ncsualum05 said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

ncsualum05 said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

I know someone was asking about travel to Europe this summer. European Union announced that they will allow tourists whom are vaccinated to travel to those areas. These vaccines are working and they are working very, very well.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/european-union-will-let-vaccinated-americans-visit-this-summer-official-2021-04-25/

---

Don't tell Fauci, Biden, CDC or rest of the democrat party that. Fauci just now admitted it's ok to be outdoors. The amount of mental disorders that he has caused in people is immeasurable and would take years to even get an idea.

---

Yep, we messed that up royally. Should have been pushing people outdoors for as many things as possible from the beginning.

Just remember through all of this (this is for everyone, not just you), but hindsight is always 20/20. Now, were the medical entities too slow in changing guidelines, etc.? Yes, of course, but some things we just did not know initially and are now catching up with these changes. This one, we were really, really slow with and were wrong about.

---

BS. It was way worse than just slow messaging. It was manipulation and control. Doctors last spring/ summer were coming out with logical messaging based on study of this virus as well as viruses throughout history. They were silenced or censored. People were getting harassed for being on a beach by themselves or in a park. Me... a joe blow who has no medical training understood last summer that outdoors in the fresh air coronavirus particles could not easily spread. It was close contact indoors where most spread took place.

It was ironic because while politicians were hammering people for attempting to open a business or do activities because it wasn't safe to go outside or leave your home at the same time they justified thousands taking to the streets screaming and spitting in people's faces and setting buildings on fire. During all those summer riots we should've had millions of cases pop up everywhere in those cities and yet we did not. But the messaging never changed... only rioting was allowed while 4th of July events were cancelled. We also knew schools could open safely with measures and yet we refused to follow that. Gyms and restaurants went broke while studies showed they couldn't trace that many cases back to a gym or a restaurant.

Data and science stopped being followed by most of our leaders about 1 month into shutdown last year and it never got better. People's trust in government and media is at an all time low and they earned it. If you want to complain about people not getting their vaccine now than you need to blame power hungry bureaucrats like Fauci and corrupt politicians like some of these governors and Biden.

---

Everpack said:

---

They closed national parks and gates on national forest land. That wasn't being slow to change the message, that was being intentionally restrictive to try to prove a point in the face of decades of virus transmission research and data.

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

ncsualum05 said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

ncsualum05 said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

I know someone was asking about travel to Europe this summer. European Union announced that they will allow tourists whom are vaccinated to travel to those areas. These vaccines are working and they are working very, very well.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/european-union-will-let-vaccinated-americans-visit-this-summer-official-2021-04-25/

---

Don't tell Fauci, Biden, CDC or rest of the democrat party that. Fauci just now admitted it's ok to be outdoors. The amount of mental disorders that he has caused in people is immeasurable and would take years to even get an idea.

---

Yep, we messed that up royally. Should have been pushing people outdoors for as many things as possible from the beginning.

Just remember through all of this (this is for everyone, not just you), but hindsight is always 20/20. Now, were the medical entities too slow in changing guidelines, etc.? Yes, of course, but some things we just did not know initially and are now catching up with these changes. This one, we were really, really slow with and were wrong about.

---

BS. It was way worse than just slow messaging. It was manipulation and control. Doctors last spring/ summer were coming out with logical messaging based on study of this virus as well as viruses throughout history. They were silenced or censored. People were getting harassed for being on a beach by themselves or in a park. Me... a joe blow who has no medical training understood last summer that outdoors in the fresh air coronavirus particles could not easily spread. It was close contact indoors where most spread took place.

It was ironic because while politicians were hammering people for attempting to open a business or do activities because it wasn't safe to go outside or leave your home at the same time they justified thousands taking to the streets screaming and spitting in people's faces and setting buildings on fire. During all those summer riots we should've had millions of cases pop up everywhere in those cities and yet we did not. But the messaging never changed... only rioting was allowed while 4th of July events were cancelled. We also knew schools could open safely with measures and yet we refused to follow that. Gyms and restaurants went broke while studies showed they couldn't trace that many cases back to a gym or a restaurant.

Data and science stopped being followed by most of our leaders about 1 month into shutdown last year and it never got better. People's trust in government and media is at an all time low and they earned it. If you want to complain about people not getting their vaccine now than you need to blame power hungry bureaucrats like Fauci and corrupt politicians like some of these governors and Biden.

---

Slow down, brother. I tried to convey that I was not trying to call you out with my post. I apologize if that's what it came across as. I am not saying at all that I agree with Fauci, et al. about how things were handled. The medical community, including myself, got things wrong, because we just didn't know about some aspects of the virus or we treated it like SARS I or got bad information from the top down.

I am totally agreeing with you on the outdoors message. We, and I am including myself as part of the medical community, screwed that up completely. We told people to play it safe and just stay home. We thought it would be okay to go outdoors with natural ventilation, but the messaging as you alluded to did not reference that. I did not agree with the message that protests and riots were okay while playing on a playground was not. I did not think we should have shut down national parks, etc. because of COVID. I am not at all saying that was the right thing to do.

I just don't always agree with blaming "the opposite party", and this goes for both sides, when we didn't know what the answer was until later on in the process. I am not saying that the outdoors message or mask mandate was a part of that. I totally admit that there was fault there. Again, apologies if I did not make my point very well. Hope this makes more sense.

---

This seems like it would be a bigger deal if it were... oh, nevermind. https://t.co/aCrDH6bLPM

— OutKick (@Outkick) April 26, 2021

PackPA2015 said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

These experimental vaccines are safe and effec...

---

That is 1 case out of how many people that we have vaccinated now with the Pfizer vaccine? If this was happening in a significant portion of the population, then yes, we would be concerned. It's not.

This is why we study these vaccines in thousands of people with all different backgrounds, ethnicities, and health issues. They have proven very safe and extremely effective.

---

Daviewolf83 said:

---

As of 4/20, the CDC reports the following:

# people fully vaccinated = 87M
# people infected after full vaccination = 7,157
# people hospitalized after full vaccination = 498
# people who died after full vaccination = 88

Here are the percentages for people becoming infected, hospitalized, or dying after full vaccination:

Percent infected = 0.008%
Percent hospitalization = 0.0006%
Percentage that died = 0.0001%

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

Alright, now we are up to two cases out of the millions vaccinated. This is still less than the incidence of Guillain-Barre in the general population. Where have you seen it described as "widespread"?

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

Alright, now we are up to two cases out of the millions vaccinated. This is still less than the incidence of Guillain-Barre in the general population. Where have you seen it described as "widespread"?

---

It's more than two cases of paralysis. I've just shown two examples. And I didn't say/mean that cases of paralysis were widespread. What I'm saying is that negative side effects of all kinds are widespread.

---

packgrad said:

---

I though the mortality rate was 1.8% and considered to be much lower since so many people probably had it and never knew.

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

There have been 32 million COVID cases in the US and 576,000 deaths in people who were not vaccinated. Now compare those numbers to post-vaccination numbers and you see how well these vaccines work.

---

Civilized said:

---

Daviewolf83 said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

johntom said:

---

Daviewolf83 said:

---

As of 4/20, the CDC reports the following:

# people fully vaccinated = 87M
# people infected after full vaccination = 7,157
# people hospitalized after full vaccination = 498
# people who died after full vaccination = 88

Here are the percentages for people becoming infected, hospitalized, or dying after full vaccination:

Percent infected = 0.008%
Percent hospitalization = 0.0006%
Percentage that died = 0.0001%

---

I think this is great news as far as containing the virus but honestly doesn't make me feel great about limiting serious infections. A 1% death rate for those actually contracting the virus after vaccination is about what it is for people without the vaccine. I imagine there's some other factors involved with why people were infected after vaccination or potentially the actual cause of death not being directly related to COVID, but this is somewhat discouraging IMO.

Having said that I'm still 100% pro vaccine. Israel has showed that vaccinations work in controlling the spread of the virus. If we can continue getting these numbers up we should see a somewhat normal summer and beyond.

---

That is not a 1% death rate for post-vaccination. That is 0.0001% which is much, much lower than the 2-3% mortality rate for COVID in the U.S.

---

Additionally, we know from cases in NC that people who become infected with Covid-19 and are not vaccinated, approximately 4% will be hospitalized. This is compared to 0.0006% for people who are fully vaccinated that become hospitalized.

I am not sure how anyone could confuse 0.0001% with 1%. They are different in in magnitude by a factor 10,000.

---

I think johntom's just looking at 88 as a proportion of 7,157 infected post-vaccination and comparing that to the 2% mortality rate of infections currently pre-vaccinations.

What's lost in that analysis is that vaccines protect from death by proxy. They dramatically lower all infections in vaccinated individuals, so infections that become serious and result in death are also dramatically lowered.

Basically in a sample of 87MM unvaccinated Americans you'd expect orders of magnitude more deaths due to COVID than the 88 that actually did die. That's the comparison to make.

---