Oldsouljer said:

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To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

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When you talk about the risk of Trump being the nominee versus not, is that assessment simply in regard to the relative probabilities of him versus the field being able to beat Biden?

Or are you addressing their probable effectiveness/policies?

Oldsouljer said:

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To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

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This is kinda where I am as well plus with all the bs charges they're trying to hit him with I've kinda come back around. I still do not like the guy but it's clear what the dems are trying to do here. I hope it all backfires on them.

Civilized said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

---

When you talk about the risk of Trump being the nominee versus not, is that assessment simply in regard to the relative probabilities of him versus the field being able to beat Biden?

Or are you addressing their probable effectiveness/policies?

---

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the vast majority of Trump's policies... and there never was when he was in office either.

You and people like you with their extreme, unshakable levels of TDS are why we are in this position that we are today.

Couldn't look past the "personalty" v the policies and what they did for the average American. You want to live your life (and your income) as a Republican... but you can't bring yourself to ever vote that way.

Enough with the Trump excuse.

Civilized said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

---

When you talk about the risk of Trump being the nominee versus not, is that assessment simply in regard to the relative probabilities of him versus the field being able to beat Biden?

Or are you addressing their probable effectiveness/policies?

---

Those are complex and nuanced questions. First let me say that I never said there's NO risk with him being the nominee, in terms of beating Biden. Just a little less risk than if his competitors seize the nom. DeSantis would probably be the best choice, but not sure he can regain momentum, and I think that's by design. I think the Dems know that persecuting Trump with lawfare is the best way to get him the nomination and I think he's the nominee they want. Which carries its own risk of backfiring. And I don't think the Dems are calculating that Trump has more appeal to African-Americans than other GOP candidates, which in my mind, is a dangerous underestimation. Another GOP nominee may have hidden flaws waiting to come to light, I doubt that Trump does. Example: Haley's desire to de-anonymize the internet would be her undoing.

Oldsouljer said:

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Civilized said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

---

When you talk about the risk of Trump being the nominee versus not, is that assessment simply in regard to the relative probabilities of him versus the field being able to beat Biden?

Or are you addressing their probable effectiveness/policies?

---

Those are complex and nuanced questions. First let me say that I never said there's NO risk with him being the nominee, in terms of beating Biden. Just a little less risk than if his competitors seize the nom. DeSantis would probably be the best choice, but not sure he can regain momentum, and I think that's by design. I think the Dems know that persecuting Trump with lawfare is the best way to get him the nomination and I think he's the nominee they want. Which carries its own risk of backfiring. And I don't think the Dems are calculating that Trump has more appeal to African-Americans than other GOP candidates, which in my mind, is a dangerous underestimation. Another GOP nominee may have hidden flaws waiting to come to light, I doubt that Trump does. Example: Haley's desire to de-anonymize the internet would be her undoing.

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Thanks souljer!

Do you think DeSantis is actually more electable than Haley or do you just like him better? I don't see how DeSantis has enough broad moderate appeal to win a general election. Trump doesn't have broad moderate appeal either but he galvanizes his base enough that he can count on 100% support from 30% of the country (or whatever his base comprises) so that may be enough after you top them with some anybody-but-Biden moderates. I don't think DeSantis has a built-in base to rely on like that.

I'd be interested to be a fly on the wall regarding pursuing Trump legally. I'd guess most on the left in positions to make such decisions want to pursue him legally because they actually think he behaved illegally. The classified docs, while colossally dumb on Trump's part to obstruct their return, don't get people excited, nor does the (likely also illegal) loan fraud he perpetrated in NY.

January 6 though was a bridge too far for a lot of Americans, myself included. His behavior was too callous, too dangerous, and likely too illegal to ignore.

Would prosecutors be pursuing the tax fraud and illegal docs cases but for his malfeasance on Jan 6? Who knows, but if you want to be a profoundly unlikeable human being and also operate like rules don't apply to you in any way, shape, or form, eventually you're going to get the horns. People sue unlikeable doctors a lot more than doctors they perceive as nice and empathetic and the same holds true with Trump.

Even if it's completely in the interest of self-preservation if you're going to be a completely unlikeable dick, best to not do things that are both highly visible and almost certainly illegal by the letter of the law because between people not liking you, political opportunism of your opponents, and also your actions actually being illegal you're creating an environment where legal pursuit of your misdeeds becomes highly likely.

Civilized said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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Civilized said:

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Oldsouljer said:

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To be honest, I've tuned out. Trump wasn't my first choice but I've gradually soured on the rest of the pack, and I think the risk of Trump not being the nominee is now greater than the risk of him being the nominee. I previous said gradually soured. Some of them like Haley and Scott were nonstarters from the beginning.

---

When you talk about the risk of Trump being the nominee versus not, is that assessment simply in regard to the relative probabilities of him versus the field being able to beat Biden?

Or are you addressing their probable effectiveness/policies?

---

Those are complex and nuanced questions. First let me say that I never said there's NO risk with him being the nominee, in terms of beating Biden. Just a little less risk than if his competitors seize the nom. DeSantis would probably be the best choice, but not sure he can regain momentum, and I think that's by design. I think the Dems know that persecuting Trump with lawfare is the best way to get him the nomination and I think he's the nominee they want. Which carries its own risk of backfiring. And I don't think the Dems are calculating that Trump has more appeal to African-Americans than other GOP candidates, which in my mind, is a dangerous underestimation. Another GOP nominee may have hidden flaws waiting to come to light, I doubt that Trump does. Example: Haley's desire to de-anonymize the internet would be her undoing.

---

Thanks souljer!

Do you think DeSantis is actually more electable than Haley or do you just like him better? I don't see how DeSantis has enough broad moderate appeal to win a general election. Trump doesn't have broad moderate appeal either but he galvanizes his base enough that he can count on 100% support from 30% of the country (or whatever his base comprises) so that may be enough after you top them with some anybody-but-Biden moderates. I don't think DeSantis has a built-in base to rely on like that.

I'd be interested to be a fly on the wall regarding pursuing Trump legally. I'd guess most on the left in positions to make such decisions want to pursue him legally because they actually think he behaved illegally. The classified docs, while colossally dumb on Trump's part to obstruct their return, don't get people excited, nor does the (likely also illegal) loan fraud he perpetrated in NY.

January 6 though was a bridge too far for a lot of Americans, myself included. His behavior was too callous, too dangerous, and likely too illegal to ignore.

Would prosecutors be pursuing the tax fraud and illegal docs cases but for his malfeasance on Jan 6? Who knows, but if you want to be a profoundly unlikeable human being and also operate like rules don't apply to you in any way, shape, or form, eventually you're going to get the horns. People sue unlikeable doctors a lot more than doctors they perceive as nice and empathetic and the same holds true with Trump.

Even if it's completely in the interest of self-preservation if you're going to be a completely unlikeable dick, best to not do things that are both highly visible and almost certainly illegal by the letter of the law because between people not liking you, political opportunism of your opponents, and also your actions actually being illegal you're creating an environment where legal pursuit of your misdeeds becomes highly likely.

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It cracks me up that Trump's entire campaign slogan against Hillary was "LOCK HER UP!", predicated on a (gasp) low level classified doc that was found on her computer. How many crowds chanted "LOCK HER UP!" at his rallies do you imagine?

Meanwhile, once in office Trump appeared to be going for a Guinness Book World Record for criming, and now conservatives are like "I DECLAYA! Can you believe these uncivilized Democrats? Beauregard, get me mah smelling salts!" Never mind that the Justice Department actually going after Trump is packed to the gills with Republicans.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/stephen-a-smith-potential-joe-biden-replacement-democrat-party-2024-election

Hey, Civ! Sounds like he's referring to you during his lead-in here!

Now put your think'n caps on fellas, see if you can figure this out.

What drugs are this people taking to think Haley can win? pic.twitter.com/0CBjdXLrut

— 1776 (@TheWakeninq) December 8, 2023

Hey Civ!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-coffee-shop-fires-employees-involved-antisemitic-behavior-towards-jewish-customer

Looks like another of the "groups" that are part of your party's "Coalition of Misfits" voting block hates Jewish people now too... the "mothership" better get to work on that, don't you think? Oh wait...

coalition /kliSH()n/
an alliance for combined action, especially a temporary alliance of political parties forming a government or of states.

When are so-called MODERATE republicans going to figure this out?

🔥 No bullshit, Watch this video, this is how much the fukcen GOP hates its voters pic.twitter.com/Z3rKfUbV7d

— Adam Townsend (@adamscrabble) December 8, 2023

TheStorm said:

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Hey Civ!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-coffee-shop-fires-employees-involved-antisemitic-behavior-towards-jewish-customer

Looks like another of the "groups" that are part of your party's "Coalition of Misfits" voting block hates Jewish people now too... the "mothership" better get to work on that, don't you think? Oh wait...

coalition /kliSH()n/
an alliance for combined action, especially a temporary alliance of political parties forming a government or of states.

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Hey Storm!

Can you clarify your question?

Some morally confused barista got into a verbal altercation with a Jewish customer and got fired for their stupidity.

What exactly do you want me to respond to?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bill-clinton-ripped-hillarys-campaign-not-being-able-sell-troop-train-new-book-alleges

Just more evidence that Biden is nothing but a puppet for Obama and the Clintons.

Nice quote from Bill BTW.

Sieve and Gobbler, hear the chants of our un brainwashed young military men ........chanting "USA, USA....." Patriots chanting my fellow Wolfpackers.........suck it up.

Flashback to President Trump getting a hero’s welcome at the Army vs Navy game. Why isn’t Joe Biden attending today's Army vs Navy game?
pic.twitter.com/MOSELHJJJz

— Charles R Downs (@TheCharlesDowns) December 9, 2023

We can wait for Nappy to explain.

TRUMP AT THE ARMY NAVY GAME TWO YEARS AGO pic.twitter.com/aFvXp85E1Y

— KENNETH GERARD SAPP (@KENNETHGERARDS2) December 10, 2023

Can you hear the chant "USA"? How about it, #Sieve and #Gobbler?

President Trump at the army navy game https://t.co/6dJmQLRRYr

— Sun (@sunislife_btc) December 10, 2023

Gay movement: the sex you’re attracted to is hardwired at birth, even though there’s no gay gene.

Trans movement: your sex is entirely fluid, even though there is a definitive sex chromosome.

LGBT movement: you must believe both of those things at once, or else you’re a bigot.

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) December 14, 2023

caryking said:

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Gay movement: the sex you’re attracted to is hardwired at birth, even though there’s no gay gene.

Trans movement: your sex is entirely fluid, even though there is a definitive sex chromosome.

LGBT movement: you must believe both of those things at once, or else you’re a bigot.

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) December 14, 2023

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That is gold. Vivek dropping truth bombs all over the campaign.

And some here still don't see it.. Geez, we are in trouble.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRcdgVnT/

Boy, doesn't this define the Democrat party today? Race baiting hypocrites.

Michelle Wu is the Democratic mayor of Boston. She is hosting a secret holiday party this week.
But there’s a catch: no whites allowed.

However, her aide accidentally sent out the invite to all councilors and not just to the “electeds of color,” as intended.

The aide sent a… pic.twitter.com/zCxCkw5C9g

— OutKick (@Outkick) December 14, 2023

https://nypost.com/2023/12/14/news/boston-mayor-michelle-wu-defends-electeds-of-color-holiday-party-after-invitation-backlash/

The Babylon Bee always delivers.

KKK Disbands As Progressive Left Accomplishing All Their Goals https://t.co/vgUSBWFLk7 pic.twitter.com/W02nYWuskR

— The Babylon Bee (@TheBabylonBee) December 14, 2023

It's an election year next year? You don't say.....

Gas prices could fall to the lowest in 2 years (axios.com)

hokiewolf said:

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It's an election year next year? You don't say.....

Gas prices could fall to the lowest in 2 years (axios.com)

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LOL. Rumoring interest rates to slide down a portion of the way as well...

Won't ever get back to where it was under Trump again...

packgrad said:

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The Babylon Bee always delivers.

KKK Disbands As Progressive Left Accomplishing All Their Goals https://t.co/vgUSBWFLk7 pic.twitter.com/W02nYWuskR

— The Babylon Bee (@TheBabylonBee) December 14, 2023

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Ha, yeah they do!

TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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It's an election year next year? You don't say.....

Gas prices could fall to the lowest in 2 years (axios.com)

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LOL. Rumoring interest rates to slide down a portion of the way as well...

Won't ever get back to where it was under Trump again...

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Yes, but those ultra-low interest rates brought their own form of harm, too.

Civilized said:

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What do presidents have to do with interest rates or gas prices?

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Please tell us…

Oldsouljer said:

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TheStorm said:

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hokiewolf said:

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It's an election year next year? You don't say.....

Gas prices could fall to the lowest in 2 years (axios.com)

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LOL. Rumoring interest rates to slide down a portion of the way as well...

Won't ever get back to where it was under Trump again...

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Yes, but those ultra-low interest rates brought their own form of harm, too.

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Easy money…

JUST IN: Tucker Carlson says he hates the idea of a Trump / Haley 2024 ticket and says he wouldn’t vote for it as he calls Haley a “creature of the oligarchs.”

🔥🔥🔥

“I would not only not vote for that ticket. I would advocate against it as strongly as I could.”

“I mean,… pic.twitter.com/nouaq4c6Fr

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) December 19, 2023

A guy with family in Nicaragua tells me this is how the corrupt Nicaragua government keeps its political opponents from running for office

https://www.theblaze.com/news/colorado-supreme-court-trump-banned