According to the NYT, in Texas 39.7% have been given one dose. 30.2% fully vaccinated. In Florida, 44% one dose. 32.7% fully vaccinated

packgrad said:

---

According to the NYT, in Texas 39.7% have been given one dose. 30.2% fully vaccinated. In Florida, 44% one dose. 32.7% fully vaccinated

---

Interesting. I wonder what their estimated percentage previously infected is. Add that to their percentage vaccinated and it gives us a pretty good target? Seems too low though. Maybe the heat helps. This is a really weird acting virus.

Mormad said:

---

packgrad said:

---

According to the NYT, in Texas 39.7% have been given one dose. 30.2% fully vaccinated. In Florida, 44% one dose. 32.7% fully vaccinated

---

Interesting. I wonder what their estimated percentage previously infected is. Add that to their percentage vaccinated and it gives us a pretty good target? Seems too low though. Maybe the heat helps. This is a really weird acting virus.

---

The CDC estimated disease burden for COVID nationally is 115 million. So about 35% of the population assumed as infected.

Now about 23 million of those would be minors. So about 92 million adults.

Mormad said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

No, I am not trying to fear monger. I don't want any COVID restrictions just as you and most others on this board.

Herd immunity can be achieved through vaccination or natural infection. It is much, much safer to achieve that through vaccination regardless of age. My point with the younger generations is that although their risk of complication from COVID is significantly lower than the elderly/chronically ill, there is still risk. Vaccination has almost zero risk.

---

Do you feel the same way about the flu?

Did President Trump cure the flu or has it just "disappeared?"

How many people die annually because of the flu?

Do you agree with the left's God Fauci that we should "mask up" every flu season from now on?

Should the flu vaccine be mandatory like the left wants the Covid vaccine to be?

---

Flu and covid-19 are different animals and should be viewed differently. It was a weird year for the flu, and the reasons have been discussed here ad nauseum. I'm not sure i understand why so many are ok with turning covid into another flu. Maybe it's the best they hope for?Assuming the flu will return to pre-covid levels, and covid won't simply replace the flu, then we'll essentially from now on DOUBLE our "flu" numbers from here until the next pandemic. That's not ok with me.

There will be those who mask up during cold and flu season from now on for their own personal reasons. Whatever. You can't argue that we should be free to make adult choices that affect us at a personal level and then scoff at those who make a personal decision that isn't hurting anybody except your politicized feelings about their personal action. (And i don't "you" personally) More power to them. Doesn't affect me, though i guess in some way i may feel it reduces the chance I'll catch some unwanted bug from them.

I don't think vaccines should be mandatory at a national level. At a corporate level or University level or whatever? I'm ok with that.

---

Interesting point, Mormad.

Just curious, where do you hope we get in terms of transmission/hospitalizations/deaths for COVID and what level do you think is attainable?

Mormad said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

No, I am not trying to fear monger. I don't want any COVID restrictions just as you and most others on this board.

Herd immunity can be achieved through vaccination or natural infection. It is much, much safer to achieve that through vaccination regardless of age. My point with the younger generations is that although their risk of complication from COVID is significantly lower than the elderly/chronically ill, there is still risk. Vaccination has almost zero risk.

---

Do you feel the same way about the flu?

Did President Trump cure the flu or has it just "disappeared?"

How many people die annually because of the flu?

Do you agree with the left's God Fauci that we should "mask up" every flu season from now on?

Should the flu vaccine be mandatory like the left wants the Covid vaccine to be?

---

Flu and covid-19 are different animals and should be viewed differently. It was a weird year for the flu, and the reasons have been discussed here ad nauseum. I'm not sure i understand why so many are ok with turning covid into another flu. Maybe it's the best they hope for?Assuming the flu will return to pre-covid levels, and covid won't simply replace the flu, then we'll essentially from now on DOUBLE our "flu" numbers from here until the next pandemic. That's not ok with me.

There will be those who mask up during cold and flu season from now on for their own personal reasons. Whatever. You can't argue that we should be free to make adult choices that affect us at a personal level and then scoff at those who make a personal decision that isn't hurting anybody except your politicized feelings about their personal action. (And i don't "you" personally) More power to them. Doesn't affect me, though i guess in some way i may feel it reduces the chance I'll catch some unwanted bug from them.

I don't think vaccines should be mandatory at a national level. At a corporate level or University level or whatever? I'm ok with that.

---

(Beyond this year) Do we treat any other endemic coronaviruses like the flu? Future COVID will likely just be another endemic coronavirus. Why would we ever have double flu numbers (assuming COVID is the doubling factor)?

I would think COVID fades into the background (mostly, if we let it), like all the other endemic viruses. Unless it is vaccine/prior infection resistant, in which case, in likely continues to suppress the flu and become a dominant seasonal virus (which I doubt).

Mormad said:

---

ncsualum05 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Since Texas opened 100% 2 months ago (tomorrow)

* Covid hospitalizations are the lowest in almost 11 months

* 5 consecutive days with fewer than 2,000 Covid cases

* Covid positivity rate below 5% for 6 straight days for the 1st time in forever

* fatalities down more than 2/3

— Greg Abbott (@GregAbbott_TX) May 9, 2021

---

How much more do people need to see? We have so much data now from states. We see who has locked down harder, masks more, and stays restricted. We see who's wide ass open and that even includes major sporting events now. I mean it's pretty obvious it's not making things worse at this point.

My in laws drive me up the walls. And my wife is with them. Still want to mask up and still believe there's risk. Saying we're getting there but we just gotta keep going. What BS... and no I don't say this to them I respect them and I make some counter points. But it's BS... we're not getting there... WE'RE THERE.

1. Texas and Florida. Most populated states in the US outside of Cali. Look at their policies versus Cali or NY. Who's better? If you don't know the obvious answer than you're lying or you're a complete idiot.

2. Who can get vaccinated? Anyone 16 and over. It's easy peasy. Hey some people don't buy this vaccine and don't want it. Fine! But if you have been vaccinated... act like it! You're vaccinated! Be confident! Why are people that are vaccinated walking around like they could still die or give a serious dose to someone else? And if you' have an immune system that you're worried about and you don't feel safe then why the hell aren't you vaccinated? If you don't feel safe and you don't get the shots than by all means don't go places and wear your mask all the time. It's your choice.

3. Everything should be a choice b/c everything IS a choice right now. The pandemic is OVER. This is now an endemic virus that will live with us for the rest of the time the world is around. It will never infect 0 people and it will never kill 0 people ever again. Fear not and live confidently. I promise you there will be more pandemics to come along with wars, domestic shootings, car accidents, recession (incoming in my opinion), hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc.

---

I actually agree with so much of this sentiment. I also believe we should be confident! But not to the point of defiance or temerity. Well reasoned, logical, thoughtful confidence.

---

What do you mean by defiance? I think my entire post is logical and thought based.

packgrad said:

---

Mormad said:

---

packgrad said:

---

According to the NYT, in Texas 39.7% have been given one dose. 30.2% fully vaccinated. In Florida, 44% one dose. 32.7% fully vaccinated

---

Interesting. I wonder what their estimated percentage previously infected is. Add that to their percentage vaccinated and it gives us a pretty good target? Seems too low though. Maybe the heat helps. This is a really weird acting virus.

---

In July NC researchers estimated 7 times as many had the virus as tested positive. 980,000 positive cases on the scoreboard now. 50% of the population has been vaccinated. Even if you guess that 2 times as many had the virus as tested positive, we're beyond the data driven threshold set forth by the governor. Of course maybe he has the caveat of vaccinated, not has antibodies.

---

Yes, the NCDHHS wants two-thirds of adults vaccinated with at least 1 dose before ending the mask mandate. Social distancing/crowd limits mandates stop on June 1st. I personally think mask mandates will end in NC before we get to the 2/3s mark, just because I am not sure that we get there and I think cases/hospitalizations/deaths will continue to improve to a tolerable level as we increase the vaccination rate, but I could very well be wrong on that.

As far as natural infection vs. vaccinations, we do know from real-world studies that vaccinations protect against the variants significantly better than natural infection, which is another reason for the big push for the COVID vaccine vs. natural immunity.

PackPA2015 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Mormad said:

---

packgrad said:

---

According to the NYT, in Texas 39.7% have been given one dose. 30.2% fully vaccinated. In Florida, 44% one dose. 32.7% fully vaccinated

---

Interesting. I wonder what their estimated percentage previously infected is. Add that to their percentage vaccinated and it gives us a pretty good target? Seems too low though. Maybe the heat helps. This is a really weird acting virus.

---

In July NC researchers estimated 7 times as many had the virus as tested positive. 980,000 positive cases on the scoreboard now. 50% of the population has been vaccinated. Even if you guess that 2 times as many had the virus as tested positive, we're beyond the data driven threshold set forth by the governor. Of course maybe he has the caveat of vaccinated, not has antibodies.

---

Yes, the NCDHHS wants two-thirds of adults vaccinated with at least 1 dose before ending the mask mandate. Social distancing/crowd limits mandates stop on June 1st. I personally think mask mandates will end in NC before we get to the 2/3s mark, just because I am not sure that we get there and I think cases/hospitalizations/deaths will continue to improve to a tolerable level as we increase the vaccination rate, but I could very well be wrong on that.

As far as natural infection vs. vaccinations, we do know from real-world studies that vaccinations protect against the variants significantly better than natural infection, which is another reason for the big push for the COVID vaccine vs. natural immunity.

---

We also know from real world studies that natural immunity protects against recurrence of the virus and also helps achieve the goal of herd immunity. It appears herd immunity is not the goal though. It's vaccinated.

Yet again the moving of the goalposts by the overlords.

packgrad said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Mormad said:

---

packgrad said:

---

According to the NYT, in Texas 39.7% have been given one dose. 30.2% fully vaccinated. In Florida, 44% one dose. 32.7% fully vaccinated

---

Interesting. I wonder what their estimated percentage previously infected is. Add that to their percentage vaccinated and it gives us a pretty good target? Seems too low though. Maybe the heat helps. This is a really weird acting virus.

---

In July NC researchers estimated 7 times as many had the virus as tested positive. 980,000 positive cases on the scoreboard now. 50% of the population has been vaccinated. Even if you guess that 2 times as many had the virus as tested positive, we're beyond the data driven threshold set forth by the governor. Of course maybe he has the caveat of vaccinated, not has antibodies.

---

Yes, the NCDHHS wants two-thirds of adults vaccinated with at least 1 dose before ending the mask mandate. Social distancing/crowd limits mandates stop on June 1st. I personally think mask mandates will end in NC before we get to the 2/3s mark, just because I am not sure that we get there and I think cases/hospitalizations/deaths will continue to improve to a tolerable level as we increase the vaccination rate, but I could very well be wrong on that.

As far as natural infection vs. vaccinations, we do know from real-world studies that vaccinations protect against the variants significantly better than natural infection, which is another reason for the big push for the COVID vaccine vs. natural immunity.

---

We also know from real world studies that natural immunity protects against recurrence of the virus and also helps achieve the goal of herd immunity. It appears herd immunity is not the goal though. It's vaccinated.

Yet again the moving of the goalposts by the overlords.

---

It is the goal as Davie points out above. Herd immunity takes place in COVID's case as vaccination rates around 50% with natural immunity as well. If we can truly get vaccination rates to two-thirds of the adult population, this is a bonus as it protects better against variants and protects our kids without having to have them vaccinated. You could argue that Cooper could lower the number of vaccination rate requirement, but he's not moving the goal posts in this case. As we get more and more data, the benefits of the vaccine greatly, greatly outweigh the risks of natural infection regardless of age.

He gave a clear cut point, which we all wanted, based on current data, to remove restrictions.

ncsualum05 said:

---

Mormad said:

---

ncsualum05 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Since Texas opened 100% 2 months ago (tomorrow)

* Covid hospitalizations are the lowest in almost 11 months

* 5 consecutive days with fewer than 2,000 Covid cases

* Covid positivity rate below 5% for 6 straight days for the 1st time in forever

* fatalities down more than 2/3

— Greg Abbott (@GregAbbott_TX) May 9, 2021

---

How much more do people need to see? We have so much data now from states. We see who has locked down harder, masks more, and stays restricted. We see who's wide ass open and that even includes major sporting events now. I mean it's pretty obvious it's not making things worse at this point.

My in laws drive me up the walls. And my wife is with them. Still want to mask up and still believe there's risk. Saying we're getting there but we just gotta keep going. What BS... and no I don't say this to them I respect them and I make some counter points. But it's BS... we're not getting there... WE'RE THERE.

1. Texas and Florida. Most populated states in the US outside of Cali. Look at their policies versus Cali or NY. Who's better? If you don't know the obvious answer than you're lying or you're a complete idiot.

2. Who can get vaccinated? Anyone 16 and over. It's easy peasy. Hey some people don't buy this vaccine and don't want it. Fine! But if you have been vaccinated... act like it! You're vaccinated! Be confident! Why are people that are vaccinated walking around like they could still die or give a serious dose to someone else? And if you' have an immune system that you're worried about and you don't feel safe then why the hell aren't you vaccinated? If you don't feel safe and you don't get the shots than by all means don't go places and wear your mask all the time. It's your choice.

3. Everything should be a choice b/c everything IS a choice right now. The pandemic is OVER. This is now an endemic virus that will live with us for the rest of the time the world is around. It will never infect 0 people and it will never kill 0 people ever again. Fear not and live confidently. I promise you there will be more pandemics to come along with wars, domestic shootings, car accidents, recession (incoming in my opinion), hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc.

---

I actually agree with so much of this sentiment. I also believe we should be confident! But not to the point of defiance or temerity. Well reasoned, logical, thoughtful confidence.

---

What do you mean by defiance? I think my entire post is logical and thought based.

---

Yessir! Your post certainly was, my friend. Was not pointing at you, just adding a general point to what you said, buddy.

Wayland said:

---

Mormad said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

No, I am not trying to fear monger. I don't want any COVID restrictions just as you and most others on this board.

Herd immunity can be achieved through vaccination or natural infection. It is much, much safer to achieve that through vaccination regardless of age. My point with the younger generations is that although their risk of complication from COVID is significantly lower than the elderly/chronically ill, there is still risk. Vaccination has almost zero risk.

---

Do you feel the same way about the flu?

Did President Trump cure the flu or has it just "disappeared?"

How many people die annually because of the flu?

Do you agree with the left's God Fauci that we should "mask up" every flu season from now on?

Should the flu vaccine be mandatory like the left wants the Covid vaccine to be?

---

Flu and covid-19 are different animals and should be viewed differently. It was a weird year for the flu, and the reasons have been discussed here ad nauseum. I'm not sure i understand why so many are ok with turning covid into another flu. Maybe it's the best they hope for?Assuming the flu will return to pre-covid levels, and covid won't simply replace the flu, then we'll essentially from now on DOUBLE our "flu" numbers from here until the next pandemic. That's not ok with me.

There will be those who mask up during cold and flu season from now on for their own personal reasons. Whatever. You can't argue that we should be free to make adult choices that affect us at a personal level and then scoff at those who make a personal decision that isn't hurting anybody except your politicized feelings about their personal action. (And i don't "you" personally) More power to them. Doesn't affect me, though i guess in some way i may feel it reduces the chance I'll catch some unwanted bug from them.

I don't think vaccines should be mandatory at a national level. At a corporate level or University level or whatever? I'm ok with that.

---

(Beyond this year) Do we treat any other endemic coronaviruses like the flu? Future COVID will likely just be another endemic coronavirus. Why would we ever have double flu numbers (assuming COVID is the doubling factor)?

I would think COVID fades into the background (mostly, if we let it), like all the other endemic viruses. Unless it is vaccine/prior infection resistant, in which case, in likely continues to suppress the flu and become a dominant seasonal virus (which I doubt).

---

This, for the most part, is exactly how i feel. I think we can, and will, do much better than turning this coronavirus into another flu (assuming it continues to behave as it has thus far). I think flu suppression was only part of the story, but i don't see sars-cov-2 becoming the dominant virus even when social distancing and masking becomes a thing of the past. My guess is that this pandemic and the complete hysterical politics surrounding it in the information age has changed things forever for many people. The combination of fear, caution, situational masking, some element of self isolation, vaccines, and zoom meetings will, moving forward, reduce the numbers for both and we won't have 2 "flus" at pre-covid flu numbers.

Wayland said:

---

Mormad said:

---

packgrad said:

---

According to the NYT, in Texas 39.7% have been given one dose. 30.2% fully vaccinated. In Florida, 44% one dose. 32.7% fully vaccinated

---

Interesting. I wonder what their estimated percentage previously infected is. Add that to their percentage vaccinated and it gives us a pretty good target? Seems too low though. Maybe the heat helps. This is a really weird acting virus.

---

The CDC estimated disease burden for COVID nationally is 115 million. So about 35% of the population assumed as infected.

Now about 23 million of those would be minors. So about 92 million adults.

---

28% of adults with natural immunity. That puts you a lot closer to herd immunity.

packgrad said:

---

Wayland said:

---

Mormad said:

---

packgrad said:

---

According to the NYT, in Texas 39.7% have been given one dose. 30.2% fully vaccinated. In Florida, 44% one dose. 32.7% fully vaccinated

---

Interesting. I wonder what their estimated percentage previously infected is. Add that to their percentage vaccinated and it gives us a pretty good target? Seems too low though. Maybe the heat helps. This is a really weird acting virus.

---

The CDC estimated disease burden for COVID nationally is 115 million. So about 35% of the population assumed as infected.

Now about 23 million of those would be minors. So about 92 million adults.

---

28% of adults with natural immunity. That puts you a lot closer to herd immunity.

---

Right, that number is lurking in the background as vaccinations are going on, and will have a real impact.

As far as NC goes, we are now at the lowest post peak case reporting rate, and if cases were to decline at this rate for one more week, we would be at the lowest cases in over a year... with a lot more testing than was going on than a year ago.



Deaths are already well below where they were a year ago.

EDIT: Deaths side note. Last week had the lowest number of reported Congregate deaths since NC DHHS started reporting the metric on April 25, 2020. This includes any backlog reporting (since it is not Date Of Death but Reported Deaths)



I still think a full audit needs to be done on the hospital reporting and COVID census. Some of those numbers are too sticky. Either that, or we need a better breakdown and insight into the data than just topline numbers.

Everpack said:

---

Anecdotal story on natural immunity. My BIL tested positive for COVID19 back in early August 2020 with pretty mild symptoms. He is 37 and in pretty good health. He has always given blood religiously and now they automatically test you for COVID19 antibodies. He gave blood on Saturday and he still tested positive for antibodies. That's nine months post mild infection and still showing immunity.

---

Consistent with this study.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

Mormad said:

---

ncsualum05 said:

---

Mormad said:

---

ncsualum05 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Since Texas opened 100% 2 months ago (tomorrow)

* Covid hospitalizations are the lowest in almost 11 months

* 5 consecutive days with fewer than 2,000 Covid cases

* Covid positivity rate below 5% for 6 straight days for the 1st time in forever

* fatalities down more than 2/3

— Greg Abbott (@GregAbbott_TX) May 9, 2021

---

How much more do people need to see? We have so much data now from states. We see who has locked down harder, masks more, and stays restricted. We see who's wide ass open and that even includes major sporting events now. I mean it's pretty obvious it's not making things worse at this point.

My in laws drive me up the walls. And my wife is with them. Still want to mask up and still believe there's risk. Saying we're getting there but we just gotta keep going. What BS... and no I don't say this to them I respect them and I make some counter points. But it's BS... we're not getting there... WE'RE THERE.

1. Texas and Florida. Most populated states in the US outside of Cali. Look at their policies versus Cali or NY. Who's better? If you don't know the obvious answer than you're lying or you're a complete idiot.

2. Who can get vaccinated? Anyone 16 and over. It's easy peasy. Hey some people don't buy this vaccine and don't want it. Fine! But if you have been vaccinated... act like it! You're vaccinated! Be confident! Why are people that are vaccinated walking around like they could still die or give a serious dose to someone else? And if you' have an immune system that you're worried about and you don't feel safe then why the hell aren't you vaccinated? If you don't feel safe and you don't get the shots than by all means don't go places and wear your mask all the time. It's your choice.

3. Everything should be a choice b/c everything IS a choice right now. The pandemic is OVER. This is now an endemic virus that will live with us for the rest of the time the world is around. It will never infect 0 people and it will never kill 0 people ever again. Fear not and live confidently. I promise you there will be more pandemics to come along with wars, domestic shootings, car accidents, recession (incoming in my opinion), hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc.

---

I actually agree with so much of this sentiment. I also believe we should be confident! But not to the point of defiance or temerity. Well reasoned, logical, thoughtful confidence.

---

What do you mean by defiance? I think my entire post is logical and thought based.

---

Yessir! Your post certainly was, my friend. Was not pointing at you, just adding a general point to what you said, buddy.

---

No worries. I got you.

NEW: FDA authorizes Pfizer vaccine for 12 to 15 year olds.

— Andy Slavitt (@aslavitt46) May 10, 2021

statefan91 said:

---

NEW: FDA authorizes Pfizer vaccine for 12 to 15 year olds.

— Andy Slavitt (@aslavitt46) May 10, 2021

---

That will be the next angle Democrats and teachers unions use to keep things shut down. The children need to be vaccinated. Science!

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

NEW: FDA authorizes Pfizer vaccine for 12 to 15 year olds.

— Andy Slavitt (@aslavitt46) May 10, 2021

---

That will be the next angle Democrats and teachers unions use to keep things shut down. The children need to be vaccinated. Science!

---

Schools in Wake County are back open and have been

Vaccinate the kids the way they did for polio.

Line up each school room, and pop everyone.

Glasswolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

NEW: FDA authorizes Pfizer vaccine for 12 to 15 year olds.

— Andy Slavitt (@aslavitt46) May 10, 2021

---

That will be the next angle Democrats and teachers unions use to keep things shut down. The children need to be vaccinated. Science!

---

Schools in Wake County are back open and have been

---

My wife is a teacher. I'm aware.

BREAKING: Pfizer and BioNTech's Covid-19 vaccine was cleared for use in children age 12 to 15 in the U.S., paving the way for the mass vaccination of middle- and high-school students before the next school year https://t.co/w9x74Gdcoh pic.twitter.com/aiO8uWJziE

— Bloomberg (@business) May 10, 2021

bigeric said:

---

Vaccinate the kids the way they did for polio.

Line up each school room, and pop everyone.

---

I think when they got us (somewhere between 1969-1971) it was german measles... and the infamous "arm gun" shot...

BTW... had to go to Lowe's twice yesterday... didn't wear a mask either time (carried one in my pocket the first time, the second time didn't even bother)... nobody (store workers or other customers) even blinked at me... even had a store employee help me with something.

The mask mandate is essentially over down here on the coast... we have out-of-staters already coming in renting not wearing masks either (and you know what group of states most of them come from).

Been seeing more and more not wearing them in grocery stores as well... that's next on my list.

packgrad said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

NEW: FDA authorizes Pfizer vaccine for 12 to 15 year olds.

— Andy Slavitt (@aslavitt46) May 10, 2021

---

That will be the next angle Democrats and teachers unions use to keep things shut down. The children need to be vaccinated. Science!

---

Speaking as a scientist and with apologies to Jerry Lee Lewis, there's a whole lotta scientism goin on.

New England Journal of Medicine article on increasing access to the COVID vaccine. It makes a good point in which folks who are willing to get the vaccine, but not willing to travel or set up appointments are labeled as "vaccine hesitant", but they are not truly hesitant to receive it.

I've suggested this previously, but getting the vaccine out to PCP offices could really benefit these individuals.


Perspective Article on Increasing Access to the COVID Vaccine

PortCityPackFan said:

---

Civilized said:

---

PortCityPackFan said:

---

Well my 2-3 weeks for the first shot assumes that demand is not outpacing availability, which appears to be the case here in NC. Certainly if interest was so high that there was a wait list for the first shot, then I'd adjust those timeframes. I just don't think that's the case here.

---

We shouldn't tie to demand or interest, because demand or interest may be low for specious reasons.

Just tie to % vaccinated based on best available science regarding herd immunity.

---

I really don't care if demand is low. If someone has the opportunity to get the vaccine, and chooses not to, that's on them. Once it is readily available, life should return to normal.

---

That's rational, but it's also advocating for public health policy using personal risk analysis. Public health policy-makers don't have that luxury. I'm sure they wish they did; it's a much simpler analysis.

We can bang on politicians, the CDC, Fauci, whoever we want but the reality is that decision-makers in public health have a much harder decision to make than simply relying on personal risk assessments.

"Kids are at extremely little personal risk for bad outcomes from the virus, so they don't need to be vaccinated" is another example of this line of thinking.

The analysis is much more complicated than the personal risk to those that get vaccinated, or don't.

Herd immunity, level of community transmission, the economic cost of anticipated infections that will continue to occur until we reach herd immunity, and many other considerations enter into these public health decisions. Unfortunately politics do too but that doesn't make these other myriad considerations invalid.

Is 'normal' for you full open, with no masking?

Essentially everyone over 16 has, or in the next month will have, the opportunity to get the vaccine.

12-15 year olds are now approved for Pfizer and I'm sure Moderna is close behind.

Are you saying open up fully in a month with no masking?

packgrad said:

---

Herd immunity is achieved by allowing those who have closer to zero risk of bad outcomes from the virus than they do 1/10 of 1 percent chance of a bad outcome to have natural immunity, and vaccinating those at risk. Herd immunity is not achieved through vaccination. The virus cult people unfortunately only believe government provides herd immunity through a vaccine.

Is "normal" for anyone not full open with no masking?

---

How are you formulating this natural immunity > vaccination equation you have laid out? They don't have determination on how long immunity lasts in either, but it's better to get everyone vaccinated than to hope for a mild infection in order to gain natural immunity. Herd immunity can absolutely be achieved through vaccination...that's sort of the point.

I literally don't know a single person who thinks we only reach herd immunity by vaccination only. Do those people truly exist? Herd immunity has been discussed well before these particular vaccines existed. That type of unilateral thinking drives me nuts (if you're correct and those people truly believe such nonsense).

I say, given the choice, I'd much rather my own children become immune through vaccination than through natural infection, no matter how low the perceived risk. But that's just me based on my own biases, knowledge, experiences.

statefan91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Herd immunity is achieved by allowing those who have closer to zero risk of bad outcomes from the virus than they do 1/10 of 1 percent chance of a bad outcome to have natural immunity, and vaccinating those at risk. Herd immunity is not achieved through vaccination. The virus cult people unfortunately only believe government provides herd immunity through a vaccine.

Is "normal" for anyone not full open with no masking?

---

How are you formulating this natural immunity > vaccination equation you have laid out? They don't have determination on how long immunity lasts in either, but it's better to get everyone vaccinated than to hope for a mild infection in order to gain natural immunity. Herd immunity can absolutely be achieved through vaccination...that's sort of the point.

---

.

Herd immunity would never be achieved through vaccination. That's sort of the point. But please, inject your children with a vaccine for a virus that essentially poses zero risk to them.