cowboypack02 said:

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Daviewolf83 said:

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Wayland said:

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Haven't read this whole article yet, but looks like the cover up may be falling apart.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins

In a 12/9/20 @StateDept meeting, officials say they were explicitly told by colleagues not to explore Wuhan Institute of Virology’s gain-of-function research, because it would bring unwelcome att'n to U.S. gov't funding of it. /3 pic.twitter.com/TR80pTAxQt

— Katherine Eban (@KatherineEban) June 3, 2021

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The cover-up was going on as recently as a few weeks ago when The Elf was questioned by Senator Paul. He stated his organization did not fund "gain of function" research at the Wuhan lab which we know from actual documents was a lie.

The link to the article I posted above provides some info on how scientists with vested interests in covering up what the Wuhan lab was doing provides even more proof of a cover-up. Add to this, the information you just posted.

This is why I say the investigation into the source of the SARS-COV-2 virus can not be lead by the scientific community and it certainly can not be lead by the WHO. The WHO had their chance and failed miserably. The amateur investigators mentioned in the article I posted produced much more compelling information than the WHO and their "investigators" produced.

The investigation needs to be lead by US Intelligence, using the data gathered by the amateur investigators (they have a lot more info they are still going through) and information the intelligence investigators may possess. Scientists should be advisors to help the investigators understand the info, but they should not lead any investigation.

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Seems to me that we should start charging people with lying to Congress.....

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You would certainly think so. Apparently the propaganda arm is running interference for him to prevent just that. Think I read a tweet that MSNBC had Fauci on and said the release of Fauci's emails made him look better. There is literally zero effort to report the truth. It is all propaganda.

packgrad said:

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Wayland said:

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Haven't read this whole article yet, but looks like the cover up may be falling apart.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins

In a 12/9/20 @StateDept meeting, officials say they were explicitly told by colleagues not to explore Wuhan Institute of Virology’s gain-of-function research, because it would bring unwelcome att'n to U.S. gov't funding of it. /3 pic.twitter.com/TR80pTAxQt

— Katherine Eban (@KatherineEban) June 3, 2021

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Jeez. Daszak needs to be in a prison somewhere.

This was quite interesting as well.

"The inflammatory idea of SARS-CoV-2-as-bioweapon has gained traction as an alt-right conspiracy theory, but civilian research under Shi's supervision that has yet to be made public raises more realistic concerns. Shi's own comments to a science journal, and grant information available on a Chinese government database, suggest that in the past three years her team has tested two novel but undisclosed bat coronaviruses on humanized mice, to gauge their infectiousness. "

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I agree 100% on Daszak. Those were my exact thoughts last night as I read the Newsweek article. At the least, he should be stripped of his ability to fund and conduct any research in the future. He purposely and willingly worked behind the scenes to mislead and obfuscate any investigation into the potential of a lab-leak from the Wuhan virology lab.

Packchem91 said:

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TheStorm said:

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Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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Comparing the handling of a novel coronavirus to the border crisis isn't even close to the same. It's basically just trying to appeal to everyone as a centrist. There is nothing similar about the coronavirus and the border and how they should be handled.

It does not matter what Trump did. It would have been framed negatively. He blocked travel to China. Racist/xenophobic. Democrat leaders started appealing to their constituents to go to festivals. He says he didn't want to cause panic, so he was too weak. There is zero effort required to see that it did not matter what he did, it would be framed negatively. Absolutely he could have done some things better, but the goal was not working together to inform the public. The goal was to try to trip up the president and get him out of office.

Civ saying this could have been his 911 is ridiculous. We didn't have a state press back then. They were getting close, but not fully invested in propaganda like they are today. That is revisionist history to pretend 1 the situations are remotely similar and 2 that he would have been written about favorably. Heck we freaking have it on record that major news outlets said that things can be true even if Trump said it. Lol. They are admitting that they manufactured news. If Trump said/did something, they took the opposite position. Hell, just look at coverage of Trump getting ice cream versus Biden getting ice cream.

We still don't have evidence that lockdowns worked. Why would it have been strong for him to do more lockdowns early? Or is the position that Trump being strong on lockdowns would have ended them sooner because the left and their propaganda arm would have been against it? Trump was strong on manufacturing items as they were needed. Do we so easily forget how Trump was going to be responsible for all of the deaths from not having enough ventilators in NY, then they had more than they needed. Same with hospital beds. Same with PPD. Same with vaccines. Strong leadership was never looked for, nor credited. Critiqued leadership is all that was allowed. And unfortunately it seems they had the cdc working as partisans and not scientists.

But I know that doesn't matter, because Trump.

Edit to add. Jumping back to that border crisis comparison, Pence or Trump met with the media everyday to give updates. The current Vice President who was chosen to lead the response to the border crisis hasn't held a PC in 70 days. That would be much bigger news with the previous administration.

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Right, they were not the same in context. But leadership in crisis is leadership in crisis.

Look, I don't disagree with most of what you say -- I'm a believer the media, as a whole, had a major role in the divisiveness. They don't get a pass here...as I'd posted just yesterday, this lab revision is evidence they allowed emotion to get in the way

But sorry, you'll never convince me that Trump was a good leader thru the worst of the crisis. He suspended flights to China....ok, great. He also ridiculed and mocked those wearing masks (despite almost uniform medical guidance taht it would reduce spread (no one ever said prevent, except those who wanted to attack the message)). As for messaging -- he went on 60 Minutes to convey his message, and basically said he didn't want to tell the people it was serious. WTH? Your job is to keep your people safe. Tell them the truth....that this thing was deadly, and that they should treat it as such. CAlling people weak for wearing masks? That is the opposite of leadership.

But to me, most significantly....people, in times of crisis, want some compassion. He is perhaps the least compassionate person who has ever lead the country at least in the last 4 decades. (I don't know if Obama was really compassionate or not, but holy crap, could he look like he was). Whether it was the fault of the Chinese, Russians, Democrat media moguls, or aliens....at some point we had thousands of Americans dead and families impacted by loss of family members, health, and jobs....and I'm not sure he ever came across as being compassionate for that. And ultimately, that resonates.

If he'd been a compassionate leader, and told Americans to protect themselves and their loved ones, and acted like this thing was real from day one, he'd still be POTUS.

No way to prove that of course, just a gut feel, that those things would have been much more critical than a finely tuned economy.

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Didn't you and your family travel out west (I presume that you flew) on a major trip (Yellowstone or similar) right in the middle of when these compassionate "powers that be" were advising Americans not to travel (presumably to keep everybody "safe") during the midst of the pandemic about a year ago in June or thereabouts?

I mean we get it. You don't like Trump and you didn't like him before that either and you made that very, very clear in your posts at that time... so please stop trying to prop up Civ's revisionist history "this could have been Trump's 911" post.

It wouldn't have mattered what Trump did and you know it - and so to say otherwise here now is nothing but disingenuous.

The press attacked him and his press secretary beginning DAY 1 non-stop... the first 10 minutes of every single 6:30 PM national news broadcast on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, etc. was nothing but Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! (we've got him this time) and Russia! Russia! Russia!

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Yellowstone. You should try it....maybe you wouldn't be son angry all the time! IIRC, they'd actually just started allowing flights a month or so before with restrictions, but it was certainly a bit worrisome to hop on a fully loaded plane. But hey, I stayed busy going out to restaurants and shopping and vacations even thru Covid -- I figured i could control my own actions as a natural social distancer to stay safe.

We can agree to disagree on Trump's ability to be re-elected. Media hurt, but he p'd down his own leg way too many times.

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I'm not angry and I don't even have anything against you and your family going to Yellowstone last year either... but, what I am saying, is that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth... and if you think that if Trump taking a different stance on anything was going to get him more favorable coverage from the press, then I just don't know what to say. We all know better than that.

I too continued to live my life during covid and have no issue that you decided to live yours also...

wilmwolf80 said:

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There have been plenty of statements and propaganda that at least implied that wearing a mask would protect you from getting Covid. There have been plenty of debates about that in this very thread. I understand the mechanics behind saying that a mask could slow the transmission of Covid, but most of it has been about political theater for quite some time now. Knowing what we know now about the rate of asymptomatic cases being much lower than previously thought, and the risk of those people spreading the virus being low, I think that the wearing of masks by healthy people was fairly pointless, if a relatively harmless act weighed against potentially spreading the virus. I wore and continue to wear my mask as required, but it's very clear that for a segment of this country, wearing masks was virtue signalling, evidenced by how quickly we've gone from people having serious discussions about wearing multiple masks at once, to having mask mandates completely eliminated despite not yet meeting the vaccination goals.

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Are you still having to wear a mask in certain situations?

I haven't had one on even once since the Cooper announcement and I've been in tons of retailers and restaurants... I did carry one in the car for the first 2-3 days, but once I saw that I was in the clear everywhere, all over the place I discontinued that practice.

Yes, professionally there are situations where I am still requested to wear a mask. There are also a few places that I go to that have kept their requirements for masks, one restaurant in particular that I was in last week still required them.

It was a little funny to watch the Canes game the other night where you had a full house with no masks in the stands and none of the players on the ice or on the bench with masks, and yet the coaches had masks on.

dogplasma said:

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It was a little funny to watch the Canes game the other night where you had a full house with no masks in the stands and none of the players on the ice or on the bench with masks, and yet the coaches had masks on.

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I believe that is what they call "The Science" (tm) (r) ***

***(may or may not include actual science)

They've learned how to keep people from reading their lips?

Oldsouljer said:

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TheStorm said:

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wilmwolf80 said:

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There have been plenty of statements and propaganda that at least implied that wearing a mask would protect you from getting Covid. There have been plenty of debates about that in this very thread. I understand the mechanics behind saying that a mask could slow the transmission of Covid, but most of it has been about political theater for quite some time now. Knowing what we know now about the rate of asymptomatic cases being much lower than previously thought, and the risk of those people spreading the virus being low, I think that the wearing of masks by healthy people was fairly pointless, if a relatively harmless act weighed against potentially spreading the virus. I wore and continue to wear my mask as required, but it's very clear that for a segment of this country, wearing masks was virtue signalling, evidenced by how quickly we've gone from people having serious discussions about wearing multiple masks at once, to having mask mandates completely eliminated despite not yet meeting the vaccination goals.

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Are you still having to wear a mask in certain situations?

I haven't had one on even once since the Cooper announcement and I've been in tons of retailers and restaurants... I did carry one in the car for the first 2-3 days, but once I saw that I was in the clear everywhere, all over the place I discontinued that practice.

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Was pleasantly surprised to go into a Walgreens last night and find that they only "recommend" masks and even then, they go out of their way to exempt the vaccinated. At this point, I won't do business with any holdouts insisting on it.

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So had to go to an Atrium Healthcare Imaging Center to have a scan done. They had a "mask required" sign up. I had one with me, so no big deal to comply. But 2 Q's come to mind

1) Given your stance, as they are a holdout, would you just skip your appointment?
2) For the medical guys that post here -- why would medical offices still insist on all masks? If employees are not vaccinated, I could understand requiring them to wear masks but why patients?

dogplasma said:

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It was a little funny to watch the Canes game the other night where you had a full house with no masks in the stands and none of the players on the ice or on the bench with masks, and yet the coaches had masks on.

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I was at the first Canes came that did not require masks. We went to a game during the first round and masks were required and most people wore them throughout the game. This past weekend, we attended the first game against the Lightning and as we were waiting in line to enter, they placed a sign by the doors saying masks were "recommended." We asked and a security person confirmed we did not have to wear a mask if vaccinated. So, we entered without masks and watched the entire game, indoors with approximately 18,000 people and never wore our masks. I would estimate 5% of people still wore masks and that is fine. I am not judging anyone who continues to wear one, but I am not wearing one, if it is not required.

My wife and I had to go to Target last night and they have removed the signs on the door saying masks are required, so we did not wear one while shopping. Unlike the hockey game, I would estimate 90% of the people we saw in the store were wearing masks. My wife and I were some of the very few with no masks. After leaving there, we headed to a Walmart nearby. Of course, Walmart does not require masks to be worn and I would estimate approximately 50% of the people we saw in the store were not wearing a mask - same as my wife and I.

Every restaurant I have eaten in, since the lifting of the mask requirement, has not required the wearing of a mask. We did attend one function a couple of weeks ago (my son's college graduation) that required the wearing a mask while indoors. Once we exited the coliseum, we were able to remove our masks.

My son returned to campus this week for Summer conditioning and upon his return, he was tested for Covid (as were all athletes returning). Since he is vaccinated, he no longer is required to wear a mask while conditioning or weightlifting indoors or while outdoors. He also will not be tested anymore, unless he becomes symptomatic. He does have to complete the daily health-check screening and submit it to the database. Those who are not vaccinated yet (a very small percentage of players), must continue to wear a mask for all conditioning and weightlifting sessions. The unvaccinated players are also being tested weekly for Covid-19. If my son comes in contact with a person who is positive for Covid-19, he does not have to quarantine (like he did multiple times last season - he was never infected). Those players who are unvaccinated will have to quarantine if they do come in close contact with an infected individual.

I'm referring generally to optional business establishments more than, say, a healthcare facility, where I can choose their loser competition, if I don't like their stance.

Which leading into your second question, I can't answer. Hospitals have their policies and like government, they don't have to make sense.

Oldsouljer said:

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I'm referring generally to optional business establishments more than, say, a healthcare facility, where I can choose their loser competition, if I don't like their stance.

Which leading into your second question, I can't answer. Hospitals have their policies and like government, they don't have to make sense.

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OK....so, just where you have a "choice" - fair enough. I was in Sea Pines the last 5 days, and we were out and about a lot, and only saw one small store with a required mask. We didn't have our masks with us at the time, so did not go in. But most indoor places, still saw mixed bag -- workers often with masks on, customers -- almost all the older folks I saw had them on, but younger, no.

RE: medical offices....i wasn't bothered by it, but considering that should be the heart of scientific thinking, I was a little surprised. OTOH, i always feel like germs are jumping all over me when i walk into any medical building....

Daviewolf83 said:

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dogplasma said:

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It was a little funny to watch the Canes game the other night where you had a full house with no masks in the stands and none of the players on the ice or on the bench with masks, and yet the coaches had masks on.

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My wife and I had to go to Target last night and they have removed the signs on the door saying masks are required, so we did not wear one while shopping. Unlike the hockey game, I would estimate 90% of the people we saw in the store were wearing masks. My wife and I were some of the very few with no masks. After leaving there, we headed to a Walmart nearby. Of course, Walmart does not require masks to be worn and I would estimate approximately 50% of the people we saw in the store were not wearing a mask - same as my wife and I.

Every restaurant I have eaten in, since the lifting of the mask requirement, has not required the wearing of a mask. We did attend one function a couple of weeks ago (my son's college graduation) that required the wearing a mask while indoors. Once we exited the coliseum, we were able to remove our masks.

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Similar -- my 3 big retail stores are Target, Lowes, and HT. Target and HT still are heavily masked, Lowes -- more of a mix of construction / landscaping workers in the crowds, and seems like masking is out with that group (Which is ok if vaccinated).

Re: Target & HT -- I think it becomes the norm. We've been wearing them for a year. People have gotten used to it, its not like it really bothers you (unless you want to be bothered), so it just happens.
Restaurants -- well, its almost unnatural to wear one into a restaurant, and its going to come off if you stay there, so just seems easier to set them aside.

To your mask question, as far as our office is concerned, we have had no guidance from the administration to be able to stop requiring masks at this point. We do still see COVID patients, but these have dropped from 15-20 per day to roughly 5 per week. We have 16 employees at our office, 3 remain unvaccinated. Before GP jumps in here, all 3 are non-clinical individuals (meaning not a nurse or provider). Our county is at 30% with at least 1 dose currently and has not moved much over the past 2-3 weeks. We do see very immunocompromised individuals which would be the concern, but I think there are ways to protect them like we always have with other viruses in the past.

We continue to ask when we can stop masking, but have yet to get an answer at this point. I know we are all ready to get rid of them. It will likely (my guess) be a vaccinated can remove them at first and then expand to unvaccinated outside of viral/flu season. We shall see.

I have heard rumors from other providers that the CDC was very close to releasing formal guidance for healthcare specific entities, but they have not done that so far that I am aware of.

TheStorm said:

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I've been to Harris-Teeter at least 5 times since Cooper spoke and have never worn a mask once... I was in Target last Friday without one and no one said a thing or even bothered looking at me because there were plenty of others not wearing them either.

I can't believe that some people are still wearing them because of a sign that no one working in that store cares anything about.

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You can't believe the sheep that post on this board are still wearing masks??? Come'on man!!! LMAO....

Hell they hadn't had an original thought since they found CNN and MSNBC......

I for one enjoy seeing the idiots with masks on. They are the same ones that had on P@@#$^ hats and were screaming at the sky. It makes it easy to see who can think for themselves and who relies on the MSM for their thoughts.

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The "science" is always changing...

https://instagr.am/p/CPrJF7hhxaW

I was in a Starbucks last week and was the only one not wearing a mask. About what I expected for a Starbucks. Not the case in any big box hardware store I've stopped in in the triangle, with the majority not wearing masks. No small hardware shops I've stopped in have had any employees wearing masks, and haven't seen many customers wearing them either. HT and Food Lion were probably 50/50. CVS had just a couple customers wearing them. The light is starting to come on.

Burn, baby. Burn.

Watch this entire video with Admiral Giroir on how covid likely emerged from a Chinese lab where it had been created as a bioweapon using American tax dollars. He also essentially calls Dr. Fauci a liar: pic.twitter.com/SL0CzP1cvk

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) June 3, 2021

packgrad said:

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Burn, baby. Burn.

Watch this entire video with Admiral Giroir on how covid likely emerged from a Chinese lab where it had been created as a bioweapon using American tax dollars. He also essentially calls Dr. Fauci a liar: pic.twitter.com/SL0CzP1cvk

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) June 3, 2021

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Just wait until they later find out that it wasn't an "accidental" leak, but rather a purposeful "test"... and I'm sure that they have worse viruses than covid developed and ready if they need them...

Can't wait for the next round of "cockamamie right wing conspiracy" posts.