For all the complaining about Cooper on here over the last year I think the timing of this move is pretty much right, right?

Did anyone think elimination of capacity restrictions and most masking regs would or should happen consequentially earlier than this?

There was a lot of hand-wringing on here about the prospect of interminable mask regs, yet Cooper's team eliminated them at what seems like a very situationally appropriate time.

I give Cooper credit for reversing course when his IMO unattainable threshold for lifting of mandates was rendered completely untenable by the CDC's about face. Bring out the ticker tape parade.

Civilized said:

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For all the complaining about Cooper on here over the last year I think the timing of this move is pretty much right, right?

Did anyone think elimination of capacity restrictions and most masking regs would or should happen consequentially earlier than this?

There was a lot of hand-wringing on here about the prospect of interminable mask regs, yet Cooper's team eliminated them at what seems like a very situationally appropriate time.

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I mean. The vast majority SHOULD have been eliminated about 13 months ago. I think NPIs were largely ineffective and likely actually did net damage with all the adverse educational, economic, and non-COVID physical and mental health.

But here we are.

After the CDC guidance I expected a pivot early next week. After seeing a number of other states immediately pivot last night, today didn't surprise me.

I am just happy the CDC was able to catch up a bit.

Now, if we can just release the children, we are good to go. The fact that they are masked in camps this summer is silly.

Unvaxxed kids are still probably at less or similar risk than vaxxed adults.

Daviewolf83 said:

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Wayland said:

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Civilized said:

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For all the complaining about Cooper on here over the last year I think the timing of this move is pretty much right, right?

Did anyone think elimination of capacity restrictions and most masking regs would or should happen consequentially earlier than this?

There was a lot of hand-wringing on here about the prospect of interminable mask regs, yet Cooper's team eliminated them at what seems like a very situationally appropriate time.

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I mean. The vast majority SHOULD have been eliminated about 13 months ago.

After the CDC guidance I expected a pivot early next week. After seeing a number of other states immediately pivot last night, today didn't surprise me.

I am just happy the CDC was able to catch up a bit.

Now, if we can just release the children, we are good to go. The fact that they are masked in camps this summer is silly.

Unvaxxed kids are still probably at less or similar risk than vaxxed adults.

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I agree. Children should not be required to mask and the more adults get vaccinated, the more children are protected from infection.

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Keep vaccinating as many adults as are willing. Encourage those in especially high risk age groups and or pre-conditions. Use resources to meet people where they are.

Free the kids.

Civilized said:

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For all the complaining about Cooper on here over the last year I think the timing of this move is pretty much right, right?

Did anyone think elimination of capacity restrictions and most masking regs would or should happen consequentially earlier than this?

There was a lot of hand-wringing on here about the prospect of interminable mask regs, yet Cooper's team eliminated them at what seems like a very situationally appropriate time.

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Wrong.

BBW12OG said:

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I posted a question for you and your fellow medical community members. I'm being serious. The situations with the mfys (yankees) and the Ice Cream Queen wreak of false "science" and on the political side nothing but a power play.

How can they say they are following the science say that you have to wear a mask when the CDC just said you don't need to if you are vaccinated? Do you not see ANY hypocrisy in what has and is being told to the American people?

We have seen more flip flops in the last three months than you see at the beach. Sooner or later the chickens are going to come home to roost and this entire thing is going to be exposed.

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Thanks for asking, BB. If i can add some quick thoughts:

It would behoove us all to take new info, digest it, think about it, and form logical and reasonable ideas about what it all means. Jumping to emotional conclusions is about as accurate as curry math. And even less useful.

The Yankees situation, while concerning and thought provoking, does NOT prove the vaccines are ineffective. That's like saying seat belts don't work because some still die in car accidents. They received a vax that is only 70% effective. If you were DONE having kids, and the rhythm method were 70% effective, would you trust it to keep you from becoming Philip Rivers? Hell no.

I think it's actually good evidence the vax works. How many of the boys are sick? Wasn't that the goal? To reduce hospitalizations and deaths? Wasn't it packgrad who said just yesterday that he doesn't care about infection numbers, just hospitalizations and deaths? Because if we can convert the majority of infections to asymptomatic then we could assume viral loads are low and transmission rates will also come down, right? And the disease (not necessarily infection) will die on the vine, right? Will there be some outliers? Sure, didn't we say just yesterday we were smart enough to know these things were NEVER 100% effective? We just need them to be really good, not perfect, to affect this thing in really positive ways. Has it not proven to thus far? Are we so willfully blind to the positive effects the vaccines have already had?

So why the crisis? Why jump to ridiculous conclusions and scream to everybody that will listen that vaxxes MUST NOT WORK!! That wreaks of the paradox of our ignorance.

After the hilarious appropriately timed Cooper post, this seems to fit.

After this CDC decision the blue check brigade is shook right now. pic.twitter.com/cfXTLbrTpl

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) May 14, 2021

https://instagr.am/p/CO3MO8VHE70

Mormad said:

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BBW12OG said:

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I posted a question for you and your fellow medical community members. I'm being serious. The situations with the mfys (yankees) and the Ice Cream Queen wreak of false "science" and on the political side nothing but a power play.

How can they say they are following the science say that you have to wear a mask when the CDC just said you don't need to if you are vaccinated? Do you not see ANY hypocrisy in what has and is being told to the American people?

We have seen more flip flops in the last three months than you see at the beach. Sooner or later the chickens are going to come home to roost and this entire thing is going to be exposed.

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Thanks for asking, BB. If i can add some quick thoughts:

It would behoove us all to take new info, digest it, think about it, and form logical and reasonable ideas about what it all means. Jumping to emotional conclusions is about as accurate as curry math. And even less useful.

The Yankees situation, while concerning and thought provoking, does NOT prove the vaccines are ineffective. That's like saying seat belts don't work because some still die in car accidents. They received a vax that is only 70% effective. If you were DONE having kids, and the rhythm method were 70% effective, would you trust it to keep you from becoming Philip Rivers? Hell no.

I think it's actually good evidence the vax works. How many of the boys are sick? Wasn't that the goal? To reduce hospitalizations and deaths? Wasn't it packgrad who said just yesterday that he doesn't care about infection numbers, just hospitalizations and deaths? Because if we can convert the majority of infections to asymptomatic then we could assume viral loads are low and transmission rates will also come down, right? And the disease (not necessarily infection) will die on the vine, right? Will there be some outliers? Sure, didn't we say just yesterday we were smart enough to know these things were NEVER 100% effective? We just need them to be really good, not perfect, to affect this thing in really positive ways. Has it not proven to thus far? Are we so willfully blind to the positive effects the vaccines have already had?

So why the crisis? Why jump to ridiculous conclusions and scream to everybody that will listen that vaxxes MUST NOT WORK!! That wreaks of the paradox of our ignorance.

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My wife wanted to do the Bradley method for delivery of our first and we took a class in Raleigh with this cool reformed hippie instructor lady. Super chill and whimsical, just like you'd expect to be teaching that class and exactly what nervous first-time parents-to-be need.

She had a joke that went something like, "There's a method of birth control called 'the rhythm method', and the people that practice it are called 'parents'.

Update on the Yankees situation: Per Monica Gandhi, the players tested positive approximately 2 weeks after their only dose of the J&J vaccine. Full vaccination, per her, should be considered after 4 weeks for this particular vaccine. Studies have shown that antibodies need that full 4 weeks to be at high enough levels to prevent infection with that particular shot.

Also, only 1 of the players was symptomatic meaning the vaccines did work. It prevented anyone else on the team from getting it. Only one had COVID disease. This is why we don't recommend testing asymptomatic individuals after being vaccinated. You can get positives that don't really mean anything. It is a low viral load in the nose that is not transmissible to anyone else.

ETA: changed the wording a little bit. Good call Mormad.

PackPA2015 said:

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Update on the Yankees situation: Per Monica Gandhi, the players tested positive approximately 2 weeks after their only dose of the J&J vaccine. Full vaccination, per her, should be considered after 4 weeks for this particular vaccine. Studies have shown that antibodies need that full 4 weeks to be at high enough levels to prevent infection with that particular shot.

Also, only 1 of the players was symptomatic meaning the vaccines did work. It prevented anyone else on the team from getting it. Only one was truly "infected". This is why we don't recommend testing asymptomatic individuals after being vaccinated. You can get positives that don't really mean anything. It is a low viral load in the nose that is not transmissible to anyone else.

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I think you just refuted.

Hey, packPA, one thing we can't refute is that Dr. Ghandi must know that most of the 550k covid deaths were ACTUALLY from pneumonia, hypoxic respiratory failure, cardiac arrest, sepsis, venous thrombosis, hypotension, and circulatory collapse among other things. I almost feel dirty admitting that fact, as do you I'm quite sure.

Wearing a mask really doesn't bother me much so I will probably still have it on in certain situations. I'm fully vaccinated so I do worry less about it then before but I also understand, unlike some, that just because I've had both shots, I surely am not immune to it. I would prefer to never get it, not even a mild case because of the potential long term affects.

At the same time, I have no issue if others don't want to wear a mask, regardless if they have been vaccinated or not. I certianly won't belittle them because they don't wear one. I got vaccinated for others around me just as much as for myself so whatever people decide is best for them, I say go for it.

GuerrillaPack said:

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Mormad said:

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PackPA2015 said:

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Update on the Yankees situation: Per Monica Gandhi, the players tested positive approximately 2 weeks after their only dose of the J&J vaccine. Full vaccination, per her, should be considered after 4 weeks for this particular vaccine. Studies have shown that antibodies need that full 4 weeks to be at high enough levels to prevent infection with that particular shot.

Also, only 1 of the players was symptomatic meaning the vaccines did work. It prevented anyone else on the team from getting it. Only one was truly "infected". This is why we don't recommend testing asymptomatic individuals after being vaccinated. You can get positives that don't really mean anything. It is a low viral load in the nose that is not transmissible to anyone else.

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I think you just refuted.

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Ohhhh...so now "only one was infected"? That's not a refutation. That's CHANGING the story, moving the goalposts, and spin. The reality is that there are 8 infected (assuming the tests are accurate).

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Nope, that's understanding immunology and virology, something Monica Gandhi does better than the both of us.

He chose the wrong wording, but still chose to get his point across by putting "infected" in quotes.

His point, which does refute your assertion, is that while 8 were infected only one had the disease. (Eight are presumed to carry the virus, 7 without any symptoms, and 1 with mild symptoms and therefore, by definition, has the disease.)

Wayland said:

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Civilized said:

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For all the complaining about Cooper on here over the last year I think the timing of this move is pretty much right, right?

Did anyone think elimination of capacity restrictions and most masking regs would or should happen consequentially earlier than this?

There was a lot of hand-wringing on here about the prospect of interminable mask regs, yet Cooper's team eliminated them at what seems like a very situationally appropriate time.

---

I mean. The vast majority SHOULD have been eliminated about 13 months ago. I think NPIs were largely ineffective and likely actually did net damage with all the adverse educational, economic, and non-COVID physical and mental health.

But here we are.

After the CDC guidance I expected a pivot early next week. After seeing a number of other states immediately pivot last night, today didn't surprise me.

I am just happy the CDC was able to catch up a bit.

Now, if we can just release the children, we are good to go. The fact that they are masked in camps this summer is silly.

Unvaxxed kids are still probably at less or similar risk than vaxxed adults.

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I did and always have considered this insane practice to be child abuse.

GuerrillaPack said:

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Mormad said:

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He chose the wrong wording, but still chose to get his point across by putting "infected" in quotes.

His point, which does refute your assertion, is that while 8 were infected only one had the disease. (Eight are presumed to carry the virus, 7 without any symptoms, and 1 with mild symptoms and therefore, by definition, has the disease.)

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It's not "my assertion" that 8 are infected. That's what was reported. But now you have some doctor spinning it to say they are "not infected". Call that a "refutation" if you want. It's just spin, and a way to try to push a certain agenda.

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No, here are your assertions:

Looks like that "data" which "proved" that vaccination "significantly reduces" your chance of catching the new Black Plague is bogus. Shocker. Or the testing is bogus and these guys aren't even sick. I say both.

So you wanna scream when she says they weren't "infected" when you assert "these guys aren't even sick?" Funny thing is, you're correct that they aren't "sick." They're just infected. You just didn't get it

Your assertions, if you wanna be such a stickler for semantics, make no sense.

Assertion 1. The vaccines don't work because 8 players got infected

Assertion 2: the tests are bogus, because the players really aren't "sick"

Assertion 3: both!

But if the players aren't "sick" (by which YOU mean infected), how do you explain using that very fact as evidence that the vaccines don't work? If they're not infected, you can't argue the vax didn't work. Assertion 2 completely nullifies assertion 1, and makes assertion 3 impossible.

If they players are infected to support your notion that the vaccines are bogus, AND the tests are bogus, how can you trust the bogus tests to support your assertion that the vaccines don't work? And if the players are truly infected because the vaccine didn't work for them, then the tests were on the money! Additionally, you could make a really strong argument that the vax DID work for them because they AREN'T sick. They're just infected. And that, my friend, successfully refutes your assertions.

In a vacuum, your assertions could at least be argued. It would fail like a unc football player taking calculus at State, but you could argue. But using the Yankees situation to try to support your assertions is what's bogus.

BBW12OG said:

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Mormad said:

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Hey, packPA, one thing we can't refute is that Dr. Ghandi must know that most of the 550k covid deaths were ACTUALLY from pneumonia, hypoxic respiratory failure, cardiac arrest, sepsis, venous thrombosis, hypotension, and circulatory collapse among other things. I almost feel dirty admitting that fact, as do you I'm quite sure.

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Post of the damn thread. Thank you.

Also...how many tens of thousands were "reported" as Covid related.... there were car accidents, murders, suicides that were attributed to Covid if they tested positive AFTER they were killed.

The numbers were skewed as much if not more than football attendance at unc-cheat.

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I hate to burst your bubble, but all of those are complications from severe COVID-19 which was his point.

So one local business I follow on social media just posted that they will no longer require masks, but ask that customers choose to wear one if they care about other people (paraphrased). I would rather they just continue to require masks, which they have every right to do, than try to shame people with that passive aggressive statement. Unfortunately with more than a year of some folks on both sides tying mask wearing to political allegiances, morality, and all kinds of other BS, I foresee a continued culture war over this issue. Businesses should require or not require masks as they see fit, and customers can choose to patronize those business as best suits their proclivities. Just like people should be able to choose to continue to wear a mask if they feel that makes them safer, and respect the fact that I, as a vaccinated person, do not feel compelled to continue to wear a mask.

The virtue signalers won't go down without a fight. Just got back from Harris Teeter. I'd say probably 95% or more still had on masks.

Even after their beloved CDC says they don't need to. Sad.