2024 Elections

388,421 Views | 4053 Replies | Last: 5 days ago by Werewolf
Civilized
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Oldsouljer said:

To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

When you talk about the risk of Trump being the nominee versus not, is that assessment simply in regard to the relative probabilities of him versus the field being able to beat Biden?

Or are you addressing their probable effectiveness/policies?
jkpackfan
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Oldsouljer said:

To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.
This is kinda where I am as well plus with all the bs charges they're trying to hit him with I've kinda come back around. I still do not like the guy but it's clear what the dems are trying to do here. I hope it all backfires on them.
TheStorm
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Civilized said:

Oldsouljer said:

To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

When you talk about the risk of Trump being the nominee versus not, is that assessment simply in regard to the relative probabilities of him versus the field being able to beat Biden?

Or are you addressing their probable effectiveness/policies?
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the vast majority of Trump's policies... and there never was when he was in office either.

You and people like you with their extreme, unshakable levels of TDS are why we are in this position that we are today.

Couldn't look past the "personalty" v the policies and what they did for the average American. You want to live your life (and your income) as a Republican... but you can't bring yourself to ever vote that way.

Enough with the Trump excuse.
Oldsouljer
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Civilized said:

Oldsouljer said:

To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

When you talk about the risk of Trump being the nominee versus not, is that assessment simply in regard to the relative probabilities of him versus the field being able to beat Biden?

Or are you addressing their probable effectiveness/policies?
Those are complex and nuanced questions. First let me say that I never said there's NO risk with him being the nominee, in terms of beating Biden. Just a little less risk than if his competitors seize the nom. DeSantis would probably be the best choice, but not sure he can regain momentum, and I think that's by design. I think the Dems know that persecuting Trump with lawfare is the best way to get him the nomination and I think he's the nominee they want. Which carries its own risk of backfiring. And I don't think the Dems are calculating that Trump has more appeal to African-Americans than other GOP candidates, which in my mind, is a dangerous underestimation. Another GOP nominee may have hidden flaws waiting to come to light, I doubt that Trump does. Example: Haley's desire to de-anonymize the internet would be her undoing.
CALS grad
Civilized
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TheStorm said:

Civilized said:

Oldsouljer said:

To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

When you talk about the risk of Trump being the nominee versus not, is that assessment simply in regard to the relative probabilities of him versus the field being able to beat Biden?

Or are you addressing their probable effectiveness/policies?
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the vast majority of Trump's policies... and there never was when he was in office either.

You and people like you with their extreme, unshakable levels of TDS are why we are in this position that we are today.

Couldn't look past the "personalty" v the policies and what they did for the average American. You want to live your life (and your income) as a Republican... but you can't bring yourself to ever vote that way.

Enough with the Trump excuse.

What position are we in, exactly? The position where our economy looks better than most other developed nations' post-COVID economies?

What policies exactly did he create that helped "the Average American?"

His tariffs that cost the US tens of thousands of jobs (as many as a quarter-million if you believe some studies?)

His executive order that stopped funding Social Security?

His attempts to repeal the ACA?

His attempts to end DACA?

His attempts to lower wages for documented migrant farmworkers?

His Tax cuts and jobs Act that facilitated further offshoring?

Yeah I'm sure working American families think Trump's policies were awesome.

Is Trump going to be better at filling positions with qualified candidates and actually governing this time around?

Or are his cabinet and circle of advisers going to be a revolving door again, with historically high numbers of key appointment positions left unfilled and an inability to craft and pass effective legislation despite his party controlling the Senate?

No need to talk about Trump's personality. Just focus on these aspects of his performance and ask yourself why you want that guy in the Big boy's chair again.
Civilized
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Oldsouljer said:

Civilized said:

Oldsouljer said:

To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

When you talk about the risk of Trump being the nominee versus not, is that assessment simply in regard to the relative probabilities of him versus the field being able to beat Biden?

Or are you addressing their probable effectiveness/policies?
Those are complex and nuanced questions. First let me say that I never said there's NO risk with him being the nominee, in terms of beating Biden. Just a little less risk than if his competitors seize the nom. DeSantis would probably be the best choice, but not sure he can regain momentum, and I think that's by design. I think the Dems know that persecuting Trump with lawfare is the best way to get him the nomination and I think he's the nominee they want. Which carries its own risk of backfiring. And I don't think the Dems are calculating that Trump has more appeal to African-Americans than other GOP candidates, which in my mind, is a dangerous underestimation. Another GOP nominee may have hidden flaws waiting to come to light, I doubt that Trump does. Example: Haley's desire to de-anonymize the internet would be her undoing.

Thanks souljer!

Do you think DeSantis is actually more electable than Haley or do you just like him better? I don't see how DeSantis has enough broad moderate appeal to win a general election. Trump doesn't have broad moderate appeal either but he galvanizes his base enough that he can count on 100% support from 30% of the country (or whatever his base comprises) so that may be enough after you top them with some anybody-but-Biden moderates. I don't think DeSantis has a built-in base to rely on like that.

I'd be interested to be a fly on the wall regarding pursuing Trump legally. I'd guess most on the left in positions to make such decisions want to pursue him legally because they actually think he behaved illegally. The classified docs, while colossally dumb on Trump's part to obstruct their return, don't get people excited, nor does the (likely also illegal) loan fraud he perpetrated in NY.

January 6 though was a bridge too far for a lot of Americans, myself included. His behavior was too callous, too dangerous, and likely too illegal to ignore.

Would prosecutors be pursuing the tax fraud and illegal docs cases but for his malfeasance on Jan 6? Who knows, but if you want to be a profoundly unlikeable human being and also operate like rules don't apply to you in any way, shape, or form, eventually you're going to get the horns. People sue unlikeable doctors a lot more than doctors they perceive as nice and empathetic and the same holds true with Trump.

Even if it's completely in the interest of self-preservation if you're going to be a completely unlikeable dick, best to not do things that are both highly visible and almost certainly illegal by the letter of the law because between people not liking you, political opportunism of your opponents, and also your actions actually being illegal you're creating an environment where legal pursuit of your misdeeds becomes highly likely.
SmaptyWolf
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Civilized said:

Oldsouljer said:

Civilized said:

Oldsouljer said:

To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

When you talk about the risk of Trump being the nominee versus not, is that assessment simply in regard to the relative probabilities of him versus the field being able to beat Biden?

Or are you addressing their probable effectiveness/policies?
Those are complex and nuanced questions. First let me say that I never said there's NO risk with him being the nominee, in terms of beating Biden. Just a little less risk than if his competitors seize the nom. DeSantis would probably be the best choice, but not sure he can regain momentum, and I think that's by design. I think the Dems know that persecuting Trump with lawfare is the best way to get him the nomination and I think he's the nominee they want. Which carries its own risk of backfiring. And I don't think the Dems are calculating that Trump has more appeal to African-Americans than other GOP candidates, which in my mind, is a dangerous underestimation. Another GOP nominee may have hidden flaws waiting to come to light, I doubt that Trump does. Example: Haley's desire to de-anonymize the internet would be her undoing.

Thanks souljer!

Do you think DeSantis is actually more electable than Haley or do you just like him better? I don't see how DeSantis has enough broad moderate appeal to win a general election. Trump doesn't have broad moderate appeal either but he galvanizes his base enough that he can count on 100% support from 30% of the country (or whatever his base comprises) so that may be enough after you top them with some anybody-but-Biden moderates. I don't think DeSantis has a built-in base to rely on like that.

I'd be interested to be a fly on the wall regarding pursuing Trump legally. I'd guess most on the left in positions to make such decisions want to pursue him legally because they actually think he behaved illegally. The classified docs, while colossally dumb on Trump's part to obstruct their return, don't get people excited, nor does the (likely also illegal) loan fraud he perpetrated in NY.

January 6 though was a bridge too far for a lot of Americans, myself included. His behavior was too callous, too dangerous, and likely too illegal to ignore.

Would prosecutors be pursuing the tax fraud and illegal docs cases but for his malfeasance on Jan 6? Who knows, but if you want to be a profoundly unlikeable human being and also operate like rules don't apply to you in any way, shape, or form, eventually you're going to get the horns. People sue unlikeable doctors a lot more than doctors they perceive as nice and empathetic and the same holds true with Trump.

Even if it's completely in the interest of self-preservation if you're going to be a completely unlikeable dick, best to not do things that are both highly visible and almost certainly illegal by the letter of the law because between people not liking you, political opportunism of your opponents, and also your actions actually being illegal you're creating an environment where legal pursuit of your misdeeds becomes highly likely.

It cracks me up that Trump's entire campaign slogan against Hillary was "LOCK HER UP!", predicated on a (gasp) low level classified doc that was found on her computer. How many crowds chanted "LOCK HER UP!" at his rallies do you imagine?

Meanwhile, once in office Trump appeared to be going for a Guinness Book World Record for criming, and now conservatives are like "I DECLAYA! Can you believe these uncivilized Democrats? Beauregard, get me mah smelling salts!" Never mind that the Justice Department actually going after Trump is packed to the gills with Republicans.
TheStorm
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https://www.foxnews.com/sports/stephen-a-smith-potential-joe-biden-replacement-democrat-party-2024-election

Hey, Civ! Sounds like he's referring to you during his lead-in here!
Werewolf
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Now put your think'n caps on fellas, see if you can figure this out.


TheStorm
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Hey Civ!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-coffee-shop-fires-employees-involved-antisemitic-behavior-towards-jewish-customer

Looks like another of the "groups" that are part of your party's "Coalition of Misfits" voting block hates Jewish people now too... the "mothership" better get to work on that, don't you think? Oh wait...

coalition /kliSH()n/
an alliance for combined action, especially a temporary alliance of political parties forming a government or of states.
Werewolf
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When are so-called MODERATE republicans going to figure this out?


Civilized
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TheStorm said:

Hey Civ!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-coffee-shop-fires-employees-involved-antisemitic-behavior-towards-jewish-customer

Looks like another of the "groups" that are part of your party's "Coalition of Misfits" voting block hates Jewish people now too... the "mothership" better get to work on that, don't you think? Oh wait...

coalition /kliSH()n/
an alliance for combined action, especially a temporary alliance of political parties forming a government or of states.

Hey Storm!

Can you clarify your question?

Some morally confused barista got into a verbal altercation with a Jewish customer and got fired for their stupidity.

What exactly do you want me to respond to?
TheStorm
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bill-clinton-ripped-hillarys-campaign-not-being-able-sell-troop-train-new-book-alleges

Just more evidence that Biden is nothing but a puppet for Obama and the Clintons.

Nice quote from Bill BTW.
Werewolf
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Sieve and Gobbler, hear the chants of our un brainwashed young military men ........chanting "USA, USA....." Patriots chanting my fellow Wolfpackers.........suck it up.

Werewolf
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We can wait for Nappy to explain.
Werewolf
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Can you hear the chant "USA"? How about it, #Sieve and #Gobbler?
caryking
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On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
SmaptyWolf
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caryking said:




The sex you're attracted to is clearly hardwired at birth, otherwise you wouldn't have so many conservatives (who are clearly battling muscular, shirtless demons) obsessing about this topic 24/7.
packgrad
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caryking said:



That is gold. Vivek dropping truth bombs all over the campaign.
Werewolf
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And some here still don't see it.. Geez, we are in trouble.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRcdgVnT/
packgrad
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Boy, doesn't this define the Democrat party today? Race baiting hypocrites.



https://nypost.com/2023/12/14/news/boston-mayor-michelle-wu-defends-electeds-of-color-holiday-party-after-invitation-backlash/
packgrad
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The Babylon Bee always delivers.

hokiewolf
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It's an election year next year? You don't say.....

Gas prices could fall to the lowest in 2 years (axios.com)
Originator of the Tony Adams Scale
TheStorm
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hokiewolf said:

It's an election year next year? You don't say.....

Gas prices could fall to the lowest in 2 years (axios.com)
LOL. Rumoring interest rates to slide down a portion of the way as well...

Won't ever get back to where it was under Trump again...
SmaptyWolf
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hokiewolf said:

It's an election year next year? You don't say.....

Gas prices could fall to the lowest in 2 years (axios.com)
Gas prices are high? Biden sux!

Gas prices are low? Biden conspiracy sux!

I think I'm seeing a pattern here.
SmaptyWolf
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TheStorm said:

hokiewolf said:

It's an election year next year? You don't say.....

Gas prices could fall to the lowest in 2 years (axios.com)
LOL. Rumoring interest rates to slide down a portion of the way as well...

Won't ever get back to where it was under Trump again...

Interest rates were even lower under Obama. I'm sure you'll give him credit for that.
Civilized
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What do presidents have to do with interest rates or gas prices?
Oldsouljer
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packgrad said:

The Babylon Bee always delivers.


Ha, yeah they do!
CALS grad
Oldsouljer
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TheStorm said:

hokiewolf said:

It's an election year next year? You don't say.....

Gas prices could fall to the lowest in 2 years (axios.com)
LOL. Rumoring interest rates to slide down a portion of the way as well...

Won't ever get back to where it was under Trump again...
Yes, but those ultra-low interest rates brought their own form of harm, too.
CALS grad
caryking
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Civilized said:

What do presidents have to do with interest rates or gas prices?
Please tell us…
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
caryking
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Oldsouljer said:

TheStorm said:

hokiewolf said:

It's an election year next year? You don't say.....

Gas prices could fall to the lowest in 2 years (axios.com)
LOL. Rumoring interest rates to slide down a portion of the way as well...

Won't ever get back to where it was under Trump again...
Yes, but those ultra-low interest rates brought their own form of harm, too.
Easy money…
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
SmaptyWolf
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caryking said:

Civilized said:

What do presidents have to do with interest rates or gas prices?
Please tell us…

Lol, pretty sure that was a rhetorical question. Of course the Water Cooler think tank knows the answer is 'nothing'.
Werewolf
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Werewolf
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A guy with family in Nicaragua tells me this is how the corrupt Nicaragua government keeps its political opponents from running for office

https://www.theblaze.com/news/colorado-supreme-court-trump-banned
SmaptyWolf
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Werewolf said:

A guy with family in Nicaragua tells me this is how the corrupt Nicaragua government keeps its political opponents from running for office

https://www.theblaze.com/news/colorado-supreme-court-trump-banned

It's so unfair! A President can't even try to stay in power after losing an election anymore without some un-American cabal coming after him!
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