lol. It's funny how off the rails people have gone with Trump winning the presidency. Now RUSSIA!!!! and PUTIN!!!! are going to take over all of Eastern Europe so we must continue to spend billions protecting their borders. But don't protect US borders from the drug and human trafficking of the cartels. That's wasted money.

Oh yeah, and also, TUCKER CARLSON!!!

Edit to add... just a few weeks ago, they wanted to protect the border again when Kamala still had a chance... how the tides turn...

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Trump promises 'hell to pay' in Middle East if hostages are not released before he takes office

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-promises-hell-to-pay-middle-east-hostages-not-released-takes-office.amp

- - -

While President Biden pardons his crackhead son, President Trump is ready to take names and whip @$$.

---

So when Biden takes a tough foreign policy stance, he's starting World War III but when Trump does it, he's Robocop-in-Chief taking names and whipping ass?

LOL

Pure rational consistency right there.

---

How many America hostages does Russia hold? How many have they killed?

I know you can't think straight when it comes to your new President Trump but you do see that difference right?

---

Obviously, the situations are different.

Yet, it's clear we have needs both to support Israel and the return of hostages, and also resist Putin's invasion and annexation of Ukraine. Russia holding US hostages is not a prerequisite to us caring about and being invested in and impacted by outcomes there.

I've said my piece on Trump going into this election. He won the election. I've been quiet on here the last three weeks. I'm not going to run around getting excited about hypotheticals that stem from his constant blathering or from his wild adminstration and cabinet picks before he's even in office.

In two months he has to govern, not just talk, and he'll be judged on the results of said governance.

---

Yes, obviously. The situation is way different and your comparison was farcical and you better believe holding and killing American hostages IS worth a strong response.

Putin bad. Putin real bad. Putin real real bad. I get it. Next to President Trump, he's the biggest bad guy in history.

I don't get worked up when he takes a part of Ukraine filled with millions of Russians and who have not voted in Ukrainian Parliamentary elections in decades. You make it sound like he's taken the entire country and moving into Romania and Poland now. You ever notice the moves Putin makes are when we have democrats in the White House?

I think it was President Obama who said the 80's called and wanted their foreign policy back? He also said Ukraine holds no strategic importance for the U. S. Was he wrong or just incompetent?

One thing is for sure President Trump can't do any worse than what we have now.

---

So you're good with Mexico annexing parts of Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas because they were once part of Mexico? It's the same thing. Ukraine is a sovereign nation that was attacked by Russia simply because Putin has a warped since of history.

We as the largest democracy in the world and a world superpower have an obligation to protect against that sort of aggression, whether we like the government of Ukraine or not.

---

The good people of AZ, NM and TX at least vote in American elections. The people in regions Putin captured have not voted in decades. Why?

Like I said to Civ, if you feel we are obligated to protect Ukraine when are you joining up to do your part?

---

Thats such a cop out argument. The premise remains the same. Putin attacked Ukraine because he felt like it, not to "liberate Russian speaking people in Ukraine". You buy that garbage to? That werewolf type stuff. Are you also good with the US retreating as a world superpower? Because that's what is going to happen.

---

Putin woke up one morning and just "felt like" attacking Ukraine? Okay…if you say so. Bye the way who were the Presidents when Putin made his move on Ukraine?

---

Who's going to be the President who is going to give Putin exactly what he wants?

---

Since you're a mind reader, what exactly does Putin want? Part of Ukraine? All of Ukraine? Romania? Poland? All of Europe?

---

He wants to reclaim all of the historical Russian territory. I don't need to read his mind, he's said it himself, to your Guy Tucker Carlson.

So that includes all of Eastern Europe including NATO countries. Maybe we should just hand it all over to him. Hes such a good, strong, admirable dictator

---

Russian territory or Soviet Union territory?

caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Trump promises 'hell to pay' in Middle East if hostages are not released before he takes office

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-promises-hell-to-pay-middle-east-hostages-not-released-takes-office.amp

- - -

While President Biden pardons his crackhead son, President Trump is ready to take names and whip @$$.

---

So when Biden takes a tough foreign policy stance, he's starting World War III but when Trump does it, he's Robocop-in-Chief taking names and whipping ass?

LOL

Pure rational consistency right there.

---

How many America hostages does Russia hold? How many have they killed?

I know you can't think straight when it comes to your new President Trump but you do see that difference right?

---

Obviously, the situations are different.

Yet, it's clear we have needs both to support Israel and the return of hostages, and also resist Putin's invasion and annexation of Ukraine. Russia holding US hostages is not a prerequisite to us caring about and being invested in and impacted by outcomes there.

I've said my piece on Trump going into this election. He won the election. I've been quiet on here the last three weeks. I'm not going to run around getting excited about hypotheticals that stem from his constant blathering or from his wild adminstration and cabinet picks before he's even in office.

In two months he has to govern, not just talk, and he'll be judged on the results of said governance.

---

Yes, obviously. The situation is way different and your comparison was farcical and you better believe holding and killing American hostages IS worth a strong response.

Putin bad. Putin real bad. Putin real real bad. I get it. Next to President Trump, he's the biggest bad guy in history.

I don't get worked up when he takes a part of Ukraine filled with millions of Russians and who have not voted in Ukrainian Parliamentary elections in decades. You make it sound like he's taken the entire country and moving into Romania and Poland now. You ever notice the moves Putin makes are when we have democrats in the White House?

I think it was President Obama who said the 80's called and wanted their foreign policy back? He also said Ukraine holds no strategic importance for the U. S. Was he wrong or just incompetent?

One thing is for sure President Trump can't do any worse than what we have now.

---

So you're good with Mexico annexing parts of Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas because they were once part of Mexico? It's the same thing. Ukraine is a sovereign nation that was attacked by Russia simply because Putin has a warped since of history.

We as the largest democracy in the world and a world superpower have an obligation to protect against that sort of aggression, whether we like the government of Ukraine or not.

---

The good people of AZ, NM and TX at least vote in American elections. The people in regions Putin captured have not voted in decades. Why?

Like I said to Civ, if you feel we are obligated to protect Ukraine when are you joining up to do your part?

---

Thats such a cop out argument. The premise remains the same. Putin attacked Ukraine because he felt like it, not to "liberate Russian speaking people in Ukraine". You buy that garbage to? That werewolf type stuff. Are you also good with the US retreating as a world superpower? Because that's what is going to happen.

---

Putin woke up one morning and just "felt like" attacking Ukraine? Okay…if you say so. Bye the way who were the Presidents when Putin made his move on Ukraine?

---

Who's going to be the President who is going to give Putin exactly what he wants?

---

Since you're a mind reader, what exactly does Putin want? Part of Ukraine? All of Ukraine? Romania? Poland? All of Europe?

---

He wants to reclaim all of the historical Russian territory. I don't need to read his mind, he's said it himself, to your Guy Tucker Carlson.

So that includes all of Eastern Europe including NATO countries. Maybe we should just hand it all over to him. Hes such a good, strong, admirable dictator

---

Russian territory or Soviet Union territory?

---

He sees those areas as the original Russian territory dating back centuries

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Gulfstream4 said:

---

Trump promises 'hell to pay' in Middle East if hostages are not released before he takes office

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-promises-hell-to-pay-middle-east-hostages-not-released-takes-office.amp

- - -

While President Biden pardons his crackhead son, President Trump is ready to take names and whip @$$.

---

So when Biden takes a tough foreign policy stance, he's starting World War III but when Trump does it, he's Robocop-in-Chief taking names and whipping ass?

LOL

Pure rational consistency right there.

---

How many America hostages does Russia hold? How many have they killed?

I know you can't think straight when it comes to your new President Trump but you do see that difference right?

---

Obviously, the situations are different.

Yet, it's clear we have needs both to support Israel and the return of hostages, and also resist Putin's invasion and annexation of Ukraine. Russia holding US hostages is not a prerequisite to us caring about and being invested in and impacted by outcomes there.

I've said my piece on Trump going into this election. He won the election. I've been quiet on here the last three weeks. I'm not going to run around getting excited about hypotheticals that stem from his constant blathering or from his wild adminstration and cabinet picks before he's even in office.

In two months he has to govern, not just talk, and he'll be judged on the results of said governance.

---

Yes, obviously. The situation is way different and your comparison was farcical and you better believe holding and killing American hostages IS worth a strong response.

Putin bad. Putin real bad. Putin real real bad. I get it. Next to President Trump, he's the biggest bad guy in history.

I don't get worked up when he takes a part of Ukraine filled with millions of Russians and who have not voted in Ukrainian Parliamentary elections in decades. You make it sound like he's taken the entire country and moving into Romania and Poland now. You ever notice the moves Putin makes are when we have democrats in the White House?

I think it was President Obama who said the 80's called and wanted their foreign policy back? He also said Ukraine holds no strategic importance for the U. S. Was he wrong or just incompetent?

One thing is for sure President Trump can't do any worse than what we have now.

---

So you're good with Mexico annexing parts of Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas because they were once part of Mexico? It's the same thing. Ukraine is a sovereign nation that was attacked by Russia simply because Putin has a warped since of history.

We as the largest democracy in the world and a world superpower have an obligation to protect against that sort of aggression, whether we like the government of Ukraine or not.

---

The good people of AZ, NM and TX at least vote in American elections. The people in regions Putin captured have not voted in decades. Why?

Like I said to Civ, if you feel we are obligated to protect Ukraine when are you joining up to do your part?

---

Thats such a cop out argument. The premise remains the same. Putin attacked Ukraine because he felt like it, not to "liberate Russian speaking people in Ukraine". You buy that garbage to? That werewolf type stuff. Are you also good with the US retreating as a world superpower? Because that's what is going to happen.

---

Putin woke up one morning and just "felt like" attacking Ukraine? Okay…if you say so. Bye the way who were the Presidents when Putin made his move on Ukraine?

---

Who's going to be the President who is going to give Putin exactly what he wants?

---

Since you're a mind reader, what exactly does Putin want? Part of Ukraine? All of Ukraine? Romania? Poland? All of Europe?

---

He wants to reclaim all of the historical Russian territory. I don't need to read his mind, he's said it himself, to your Guy Tucker Carlson.

So that includes all of Eastern Europe including NATO countries. Maybe we should just hand it all over to him. Hes such a good, strong, admirable dictator

---

Russian territory or Soviet Union territory?

---

He sees those areas as the original Russian territory dating back centuries

---

For the MAGA crowd, who clearly skipped World History class, here's a map of Europe in 1815. Notice how Poland and Finland are actually part of the Russian Empire at that point? (And Germany and Italy don't even exists as countries?)

European borders changed constantly, and the whole point of NATO was to finally put an end to centuries of border wars. It's been remarkably successful for the last 75 years, which apparently is long enough for the know-nothings to now want to tear it all down.

But yeah, there's a reason Sweden and Finland just dove head-first into NATO after ages of neutrality. The second the U.S. allows Russia or anyone else to start playing the "historical borders" game again you can guarantee we'll be dragged into another World War sooner rather than later.

Prussia in 1800 was primarily Poland and Germany if that the optimum choice of time. Russian speaking people reside in the areas that Putin has taken and they wish to be part of Russia. Putin could have steamrolled Kiev within a week much like we did Iraq if it chose to do so.

I will let you boys in on a secret. The US Armed Forces advised Putin -early on - that tactical nuclear weapons were authorized if the Russians advanced on Kiev. Sayeth Juan O'Savin.


Here ya go, and #Gobbler can bemoan what year, blah blah blah. It's just another TDS symptom.
Euratlas Periodis Web - Map of Europe in Year 1800

Werewolf said:

---

Prussia in 1800 was primarily Poland and Germany if that the optimum choice of time. Russian speaking people reside in the areas that Putin has taken and they wish to be part of Russia. Putin could have steamrolled Kiev within a week much like we did Iraq if it chose to do so.

I will let you boys in on a secret. The US Armed Forces advised Putin -early on - that tactical nuclear weapons were authorized if the Russians advanced on Kiev. Sayeth Juan O'Savin.


Here ya go, and #Gobbler can bemoan what year, blah blah blah. It's just another TDS symptom.
Euratlas Periodis Web - Map of Europe in Year 1800

---

I encourage you to read just one article explaining what Putin believes are the true Russian borders from those Liberal hacks at The National Review.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/02/vladimir-putins-terrifying-alternate-history/amp/

Trump lays out the case against the Manchurian candidate, Joe Biden, and his crime family.

Trumps Plan for the Biden Crime Family — He will Assign a Special Prosecutor and “they will Pay a Substantial Price” if Found Guilty — Our President is being Blackmailed

“It is now 100% proven that the Biden crime family received more than $20 million from foreign countries… pic.twitter.com/5VysWBQNIu

— MJTruthUltra (@MJTruthUltra) December 3, 2024

Werewolf said:

---

Trump lays out the case against the Manchurian candidate, Joe Biden, and his crime family.

Trumps Plan for the Biden Crime Family — He will Assign a Special Prosecutor and “they will Pay a Substantial Price” if Found Guilty — Our President is being Blackmailed

“It is now 100% proven that the Biden crime family received more than $20 million from foreign countries… pic.twitter.com/5VysWBQNIu

— MJTruthUltra (@MJTruthUltra) December 3, 2024

---

Lol, "lays out the case".

The only thing this statement guarantees is that the Trump crime family is raking in millions from foreign countries. Trump has definitely mastered the old Karl Rove playbook... always blame Dems for what you are doing.

Oh lookie here! A Chinese entrepreneur just dropped $30 million into Trump's new bitcoin business! Good time for Trump to "lay out the case" against Biden!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/12/03/trump-crypto-chinese-entrepreneur/

Speaking of "draining the swamp", Trump just nominated Elon Musk's BFF Jared Isaacman to run NASA. That should work out nicely for SpaceX.

packgrad said:

---

Some migrants, anticipating Trump's policies, are already turning back home: report https://t.co/0PM5Ag9qSJ

— Fox News (@FoxNews) December 4, 2024

---

Thats an awesome step 1. What's the next step to increase the means of legal immigration into the US and make it less cumbersome than paying the cartels tens of thousands of dollars to coyote you into the US illegally?

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Truly lol at hokie and his pals fear mongering about Putin and Russia NOW. Putin has already said he's willing to negotiate an end with Trump as president, assuming their guy doesn't start WW3 before Trump gets in office.

Seek help, TDS boys. You're pitiful. Maybe one day you'll be right with your predictions about Trump.

---

nope, I've been consistent with my position for a while now. You can ask your buddy werewolf

Trump will bring both sides to the negotiating table, and Putin will get the territory he wants, which will end the war and that is a good thing because contrary to your and others beliefs, I don't like war, but I at least acknowledge that when it is in the best interest of the US to intervene, they should. And we disagree about this stance and you resort to mocking and name calling like a child and I'm supposed to join a militia or I'm a chicken ***** It's just such a disingenuous way to argue.

So a truce will happen, I'm thankful it will end the war, but it's not going to help the standing of the US in the world and it's going to strengthen Putin, an actual really bad guy.

---

Yeah because I told you to join a militia and called you chicken ***** Lying just like your buddies civ and smapty. And also such a disingenuous way to argue, hypocrite. Keep being a victim, hokie. It suits you well.

Ending the war does not hurt the US standing, nor does it strengthen Putin. All that is is more of your TDS propaganda to make a good resolution a "Trump bad" statement. It's remarkable that you could frame the US negotiating an end to the war as a negative, but I guess that's to be expected from you and your pals these days.

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Truly lol at hokie and his pals fear mongering about Putin and Russia NOW. Putin has already said he's willing to negotiate an end with Trump as president, assuming their guy doesn't start WW3 before Trump gets in office.

Seek help, TDS boys. You're pitiful. Maybe one day you'll be right with your predictions about Trump.

---

nope, I've been consistent with my position for a while now. You can ask your buddy werewolf

Trump will bring both sides to the negotiating table, and Putin will get the territory he wants, which will end the war and that is a good thing because contrary to your and others beliefs, I don't like war, but I at least acknowledge that when it is in the best interest of the US to intervene, they should. And we disagree about this stance and you resort to mocking and name calling like a child and I'm supposed to join a militia or I'm a chicken ***** It's just such a disingenuous way to argue.

So a truce will happen, I'm thankful it will end the war, but it's not going to help the standing of the US in the world and it's going to strengthen Putin, an actual really bad guy.

---

Ending the war does not hurt the US standing, nor does it strengthen Putin.

---

Putin being rewarded for militarily annexing part of an adjacent sovereign nation very clearly strengthens him in multiple ways.

The Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine is rich in coal and industrial capacity.

Russia being rewarded by invading a sovereign neighbor is a very visible success as Putin tries to reassert Russia's power and resist Western influence. It also strengthens nationalism in Russia and rallies public support at home.

Ukraine ceding land and being weakened with a loss of territory and resources makes them less of a threat to and buffer from Putin's authoritarianism.

You can say you want the war to end, but nobody can say Ukraine ceding territory isn't a clear win for Putin.

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Truly lol at hokie and his pals fear mongering about Putin and Russia NOW. Putin has already said he's willing to negotiate an end with Trump as president, assuming their guy doesn't start WW3 before Trump gets in office.

Seek help, TDS boys. You're pitiful. Maybe one day you'll be right with your predictions about Trump.

---

nope, I've been consistent with my position for a while now. You can ask your buddy werewolf

Trump will bring both sides to the negotiating table, and Putin will get the territory he wants, which will end the war and that is a good thing because contrary to your and others beliefs, I don't like war, but I at least acknowledge that when it is in the best interest of the US to intervene, they should. And we disagree about this stance and you resort to mocking and name calling like a child and I'm supposed to join a militia or I'm a chicken ***** It's just such a disingenuous way to argue.

So a truce will happen, I'm thankful it will end the war, but it's not going to help the standing of the US in the world and it's going to strengthen Putin, an actual really bad guy.

---

Ending the war does not hurt the US standing, nor does it strengthen Putin.

---

Putin being rewarded for militarily annexing part of an adjacent sovereign nation very clearly strengthens him in multiple ways.

The Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine is rich in coal and industrial capacity.

Russia being rewarded by invading a sovereign neighbor is a very visible success as Putin tries to reassert Russia's power and resist Western influence. It also strengthens nationalism in Russia and rallies public support at home.

Ukraine ceding land and being weakened with a loss of territory and resources makes them less of a threat to and buffer from Putin's authoritarianism.

You can say you want the war to end, but nobody can say Ukraine ceding territory isn't a clear win for Putin.

---

You think Russia is supposed to pack their bags and go home? lol. You think they're not supposed to keep the territories? Thats not going to happen.

Russia's world standing does not improve because of a US led negotiation to end the war. Nor does it weaken the US standing. You can try to twist and squirm to present a way this would be a bad ending, but you're wrong. Unless you think continuing to funnel billions of dollars to Ukraine so that hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian and Russian men can continue to die for the enrichment of 2 egotistical men is "right".

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Truly lol at hokie and his pals fear mongering about Putin and Russia NOW. Putin has already said he's willing to negotiate an end with Trump as president, assuming their guy doesn't start WW3 before Trump gets in office.

Seek help, TDS boys. You're pitiful. Maybe one day you'll be right with your predictions about Trump.

---

nope, I've been consistent with my position for a while now. You can ask your buddy werewolf

Trump will bring both sides to the negotiating table, and Putin will get the territory he wants, which will end the war and that is a good thing because contrary to your and others beliefs, I don't like war, but I at least acknowledge that when it is in the best interest of the US to intervene, they should. And we disagree about this stance and you resort to mocking and name calling like a child and I'm supposed to join a militia or I'm a chicken ***** It's just such a disingenuous way to argue.

So a truce will happen, I'm thankful it will end the war, but it's not going to help the standing of the US in the world and it's going to strengthen Putin, an actual really bad guy.

---

Ending the war does not hurt the US standing, nor does it strengthen Putin.

---

Putin being rewarded for militarily annexing part of an adjacent sovereign nation very clearly strengthens him in multiple ways.

The Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine is rich in coal and industrial capacity.

Russia being rewarded by invading a sovereign neighbor is a very visible success as Putin tries to reassert Russia's power and resist Western influence. It also strengthens nationalism in Russia and rallies public support at home.

Ukraine ceding land and being weakened with a loss of territory and resources makes them less of a threat to and buffer from Putin's authoritarianism.

You can say you want the war to end, but nobody can say Ukraine ceding territory isn't a clear win for Putin.

---

Who were the two Presidents when Putin made his moves on Ukraine? Who was the President when Putin did nothing?

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Truly lol at hokie and his pals fear mongering about Putin and Russia NOW. Putin has already said he's willing to negotiate an end with Trump as president, assuming their guy doesn't start WW3 before Trump gets in office.

Seek help, TDS boys. You're pitiful. Maybe one day you'll be right with your predictions about Trump.

---

nope, I've been consistent with my position for a while now. You can ask your buddy werewolf

Trump will bring both sides to the negotiating table, and Putin will get the territory he wants, which will end the war and that is a good thing because contrary to your and others beliefs, I don't like war, but I at least acknowledge that when it is in the best interest of the US to intervene, they should. And we disagree about this stance and you resort to mocking and name calling like a child and I'm supposed to join a militia or I'm a chicken ***** It's just such a disingenuous way to argue.

So a truce will happen, I'm thankful it will end the war, but it's not going to help the standing of the US in the world and it's going to strengthen Putin, an actual really bad guy.

---

Ending the war does not hurt the US standing, nor does it strengthen Putin.

---

Putin being rewarded for militarily annexing part of an adjacent sovereign nation very clearly strengthens him in multiple ways.

The Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine is rich in coal and industrial capacity.

Russia being rewarded by invading a sovereign neighbor is a very visible success as Putin tries to reassert Russia's power and resist Western influence. It also strengthens nationalism in Russia and rallies public support at home.

Ukraine ceding land and being weakened with a loss of territory and resources makes them less of a threat to and buffer from Putin's authoritarianism.

You can say you want the war to end, but nobody can say Ukraine ceding territory isn't a clear win for Putin.

---

Ultimately, the exchange of land is the most likely outcome. That said, what other option would you propose?

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Truly lol at hokie and his pals fear mongering about Putin and Russia NOW. Putin has already said he's willing to negotiate an end with Trump as president, assuming their guy doesn't start WW3 before Trump gets in office.

Seek help, TDS boys. You're pitiful. Maybe one day you'll be right with your predictions about Trump.

---

nope, I've been consistent with my position for a while now. You can ask your buddy werewolf

Trump will bring both sides to the negotiating table, and Putin will get the territory he wants, which will end the war and that is a good thing because contrary to your and others beliefs, I don't like war, but I at least acknowledge that when it is in the best interest of the US to intervene, they should. And we disagree about this stance and you resort to mocking and name calling like a child and I'm supposed to join a militia or I'm a chicken ***** It's just such a disingenuous way to argue.

So a truce will happen, I'm thankful it will end the war, but it's not going to help the standing of the US in the world and it's going to strengthen Putin, an actual really bad guy.

---

Ending the war does not hurt the US standing, nor does it strengthen Putin.

---

Putin being rewarded for militarily annexing part of an adjacent sovereign nation very clearly strengthens him in multiple ways.

The Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine is rich in coal and industrial capacity.

Russia being rewarded by invading a sovereign neighbor is a very visible success as Putin tries to reassert Russia's power and resist Western influence. It also strengthens nationalism in Russia and rallies public support at home.

Ukraine ceding land and being weakened with a loss of territory and resources makes them less of a threat to and buffer from Putin's authoritarianism.

You can say you want the war to end, but nobody can say Ukraine ceding territory isn't a clear win for Putin.

---

Ultimately, the exchange of land is the most likely outcome. That said, what other option would you propose?

---

Allowing Ukraine to continue the fight and occupy Russian territory so that they have something to negotiate with.

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Truly lol at hokie and his pals fear mongering about Putin and Russia NOW. Putin has already said he's willing to negotiate an end with Trump as president, assuming their guy doesn't start WW3 before Trump gets in office.

Seek help, TDS boys. You're pitiful. Maybe one day you'll be right with your predictions about Trump.

---

nope, I've been consistent with my position for a while now. You can ask your buddy werewolf

Trump will bring both sides to the negotiating table, and Putin will get the territory he wants, which will end the war and that is a good thing because contrary to your and others beliefs, I don't like war, but I at least acknowledge that when it is in the best interest of the US to intervene, they should. And we disagree about this stance and you resort to mocking and name calling like a child and I'm supposed to join a militia or I'm a chicken ***** It's just such a disingenuous way to argue.

So a truce will happen, I'm thankful it will end the war, but it's not going to help the standing of the US in the world and it's going to strengthen Putin, an actual really bad guy.

---

Ending the war does not hurt the US standing, nor does it strengthen Putin.

---

Putin being rewarded for militarily annexing part of an adjacent sovereign nation very clearly strengthens him in multiple ways.

The Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine is rich in coal and industrial capacity.

Russia being rewarded by invading a sovereign neighbor is a very visible success as Putin tries to reassert Russia's power and resist Western influence. It also strengthens nationalism in Russia and rallies public support at home.

Ukraine ceding land and being weakened with a loss of territory and resources makes them less of a threat to and buffer from Putin's authoritarianism.

You can say you want the war to end, but nobody can say Ukraine ceding territory isn't a clear win for Putin.

---

Ultimately, the exchange of land is the most likely outcome. That said, what other option would you propose?

---

Allowing Ukraine to continue the fight and occupy Russian territory so that they have something to negotiate with.

---

"Allowing" them? What you mean is paying for them to continue the fight.

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Truly lol at hokie and his pals fear mongering about Putin and Russia NOW. Putin has already said he's willing to negotiate an end with Trump as president, assuming their guy doesn't start WW3 before Trump gets in office.

Seek help, TDS boys. You're pitiful. Maybe one day you'll be right with your predictions about Trump.

---

nope, I've been consistent with my position for a while now. You can ask your buddy werewolf

Trump will bring both sides to the negotiating table, and Putin will get the territory he wants, which will end the war and that is a good thing because contrary to your and others beliefs, I don't like war, but I at least acknowledge that when it is in the best interest of the US to intervene, they should. And we disagree about this stance and you resort to mocking and name calling like a child and I'm supposed to join a militia or I'm a chicken ***** It's just such a disingenuous way to argue.

So a truce will happen, I'm thankful it will end the war, but it's not going to help the standing of the US in the world and it's going to strengthen Putin, an actual really bad guy.

---

Ending the war does not hurt the US standing, nor does it strengthen Putin.

---

Putin being rewarded for militarily annexing part of an adjacent sovereign nation very clearly strengthens him in multiple ways.

The Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine is rich in coal and industrial capacity.

Russia being rewarded by invading a sovereign neighbor is a very visible success as Putin tries to reassert Russia's power and resist Western influence. It also strengthens nationalism in Russia and rallies public support at home.

Ukraine ceding land and being weakened with a loss of territory and resources makes them less of a threat to and buffer from Putin's authoritarianism.

You can say you want the war to end, but nobody can say Ukraine ceding territory isn't a clear win for Putin.

---

Ultimately, the exchange of land is the most likely outcome. That said, what other option would you propose?

---

Allowing Ukraine to continue the fight and occupy Russian territory so that they have something to negotiate with.

---

"Allowing" them? What you mean is paying for them to continue the fight.

---

First we are not paying them. We are providing weapons to them and then buying more US produced weapons.

2nd Trump has stated he will "End the war on day 1", so that's what I mean, giving them time to execute their current strategy because Biden has done a very very poor job in executing strategy that honestly could have already produced a positive outcome for ending the war already.

It was an error in foreign policy that Biden has built on over the last 50 year of being wrong repeatedly about US foreign policy and world affairs.

Great start and ideas, still not enough to do damage to the deficit though. Taxes are going to have to go up for everyone to pay the bills that have been kicked down the road for many years and many administrations.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/dec/4/doge-sets-sights-first-low-hanging-fruit-governmen/

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Truly lol at hokie and his pals fear mongering about Putin and Russia NOW. Putin has already said he's willing to negotiate an end with Trump as president, assuming their guy doesn't start WW3 before Trump gets in office.

Seek help, TDS boys. You're pitiful. Maybe one day you'll be right with your predictions about Trump.

---

nope, I've been consistent with my position for a while now. You can ask your buddy werewolf

Trump will bring both sides to the negotiating table, and Putin will get the territory he wants, which will end the war and that is a good thing because contrary to your and others beliefs, I don't like war, but I at least acknowledge that when it is in the best interest of the US to intervene, they should. And we disagree about this stance and you resort to mocking and name calling like a child and I'm supposed to join a militia or I'm a chicken ***** It's just such a disingenuous way to argue.

So a truce will happen, I'm thankful it will end the war, but it's not going to help the standing of the US in the world and it's going to strengthen Putin, an actual really bad guy.

---

Ending the war does not hurt the US standing, nor does it strengthen Putin.

---

Putin being rewarded for militarily annexing part of an adjacent sovereign nation very clearly strengthens him in multiple ways.

The Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine is rich in coal and industrial capacity.

Russia being rewarded by invading a sovereign neighbor is a very visible success as Putin tries to reassert Russia's power and resist Western influence. It also strengthens nationalism in Russia and rallies public support at home.

Ukraine ceding land and being weakened with a loss of territory and resources makes them less of a threat to and buffer from Putin's authoritarianism.

You can say you want the war to end, but nobody can say Ukraine ceding territory isn't a clear win for Putin.

---

Ultimately, the exchange of land is the most likely outcome. That said, what other option would you propose?

---

Allowing Ukraine to continue the fight and occupy Russian territory so that they have something to negotiate with.

---

"Allowing" them? What you mean is paying for them to continue the fight.

---

LOL, essentially what's underway right now as US forces or contractors operate the guidance systems for intermediate range missiles via US satellites. Keep striking Russia homeland and Gobbler will have the World War he hopes for. Do Gobbler and Sieve actually think Putin is gullible to think we're not directly involved? Our hands are all over these sophisticated military systems.........not to mention the billions of dollars.

Gobbler never did tell us how we won the COLD WAR. He must think it was in a similar way, LOL. He doesn't know.

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Truly lol at hokie and his pals fear mongering about Putin and Russia NOW. Putin has already said he's willing to negotiate an end with Trump as president, assuming their guy doesn't start WW3 before Trump gets in office.

Seek help, TDS boys. You're pitiful. Maybe one day you'll be right with your predictions about Trump.

---

nope, I've been consistent with my position for a while now. You can ask your buddy werewolf

Trump will bring both sides to the negotiating table, and Putin will get the territory he wants, which will end the war and that is a good thing because contrary to your and others beliefs, I don't like war, but I at least acknowledge that when it is in the best interest of the US to intervene, they should. And we disagree about this stance and you resort to mocking and name calling like a child and I'm supposed to join a militia or I'm a chicken ***** It's just such a disingenuous way to argue.

So a truce will happen, I'm thankful it will end the war, but it's not going to help the standing of the US in the world and it's going to strengthen Putin, an actual really bad guy.

---

Ending the war does not hurt the US standing, nor does it strengthen Putin.

---

Putin being rewarded for militarily annexing part of an adjacent sovereign nation very clearly strengthens him in multiple ways.

The Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine is rich in coal and industrial capacity.

Russia being rewarded by invading a sovereign neighbor is a very visible success as Putin tries to reassert Russia's power and resist Western influence. It also strengthens nationalism in Russia and rallies public support at home.

Ukraine ceding land and being weakened with a loss of territory and resources makes them less of a threat to and buffer from Putin's authoritarianism.

You can say you want the war to end, but nobody can say Ukraine ceding territory isn't a clear win for Putin.

---

You think Russia is supposed to pack their bags and go home? lol. You think they're not supposed to keep the territories? Thats not going to happen.

Russia's world standing does not improve because of a US led negotiation to end the war. Nor does it weaken the US standing. You can try to twist and squirm to present a way this would be a bad ending, but you're wrong. Unless you think continuing to funnel billions of dollars to Ukraine so that hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian and Russian men can continue to die for the enrichment of 2 egotistical men is "right".

---

As is always the case, you're a complete moron.

Putin was about to lose this war, which is why he was desperately funneling in North Korean troops to keep up the fight. Thankfully his boy Trump is swooping in just in time, and is going to hand him Ukraine on a platter. Guess that explains all of those Russian bomb threats in Dem precincts.

hokiewolf said:

---

Great start and ideas, still not enough to do damage to the deficit though. Taxes are going to have to go up for everyone to pay the bills that have been kicked down the road for many years and many administrations.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/dec/4/doge-sets-sights-first-low-hanging-fruit-governmen/

---

Lol, it's so magical seeing a team of billionaires scouring the government looking for ways to squeeze the working class in order to afford another billionaire tax cut.

I'm sure the irony of unelected billionaire a-holes going after "unelected bureaucrats" is lost on everyone.

Werewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Truly lol at hokie and his pals fear mongering about Putin and Russia NOW. Putin has already said he's willing to negotiate an end with Trump as president, assuming their guy doesn't start WW3 before Trump gets in office.

Seek help, TDS boys. You're pitiful. Maybe one day you'll be right with your predictions about Trump.

---

nope, I've been consistent with my position for a while now. You can ask your buddy werewolf

Trump will bring both sides to the negotiating table, and Putin will get the territory he wants, which will end the war and that is a good thing because contrary to your and others beliefs, I don't like war, but I at least acknowledge that when it is in the best interest of the US to intervene, they should. And we disagree about this stance and you resort to mocking and name calling like a child and I'm supposed to join a militia or I'm a chicken ***** It's just such a disingenuous way to argue.

So a truce will happen, I'm thankful it will end the war, but it's not going to help the standing of the US in the world and it's going to strengthen Putin, an actual really bad guy.

---

Ending the war does not hurt the US standing, nor does it strengthen Putin.

---

Putin being rewarded for militarily annexing part of an adjacent sovereign nation very clearly strengthens him in multiple ways.

The Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine is rich in coal and industrial capacity.

Russia being rewarded by invading a sovereign neighbor is a very visible success as Putin tries to reassert Russia's power and resist Western influence. It also strengthens nationalism in Russia and rallies public support at home.

Ukraine ceding land and being weakened with a loss of territory and resources makes them less of a threat to and buffer from Putin's authoritarianism.

You can say you want the war to end, but nobody can say Ukraine ceding territory isn't a clear win for Putin.

---

Ultimately, the exchange of land is the most likely outcome. That said, what other option would you propose?

---

Allowing Ukraine to continue the fight and occupy Russian territory so that they have something to negotiate with.

---

"Allowing" them? What you mean is paying for them to continue the fight.

---

LOL, essentially what's underway right now as US forces or contractors operate the guidance systems for intermediate range missiles via US satellites. Keep striking Russia homeland and Gobbler will have the World War he hopes for. Do Gobbler and Sieve actually think Putin is gullible to think we're not directly involved? Our hands are all over these sophisticated military systems.........not to mention the billions of dollars.

Gobbler never did tell us how we won the COLD WAR. He must think it was in a similar way, LOL. He doesn't know.

---

"We must not break faith with those who are risking their lives on every continent from Afghanistan to Nicaragua to defy Soviet-supported aggression and secure rights which have been ours from birth."

This is the principle that led to the eventual collapse of the Soviet Government.

lol. First. Your clarification of "allowing them to continue the fight" is to argue that it is not "paying for them to continue the fight", it is "providing all of the weaponry and support for them to continue the fight". Solid clarification there. Haha.

Second how many more billions of dollars and loss of life do you think it will take to execute their current strategy? We're well over $60 billion and a million people dead. When is enough enough for you as someone who "doesn't like war"?

packgrad said:

---

lol. First. Your clarification of "allowing them to continue the fight" is to argue that it is not "paying for them to continue the fight", it is "providing all of the weaponry and support for them to continue the fight". Solid clarification there. Haha.

Second how many more billions of dollars and loss of life do you think it will take to execute their current strategy? We're well over $60 billion and a million people dead. When is enough enough for you as someone who "doesn't like war"?

---

When the people and government of Ukraine say enough is enough. It is up to them, it's their country.

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

lol. First. Your clarification of "allowing them to continue the fight" is to argue that it is not "paying for them to continue the fight", it is "providing all of the weaponry and support for them to continue the fight". Solid clarification there. Haha.

Second how many more billions of dollars and loss of life do you think it will take to execute their current strategy? We're well over $60 billion and a million people dead. When is enough enough for you as someone who "doesn't like war"?

---

When the people and government of Ukraine say enough is enough. It is up to them, it's their country.

---

Nah, it's the person that controls the faucet that makes that determination. They don't control the faucet. It's our country's money.

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Great start and ideas, still not enough to do damage to the deficit though. Taxes are going to have to go up for everyone to pay the bills that have been kicked down the road for many years and many administrations.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/dec/4/doge-sets-sights-first-low-hanging-fruit-governmen/

---

Lol, it's so magical seeing a team of billionaires scouring the government looking for ways to squeeze the working class in order to afford another billionaire tax cut.

I'm sure the irony of unelected billionaire a-holes going after "unelected bureaucrats" is lost on everyone.

---

did you read the article? Finding efficiencies in government and providing means (ie spend money first) to do so is a good thing. Will that lead to a reduction in employment? Yes, and that is also a good thing. Another good thing would be to improve the software, technology and customer service of the IRS.

How about not spending billions to design a US Postal Service specific last mile delivery vehicle and just use something already in the market?

All good things, but as I said, it won't be enough and taxes are still going to have to increase for everyone to pay for the rent-seeking schemes that politicians have enacted that frankly haven't helped anyone.

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

lol. First. Your clarification of "allowing them to continue the fight" is to argue that it is not "paying for them to continue the fight", it is "providing all of the weaponry and support for them to continue the fight". Solid clarification there. Haha.

Second how many more billions of dollars and loss of life do you think it will take to execute their current strategy? We're well over $60 billion and a million people dead. When is enough enough for you as someone who "doesn't like war"?

---

When the people and government of Ukraine say enough is enough. It is up to them, it's their country.

---

Nah, it's the person that controls the faucet that makes that determination. They don't control the faucet. It's our country's money.

---

"We must not break faith with those who are risking their lives on every continent from Afghanistan to Nicaragua to defy Soviet-supported aggression and secure rights which have been ours from birth."

That is still the guiding conservative principle. You think I'm a RINO but it takes one to know one I suppose.

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Great start and ideas, still not enough to do damage to the deficit though. Taxes are going to have to go up for everyone to pay the bills that have been kicked down the road for many years and many administrations.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/dec/4/doge-sets-sights-first-low-hanging-fruit-governmen/

---

Lol, it's so magical seeing a team of billionaires scouring the government looking for ways to squeeze the working class in order to afford another billionaire tax cut.

I'm sure the irony of unelected billionaire a-holes going after "unelected bureaucrats" is lost on everyone.

---

did you read the article? Finding efficiencies in government and providing means (ie spend money first) to do so is a good thing. Will that lead to a reduction in employment? Yes, and that is also a good thing. Another good thing would be to improve the software, technology and customer service of the IRS.

How about not spending billions to design a US Postal Service specific last mile delivery vehicle and just use something already in the market?

All good things, but as I said, it won't be enough and taxes are still going to have to increase for everyone to pay for the rent-seeking schemes that politicians have enacted that frankly haven't helped anyone.

---

They've signaled pretty clearly that they want to take a hatchet to Medicaid. Whether you think we can afford it or not, you don't think Medicaid has helped anyone?

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Great start and ideas, still not enough to do damage to the deficit though. Taxes are going to have to go up for everyone to pay the bills that have been kicked down the road for many years and many administrations.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/dec/4/doge-sets-sights-first-low-hanging-fruit-governmen/

---

Lol, it's so magical seeing a team of billionaires scouring the government looking for ways to squeeze the working class in order to afford another billionaire tax cut.

I'm sure the irony of unelected billionaire a-holes going after "unelected bureaucrats" is lost on everyone.

---

did you read the article? Finding efficiencies in government and providing means (ie spend money first) to do so is a good thing. Will that lead to a reduction in employment? Yes, and that is also a good thing. Another good thing would be to improve the software, technology and customer service of the IRS.

How about not spending billions to design a US Postal Service specific last mile delivery vehicle and just use something already in the market?

All good things, but as I said, it won't be enough and taxes are still going to have to increase for everyone to pay for the rent-seeking schemes that politicians have enacted that frankly haven't helped anyone.

---

They've signaled pretty clearly that they want to take a hatchet to Medicaid. Whether you think we can afford it or not, you don't think Medicaid has helped anyone?

---

They aren't going to be able to "take a hatchet" because there is little inefficiencies there to be hatcheted.

There are things that need to be done to fix inefficiencies with regulation of the healthcare industry and private insurance industry to drive down the cost of medical care and make Medicaid more efficient cost wise.

I think Vivek is smart enough to realize this as they dig into things.