packgrad said:

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Equally amazing how they don't see this but so willingly attack our country.

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You can love your country and also criticize it and want it to be better. The two ideas are independent.

PackBacker07 said:

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packgrad said:

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Equally amazing how they don't see this but so willingly attack our country.

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You can love your country and also criticize it and want it to be better. The two ideas are independent.

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Just don't put blame on China.

packgrad said:

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PackBacker07 said:

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packgrad said:

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Equally amazing how they don't see this but so willingly attack our country.

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You can love your country and also criticize it and want it to be better. The two ideas are independent.

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Just don't put blame on China.

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I assume you disagree with the post above since you brought up China, which I did not. I don't care if the index case was in China, Belize, or Vermont, some countries have handled it poorly and some have been better. Take what China says with a grain of salt, but I can see America's response for myself.

Let's see, they tried to blame this on our military, kicked journalists out of the country who tried to get all of the facts, tried to cover this up at the beginning when they could've prevented this from going global like it has and yet some are offended by us saying it came from China which it did. It's no different than the Spanish flu or MERS in my opinion. Everyone with half of a brain should be livid at them

wilmwolf80 said:

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cowboypack02 said:

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packgrad said:

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Reporter asks if someone in White House is calling it Kung Flu? Important question.

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There was a reporter who said she overheard it from someone yesterday during the press conference. I dunno if she actually heard it or not but its actually kinda funny

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Everybody is Kung Flu fighting
It's spreading fast as lightning

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Although the future is a little bit frightening...

Yeah, that next line hit a little too close to home.

King Leary said:

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China started this by caging wild animals including bats and various endangered species in confined spaces with thousands of human beings. Having zero health standards and then they covered up cases and information after the initial outbreak.

That's not really up for debate. Plus they're repeat offenders...SARS.

That doesn't even mention all the human rights violations that go on in China on a daily basis. They (the govt) are the bad guys in this whole situation.

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I would comment and agree with you, but RWW would delete my post for "derailing the thread."

China's coverup is definitely a huge problem.

They then got their **** together and we stuck our fingers in our ears for months.

Every country not named Singapore, Taiwan, and South Korea has bungled this beyond belief. Every single one. It's unreal.

PackBacker07 said:

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This is absolutely the sort of thing that's needed.

Bas2020 said:

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Does anybody in this country actually believe even 50% of anything the media says at this point ?


They've dug their own hole .

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Just listen to the CDC.

My boss and another Project Manager in our Charlotte office are now self-quarantined. They we both in Atlanta last week for a conference. Someone was positive.

Now Sunday my Manager was in contact with my Raleigh office's CSR, who had contact with tis week..

We shall see

GoPack2008 said:

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PackBacker07 said:

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This is absolutely the sort of thing that's needed.

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What REALLY needs to happen is to stop all these unnecessary shutdowns (of business, sports, etc), and to lift and reverse them. Not the government putting the citizenry in further debt -- on top of destroying the economy.

The biggest crisis here is not from the virus, but from the actions taken on the pretext of it. The economy is going to be absolutely devastated if these shutdowns remain in place for very long. I see many restaurants being forced out of business, for instance, by these executive orders shutting down dining at restaurants. They can't remain open for more than a few weeks without having customers. And that's just scratching the surface of the damage. The effect of all these initial job losses and business closures (in restaurants, sports-related, etc) will "trickle down" to the rest of the economy -- housing sales, vehicle sales, etc. Then people will start losing jobs at the jobs impacting those industries -- eventually including almost every sector of the economy.

PackBacker07 said:

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King Leary said:

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China started this by caging wild animals including bats and various endangered species in confined spaces with thousands of human beings. Having zero health standards and then they covered up cases and information after the initial outbreak.

That's not really up for debate. Plus they're repeat offenders...SARS.

That doesn't even mention all the human rights violations that go on in China on a daily basis. They (the govt) are the bad guys in this whole situation.

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Yes, China has a long history of human rights violations, but not sure how that has to do with COVID-19? They covered up cases, yes, but also mobilized for containment in ways the Western world cannot (not saying this right). My point is this is a non-citizen virus, and because the first known animal-human transmission was in China, that doesn't make it a "Chinese Virus." Some are using that name to stir up resentment and I really don't understand why?

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This is a really good podcast...

Our vulnerability is much greater than most people realize. Much of our food supply chain is tied to China. The question is not if swine flu will decimate U.S. livestock, but when. That's only one example. People in the know are aware, but how do you stop it. This is not a new problem. The Chinese government has consistently shown an unwillingness to clean this stuff up. The U.S. has been very complacent, but it is much harder and more expensive of a problem to deal with downstream. The Chinese government has now thrown out Western news organizations and two days later declared the outbreak beaten and it wants to get back to business. It has a familiar ring. We will see, but the past is not encouraging.

vanuel said:

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Our vulnerability is much greater than most people realize. Much of our food supply chain is tied to China. The question is not if swine flu will decimate U.S. livestock, but when. That's only one example. People in the know are aware, but how do you stop it. This is not a new problem. The Chinese government has consistently shown an unwillingness to clean this stuff up. The U.S. has been very complacent, but it is much harder and more expensive of a problem to deal with downstream. The Chinese government has now thrown out Western news organizations and two days later declared the outbreak beaten and it wants to get back to business. It has a familiar ring. We will see, but the past is not encouraging.

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I think that the threat of these viruses (swine flu, etc) is completely overblown -- but I 100% agree with your concern about being dependent on other nations for our food supply. As a nation, we should be completely independent and able to grow and produce food for ourselves.

Incidentally, the swine flu outbreak in 2009 was much more deadly than this supposed coronavirus -- killing 12,469 people in the United States, with 274,000 hospitalizations and 60.8 million infections.

But the regular flu kills about that same amount every year -- including 22,000 in the United States this 2019-2020 flu season.

I don't feel good about how this whole economic disaster is going. When government officials get asked about where the money is coming from for the grand scale handouts, there are no direct answers. I think the situation will deteriorate until the nation finds the balance between civil unrest and just saying whomever catches it, then we deal with it best we can and move on.

I continue to be highly skeptical of hidden agendas here.

Great time for pollen to get going.

NY times story about the inertial college report that's changed US and U.K. policy.

Report projected that if the US did nothing (nonshutdowns, quarantines), we'd have 2.2 million deaths.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/coronavirus-fatality-rate-white-house.amp.html

Up to 98 cases in NC. We're crossing the 100 mark today.

Only 2,500 tests have been performed, total, in the state.

Ground_Chuck said:

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NY times story about the inertial college report that's changed US and U.K. policy.

Report projected that if the US did nothing (nonshutdowns, quarantines), we'd have 2.2 million deaths.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/coronavirus-fatality-rate-white-house.amp.html

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Can't read this story. But the "regular" flu kills up to 650,000 per year worldwide. If they are basing this "2.2 million death" prediction based upon the initially claimed higher death rate of coronavirus ("3.4%" or whatever it was), then I believe this prediction is deeply flawed. That initial death rate was based upon only the confirmed number of cases of coronavirus, which were confirmed via testing. But only a very small percentage of the population has been tested. In reality, probably 20+ times people have already had coronavirus (versus the number confirmed via testing), and the vast majority had mild symptoms and have completely recovered. The true death rate of cornoavirus is, therefore, much lower than initially claimed.

GuerrillaPack said:

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Ground_Chuck said:

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NY times story about the inertial college report that's changed US and U.K. policy.

Report projected that if the US did nothing (nonshutdowns, quarantines), we'd have 2.2 million deaths.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/coronavirus-fatality-rate-white-house.amp.html

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Can't read this story. But the "regular" flu kills up to 650,000 per year worldwide. If they are basing this "2.2 million death" prediction based upon the initially claimed higher death rate of coronavirus ("3.4%" or whatever it was), then I believe this prediction is deeply flawed. That initial death rate was based upon only the confirmed number of cases of coronavirus, which were confirmed via testing. But only a very small percentage of the population has been tested. In reality, probably 20+ times people have already had coronavirus (versus the number confirmed via testing), and the vast majority had mild symptoms and have completely recovered. The true death rate of cornoavirus is, therefore, much lower than initially claimed.

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Its 2.2 million dead in the US. The death rate will skyrocket when we run out of ventilators. At that point, all serious cases are fatal.

The guy behind this modeling is the world expert.

IseWolf22 said:

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Up to 98 cases in NC. We're crossing the 100 mark today.

Only 2,500 tests have been performed, total, in the state.

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You have to figure that these numbers are going to explode.

GuerrillaPack said:

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I think that the threat of these viruses (swine flu, etc) is completely overblown -- but I 100% agree with your concern about being dependent on other nations for our food supply. As a nation, we should be completely independent and able to grow and produce food for ourselves.

Incidentally, the swine flu outbreak in 2009 was much more deadly than this supposed coronavirus -- killing 12,469 people in the United States, with 274,000 hospitalizations and 60.8 million infections.

But the regular flu kills about that same amount every year -- including 22,000 in the United States this 2019-2020 flu season.

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• Swine Flu (should we call it the American Flu?): .02% death rate (worldwide, per Reuters)
• Novel Coronoavirus/COVID-19: conservative 1-2% death rate

If you extrapolate COVID-19 to the American Flu infection number, it comes out to 608,000-1,216,000 US deaths. MATH!

PackBacker07 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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I think that the threat of these viruses (swine flu, etc) is completely overblown -- but I 100% agree with your concern about being dependent on other nations for our food supply. As a nation, we should be completely independent and able to grow and produce food for ourselves.

Incidentally, the swine flu outbreak in 2009 was much more deadly than this supposed coronavirus -- killing 12,469 people in the United States, with 274,000 hospitalizations and 60.8 million infections.

But the regular flu kills about that same amount every year -- including 22,000 in the United States this 2019-2020 flu season.

---

• Swine Flu (should we call it the American Flu?): .02% death rate (worldwide, per Reuters)
• Novel Coronoavirus/COVID-19: conservative 1-2% death rate

If you extrapolate COVID-19 to the American Flu infection number, it comes out to 608,000-1,216,000 US deaths. MATH!

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Incomplete data leads to inaccurate extrapolation. Bad math. China flu peaks in the USA next week then starts tapering off.

PackBacker07 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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I think that the threat of these viruses (swine flu, etc) is completely overblown -- but I 100% agree with your concern about being dependent on other nations for our food supply. As a nation, we should be completely independent and able to grow and produce food for ourselves.

Incidentally, the swine flu outbreak in 2009 was much more deadly than this supposed coronavirus -- killing 12,469 people in the United States, with 274,000 hospitalizations and 60.8 million infections.

But the regular flu kills about that same amount every year -- including 22,000 in the United States this 2019-2020 flu season.

---

• Swine Flu (should we call it the American Flu?): .02% death rate (worldwide, per Reuters)
• Novel Coronoavirus/COVID-19: conservative 1-2% death rate

If you extrapolate COVID-19 to the American Flu infection number, it comes out to 608,000-1,216,000 US deaths. MATH!

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Why would we call Swine flu American Flu? It originated in Mexico so wouldn't it be correct to call is Mexican Flu?

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-422X-6-207

cowboypack02 said:

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Why would we call Swine flu American Flu? It originated in Mexico so wouldn't it be correct to call is Mexican Flu?

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-422X-6-207

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Per the CDC, the first case was in the USA? Who knows.

"It was detected first in the United States and spread quickly across the United States and the world."

Point being "China Virus" is something drummed up by our government to start an argument, to distract from their bungling of the situation from the start.

packgrad said:

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Incomplete data leads to inaccurate extrapolation. Bad math. China flu peaks in the USA next week then starts tapering off.

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This is an assumption. And I will give you that the extrapolation is an assumption as well, to show contrast. But to deny that 1% > .02%, that I do not understand. Point being, incomplete data is incomplete. So for people to downplay the severity because they point to final numbers of other diseases is comical, at best.

vanuel said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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Up to 98 cases in NC. We're crossing the 100 mark today.

Only 2,500 tests have been performed, total, in the state.

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You have to figure that these numbers are going to explode.

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In a suburb county and we have about a handful of confirmed cases, but there are 100+ in an official quarantine. Was reported we started the week with 15 tests on hand and only used 4. So, numbers are under-reported.

PackBacker07 said:

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packgrad said:

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Incomplete data leads to inaccurate extrapolation. Bad math. China flu peaks in the USA next week then starts tapering off.

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This is an assumption. And I will give you that the extrapolation is an assumption as well, to show contrast. But to deny that 1% > .02%, that I do not understand. Point being, incomplete data is incomplete. So for people to downplay the severity because they point to final numbers of other diseases is comical, at best.

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To play devils advocate. Isn't is equally comical to start this virus is so much worse then others in the past because we don't have complete data about it either? Basically asking is it comical to do that because of the numbers we have but without knowing how many actually have already had it before? Physicians have been saying for weeks, they were seeing this in November and December and couldn't diagnosis it because it wasn't testing positive for the flu.

Basically, both arguments are comical. You can assume that this is worse then other viruses of that other viruses are worse then this. Fact remains, neither side of the argument is right. COVID19 has nothing definitive as in numbers and won't for some time. It's very likely thousands and thousands have already had it and never knew they did. One thing is for sure. This virus is bad as were the other viruses. How bad it ends up being is TBD.

bsorry11 said:

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vanuel said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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Up to 98 cases in NC. We're crossing the 100 mark today.

Only 2,500 tests have been performed, total, in the state.

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You have to figure that these numbers are going to explode.

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In a suburb county and we have about a handful of confirmed cases, but there are 100+ in an official quarantine. Was reported we started the week with 15 tests on hand and only used 4. So, numbers are under-reported.

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I saw earlier that we have nowhere remotely enough reagent to run these tests, so even with the kits we are still ****ed some kind of proper. Almost comical, except that a lot of people are going to suffer terrible fates.

Right. At best what we have now are projections and estimations, because we really don't know. The people making these projections and analyzing this data are all very smart people, smarter than me, but they are definitely erring on the side of caution.

The way I see it, the US is a very different country from most every other country in the world. Geographic size, population density, freedom of travel, ethnic diversity. All of those things could affect how it spreads in this country vs. the rest of the world. When all is said and done, I hope that the data will be available to really look at these factors and maybe inform how we handle things like this in future.