Cthepack said:
caryking said:
Cthepack said:
IseWolf22 said:
Cthepack said:
IseWolf22 said:
Cthepack said:
IseWolf22 said:
Cthepack said:
IseWolf22 said:
Cthepack said:
IseWolf22 said:
Cthepack said:
SmaptyWolf said:
Cthepack said:
IseWolf22 said:
Cthepack said:
hokiewolf said:
Cthepack said:
IseWolf22 said:
caryking said:
hokiewolf said:
I guess a lot of people here now like common core math because the math on these tariffs is so made up that it's impossible to believe that smart people think it works.
When you have to lie to get you point across, you aren't standing on solid policy ground. The last administration lied about the inflation reduction act. I guess we're all cool with that spending now.
Hokie, you're not this simple minded...
As every person in this Admin has said, we will need a new Tax and regulation system to allow for this to work. Please don't be so myopic...
Good thing we have competent professionals making a detailed implementation plan to transition us.
Oh no we're actually just gonna ask chatgpt what to Tariff and wave our hands that everything will work out while every economist says we're full of crap
You can not be so one dimensional to not see that the numbers are only there to start negotiations, right?
What negotiation? Trump wants to do this because he has had a dumb idea that trade between countries is a zero sum outcome. It's not!
They made up their reciprocal tariff formula that makes zero sense, and tried to pass it off as some sort of complicated calculation, which is a lie. Then on their tariff chart, they put up there an uninhabited island that has a great number of seals and penguins, who somehow are imposing tariffs on imported US goods. The tariff rate is the same for Brazil and Singapore, two countries that are on the opposite ends of the scale with respect to free trade. And a 17% tariff remains on Israel even though they reduced their tariffs to zero.
ITS MAGIC BEANS
All we are going to get is a huge consumption tax increase on goods and services, and a trade war, which has already started with China.
Now, we're celebrating "new" foreign investment in the US manufacturing sector (I say new, because most of it isn't, but hey, we lie about everything else) while penalizing actual US companies and we are high fiving each other!
We have violated every single trade agreement, even ones negotiated by the greatest negotiator in the history of the universe, and pissed off every single one of our allies.
We are penalizing Vietnam for having a trade deficit that WE created by encouraging other countries to divest manufacturing from China and move it to Vietnam.
And none of you can answer any of the why basic economic questions that I've asked over and over, hoping for an answer, but you can't. You want the entire country to be Michigan, where regulation and protectionism drove the auto industry INTO THE GROUND. So now that they've moved to better places in the US with out those regulations and protectionism, you want to penalize these companies for that. Incredible.
All this is going to do is slow the economy down and reduce competition which will drive up costs. We are turning the entire economy into one giant Jones Act.
I give Cary credit, at least he explains his reasoning, which I disagree with, but at least he has an ethos. The rest of you can't explain your way out of a paper bag so you just resort to insults and "its TDS". No its not TDS for me, I would love for this to work, but the US economy isn't the 1880s anymore.
So, I think I have a good case to be myopic.
He said last night, while taking questions, that they can be negotiated. We are by far the largest economy in the world. 50% larger than the closest economy. We have so much leverage. For other countries to grow they must trade with the largest economies, ours being the largest by miles!!!!
You keep saying there is going to be a tax meaning an increase in prices and that does not need to be the case. I keep telling you there are three pieces to a profit equation. You are focused on the wrong 2.
And you're burying your head in the sand and ignoring the many problems and contradictions in this policy.
Lutnick has been making the rounds, adamant that this is not a negotiation tactic. The tariffs are here to stay. They would have to be if Trump is planning for tariffs to replace other taxes. It can't be a negotiation tactic and meaningful revenue generator at the same time. Those are contradictory positions.
And throwing a temper tantrum is not a not a negotiation tactic. We are specifically not honoring previous negotiations, including deals that Trump himself negotiated. Trump is making the US into a lying, unreliable partner who cant be counted on.
Not at all burying my head in the sand. Just have experience in import/export, tariffs, etc... Many years working with manufacturing in China and the advantage they have with government supported industry.
This is not new.
I also am clever enough not to be blinded by Trumps approach (I personally do not like it, and full disclosure did not vote for him). You guys get trolled by him every day. He loves being dramatic. Its what he does.
I like using the leverage we have. And as a capitalist, markets will level to what the consumer is willing to pay and/or companies are willing to sell for.
There are 3 parts to a profit equation. Not one of you have mentioned the 3rd!!!!
And apparently you're not going to mention it, either. Very clever!
So we've talked about input costs being forced up by tariffs.
We've talked about prices going up to offset costs.
We've talked about profit going down instead to offset costs.
Ok, I'm on the edge of my seat. What's the 3rd (4th?) part of the profit equation?
Total cost. Prices should be market driven.
And protectionism reduces competition which generally leads to higher prices.
That's on top of raw materials, where the tariff directly raises prices even on domestic production
Again, prices should be market driven. Protectionism does not have to reduce competition in a non communist market.
Protectionism by definition lessens competition. It's more difficult to compete with the entire world than only other US companies. Less competition doesn't mean no competition, but less is a fact.
The US economy is 50% larger than the next economy. Protectionism in the world's largest economy may actually promote more competition in the US.
Yeah, no economist is going to agree with that. It's nonsensical.
The US is 25% of world GDP. At best you're shielding yourself from 75% of the market. That's not more competition.
Its is not like 75% of the global market is working together against 25%. The US is opportunistic and large enough to spawn competition.
Magical fairy dust
Just an opinion. Educated but still an opinion. I assume you know more than anyone on here about tariffs and trade imbalances. I would guess you think the US has no leverage being (by far) the largest economy. Or do you just google things and become an expert.
I was an Econ major, have kept up with the topic, and know how to think critically. The consensus and research support my position very heavily.
Trump isn't trying anything new. Just turning something proven foolish up to 11
Econ at NC State? Agree Trump is not trying anything new. And as I have said I did not vote for him.
What is your position? What experience do you have around tariffs. I am not asking about consensus or research real world experience with tariffs.
I have plenty of real world experience with tariffs!
So do I. As I think you would agree this is not new.
High tariffs on certain HTS Code, from certain countries? No, not al all…. Brands, in the US move manufacturing around escaping tariffs all the time. Is exactly why countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, and others, in that region have grown their GDP.
It wasn't too many years ago, Liberals were complaining about Nike using slave labour in China, making their shoes. I don't know what percentage it is; however, why did Vietnam come to the table so fast? Nike? My much is yes. Nike moved a good amount there, along with other Brands…
