TRUMP 2024

2,010,609 Views | 17730 Replies | Last: 22 min ago by Werewolf
caryking
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hokiewolf said:

caryking said:

hokiewolf said:

Do you think there are more blue collar workers in manufacturing or construction?
Hokie, I'm not sure why you are asking that question. Who cares? Just go look at a UAW worker and tell me what kind of person you see…
I see someone who has been a protected class for years at the detriment to the industry he works in. Not his fault, he probably was bamboozled into thinking he'd get a great pension.

My point being, construction(service jobs) are more highly paid and more highly entrepreneurial (many small businesses make up the construction industry)than large manufacturing jobs. We are now putting all of that in jeopardy for a modest gain in manufacturing in the US.

Seems like a great trade off, considering that I do not think the nostalgia of the autoworkers of the 50s and 60s will ever come back. But guess what, that's ok because those jobs have been replaced in other areas of the US.

Instead of trying to figure out what the new economy should be in the rust belt, we go to nostalgia well that dried up a long time ago. Same goes for the steel industry. And we risk the entire economy to do it. Seems like checkers.
Hokie, no offense but you just asked a question (above) about making capital investments when a company isn't profitable. I think that question makes me question your business acumen.

All this other diatribe is just so unimportant. Learn a little business knowledge and less discuss…
Cthepack
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SmaptyWolf said:

Cthepack said:

SmaptyWolf said:

Cthepack said:

SmaptyWolf said:

Cthepack said:

IseWolf22 said:

Cthepack said:

SmaptyWolf said:

Cthepack said:

IseWolf22 said:

Cthepack said:

hokiewolf said:

Cthepack said:

IseWolf22 said:

caryking said:

hokiewolf said:

I guess a lot of people here now like common core math because the math on these tariffs is so made up that it's impossible to believe that smart people think it works.

When you have to lie to get you point across, you aren't standing on solid policy ground. The last administration lied about the inflation reduction act. I guess we're all cool with that spending now.
Hokie, you're not this simple minded...

As every person in this Admin has said, we will need a new Tax and regulation system to allow for this to work. Please don't be so myopic...

Good thing we have competent professionals making a detailed implementation plan to transition us.

Oh no we're actually just gonna ask chatgpt what to Tariff and wave our hands that everything will work out while every economist says we're full of crap
You can not be so one dimensional to not see that the numbers are only there to start negotiations, right?
What negotiation? Trump wants to do this because he has had a dumb idea that trade between countries is a zero sum outcome. It's not!

They made up their reciprocal tariff formula that makes zero sense, and tried to pass it off as some sort of complicated calculation, which is a lie. Then on their tariff chart, they put up there an uninhabited island that has a great number of seals and penguins, who somehow are imposing tariffs on imported US goods. The tariff rate is the same for Brazil and Singapore, two countries that are on the opposite ends of the scale with respect to free trade. And a 17% tariff remains on Israel even though they reduced their tariffs to zero.

ITS MAGIC BEANS

All we are going to get is a huge consumption tax increase on goods and services, and a trade war, which has already started with China.

Now, we're celebrating "new" foreign investment in the US manufacturing sector (I say new, because most of it isn't, but hey, we lie about everything else) while penalizing actual US companies and we are high fiving each other!

We have violated every single trade agreement, even ones negotiated by the greatest negotiator in the history of the universe, and pissed off every single one of our allies.

We are penalizing Vietnam for having a trade deficit that WE created by encouraging other countries to divest manufacturing from China and move it to Vietnam.

And none of you can answer any of the why basic economic questions that I've asked over and over, hoping for an answer, but you can't. You want the entire country to be Michigan, where regulation and protectionism drove the auto industry INTO THE GROUND. So now that they've moved to better places in the US with out those regulations and protectionism, you want to penalize these companies for that. Incredible.

All this is going to do is slow the economy down and reduce competition which will drive up costs. We are turning the entire economy into one giant Jones Act.

I give Cary credit, at least he explains his reasoning, which I disagree with, but at least he has an ethos. The rest of you can't explain your way out of a paper bag so you just resort to insults and "its TDS". No its not TDS for me, I would love for this to work, but the US economy isn't the 1880s anymore.

So, I think I have a good case to be myopic.
He said last night, while taking questions, that they can be negotiated. We are by far the largest economy in the world. 50% larger than the closest economy. We have so much leverage. For other countries to grow they must trade with the largest economies, ours being the largest by miles!!!!

You keep saying there is going to be a tax meaning an increase in prices and that does not need to be the case. I keep telling you there are three pieces to a profit equation. You are focused on the wrong 2.



And you're burying your head in the sand and ignoring the many problems and contradictions in this policy.

Lutnick has been making the rounds, adamant that this is not a negotiation tactic. The tariffs are here to stay. They would have to be if Trump is planning for tariffs to replace other taxes. It can't be a negotiation tactic and meaningful revenue generator at the same time. Those are contradictory positions.

And throwing a temper tantrum is not a not a negotiation tactic. We are specifically not honoring previous negotiations, including deals that Trump himself negotiated. Trump is making the US into a lying, unreliable partner who cant be counted on.
Not at all burying my head in the sand. Just have experience in import/export, tariffs, etc... Many years working with manufacturing in China and the advantage they have with government supported industry.
This is not new.

I also am clever enough not to be blinded by Trumps approach (I personally do not like it, and full disclosure did not vote for him). You guys get trolled by him every day. He loves being dramatic. Its what he does.

I like using the leverage we have. And as a capitalist, markets will level to what the consumer is willing to pay and/or companies are willing to sell for.

There are 3 parts to a profit equation. Not one of you have mentioned the 3rd!!!!
And apparently you're not going to mention it, either. Very clever!

So we've talked about input costs being forced up by tariffs.
We've talked about prices going up to offset costs.
We've talked about profit going down instead to offset costs.

Ok, I'm on the edge of my seat. What's the 3rd (4th?) part of the profit equation?
Total cost. Prices should be market driven.

And protectionism reduces competition which generally leads to higher prices.

That's on top of raw materials, where the tariff directly raises prices even on domestic production
Again, prices should be market driven. Protectionism does not have to reduce competition in a non communist market.
I'm struggling to follow your point. Either you don't raise the price and eat the extra costs (which then lowers employment, etc), OR you do raise the price which has several possible outcomes:
  • Consumers shrug (or for some things have no choice) and pay the higher price. A new tax.
  • Demand decreases, forcing you to lower the price back and eat the extra costs
  • Demand decreases but you keep the higher price, hurting consumers and reducing your market share and forcing you to eat the extra costs anyway.
Which is the good scenario, again?
Why am I not surprised someone who does not understand the benefits of adjustable rate borrowing would not understand. You are making a bad assumption that the only thing you can do is around prices. Prices are again not controlled by the producer. The market dictates prices. The producer controls cost. That is your hint.
Oh that's right, you're the adjustable rate expert who got his butt handed to him by an ARM. And you made your money as a private equity vampire. I think I understand now where the disconnect is.
I own two businesses, one I do work with PEs, the other is a rental property business. As I told you before I was not having my butt handed to me, I would just have made more money on an already successful rental property.

So you do understand why your assumption was wrong? To be successful you need to understand basic economics. First being the market sets the price (supply and demand stuff). Not the cost that is required to produce the product or provide the service.
You're lost in some semantic nonsense. Companies set their own prices and then adjust them based on market demand. But you're laboring under this private equity fantasy that there's always a way to cut costs, ignoring that many of those ways end up imploding the company (a win/win for private equity).
Market sets prices. Why there are laws against monopolies.

I do believe there are always ways to cut costs / eliminate waste. I am successful in my methodology and the companies I work with have sustainable profitable growth. But agree there are lots of people who cut costs and companies implode, both in PEs and non PEs.

I do work with PEs, mainly because of how fast I can transform companies. I work with as many non PE companies as PE companies. My methodology works as well in both.
Oldsouljer
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Got out of stocks weeks ago, made a bet on bonds, particularly since Trump said he was pushing for lower interest rates. Say what you will about the guy, if you listen to him, you too can make bank.

Werewolf
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#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
Werewolf
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Some of you Fox News viewers probably saw Jesse Watter's show. Jessie seems to be closer to having Tucker's reporting independence than anyone else on Fox News, but he's clearly his own brand. Hypocrisy can be so funny.........

#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
Werewolf
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Q: Why are they after this guy? MSM, BigGovt, Banks, Wall Street, Hollywood, EU elites?
A. He's not controlled.
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
IseWolf22
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Cthepack said:

IseWolf22 said:

Cthepack said:

IseWolf22 said:

Cthepack said:

SmaptyWolf said:

Cthepack said:

IseWolf22 said:

Cthepack said:

hokiewolf said:

Cthepack said:

IseWolf22 said:

caryking said:

hokiewolf said:

I guess a lot of people here now like common core math because the math on these tariffs is so made up that it's impossible to believe that smart people think it works.

When you have to lie to get you point across, you aren't standing on solid policy ground. The last administration lied about the inflation reduction act. I guess we're all cool with that spending now.
Hokie, you're not this simple minded...

As every person in this Admin has said, we will need a new Tax and regulation system to allow for this to work. Please don't be so myopic...

Good thing we have competent professionals making a detailed implementation plan to transition us.

Oh no we're actually just gonna ask chatgpt what to Tariff and wave our hands that everything will work out while every economist says we're full of crap
You can not be so one dimensional to not see that the numbers are only there to start negotiations, right?
What negotiation? Trump wants to do this because he has had a dumb idea that trade between countries is a zero sum outcome. It's not!

They made up their reciprocal tariff formula that makes zero sense, and tried to pass it off as some sort of complicated calculation, which is a lie. Then on their tariff chart, they put up there an uninhabited island that has a great number of seals and penguins, who somehow are imposing tariffs on imported US goods. The tariff rate is the same for Brazil and Singapore, two countries that are on the opposite ends of the scale with respect to free trade. And a 17% tariff remains on Israel even though they reduced their tariffs to zero.

ITS MAGIC BEANS

All we are going to get is a huge consumption tax increase on goods and services, and a trade war, which has already started with China.

Now, we're celebrating "new" foreign investment in the US manufacturing sector (I say new, because most of it isn't, but hey, we lie about everything else) while penalizing actual US companies and we are high fiving each other!

We have violated every single trade agreement, even ones negotiated by the greatest negotiator in the history of the universe, and pissed off every single one of our allies.

We are penalizing Vietnam for having a trade deficit that WE created by encouraging other countries to divest manufacturing from China and move it to Vietnam.

And none of you can answer any of the why basic economic questions that I've asked over and over, hoping for an answer, but you can't. You want the entire country to be Michigan, where regulation and protectionism drove the auto industry INTO THE GROUND. So now that they've moved to better places in the US with out those regulations and protectionism, you want to penalize these companies for that. Incredible.

All this is going to do is slow the economy down and reduce competition which will drive up costs. We are turning the entire economy into one giant Jones Act.

I give Cary credit, at least he explains his reasoning, which I disagree with, but at least he has an ethos. The rest of you can't explain your way out of a paper bag so you just resort to insults and "its TDS". No its not TDS for me, I would love for this to work, but the US economy isn't the 1880s anymore.

So, I think I have a good case to be myopic.
He said last night, while taking questions, that they can be negotiated. We are by far the largest economy in the world. 50% larger than the closest economy. We have so much leverage. For other countries to grow they must trade with the largest economies, ours being the largest by miles!!!!

You keep saying there is going to be a tax meaning an increase in prices and that does not need to be the case. I keep telling you there are three pieces to a profit equation. You are focused on the wrong 2.



And you're burying your head in the sand and ignoring the many problems and contradictions in this policy.

Lutnick has been making the rounds, adamant that this is not a negotiation tactic. The tariffs are here to stay. They would have to be if Trump is planning for tariffs to replace other taxes. It can't be a negotiation tactic and meaningful revenue generator at the same time. Those are contradictory positions.

And throwing a temper tantrum is not a not a negotiation tactic. We are specifically not honoring previous negotiations, including deals that Trump himself negotiated. Trump is making the US into a lying, unreliable partner who cant be counted on.
Not at all burying my head in the sand. Just have experience in import/export, tariffs, etc... Many years working with manufacturing in China and the advantage they have with government supported industry.
This is not new.

I also am clever enough not to be blinded by Trumps approach (I personally do not like it, and full disclosure did not vote for him). You guys get trolled by him every day. He loves being dramatic. Its what he does.

I like using the leverage we have. And as a capitalist, markets will level to what the consumer is willing to pay and/or companies are willing to sell for.

There are 3 parts to a profit equation. Not one of you have mentioned the 3rd!!!!
And apparently you're not going to mention it, either. Very clever!

So we've talked about input costs being forced up by tariffs.
We've talked about prices going up to offset costs.
We've talked about profit going down instead to offset costs.

Ok, I'm on the edge of my seat. What's the 3rd (4th?) part of the profit equation?
Total cost. Prices should be market driven.

And protectionism reduces competition which generally leads to higher prices.

That's on top of raw materials, where the tariff directly raises prices even on domestic production
Again, prices should be market driven. Protectionism does not have to reduce competition in a non communist market.


Protectionism by definition lessens competition. It's more difficult to compete with the entire world than only other US companies. Less competition doesn't mean no competition, but less is a fact.
The US economy is 50% larger than the next economy. Protectionism in the world's largest economy may actually promote more competition in the US.


Yeah, no economist is going to agree with that. It's nonsensical.

The US is 25% of world GDP. At best you're shielding yourself from 75% of the market. That's not more competition.
Werewolf
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"90,000 American factories closed down" sure seems like a large #.....

Don't let the MSM dupe you once again......like they did with the Virus and the Jab.

#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
hokiewolf
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caryking said:

hokiewolf said:

caryking said:

hokiewolf said:

Do you think there are more blue collar workers in manufacturing or construction?
Hokie, I'm not sure why you are asking that question. Who cares? Just go look at a UAW worker and tell me what kind of person you see…
I see someone who has been a protected class for years at the detriment to the industry he works in. Not his fault, he probably was bamboozled into thinking he'd get a great pension.

My point being, construction(service jobs) are more highly paid and more highly entrepreneurial (many small businesses make up the construction industry)than large manufacturing jobs. We are now putting all of that in jeopardy for a modest gain in manufacturing in the US.

Seems like a great trade off, considering that I do not think the nostalgia of the autoworkers of the 50s and 60s will ever come back. But guess what, that's ok because those jobs have been replaced in other areas of the US.

Instead of trying to figure out what the new economy should be in the rust belt, we go to nostalgia well that dried up a long time ago. Same goes for the steel industry. And we risk the entire economy to do it. Seems like checkers.
Hokie, no offense but you just asked a question (above) about making capital investments when a company isn't profitable. I think that question makes me question your business acumen.

All this other diatribe is just so unimportant. Learn a little business knowledge and less discuss…
Business invest when they can get a return on investment. When you put in centralized planning policies that interfere with that, then they are less likely to make those investments.

That means then that the centralized planners will then have to get the government to do what the private sector doesn't want to do, and then you get socialism.

I remember a time when we didn't want the government to pick winners and losers in the market and we believed in a free market and investing in small business.

Question me all you want, but when you scream Socialism for 4 years and you win an election on the prices are to high, THEN you enact actual socialism and tell people to swallow the pain and high prices, I'm just not going to believe this whole experiment comes from conservative principles.
Werewolf
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Another one takes the knee.
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
Werewolf
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HUGE ............the enemy crumbles.


#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
Cthepack
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IseWolf22 said:

Cthepack said:

IseWolf22 said:

Cthepack said:

IseWolf22 said:

Cthepack said:

SmaptyWolf said:

Cthepack said:

IseWolf22 said:

Cthepack said:

hokiewolf said:

Cthepack said:

IseWolf22 said:

caryking said:

hokiewolf said:

I guess a lot of people here now like common core math because the math on these tariffs is so made up that it's impossible to believe that smart people think it works.

When you have to lie to get you point across, you aren't standing on solid policy ground. The last administration lied about the inflation reduction act. I guess we're all cool with that spending now.
Hokie, you're not this simple minded...

As every person in this Admin has said, we will need a new Tax and regulation system to allow for this to work. Please don't be so myopic...

Good thing we have competent professionals making a detailed implementation plan to transition us.

Oh no we're actually just gonna ask chatgpt what to Tariff and wave our hands that everything will work out while every economist says we're full of crap
You can not be so one dimensional to not see that the numbers are only there to start negotiations, right?
What negotiation? Trump wants to do this because he has had a dumb idea that trade between countries is a zero sum outcome. It's not!

They made up their reciprocal tariff formula that makes zero sense, and tried to pass it off as some sort of complicated calculation, which is a lie. Then on their tariff chart, they put up there an uninhabited island that has a great number of seals and penguins, who somehow are imposing tariffs on imported US goods. The tariff rate is the same for Brazil and Singapore, two countries that are on the opposite ends of the scale with respect to free trade. And a 17% tariff remains on Israel even though they reduced their tariffs to zero.

ITS MAGIC BEANS

All we are going to get is a huge consumption tax increase on goods and services, and a trade war, which has already started with China.

Now, we're celebrating "new" foreign investment in the US manufacturing sector (I say new, because most of it isn't, but hey, we lie about everything else) while penalizing actual US companies and we are high fiving each other!

We have violated every single trade agreement, even ones negotiated by the greatest negotiator in the history of the universe, and pissed off every single one of our allies.

We are penalizing Vietnam for having a trade deficit that WE created by encouraging other countries to divest manufacturing from China and move it to Vietnam.

And none of you can answer any of the why basic economic questions that I've asked over and over, hoping for an answer, but you can't. You want the entire country to be Michigan, where regulation and protectionism drove the auto industry INTO THE GROUND. So now that they've moved to better places in the US with out those regulations and protectionism, you want to penalize these companies for that. Incredible.

All this is going to do is slow the economy down and reduce competition which will drive up costs. We are turning the entire economy into one giant Jones Act.

I give Cary credit, at least he explains his reasoning, which I disagree with, but at least he has an ethos. The rest of you can't explain your way out of a paper bag so you just resort to insults and "its TDS". No its not TDS for me, I would love for this to work, but the US economy isn't the 1880s anymore.

So, I think I have a good case to be myopic.
He said last night, while taking questions, that they can be negotiated. We are by far the largest economy in the world. 50% larger than the closest economy. We have so much leverage. For other countries to grow they must trade with the largest economies, ours being the largest by miles!!!!

You keep saying there is going to be a tax meaning an increase in prices and that does not need to be the case. I keep telling you there are three pieces to a profit equation. You are focused on the wrong 2.



And you're burying your head in the sand and ignoring the many problems and contradictions in this policy.

Lutnick has been making the rounds, adamant that this is not a negotiation tactic. The tariffs are here to stay. They would have to be if Trump is planning for tariffs to replace other taxes. It can't be a negotiation tactic and meaningful revenue generator at the same time. Those are contradictory positions.

And throwing a temper tantrum is not a not a negotiation tactic. We are specifically not honoring previous negotiations, including deals that Trump himself negotiated. Trump is making the US into a lying, unreliable partner who cant be counted on.
Not at all burying my head in the sand. Just have experience in import/export, tariffs, etc... Many years working with manufacturing in China and the advantage they have with government supported industry.
This is not new.

I also am clever enough not to be blinded by Trumps approach (I personally do not like it, and full disclosure did not vote for him). You guys get trolled by him every day. He loves being dramatic. Its what he does.

I like using the leverage we have. And as a capitalist, markets will level to what the consumer is willing to pay and/or companies are willing to sell for.

There are 3 parts to a profit equation. Not one of you have mentioned the 3rd!!!!
And apparently you're not going to mention it, either. Very clever!

So we've talked about input costs being forced up by tariffs.
We've talked about prices going up to offset costs.
We've talked about profit going down instead to offset costs.

Ok, I'm on the edge of my seat. What's the 3rd (4th?) part of the profit equation?
Total cost. Prices should be market driven.

And protectionism reduces competition which generally leads to higher prices.

That's on top of raw materials, where the tariff directly raises prices even on domestic production
Again, prices should be market driven. Protectionism does not have to reduce competition in a non communist market.


Protectionism by definition lessens competition. It's more difficult to compete with the entire world than only other US companies. Less competition doesn't mean no competition, but less is a fact.
The US economy is 50% larger than the next economy. Protectionism in the world's largest economy may actually promote more competition in the US.


Yeah, no economist is going to agree with that. It's nonsensical.

The US is 25% of world GDP. At best you're shielding yourself from 75% of the market. That's not more competition.
Its is not like 75% of the global market is working together against 25%. The US is opportunistic and large enough to spawn competition.
Werewolf
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Many more #receipts to come.
#Devolution #Expand Your Thinking #Eye of The Storm #TheGreatAwakening
Werewolf
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It's 'that time'
Werewolf
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You'd almost think this stuff was a made up show, LOL.
Werewolf
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Werewolf
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#Gobbler, will you please fact check these for me?


Werewolf
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King Charles & Klaus, victory nears!!!

Werewolf
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Mt Rushmore bound!
Werewolf
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How's this going to work out for the CCP? There will huge unemployment #'s and discontent.
Werewolf
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Civ, how's your TDS tonight? Gobbler, how about yours?
Werewolf
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Read em' n weep, fellas. Good night Civ, Gobbler and Nappy, LOL.


Civilized
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That's like 10 in a row man.

Flip the circuit breaker.
hokiewolf
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I ask that all of you please read this article and tell me there is a plan for all of this?

https://www.aei.org/economics/president-trumps-tariff-formula-makes-no-economic-sense-its-also-based-on-an-error/
hokiewolf
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Time is a flat circle

jkpackfan
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And weapons of mass destruction are in Iraq.
SmaptyWolf
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hokiewolf said:

Time is a flat circle


Man, it never ceases to amaze me how much Trump has made W look like an elder statesmen.
Wolfblood
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SmaptyWolf said:

hokiewolf said:

Time is a flat circle


Man, it never ceases to amaze me how much Trump has made W look like an elder statesmen.


Yeah, GWB has really grown from the days when he was a Nazi chimp war criminal.
Werewolf
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Alberta Canada....come on down!

Werewolf
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Excellent discussion on tariffs - both current and past - and the existential threat posed by China. 18 minutes
jkpackfan
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Interesting opinion piece. I'm sure all the "experts" on here will scoff.

We will see if all this works.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/heres-what-trump-really-up-high-stakes-tariff-gambit
Oldsouljer
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Wow, you actually ask questions! Up to now, I suspected you might be a 'bot. J/k.

In fact, due to their extreme self-imposed covid policies, they already drove themselves into a deflationary spiral somewhere between America's 1974 experience and the Great Depression in severity. They MUST export greatly to reverse the death spiral that they're in. Chicom leadership is in a tight situation. Trump is very possibly right about one thing, the move the Chico's made the other day is out of both anger and desperation
hokiewolf
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jkpackfan said:

Interesting opinion piece. I'm sure all the "experts" on here will scoff.

We will see if all this works.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/heres-what-trump-really-up-high-stakes-tariff-gambit
ok, lets say this is a refinance the debt strategy, then he has to tank the dollar to get the ten year treasury down to refinance the debt and he needs the tariff money to pay for the tax cuts. The. It ALSO can't be a negotiation tactic to to lower the tariffs on other countries.

I get that that's the premise, but I just don't see that as the reasoning. It's also a really huge gamble when there are much better things you can do to reduce the debt, like not create a budget that increases the deficit. This seems like an excuse rather than an actual thought. Trump wants tariffs because he thinks trade deficits are "stealing". That's the only reason why he's doing it.
jkpackfan
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You/we have no idea the conversations that have been had and the reasoning behind it all.
hokiewolf
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jkpackfan said:

You/we have no idea the conversations that have been had and the reasoning behind it all.

You asked us to read the article and I did. Did you read the one I sent last night?

I see a lot of lies and terrible math. So, I think one can conclude pretty easily what the conversations on reasoning are. There isn't any
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