SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Yeah, the more I've read about the Colorado decision, the more I disagree with that one. This is just an egregious overreach by this person. She should not be using her office for partisan political decisions like that. It's setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

---

There was a good CNN opinion piece about this this morning that I agree with.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/opinions/colorado-removes-trump-from-ballot-linker/index.html

Trump needs to be on the ballot and if he's going to get beat, beat him at the ballot box.

---

That's kinda the point. They've made it impossible for Trump to be beaten at the ballot box. If Trump loses the next election, will any conservative in the Water Cooler or nationwide respect the result? Of course not, it's simply not a possible outcome for them. Trump and the conservative establishment have moved them beyond democracy, so worrying about how they might react to this or that is a pointless exercise. Screw them.

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Yeah, the more I've read about the Colorado decision, the more I disagree with that one. This is just an egregious overreach by this person. She should not be using her office for partisan political decisions like that. It's setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

---

There was a good CNN opinion piece about this this morning that I agree with.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/opinions/colorado-removes-trump-from-ballot-linker/index.html

Trump needs to be on the ballot and if he's going to get beat, beat him at the ballot box.

---

That's kinda the point. They've made it impossible for Trump to be beaten at the ballot box. If Trump loses the next election, will any conservative in the Water Cooler or nationwide respect the result? Of course not, it's simply not a possible outcome for them. Trump and the conservative establishment have moved them beyond democracy, so worrying about how they might react to this or that is a pointless exercise. Screw them.

---

He can be beaten again just like he was in 20.

Would the fraud loons come out? Obviously. But kicking him off the ballot in what seems like a legal stretch, in states he'd lose anyway, won't do anything but throw even more chum in the loony pool for the loony sharks to go ape **** over.

I doubt these decisions to keep him off the ballot will survive appeal and even the effort to get trump jettisoned from the ballot will further strengthen his support so these attempts are strategic losers.

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Yeah, the more I've read about the Colorado decision, the more I disagree with that one. This is just an egregious overreach by this person. She should not be using her office for partisan political decisions like that. It's setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

---

It's worth discussing the precise nature of that danger. The 2020 shenanigans deniers notwithstanding, a repeat of that election could all too easily fuel secessionist tendencies throughout the country, and nowhere are they stronger than in Texas, the tenth largest economy in the world.

---

yeah, that fever dream ain't happening. But creating confusion for a 2024 election that will already be problematic is a turrible strategy whether you are far left or far right.

---

I agree with this take. The secession/civil war talk is just straight nonsense. Hell, just ask Britain how its going post Brexit and they were way better prepared for that type of scenario than any single state in the US

---

It's been nonsense. Past tense. Things are changing. We shouldn't have millions of aliens invading but we do. We shouldn't have 33 trillion in debt and rising but we do. Sovereign debt crises loom. Crime is sky rocketing to levels heretofore not seen. Global alliances are shifting, and enemies of this country are in high gear working to undermine us in a myriad of ways, particularly with the ditching of the petrodollar. Blue states are going hard in one direction, red in the other. If you think a national disintegration scenario is totally implausible, the floor is yours, make your case.

---

Simple. Remember CHOP/CHAZ in Seattle in 2020? It lasted just a few weeks with a sympathetic city/local/state government. Now imagine a single level of hostility from any level of government and its over. Even if you scale it up to a state like Texas, they would still collapse, it would just take a bit longer.

This isn't a government positive response from my end. It's a house of cards at all levels and remove any of them, and the infrastructure falls. The only reason the British haven't suffered this fate yet is that they weren't on the Euro when they voted themselves out of the EU.

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Yeah, the more I've read about the Colorado decision, the more I disagree with that one. This is just an egregious overreach by this person. She should not be using her office for partisan political decisions like that. It's setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

---

There was a good CNN opinion piece about this this morning that I agree with.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/opinions/colorado-removes-trump-from-ballot-linker/index.html

Trump needs to be on the ballot and if he's going to get beat, beat him at the ballot box.

---

That's kinda the point. They've made it impossible for Trump to be beaten at the ballot box. If Trump loses the next election, will any conservative in the Water Cooler or nationwide respect the result? Of course not, it's simply not a possible outcome for them. Trump and the conservative establishment have moved them beyond democracy, so worrying about how they might react to this or that is a pointless exercise. Screw them.

---

He can be beaten again just like he was in 20.

Would the fraud loons come out? Obviously. But kicking him off the ballot in what seems like a legal stretch, in states he'd lose anyway, won't do anything but throw even more chum in the loony pool for the loony sharks to go ape **** over.

I doubt these decisions to keep him off the ballot will survive appeal and even the effort to get trump jettisoned from the ballot will further strengthen his support so these attempts are strategic losers.

---

I agree that it's probably much ado about nothing, given that almost by definition any state that would throw Trump off the ballot is a state he wouldn't have won, anyway. I'm sure the Supreme Court will find a way to toss this out, though, but I don't think it's as much of a legal stretch as some think... the whole thing just seems absurd because a President and his horde engaging in insurrection to stay in power was absurd in the first place, and Trump is racing for reelection before an actual reckoning for that comes.

It is kinda fun to imagine how things might be now if the roles were reversed, if BLM had stormed the Capitol on Jan 6 to prevent Trump's certification. Assuming the country wasn't already under permanent martial law or something, I wonder if they would think twice about using clearly spelled out language in the constitution to prevent Dem insurrectionists from running for office again. I wonder if their supporters would wring their hands and second guess themselves based on how mad we might be about it.

---

More broadly it's hilarious to pick any one of the dozens of impossibly crazy things Trump has done or said over the last eight years and imagine how Trump worshipers would react if Biden did the same thing, and then those of us that voted for Biden tried to gaslight them and act like it wasn't a problem.

Can you imagine if Biden was accused of sex assaulting more than two dozen women and had been found liable for sex assault?

Can you imagine if it looked like Biden may lose the election so he started preemptively saying the only way he could lose would be if Pubs cheated, and then repeated that lie thousands of times with no evidence to support his claims, and then 70% of Democrats starting parroting Biden and claiming the election was stolen?

Can you imagine if eight or ten of Biden's closest circle of attorneys and advisers went to prison, or would have if Biden didn't pardon them, for an array of crimes relating to election-related communications with Russia?

Can you imagine if Biden would not commit to a peaceful transition of power when asked repeatedly if he would?

Can you imagine if Biden left office with a bunch of classified nuclear docs, claimed that he declassified them when he didn't, tossed them in the bathroom and conference room at his golf course, braggadociously divulged those secrets on tape to political groupies, lied to the fuzz about the docs being returned, and ultimately had to have the docs forcibly removed from his possession?

Can you imagine if Biden lost the election and started pressuring elections officials, legislators, and even Kamala Harris to not certify the election result in an attempt to stay in power?

Can you imagine if Biden encouraged his worshipers to come fight for their country on January 6 and they show up and mobbed the Capital in an attempt to obstruct the election certification, and Biden silently watched the mob for hours in tacit support of their actions?

The right would be absolutely unglued about any of these occurrences, much less all of them.

The irony of course is that if Biden did any of these things what Pubs did or didn't do would be moot because he would be jettisoned from future consideration for office by his own party, whereas most Pubs are indignantly championing a sex- and election- and democracy-attacking probable felon to be the next President.

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Yeah, the more I've read about the Colorado decision, the more I disagree with that one. This is just an egregious overreach by this person. She should not be using her office for partisan political decisions like that. It's setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

---

It's worth discussing the precise nature of that danger. The 2020 shenanigans deniers notwithstanding, a repeat of that election could all too easily fuel secessionist tendencies throughout the country, and nowhere are they stronger than in Texas, the tenth largest economy in the world.

---

yeah, that fever dream ain't happening. But creating confusion for a 2024 election that will already be problematic is a turrible strategy whether you are far left or far right.

---

I agree with this take. The secession/civil war talk is just straight nonsense. Hell, just ask Britain how its going post Brexit and they were way better prepared for that type of scenario than any single state in the US

---

It's been nonsense. Past tense. Things are changing. We shouldn't have millions of aliens invading but we do. We shouldn't have 33 trillion in debt and rising but we do. Sovereign debt crises loom. Crime is sky rocketing to levels heretofore not seen. Global alliances are shifting, and enemies of this country are in high gear working to undermine us in a myriad of ways, particularly with the ditching of the petrodollar. Blue states are going hard in one direction, red in the other. If you think a national disintegration scenario is totally implausible, the floor is yours, make your case.

---

Simple. Remember CHOP/CHAZ in Seattle in 2020? It lasted just a few weeks with a sympathetic city/local/state government. Now imagine a single level of hostility from any level of government and its over. Even if you scale it up to a state like Texas, they would still collapse, it would just take a bit longer.

This isn't a government positive response from my end. It's a house of cards at all levels and remove any of them, and the infrastructure falls. The only reason the British haven't suffered this fate yet is that they weren't on the Euro when they voted themselves out of the EU.

---

Sovereign currency does indeed matter. Certain Texas legislators have taken note. Sound money legislation passed there is the first step.

---

packgrad said:

---

So
Much
TDS.

Why do you keep lying? It's unbecoming.

There literally WAS a peaceful transfer of power, but TDS boys say he didn't commit to a peaceful transfer of power.

Mentally ill.

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

FlossyDFlynt said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Yeah, the more I've read about the Colorado decision, the more I disagree with that one. This is just an egregious overreach by this person. She should not be using her office for partisan political decisions like that. It's setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

---

It's worth discussing the precise nature of that danger. The 2020 shenanigans deniers notwithstanding, a repeat of that election could all too easily fuel secessionist tendencies throughout the country, and nowhere are they stronger than in Texas, the tenth largest economy in the world.

---

yeah, that fever dream ain't happening. But creating confusion for a 2024 election that will already be problematic is a turrible strategy whether you are far left or far right.

---

I agree with this take. The secession/civil war talk is just straight nonsense. Hell, just ask Britain how its going post Brexit and they were way better prepared for that type of scenario than any single state in the US

---

It's been nonsense. Past tense. Things are changing. We shouldn't have millions of aliens invading but we do. We shouldn't have 33 trillion in debt and rising but we do. Sovereign debt crises loom. Crime is sky rocketing to levels heretofore not seen. Global alliances are shifting, and enemies of this country are in high gear working to undermine us in a myriad of ways, particularly with the ditching of the petrodollar. Blue states are going hard in one direction, red in the other. If you think a national disintegration scenario is totally implausible, the floor is yours, make your case.

---

Simple. Remember CHOP/CHAZ in Seattle in 2020? It lasted just a few weeks with a sympathetic city/local/state government. Now imagine a single level of hostility from any level of government and its over. Even if you scale it up to a state like Texas, they would still collapse, it would just take a bit longer.

This isn't a government positive response from my end. It's a house of cards at all levels and remove any of them, and the infrastructure falls. The only reason the British haven't suffered this fate yet is that they weren't on the Euro when they voted themselves out of the EU.

---

Sovereign currency does indeed matter. Certain Texas legislators have taken note. Sound money legislation passed there is the first step.

---

I think people also underestimate how much federal money is intertwined with the states budget. Why hasnt any state lowered the drinking age since 1988? Because they dont want to lose their 10% highway maintenance budget from the federal government. Becoming financially independent from federal subsidies would bankrupt every state, it would just be a matter of how quickly.

In short, I just dont see how it would be viable without some sort of massive foreign entity funding it. That sure as hell isnt a path either side would want to go down.

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Weird stance to take.

---

caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Weird stance to take.

---

It's not my stance; but, why is it weird?

---

packgrad said:

---

TDS is a mental illness.

" Let Biden start doing openly crazy, unpresidential, illegal **** and watch the fireworks"

Start!?!?!? Lolol.

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

Weird stance to take.

---

It's not my stance; but, why is it weird?

---

Because his supporters view these people as the enemy and rightfully so, but it sounds like Trump is sucking up to them and he should know better. But his record of endorsements and hires being what they are, this maybe isn't surprising.

---

packgrad said:

---

TDS is a mental illness.

" Let Biden start doing openly crazy, unpresidential, illegal **** and watch the fireworks"

Start!?!?!? Lolol.

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

TDS is a mental illness.

" Let Biden start doing openly crazy, unpresidential, illegal **** and watch the fireworks"

Start!?!?!? Lolol.

---

Zzzzzzzzzz

Do us both a favor then and find some receipts and impeach or indict him.

That way the Dems can run someone against Trump that can win.

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

TDS is a mental illness.

" Let Biden start doing openly crazy, unpresidential, illegal **** and watch the fireworks"

Start!?!?!? Lolol.

---

Zzzzzzzzzz

Do us both a favor then and find some receipts and impeach or indict him.

That way the Dems can run someone against Trump that can win.

---

Since when did you start thinking Trump is unstoppable?

---

Civilized said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

TDS is a mental illness.

" Let Biden start doing openly crazy, unpresidential, illegal **** and watch the fireworks"

Start!?!?!? Lolol.

---

Zzzzzzzzzz

Do us both a favor then and find some receipts and impeach or indict him.

That way the Dems can run someone against Trump that can win.

---

Since when did you start thinking Trump is unstoppable?

---

Not unstoppable but it's been apparent for some time Biden is electorally weaker than he was in 2020 and Trump polls well against him in 2024 projections. Polls are polls.

I do think Biden will close on Trump as the heterogeneous left coalesces around the need to avoid Trump 2.0.

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Oldsouljer said:

---

Civilized said:

---

packgrad said:

---

TDS is a mental illness.

" Let Biden start doing openly crazy, unpresidential, illegal **** and watch the fireworks"

Start!?!?!? Lolol.

---

Zzzzzzzzzz

Do us both a favor then and find some receipts and impeach or indict him.

That way the Dems can run someone against Trump that can win.

---

Since when did you start thinking Trump is unstoppable?

---

Not unstoppable but it's been apparent for some time Biden is electorally weaker than he was in 2020 and Trump polls well against him in 2024 projections. Polls are polls.

I do think Biden will close on Trump as the heterogeneous left coalesces around the need to avoid Trump 2.0.

---

Polls are polls and can mean anything. Personally, I think polls this far out are more honest than the ones coming next year, because the purpose of this years' polls are to warn, the purpose of next year's polls are to manipulate public perception. As for Biden, his real problem is the misery index and that has to improve in 2024….

---

"Why aren't they investigating the people that cheated???" pic.twitter.com/HWOKX0vbz6

— ULTRA MAGA PARTY 👑 (@MaxEvansUMP) December 26, 2023

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

packgrad said:

---

TDS is a mental illness.

" Let Biden start doing openly crazy, unpresidential, illegal **** and watch the fireworks"

Start!?!?!? Lolol.

---

Civ appears to be a smart guy; however, his insistence that we didn't have a peaceful transfer of power is so naive and bought into some narrative that's just STUDIP!

---

Notwithstanding the willful ignorance of you and packgrad ignoring Trump's multiple indignant refusals to underscore the necessity of a peaceful transition in the runup to January 6 and the violence on January 6, it's also dripping in irony that the only reason we had a transition of power at all is because Trump didn't succeed at illegally (objection) coercing his cronies to overturn the election.

But somehow his unprecedented and illegal electoral conduct is fine and it's the complainers that are the actual problem.

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

packgrad said:

---

TDS is a mental illness.

" Let Biden start doing openly crazy, unpresidential, illegal **** and watch the fireworks"

Start!?!?!? Lolol.

---

Civ appears to be a smart guy; however, his insistence that we didn't have a peaceful transfer of power is so naive and bought into some narrative that's just STUDIP!

---

Notwithstanding the willful ignorance of you and packgrad ignoring Trump's multiple indignant refusals to underscore the necessity of a peaceful transition in the runup to January 6 and the violence on January 6, it's also dripping in irony that the only reason we had a transition of power at all is because Trump didn't succeed at illegally (objection) coercing his cronies to overturn the election.

But somehow his unprecedented and illegal electoral conduct is fine and it's the complainers that are the actual problem.

---

Civ, based on your comments, I'd love to be on the other side negotiating a business transaction, with you. A person always uses every tactic they can, in order to win!!

You and I disagree on the following…

Trump believes the election was errored in a big way
Several State legislators sent letters for their electors to be sent back for 10 days
Pence chose not to do that
Transfer of power

I know you have questioned his sincerity on the election and think he did it to retain power. Well, you and I disagree! I don't like losing! I will keep pushing until I realize nothing more can be done.

Oh and BTW, your bolded is a perfect example of transfer of power…

---