaccines didn't do what they promised everyone they would do... and how does when now starts to get inserted as the excuse, that we are told that now really happened way back then and that "we" just weren't remembering correctly .

packgrad said:

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That's great that Yale medicine can essentially copy and paste Pfizer and Moderna reports on efficacy of vaccine.

Anyone still saying that the booster/vaccine protects against severe disease, hospitalization , or death from Covid are basically propagandists at this point.

---

Reminds me of a statin drug advert that I once saw in a medical journal while waiting in the doctors office. It was crafted just like a peer-reviewed paper, subtly praising the effectiveness of statins, and only after reading the whole thing did I realize it was just an advertisement.

Civilized said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

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👇👇 the entire idea you need an annual covid booster was invented by Pfizer and the folks Biden hired to regulate didn't ask questions https://t.co/xils7G7wwz

— Vinay Prasad MD MPH (@VPrasadMDMPH) November 30, 2023

---

That's what my Dr and I discussed. Why get a booster for something that is no longer circulating in the environment? The boosters now don't seem to be keeping up with the variants, and the variant symptoms are getting better, not worse, which makes sense since the virus doesn't want to kill its host ultimately.

---

Yeah my impression is that boosters are mostly for the elderly or immunocompromised at this point.

It's the only cohort for whom there is a moderate or better net potential benefit.

Science: Should I get a COVID booster?

---

The takeaways I got from the article you linked:

• The most common but still rare side effect is myocarditis, almost always easily treated. Other very rare side effects possible (though that can be said for all vaccines)
• There is debate in the medical community that seems to come down to two camps: The vaccine provides little benefit to young healthy people, or the vaccine benefits outweigh any risks, even for the young.

So adding that all up, worst case getting the vaccine doesn't do much for a young adult with no health problems but likely won't hurt them, best case it will actually benefit them more than not having it. Seems like a net positive to me.

Certainly the same rationale as a flu shot... a 4th grader is also very unlikely to die from the flu, but it does happen once in a while, so better safe than sorry.

---

The main difference between the flu shot and Covid booster to me is the transmissibility piece.

Most all of us have had at least one round of Covid vax and also, due to the extreme transmissibility of Omicron, also have caught COVID in the last year or two (many of us have had it multiple times) so we are walking around with a ton of natural immunity.

Not true for "normal" flu. I haven't had the normal flu in 20 years so to me there's a lot more upside in a flu shot than a Covid booster.

As with all health decisions, especially if there are any risk factors due to age or underlying health conditions, it just makes sense to brainstorm this with your doctor.

I go to a direct primary care doc in Raleigh. He and his partners provide really thorough, thoughtful care. Not uncommon for him to spend well over an hour with me during my yearly physical and most of that isn't spent poring over labs, or him taking notes; it's talking about my physical, mental, and emotional health, my family, my work, etc. - basically everything that's consequential in my life and to my health. They're a throwback to when doctors would make house calls (which they also do for their very ill patients) and their approach to medicine is truly health care, not just sick care.

Their practice issued their patients a letter in October regarding their guidance boosters. I'm posting it below for anyone that's interested. I won't editorialize except to say they shot straight.

Quote:

---

Dear Clinic Members,

One year ago I wrote an update on Covid that I had hoped might be my last clinic-wide communication on the topic. Alas, I find myself writing again, and I will forbear this time from speculating as to whether it will be the last time. With the number of calls we receive from our patients about the new Covid booster, as well as about the RSV vaccine, we know that people have questions and would like our advice. I enter into this writing with some trepidation, knowing that Covid is one of those topics where middle ground has been hard to find and that I am certain to make some people upset with our thoughts and recommendations. It is part of a doctor's job to tell people things they don't want to hear, though, so we do have some practice at provoking patients' ire. The opinions stated here reflect our shared approach to Covid and RSV vaccines.

I am not going to write you a statistical analysis of the Covid vaccine studies, as that data level of understanding is available to folks outside the medical profession, and some of our patients are more proficient statisticians than I am. What we doctors can uniquely offer when it comes to Covid is experience. While most of you have had some first-hand experience of Covid and Covid vaccinations, we have seen hundreds of cases of Covid and hundreds of patients with Covid vaccinations. We also admit our patients to the hospital and have friends and colleagues in the medical community such that we have second-hand knowledge of other doctors' experiences of seeing hundreds and thousands of patients. Though experience may be less "scientific" than statistical analyses of data, in our bewildering and cacophonous world of media overload, personal lived experience is increasingly valuable in the pursuit of truth.

So what has been our experience? Covid made many of our patients very sick in 2020 and 2021. We had a number of patients gravely ill and hospitalized due to Covid in those years, though none of our clinic members died as a direct result of Covid. All of my hospital admissions were in patients who got sick before the vaccines came out or who later chose not to get the vaccine. None of my vaccinated patients got sick enough to require hospitalization. The efficacy of the vaccines to prevent severe illness from Covid that was reported in scientific journals and in the lay press was affirmed in our clinical experience. We did see some adverse reactions to the vaccine, but all resolved with time, and overall the benefits seemed to clearly outweigh the harms.

Since 2022, though, the illness has become both increasingly prevalent and increasingly mild. The vast majority of our patients have had at least one bout with Covid by now, and since 2022 none have been hospitalized or gravely ill. Our patients run the gamut from very young to very old, very healthy to very ill, and none of those folks have had severe illness from Covid. Covid is no longer a new virus to us, and we now have natural and vaccine induced immunity. Because the illness is more mild, it has become more difficult to discern the benefit from additional Covid vaccinations. The vaccine is known not to stop people from contracting the illness, only diminish the severity of illness. When the illness is not severe in the first place, it is hard to know if further vaccinations are doing much for us. As we reported last year, travelers in summer 2022 were almost guaranteed to contract Covid regardless of when they had their last booster, and late summer and early fall 2023 has been much the same.

Given that the threat level is so much lower and the incremental benefit of Covid boosters much harder to discern, we find it hard to pressure our patients to have the booster. While the risk of the immunization remains low, the risk of the illness is now also low such that it is somewhat of a wash as to whether the vaccine is more apt to hurt or help you. You will have to decide which risk you prefer to take, but don't spend too much time agonizing over the decision, as both the risk of the vaccine and the risk of the illness are low at this point. While there was initial hope that getting the vaccine would protect people around you from Covid by decreasing your risk for transmitting it, that has not been borne out. The choice to get the vaccine or not should be based on your sense of YOUR OWN risk not the risk of people around you.

---

---

"Though experience may be less "scientific" than statistical analyses of data, in our bewildering and cacophonous world of media overload, personal lived experience is increasingly valuable in the pursuit of truth."

I believe that was an exact quote from GuerillaPack while he was explaining in detail how the Earth is flat.

I kid! I'm sure your doctor is 1000% more sane than GP.

I do think when some doctors discuss Covid they make it seem like either you'll be hospitalized, or it will be completely harmless. But there seems to be a lot of data now that a non-trivial number of even young, healthy people are having bad outcomes that don't involve hospitalization, ranging from losing your sense of taste, all the way up to various organ failures, chronic fatigue, crippling brain fog, etc. Perhaps he's not seeing any of that, or not connecting symptoms to a post-viral syndrome, but it's a pretty common topic among epidemiologists and researchers. I'd assume until that gets ironed out it's fair to say that Covid is significantly more likely to harm you than the vaccine, and anything you can do to top off waning immunity and reduce symptoms is probably a good idea.

But who knows, when the research fog of war ultimately clears he may be right that a yearly boost isn't necessary. But it might be.

A special treat 4 theSieve and Nappy.

Kissinger ✡️ quote: 👇 pic.twitter.com/PKGzk5mvxB

— ⚡☀️sLOVEnia 🇸🇮☀️⚡ (@occultni) November 30, 2023

SmaptyWolf said:

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"Though experience may be less "scientific" than statistical analyses of data, in our bewildering and cacophonous world of media overload, personal lived experience is increasingly valuable in the pursuit of truth."

I believe that was an exact quote from GuerillaPack while he was explaining in detail how the Earth is flat.

---

In regards to most most important issues we face, when you boil it all down it really does come down to either:

1. having blind and unquestioning faith in the supposed "experts", "scientists", and "authorities" that the Establishment powers-that-be condition people to trust

or

2. a person choosing to actually use their own brain and think for themselves -- which makes them a "conspiracy theorist" for daring to question and disagree with the Establishment's supposed "authoritative experts"

99% of people following the "official" narrative (on covid, heliocentric theory or Big Bang and evolution theory "science", etc) do not know or understand virtually any of the technical information or arguments being presented for the position that they are falling in line with. They don't know how the covid "vaccines" work, or even what the actual ingredients in those vaccines are. They couldn't tell you a single "proof" for the supposed Big Bang or evolution.

They just believe what the the people on TV and in supposed positions of "authority" tell them to believe. No questions asked. Whoever is wearing a suit or labcoat, and is presented by "society" as an "authority" is their god.

packgrad said:

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I bet every person suffering from chronic fatigue or crippling brain fog as a result of Covid is a registered Democrat.

---

One thing is for sure… of the million+ excess deaths we had during the pandemic, a solid majority were registered Republicans. So high five, you really owned the libs.

SmaptyWolf said:

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packgrad said:

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I bet every person suffering from chronic fatigue or crippling brain fog as a result of Covid is a registered Democrat.

---

One thing is for sure… of the million+ excess deaths we had during the pandemic, a solid majority were registered Republicans. So high five, you really owned the libs.

---

The excess deaths started after the covid vaxx rollout and are being caused by the "vaccines". All the real data shows that those who have been vaxxed are more likely to "get infected with covid", and have serious illness including death.

packgrad said:

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I bet every person suffering from chronic fatigue or crippling brain fog as a result of Covid is a registered Democrat.

---

I'm sure. Makes sense. That definitely explains the millions of long COVID cases around the world including the Democratic strongholds of Russia and China.

I assume this is the corollary for all the lying doctors that maintain that the COVID vaccine has clinical benefits for their patients being registered Democrats?

Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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I bet every person suffering from chronic fatigue or crippling brain fog as a result of Covid is a registered Democrat.

---

I'm sure. Makes sense. That definitely explains the millions of long COVID cases around the world including the Democratic strongholds of Russia and China.

I assume this is the corollary for all the lying doctors that maintain that the COVID vaccine has clinical benefits for their patients being registered Democrats?

---

China is a Democrat party stronghold. The political ideology of both communist China and the Democrat party is rooted in Marxism.

Both China and libtarded Democrats revere and worship wearing face diapers, with masks being holy objects used to signal their ritual worship of their communist tyrant overlords.

packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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I bet every person suffering from chronic fatigue or crippling brain fog as a result of Covid is a registered Democrat.

---

I'm sure. Makes sense. That definitely explains the millions of long COVID cases around the world including the Democratic strongholds of Russia and China.

I assume this is the corollary for all the lying doctors that maintain that the COVID vaccine has clinical benefits for their patients being registered Democrats?

---

Long covid. lol. A mental condition like your transgenderism.

The medical profession has earned the distrust they have now. If your doctor wants to pretend his was the one practice in America that had zero vaccinated patients hospitalized he has a willing sheep in you. So cheers to him for that.

Baaaa, pretindependent.

---

My doc also said their practice didn't have any unvaxxed patients die.

If he's lying about vaxxed patients not being hospitalized why wouldn't he double down and also lie and say he had unvaxxed patients die? In for a penny, in for a pound amirite?

Such a bizarre and cynical take that three medical doctors, three nurses, and their support staff would conspire to publish a letter openly saying that they don't broadly recommend the recent booster because the cost/benefit doesn't justify it for most of their patients but then turn around in the same letter and lie to their patients about their clinical experience with vaccination helping their patients avoid hospitalization earlier in the pandemic.

Why would they lie about early vaccine efficacy in a letter whose primary intent was to tell their patients they didn't broadly recommend boosters now?

Literally, how would that conversation amongst them go? Do they call a meeting and sit around a table and strategize and decide to all sign their name to a letter they know is a lie? Or is it just understood, wink and a nod kind of stuff that they need to lie to the patients that trust them and pay them to be cared for?

That take is so bizarre and unlikely in fact that it's quite obvious that's not what happened.

Going back to long COVID, so the millions of people around the world that have it are all suffering from a mental condition?

What condition is that, exactly?

Yes, clownfish.

GuerrillaPack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I bet every person suffering from chronic fatigue or crippling brain fog as a result of Covid is a registered Democrat.

---

One thing is for sure… of the million+ excess deaths we had during the pandemic, a solid majority were registered Republicans. So high five, you really owned the libs.

---

The excess deaths started after the covid vaxx rollout and are being caused by the "vaccines". All the real data shows that those who have been vaxxed are more likely to "get infected with covid", and have serious illness including death.

---

NYC was the first major American city to get hit by the pandemic. We were introduced to the concept of "morgue trucks", lined up around every hospital. Apparently they were packed full of mannequins to keep up the hoax... in fact, in a show of solidarity, department stores around the country loaned us their mannequins. At the peak in early April 2020, NYC was packing 800 mannequins a day in those trucks.

So...

Civ is posting saying that the providers at his primary care practice are saying that not one single patient of their practice that was vaccinated died from what would have been classified at that time as covid complications* (*which remember, means only testing positive)?

That's f'n hilarious.

TheStorm said:

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So...

Civ is posting saying that the providers at his primary care practice are saying that not one single patient of their practice that was vaccinated died from what would have been classified at that time as covid complications* (*which remember, means only testing positive)?

That's f'n hilarious.

---

No.

They're saying none of their patients, vaxxed or unvaxxed, died.

Civilized said:

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TheStorm said:

---

So...

Civ is posting saying that the providers at his primary care practice are saying that not one single patient of their practice that was vaccinated died from what would have been classified at that time as covid complications* (*which remember, means only testing positive)?

That's f'n hilarious.

---

No.

They're saying none of their patients, vaxxed or unvaxxed, died.

---

Though I doubt very highly that, despite his lived experience, he believes that nobody else died from Covid over the last three years.

Kissinger and the gang still need sheeple like Sieve and Nappy. Once sheeple always sheeple. Humor us more.

Henry Kissinger quote! pic.twitter.com/NdfJD4q2b5

— Mike S (@Mikesbonito) November 30, 2023