Don't worry, nobody is sweating your know nothing posts... we're only talking about a few guys who consistently live on Planet 4Chan. The Elite status is past tense, so not much of a threat.jkpackfan said:Lol. You continuing to whine about James not banning who you want and threatening to get rid of your elite status because of it is absolutely hilarious. Oh no please don't do it!!SmaptyWolf said:You post link to yet another feeble rationalization (that you clearly don't even understand) for Trump imploding the world economy, and then when someone calls it out you bawl that they have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump.jkpackfan said:hokiewolf said:jkpackfan said:
You/we have no idea the conversations that have been had and the reasoning behind it all.
You asked us to read the article and I did. Did you read the one I sent last night?
I see a lot of lies and terrible math. So, I think one can conclude pretty easily what the conversations on reasoning are. There isn't any
Lmao you really think you're an expert on everything discussed over here. I didn't ask anything I just posted for those that might be interested. I knew you guys would say it's wrong.
You have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump. You post more **** on him in one week than you ever have on anyone from the other side.
This board has run its course for me. You guys have fun arguing with the "experts".
No... please... don't... go...
TRUMP 2024
1,304,618 Views |
15590 Replies |
Last: 4 min ago by Werewolf
Lmao not sure how the site will continue.SmaptyWolf said:Don't worry, nobody is sweating your know nothing posts... we're only talking about a few guys who consistently live on Planet 4Chan. The Elite status is past tense, so not much of a threat.jkpackfan said:Lol. You continuing to whine about James not banning who you want and threatening to get rid of your elite status because of it is absolutely hilarious. Oh no please don't do it!!SmaptyWolf said:You post link to yet another feeble rationalization (that you clearly don't even understand) for Trump imploding the world economy, and then when someone calls it out you bawl that they have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump.jkpackfan said:hokiewolf said:jkpackfan said:
You/we have no idea the conversations that have been had and the reasoning behind it all.
You asked us to read the article and I did. Did you read the one I sent last night?
I see a lot of lies and terrible math. So, I think one can conclude pretty easily what the conversations on reasoning are. There isn't any
Lmao you really think you're an expert on everything discussed over here. I didn't ask anything I just posted for those that might be interested. I knew you guys would say it's wrong.
You have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump. You post more **** on him in one week than you ever have on anyone from the other side.
This board has run its course for me. You guys have fun arguing with the "experts".
No... please... don't... go...
Looks like the site won't continue for BRad.jkpackfan said:Lmao not sure how the site will continue.SmaptyWolf said:Don't worry, nobody is sweating your know nothing posts... we're only talking about a few guys who consistently live on Planet 4Chan. The Elite status is past tense, so not much of a threat.jkpackfan said:Lol. You continuing to whine about James not banning who you want and threatening to get rid of your elite status because of it is absolutely hilarious. Oh no please don't do it!!SmaptyWolf said:You post link to yet another feeble rationalization (that you clearly don't even understand) for Trump imploding the world economy, and then when someone calls it out you bawl that they have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump.jkpackfan said:hokiewolf said:jkpackfan said:
You/we have no idea the conversations that have been had and the reasoning behind it all.
You asked us to read the article and I did. Did you read the one I sent last night?
I see a lot of lies and terrible math. So, I think one can conclude pretty easily what the conversations on reasoning are. There isn't any
Lmao you really think you're an expert on everything discussed over here. I didn't ask anything I just posted for those that might be interested. I knew you guys would say it's wrong.
You have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump. You post more **** on him in one week than you ever have on anyone from the other side.
This board has run its course for me. You guys have fun arguing with the "experts".
No... please... don't... go...
Lol very true.SmaptyWolf said:Looks like the site won't continue for BRad.jkpackfan said:Lmao not sure how the site will continue.SmaptyWolf said:Don't worry, nobody is sweating your know nothing posts... we're only talking about a few guys who consistently live on Planet 4Chan. The Elite status is past tense, so not much of a threat.jkpackfan said:Lol. You continuing to whine about James not banning who you want and threatening to get rid of your elite status because of it is absolutely hilarious. Oh no please don't do it!!SmaptyWolf said:You post link to yet another feeble rationalization (that you clearly don't even understand) for Trump imploding the world economy, and then when someone calls it out you bawl that they have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump.jkpackfan said:hokiewolf said:jkpackfan said:
You/we have no idea the conversations that have been had and the reasoning behind it all.
You asked us to read the article and I did. Did you read the one I sent last night?
I see a lot of lies and terrible math. So, I think one can conclude pretty easily what the conversations on reasoning are. There isn't any
Lmao you really think you're an expert on everything discussed over here. I didn't ask anything I just posted for those that might be interested. I knew you guys would say it's wrong.
You have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump. You post more **** on him in one week than you ever have on anyone from the other side.
This board has run its course for me. You guys have fun arguing with the "experts".
No... please... don't... go...
The board's tolerance is vast but not unlimited. That character finally found the limit.jkpackfan said:Lol very true.SmaptyWolf said:Looks like the site won't continue for BRad.jkpackfan said:Lmao not sure how the site will continue.SmaptyWolf said:Don't worry, nobody is sweating your know nothing posts... we're only talking about a few guys who consistently live on Planet 4Chan. The Elite status is past tense, so not much of a threat.jkpackfan said:Lol. You continuing to whine about James not banning who you want and threatening to get rid of your elite status because of it is absolutely hilarious. Oh no please don't do it!!SmaptyWolf said:You post link to yet another feeble rationalization (that you clearly don't even understand) for Trump imploding the world economy, and then when someone calls it out you bawl that they have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump.jkpackfan said:hokiewolf said:jkpackfan said:
You/we have no idea the conversations that have been had and the reasoning behind it all.
You asked us to read the article and I did. Did you read the one I sent last night?
I see a lot of lies and terrible math. So, I think one can conclude pretty easily what the conversations on reasoning are. There isn't any
Lmao you really think you're an expert on everything discussed over here. I didn't ask anything I just posted for those that might be interested. I knew you guys would say it's wrong.
You have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump. You post more **** on him in one week than you ever have on anyone from the other side.
This board has run its course for me. You guys have fun arguing with the "experts".
No... please... don't... go...
No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
What exactly did BRad do that got him booted? I know he's been very arrogant in spewing his so-called knowledge (BTW, sounds like someone here); however, what did he finally do?Oldsouljer said:The board's tolerance is vast but not unlimited. That character finally found the limit.jkpackfan said:Lol very true.SmaptyWolf said:Looks like the site won't continue for BRad.jkpackfan said:Lmao not sure how the site will continue.SmaptyWolf said:Don't worry, nobody is sweating your know nothing posts... we're only talking about a few guys who consistently live on Planet 4Chan. The Elite status is past tense, so not much of a threat.jkpackfan said:Lol. You continuing to whine about James not banning who you want and threatening to get rid of your elite status because of it is absolutely hilarious. Oh no please don't do it!!SmaptyWolf said:You post link to yet another feeble rationalization (that you clearly don't even understand) for Trump imploding the world economy, and then when someone calls it out you bawl that they have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump.jkpackfan said:hokiewolf said:jkpackfan said:
You/we have no idea the conversations that have been had and the reasoning behind it all.
You asked us to read the article and I did. Did you read the one I sent last night?
I see a lot of lies and terrible math. So, I think one can conclude pretty easily what the conversations on reasoning are. There isn't any
Lmao you really think you're an expert on everything discussed over here. I didn't ask anything I just posted for those that might be interested. I knew you guys would say it's wrong.
You have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump. You post more **** on him in one week than you ever have on anyone from the other side.
This board has run its course for me. You guys have fun arguing with the "experts".
No... please... don't... go...
I saw that too and literally laughed my ass off... that would have been akin to the BRad guy asking for wilmwolf to be perma banned instead of the opposite.jkpackfan said:Lol. You continuing to whine about James not banning who you want and threatening to get rid of your elite status because of it is absolutely hilarious. Oh no please don't do it!!SmaptyWolf said:You post link to yet another feeble rationalization (that you clearly don't even understand) for Trump imploding the world economy, and then when someone calls it out you bawl that they have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump.jkpackfan said:hokiewolf said:jkpackfan said:
You/we have no idea the conversations that have been had and the reasoning behind it all.
You asked us to read the article and I did. Did you read the one I sent last night?
I see a lot of lies and terrible math. So, I think one can conclude pretty easily what the conversations on reasoning are. There isn't any
Lmao you really think you're an expert on everything discussed over here. I didn't ask anything I just posted for those that might be interested. I knew you guys would say it's wrong.
You have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump. You post more **** on him in one week than you ever have on anyone from the other side.
This board has run its course for me. You guys have fun arguing with the "experts".
No... please... don't... go...
And I think he actually even believed himself when he posted it, talking about a total lack of self-awareness.
Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
And speaking of the constitutionality of these tariffs, the latest legal challenges, several of which are coming from the right, highlight the legally tenuous premise well.
From a Charles Koch-backed legal non-profit this week:
Given Trump's odd fascination with tariffs and Congress' dickless approach in recent weeks while Trump tramples the line between executive and Congressional authority to enact laws, it will almost certainly need to be the courts that step in to do what Congress won't. Hopefully they'll at least bring some sanity and consideration to the current admin's tax-levying carnival even if they don't eliminate the problem outright.
From a Charles Koch-backed legal non-profit this week:
Quote:
"His China Executive Orders show no connection between the opioid problem and the tariff he ordered much less that the tariff is 'necessary' to resolve that problem. The means of an across-the-board tariff does not fit the end of stopping an influx of opioids, and is in no sense 'necessary' to that stated purpose," according to the complaint filed Thursday in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Florida, Pensacola Division. "In fact, President Trump's own statements reveal the real reason for the China tariff, which is to reduce American trade deficits while raising federal revenue."
Given Trump's odd fascination with tariffs and Congress' dickless approach in recent weeks while Trump tramples the line between executive and Congressional authority to enact laws, it will almost certainly need to be the courts that step in to do what Congress won't. Hopefully they'll at least bring some sanity and consideration to the current admin's tax-levying carnival even if they don't eliminate the problem outright.
Combo of things. But I think that Wilm pointed out that this guy was toxic BEFORE he ever entered IPS and as such, never should have been allowed to subscribe here in the first place that got the ball rolling. I had to defend Were and Guerilla and yes, even Smapty for keeping their, ah, wisdom, confined to to the WC for the most part and only posting relevant things on the Sports boards, because some of those geniuses, having lobbied to get BRad booted, sounded like they might want to "expand the field."caryking said:What exactly did BRad do that got him booted? I know he's been very arrogant in spewing his so-called knowledge (BTW, sounds like someone here); however, what did he finally do?Oldsouljer said:The board's tolerance is vast but not unlimited. That character finally found the limit.jkpackfan said:Lol very true.SmaptyWolf said:Looks like the site won't continue for BRad.jkpackfan said:Lmao not sure how the site will continue.SmaptyWolf said:Don't worry, nobody is sweating your know nothing posts... we're only talking about a few guys who consistently live on Planet 4Chan. The Elite status is past tense, so not much of a threat.jkpackfan said:Lol. You continuing to whine about James not banning who you want and threatening to get rid of your elite status because of it is absolutely hilarious. Oh no please don't do it!!SmaptyWolf said:You post link to yet another feeble rationalization (that you clearly don't even understand) for Trump imploding the world economy, and then when someone calls it out you bawl that they have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump.jkpackfan said:hokiewolf said:jkpackfan said:
You/we have no idea the conversations that have been had and the reasoning behind it all.
You asked us to read the article and I did. Did you read the one I sent last night?
I see a lot of lies and terrible math. So, I think one can conclude pretty easily what the conversations on reasoning are. There isn't any
Lmao you really think you're an expert on everything discussed over here. I didn't ask anything I just posted for those that might be interested. I knew you guys would say it's wrong.
You have a very unhealthy infatuation with all things Trump. You post more **** on him in one week than you ever have on anyone from the other side.
This board has run its course for me. You guys have fun arguing with the "experts".
No... please... don't... go...
you need to retool the factory, probably get new equipment, which almost all of that is made in Europe, Japan, or South Korea. hire people, which by the way there are currently thousands of manufacturing jobs that are currently not being filled, train them, and then you can start manufacturing.Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
I've been part of that process for three plywood plants and a new line that made glass woven fiber. The glass woven fiber plant was brand new and from land purchase to first manufacturing was a 3 year process.
The replacement of a plywood lathe, which skins the logs into veneers took 6 months design, 1 year to make the lathe and ship it from Japan, 8 months of enabling projects to get ready to install, and then 6 weeks of 3 shifts 24 hours a day to install. Then, it took another 2 weeks of fine tuning and live training before they produced on the line.
So PE guy, you probably did it, and I congratulate you, but I'm sure it was something that was easily done because that capacity already existed. For 99% of manufacturing, it doesn't work that way.
I think what we are seeing in the US economy right now is DEFLATION. And that is a great thing. Deflation, of course, is the opposite of inflation. Inflation (when value of the currency falls and prices rise) is what kills the middle class and working people.
We are seeing home prices falling in many areas of the nation, the price of gasoline falling, etc. And job growth is strong. That means people are making money, and the cost of living is going down. That's positive economically for the "99%" of middle and working class people.
And stock prices would also fall due to deflation.
I don't give a rip about the mega corporations that make up the Dow Jones making profits. Big corporations make profits by ripping off average people and overcharging for goods and services and underpaying employees. If these companies will make less profit due to tariffs, good. That is a benefit to average people, indicating they are paying less for goods and services and getting better wages.
We are seeing home prices falling in many areas of the nation, the price of gasoline falling, etc. And job growth is strong. That means people are making money, and the cost of living is going down. That's positive economically for the "99%" of middle and working class people.
And stock prices would also fall due to deflation.
I don't give a rip about the mega corporations that make up the Dow Jones making profits. Big corporations make profits by ripping off average people and overcharging for goods and services and underpaying employees. If these companies will make less profit due to tariffs, good. That is a benefit to average people, indicating they are paying less for goods and services and getting better wages.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
hokiewolf said:you need to retool the factory, probably get new equipment, which almost all of that is made in Europe, Japan, or South Korea. hire people, which by the way there are currently thousands of manufacturing jobs that are currently not being filled, train them, and then you can start manufacturing.Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
I've been part of that process for three plywood plants and a new line that made glass woven fiber. The glass woven fiber plant was brand new and from land purchase to first manufacturing was a 3 year process.
The replacement of a plywood lathe, which skins the logs into veneers took 6 months design, 1 year to make the lathe and ship it from Japan, 8 months of enabling projects to get ready to install, and then 6 weeks of 3 shifts 24 hours a day to install. Then, it took another 2 weeks of fine tuning and live training before they produced on the line.
So PE guy, you probably did it, and I congratulate you, but I'm sure it was something that was easily done because that capacity already existed. For 99% of manufacturing, it doesn't work that way.
Hokie, it all depends on what's being done. The tooling part, I agree with you. That typically is manufacturing for the raw parts. Depending on the product, assembly is something that can be done quickly.
The courage of Trump to undertake what was req'd to free America from the steady and sure decline that has been underway for 50 years is huge. This is why #devolution was req'd and what we experienced from Jan 2021-Jan 20 2025. Trump now has the support to sustain the 918 month transition period. Stay the course, America.
The CCP will remain the long-term existential threat and stop the wealth transfer.
The CCP will remain the long-term existential threat and stop the wealth transfer.
Saturday Wrap Up:
— Promethean Action (@PrometheanActn) April 5, 2025
Donald Trump killed globalism on Wednesday. The globalists promptly launched Project Fear versus Trump's project, Build, Baby, Build. Their stocks tumbled and they howled. But Trump is on to something no mechanical robot like globalist can understand: love of… pic.twitter.com/Q6Lm4qoW3z
That depends on how you're positioned to take advantage of the environment you're in or about to be in. But I think you may be right. I'm sitting in cash which could hurt me if it's stagflation, but history says that great deflationary cycles are often preceded by sharp inflation bursts, and that might just be where we are right now. The reason deflation ISN'T a great thing is if you're saddled with debt, you're in a world of hurt and let's face it, at the personal, corporate and sovereign levels, we're living on Planet Debt.GuerrillaPack said:
I think what we are seeing in the US economy right now is DEFLATION. And that is a great thing. Deflation, of course, is the opposite of inflation. Inflation (when value of the currency falls and prices rise) is what kills the middle class and working people.
We are seeing home prices falling in many areas of the nation, the price of gasoline falling, etc. And job growth is strong. That means people are making money, and the cost of living is going down. That's positive economically for the "99%" of middle and working class people.
And stock prices would also fall due to deflation.
I don't give a rip about the mega corporations that make up the Dow Jones making profits. Big corporations make profits by ripping off average people and overcharging for goods and services and underpaying employees. If these companies will make less profit due to tariffs, good. That is a benefit to average people, indicating they are paying less for goods and services and getting better wages.
"President Trump said, 'Our country has been looted, pillaged, raped, and plundered by nations near and far, both friend and foe alike.'
After marinating in that concept in the wee hours, I realized something:
Globalism is not an ideology. It's not actually about "rules-based international order," borderless utopias, or saving the planet. That's the fig leaf. (Just look how fast they sprang to defend borders when Trump mentioned annexing Canada and Greenland.)
Trump gets it, and now I do, too.
'Globalism' is much simpler than we thoughtand even uglier, if that's possible.
It's all about money. It's a global grift.
Its entire goal is to preserve a rigged trade system, where the United States charges no tariffs, but every other country can slap tariffs, VAT taxes, currency manipulation, and non-tariff barriers on American goods.
That's it. That's the whole scam.
It's not about international harmony.
It's about keeping the U.S. market wide open (the "open borders") while everyone else plants automated toll booths all along their borders.
Do see how that lopsided, asymmetric dynamic no tariffs on US foreign trade but unlimited barriers to US goods creates unlimited possibility for profit by insider lites who understand how to game the scam?
It's all designed for parasitic globalists to leech blood from ailing American taxpayer hosts and swank around Europe on our dime.
To disguise the grift, they put on a show. The show is called "globalism."
The show's plot consists of very expensive leftwing demands that always deplore an imminent crisis and demand billions of dollars. See, e.g., climate change.
And America always foots the bill. America's working class, that is.
The suckers.
So far, we've learned there are (at least) two different ways the swarms of globalist mosquitos have been parasitically draining our essence.
One way was through NGOs. Trump cut that snakey head off first, and we've been watching the fallout with terrific enthusiasm. Most recently, Trump shuttered the ridiculous "Institute for Peace," whose peaceful accountants frantically deleted their databases while DOGE was outside on the sidewalk.
(Fortunately, DOGE recovered the data.)
The IFP's databases showed shocking theft of public money to pay for elite luxuries, many of them foreigners, all laundered through the "institute's" quasi-independence.
The second vector of parasitic infection is this lopsided tariff situation.
Trump recognized that informed elites are enriching themselves while the rest of us become increasingly anemic. They were this close to killing the host.
Trump's made it clear he means to turn it all around.
"I don't blame these other countries at all for this calamity. I blame former presidents and past leaders who weren't doing their job," he said.
It was our only point of disagreement. Unlike President Trump, I do blame other countries as well as former presidents and past leaders who sold us out.
Trump was just saying, you can't blame the hustler if you let them steal from you."
Jeff Childers
After marinating in that concept in the wee hours, I realized something:
Globalism is not an ideology. It's not actually about "rules-based international order," borderless utopias, or saving the planet. That's the fig leaf. (Just look how fast they sprang to defend borders when Trump mentioned annexing Canada and Greenland.)
Trump gets it, and now I do, too.
'Globalism' is much simpler than we thoughtand even uglier, if that's possible.
It's all about money. It's a global grift.
Its entire goal is to preserve a rigged trade system, where the United States charges no tariffs, but every other country can slap tariffs, VAT taxes, currency manipulation, and non-tariff barriers on American goods.
That's it. That's the whole scam.
It's not about international harmony.
It's about keeping the U.S. market wide open (the "open borders") while everyone else plants automated toll booths all along their borders.
Do see how that lopsided, asymmetric dynamic no tariffs on US foreign trade but unlimited barriers to US goods creates unlimited possibility for profit by insider lites who understand how to game the scam?
It's all designed for parasitic globalists to leech blood from ailing American taxpayer hosts and swank around Europe on our dime.
To disguise the grift, they put on a show. The show is called "globalism."
The show's plot consists of very expensive leftwing demands that always deplore an imminent crisis and demand billions of dollars. See, e.g., climate change.
And America always foots the bill. America's working class, that is.
The suckers.
So far, we've learned there are (at least) two different ways the swarms of globalist mosquitos have been parasitically draining our essence.
One way was through NGOs. Trump cut that snakey head off first, and we've been watching the fallout with terrific enthusiasm. Most recently, Trump shuttered the ridiculous "Institute for Peace," whose peaceful accountants frantically deleted their databases while DOGE was outside on the sidewalk.
(Fortunately, DOGE recovered the data.)
The IFP's databases showed shocking theft of public money to pay for elite luxuries, many of them foreigners, all laundered through the "institute's" quasi-independence.
The second vector of parasitic infection is this lopsided tariff situation.
Trump recognized that informed elites are enriching themselves while the rest of us become increasingly anemic. They were this close to killing the host.
Trump's made it clear he means to turn it all around.
"I don't blame these other countries at all for this calamity. I blame former presidents and past leaders who weren't doing their job," he said.
It was our only point of disagreement. Unlike President Trump, I do blame other countries as well as former presidents and past leaders who sold us out.
Trump was just saying, you can't blame the hustler if you let them steal from you."
Jeff Childers
Cthepack said:Econ at NC State? Agree Trump is not trying anything new. And as I have said I did not vote for him.IseWolf22 said:Cthepack said:Just an opinion. Educated but still an opinion. I assume you know more than anyone on here about tariffs and trade imbalances. I would guess you think the US has no leverage being (by far) the largest economy. Or do you just google things and become an expert.IseWolf22 said:Cthepack said:Its is not like 75% of the global market is working together against 25%. The US is opportunistic and large enough to spawn competition.IseWolf22 said:Cthepack said:The US economy is 50% larger than the next economy. Protectionism in the world's largest economy may actually promote more competition in the US.IseWolf22 said:Cthepack said:Again, prices should be market driven. Protectionism does not have to reduce competition in a non communist market.IseWolf22 said:Cthepack said:Total cost. Prices should be market driven.SmaptyWolf said:And apparently you're not going to mention it, either. Very clever!Cthepack said:Not at all burying my head in the sand. Just have experience in import/export, tariffs, etc... Many years working with manufacturing in China and the advantage they have with government supported industry.IseWolf22 said:Cthepack said:He said last night, while taking questions, that they can be negotiated. We are by far the largest economy in the world. 50% larger than the closest economy. We have so much leverage. For other countries to grow they must trade with the largest economies, ours being the largest by miles!!!!hokiewolf said:What negotiation? Trump wants to do this because he has had a dumb idea that trade between countries is a zero sum outcome. It's not!Cthepack said:You can not be so one dimensional to not see that the numbers are only there to start negotiations, right?IseWolf22 said:caryking said:Hokie, you're not this simple minded...hokiewolf said:
I guess a lot of people here now like common core math because the math on these tariffs is so made up that it's impossible to believe that smart people think it works.
When you have to lie to get you point across, you aren't standing on solid policy ground. The last administration lied about the inflation reduction act. I guess we're all cool with that spending now.
As every person in this Admin has said, we will need a new Tax and regulation system to allow for this to work. Please don't be so myopic...
Good thing we have competent professionals making a detailed implementation plan to transition us.
Oh no we're actually just gonna ask chatgpt what to Tariff and wave our hands that everything will work out while every economist says we're full of crap
They made up their reciprocal tariff formula that makes zero sense, and tried to pass it off as some sort of complicated calculation, which is a lie. Then on their tariff chart, they put up there an uninhabited island that has a great number of seals and penguins, who somehow are imposing tariffs on imported US goods. The tariff rate is the same for Brazil and Singapore, two countries that are on the opposite ends of the scale with respect to free trade. And a 17% tariff remains on Israel even though they reduced their tariffs to zero.
ITS MAGIC BEANS
All we are going to get is a huge consumption tax increase on goods and services, and a trade war, which has already started with China.
Now, we're celebrating "new" foreign investment in the US manufacturing sector (I say new, because most of it isn't, but hey, we lie about everything else) while penalizing actual US companies and we are high fiving each other!
We have violated every single trade agreement, even ones negotiated by the greatest negotiator in the history of the universe, and pissed off every single one of our allies.
We are penalizing Vietnam for having a trade deficit that WE created by encouraging other countries to divest manufacturing from China and move it to Vietnam.
And none of you can answer any of the why basic economic questions that I've asked over and over, hoping for an answer, but you can't. You want the entire country to be Michigan, where regulation and protectionism drove the auto industry INTO THE GROUND. So now that they've moved to better places in the US with out those regulations and protectionism, you want to penalize these companies for that. Incredible.
All this is going to do is slow the economy down and reduce competition which will drive up costs. We are turning the entire economy into one giant Jones Act.
I give Cary credit, at least he explains his reasoning, which I disagree with, but at least he has an ethos. The rest of you can't explain your way out of a paper bag so you just resort to insults and "its TDS". No its not TDS for me, I would love for this to work, but the US economy isn't the 1880s anymore.
So, I think I have a good case to be myopic.
You keep saying there is going to be a tax meaning an increase in prices and that does not need to be the case. I keep telling you there are three pieces to a profit equation. You are focused on the wrong 2.
And you're burying your head in the sand and ignoring the many problems and contradictions in this policy.
Lutnick has been making the rounds, adamant that this is not a negotiation tactic. The tariffs are here to stay. They would have to be if Trump is planning for tariffs to replace other taxes. It can't be a negotiation tactic and meaningful revenue generator at the same time. Those are contradictory positions.
And throwing a temper tantrum is not a not a negotiation tactic. We are specifically not honoring previous negotiations, including deals that Trump himself negotiated. Trump is making the US into a lying, unreliable partner who cant be counted on.
This is not new.
I also am clever enough not to be blinded by Trumps approach (I personally do not like it, and full disclosure did not vote for him). You guys get trolled by him every day. He loves being dramatic. Its what he does.
I like using the leverage we have. And as a capitalist, markets will level to what the consumer is willing to pay and/or companies are willing to sell for.
There are 3 parts to a profit equation. Not one of you have mentioned the 3rd!!!!
So we've talked about input costs being forced up by tariffs.
We've talked about prices going up to offset costs.
We've talked about profit going down instead to offset costs.
Ok, I'm on the edge of my seat. What's the 3rd (4th?) part of the profit equation?
And protectionism reduces competition which generally leads to higher prices.
That's on top of raw materials, where the tariff directly raises prices even on domestic production
Protectionism by definition lessens competition. It's more difficult to compete with the entire world than only other US companies. Less competition doesn't mean no competition, but less is a fact.
Yeah, no economist is going to agree with that. It's nonsensical.
The US is 25% of world GDP. At best you're shielding yourself from 75% of the market. That's not more competition.
Magical fairy dust
I was an Econ major, have kept up with the topic, and know how to think critically. The consensus and research support my position very heavily.
Trump isn't trying anything new. Just turning something proven foolish up to 11
What is your position? What experience do you have around tariffs. I am not asking about consensus or research real world experience with tariffs.
My position is that these tariffs are going to massively slow global trade, and will make the US, and the world poorer, more isolated, and in further conflict.
We will try to reshore some industries, which will pull workers away from more productive industries where we have a greater competitive advantage, lowering GDP. Highly capital intensive industries will generally be resistant, unsure if this new tariff regimen will last more than a couple years. We will all bear much higher costs in the interim.
Our manufacturing will be less competitive because we're jacking up the cost of raw material imports and labor at the same time. Exports will fall significantly.
Tariffs on potash and food imports will cause grocery bills to skyrocket. Our agricultural industry will suffer as well. This will put upward pressure on inflation, combined with the increased deficit spending that is being pushed in Congress right now. Rates will stay elevated and we will really be discussing the spiraling debt crisis in 3-5 years
Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
I hadn't seen the uncertainty quantified but it's both telling and unsurprising given the market reactions and consumer confidence plummeting.
Also unsurprising is that Trump is treating this very much like a small business owner running his own little fiefdom of a dozen staff and some pocket inventors that you can dictate to, rather than the head of a massive multinational corporation where you need the type of buy-in that comes from clear, cogent strategy communication in a time of drastic change or crisis.
It's the exact same thing we saw during COVID and ultimately what got him jettisoned from office the first time around. He simply doesn't know how to communicate from the top and he loses the constituency.
Also unsurprising is that Trump is treating this very much like a small business owner running his own little fiefdom of a dozen staff and some pocket inventors that you can dictate to, rather than the head of a massive multinational corporation where you need the type of buy-in that comes from clear, cogent strategy communication in a time of drastic change or crisis.
It's the exact same thing we saw during COVID and ultimately what got him jettisoned from office the first time around. He simply doesn't know how to communicate from the top and he loses the constituency.
Everyone in the world needs as much certainty to make massive capital investments. Not an Econ major but I know I am not going to buy a house or a new car if my company may go out of business.IseWolf22 said:Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
To add to the discussion less than 20% of US companies export product. Less than 20% import product. Take away even 70% of our GDP and we are still the world's largest economy.
I asked did you get your Econ degree from NC State?
Only to regain them. Of course, if Dems had actually followed the rules, allowed an open primary without the shenanigans at the beginning, and run a credible candidate other than Biden/Harris, who knows how everything might have went down?Civilized said:
I hadn't seen the uncertainty quantified but it's both telling and unsurprising given the market reactions and consumer confidence plummeting.
Also unsurprising is that Trump is treating this very much like a small business owner running his own little fiefdom of a dozen staff and some pocket inventors that you can dictate to, rather than the head of a massive multinational corporation where you need the type of buy-in that comes from clear, cogent strategy communication in a time of drastic change or crisis.
It's the exact same thing we saw during COVID and ultimately what got him jettisoned from office the first time around. He simply doesn't know how to communicate from the top and he loses the constituency.
Cthepack said:Everyone in the world needs as much certainty to make massive capital investments. Not an Econ major but I know I am not going to buy a house or a new car if my company may go out of business.IseWolf22 said:Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
To add to the discussion less than 20% of US companies export product. Less than 20% import product. Take away even 70% of our GDP and we are still the world's largest economy.
I asked did you get your Econ degree from NC State?
What a massively understated and obtuse way to gauge economic impact of imports/exports.
The question isn't how many companies directly import or export goods; it's how many companies rely on other companies that do import or export for their sales, distribution, or manufacturing chains, and how many Americans in turn buy products produced or sold by an international supply/distribution/manufacturing chain.
And why does it matter where ISE got his Econ degree from? It probably wasn't DeVry but even if it was, who cares?
Both parties suck at the moment with the exception of a very small group of representatives who seem to be sane.
those are all service industry jobs that will be sacrificed for a lesser amount and lower paying manufacturing jobs.Civilized said:Cthepack said:Everyone in the world needs as much certainty to make massive capital investments. Not an Econ major but I know I am not going to buy a house or a new car if my company may go out of business.IseWolf22 said:Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
To add to the discussion less than 20% of US companies export product. Less than 20% import product. Take away even 70% of our GDP and we are still the world's largest economy.
I asked did you get your Econ degree from NC State?
What a massively understated and obtuse way to gauge economic impact of imports/exports.
The question isn't how many companies directly import or export goods; it's how many companies rely on other companies that do import or export for their sales, distribution, or manufacturing chains, and how many Americans in turn buy products produced or sold by an international supply/distribution/manufacturing chain.
And why does it matter where ISE got his Econ degree from? It probably wasn't DeVry but even if it was, who cares?
Obtuse? It is all fact! As I said I added it to the discussion. But as everyone else in these threads, you must attach!!Civilized said:Cthepack said:Everyone in the world needs as much certainty to make massive capital investments. Not an Econ major but I know I am not going to buy a house or a new car if my company may go out of business.IseWolf22 said:Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
To add to the discussion less than 20% of US companies export product. Less than 20% import product. Take away even 70% of our GDP and we are still the world's largest economy.
I asked did you get your Econ degree from NC State?
What a massively understated and obtuse way to gauge economic impact of imports/exports.
The question isn't how many companies directly import or export goods; it's how many companies rely on other companies that do import or export for their sales, distribution, or manufacturing chains, and how many Americans in turn buy products produced or sold by an international supply/distribution/manufacturing chain.
And why does it matter where ISE got his Econ degree from? It probably wasn't DeVry but even if it was, who cares?
I did not ask where ISE got his degree. I asked did he get it from NC State. Different question.
Hokie, I don't truly pay attention to these service industry jobs as close as you do. What serivice related jobs will go away if manufacturing comes back. In other words, what service related jobs are in jeopardy with more manufacturing jobs…hokiewolf said:those are all service industry jobs that will be sacrificed for a lesser amount and lower paying manufacturing jobs.Civilized said:Cthepack said:Everyone in the world needs as much certainty to make massive capital investments. Not an Econ major but I know I am not going to buy a house or a new car if my company may go out of business.IseWolf22 said:Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
To add to the discussion less than 20% of US companies export product. Less than 20% import product. Take away even 70% of our GDP and we are still the world's largest economy.
I asked did you get your Econ degree from NC State?
What a massively understated and obtuse way to gauge economic impact of imports/exports.
The question isn't how many companies directly import or export goods; it's how many companies rely on other companies that do import or export for their sales, distribution, or manufacturing chains, and how many Americans in turn buy products produced or sold by an international supply/distribution/manufacturing chain.
And why does it matter where ISE got his Econ degree from? It probably wasn't DeVry but even if it was, who cares?
Cthepack said:Obtuse? It is all fact! As I said I added it to the discussion. But as everyone else in these threads, you must attach!!Civilized said:Cthepack said:Everyone in the world needs as much certainty to make massive capital investments. Not an Econ major but I know I am not going to buy a house or a new car if my company may go out of business.IseWolf22 said:Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
To add to the discussion less than 20% of US companies export product. Less than 20% import product. Take away even 70% of our GDP and we are still the world's largest economy.
I asked did you get your Econ degree from NC State?
What a massively understated and obtuse way to gauge economic impact of imports/exports.
The question isn't how many companies directly import or export goods; it's how many companies rely on other companies that do import or export for their sales, distribution, or manufacturing chains, and how many Americans in turn buy products produced or sold by an international supply/distribution/manufacturing chain.
And why does it matter where ISE got his Econ degree from? It probably wasn't DeVry but even if it was, who cares?
I did not ask where ISE got his degree. I asked did he get it from NC State. Different question.
Both my degrees are from NC State
Industrial Engineering and Economics
The smartest woman I know (my wife) also got her Econ degree at NC State.IseWolf22 said:Cthepack said:Obtuse? It is all fact! As I said I added it to the discussion. But as everyone else in these threads, you must attach!!Civilized said:Cthepack said:Everyone in the world needs as much certainty to make massive capital investments. Not an Econ major but I know I am not going to buy a house or a new car if my company may go out of business.IseWolf22 said:Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
To add to the discussion less than 20% of US companies export product. Less than 20% import product. Take away even 70% of our GDP and we are still the world's largest economy.
I asked did you get your Econ degree from NC State?
What a massively understated and obtuse way to gauge economic impact of imports/exports.
The question isn't how many companies directly import or export goods; it's how many companies rely on other companies that do import or export for their sales, distribution, or manufacturing chains, and how many Americans in turn buy products produced or sold by an international supply/distribution/manufacturing chain.
And why does it matter where ISE got his Econ degree from? It probably wasn't DeVry but even if it was, who cares?
I did not ask where ISE got his degree. I asked did he get it from NC State. Different question.
Both my degrees are from NC State
Industrial Engineering and Economics
any job that deals with importing and exporting of goods and materials.caryking said:Hokie, I don't truly pay attention to these service industry jobs as close as you do. What serivice related jobs will go away if manufacturing comes back. In other words, what service related jobs are in jeopardy with more manufacturing jobs…hokiewolf said:those are all service industry jobs that will be sacrificed for a lesser amount and lower paying manufacturing jobs.Civilized said:Cthepack said:Everyone in the world needs as much certainty to make massive capital investments. Not an Econ major but I know I am not going to buy a house or a new car if my company may go out of business.IseWolf22 said:Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
To add to the discussion less than 20% of US companies export product. Less than 20% import product. Take away even 70% of our GDP and we are still the world's largest economy.
I asked did you get your Econ degree from NC State?
What a massively understated and obtuse way to gauge economic impact of imports/exports.
The question isn't how many companies directly import or export goods; it's how many companies rely on other companies that do import or export for their sales, distribution, or manufacturing chains, and how many Americans in turn buy products produced or sold by an international supply/distribution/manufacturing chain.
And why does it matter where ISE got his Econ degree from? It probably wasn't DeVry but even if it was, who cares?
Such as…hokiewolf said:any job that deals with importing and exporting of goods and materials.caryking said:Hokie, I don't truly pay attention to these service industry jobs as close as you do. What serivice related jobs will go away if manufacturing comes back. In other words, what service related jobs are in jeopardy with more manufacturing jobs…hokiewolf said:those are all service industry jobs that will be sacrificed for a lesser amount and lower paying manufacturing jobs.Civilized said:Cthepack said:Everyone in the world needs as much certainty to make massive capital investments. Not an Econ major but I know I am not going to buy a house or a new car if my company may go out of business.IseWolf22 said:Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
To add to the discussion less than 20% of US companies export product. Less than 20% import product. Take away even 70% of our GDP and we are still the world's largest economy.
I asked did you get your Econ degree from NC State?
What a massively understated and obtuse way to gauge economic impact of imports/exports.
The question isn't how many companies directly import or export goods; it's how many companies rely on other companies that do import or export for their sales, distribution, or manufacturing chains, and how many Americans in turn buy products produced or sold by an international supply/distribution/manufacturing chain.
And why does it matter where ISE got his Econ degree from? It probably wasn't DeVry but even if it was, who cares?
brokers, truck drivers, material handlers, warehouse staff, etc. any job in the supply chain is a service job.caryking said:Such as…hokiewolf said:any job that deals with importing and exporting of goods and materials.caryking said:Hokie, I don't truly pay attention to these service industry jobs as close as you do. What serivice related jobs will go away if manufacturing comes back. In other words, what service related jobs are in jeopardy with more manufacturing jobs…hokiewolf said:those are all service industry jobs that will be sacrificed for a lesser amount and lower paying manufacturing jobs.Civilized said:Cthepack said:Everyone in the world needs as much certainty to make massive capital investments. Not an Econ major but I know I am not going to buy a house or a new car if my company may go out of business.IseWolf22 said:Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
To add to the discussion less than 20% of US companies export product. Less than 20% import product. Take away even 70% of our GDP and we are still the world's largest economy.
I asked did you get your Econ degree from NC State?
What a massively understated and obtuse way to gauge economic impact of imports/exports.
The question isn't how many companies directly import or export goods; it's how many companies rely on other companies that do import or export for their sales, distribution, or manufacturing chains, and how many Americans in turn buy products produced or sold by an international supply/distribution/manufacturing chain.
And why does it matter where ISE got his Econ degree from? It probably wasn't DeVry but even if it was, who cares?
See above…hokiewolf said:brokers - okcaryking said:Such as…hokiewolf said:any job that deals with importing and exporting of goods and materials.caryking said:Hokie, I don't truly pay attention to these service industry jobs as close as you do. What serivice related jobs will go away if manufacturing comes back. In other words, what service related jobs are in jeopardy with more manufacturing jobs…hokiewolf said:those are all service industry jobs that will be sacrificed for a lesser amount and lower paying manufacturing jobs.Civilized said:Cthepack said:Everyone in the world needs as much certainty to make massive capital investments. Not an Econ major but I know I am not going to buy a house or a new car if my company may go out of business.IseWolf22 said:Civilized said:Cthepack said:No need to build factories. Lots of factory space exists. Supply chain easy. When you need to do it amazingly it can be done.hokiewolf said:you can change a supply chain and build a factory in 6 months? Sure.Cthepack said:I should read it more closely. You can move things much faster, if you want to.caryking said:I think it's clear that Trump is saying that it will take two years…Cthepack said:Yah, not true. I have done it in 6 months.hokiewolf said:
HuhThis is such a massive problem with Trump's tariffs - US companies can't just magically move production here. It takes *years* to build, hire, etc.
— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 5, 2025
By the time that happens, the next president will likely remove the tariffs... so why would any company spend that kind of money? https://t.co/v6gjZ0l4Md
ETA: This is not hypothetical, I have done it.
The question isn't whether you or anyone else in niche, one-off or small-volume applications has done it.
The question is whether large numbers of American companies across industries will simultaneously do it in this environment of self-inflicted and significant economic chaos.
There's not a small amount of irony in your calculus to on-shore penciling because of economic stability that you were afforded then that companies now do not have the luxury of.
The huge problem right now is as much the opaqueness and uncertainty as it is the tariffs themselves. No one knows what the true purpose of the tariffs are, how long they'll be in place, whether they'll survive court challenges, or even if they remain in place for the duration of Trump's tenure, whether they'll persist into the next administration.
It's that incredible and unnecessary uncertainty that's ultimately most harmful; it's one thing to invest massive CapEx simply in the face of a slow or disadvantageous economic climate or recent company performance; quite another to do so when the foundation for that massive investment is built on sand that shifts with every impulsive or intrusive thought that enters the current President's head (and with every Loomer-esque "advisor" that wanders into his office and catches his ear).
Business needs certainty to be willing to make massive capital investments. Even beyond the terrible policy, the bungled rollout and subsequent mixed messages on the goal and permanence of the tariffs has trashed confidence of investors and the business class. The economic Uncertainty index is higher than COVID. That is bad
To add to the discussion less than 20% of US companies export product. Less than 20% import product. Take away even 70% of our GDP and we are still the world's largest economy.
I asked did you get your Econ degree from NC State?
What a massively understated and obtuse way to gauge economic impact of imports/exports.
The question isn't how many companies directly import or export goods; it's how many companies rely on other companies that do import or export for their sales, distribution, or manufacturing chains, and how many Americans in turn buy products produced or sold by an international supply/distribution/manufacturing chain.
And why does it matter where ISE got his Econ degree from? It probably wasn't DeVry but even if it was, who cares?
truck drivers - stuff still needs to move
material handlers - no change
warehouse staff - still need warehouses
etc. - don't know any etc…
any job in the supply chain - no changes
While Trump (or any President) gets the blame for what happens on their watch, it's important to remember that we're coming up on the centennial of the New Deal and a host of US Government disastrous involvements in things that are none of its constitutional business. This comment by Barrons back in 1954 is classic and incredibly predictive…..
"The Housing Act of 1954 will turn out to be one of the worst pieces of inflationary legislation ever placed on the statute-books. For the first time, non- veterans will be able to buy a $10,000 house with a down payment of $500, the Federal Housing Administration insuring a 30-year mortgage of $9,500 on such a house. This is a triumph of the Nation's Home Builder's Association and a defeat of commonsense. Unfortunately, there is no reason to hope that mortgage money lenders will resist the practical consequences of this legislative monstrosity. Throughout the first half of 1954, most of them have been eager to make VA mortgage loans to home-buyers at no down payment at all."
"The Housing Act of 1954 will turn out to be one of the worst pieces of inflationary legislation ever placed on the statute-books. For the first time, non- veterans will be able to buy a $10,000 house with a down payment of $500, the Federal Housing Administration insuring a 30-year mortgage of $9,500 on such a house. This is a triumph of the Nation's Home Builder's Association and a defeat of commonsense. Unfortunately, there is no reason to hope that mortgage money lenders will resist the practical consequences of this legislative monstrosity. Throughout the first half of 1954, most of them have been eager to make VA mortgage loans to home-buyers at no down payment at all."
And some say we have a free-market economy…. Sorry, that's not free-market.Oldsouljer said:
While Trump (or any President) gets the blame for what happens on their watch, it's important to remember that we're coming up on the centennial of the New Deal and a host of US Government disastrous involvements in things that are none of its constitutional business. This comment by Barrons back in 1954 is classic and incredibly predictive…..
"The Housing Act of 1954 will turn out to be one of the worst pieces of inflationary legislation ever placed on the statute-books. For the first time, non- veterans will be able to buy a $10,000 house with a down payment of $500, the Federal Housing Administration insuring a 30-year mortgage of $9,500 on such a house. This is a triumph of the Nation's Home Builder's Association and a defeat of commonsense. Unfortunately, there is no reason to hope that mortgage money lenders will resist the practical consequences of this legislative monstrosity. Throughout the first half of 1954, most of them have been eager to make VA mortgage loans to home-buyers at no down payment at all."
Featured Stories
See All
14:24
1h ago
43
IPS IN 5: Camp Talk And More Baseball Portal Discussion
by James Henderson
CAMP SERIES: The Camp Breakdown
by James Henderson
IPS INTEL: June 6 - 8 Official Visitors
by P.J. Williams
INSIDE THE WATCHLIST: Thoughts On 2026 Prospects
by P.J. Williams
IPS TAKE: Ven-Allen Lubin's Impact on NC State Basketball
by Jake McSwain