Yeah - my son was supposed to be in TK at a public school last year but we kept him in daycare instead because what the hell is virtual TK anyways? If in the future he can be vaccinated and we don't have to deal with shutdowns / loss of time at work / things like that, it makes it more likely he'll get vaccinated. He also flipped out getting COVID tests, so if this would prevent additional testing in the future it would be worth it.Mormad said:
I don't think it's disgusting at all. The disgusting effects of this pandemic go so far beyond the hospitalization and death data. The inconveniences like quarantines, lost work, 7days of feeling like sht, closures, remote schooling, etc are, to me, reasonable reasons to have my family vaccinated. And if she has to mask indoors, but can stay in person and not quarantine every time a kid coughs it's worth it. Sometimes we forget with these tweets that the overall cost to these kids goes well beyond the risk of severe disease vs the risk of side effects of the vaccination. Risk of severe disease wins that battle every time (lower risk). But if we include risk covid will screw up your life for a time (likely more than once with quarantines considered) and inconvenience us in all the ways we complain about here vs the risk of SEs from vaccination, the fight becomes a little more fair. So i don't think it's disgusting at all. If my kids had had SEs, I'm sure I'd sing a different tune.
Coronavirus
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Last: 2 days ago by Werewolf
Oldsouljer said:I think that the difference of opinions in this matter correlate with those whom live for day-to-day convenience and aren't conscience of, or care about, long term threats to personal liberties versus those people who see the bigger picture and are fighting today's imposed measures against tomorrow's permanent loss of those liberties.Mormad said:Wayland said:That is a driving force I think for a lot of child COVID vaccinations. I am not sure forced inconvenience is a good justification and here I am in the exact same boat. Especially since some of the issues seem to be tending towards younger males (as rare as they may be).statefan91 said:
I could go either way wtih vaxxing my 5 soon to be 6 year old. He has already had COVID in December when we all got it.
The CDC recommendations still require classroom shutdown if there is a confirmed case and he is required to be in quarantine for 14 days. Honestly, it's terrible for parents and for the kids to be trying to work during that time, not see family and friends and not be at school / daycare. So if vaccination moves him into a category where he doesn't have to do that every time there's a case or exposure, then that's definitely something I will consider.
At this point, my son has had his first dose, and the main motivation behind a second dose is so we aren't inconvenienced.... and that feels a little disgusting to me. That being said, if he is being held to the same theater rules vaxxed or not.... I don't see a risk benefit to him getting a second dose... sorry... just isn't there.
I don't think it's disgusting at all. The disgusting effects of this pandemic go so far beyond the hospitalization and death data. The inconveniences like quarantines, lost work, 7days of feeling like sht, closures, remote schooling, etc are, to me, reasonable reasons to have my family vaccinated. And if she has to mask indoors, but can stay in person and not quarantine every time a kid coughs it's worth it. Sometimes we forget with these tweets that the overall cost to these kids goes well beyond the risk of severe disease vs the risk of side effects of the vaccination. Risk of severe disease wins that battle every time (lower risk). But if we include risk covid will screw up your life for a time (likely more than once with quarantines considered) and inconvenience us in all the ways we complain about here vs the risk of SEs from vaccination, the fight becomes a little more fair. So i don't think it's disgusting at all. If my kids had had SEs, I'm sure I'd sing a different tune.
I'm sorry, bud, I'm really not trying to be dumb. Not sure i understand... Permanent loss of what liberties?
I'm merely pointing out that the popular response to the COVID incident varies depending on whether one is merely concerned with convenience and perceived safety or whether one takes the long view and is on guard against a governmental slide towards authoritarianism using COVID as a pretext.Mormad said:Oldsouljer said:I think that the difference of opinions in this matter correlate with those whom live for day-to-day convenience and aren't conscience of, or care about, long term threats to personal liberties versus those people who see the bigger picture and are fighting today's imposed measures against tomorrow's permanent loss of those liberties.Mormad said:Wayland said:That is a driving force I think for a lot of child COVID vaccinations. I am not sure forced inconvenience is a good justification and here I am in the exact same boat. Especially since some of the issues seem to be tending towards younger males (as rare as they may be).statefan91 said:
I could go either way wtih vaxxing my 5 soon to be 6 year old. He has already had COVID in December when we all got it.
The CDC recommendations still require classroom shutdown if there is a confirmed case and he is required to be in quarantine for 14 days. Honestly, it's terrible for parents and for the kids to be trying to work during that time, not see family and friends and not be at school / daycare. So if vaccination moves him into a category where he doesn't have to do that every time there's a case or exposure, then that's definitely something I will consider.
At this point, my son has had his first dose, and the main motivation behind a second dose is so we aren't inconvenienced.... and that feels a little disgusting to me. That being said, if he is being held to the same theater rules vaxxed or not.... I don't see a risk benefit to him getting a second dose... sorry... just isn't there.
I don't think it's disgusting at all. The disgusting effects of this pandemic go so far beyond the hospitalization and death data. The inconveniences like quarantines, lost work, 7days of feeling like sht, closures, remote schooling, etc are, to me, reasonable reasons to have my family vaccinated. And if she has to mask indoors, but can stay in person and not quarantine every time a kid coughs it's worth it. Sometimes we forget with these tweets that the overall cost to these kids goes well beyond the risk of severe disease vs the risk of side effects of the vaccination. Risk of severe disease wins that battle every time (lower risk). But if we include risk covid will screw up your life for a time (likely more than once with quarantines considered) and inconvenience us in all the ways we complain about here vs the risk of SEs from vaccination, the fight becomes a little more fair. So i don't think it's disgusting at all. If my kids had had SEs, I'm sure I'd sing a different tune.
I'm sorry, bud, I'm really not trying to be dumb. Not sure i understand... Permanent loss of what liberties?
Are you saying someone is on board with an authoritarian government if they get a vaccine? Not sure I'm following.Oldsouljer said:I'm merely pointing out that the popular response to the COVID incident varies depending on whether one is merely concerned with convenience and perceived safety or whether one takes the long view and is on guard against a governmental slide towards authoritarianism using COVID as a pretext.Mormad said:
I'm sorry, bud, I'm really not trying to be dumb. Not sure i understand... Permanent loss of what liberties?
Unrelated and on the data front. Keep an eye on areas SE NC this week. They were the first to heat up in this wave. Some of the indicators last week showed that Cumberland may have been close to a roll over. Was waiting to see if anything crazy came out of the weekend there and it seems a little quieter than other areas of the state.
A number of other counties appear in decline in growth rate, but not quite at the roll over.
Definitely worth keeping an eye on.
A number of other counties appear in decline in growth rate, but not quite at the roll over.
Definitely worth keeping an eye on.
I see what your saying. Thanks. That's certainly two views, but I'd argue not the only 2 views. Most of my peers (that i talk to) are pro-vax, pro-mask, anti-inconvenience but with a long term 30,000 foot view of covid and anti-authoritarianism. But i think we're better suited to separate the medical from the political compared to much of the population. Most of the docs i know are fairly conservative folks.
I'LL add for general conversation: Want to stop the ability of government to use covid as a pretext to authoritarianism? Vote Pub or get rid of covid. The good doctor thinks vaccines will only create resistance but thinks we should vaccinate the at risk because it's a small slice of the population. The elderly are 42.4% now. Obesity runs rampant. Too many Americans have hypertension, diabetes, and COPD, and then have stage 2-4 kidney disease secondary to these issues. All of a sudden we're vaccinating the majority of Americans because the at-risk population out numbers the healthy, many of whom still want the vax. So I'm not sure that argument holds water no matter how smart it sounds. And what breeds more resistance? Vaccines that hopefully eradicate the virus by stopping transmission or continued spread with continued replication and potential alteration of viral DNA? He says it's genetics 101. I'm not sure it's so clear.
An interesting question remains: in a perfect world, if you could dismiss politics and could convince yourself the vaccines are safe, would you be vaccinated to hopefully end all the BS?
I'LL add for general conversation: Want to stop the ability of government to use covid as a pretext to authoritarianism? Vote Pub or get rid of covid. The good doctor thinks vaccines will only create resistance but thinks we should vaccinate the at risk because it's a small slice of the population. The elderly are 42.4% now. Obesity runs rampant. Too many Americans have hypertension, diabetes, and COPD, and then have stage 2-4 kidney disease secondary to these issues. All of a sudden we're vaccinating the majority of Americans because the at-risk population out numbers the healthy, many of whom still want the vax. So I'm not sure that argument holds water no matter how smart it sounds. And what breeds more resistance? Vaccines that hopefully eradicate the virus by stopping transmission or continued spread with continued replication and potential alteration of viral DNA? He says it's genetics 101. I'm not sure it's so clear.
An interesting question remains: in a perfect world, if you could dismiss politics and could convince yourself the vaccines are safe, would you be vaccinated to hopefully end all the BS?
Just a reference to people in general and their differing and often opposing priorities. No jab at any particular person on the board. But yes, I do think there are a lot of unconcerned people out there where the future is concerned.statefan91 said:Are you saying someone is on board with an authoritarian government if they get a vaccine? Not sure I'm following.Oldsouljer said:I'm merely pointing out that the popular response to the COVID incident varies depending on whether one is merely concerned with convenience and perceived safety or whether one takes the long view and is on guard against a governmental slide towards authoritarianism using COVID as a pretext.Mormad said:
I'm sorry, bud, I'm really not trying to be dumb. Not sure i understand... Permanent loss of what liberties?
The truth on all this is that it is all political! The political outcry's causes people to do stupid things. The vaccines were never intended, by logical vaccinologist, to be used on everyone. They were to be used only on the vulnerable!
These logical people believe you "CANNOT" vaccinate into the teeth of a pandemic! So, we should have vaccinated the vulnerable and treat the infected with proper therapeutics (heavily). The virus is going to jump and mutate to the least path of resistance. Also, this virus will "NEVER" go away!!!! Over time, it will become so,etching similar to the flu!
You all really need to start thinking differently! The group think authoritarians are loving this debate! They WIN!!!
These logical people believe you "CANNOT" vaccinate into the teeth of a pandemic! So, we should have vaccinated the vulnerable and treat the infected with proper therapeutics (heavily). The virus is going to jump and mutate to the least path of resistance. Also, this virus will "NEVER" go away!!!! Over time, it will become so,etching similar to the flu!
You all really need to start thinking differently! The group think authoritarians are loving this debate! They WIN!!!
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
Actually, I am concerned about the future! Everybody getting jabs are going to cause this virus to hang on longer than it needs to...Oldsouljer said:Just a reference to people in general and their differing and often opposing priorities. No jab at any particular person on the board. But yes, I do think there are a lot of unconcerned people out there where the future is concerned.statefan91 said:Are you saying someone is on board with an authoritarian government if they get a vaccine? Not sure I'm following.Oldsouljer said:I'm merely pointing out that the popular response to the COVID incident varies depending on whether one is merely concerned with convenience and perceived safety or whether one takes the long view and is on guard against a governmental slide towards authoritarianism using COVID as a pretext.Mormad said:
I'm sorry, bud, I'm really not trying to be dumb. Not sure i understand... Permanent loss of what liberties?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
And therein lies the rub, saying that you are 'pro' or 'anti' something in the macro sense allows for no nuance.Mormad said:
I see what your saying. Thanks. That's certainly two views, but I'd argue not the only 2 views. Most of my peers (that i talk to) are pro-vax, pro-mask, anti-inconvenience but with a long term 30,000 foot view of covid and anti-authoritarianism. But i think we're better suited to separate the medical from the political compared to much of the population. Most of the docs i know are fairly conservative folks.
And I am not picking on your specifically.
I would say that I am very pro-vax when you account for risk stratification and while I would certainly think stone cold lock over 65 (over 50 even) and even the vast majority of adults. I am super skeptical about the benefits outweighing the risks for kids. I like the earlier UK recommendation that at-risk only under 18 seems reasonable. Does that make me anti-vax OR am I pro-vax with the understanding that we should weigh risks and unknowns?
I think mask mandates are dumb and the level and type of masking people do provides little to no benefit. Slapping a piece of cloth on the mouth of a 6 year-old for 8 hours a day, probably zero effect for a aerosolized virus. Nationwide data last year showed effectively no difference in overall transmission rates of schools with and without masks. (Read Prasad's latest opinion piece in MedPage on the lack of RCT). Do I think properly fitted high grade masking has benefits in medical and other more 'sterile' environments, sure! But that is not what 'real world' masking is. Real world masking is hot mess of ill fitting dirty rags slapped on faces and enacted to allow those in power a way to appear to do something while deflecting blame off themselves for the fact that they are largely powerless. I guess although I think there is a time and a place for masking... the actual practice for the everyday citizen (and certainly in schools) is pointless. Am I anti-mask or pro-mask where it will ACTUALLY be done properly with benefit? (But to this point, I have politely complied with any order as required or directly requested).
And I certainly don't like to be inconvenienced, who does? Does that mean that I am completely unwilling to do so? Of course not. We have all been greatly inconvenienced in one way or another over the last year, but to what end? We should certainly have tried to quantify what costs/benefits these 'inconveniences' have had over the last year. Kids not being in school isn't an inconvenience anymore, it is something that has literally measurable harms and doesn't actually serve the greater good for disease spread. Am I anti-inconvenience or pro-inconvenience when there is demonstrable benefits which outweigh the disruption? I don't know, but there sure as hell better be a benefit to my inconvenience other than to serve others' agendas.
Nuance.
caryking said:
The truth on all this is that it is all political! The political outcry's causes people to do stupid things. The vaccines were never intended, by logical vaccinologist, to be used on everyone. They were to be used only on the vulnerable!
These logical people believe you "CANNOT" vaccinate into the teeth of a pandemic! So, we should have vaccinated the vulnerable and treat the infected with proper therapeutics (heavily). The virus is going to jump and mutate to the least path of resistance. Also, this virus will "NEVER" go away!!!! Over time, it will become so,etching similar to the flu!
You all really need to start thinking differently! The group think authoritarians are loving this debate! They WIN!!!
What proper therapeutics, Cary?
Unfortunately, the current climate doesn't leave room for nuance. Every issue is black or white, yes or no. The fact is, most people's opinions on things, including doctors and scientists, aren't so separated. Because of the very early politicization of the virus, many experts have admitted that they felt pressured to go in one extreme direction with what they were saying publicly. While their intentions may have been noble, those actions ultimately only undermined their credibility in the eyes of many, and have served to create panic in the eyes of others. I tend to think that had their been more truth and transparency early on, things would be much better now. Just say, wearing a mask isn't foolproof, but probably better than not wearing one. Don't look people in the eye and lie and tell them that any face covering is going to save themselves and their loved ones from covid. Just tell the truth, wherever that leads, whether it's politically convenient or not.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
The Gatekeeper.
Homer Dumbarse.
StateFan2001 will probably respond to this because he isn't smart enough to understand how ignore works.
The Gatekeeper.
Homer Dumbarse.
StateFan2001 will probably respond to this because he isn't smart enough to understand how ignore works.
Wayland said:And therein lies the rub, saying that you are 'pro' or 'anti' something in the macro sense allows for no nuance.Mormad said:
I see what your saying. Thanks. That's certainly two views, but I'd argue not the only 2 views. Most of my peers (that i talk to) are pro-vax, pro-mask, anti-inconvenience but with a long term 30,000 foot view of covid and anti-authoritarianism. But i think we're better suited to separate the medical from the political compared to much of the population. Most of the docs i know are fairly conservative folks.
And I am not picking on your specifically.
I would say that I am very pro-vax when you account for risk stratification and while I would certainly think stone cold lock over 65 (over 50 even) and even the vast majority of adults. I am super skeptical about the benefits outweighing the risks for kids. I like the earlier UK recommendation that at-risk only under 18 seems reasonable. Does that make me anti-vax OR am I pro-vax with the understanding that we should weigh risks and unknowns?
I think mask mandates are dumb and the level and type of masking people do provides little to no benefit. Slapping a piece of cloth on the mouth of a 6 year-old for 8 hours a day, probably zero effect for a aerosolized virus. Nationwide data last year showed effectively no difference in overall transmission rates of schools with and without masks. (Read Prasad's latest opinion piece in MedPage on the lack of RCT). Do I think properly fitted high grade masking has benefits in medical and other more 'sterile' environments, sure! But that is not what 'real world' masking is. Real world masking is hot mess of ill fitting dirty rags slapped on faces and enacted to allow those in power a way to appear to do something while deflecting blame off themselves for the fact that they are largely powerless. I guess although I think there is a time and a place for masking... the actual practice for the everyday citizen (and certainly in schools) is pointless. Am I anti-mask or pro-mask where it will ACTUALLY be done properly with benefit? (But to this point, I have politely complied with any order as required or directly requested).
And I certainly don't like to be inconvenienced, who does? Does that mean that I am completely unwilling to do so? Of course not. We have all been greatly inconvenienced in one way or another over the last year, but to what end? We should certainly have tried to quantify what costs/benefits these 'inconveniences' have had over the last year. Kids not being in school isn't an inconvenience anymore, it is something that has literally measurable harms and doesn't actually serve the greater good for disease spread. Am I anti-inconvenience or pro-inconvenience when there is demonstrable benefits which outweigh the disruption? I don't know, but there sure as hell better be a benefit to my inconvenience other than to serve others' agendas.
Nuance.
You're assuming i meant pro means all or none. I didn't. Do you really think the people I'm talking about are incapable of nuance? I think pro would most commonly mean moreso than not? Most here would consider me pro-mask based on my arguments, but I've said over and over I'm against mandates. I just spent a week in Cali and never touched a mask after deplaning. I'm obviously pro-vax but have made it clear i don't think it's necessary for all. I think the majority likely feel like us... These options can be reasonable or less reasonable based on circumstances, but we tend to lean one way or the other. It seems very few are just steadfast in their complete and total opposition to one side's views, like my buddy GP
. Idk, i could be wrong. Watch the videos I shared on Sunday...Mormad said:caryking said:
The truth on all this is that it is all political! The political outcry's causes people to do stupid things. The vaccines were never intended, by logical vaccinologist, to be used on everyone. They were to be used only on the vulnerable!
These logical people believe you "CANNOT" vaccinate into the teeth of a pandemic! So, we should have vaccinated the vulnerable and treat the infected with proper therapeutics (heavily). The virus is going to jump and mutate to the least path of resistance. Also, this virus will "NEVER" go away!!!! Over time, it will become so,etching similar to the flu!
You all really need to start thinking differently! The group think authoritarians are loving this debate! They WIN!!!
What proper therapeutics, Cary?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
And that is why I tried to say this wasn't directed to you per se. I understand we can have a good discussion about this and allow for a significant grey area. And we can agree on a good number of things without necessarily seeing eye to eye on everything... and that is ok.Mormad said:Wayland said:And therein lies the rub, saying that you are 'pro' or 'anti' something in the macro sense allows for no nuance.Mormad said:
I see what your saying. Thanks. That's certainly two views, but I'd argue not the only 2 views. Most of my peers (that i talk to) are pro-vax, pro-mask, anti-inconvenience but with a long term 30,000 foot view of covid and anti-authoritarianism. But i think we're better suited to separate the medical from the political compared to much of the population. Most of the docs i know are fairly conservative folks.
And I am not picking on your specifically.
I would say that I am very pro-vax when you account for risk stratification and while I would certainly think stone cold lock over 65 (over 50 even) and even the vast majority of adults. I am super skeptical about the benefits outweighing the risks for kids. I like the earlier UK recommendation that at-risk only under 18 seems reasonable. Does that make me anti-vax OR am I pro-vax with the understanding that we should weigh risks and unknowns?
I think mask mandates are dumb and the level and type of masking people do provides little to no benefit. Slapping a piece of cloth on the mouth of a 6 year-old for 8 hours a day, probably zero effect for a aerosolized virus. Nationwide data last year showed effectively no difference in overall transmission rates of schools with and without masks. (Read Prasad's latest opinion piece in MedPage on the lack of RCT). Do I think properly fitted high grade masking has benefits in medical and other more 'sterile' environments, sure! But that is not what 'real world' masking is. Real world masking is hot mess of ill fitting dirty rags slapped on faces and enacted to allow those in power a way to appear to do something while deflecting blame off themselves for the fact that they are largely powerless. I guess although I think there is a time and a place for masking... the actual practice for the everyday citizen (and certainly in schools) is pointless. Am I anti-mask or pro-mask where it will ACTUALLY be done properly with benefit? (But to this point, I have politely complied with any order as required or directly requested).
And I certainly don't like to be inconvenienced, who does? Does that mean that I am completely unwilling to do so? Of course not. We have all been greatly inconvenienced in one way or another over the last year, but to what end? We should certainly have tried to quantify what costs/benefits these 'inconveniences' have had over the last year. Kids not being in school isn't an inconvenience anymore, it is something that has literally measurable harms and doesn't actually serve the greater good for disease spread. Am I anti-inconvenience or pro-inconvenience when there is demonstrable benefits which outweigh the disruption? I don't know, but there sure as hell better be a benefit to my inconvenience other than to serve others' agendas.
Nuance.
You're assuming i meant pro means all or none. I didn't. Do you really think the people I'm talking about are incapable of nuance? I think pro would most commonly mean moreso than not? Most here would consider me pro-mask based on my arguments, but I've said over and over I'm against mandates. I just spent a week in Cali and never touched a mask after deplaning. I'm obviously pro-vax but have made it clear i don't think it's necessary for all. I think the majority likely feel like us... These options can be reasonable or less reasonable based on circumstances, but we tend to lean one way or the other. It seems very few are just steadfast in their complete and total opposition to one side's views, like my buddy GP
Public health/politicians and their media amplification trying to handle this as solely black and white and unable to admit a number of the approaches were largely ineffective for the fear of looking bad, so they double down with ineffective measures.
We also need to probably get to the point where we admit that C19 will exist in perpetuity, but that is another discussion.
And so it begins again in Wake County. My business has me going to a lot of municipalities and county run buildings. Twice today I encountered mask mandates at different places. One had a sign on the door, the other did not and security had to tell me. I let them know how ridiculous it was. I want to know for what reason? It's all BS and about control. The masks do not work and people are starting to get really pissed off. They keep this up and there will be a real insurrection. Another total lockdown will not end well for the politicians.
Being an N. C. State fan builds great character!
Gotcha. I see what you were saying. You're probably right.
Masks are back in my workplace, though fortunately only outside of offices/cubes. Some thought that proof of vaccination might allow no mask wearing in the future, but no promises yet.
Sounds like a bunch of fully vaxed people are getting Covid within the last 3-4 days.
Ive gone this entire 1+ year with only knowing 10-12 people that have gotten Covid.
In the last 2 days alone I have 6 friends/family test positive... 3 different cities/households they are all vaxxed. Zero symptoms or very mild symptoms. One child.
Ive gone this entire 1+ year with only knowing 10-12 people that have gotten Covid.
In the last 2 days alone I have 6 friends/family test positive... 3 different cities/households they are all vaxxed. Zero symptoms or very mild symptoms. One child.
I don't get it....you got mad at people who don't create the rules?DrummerboyWolf said:
And so it begins again in Wake County. My business has me going to a lot of municipalities and county run buildings. Twice today I encountered mask mandates at different places. One had a sign on the door, the other did not and security had to tell me. I let them know how ridiculous it was. I want to know for what reason? It's all BS and about control. The masks do not work and people are starting to get really pissed off. They keep this up and there will be a real insurrection. Another total lockdown will not end well for the politicians.
And why did you get mad? Did it hurt your skin to put on the mask? Could you not breathe?
Sorry, I fully get not liking to wear them, and I get its debatable bout how much they help...but this whole thing about people getting mad is just silly. Of all teh issues in this country....putting a cloth mask on over your face for a period of time is the issue you feel is going to start an insurrection? Dear Lord.
DrummerboyWolf said:
And so it begins again in Wake County. My business has me going to a lot of municipalities and county run buildings. Twice today I encountered mask mandates at different places. One had a sign on the door, the other did not and security had to tell me. I let them know how ridiculous it was. I want to know for what reason? It's all BS and about control. The masks do not work and people are starting to get really pissed off. They keep this up and there will be a real insurrection. Another total lockdown will not end well for the politicians.
Biden's own advisor admitted today that masks don't work unless they are M-95.
All the masks that children will be wearing at school are 100% useless.
The only rates people should consider are deaths and hospitalizations. I got a feeling we are about to see a bunch of positives... everywhere but little to no symptoms. Hopefully the idiots in the media and the politicians dont over react and make the same stupid mistakes.
Do you mind if I ask, why did they get tested? Exposure to someone with a confirmed case so they needed to get tested even though asymptomatic?Bas2020 said:
Sounds like a bunch of fully vaxed people are getting Covid within the last 3-4 days.
Ive gone this entire 1+ year with only knowing 10-12 people that have gotten Covid.
In the last 2 days alone I have 6 friends/family test positive... 3 different cities/households they are all vaxxed. Zero symptoms or very mild symptoms. One child.
I'll take the zero to mild symptoms over the full blown crap I've seen so far this year with friends and family that have had covid. Talked to one today who said he just wants to be able to taste and smell again.
Judging by the degree of force Eurocops are willing to use on demonstrators who are violating court orders against what Americans would call First Amendment liberties, if our cops also start acting like ChiCom thugs, another total lockdown will not end well for any of us.DrummerboyWolf said:
And so it begins again in Wake County. My business has me going to a lot of municipalities and county run buildings. Twice today I encountered mask mandates at different places. One had a sign on the door, the other did not and security had to tell me. I let them know how ridiculous it was. I want to know for what reason? It's all BS and about control. The masks do not work and people are starting to get really pissed off. They keep this up and there will be a real insurrection. Another total lockdown will not end well for the politicians.
Fauci and the Chi-Coms didn't think about the specific individual ailments and ramifications. Nice people they are.RunsWithWolves26 said:
I'll take the zero to mild symptoms over the full blown crap I've seen so far this year with friends and family that have had covid. Talked to one today who said he just wants to be able to taste and smell again.
The more vaccinated people that get tested, the more more positive tests from vaccinated people will exist. That's been the realty for some time now. For me, of you are vaccinated and you test positive, but don't have any symptoms, or have symptoms that could be prescribed to any number of other things, then you don't have covid. We're still so caught up on asymptomatic spread, and in my non expert opinion, I don't think that should be the focus when it comes to vaccinated people, and I think a lot of the research posted in this thread backs that up.
I know several people hospitalized with covid currently, some severely sick including one death. Those folks weren't vaccinated, and all had multiple other health issues. Their family members that were vaccinated and exposed to them did not get sick. Testing vaccinated people and using possibly faulty information into scaring people to worry about asymptomatic vaccinated spread isn't helping the real at risk people that are driving a good portion of the current wave.
I know several people hospitalized with covid currently, some severely sick including one death. Those folks weren't vaccinated, and all had multiple other health issues. Their family members that were vaccinated and exposed to them did not get sick. Testing vaccinated people and using possibly faulty information into scaring people to worry about asymptomatic vaccinated spread isn't helping the real at risk people that are driving a good portion of the current wave.
Just a guy on the sunshine squad.
The Gatekeeper.
Homer Dumbarse.
StateFan2001 will probably respond to this because he isn't smart enough to understand how ignore works.
The Gatekeeper.
Homer Dumbarse.
StateFan2001 will probably respond to this because he isn't smart enough to understand how ignore works.
No medical provider/office should be testing asymptomatic vaccinated individuals just because they have been in contact with someone that is positive. Even CDC guidelines don't recommend testing asymptomatic vaccinated. I have no idea why it still happens unless it is all work required.wilmwolf80 said:
The more vaccinated people that get tested, the more more positive tests from vaccinated people will exist. That's been the realty for some time now. For me, of you are vaccinated and you test positive, but don't have any symptoms, or have symptoms that could be prescribed to any number of other things, then you don't have covid. We're still so caught up on asymptomatic spread, and in my non expert opinion, I don't think that should be the focus when it comes to vaccinated people, and I think a lot of the research posted in this thread backs that up.
I know several people hospitalized with covid currently, some severely sick including one death. Those folks weren't vaccinated, and all had multiple other health issues. Their family members that were vaccinated and exposed to them did not get sick. Testing vaccinated people and using possibly faulty information into scaring people to worry about asymptomatic vaccinated spread isn't helping the real at risk people that are driving a good portion of the current wave.
We have had patients specifically request it and have educated them that this is not needed - hence, the reason for the vaccines.
If you are vaccinated and have no symptoms, you do not need to be tested nor do you need to quarantine. If you have COVID-like symptoms, yes, please go get tested, but not until then.
caryking said:Watch the videos I shared on Sunday...Mormad said:caryking said:
The truth on all this is that it is all political! The political outcry's causes people to do stupid things. The vaccines were never intended, by logical vaccinologist, to be used on everyone. They were to be used only on the vulnerable!
These logical people believe you "CANNOT" vaccinate into the teeth of a pandemic! So, we should have vaccinated the vulnerable and treat the infected with proper therapeutics (heavily). The virus is going to jump and mutate to the least path of resistance. Also, this virus will "NEVER" go away!!!! Over time, it will become so,etching similar to the flu!
You all really need to start thinking differently! The group think authoritarians are loving this debate! They WIN!!!
What proper therapeutics, Cary?
I did watch them. But you created the standard that if we disagree with the vid, we must state what we disagree with, why, and have supporting data. But you're allowed to believe "proper therapeutics" make an appreciable difference because a guy you like puts them on a slide, and just say "watch the video?" That's not exactly fair, my man!
Unfortunately, the "proper therapeutics" haven't really shown to make the difference the vaccines have made. They make some difference, maybe for some, sometimes. And really not for severe disease. It's more effective to prevent severe covid than to treat it. 600k deaths suggest it's kind of difficult to manage despite the presence of "proper therapeutics." You think the critical care docs i know didn't try these things to little avail? None of them felt these things, when available, made much difference. But the vaccines arrive and the data really changed didn't it? Davie's simple slide about the effectiveness of the vaccines absolutely cuts the legs off Malone's slide simply naming "proper therapeutics" with no data to support them.
I like Malone, too, Cary. He makes some great points. But some things he says i think are debatable. It's not fact just because he says it. The NYT headlines that he claims was already predicted by himself, has already been questioned when peer reviewed. People here called BS on that headline. They're probably BOTH right. There are infected vaxxed who are symptomatic and likely infectious, and there are infected vaxxed who more often asymptomatic who are likely not overly infectious. The vax very likely greatly reduces spread among the infected by reducing viral load. The slide he claims means Pfizer is admitting the vaccine doesn't work now that they have a drug coming out does nothing of the sort. Read it yourself.
He loves harping on the potential risks of the vaccines and makes any human watching very hesitant but never mentions the rate of risks and only says we don't know. He completely avoids the risks of covid vs vaccines, and he completely avoids mentioning the side effects of his "proper therapeutics." Guess what, they have side effects too.
The vids are great, and as a physician and a conservative i wanna cheer them, but there are very debatable points. That said, thanks for posting them. I thought they were one of the more enjoyable things i have seen on this thread.
*Unless you are vaccinated, asymptomatic, AND trying to fly back into the US from a foreign country. Then your vaccine card is not sufficient! I was very happy when I saw we were at least not subject to the PCR test.PackPA2015 said:No medical provider/office should be testing asymptomatic vaccinated individuals just because they have been in contact with someone that is positive. Even CDC guidelines don't recommend testing asymptomatic vaccinated. I have no idea why it still happens unless it is all work required.wilmwolf80 said:
The more vaccinated people that get tested, the more more positive tests from vaccinated people will exist. That's been the realty for some time now. For me, of you are vaccinated and you test positive, but don't have any symptoms, or have symptoms that could be prescribed to any number of other things, then you don't have covid. We're still so caught up on asymptomatic spread, and in my non expert opinion, I don't think that should be the focus when it comes to vaccinated people, and I think a lot of the research posted in this thread backs that up.
I know several people hospitalized with covid currently, some severely sick including one death. Those folks weren't vaccinated, and all had multiple other health issues. Their family members that were vaccinated and exposed to them did not get sick. Testing vaccinated people and using possibly faulty information into scaring people to worry about asymptomatic vaccinated spread isn't helping the real at risk people that are driving a good portion of the current wave.
We have had patients specifically request it and have educated them that this is not needed - hence, the reason for the vaccines.
If you are vaccinated and have no symptoms, you do not need to be tested nor do you need to quarantine. If you have COVID-like symptoms, yes, please go get tested, but not until then.
Communist Mafioso thug Cuomo pushes private businesses to only admit and do business with vaccinated people.
This is getting very dangerous.
https://instagr.am/p/CSFXFUHhnVD
This is getting very dangerous.
https://instagr.am/p/CSFXFUHhnVD
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
Thanks for watching the videos Mormad. Like I've said, I am not a physician and don't understand this stuff. I am looking at a person that has significant credentials and find him to be thinking differently than the mainstream.Mormad said:caryking said:Watch the videos I shared on Sunday...Mormad said:caryking said:
The truth on all this is that it is all political! The political outcry's causes people to do stupid things. The vaccines were never intended, by logical vaccinologist, to be used on everyone. They were to be used only on the vulnerable!
These logical people believe you "CANNOT" vaccinate into the teeth of a pandemic! So, we should have vaccinated the vulnerable and treat the infected with proper therapeutics (heavily). The virus is going to jump and mutate to the least path of resistance. Also, this virus will "NEVER" go away!!!! Over time, it will become so,etching similar to the flu!
You all really need to start thinking differently! The group think authoritarians are loving this debate! They WIN!!!
What proper therapeutics, Cary?
I did watch them. But you created the standard that if we disagree with the vid, we must state what we disagree with, why, and have supporting data. But you're allowed to believe "proper therapeutics" make an appreciable difference because a guy you like puts them on a slide, and just say "watch the video?" That's not exactly fair, my man!
Unfortunately, the "proper therapeutics" haven't really shown to make the difference the vaccines have made. They make some difference, maybe for some, sometimes. And really not for severe disease. It's more effective to prevent severe covid than to treat it. 600k deaths suggest it's kind of difficult to manage despite the presence of "proper therapeutics." You think the critical care docs i know didn't try these things to little avail? None of them felt these things, when available, made much difference. But the vaccines arrive and the data really changed didn't it? Davie's simple slide about the effectiveness of the vaccines absolutely cuts the legs off Malone's slide simply naming "proper therapeutics" with no data to support them.
I like Malone, too, Cary. He makes some great points. But some things he says i think are debatable. It's not fact just because he says it. The NYT headlines that he claims was already predicted by himself, has already been questioned when peer reviewed. People here called BS on that headline. They're probably BOTH right. There are infected vaxxed who are symptomatic and likely infectious, and there are infected vaxxed who more often asymptomatic who are likely not overly infectious. The vax very likely greatly reduces spread among the infected by reducing viral load. The slide he claims means Pfizer is admitting the vaccine doesn't work now that they have a drug coming out does nothing of the sort. Read it yourself.
He loves harping on the potential risks of the vaccines and makes any human watching very hesitant but never mentions the rate of risks and only says we don't know. He completely avoids the risks of covid vs vaccines, and he completely avoids mentioning the side effects of his "proper therapeutics." Guess what, they have side effects too.
The vids are great, and as a physician and a conservative i wanna cheer them, but there are very debatable points. That said, thanks for posting them. I thought they were one of the more enjoyable things i have seen on this thread.
A couple of questions:
Are these vaccines truly leaky vaccines?
If so, does that mean they have a lowered effectiveness?
Phizer has said that we need a booster. Why?
Malone says it's true as the vaccines weren't designed for a long term coverage. Do you disagree?
Government is saying we don't need a booster. Why?
Something is a miss here...
I agree, Malone does harp on the risk of the data; all he appears to be asking for is the complete data. Do you disagree?
When was the last time any federal agency provided updated data on these risk? I truly don't know...
Regarding therapeutics, have we had physicians truly pushing them when people are sick? I truly don't know...
The NY Times reports that we had leaked CDC Power Point. One of the slides says that vaccinated people can spread the virus. Are you saying your peers do not believe this to be true? That being: The NY Times didn't see a leaked CDC Power Point or the CDC isn't saying that the vaccinated can spread the virus?
BTW, consider what you call a standard is someone who is trying to educate themselves. The videos a very compelling and if anybody, who's qualified, can provide alternative thinking, then please do so. At this point, I do not trust our government and believe we should have other Scientist helping. Fauci is tarnished goods in my eyes! Just an FYI, the NIH has taken down all the research grants that would lead to the Wuhon Lab, from their website... why? where is the transparency?
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
Cuomo is a horrible human being.GuerrillaPack said:
Communist Mafioso thug Cuomo pushes private businesses to only admit and do business with vaccinated people.
This is getting very dangerous.
https://instagr.am/p/CSFXFUHhnVD
On the program, Just the Truth, hosted by Jenna Ellis, she has Dr. Zev Zelenko and Dr. Johnathan Sarfati. These two doctors are debating the vaccine. They have different medical opinions and it's fascinating.
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”
Joe Biden
Philippine President says unvaccinated must stay inside their houses, and will be returned to their homes by police if they leave their home.
The video with him saying this is the second item in this post.
https://instagr.am/p/CSC4GgFp2fE
The video with him saying this is the second item in this post.
https://instagr.am/p/CSC4GgFp2fE
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
I told the people at security I knew it was not their decision. Thank you very much.Packchem91 said:I don't get it....you got mad at people who don't create the rules?DrummerboyWolf said:
And so it begins again in Wake County. My business has me going to a lot of municipalities and county run buildings. Twice today I encountered mask mandates at different places. One had a sign on the door, the other did not and security had to tell me. I let them know how ridiculous it was. I want to know for what reason? It's all BS and about control. The masks do not work and people are starting to get really pissed off. They keep this up and there will be a real insurrection. Another total lockdown will not end well for the politicians.
And why did you get mad? Did it hurt your skin to put on the mask? Could you not breathe?
Sorry, I fully get not liking to wear them, and I get its debatable bout how much they help...but this whole thing about people getting mad is just silly. Of all teh issues in this country....putting a cloth mask on over your face for a period of time is the issue you feel is going to start an insurrection? Dear Lord.
There is no reason for this Bull Crap. And yes if the idiots in charge keep pushing there will be a real insurrection. If there had been an insurrection on January 6th, then Patriots would still hold the Capitol. You want your freedoms stripped away, then keep living in the fantasyland you are in. I will not be complying.
Being an N. C. State fan builds great character!
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