metcalfmafia said:

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Sorry, but IMO nursing homes and like facilities should not be used in how we should game plan for the general population.

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I agree, and the fact that some of these nursing homes weren't already following the directions of the governor's executive order is appalling.

He'll, we are on our 4th week with the kids home from school and they are a barely affected population.

Thoughts on this? I've seen a few people of late echoing similar

https://www.thecollegefix.com/epidemiologist-coronavirus-could-be-exterminated-if-lockdowns-were-lifted/?fbclid=IwAR02qBPVHAWfLXKFPO9d8B4H04gM5FYuSqnJbePPrH8W8QL3uMRfF6IaZh4

jkpackfan said:

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Thoughts on this? I've seen a few people of late echoing similar

https://www.thecollegefix.com/epidemiologist-coronavirus-could-be-exterminated-if-lockdowns-were-lifted/?fbclid=IwAR02qBPVHAWfLXKFPO9d8B4H04gM5FYuSqnJbePPrH8W8QL3uMRfF6IaZh4

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He doesn't understand why we would want to flatten the curve?

I don't disagree with the thought. Without a vaccine or as yet sure fire treatment, herd immunity is the best chance to be done with the virus quickly. That's also the messier, less humane way of handling it, and I understand why leaders don't want to do it. With the, likely flawed, initial projections being so high, I don't fault what we've done. It's much like dealing with a wildfire. The laws of nature dictate that it is best to let it burn itself out. But the laws of humanity say that we should put it out when it threatens society. We aren't wrong, our human compassion is what makes us what we are, but if you look at it devoid of emotion, it's easy to come to the conclusion that he is posing.

Mormad said:

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The EPO idea might have some merit. It takes about 5 days to start working I think. Would be an interesting study.

Probably best to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. But to be unprepared or naive can have dire consequences.

I was reading a docs' forum today, and just like here, opinions are all over the place.

Anybody surprised that predictions change every day and/ or that previous predictions haven't held true with this pandemic is cray. Lots moving parts with varying degrees of population density, demographics, age/health, quality and quantity of care, breadth of care, compliance with recommendations, etc and a virus that is poorly understood. Predicting viral behavior is a tricky business.

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Mormad - Thank for taking the time to respond. I saw a doctor from Johns Hopkins on television earlier this evening talking about the focus doctors and scientist have on finding effective cures and treatments for the Coronavirus. This does not surprise me. I am certain doctors and scientist are leaving not stone unturned to find a solution to this virus and I appreciate everything everyone in the medical community are doing to deal with this pandemic.

Daviewolf83 said:

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Here are a few points I have been thinking about tonight:

1. Nursing home patients and employees and workers in hospitals should be tested regularly. If any of these people are found to test positive, they should be isolated and anyone they are coming in contact with should also be isolated and assumed to be positive for the virus. The State of NC is actually experiencing a low number of cases and deaths when compared with other states and you could argue the state is not in crisis. As a result, NC has the perfect opportunity to now to put in place a policy of testing the most vulnerable populations in the state. I believe the government of NC needs to be working on and instituting these plans now.

2. Dr. Brix just said there are 18,000 of the Abbott Labs testing device spread throughout the country and they have millions of test kits ready to go. She said to date, a very small number of tests have been run through these machines and this is a problem. She said the machines and test kits currently deployed have the capacity to test every healthcare worker and do it with very fast results. She mentioned having a call tonight at 8pm with the heads of all the labs and it sounds like she is going to be pressing them hard on getting these tests going.

3. The media needs to be asking the governor and his staff if they know where these Abbott Labs machines are deployed in NC and if not, what are the doing to find them? If they do know where they are, the next question is do they have plans to use them to test people who treat and interface with the most vulnerable people in NC. They could and should be regularly testing healthcare workers (this has a two-fold benefit) and they should be testing all the staff in nursing homes and the nursing home population. People who have not been tested and cleared, should have zero access to a nursing home.

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That is to much to ask of Governor I Hate Farmers Cooper but hopefully someone in that government has the brains to do it.

RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Daviewolf83 said:

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Here are a few points I have been thinking about tonight:

1. Nursing home patients and employees and workers in hospitals should be tested regularly. If any of these people are found to test positive, they should be isolated and anyone they are coming in contact with should also be isolated and assumed to be positive for the virus. The State of NC is actually experiencing a low number of cases and deaths when compared with other states and you could argue the state is not in crisis. As a result, NC has the perfect opportunity to now to put in place a policy of testing the most vulnerable populations in the state. I believe the government of NC needs to be working on and instituting these plans now.

2. Dr. Brix just said there are 18,000 of the Abbott Labs testing device spread throughout the country and they have millions of test kits ready to go. She said to date, a very small number of tests have been run through these machines and this is a problem. She said the machines and test kits currently deployed have the capacity to test every healthcare worker and do it with very fast results. She mentioned having a call tonight at 8pm with the heads of all the labs and it sounds like she is going to be pressing them hard on getting these tests going.

3. The media needs to be asking the governor and his staff if they know where these Abbott Labs machines are deployed in NC and if not, what are the doing to find them? If they do know where they are, the next question is do they have plans to use them to test people who treat and interface with the most vulnerable people in NC. They could and should be regularly testing healthcare workers (this has a two-fold benefit) and they should be testing all the staff in nursing homes and the nursing home population. People who have not been tested and cleared, should have zero access to a nursing home.

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That is to much to ask of Governor I Hate Farmers Cooper but hopefully someone in that government has the brains to do it.

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Isn't the limiting factor for test reagent, not Abbott testing machines, not test kits?

Just had a friend get tested. Said the dr explaining it said it was a new test that was approved by the FDA and is being announced tmr. Pin ***** blood test that lets you preemptively know in 15 mins but then they follow up the next day with 100% results. I don't know if it's bs or not...but i know the group of people who were also getting tested are heavy hitters. Who knows...maybe they just gave him corona instead of testing for it. Be interested to know if it was true or not.

I don't put much faith in these things, but it will be interesting to see if there is any trends when more antibody tests are done. So much BS and noise and fakes out there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fxi3hm/antibody_tests_in_denmark_shows_37_of_the/

Just saw another article about a hotspot town in Germany which had interim antibody results showing 15% infection.

Ground_Chuck said:

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RunsWithWolves26 said:

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Daviewolf83 said:

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Here are a few points I have been thinking about tonight:

1. Nursing home patients and employees and workers in hospitals should be tested regularly. If any of these people are found to test positive, they should be isolated and anyone they are coming in contact with should also be isolated and assumed to be positive for the virus. The State of NC is actually experiencing a low number of cases and deaths when compared with other states and you could argue the state is not in crisis. As a result, NC has the perfect opportunity to now to put in place a policy of testing the most vulnerable populations in the state. I believe the government of NC needs to be working on and instituting these plans now.

2. Dr. Brix just said there are 18,000 of the Abbott Labs testing device spread throughout the country and they have millions of test kits ready to go. She said to date, a very small number of tests have been run through these machines and this is a problem. She said the machines and test kits currently deployed have the capacity to test every healthcare worker and do it with very fast results. She mentioned having a call tonight at 8pm with the heads of all the labs and it sounds like she is going to be pressing them hard on getting these tests going.

3. The media needs to be asking the governor and his staff if they know where these Abbott Labs machines are deployed in NC and if not, what are the doing to find them? If they do know where they are, the next question is do they have plans to use them to test people who treat and interface with the most vulnerable people in NC. They could and should be regularly testing healthcare workers (this has a two-fold benefit) and they should be testing all the staff in nursing homes and the nursing home population. People who have not been tested and cleared, should have zero access to a nursing home.

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That is to much to ask of Governor I Hate Farmers Cooper but hopefully someone in that government has the brains to do it.

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Isn't the limiting factor for test reagent, not Abbott testing machines, not test kits?

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No - for this test reagent is not a limiting factor. The limiting factor is to get people to collect samples and put them in the machine. According to Dr. Birx, they have the test kits that are utilized in the machine. You could tell by her comments that she was less than happy with the labs. They worked with Abbott Labs to develop a test that could give results in less than 15 minutes, it was rapidly approved by FDA, and it is not being used. As she said, they could have tested every healthcare worker in the US with the currently available tests and already have their results.

I have an orthopod buddy who coughed twice in the OR 2 weeks ago and got tested. Came back negative. Doesn't mean he hasn't had it, doesn't mean he doesn't have it now, and really only makes me moderately confident he didn't have it then (if he truly showed signs of infection, which he didn't).

We dont really know about herd immunity with this one. Is this one of those viruses where antibodies last 3-5 days, or 4 months? Healthcare workers that have recovered... Are they on the front lines working without PPE confident they're free and clear?

I understand that in an ideal world we'd have the capacity to test, Trace, and treat every human. With 100% sensitivity, 100% compliance, effective treatment, and isolation we could beat this thing quicker and await a hopeful vaccine. But short of that, at least to me, tests only tell me I probably do or don't have it at the time of testing. Healthcare workers (and high risk individuals) would have to be tested as often as they have to change their masks. Thoughts?

Some of you have some really wonderful ideas, but I have to assume plenty of epidemiologists/scientists/researchers/doctors/kit producers blah blah blah have the same thoughts. So do we assume there's some good reason some of this isn't yet common practice, or do we a assume there are bad reasons?

What would you consider a good reason?

wnosaj83 said:

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What would you consider a good reason?

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You can't think of legitimate reasons why there wouldn't be universal or widespread testing at this point?

I have a hard time assuming those who have shut us down to hopefully protect us (to the point that so many are complaining) are at the very same time willfully withholding (for some nefarious reason) available testing or treatment to those very same people they're working so hard to protect. You or we may not agree with their decisions, but we also aren't privy to the information they have. And I get it, you can then assume their info is just bad for whatever reason you want. We all view things through different lens, and that's why opinions are all over the board I guess.

Mormad said:

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wnosaj83 said:

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What would you consider a good reason?

---

You can't think of legitimate reasons why there wouldn't be universal or widespread testing at this point?

I have a hard time assuming those who have shut us down to hopefully protect us (to the point that so many are complaining) are at the very same time willfully withholding (for some nefarious reason) available testing or treatment to those very same people they're working so hard to protect. You or we may not agree with their decisions, but we also aren't privy to the information they have. And I get it, you can then assume their info is just bad for whatever reason you want. We all view things through different lens, and that's why opinions are all over the board I guess.

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Incompetence? Unable to multi-task, so focused on hospital capacity, testing not prioritized? Supply-chain issues? If there are supply issues, at least put the framework and structure in place to handle testing when those kinks are let up.

Hell, why are we using the DPA for a bunch of ventilators that we will now likely never need instead of using it to develop a test infrastructure?

I don't know any of the reasons because the people in charge don't tell us why they aren't implementing a plan and no one bothers to ask.

Wayland said:

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Mormad said:

---

wnosaj83 said:

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What would you consider a good reason?

---

You can't think of legitimate reasons why there wouldn't be universal or widespread testing at this point?

I have a hard time assuming those who have shut us down to hopefully protect us (to the point that so many are complaining) are at the very same time willfully withholding (for some nefarious reason) available testing or treatment to those very same people they're working so hard to protect. You or we may not agree with their decisions, but we also aren't privy to the information they have. And I get it, you can then assume their info is just bad for whatever reason you want. We all view things through different lens, and that's why opinions are all over the board I guess.

---

Incompetence? Unable to multi-task, so focused on hospital capacity, testing not prioritized? Supply-chain issues? If there are supply issues, at least put the framework and structure in place to handle testing when those kinks are let up.

Hell, why are we using the DPA for a bunch of ventilators that we will now likely never need instead of using it to develop a test infrastructure?

I don't know any of the reasons because the people in charge don't tell us why they aren't implementing a plan and no one bothers to ask.

---

All good points. And I can think of about 7 more.

I find it interesting what drives differing sentiments regarding this pandemic. It's sometimes not solid science.

There are those who have never written a prescription who can't understand why plaquenil isn't handed out like breath mints. (And yes there are protocols for giving it to the very sick)

And yet a very intelligent doc who hates Trump said in conversation, "our president thinks it's (plaquenil) a game changer, but everybody else thinks it's just asinine." No, bud, that's an uniformed asinine statement based on hatred and politics. And that's from one of my peers who has championed this pandemic as " a very real crisis" from the get go and championed closing the OR. But his thoughts are based in politics, not science.

Another 6.6 million new unemployment claims last week. Brings the total to 17 million over 3 weeks.

Mormad said:

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wnosaj83 said:

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What would you consider a good reason?

---

You can't think of legitimate reasons why there wouldn't be universal or widespread testing at this point?

I have a hard time assuming those who have shut us down to hopefully protect us (to the point that so many are complaining) are at the very same time willfully withholding (for some nefarious reason) available testing or treatment to those very same people they're working so hard to protect. You or we may not agree with their decisions, but we also aren't privy to the information they have. And I get it, you can then assume their info is just bad for whatever reason you want. We all view things through different lens, and that's why opinions are all over the board I guess.

---

I do not think the state leaders are willfully withholding information for nefarious reasons. I think they honestly believe they are giving us the information we need at this time. The people who are in a position to ask for information and get some answers (the new media) have seemed unwilling or unable to ask the right questions. I really do not understand why this is the case. It is almost like they are all living in the same bubble and are only talking to each other and not to the average citizen (possibly due to the lock-downs). I think part of the issue is the press conference format. It keeps the reporters isolated on the phone and there is an operator fielding the questions. There only seems to be a chance to ask one question with no follow-up question capability. We use this format for large presentations and quarterly updates for our business unit where I work, since we have employees located around the world. It is not the best method for one-to-one communication.

As a benchmark, I believe Governor Cuomo is doing an outstanding job of communicating updates and starting to talk about the future. His press conferences have reporters in the room (well spaced out) and they are able to ask questions in a more one-on-one setting. I wish NC was doing something similar and providing equally valuable information to what NY's governor is doing.

Again, the state leaders may believe they are giving us the updates we need for this point in time, but it does not demonstrate they are planning. On top of this, they put out their own model the other day and it was instantly picked apart. Many other states are also using their own model and they seem to be about as good as the one NC put out. Most of the attention of the federal government appears to be focused on the IHME model from Washington and this is the reason I look to it.

Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the government's leadership to provide confidence in what they are doing to handle the crisis and what they are currently doing is not providing confidence - at least on my part. This is not political and I do not care what party is in charge. I am just as frustrated at certain elements of President Trump's daily updates. Some of his updates are good, but much of it is filled with hyperbole and grandstanding. I always look forward to the portion of the press conference when we hear from Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci. I find them to be very much in command of the facts and I get a great deal of confidence from what they say.

PossumJenkins said:

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Another 6.6 million new unemployment claims last week. Brings the total to 17 million over 3 weeks.

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That's awesome news. Currently at about 1,150 able bodied workers unemployed for each death. Where's the freakin suicide gif...

Mormad said:

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I find it interesting what drives differing sentiments regarding this pandemic. It's sometimes not solid science.

There are those who have never written a prescription who can't understand why plaquenil isn't handed out like breath mints. (And yes there are protocols for giving it to the very sick)

And yet a very intelligent doc who hates Trump said in conversation, "our president thinks it's (plaquenil) a game changer, but everybody else thinks it's just asinine." No, bud, that's an uniformed asinine statement based on hatred and politics. And that's from one of my peers who has championed this pandemic as " a very real crisis" from the get go and championed closing the OR. But his thoughts are based in politics, not science.

---

I think this has been handled poorly by government officials at all levels and by both parties. I don't care what political party someone is right now, if they can lead effectively, do it. Too much news is being filtered through a political lens or being laced with melodrama to provide ratings.

Things are bad, this is a crisis. Is this a moderately contagious virus with a high fatality rate or an extremely contagious virus with a low fatality rate but is spreading super rapidly due to zero population immunity? What is the true count of 'hidden cases'? Either situation is dire, but a crazy high priority should be understanding penetration since that knowledge should be directing strategy and policy.

"Shut it all down" is not a policy, it is a stop gap.

Wayland said:

---

Mormad said:

---

I find it interesting what drives differing sentiments regarding this pandemic. It's sometimes not solid science.

There are those who have never written a prescription who can't understand why plaquenil isn't handed out like breath mints. (And yes there are protocols for giving it to the very sick)

And yet a very intelligent doc who hates Trump said in conversation, "our president thinks it's (plaquenil) a game changer, but everybody else thinks it's just asinine." No, bud, that's an uniformed asinine statement based on hatred and politics. And that's from one of my peers who has championed this pandemic as " a very real crisis" from the get go and championed closing the OR. But his thoughts are based in politics, not science.

---

I think this has been handled poorly by government officials at all levels and by both parties. I don't care what political party someone is right now, if they can lead effectively, do it. Too much news is being filtered through a political lens or being laced with melodrama to provide ratings.

Things are bad, this is a crisis. Is this a moderately contagious virus with a high fatality rate or an extremely contagious virus with a low fatality rate but is spreading super rapidly due to zero population immunity? What is the true count of 'hidden cases'? Either situation is dire, but a crazy high priority should be understanding penetration since that knowledge should be directing strategy and policy.

"Shut it all down" is not a policy, it is a stop gap.

---

Is it really a crisis, though? I guess if you live within 50 miles of NYC, I could agree. I'm a dumb hick and even I can see the concentration of cases and deaths in NYC and the surrounding counties. Surely the geniuses who run this country can see that, too. It's like using deaths in nursing homes in the overall numbers to make decisions. I've said from the beginning that civil unrest will become a problem, and we are nearing people's capacity to put up with these restrictions based on what's going on around them.

Daviewolf83 said:

---

Mormad said:

---

wnosaj83 said:

---

What would you consider a good reason?

---

You can't think of legitimate reasons why there wouldn't be universal or widespread testing at this point?

I have a hard time assuming those who have shut us down to hopefully protect us (to the point that so many are complaining) are at the very same time willfully withholding (for some nefarious reason) available testing or treatment to those very same people they're working so hard to protect. You or we may not agree with their decisions, but we also aren't privy to the information they have. And I get it, you can then assume their info is just bad for whatever reason you want. We all view things through different lens, and that's why opinions are all over the board I guess.

---

I do not think the state leaders are willfully withholding information for nefarious reasons. I think they honestly believe they are giving us the information we need at this time. The people who are in a position to ask for information and get some answers (the new media) have seemed unwilling or unable to ask the right questions. I really do not understand why this is the case. It is almost like they are all living in the same bubble and are only talking to each other and not to the average citizen (possibly due to the lock-downs). I think part of the issue is the press conference format. It keeps the reporters isolated on the phone and there is an operator fielding the questions. There only seems to be a chance to ask one question with no follow-up question capability. We use this format for large presentations and quarterly updates for our business unit where I work, since we have employees located around the world. It is not the best method for one-to-one communication.

As a benchmark, I believe Governor Cuomo is doing an outstanding job of communicating updates and starting to talk about the future. His press conferences have reporters in the room (well spaced out) and they are able to ask questions in a more one-on-one setting. I wish NC was doing something similar and providing equally valuable information to what NY's governor is doing.

Again, the state leaders may believe they are giving us the updates we need for this point in time, but it does not demonstrate they are planning. On top of this, they put out their own model the other day and it was instantly picked apart. Many other states are also using their own model and they seem to be about as good as the one NC put out. Most of the attention of the federal government appears to be focused on the IHME model from Washington and this is the reason I look to it.

Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the government's leadership to provide confidence in what they are doing to handle the crisis and what they are currently doing is not providing confidence - at least on my part. This is not political and I do not care what party is in charge. I am just as frustrated at certain elements of President Trump's daily updates. Some of his updates are good, but much of it is filled with hyperbole and grandstanding. I always look forward to the portion of the press conference when we hear from Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci. I find them to be very much in command of the facts and I get a great deal of confidence from what they say.

---

I certainly think there may be a groupthink bubble and it really is a situation of the leaders can't see the forest for the trees. Especially not being accustomed to a crisis of this magnitude or type.

I am certainly not trying to dog anyone, but watching the NC press conferences, Director Sprayberry seems to be out of his league. I wouldn't doubt that he is an all-star in coordinating responses to natural disasters (as that is likely what his job has entailed to this point) but at the pressers he really isn't hitting it out of the park.

I get this is a new problem and not what anyone signed up for, but it is time to start acting proactively and not reactively. (The Nursing Home Executive Order is great .... and about 3 weeks late).

Everpack said:

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Wayland said:

---

Mormad said:

---

I find it interesting what drives differing sentiments regarding this pandemic. It's sometimes not solid science.

There are those who have never written a prescription who can't understand why plaquenil isn't handed out like breath mints. (And yes there are protocols for giving it to the very sick)

And yet a very intelligent doc who hates Trump said in conversation, "our president thinks it's (plaquenil) a game changer, but everybody else thinks it's just asinine." No, bud, that's an uniformed asinine statement based on hatred and politics. And that's from one of my peers who has championed this pandemic as " a very real crisis" from the get go and championed closing the OR. But his thoughts are based in politics, not science.

---

I think this has been handled poorly by government officials at all levels and by both parties. I don't care what political party someone is right now, if they can lead effectively, do it. Too much news is being filtered through a political lens or being laced with melodrama to provide ratings.

Things are bad, this is a crisis. Is this a moderately contagious virus with a high fatality rate or an extremely contagious virus with a low fatality rate but is spreading super rapidly due to zero population immunity? What is the true count of 'hidden cases'? Either situation is dire, but a crazy high priority should be understanding penetration since that knowledge should be directing strategy and policy.

"Shut it all down" is not a policy, it is a stop gap.

---

Is it really a crisis, though? I guess if you live within 50 miles of NYC, I could agree. I'm a dumb hick and even I can see the concentration of cases and deaths in NYC and the surrounding counties. Surely the geniuses who run this country can see that, too. It's like using deaths in nursing homes in the overall numbers to make decisions. I've said from the beginning that civil unrest will become a problem, and we are nearing people's capacity to put up with these restrictions based on what's going on around them.

---

It has my position since the very beginning that we need hyper-vigilance on at risk populations (nursing homes, etc). Those communities should have all been under a constant microscope.

And I agree, I do think congregate at-risk deaths should be identified and tallied along side overall numbers. Seeing France include those numbers (along side AND included in their overall totals) is sobering BUT gives a clearer picture of where resources need to be assigned.

I think it's a crisis because we have made it one. I completely agree that super dense cities like NYC or places with huge gatherings like Mardi Gras need to continue to be locked down until their peak passes.

Even places like Charlotte where I am, despite having the most numbers in the State, shouldn't be on this total lockdown. We've been basically distancing since mid-March and now they're projecting that the social distancing has worked and that we will not have a peak until mid-May, and it won't overwhelm the hospital systems.

If that's the case, we need to start opening things back up so people can get back to life, focus on the most vulnerable populations, hell I'm fine with wearing masks and limiting shoppers at stores until the peak but right now we're basically shut down.

The whole NYC thing interested me enough to run some quick numbers. The top 5 counties affected in NY and NJ are all within 50 miles of NYC. There are more counties within this radius, but my numbers only include those ten counties. 10 counties in two states currently account for 167,771 total cases and 6,837 total deaths. That's 39% of the nationwide cases and 46% of the nationwide deaths in a 50 mile radius. For the record, there is 3.797 million square miles in the US. We've shut the country down for an outbreak that is centered in 0.21% of the land area, which just happens to be the most densely populated city in the US, with multiple international airport hubs, with the most diverse population. NYC is not a representation of the rest of the country. In fact, it is the anomaly. Fix NYC, and let the rest of us return to our normal lives.

Source: https://www.newsbreak.com/topics/covid-19

statefan91 said:

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I think it's a crisis because we have made it one. I completely agree that super dense cities like NYC or places with huge gatherings like Mardi Gras need to continue to be locked down until their peak passes.

Even places like Charlotte where I am, despite having the most numbers in the State, shouldn't be on this total lockdown. We've been basically distancing since mid-March and now they're projecting that the social distancing has worked and that we will not have a peak until mid-May, and it won't overwhelm the hospital systems.

If that's the case, we need to start opening things back up so people can get back to life, focus on the most vulnerable populations, hell I'm fine with wearing masks and limiting shoppers at stores until the peak but right now we're basically shut down.

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But what community leaders are going to suggest that and then get vilified in the media? We talk about herd-immunity....holy crap, the herd-mentality aspect of the media drives so much of what people are led to think, and leadership is not immune.
If anyone suggests opening back up, they get shredded -- almost always by the national media types -- to the point no one else is going to try. Even the sports media -- -just look at Dabo and other coaches who've even suggested playing several months down the road get blasted.

So now...could you really see a mayor of say Charlotte, or Asheville, etc...stepping up and saying, the #s are trending positively. Our people are now suffering in other ways, I'm going to open up x, y, and z for business. They'd be shouted down before the words were completely out of their mouths.

Everpack said:

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The whole NYC thing interested me enough to run some quick numbers. The top 5 counties affected in NY and NJ are all within 50 miles of NYC. There are more counties within this radius, but my numbers only include those ten counties. 10 counties in two states currently account for 167,771 total cases and 6,837 total deaths. That's 39% of the nationwide cases and 46% of the nationwide deaths in a 50 mile radius. For the record, there is 3.797 million square miles in the US. We've shut the country down for an outbreak that is centered in 0.21% of the land area, which just happens to be the most densely populated city in the US, with multiple international airport hubs, with the most diverse population. NYC is not a representation of the rest of the country. In fact, it is the anomaly. Fix NYC, and let the rest of us return to our normal lives.

---

I saw this today, and thought it was an interesting map as it covers cases per capita,

https://chartingcovid.com/

Everpack said:

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The whole NYC thing interested me enough to run some quick numbers. The top 5 counties affected in NY and NJ are all within 50 miles of NYC. There are more counties within this radius, but my numbers only include those ten counties. 10 counties in two states currently account for 167,771 total cases and 6,837 total deaths. That's 39% of the nationwide cases and 46% of the nationwide deaths in a 50 mile radius. For the record, there is 3.797 million square miles in the US. We've shut the country down for an outbreak that is centered in 0.21% of the land area, which just happens to be the most densely populated city in the US, with multiple international airport hubs, with the most diverse population. NYC is not a representation of the rest of the country. In fact, it is the anomaly. Fix NYC, and let the rest of us return to our normal lives.

Source: https://www.newsbreak.com/topics/covid-19

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I hear you....but lets take a look locally....I was supposed to go to Isle of Palms next week for family vaca. Cases in NC/SC seem to be shrinking and maybe we could practice reasonable social distancing still but live reasonably normally there. Lets say they opened it up.....I'm not sure I'd be very comfortable if I knew people from NYC/NJ were also escaping to that area and going out to the restaurants, etc. And how do you prevent that from happening?

Apologies. My intent was not be combative or insinuate any sentiment, a foreign concept on this board at times so i understand the conclusion you came to. I can think of legitimate reasons why there is not universal or widespread testing at this point. I was simply asking a question directed at a professional who seems to know much more on the crisis at hand than I do. I hope that there are good reasons and that there is a plan in place for increased testing. I wish someone would tell us more about those reasons and that plan.

Continuing to extend the stay at home orders without offering any other long term solutions to getting people back to work is punting on 4th and a foot. It's the safe thing to do, and I don't mean that from a public safety standpoint. We are just kicking the can down the road at this point, and unless there starts to be meaningful discussions relatively soon about how it's going to end, people are going to stop obeying the orders. Leadership needs to step up, and I don't care if they have a D or an R by their name. Maybe we should use the military to support the hospitals and contain flare ups while the rest of the country goes back to work. I don't know the answer, but another few weeks and I fear things are going to start getting messy.

Japan to pay firms to leave China. I'm hopeful we can lessen our dependence on them as well.

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3079126/japan-pay-firms-leave-china-relocate-production-elsewhere-part