Civilized said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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jadawson said:

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This election does not appear to have been a rebuke of the republican party. They still have a good chance of maintaining control of the Senate or atleast being evenly split, and they picked up seats in the House.

This is just a rebuke against Donald Trump and his divisive rhetoric and lack of a moral compass. There is nothing inspiring about Joe Biden as a candidate even for Democrats. He is not the reason there is a record number of ballots this election and nobody was excited to vote for him. He (will likely) win because he's not Donald Trump and people are tired of Trump and willing to come out in droves to vote for anyone that is not him. Much like in 2016 I think part of Trump's advantage was that he was not Hillary Clinton with all of her baggage, the same is true of him this time around.

The republican party just needs to do some self-analysis as to the direction they want to go. If they move back towards the center and get rid of the QAnon/conspiracy fringe that is seeping into control then i think they will find a lot more independents willing to go their way. Whether that happens or not is up in the air, they seem pretty satisfied with where they are right now outside of the results they are disputing.

---

Post of the day. Even as a Republican, I am happy to be rid of Trump. He's disgusted me his entire career, was disappointed he was our nominee 4 years ago, and though I'm 100% glad Hillary was not our president, Trump has been to divisive to be put into the most important job in the world.

I hope Biden will reach out across the aisle, and I hope the GOP will find some viable young candidates who aren't there to appease the far right wings of the party. I'd much rather steal some of the moderate left than the far right.

And the evangelicals need to line up behind someone with morals next time.

---

There is going to be post mortems in both parties and their will be major fights over the direction of the party.

The close loss gives Trumpism a leg to stand on when they argue that Republicans should embrace nationalism, and the culture war. Serious voices on the right want to reject classical liberalism and embrace us vs. them tactics to "win" the direction of the country. Trump isn't going away. Don Jr. will try to stay a voice in the party, and might run in 2024 or possibly for something like a senate seat. Cotton, Hawley, Gaetz, etc. will try to stay in this mold.
Instead the GOP should embrace moderates, minorities, and libertarians. Pursue small government solutions and focus on solutions that make the system more fair for everyone. Hailey, Kaisch, and others will represent that wing.

Democrats will also have their own series of fights. Already the Bernie wing is blaming Biden and moderate democrats for not winning the Senate. They are moral crusaders and wont just fall in line behind Pelosi.

---

100%

Heard a recap yesterday of a House Democrat conference call that lasted over three hours and was incredibly contentious. Huge schism between the far left socialism wing and mainstream/moderates. Basically the moderates were absolutely livid the right was able to so successfully seize on the anti-socialism theme so successfully up and down-ballot. The right being able to do so clearly cost the Dems the Senate and a more resounding House majority. It was actually discussed that no one in the party should ever use the word 'socialism' again.

There's a recognition with moderate Dems that far left, socialism rhetoric damages the party brand.

Dems have a tough slog ahead but theirs is a marriage of convenience to a large extent; the party has always been more of a coalition of partially overlapping interests rather than a highly unified base.

This election may quickly be viewed by the right as best case scenario. They get rid of their Trump problem, maintain control of the Senate (probably), and win back a meaningful number of House seats so Biden is quite limited in his ability to facilitate the left's agenda from the Oval Office. Regroup, and emerge stronger and more united in 2024.

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SexualChocolate said:

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After all the lawsuits and fraud is investigated, I hope Trump concedes. Gore eventually conceded then took it back then conceded again, lol. A peaceful transfer of power is essential for this country to move forward.

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jkpackfan said:

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Sure but was anything but peaceful. The dems and the media have been on him since day 1 with the Russia conspiracy bs.

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Cthepack said:

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What was the Russia probe about? I thought it was how they interfered to help Trump win the election.

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IseWolf22 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Its amazing to think back -- the South Carolina (which of course is a Red state) primary -- Joe Biden is dead in the water, flubbing his campaign, no momentum, behind the socialist wing of the party.

The Democratic party convinces all the other moderate candidates to suddenly drop out before Super Tuesday....because Biden they think is still the best candidate to beat Trump, and they have to stop Saunders, who would have never beaten Trump....and voila.

Its kind of ironic now that all the Left / Media is calling out Trump for trying to suppress the vote. They did pretty much the same thing by pulling all the candidates months ago. But I guess as long as its not Trump, its all good?

---

Wha?

The evidence was clear that Biden was going to romp the rest of the way. Bernie's claim was he would drive turnout, but he wasn't doing that in the primaries.

Consolidating the party behind a single nominee is not...even remotely analogous to voter suppression.

Voter suppression is about making it harder to vote, for example closing polling places, understaffing/underfunding polling places in specific areas. Candidates agreeing to drop out and consolidate behind one nominee is none of that.

---

How was it clear he was going to be the candidate? He'd struggled in 3 primaries before doing well in one?

I get its not the same as voter suppression -- but its certainly a powerful entity taking away diversity of vote from the voters to ensure the guy they wanted was going to be the primary choice.

---

DNC learned lessons from Trump's 2016 takeover of the GOP. Trump never had 50%+ support in the primaries, but he racked up wins against a fractured field with a solid base. If other candidates had cleared out earlier, he likely would not have won the nomination.
If you're a party official, it's completely reasonable to realize that Bernie is on track to do the same thing, and have a sit down with the moderate candidates. Discuss their chances and convince them they don't want their candidacy to end with Bernie as the nominee.

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packgrad said:

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Was the illegal spying on the Trump campaign part of the peaceful transition?

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IseWolf22 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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jadawson said:

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This election does not appear to have been a rebuke of the republican party. They still have a good chance of maintaining control of the Senate or atleast being evenly split, and they picked up seats in the House.

This is just a rebuke against Donald Trump and his divisive rhetoric and lack of a moral compass. There is nothing inspiring about Joe Biden as a candidate even for Democrats. He is not the reason there is a record number of ballots this election and nobody was excited to vote for him. He (will likely) win because he's not Donald Trump and people are tired of Trump and willing to come out in droves to vote for anyone that is not him. Much like in 2016 I think part of Trump's advantage was that he was not Hillary Clinton with all of her baggage, the same is true of him this time around.

The republican party just needs to do some self-analysis as to the direction they want to go. If they move back towards the center and get rid of the QAnon/conspiracy fringe that is seeping into control then i think they will find a lot more independents willing to go their way. Whether that happens or not is up in the air, they seem pretty satisfied with where they are right now outside of the results they are disputing.

---

Post of the day. Even as a Republican, I am happy to be rid of Trump. He's disgusted me his entire career, was disappointed he was our nominee 4 years ago, and though I'm 100% glad Hillary was not our president, Trump has been to divisive to be put into the most important job in the world.

I hope Biden will reach out across the aisle, and I hope the GOP will find some viable young candidates who aren't there to appease the far right wings of the party. I'd much rather steal some of the moderate left than the far right.

And the evangelicals need to line up behind someone with morals next time.

---

There is going to be post mortems in both parties and their will be major fights over the direction of the party.

The close loss gives Trumpism a leg to stand on when they argue that Republicans should embrace nationalism, and the culture war. Serious voices on the right want to reject classical liberalism and embrace us vs. them tactics to "win" the direction of the country. Trump isn't going away. Don Jr. will try to stay a voice in the party, and might run in 2024 or possibly for something like a senate seat. Cotton, Hawley, Gaetz, etc. will try to stay in this mold.
Instead the GOP should embrace moderates, minorities, and libertarians. Pursue small government solutions and focus on solutions that make the system more fair for everyone. Hailey, Kaisch, and others will represent that wing.

Democrats will also have their own series of fights. Already the Bernie wing is blaming Biden and moderate democrats for not winning the Senate. They are moral crusaders and wont just fall in line behind Pelosi.

---

Steve Williams said:

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On the one hand I have to give Trump credit. On a national scale you basically had Trump, Carlson, Hannity, Ingrahm and Limbaugh versus Twitter, Google, Yahoo, Apple, MSN, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, NPR, MSNBC and some of Fox. The deck was so stacked against him and still, with anti-Trump rhetoric shoved down the throats of Americans for the last four years, he still damned near won. I voted almost straight Republican despite being a registered Democrat simply because I don't want a nation where talking heads and media can dictate the direction of our country.

---

• The American Conservative (2002): conservative magazine
• The American Mind (2018): online magazine published by the Claremont Institute
• The American Spectator (19242004): former print magazine, now publishes online
• American Thinker (2003): daily online magazine
• Blaze Media (2018): a media company founded as the result of a merger between websites TheBlaze (2010) and Conservative Review (201418), which continues to run its TV channel CRTV since 2015. Alongside the new TV channel, it operates the website TheBlaze, and TheBlaze Radio Network (2012)
• Breitbart News (2007): conservative news website
• Chronicles (1977): cultural magazine
• City Journal (1990): public policy magazine
• Claremont Review of Books (2000): cultural and literary magazine
• CNSNews (1998): news website
• Colton Report (2010): news aggregator website
• Commentary (1945): neoconservative magazine
• Conservative Talk Radio
• The Daily Caller (2010): news website
• The Daily Wire (2015): news website
• Drudge Report (1995): news aggregator website
• The Federalist (2013): online magazine
• The First (2019): conservative news television, radio, and website
• First Things (1990): religious journal published by the Institute on Religion and Public Life
• Fox News Channel (1996): a cable TV channel part of the Fox News Media, itself owned by the Fox Corporation. It also has sister channels like Fox Business (2007), and Fox Broadcasting Company (1986)
• The Freeman (19502016): former libertarian magazine
• Free Republic (1997): website and online forum
• Hot Air (2006): political blog
• Human Events (19442013): former print magazine, now publishes online
• Liberal Hivemind (2016): YouTube channel
• Modern Age (1957): cultural, literary and political journal published by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute
• National Review (1955): leading conservative magazine, includes the online version National Review Online and the blog "The Corner"
• The New American (1985): conservative magazine
• The New Criterion (1982): cultural and literary magazine
• New York Post (1801): leading conservative newspaper
• Newsmax Media (1998): a media company began with the website Newsmax.com. Now includes a cable TV channel Newsmax TV (2014), and Newsmax magazine
• One America News Network (2013): a cable TV channel
• The Post Millennial (2017): Canadian online news magazine that covers U.S. politics
• Power Line (2002): political blog
• Quillette (2015): Australian online magazine that covers U.S. politics and culture
• Reader's Digest (1922): conservative magazine
• Reason (1968): libertarian magazine
• Rebel News (2015): Canadian news site that covers both Canadian and American news
• RedState (2004): political blog
• Ricochet (2010): center-right online community that hosts more than 50 free conservative podcasts
• Right Side Broadcasting Network (2014): conservative news website
• Sinclair Broadcast Group (1971): a telecommunications conglomarate which owns broadcasting stations, operates radio stations and TV channels, also provides digital service
• Spectator USA (2018): U.S. edition of the British current events magazine
• Townhall (1995): news website, magazine and radio operator
• The Wall Street Journal (1889): editorial section is conservative
• Washington Examiner: a former newspaper (2005), now a magazine (2013) and website
• The Washington Free Beacon (2012): news website
• The Washington Times (1982): conservative newspaper
• The Weekly Standard (19952018): former neoconservative magazine
• WorldNetDaily (1997): news website

Civilized said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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jadawson said:

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This election does not appear to have been a rebuke of the republican party. They still have a good chance of maintaining control of the Senate or atleast being evenly split, and they picked up seats in the House.

This is just a rebuke against Donald Trump and his divisive rhetoric and lack of a moral compass. There is nothing inspiring about Joe Biden as a candidate even for Democrats. He is not the reason there is a record number of ballots this election and nobody was excited to vote for him. He (will likely) win because he's not Donald Trump and people are tired of Trump and willing to come out in droves to vote for anyone that is not him. Much like in 2016 I think part of Trump's advantage was that he was not Hillary Clinton with all of her baggage, the same is true of him this time around.

The republican party just needs to do some self-analysis as to the direction they want to go. If they move back towards the center and get rid of the QAnon/conspiracy fringe that is seeping into control then i think they will find a lot more independents willing to go their way. Whether that happens or not is up in the air, they seem pretty satisfied with where they are right now outside of the results they are disputing.

---

Post of the day. Even as a Republican, I am happy to be rid of Trump. He's disgusted me his entire career, was disappointed he was our nominee 4 years ago, and though I'm 100% glad Hillary was not our president, Trump has been to divisive to be put into the most important job in the world.

I hope Biden will reach out across the aisle, and I hope the GOP will find some viable young candidates who aren't there to appease the far right wings of the party. I'd much rather steal some of the moderate left than the far right.

And the evangelicals need to line up behind someone with morals next time.

---

There is going to be post mortems in both parties and their will be major fights over the direction of the party.

The close loss gives Trumpism a leg to stand on when they argue that Republicans should embrace nationalism, and the culture war. Serious voices on the right want to reject classical liberalism and embrace us vs. them tactics to "win" the direction of the country. Trump isn't going away. Don Jr. will try to stay a voice in the party, and might run in 2024 or possibly for something like a senate seat. Cotton, Hawley, Gaetz, etc. will try to stay in this mold.
Instead the GOP should embrace moderates, minorities, and libertarians. Pursue small government solutions and focus on solutions that make the system more fair for everyone. Hailey, Kaisch, and others will represent that wing.

Democrats will also have their own series of fights. Already the Bernie wing is blaming Biden and moderate democrats for not winning the Senate. They are moral crusaders and wont just fall in line behind Pelosi.

---

100%

Heard a recap yesterday of a House Democrat conference call that lasted over three hours and was incredibly contentious. Huge schism between the far left socialism wing and mainstream/moderates. Basically the moderates were absolutely livid the right was able to so successfully seize on the anti-socialism theme so successfully up and down-ballot. The right being able to do so clearly cost the Dems the Senate and a more resounding House majority. It was actually discussed that no one in the party should ever use the word 'socialism' again.

There's a recognition with moderate Dems that far left, socialism rhetoric damages the party brand.

Dems have a tough slog ahead but theirs is a marriage of convenience to a large extent; the party has always been more of a coalition of partially overlapping interests rather than a highly unified base.

This election may quickly be viewed by the right as best case scenario. They get rid of their Trump problem, maintain control of the Senate (probably), and win back a meaningful number of House seats so Biden is quite limited in his ability to facilitate the left's agenda from the Oval Office. Regroup, and emerge stronger and more united in 2024.

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Packchem91 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Its amazing to think back -- the South Carolina (which of course is a Red state) primary -- Joe Biden is dead in the water, flubbing his campaign, no momentum, behind the socialist wing of the party.

The Democratic party convinces all the other moderate candidates to suddenly drop out before Super Tuesday....because Biden they think is still the best candidate to beat Trump, and they have to stop Saunders, who would have never beaten Trump....and voila.

Its kind of ironic now that all the Left / Media is calling out Trump for trying to suppress the vote. They did pretty much the same thing by pulling all the candidates months ago. But I guess as long as its not Trump, its all good?

---

Wha?

The evidence was clear that Biden was going to romp the rest of the way. Bernie's claim was he would drive turnout, but he wasn't doing that in the primaries.

Consolidating the party behind a single nominee is not...even remotely analogous to voter suppression.

Voter suppression is about making it harder to vote, for example closing polling places, understaffing/underfunding polling places in specific areas. Candidates agreeing to drop out and consolidate behind one nominee is none of that.

---

How was it clear he was going to be the candidate? He'd struggled in 3 primaries before doing well in one?

I get its not the same as voter suppression -- but its certainly a powerful entity taking away diversity of vote from the voters to ensure the guy they wanted was going to be the primary choice.

---

DNC learned lessons from Trump's 2016 takeover of the GOP. Trump never had 50%+ support in the primaries, but he racked up wins against a fractured field with a solid base. If other candidates had cleared out earlier, he likely would not have won the nomination.
If you're a party official, it's completely reasonable to realize that Bernie is on track to do the same thing, and have a sit down with the moderate candidates. Discuss their chances and convince them they don't want their candidacy to end with Bernie as the nominee.

---

And I don't disagree with that approach frankly -- and heck knows, I wish GOP had done same 4 years ago.

But lets not act (not you, just in general) like Dem voters further down the line were given an equal chance to vote on the candidates --- while I'm sure some would have dropped out AFTER Super Tuesday, lets not act like those candidates dropped out on their own accord. They were pretty much forced out --- and now will likely get plum positions.

And thats the way it works....and while that doesn't live up to "voter suppression", its a far cry from allowing the primary voters to make their full choice?

Ultimately, just like I believe 90% of college sports fans are identical regardless of whom they support....I believe politicians -- and those in charge who "make the decisions" -- are as well.

Trump is most certainly one of those who is a horrible exception.

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jadawson said:

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jkpackfan said:

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Sure but was anything but peaceful. The dems and the media have been on him since day 1 with the Russia conspiracy bs.

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Ok, but "peaceful transfer of power" is a defined term for democratic governments and how a president is treated by the media or a party has nothing at all to with it.

I would also bring up the lies about Obama from fox and others throughout his presidency but that's for a different argument

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IseWolf22 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Its amazing to think back -- the South Carolina (which of course is a Red state) primary -- Joe Biden is dead in the water, flubbing his campaign, no momentum, behind the socialist wing of the party.

The Democratic party convinces all the other moderate candidates to suddenly drop out before Super Tuesday....because Biden they think is still the best candidate to beat Trump, and they have to stop Saunders, who would have never beaten Trump....and voila.

Its kind of ironic now that all the Left / Media is calling out Trump for trying to suppress the vote. They did pretty much the same thing by pulling all the candidates months ago. But I guess as long as its not Trump, its all good?

---

Wha?

The evidence was clear that Biden was going to romp the rest of the way. Bernie's claim was he would drive turnout, but he wasn't doing that in the primaries.

Consolidating the party behind a single nominee is not...even remotely analogous to voter suppression.

Voter suppression is about making it harder to vote, for example closing polling places, understaffing/underfunding polling places in specific areas. Candidates agreeing to drop out and consolidate behind one nominee is none of that.

---

How was it clear he was going to be the candidate? He'd struggled in 3 primaries before doing well in one?

I get its not the same as voter suppression -- but its certainly a powerful entity taking away diversity of vote from the voters to ensure the guy they wanted was going to be the primary choice.

---

DNC learned lessons from Trump's 2016 takeover of the GOP. Trump never had 50%+ support in the primaries, but he racked up wins against a fractured field with a solid base. If other candidates had cleared out earlier, he likely would not have won the nomination.
If you're a party official, it's completely reasonable to realize that Bernie is on track to do the same thing, and have a sit down with the moderate candidates. Discuss their chances and convince them they don't want their candidacy to end with Bernie as the nominee.

---

And I don't disagree with that approach frankly -- and heck knows, I wish GOP had done same 4 years ago.

But lets not act (not you, just in general) like Dem voters further down the line were given an equal chance to vote on the candidates --- while I'm sure some would have dropped out AFTER Super Tuesday, lets not act like those candidates dropped out on their own accord. They were pretty much forced out --- and now will likely get plum positions.

And thats the way it works....and while that doesn't live up to "voter suppression", its a far cry from allowing the primary voters to make their full choice?

Ultimately, just like I believe 90% of college sports fans are identical regardless of whom they support....I believe politicians -- and those in charge who "make the decisions" -- are as well.

Trump is most certainly one of those who is a horrible exception.

---

I mean if you're really advocating to give voters a full range of choices that's great. I'd love that.

How about we start by allowing any candidate on all 50 ballots to participate in at least one presidential debate without an arbitrary 15% polling threshold (when most polls only include 2 Reps and Dems)
Let's reform our system and move to something like ranked choice voting which allows people to actually vote their conscious and.

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Civilized said:

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If he thinks these irregularities have been flagrant, I'd be curious to understand what irregularities he considers normal.

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PackBacker07 said:

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Trumpertons are taking this well.

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packgrad said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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ncsualum05 said:

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I know some of you think this was all legitimate and needs to be over soon, but buckle up b/c it's not. There will be multiple recounts, lawsuits, challenges, etc.

Georgia just confirmed this morning that there will be a recount. Even with a slight Biden lead there are military ballots left to be counted that will probably put Trump back up by a couple thousand. But regardless... it's going for a recount. With republican control at the state level I do not know what is going on in and around Atlanta but it stinks to high heaven. Shame on leadership there if they don't have things under control. Hopefully it's transparent.

Michigan and Wisconsin need to be investigated. There is plenty of fraud evidence there. It's all over social media... Jack Dorsey is trying to delete but they can't get all of it. Recounts with transparency are necessary. Illegal ballots need to get thrown out.

Nevada... same deal. Looks like they've found some evidence there as well.

Arizona... I don't know if Trump ends up winning it but it looks like it's been trending his way.

Pennsylvania... don't even get me started.

Guys we've never seen something on this mass scale be so shady. Multiple states were not allowing poll watchers to accurately watch counting for transparency. You have people going home at 11 on election night and then some staying back and accepting truck loads of ballots at 4 am. Most ballots all for Biden with not down ballot voting. It's very strange. Turnout in urban areas that favor democrats were level in most major cities across the country but there happens to be a turnout surge in Milwaukee, Detroit, Philly, Atlanta. That is so convenient. Great targeted get out the vote effort? Doubtful.

Is Biden more popular than Obama was?

If you hate Trump fine... many do. It's possible Biden could still win legitimately. But I refuse to accept this as it is and I hope that we get a clear result with all LEGAL ballots at the end of this.

If a party can call a president illegitimate and a Russian agent, investigate it for 3 years, impeach him over a Ukraine phone call, ignore and even censor the Biden's over seas corruption, accuse a supreme court nominee of being a gang rapist, then why in god's name could they not rig an election?

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More dangerous nonsense because you can't accept reality. Your dude lost.

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More dangerous nonsense because you can't accept reality. Neither have lost yet.

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GoPack2008 said:

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packgrad said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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ncsualum05 said:

---

I know some of you think this was all legitimate and needs to be over soon, but buckle up b/c it's not. There will be multiple recounts, lawsuits, challenges, etc.

Georgia just confirmed this morning that there will be a recount. Even with a slight Biden lead there are military ballots left to be counted that will probably put Trump back up by a couple thousand. But regardless... it's going for a recount. With republican control at the state level I do not know what is going on in and around Atlanta but it stinks to high heaven. Shame on leadership there if they don't have things under control. Hopefully it's transparent.

Michigan and Wisconsin need to be investigated. There is plenty of fraud evidence there. It's all over social media... Jack Dorsey is trying to delete but they can't get all of it. Recounts with transparency are necessary. Illegal ballots need to get thrown out.

Nevada... same deal. Looks like they've found some evidence there as well.

Arizona... I don't know if Trump ends up winning it but it looks like it's been trending his way.

Pennsylvania... don't even get me started.

Guys we've never seen something on this mass scale be so shady. Multiple states were not allowing poll watchers to accurately watch counting for transparency. You have people going home at 11 on election night and then some staying back and accepting truck loads of ballots at 4 am. Most ballots all for Biden with not down ballot voting. It's very strange. Turnout in urban areas that favor democrats were level in most major cities across the country but there happens to be a turnout surge in Milwaukee, Detroit, Philly, Atlanta. That is so convenient. Great targeted get out the vote effort? Doubtful.

Is Biden more popular than Obama was?

If you hate Trump fine... many do. It's possible Biden could still win legitimately. But I refuse to accept this as it is and I hope that we get a clear result with all LEGAL ballots at the end of this.

If a party can call a president illegitimate and a Russian agent, investigate it for 3 years, impeach him over a Ukraine phone call, ignore and even censor the Biden's over seas corruption, accuse a supreme court nominee of being a gang rapist, then why in god's name could they not rig an election?

---

More dangerous nonsense because you can't accept reality. Your dude lost.

---

More dangerous nonsense because you can't accept reality. Neither have lost yet.

---

The election is over. The remaining ballots in PA are leaning Biden, and Trump is off the pace he needs in the remaining AZ ballots.

Expect the race to be called when PA hits 30-40k margin for Biden. It's over.

---

IseWolf22 said:

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Packchem91 said:

---

IseWolf22 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

jadawson said:

---

This election does not appear to have been a rebuke of the republican party. They still have a good chance of maintaining control of the Senate or atleast being evenly split, and they picked up seats in the House.

This is just a rebuke against Donald Trump and his divisive rhetoric and lack of a moral compass. There is nothing inspiring about Joe Biden as a candidate even for Democrats. He is not the reason there is a record number of ballots this election and nobody was excited to vote for him. He (will likely) win because he's not Donald Trump and people are tired of Trump and willing to come out in droves to vote for anyone that is not him. Much like in 2016 I think part of Trump's advantage was that he was not Hillary Clinton with all of her baggage, the same is true of him this time around.

The republican party just needs to do some self-analysis as to the direction they want to go. If they move back towards the center and get rid of the QAnon/conspiracy fringe that is seeping into control then i think they will find a lot more independents willing to go their way. Whether that happens or not is up in the air, they seem pretty satisfied with where they are right now outside of the results they are disputing.

---

Post of the day. Even as a Republican, I am happy to be rid of Trump. He's disgusted me his entire career, was disappointed he was our nominee 4 years ago, and though I'm 100% glad Hillary was not our president, Trump has been to divisive to be put into the most important job in the world.

I hope Biden will reach out across the aisle, and I hope the GOP will find some viable young candidates who aren't there to appease the far right wings of the party. I'd much rather steal some of the moderate left than the far right.

And the evangelicals need to line up behind someone with morals next time.

---

There is going to be post mortems in both parties and their will be major fights over the direction of the party.

The close loss gives Trumpism a leg to stand on when they argue that Republicans should embrace nationalism, and the culture war. Serious voices on the right want to reject classical liberalism and embrace us vs. them tactics to "win" the direction of the country. Trump isn't going away. Don Jr. will try to stay a voice in the party, and might run in 2024 or possibly for something like a senate seat. Cotton, Hawley, Gaetz, etc. will try to stay in this mold.
Instead the GOP should embrace moderates, minorities, and libertarians. Pursue small government solutions and focus on solutions that make the system more fair for everyone. Hailey, Kaisch, and others will represent that wing.

Democrats will also have their own series of fights. Already the Bernie wing is blaming Biden and moderate democrats for not winning the Senate. They are moral crusaders and wont just fall in line behind Pelosi.

---

Whats crazy to me is --- Trump was so stupid, he really p'd away a golden opportunity to actually do something very few, if any, recent GOP candidates have been able to do --- make major inroads with black, and the hugely growing Hispanic voters.

I mean, pre-covid, he absolutely could point to the rising tide theory giving POC jobs, and better jobs. But his stubbornness to be painted into a racist corner with the far right wing, made sure most POC would never vote for him. Just simple things like word choices, carefully worded statements, a couple of reach outs across the aisle....and I think he would have gained a ton of votes from blacks.
Instead, most still saw him as THE shining example of the problem in America. And its those votes --- in surely record volumes -- that have ended his tenure.

But...something in messaging, for the GOP to build on.

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Look back at 2016. Trump came into power with all 3 branches of government. The 2018 senate map was very favorable. If Trump actually made progress on pulling us out of the middle east, passed healthcare reform that wasn't just a repeal without a replacement, forcefully disavowed white nationalists, etc, his entire term looks completely different.
But that's on Trump. He had the votes and couldn't get anything done besides tax reform. And tax reform would have been much more popular if he hadn't cut the top rates (Maybe we could have reduced the deficit). He had a revolving door at cabinet which further watered down his agenda. That's lack of leadership and decision making

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Packchem91 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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jadawson said:

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This election does not appear to have been a rebuke of the republican party. They still have a good chance of maintaining control of the Senate or atleast being evenly split, and they picked up seats in the House.

This is just a rebuke against Donald Trump and his divisive rhetoric and lack of a moral compass. There is nothing inspiring about Joe Biden as a candidate even for Democrats. He is not the reason there is a record number of ballots this election and nobody was excited to vote for him. He (will likely) win because he's not Donald Trump and people are tired of Trump and willing to come out in droves to vote for anyone that is not him. Much like in 2016 I think part of Trump's advantage was that he was not Hillary Clinton with all of her baggage, the same is true of him this time around.

The republican party just needs to do some self-analysis as to the direction they want to go. If they move back towards the center and get rid of the QAnon/conspiracy fringe that is seeping into control then i think they will find a lot more independents willing to go their way. Whether that happens or not is up in the air, they seem pretty satisfied with where they are right now outside of the results they are disputing.

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Post of the day. Even as a Republican, I am happy to be rid of Trump. He's disgusted me his entire career, was disappointed he was our nominee 4 years ago, and though I'm 100% glad Hillary was not our president, Trump has been to divisive to be put into the most important job in the world.

I hope Biden will reach out across the aisle, and I hope the GOP will find some viable young candidates who aren't there to appease the far right wings of the party. I'd much rather steal some of the moderate left than the far right.

And the evangelicals need to line up behind someone with morals next time.

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There is going to be post mortems in both parties and their will be major fights over the direction of the party.

The close loss gives Trumpism a leg to stand on when they argue that Republicans should embrace nationalism, and the culture war. Serious voices on the right want to reject classical liberalism and embrace us vs. them tactics to "win" the direction of the country. Trump isn't going away. Don Jr. will try to stay a voice in the party, and might run in 2024 or possibly for something like a senate seat. Cotton, Hawley, Gaetz, etc. will try to stay in this mold.
Instead the GOP should embrace moderates, minorities, and libertarians. Pursue small government solutions and focus on solutions that make the system more fair for everyone. Hailey, Kaisch, and others will represent that wing.

Democrats will also have their own series of fights. Already the Bernie wing is blaming Biden and moderate democrats for not winning the Senate. They are moral crusaders and wont just fall in line behind Pelosi.

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Whats crazy to me is --- Trump was so stupid, he really p'd away a golden opportunity to actually do something very few, if any, recent GOP candidates have been able to do --- make major inroads with black, and the hugely growing Hispanic voters.

I mean, pre-covid, he absolutely could point to the rising tide theory giving POC jobs, and better jobs. But his stubbornness to be painted into a racist corner with the far right wing, made sure most POC would never vote for him. Just simple things like word choices, carefully worded statements, a couple of reach outs across the aisle....and I think he would have gained a ton of votes from blacks.
Instead, most still saw him as THE shining example of the problem in America. And its those votes --- in surely record volumes -- that have ended his tenure.

But...something in messaging, for the GOP to build on.

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Look back at 2016. Trump came into power with all 3 branches of government. The 2018 senate map was very favorable. If Trump actually made progress on pulling us out of the middle east, passed healthcare reform that wasn't just a repeal without a replacement, forcefully disavowed white nationalists, etc, his entire term looks completely different.
But that's on Trump. He had the votes and couldn't get anything done besides tax reform. And tax reform would have been much more popular if he hadn't cut the top rates (Maybe we could have reduced the deficit). He had a revolving door at cabinet which further watered down his agenda. That's lack of leadership and decision making

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Yeah, the lack of healthcare reform looks bad. I mean, the guy was just not a POTUS. It's difficult to lead when you can't even maintain a staff. I'd love to see a scorecard in 2 years of key staff changes for Biden vs key staff changes for Trump.
We talk about how this impacts NC State football, with all the staff changes - heck, imagine what it does for a job as big as POTUS

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packgrad said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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packgrad said:

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GoPack2008 said:

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ncsualum05 said:

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I know some of you think this was all legitimate and needs to be over soon, but buckle up b/c it's not. There will be multiple recounts, lawsuits, challenges, etc.

Georgia just confirmed this morning that there will be a recount. Even with a slight Biden lead there are military ballots left to be counted that will probably put Trump back up by a couple thousand. But regardless... it's going for a recount. With republican control at the state level I do not know what is going on in and around Atlanta but it stinks to high heaven. Shame on leadership there if they don't have things under control. Hopefully it's transparent.

Michigan and Wisconsin need to be investigated. There is plenty of fraud evidence there. It's all over social media... Jack Dorsey is trying to delete but they can't get all of it. Recounts with transparency are necessary. Illegal ballots need to get thrown out.

Nevada... same deal. Looks like they've found some evidence there as well.

Arizona... I don't know if Trump ends up winning it but it looks like it's been trending his way.

Pennsylvania... don't even get me started.

Guys we've never seen something on this mass scale be so shady. Multiple states were not allowing poll watchers to accurately watch counting for transparency. You have people going home at 11 on election night and then some staying back and accepting truck loads of ballots at 4 am. Most ballots all for Biden with not down ballot voting. It's very strange. Turnout in urban areas that favor democrats were level in most major cities across the country but there happens to be a turnout surge in Milwaukee, Detroit, Philly, Atlanta. That is so convenient. Great targeted get out the vote effort? Doubtful.

Is Biden more popular than Obama was?

If you hate Trump fine... many do. It's possible Biden could still win legitimately. But I refuse to accept this as it is and I hope that we get a clear result with all LEGAL ballots at the end of this.

If a party can call a president illegitimate and a Russian agent, investigate it for 3 years, impeach him over a Ukraine phone call, ignore and even censor the Biden's over seas corruption, accuse a supreme court nominee of being a gang rapist, then why in god's name could they not rig an election?

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More dangerous nonsense because you can't accept reality. Your dude lost.

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More dangerous nonsense because you can't accept reality. Neither have lost yet.

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The election is over. The remaining ballots in PA are leaning Biden, and Trump is off the pace he needs in the remaining AZ ballots.

Expect the race to be called when PA hits 30-40k margin for Biden. It's over.

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It is very dangerous to say the race is over when it clearly is not. Your side, in particular, has shown instance after instance of not being able to handle bad news. It is extremely dangerous to put forth such propaganda before the race has been decided.

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