Lol, I've got to admit "were"... that was pretty damn good.

TheStorm said:

---

Lol, I've got to admit "were"... that was pretty damn good.

---

Glad you enjoyed it. I was checking this morning as I was expecting to have riled you with the hRC clip. LOL

Biden is our Manchurian Candidate...........and as Abraham Lincoln composed.

Below is NOT a history lesson.


This short missive is a lesson in realitythe reality now smacking us across our heads like a 2X4.

In 1838, at the age of 28, Abraham Lincoln gave an address to a group of young men gathered in Springfield, Illinois.

His speech was titled "The Perpetuation of Our Political Institutions."

The specific topic of Lincoln's speech was citizenship in a constitutional republic and threats to U.S. institutions.

In the speech, Lincoln discussed in glowing terms the political regime established by the Founding Fathers, but warned of a destructive force from within.

He said:

"Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never!

All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted), in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years."

Lincoln then asked the audience (this is the important part):

"At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected?"

Lincoln answered his own question:

"If it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
__________
If Lincoln could see this at the ripe old age of 28, nearly 185 years ago, why can't a large chunk of American citizens not see this?

Our nation's "destruction" is NOT due to overseas threats, it's principally due to our own complacency as citizens.

For our constitutional republic to prevail, for our institutions to NOT collapse from within, citizens must get involved.

I implore those that read this, to discuss with your families, your churches, your local clubs, your communities, your elected officials, any willing to listen, that the time is now to recognize what President Lincoln stated 22 years before he became POTUS, that our demise will NOT be from without, but from within.

In his well known and eloquent oratory style, Lincoln was reminding those attending his speech that Local Action as citizens mattered then as it matters now.

The time is now to stand up, step up, and speak up!

Al Biden. That's bises right there. Osama Bin Biden.Kamala Hamas. Oh, he's got jokes! But seriously, no lie detected. 💥💥💥 pic.twitter.com/Wsem01k6xB

— Sassafrass84 (@Sassafrass_84) November 2, 2023

Oops.....wrong thread ;-)

🎶Here comes the sun…🎶 pic.twitter.com/veQWgVVg94

— Cowboyw2b (@Cowboyw2b2) November 9, 2023

You know, this is just too easy… could it be this was a setup, of a story, the whole time?

🚨 JUST IN: Photos of the cocaine found in the White House have been released

The drug was found in a highly secure area of the White House accessible only to top-level staffers and direct guests of the President, including the first family.

The Secret Service suspended their… pic.twitter.com/ppmu0grxMt

— Nick Sortor (@nicksortor) November 13, 2023

https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-bashed-claiming-see-economy-eyes-scranton-not-wall-street-economy-sucks

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

Civ, those are all reasonable question. Perhaps you could give us your answers. Hell, we might agree on most…

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

Civ, those are all reasonable question. Perhaps you could give us your answers. Hell, we might agree on most…

---

Given the number of calories you guys burn raging about Biden, aren't these questions you should be able to answer for yourself easily?

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

Civ, those are all reasonable question. Perhaps you could give us your answers. Hell, we might agree on most…

---

Yeah I'm not the one acting like this economy is the worst evarrrr so I think these questions should be answered by those that think the Biden economy stinks because of him.

First I don't think presidents have as much of an economic effect as partisans try to convince you they do (good or bad).

Second Biden was dealt a chicken **** economy that was in the tank as his starting point. To be clear this wasn't Trump's fault, but nor was it Biden's.

Could you argue the third round of stimulus was one round too much? Yeah but that response was perfectly understandable after most economists agreeing Great Recession stimulus was too slow and too little.

Could you argue inflation is his fault? Yeah but that's a half-ass argument. Inflation spiked all around the world post-COVID and our inflation is in line (actually a little better then) most other developed nations. The Fed has wrestled inflation back down to 3% and it's probably better than that because housing metrics trail. Would Trump or anyone else significantly outperformed Biden or the rest of the world?

What else? Stock market is fine, not that that's really his doing.

Real estate market is slowing down markedly due to the Fed's rising rates to get inflation under control but that's after several years of gangbusters growth and easy money. I don't love the RE slowdown, it's pinching me personally since there are very few buyers in the market. We've got product sitting on market for months longer than previously but that problem's not going to persist forever. The market will come back and real estate is a long game anyway; you can't time the market, you've got to dollar-cost average your ventures long term.

Wage growth especially for low income workers is up markedly which is long overdue.

GDP has fully recovered from the COVID dip and is higher even than pre-COVID projections.

I'm sure there are things to complain about because everything can't be optimized at the same time but from 30k feet there's a lot going right with the economy.

But again, fundamentally, just like QB's presidents get too much credit for a good economy and too much blame for a bad one.

And the back n forth on-line bickering will continue for a bit longer......and then out of right field came....

According to FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr, the Biden administration is planning to hand the administrative state 'effective control of all internet services.' Team Biden claims this for ‘digital equity’, but if all this is true, it could be the END of free speech online. pic.twitter.com/3xbwPcJUin

— Glenn Beck (@glennbeck) November 7, 2023

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

Civ, those are all reasonable question. Perhaps you could give us your answers. Hell, we might agree on most…

---

Yeah I'm not the one acting like this economy is the worst evarrrr so I think these questions should be answered by those that think the Biden economy stinks because of him.

First I don't think presidents have as much of an economic effect as partisans try to convince you they do (good or bad).

Second Biden was dealt a chicken **** economy that was in the tank as his starting point. To be clear this wasn't Trump's fault, but nor was it Biden's.

Could you argue the third round of stimulus was one round too much? Yeah but that response was perfectly understandable after most economists agreeing Great Recession stimulus was too slow and too little.

Could you argue inflation is his fault? Yeah but that's a half-ass argument. Inflation spiked all around the world post-COVID and our inflation is in line (actually a little better then) most other developed nations. The Fed has wrestled inflation back down to 3% and it's probably better than that because housing metrics trail. Would Trump or anyone else significantly outperformed Biden or the rest of the world?

What else? Stock market is fine, not that that's really his doing.

Real estate market is slowing down markedly due to the Fed's rising rates to get inflation under control but that's after several years of gangbusters growth and easy money. I don't love the RE slowdown, it's pinching me personally since there are very few buyers in the market. We've got product sitting on market for months longer than previously but that problem's not going to persist forever. The market will come back and real estate is a long game anyway; you can't time the market, you've got to dollar-cost average your ventures long term.

Wage growth especially for low income workers is up markedly which is long overdue.

GDP has fully recovered from the COVID dip and is higher even than pre-COVID projections.

I'm sure there are things to complain about because everything can't be optimized at the same time but from 30k feet there's a lot going right with the economy.

But again, fundamentally, just like QB's presidents get too much credit for a good economy and too much blame for a bad one.

---

Should be mentioned that between Biden's infrastructure law and CHIPS act, the U.S. is currently experiencing a manufacturing boom, with levels of private sector manufacturing investment that have surprised even the Biden Admin. It's creating a boatload of jobs in rural America. Trump liked to cosplay being a Dem and pretended to care about manufacturing and infrastructure... Biden is actually making it happen.

As a bonus, the infrastructure law incentivizes free market investment to actually tackle climate change, rather than leaning on penalties or other coercion... the first significant step our country has managed to take to get real about climate change. Manchin was pissed.

Another bonus, the CHIPS act lays the groundwork for the long process of building our own advanced chips, a national security issue that we should have addressed long ago. Our global economy shouldn't have a single point of failure in Taiwan.

Between that stuff and Biden's foreign policy Master Class, I have no idea what people could possibly be up in arms about... unless you just hate continuing to be a superpower. And it's not like Trump isn't as old as dirt also. I guess that's why they have to invent ridiculous conspiracies (as always) to make the outrage possible.

A mantra of the Biden presidency, global stability. Wars raging........just not everywhere as of yet. Great job #thesieve and #thejoker..

Biden and Xi also discussed artificial intelligence, wars in Ukraine and Middle East, and Taiwan - per senior Biden admin official pic.twitter.com/GgwXEkSZWE

— Jacqui Heinrich (@JacquiHeinrich) November 16, 2023

He will have served his purpose soon. Expecting him to disappear somehow before late spring or summer.

Did Biden fall AGAIN??? pic.twitter.com/6wGssvi9rC

— Jeff Rose 🇺🇸 (@JeffRoseTV) November 15, 2023

Did Biden have an ear piece! https://t.co/HrQSr7tnrP

— Deplorable Veteran Trumps With You ❌ (@trumpswithyou) November 16, 2023

Werewolf said:

---

Did Biden have an ear piece! https://t.co/HrQSr7tnrP

— Deplorable Veteran Trumps With You ❌ (@trumpswithyou) November 16, 2023

---

Yes he had an earpiece, moron. That's how you have a conversation with someone who doesn't speak English.

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

/crickets

This is gold

HOLY SHIT!!!🤣🤣🤣

Shopping during Bidenomics!!!

Whoever made THIS👇🏼 FREAKING ROCKS!!!😆😂 pic.twitter.com/g6TB3K29nM

— SaltyGoat (@SaltyGoat17) November 13, 2023

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

Civ, those are all reasonable question. Perhaps you could give us your answers. Hell, we might agree on most…

---

Yeah I'm not the one acting like this economy is the worst evarrrr so I think these questions should be answered by those that think the Biden economy stinks because of him.

First I don't think presidents have as much of an economic effect as partisans try to convince you they do (good or bad).

Second Biden was dealt a chicken **** economy that was in the tank as his starting point. To be clear this wasn't Trump's fault, but nor was it Biden's.

Could you argue the third round of stimulus was one round too much? Yeah but that response was perfectly understandable after most economists agreeing Great Recession stimulus was too slow and too little.

Could you argue inflation is his fault? Yeah but that's a half-ass argument. Inflation spiked all around the world post-COVID and our inflation is in line (actually a little better then) most other developed nations. The Fed has wrestled inflation back down to 3% and it's probably better than that because housing metrics trail. Would Trump or anyone else significantly outperformed Biden or the rest of the world?

What else? Stock market is fine, not that that's really his doing.

Real estate market is slowing down markedly due to the Fed's rising rates to get inflation under control but that's after several years of gangbusters growth and easy money. I don't love the RE slowdown, it's pinching me personally since there are very few buyers in the market. We've got product sitting on market for months longer than previously but that problem's not going to persist forever. The market will come back and real estate is a long game anyway; you can't time the market, you've got to dollar-cost average your ventures long term.

Wage growth especially for low income workers is up markedly which is long overdue.

GDP has fully recovered from the COVID dip and is higher even than pre-COVID projections.

I'm sure there are things to complain about because everything can't be optimized at the same time but from 30k feet there's a lot going right with the economy.

But again, fundamentally, just like QB's presidents get too much credit for a good economy and too much blame for a bad one.

---

Should be mentioned that between Biden's infrastructure law and CHIPS act, the U.S. is currently experiencing a manufacturing boom, with levels of private sector manufacturing investment that have surprised even the Biden Admin. It's creating a boatload of jobs in rural America. Trump liked to cosplay being a Dem and pretended to care about manufacturing and infrastructure... Biden is actually making it happen.

As a bonus, the infrastructure law incentivizes free market investment to actually tackle climate change, rather than leaning on penalties or other coercion... the first significant step our country has managed to take to get real about climate change. Manchin was pissed.

Another bonus, the CHIPS act lays the groundwork for the long process of building our own advanced chips, a national security issue that we should have addressed long ago. Our global economy shouldn't have a single point of failure in Taiwan.

Between that stuff and Biden's foreign policy Master Class, I have no idea what people could possibly be up in arms about... unless you just hate continuing to be a superpower. And it's not like Trump isn't as old as dirt also. I guess that's why they have to invent ridiculous conspiracies (as always) to make the outrage possible.

---

Biden's two biggest positives to me are that he's surrounded himself (aside from Kamala, who is really more a figurehead than an adviser) with pro strategists and advisers and that his team has been quite effectual at spearheading legislation and EO's.

You can easily disagree with Biden's stances on issues but you can't say at this point his team has struggled to govern the way that his predecessor did.

You'd asked previously what I disagree with Biden on; if I'm critiquing Biden his single biggest misstep was the cluster-**** Afghanistan withdrawal.

I think his most rad-lib attempt was student loan forgiveness, an effort which ironically was regressive as hell and also didn't address the underlying huge problem that is cheap federal student loans driving up the cost of higher education in the first place.

As mentioned though, my biggest issue with him is a trope that's definitely been overblown by the right but is still a problem (and is with Trump too) - that being his age. It's not even so much that I think he's senile (he's not) or simply unable to withstand the physical rigors of the position (he is, albeit with some literal and metaphorical stumbles) or that I think he'll die in office (while scary, the likelihood is quite small).

It's that whatever he can do, however sharp he is, however vibrant he is, a 50-year-old would be even moreso and with hopefully more free thought and less prone to the group-think that has to take hold when you've been a career politician for the last 50 years. There's a reason (really, multiple reasons) why like six or eight Fortune 100 CEO's are over 70 and something like 1 or 2 are over age 80.

At this point the Dems are def rolling with Biden. We'll see how the rest shakes out, between Trump possibly being tried for or already convicted of a felony when the election rolls around combined with the unclear impact of a real RFK Jr. run.

packgrad said:

---

This is gold

HOLY SHIT!!!🤣🤣🤣

Shopping during Bidenomics!!!

Whoever made THIS👇🏼 FREAKING ROCKS!!!😆😂 pic.twitter.com/g6TB3K29nM

— SaltyGoat (@SaltyGoat17) November 13, 2023

---

He didn't ask if she wanted to round up?

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

Civ, those are all reasonable question. Perhaps you could give us your answers. Hell, we might agree on most…

---

Yeah I'm not the one acting like this economy is the worst evarrrr so I think these questions should be answered by those that think the Biden economy stinks because of him.

First I don't think presidents have as much of an economic effect as partisans try to convince you they do (good or bad).

Second Biden was dealt a chicken **** economy that was in the tank as his starting point. To be clear this wasn't Trump's fault, but nor was it Biden's.

Could you argue the third round of stimulus was one round too much? Yeah but that response was perfectly understandable after most economists agreeing Great Recession stimulus was too slow and too little.

Could you argue inflation is his fault? Yeah but that's a half-ass argument. Inflation spiked all around the world post-COVID and our inflation is in line (actually a little better then) most other developed nations. The Fed has wrestled inflation back down to 3% and it's probably better than that because housing metrics trail. Would Trump or anyone else significantly outperformed Biden or the rest of the world?

What else? Stock market is fine, not that that's really his doing.

Real estate market is slowing down markedly due to the Fed's rising rates to get inflation under control but that's after several years of gangbusters growth and easy money. I don't love the RE slowdown, it's pinching me personally since there are very few buyers in the market. We've got product sitting on market for months longer than previously but that problem's not going to persist forever. The market will come back and real estate is a long game anyway; you can't time the market, you've got to dollar-cost average your ventures long term.

Wage growth especially for low income workers is up markedly which is long overdue.

GDP has fully recovered from the COVID dip and is higher even than pre-COVID projections.

I'm sure there are things to complain about because everything can't be optimized at the same time but from 30k feet there's a lot going right with the economy.

But again, fundamentally, just like QB's presidents get too much credit for a good economy and too much blame for a bad one.

---

Should be mentioned that between Biden's infrastructure law and CHIPS act, the U.S. is currently experiencing a manufacturing boom, with levels of private sector manufacturing investment that have surprised even the Biden Admin. It's creating a boatload of jobs in rural America. Trump liked to cosplay being a Dem and pretended to care about manufacturing and infrastructure... Biden is actually making it happen.

As a bonus, the infrastructure law incentivizes free market investment to actually tackle climate change, rather than leaning on penalties or other coercion... the first significant step our country has managed to take to get real about climate change. Manchin was pissed.

Another bonus, the CHIPS act lays the groundwork for the long process of building our own advanced chips, a national security issue that we should have addressed long ago. Our global economy shouldn't have a single point of failure in Taiwan.

Between that stuff and Biden's foreign policy Master Class, I have no idea what people could possibly be up in arms about... unless you just hate continuing to be a superpower. And it's not like Trump isn't as old as dirt also. I guess that's why they have to invent ridiculous conspiracies (as always) to make the outrage possible.

---

Biden's two biggest positives to me are that he's surrounded himself (aside from Kamala, who is really more a figurehead than an adviser) with pro strategists and advisers and that his team has been quite effectual at spearheading legislation and EO's.

You can easily disagree with Biden's stances on issues but you can't say at this point his team has struggled to govern the way that his predecessor did.

You'd asked previously what I disagree with Biden on; if I'm critiquing Biden his single biggest misstep was the cluster-**** Afghanistan withdrawal.

I think his most rad-lib attempt was student loan forgiveness, an effort which ironically was regressive as hell and also didn't address the underlying huge problem that is cheap federal student loans driving up the cost of higher education in the first place.

As mentioned though, my biggest issue with him is a trope that's definitely been overblown by the right but is still a problem (and is with Trump too) - that being his age. It's not even so much that I think he's senile (he's not) or simply unable to withstand the physical rigors of the position (he is, albeit with some literal and metaphorical stumbles) or that I think he'll die in office (while scary, the likelihood is quite small).

It's that whatever he can do, however sharp he is, however vibrant he is, a 50-year-old would be even moreso and with hopefully more free thought and less prone to the group-think that has to take hold when you've been a career politician for the last 50 years. There's a reason (really, multiple reasons) why like six or eight Fortune 100 CEO's are over 70 and something like 1 or 2 are over age 80.

At this point the Dems are def rolling with Biden. We'll see how the rest shakes out, between Trump possibly being tried for or already convicted of a felony when the election rolls around combined with the unclear impact of a real RFK Jr. run.

---

Yeah, the student loan thing could definitely have been better thought out.

The Afghanistan withdraw is one that I don't get at all, though. Obviously right wingers wanted to paint it as badly as possible, and our media in general created a frankly bizarre avalanche trying to prevent withdrawal at all. But the fact that Biden endured the political pressure and got us out of there is a profound sign of character. The last couple presidents simply didn't have the spine. And the fact is Trump had already promised the Taliban that the country was theirs and drawn down our forces to a point where staying wasn't possible anyway. Our time was up.

That being the case, did anyone honestly think pulling out would be easy peasy? Outside of the awful bombing that killed 13 soldiers, I can't see how it could have gone better. We got a ton of people out very quickly. Of course if Biden had pulled everyone out gradually 6 months prior he would have been blasted for showing no confidence in the Afghan government we'd spent 20 years propping up and ensuring their collapse. But the government quickly collapsed anyway, because it was always a mirage... which is of course why we had no business staying there a minute longer.

Are there things you think they should have done differently?

As far as his age, it's funny... given how foreign policy has suddenly become a huge issue, I'm actually very happy we've got a guy in there with FIFTY years of foreign policy experience. The dude knows what he's doing, knows every world leader well, and commands respect. Here's a quote from frickin' Putin after they met a couple years ago: "Biden is a professional, and you have to be very careful in working with him to make sure you don't miss anything. He doesn't miss anything, I can assure you." I'll take that any day over some 50 year old who's barely been out of the country.

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

Civ, those are all reasonable question. Perhaps you could give us your answers. Hell, we might agree on most…

---

Yeah I'm not the one acting like this economy is the worst evarrrr so I think these questions should be answered by those that think the Biden economy stinks because of him.

First I don't think presidents have as much of an economic effect as partisans try to convince you they do (good or bad).

Second Biden was dealt a chicken **** economy that was in the tank as his starting point. To be clear this wasn't Trump's fault, but nor was it Biden's.

Could you argue the third round of stimulus was one round too much? Yeah but that response was perfectly understandable after most economists agreeing Great Recession stimulus was too slow and too little.

Could you argue inflation is his fault? Yeah but that's a half-ass argument. Inflation spiked all around the world post-COVID and our inflation is in line (actually a little better then) most other developed nations. The Fed has wrestled inflation back down to 3% and it's probably better than that because housing metrics trail. Would Trump or anyone else significantly outperformed Biden or the rest of the world?

What else? Stock market is fine, not that that's really his doing.

Real estate market is slowing down markedly due to the Fed's rising rates to get inflation under control but that's after several years of gangbusters growth and easy money. I don't love the RE slowdown, it's pinching me personally since there are very few buyers in the market. We've got product sitting on market for months longer than previously but that problem's not going to persist forever. The market will come back and real estate is a long game anyway; you can't time the market, you've got to dollar-cost average your ventures long term.

Wage growth especially for low income workers is up markedly which is long overdue.

GDP has fully recovered from the COVID dip and is higher even than pre-COVID projections.

I'm sure there are things to complain about because everything can't be optimized at the same time but from 30k feet there's a lot going right with the economy.

But again, fundamentally, just like QB's presidents get too much credit for a good economy and too much blame for a bad one.

---

Should be mentioned that between Biden's infrastructure law and CHIPS act, the U.S. is currently experiencing a manufacturing boom, with levels of private sector manufacturing investment that have surprised even the Biden Admin. It's creating a boatload of jobs in rural America. Trump liked to cosplay being a Dem and pretended to care about manufacturing and infrastructure... Biden is actually making it happen.

As a bonus, the infrastructure law incentivizes free market investment to actually tackle climate change, rather than leaning on penalties or other coercion... the first significant step our country has managed to take to get real about climate change. Manchin was pissed.

Another bonus, the CHIPS act lays the groundwork for the long process of building our own advanced chips, a national security issue that we should have addressed long ago. Our global economy shouldn't have a single point of failure in Taiwan.

Between that stuff and Biden's foreign policy Master Class, I have no idea what people could possibly be up in arms about... unless you just hate continuing to be a superpower. And it's not like Trump isn't as old as dirt also. I guess that's why they have to invent ridiculous conspiracies (as always) to make the outrage possible.

---

Biden's two biggest positives to me are that he's surrounded himself (aside from Kamala, who is really more a figurehead than an adviser) with pro strategists and advisers and that his team has been quite effectual at spearheading legislation and EO's.

You can easily disagree with Biden's stances on issues but you can't say at this point his team has struggled to govern the way that his predecessor did.

You'd asked previously what I disagree with Biden on; if I'm critiquing Biden his single biggest misstep was the cluster-**** Afghanistan withdrawal.

I think his most rad-lib attempt was student loan forgiveness, an effort which ironically was regressive as hell and also didn't address the underlying huge problem that is cheap federal student loans driving up the cost of higher education in the first place.

As mentioned though, my biggest issue with him is a trope that's definitely been overblown by the right but is still a problem (and is with Trump too) - that being his age. It's not even so much that I think he's senile (he's not) or simply unable to withstand the physical rigors of the position (he is, albeit with some literal and metaphorical stumbles) or that I think he'll die in office (while scary, the likelihood is quite small).

It's that whatever he can do, however sharp he is, however vibrant he is, a 50-year-old would be even moreso and with hopefully more free thought and less prone to the group-think that has to take hold when you've been a career politician for the last 50 years. There's a reason (really, multiple reasons) why like six or eight Fortune 100 CEO's are over 70 and something like 1 or 2 are over age 80.

At this point the Dems are def rolling with Biden. We'll see how the rest shakes out, between Trump possibly being tried for or already convicted of a felony when the election rolls around combined with the unclear impact of a real RFK Jr. run.

---

Yeah, the student loan thing could definitely have been better thought out.

The Afghanistan withdraw is one that I don't get at all, though. Obviously right wingers wanted to paint it as badly as possible, and our media in general created a frankly bizarre avalanche trying to prevent withdrawal at all. But the fact that Biden endured the political pressure and got us out of there is a profound sign of character. The last couple presidents simply didn't have the spine. And the fact is Trump had already promised the Taliban that the country was theirs and drawn down our forces to a point where staying wasn't possible anyway. Our time was up.

That being the case, did anyone honestly think pulling out would be easy peasy? Outside of the awful bombing that killed 13 soldiers, I can't see how it could have gone better. We got a ton of people out very quickly. Of course if Biden had pulled everyone out gradually 6 months prior he would have been blasted for showing no confidence in the Afghan government we'd spent 20 years propping up and ensuring their collapse. But the government quickly collapsed anyway, because it was always a mirage... which is of course why we had no business staying there a minute longer.

Are there things you think they should have done differently?

As far as his age, it's funny... given how foreign policy has suddenly become a huge issue, I'm actually very happy we've got a guy in there with FIFTY years of foreign policy experience. The dude knows what he's doing, knows every world leader well, and commands respect. Here's a quote from frickin' Putin after they met a couple years ago: "Biden is a professional, and you have to be very careful in working with him to make sure you don't miss anything. He doesn't miss anything, I can assure you." I'll take that any day over some 50 year old who's barely been out of the country.

---

I agree that Biden generally acquits himself very well on the world stage.

Regarding Afghanistan, obviously having the balls to actually do the thing other leaders (including Obama) have only given lip service to was the right move, it just felt like it was 95% planned and the last 5% at the end was chaos that colored the other 95%.

There was the tragic bombing that killed the 13 soldiers which wasn't good at all. The other most troubling aspect to me was the myriad reports of Afghanistan informants, interpreters, and other vulnerable allies that got left behind in the mad scramble. How many were there? Impossible to say, but you see numbers quoted from the low hundreds to 1k or more that were eventually killed by the Taliban. It sounded like the CIA got essentially all of the American citizens and most vulnerable Afghan allies out but that thousands more were left behind in varying states of vulnerability to retribution from the Taliban. I hate thinking about any number of Afghani people who helped us and trusted that we'd do right by them when the day came and then they got left behind.

Regarding Biden's age, we have choices other than "ancient, with decades of experience" or "50-year-old that's never left the country." And again, a not-insignificant part of my objection to his age is the electoral susceptibility it brings. It matters less how senile he actually is and more how senile people think he is.

Regardless, it's moot for 2024. Hopefully his legislative productivity, genteel manner, and centrist history (although not as much in practice the last four years) will carry the day with swing independent and moderate voters and we can avoid the Insurrector Part Deux.

Semi-relatedly, what would you stake the odds at that Trump or Biden ultimately experience criminal justice consequences from potential malfeasance?

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

Civ, those are all reasonable question. Perhaps you could give us your answers. Hell, we might agree on most…

---

Yeah I'm not the one acting like this economy is the worst evarrrr so I think these questions should be answered by those that think the Biden economy stinks because of him.

First I don't think presidents have as much of an economic effect as partisans try to convince you they do (good or bad).

Second Biden was dealt a chicken **** economy that was in the tank as his starting point. To be clear this wasn't Trump's fault, but nor was it Biden's.

Could you argue the third round of stimulus was one round too much? Yeah but that response was perfectly understandable after most economists agreeing Great Recession stimulus was too slow and too little.

Could you argue inflation is his fault? Yeah but that's a half-ass argument. Inflation spiked all around the world post-COVID and our inflation is in line (actually a little better then) most other developed nations. The Fed has wrestled inflation back down to 3% and it's probably better than that because housing metrics trail. Would Trump or anyone else significantly outperformed Biden or the rest of the world?

What else? Stock market is fine, not that that's really his doing.

Real estate market is slowing down markedly due to the Fed's rising rates to get inflation under control but that's after several years of gangbusters growth and easy money. I don't love the RE slowdown, it's pinching me personally since there are very few buyers in the market. We've got product sitting on market for months longer than previously but that problem's not going to persist forever. The market will come back and real estate is a long game anyway; you can't time the market, you've got to dollar-cost average your ventures long term.

Wage growth especially for low income workers is up markedly which is long overdue.

GDP has fully recovered from the COVID dip and is higher even than pre-COVID projections.

I'm sure there are things to complain about because everything can't be optimized at the same time but from 30k feet there's a lot going right with the economy.

But again, fundamentally, just like QB's presidents get too much credit for a good economy and too much blame for a bad one.

---

Should be mentioned that between Biden's infrastructure law and CHIPS act, the U.S. is currently experiencing a manufacturing boom, with levels of private sector manufacturing investment that have surprised even the Biden Admin. It's creating a boatload of jobs in rural America. Trump liked to cosplay being a Dem and pretended to care about manufacturing and infrastructure... Biden is actually making it happen.

As a bonus, the infrastructure law incentivizes free market investment to actually tackle climate change, rather than leaning on penalties or other coercion... the first significant step our country has managed to take to get real about climate change. Manchin was pissed.

Another bonus, the CHIPS act lays the groundwork for the long process of building our own advanced chips, a national security issue that we should have addressed long ago. Our global economy shouldn't have a single point of failure in Taiwan.

Between that stuff and Biden's foreign policy Master Class, I have no idea what people could possibly be up in arms about... unless you just hate continuing to be a superpower. And it's not like Trump isn't as old as dirt also. I guess that's why they have to invent ridiculous conspiracies (as always) to make the outrage possible.

---

Biden's two biggest positives to me are that he's surrounded himself (aside from Kamala, who is really more a figurehead than an adviser) with pro strategists and advisers and that his team has been quite effectual at spearheading legislation and EO's.

You can easily disagree with Biden's stances on issues but you can't say at this point his team has struggled to govern the way that his predecessor did.

You'd asked previously what I disagree with Biden on; if I'm critiquing Biden his single biggest misstep was the cluster-**** Afghanistan withdrawal.

I think his most rad-lib attempt was student loan forgiveness, an effort which ironically was regressive as hell and also didn't address the underlying huge problem that is cheap federal student loans driving up the cost of higher education in the first place.

As mentioned though, my biggest issue with him is a trope that's definitely been overblown by the right but is still a problem (and is with Trump too) - that being his age. It's not even so much that I think he's senile (he's not) or simply unable to withstand the physical rigors of the position (he is, albeit with some literal and metaphorical stumbles) or that I think he'll die in office (while scary, the likelihood is quite small).

It's that whatever he can do, however sharp he is, however vibrant he is, a 50-year-old would be even moreso and with hopefully more free thought and less prone to the group-think that has to take hold when you've been a career politician for the last 50 years. There's a reason (really, multiple reasons) why like six or eight Fortune 100 CEO's are over 70 and something like 1 or 2 are over age 80.

At this point the Dems are def rolling with Biden. We'll see how the rest shakes out, between Trump possibly being tried for or already convicted of a felony when the election rolls around combined with the unclear impact of a real RFK Jr. run.

---

Yeah, the student loan thing could definitely have been better thought out.

The Afghanistan withdraw is one that I don't get at all, though. Obviously right wingers wanted to paint it as badly as possible, and our media in general created a frankly bizarre avalanche trying to prevent withdrawal at all. But the fact that Biden endured the political pressure and got us out of there is a profound sign of character. The last couple presidents simply didn't have the spine. And the fact is Trump had already promised the Taliban that the country was theirs and drawn down our forces to a point where staying wasn't possible anyway. Our time was up.

That being the case, did anyone honestly think pulling out would be easy peasy? Outside of the awful bombing that killed 13 soldiers, I can't see how it could have gone better. We got a ton of people out very quickly. Of course if Biden had pulled everyone out gradually 6 months prior he would have been blasted for showing no confidence in the Afghan government we'd spent 20 years propping up and ensuring their collapse. But the government quickly collapsed anyway, because it was always a mirage... which is of course why we had no business staying there a minute longer.

Are there things you think they should have done differently?

As far as his age, it's funny... given how foreign policy has suddenly become a huge issue, I'm actually very happy we've got a guy in there with FIFTY years of foreign policy experience. The dude knows what he's doing, knows every world leader well, and commands respect. Here's a quote from frickin' Putin after they met a couple years ago: "Biden is a professional, and you have to be very careful in working with him to make sure you don't miss anything. He doesn't miss anything, I can assure you." I'll take that any day over some 50 year old who's barely been out of the country.

---

I agree that Biden generally acquits himself very well on the world stage.

Regarding Afghanistan, obviously having the balls to actually do the thing other leaders (including Obama) have only given lip service to was the right move, it just felt like it was 95% planned and the last 5% at the end was chaos that colored the other 95%.

There was the tragic bombing that killed the 13 soldiers which wasn't good at all. The other most troubling aspect to me was the myriad reports of Afghanistan informants, interpreters, and other vulnerable allies that got left behind in the mad scramble. How many were there? Impossible to say, but you see numbers quoted from the low hundreds to 1k or more that were eventually killed by the Taliban. It sounded like the CIA got essentially all of the American citizens and most vulnerable Afghan allies out but that thousands more were left behind in varying states of vulnerability to retribution from the Taliban. I hate thinking about any number of Afghani people who helped us and trusted that we'd do right by them when the day came and then they got left behind.

Regarding Biden's age, we have choices other than "ancient, with decades of experience" or "50-year-old that's never left the country." And again, a not-insignificant part of my objection to his age is the electoral susceptibility it brings. It matters less how senile he actually is and more how senile people think he is.

Regardless, it's moot for 2024. Hopefully his legislative productivity, genteel manner, and centrist history (although not as much in practice the last four years) will carry the day with swing independent and moderate voters and we can avoid the Insurrector Part Deux.

Semi-relatedly, what would you stake the odds at that Trump or Biden ultimately experience criminal justice consequences from potential malfeasance?

---

Trump - as much as they can get away with…
Biden - well, Hurr said today, no further actions needed…

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

Civ, those are all reasonable question. Perhaps you could give us your answers. Hell, we might agree on most…

---

Yeah I'm not the one acting like this economy is the worst evarrrr so I think these questions should be answered by those that think the Biden economy stinks because of him.

First I don't think presidents have as much of an economic effect as partisans try to convince you they do (good or bad).

Second Biden was dealt a chicken **** economy that was in the tank as his starting point. To be clear this wasn't Trump's fault, but nor was it Biden's.

Could you argue the third round of stimulus was one round too much? Yeah but that response was perfectly understandable after most economists agreeing Great Recession stimulus was too slow and too little.

Could you argue inflation is his fault? Yeah but that's a half-ass argument. Inflation spiked all around the world post-COVID and our inflation is in line (actually a little better then) most other developed nations. The Fed has wrestled inflation back down to 3% and it's probably better than that because housing metrics trail. Would Trump or anyone else significantly outperformed Biden or the rest of the world?

What else? Stock market is fine, not that that's really his doing.

Real estate market is slowing down markedly due to the Fed's rising rates to get inflation under control but that's after several years of gangbusters growth and easy money. I don't love the RE slowdown, it's pinching me personally since there are very few buyers in the market. We've got product sitting on market for months longer than previously but that problem's not going to persist forever. The market will come back and real estate is a long game anyway; you can't time the market, you've got to dollar-cost average your ventures long term.

Wage growth especially for low income workers is up markedly which is long overdue.

GDP has fully recovered from the COVID dip and is higher even than pre-COVID projections.

I'm sure there are things to complain about because everything can't be optimized at the same time but from 30k feet there's a lot going right with the economy.

But again, fundamentally, just like QB's presidents get too much credit for a good economy and too much blame for a bad one.

---

Should be mentioned that between Biden's infrastructure law and CHIPS act, the U.S. is currently experiencing a manufacturing boom, with levels of private sector manufacturing investment that have surprised even the Biden Admin. It's creating a boatload of jobs in rural America. Trump liked to cosplay being a Dem and pretended to care about manufacturing and infrastructure... Biden is actually making it happen.

As a bonus, the infrastructure law incentivizes free market investment to actually tackle climate change, rather than leaning on penalties or other coercion... the first significant step our country has managed to take to get real about climate change. Manchin was pissed.

Another bonus, the CHIPS act lays the groundwork for the long process of building our own advanced chips, a national security issue that we should have addressed long ago. Our global economy shouldn't have a single point of failure in Taiwan.

Between that stuff and Biden's foreign policy Master Class, I have no idea what people could possibly be up in arms about... unless you just hate continuing to be a superpower. And it's not like Trump isn't as old as dirt also. I guess that's why they have to invent ridiculous conspiracies (as always) to make the outrage possible.

---

Biden's two biggest positives to me are that he's surrounded himself (aside from Kamala, who is really more a figurehead than an adviser) with pro strategists and advisers and that his team has been quite effectual at spearheading legislation and EO's.

You can easily disagree with Biden's stances on issues but you can't say at this point his team has struggled to govern the way that his predecessor did.

You'd asked previously what I disagree with Biden on; if I'm critiquing Biden his single biggest misstep was the cluster-**** Afghanistan withdrawal.

I think his most rad-lib attempt was student loan forgiveness, an effort which ironically was regressive as hell and also didn't address the underlying huge problem that is cheap federal student loans driving up the cost of higher education in the first place.

As mentioned though, my biggest issue with him is a trope that's definitely been overblown by the right but is still a problem (and is with Trump too) - that being his age. It's not even so much that I think he's senile (he's not) or simply unable to withstand the physical rigors of the position (he is, albeit with some literal and metaphorical stumbles) or that I think he'll die in office (while scary, the likelihood is quite small).

It's that whatever he can do, however sharp he is, however vibrant he is, a 50-year-old would be even moreso and with hopefully more free thought and less prone to the group-think that has to take hold when you've been a career politician for the last 50 years. There's a reason (really, multiple reasons) why like six or eight Fortune 100 CEO's are over 70 and something like 1 or 2 are over age 80.

At this point the Dems are def rolling with Biden. We'll see how the rest shakes out, between Trump possibly being tried for or already convicted of a felony when the election rolls around combined with the unclear impact of a real RFK Jr. run.

---

Yeah, the student loan thing could definitely have been better thought out.

The Afghanistan withdraw is one that I don't get at all, though. Obviously right wingers wanted to paint it as badly as possible, and our media in general created a frankly bizarre avalanche trying to prevent withdrawal at all. But the fact that Biden endured the political pressure and got us out of there is a profound sign of character. The last couple presidents simply didn't have the spine. And the fact is Trump had already promised the Taliban that the country was theirs and drawn down our forces to a point where staying wasn't possible anyway. Our time was up.

That being the case, did anyone honestly think pulling out would be easy peasy? Outside of the awful bombing that killed 13 soldiers, I can't see how it could have gone better. We got a ton of people out very quickly. Of course if Biden had pulled everyone out gradually 6 months prior he would have been blasted for showing no confidence in the Afghan government we'd spent 20 years propping up and ensuring their collapse. But the government quickly collapsed anyway, because it was always a mirage... which is of course why we had no business staying there a minute longer.

Are there things you think they should have done differently?

As far as his age, it's funny... given how foreign policy has suddenly become a huge issue, I'm actually very happy we've got a guy in there with FIFTY years of foreign policy experience. The dude knows what he's doing, knows every world leader well, and commands respect. Here's a quote from frickin' Putin after they met a couple years ago: "Biden is a professional, and you have to be very careful in working with him to make sure you don't miss anything. He doesn't miss anything, I can assure you." I'll take that any day over some 50 year old who's barely been out of the country.

---

I agree that Biden generally acquits himself very well on the world stage.

Regarding Afghanistan, obviously having the balls to actually do the thing other leaders (including Obama) have only given lip service to was the right move, it just felt like it was 95% planned and the last 5% at the end was chaos that colored the other 95%.

There was the tragic bombing that killed the 13 soldiers which wasn't good at all. The other most troubling aspect to me was the myriad reports of Afghanistan informants, interpreters, and other vulnerable allies that got left behind in the mad scramble. How many were there? Impossible to say, but you see numbers quoted from the low hundreds to 1k or more that were eventually killed by the Taliban. It sounded like the CIA got essentially all of the American citizens and most vulnerable Afghan allies out but that thousands more were left behind in varying states of vulnerability to retribution from the Taliban. I hate thinking about any number of Afghani people who helped us and trusted that we'd do right by them when the day came and then they got left behind.

Regarding Biden's age, we have choices other than "ancient, with decades of experience" or "50-year-old that's never left the country." And again, a not-insignificant part of my objection to his age is the electoral susceptibility it brings. It matters less how senile he actually is and more how senile people think he is.

Regardless, it's moot for 2024. Hopefully his legislative productivity, genteel manner, and centrist history (although not as much in practice the last four years) will carry the day with swing independent and moderate voters and we can avoid the Insurrector Part Deux.

Semi-relatedly, what would you stake the odds at that Trump or Biden ultimately experience criminal justice consequences from potential malfeasance?

---

Trump - as much as they can get away with…
Biden - well, Hurr said today, no further actions needed…

---

Hur's purview is just classified docs though right? It's never seemed like there was much smoke there with Biden.

The Biden malfeasance risk is almost exclusively in the eventual Burisma findings I think.

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

Civ, those are all reasonable question. Perhaps you could give us your answers. Hell, we might agree on most…

---

Yeah I'm not the one acting like this economy is the worst evarrrr so I think these questions should be answered by those that think the Biden economy stinks because of him.

First I don't think presidents have as much of an economic effect as partisans try to convince you they do (good or bad).

Second Biden was dealt a chicken **** economy that was in the tank as his starting point. To be clear this wasn't Trump's fault, but nor was it Biden's.

Could you argue the third round of stimulus was one round too much? Yeah but that response was perfectly understandable after most economists agreeing Great Recession stimulus was too slow and too little.

Could you argue inflation is his fault? Yeah but that's a half-ass argument. Inflation spiked all around the world post-COVID and our inflation is in line (actually a little better then) most other developed nations. The Fed has wrestled inflation back down to 3% and it's probably better than that because housing metrics trail. Would Trump or anyone else significantly outperformed Biden or the rest of the world?

What else? Stock market is fine, not that that's really his doing.

Real estate market is slowing down markedly due to the Fed's rising rates to get inflation under control but that's after several years of gangbusters growth and easy money. I don't love the RE slowdown, it's pinching me personally since there are very few buyers in the market. We've got product sitting on market for months longer than previously but that problem's not going to persist forever. The market will come back and real estate is a long game anyway; you can't time the market, you've got to dollar-cost average your ventures long term.

Wage growth especially for low income workers is up markedly which is long overdue.

GDP has fully recovered from the COVID dip and is higher even than pre-COVID projections.

I'm sure there are things to complain about because everything can't be optimized at the same time but from 30k feet there's a lot going right with the economy.

But again, fundamentally, just like QB's presidents get too much credit for a good economy and too much blame for a bad one.

---

Should be mentioned that between Biden's infrastructure law and CHIPS act, the U.S. is currently experiencing a manufacturing boom, with levels of private sector manufacturing investment that have surprised even the Biden Admin. It's creating a boatload of jobs in rural America. Trump liked to cosplay being a Dem and pretended to care about manufacturing and infrastructure... Biden is actually making it happen.

As a bonus, the infrastructure law incentivizes free market investment to actually tackle climate change, rather than leaning on penalties or other coercion... the first significant step our country has managed to take to get real about climate change. Manchin was pissed.

Another bonus, the CHIPS act lays the groundwork for the long process of building our own advanced chips, a national security issue that we should have addressed long ago. Our global economy shouldn't have a single point of failure in Taiwan.

Between that stuff and Biden's foreign policy Master Class, I have no idea what people could possibly be up in arms about... unless you just hate continuing to be a superpower. And it's not like Trump isn't as old as dirt also. I guess that's why they have to invent ridiculous conspiracies (as always) to make the outrage possible.

---

Biden's two biggest positives to me are that he's surrounded himself (aside from Kamala, who is really more a figurehead than an adviser) with pro strategists and advisers and that his team has been quite effectual at spearheading legislation and EO's.

You can easily disagree with Biden's stances on issues but you can't say at this point his team has struggled to govern the way that his predecessor did.

You'd asked previously what I disagree with Biden on; if I'm critiquing Biden his single biggest misstep was the cluster-**** Afghanistan withdrawal.

I think his most rad-lib attempt was student loan forgiveness, an effort which ironically was regressive as hell and also didn't address the underlying huge problem that is cheap federal student loans driving up the cost of higher education in the first place.

As mentioned though, my biggest issue with him is a trope that's definitely been overblown by the right but is still a problem (and is with Trump too) - that being his age. It's not even so much that I think he's senile (he's not) or simply unable to withstand the physical rigors of the position (he is, albeit with some literal and metaphorical stumbles) or that I think he'll die in office (while scary, the likelihood is quite small).

It's that whatever he can do, however sharp he is, however vibrant he is, a 50-year-old would be even moreso and with hopefully more free thought and less prone to the group-think that has to take hold when you've been a career politician for the last 50 years. There's a reason (really, multiple reasons) why like six or eight Fortune 100 CEO's are over 70 and something like 1 or 2 are over age 80.

At this point the Dems are def rolling with Biden. We'll see how the rest shakes out, between Trump possibly being tried for or already convicted of a felony when the election rolls around combined with the unclear impact of a real RFK Jr. run.

---

Yeah, the student loan thing could definitely have been better thought out.

The Afghanistan withdraw is one that I don't get at all, though. Obviously right wingers wanted to paint it as badly as possible, and our media in general created a frankly bizarre avalanche trying to prevent withdrawal at all. But the fact that Biden endured the political pressure and got us out of there is a profound sign of character. The last couple presidents simply didn't have the spine. And the fact is Trump had already promised the Taliban that the country was theirs and drawn down our forces to a point where staying wasn't possible anyway. Our time was up.

That being the case, did anyone honestly think pulling out would be easy peasy? Outside of the awful bombing that killed 13 soldiers, I can't see how it could have gone better. We got a ton of people out very quickly. Of course if Biden had pulled everyone out gradually 6 months prior he would have been blasted for showing no confidence in the Afghan government we'd spent 20 years propping up and ensuring their collapse. But the government quickly collapsed anyway, because it was always a mirage... which is of course why we had no business staying there a minute longer.

Are there things you think they should have done differently?

As far as his age, it's funny... given how foreign policy has suddenly become a huge issue, I'm actually very happy we've got a guy in there with FIFTY years of foreign policy experience. The dude knows what he's doing, knows every world leader well, and commands respect. Here's a quote from frickin' Putin after they met a couple years ago: "Biden is a professional, and you have to be very careful in working with him to make sure you don't miss anything. He doesn't miss anything, I can assure you." I'll take that any day over some 50 year old who's barely been out of the country.

---

I agree that Biden generally acquits himself very well on the world stage.

Regarding Afghanistan, obviously having the balls to actually do the thing other leaders (including Obama) have only given lip service to was the right move, it just felt like it was 95% planned and the last 5% at the end was chaos that colored the other 95%.

There was the tragic bombing that killed the 13 soldiers which wasn't good at all. The other most troubling aspect to me was the myriad reports of Afghanistan informants, interpreters, and other vulnerable allies that got left behind in the mad scramble. How many were there? Impossible to say, but you see numbers quoted from the low hundreds to 1k or more that were eventually killed by the Taliban. It sounded like the CIA got essentially all of the American citizens and most vulnerable Afghan allies out but that thousands more were left behind in varying states of vulnerability to retribution from the Taliban. I hate thinking about any number of Afghani people who helped us and trusted that we'd do right by them when the day came and then they got left behind.

Regarding Biden's age, we have choices other than "ancient, with decades of experience" or "50-year-old that's never left the country." And again, a not-insignificant part of my objection to his age is the electoral susceptibility it brings. It matters less how senile he actually is and more how senile people think he is.

Regardless, it's moot for 2024. Hopefully his legislative productivity, genteel manner, and centrist history (although not as much in practice the last four years) will carry the day with swing independent and moderate voters and we can avoid the Insurrector Part Deux.

Semi-relatedly, what would you stake the odds at that Trump or Biden ultimately experience criminal justice consequences from potential malfeasance?

---

It's worth pointing out that Biden wasn't actually on the ground directing the withdrawal... the bombing and other plans that went sideways should more fairly be blamed on military leadership. But there was just no way you could expect to withdraw from Afghanistan after 20 years without at least some chaos. Many people had cartoonish expectations that seemed designed to score points on Biden and/or keep us there forever. I do agree that it sucks we didn't get more Afghans out... I suspect the shocking speed that their government collapsed played a role.

Anyway, if Trump wins the election he'll make all of his indictments go away and have zero criminal justice consequences... if he loses then I'll be shocked if he makes it out without much deserved jail time.

I'd say zero chance for Biden because there isn't any evidence or even a credible allegation that he's done anything wrong. The Burisma nonsense is still nonsense. The classified documents thing is a conservative misdirection... Every elected official ends up with a few classified docs stuck to their shoe that get returned upon discovery. Trump is facing jail time because he refused to give them back, obstructed the FBI multiple times for months, was recorded scheming to keep them, etc.

LOL, building some trust and good will. Election fraud put this clown in office.

New world soap opera "AS THE WORLD BURNED"

"Mr. President, we're trying to avoid World War III. China hated it when you called Xi a dictator."

BIDEN: "OK. I got it."

"Do you?"

BIDEN: "Do I what?"

"Got it?"

BIDEN: "Got what?"

"Oh for fuck's sake... Don't call Xi a dictator."

BIDEN: "Got it."

Biden minutes later: pic.twitter.com/T8cai7zbFQ

— Jason Howerton (@jason_howerton) November 16, 2023

Why bother asking, right?

Time for a SERIOUS QUESTION…

WHY is Xi, who is General Secretary of the COMMUNIST PARTY OF CHINA (CCP) on American soil meeting with Biden to begin with a year out from 2024 Election with whispers of Newsom running???

And, WHY are our soldiers holding a COMMUNIST FLAG… pic.twitter.com/dHULe3MxfR

— The Patriot Voice (@TPV_John) November 15, 2023

Is Biden being removed from the 2024 ballot this week?

Last week, Gavin Newsom flew to China to hang out with President Xi.

This week Xi is coming to California to meet with Newsom and also with Biden.

Is this where Xi tells Biden he needs to step aside for Newsom to run?

— Joey Mannarino (@JoeyMannarinoUS) November 12, 2023

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Serious questions-

What economic policies of Biden's do you strongly object to?

How have those policies harmed our economy?

What aspects of our current economy do you object to?

What did Biden do to create them?

---

Civ, those are all reasonable question. Perhaps you could give us your answers. Hell, we might agree on most…

---

Yeah I'm not the one acting like this economy is the worst evarrrr so I think these questions should be answered by those that think the Biden economy stinks because of him.

First I don't think presidents have as much of an economic effect as partisans try to convince you they do (good or bad).

Second Biden was dealt a chicken **** economy that was in the tank as his starting point. To be clear this wasn't Trump's fault, but nor was it Biden's.

Could you argue the third round of stimulus was one round too much? Yeah but that response was perfectly understandable after most economists agreeing Great Recession stimulus was too slow and too little.

Could you argue inflation is his fault? Yeah but that's a half-ass argument. Inflation spiked all around the world post-COVID and our inflation is in line (actually a little better then) most other developed nations. The Fed has wrestled inflation back down to 3% and it's probably better than that because housing metrics trail. Would Trump or anyone else significantly outperformed Biden or the rest of the world?

What else? Stock market is fine, not that that's really his doing.

Real estate market is slowing down markedly due to the Fed's rising rates to get inflation under control but that's after several years of gangbusters growth and easy money. I don't love the RE slowdown, it's pinching me personally since there are very few buyers in the market. We've got product sitting on market for months longer than previously but that problem's not going to persist forever. The market will come back and real estate is a long game anyway; you can't time the market, you've got to dollar-cost average your ventures long term.

Wage growth especially for low income workers is up markedly which is long overdue.

GDP has fully recovered from the COVID dip and is higher even than pre-COVID projections.

I'm sure there are things to complain about because everything can't be optimized at the same time but from 30k feet there's a lot going right with the economy.

But again, fundamentally, just like QB's presidents get too much credit for a good economy and too much blame for a bad one.

---

Should be mentioned that between Biden's infrastructure law and CHIPS act, the U.S. is currently experiencing a manufacturing boom, with levels of private sector manufacturing investment that have surprised even the Biden Admin. It's creating a boatload of jobs in rural America. Trump liked to cosplay being a Dem and pretended to care about manufacturing and infrastructure... Biden is actually making it happen.

As a bonus, the infrastructure law incentivizes free market investment to actually tackle climate change, rather than leaning on penalties or other coercion... the first significant step our country has managed to take to get real about climate change. Manchin was pissed.

Another bonus, the CHIPS act lays the groundwork for the long process of building our own advanced chips, a national security issue that we should have addressed long ago. Our global economy shouldn't have a single point of failure in Taiwan.

Between that stuff and Biden's foreign policy Master Class, I have no idea what people could possibly be up in arms about... unless you just hate continuing to be a superpower. And it's not like Trump isn't as old as dirt also. I guess that's why they have to invent ridiculous conspiracies (as always) to make the outrage possible.

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Biden's two biggest positives to me are that he's surrounded himself (aside from Kamala, who is really more a figurehead than an adviser) with pro strategists and advisers and that his team has been quite effectual at spearheading legislation and EO's.

You can easily disagree with Biden's stances on issues but you can't say at this point his team has struggled to govern the way that his predecessor did.

You'd asked previously what I disagree with Biden on; if I'm critiquing Biden his single biggest misstep was the cluster-**** Afghanistan withdrawal.

I think his most rad-lib attempt was student loan forgiveness, an effort which ironically was regressive as hell and also didn't address the underlying huge problem that is cheap federal student loans driving up the cost of higher education in the first place.

As mentioned though, my biggest issue with him is a trope that's definitely been overblown by the right but is still a problem (and is with Trump too) - that being his age. It's not even so much that I think he's senile (he's not) or simply unable to withstand the physical rigors of the position (he is, albeit with some literal and metaphorical stumbles) or that I think he'll die in office (while scary, the likelihood is quite small).

It's that whatever he can do, however sharp he is, however vibrant he is, a 50-year-old would be even moreso and with hopefully more free thought and less prone to the group-think that has to take hold when you've been a career politician for the last 50 years. There's a reason (really, multiple reasons) why like six or eight Fortune 100 CEO's are over 70 and something like 1 or 2 are over age 80.

At this point the Dems are def rolling with Biden. We'll see how the rest shakes out, between Trump possibly being tried for or already convicted of a felony when the election rolls around combined with the unclear impact of a real RFK Jr. run.

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Yeah, the student loan thing could definitely have been better thought out.

The Afghanistan withdraw is one that I don't get at all, though. Obviously right wingers wanted to paint it as badly as possible, and our media in general created a frankly bizarre avalanche trying to prevent withdrawal at all. But the fact that Biden endured the political pressure and got us out of there is a profound sign of character. The last couple presidents simply didn't have the spine. And the fact is Trump had already promised the Taliban that the country was theirs and drawn down our forces to a point where staying wasn't possible anyway. Our time was up.

That being the case, did anyone honestly think pulling out would be easy peasy? Outside of the awful bombing that killed 13 soldiers, I can't see how it could have gone better. We got a ton of people out very quickly. Of course if Biden had pulled everyone out gradually 6 months prior he would have been blasted for showing no confidence in the Afghan government we'd spent 20 years propping up and ensuring their collapse. But the government quickly collapsed anyway, because it was always a mirage... which is of course why we had no business staying there a minute longer.

Are there things you think they should have done differently?

As far as his age, it's funny... given how foreign policy has suddenly become a huge issue, I'm actually very happy we've got a guy in there with FIFTY years of foreign policy experience. The dude knows what he's doing, knows every world leader well, and commands respect. Here's a quote from frickin' Putin after they met a couple years ago: "Biden is a professional, and you have to be very careful in working with him to make sure you don't miss anything. He doesn't miss anything, I can assure you." I'll take that any day over some 50 year old who's barely been out of the country.

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I agree that Biden generally acquits himself very well on the world stage.

Regarding Afghanistan, obviously having the balls to actually do the thing other leaders (including Obama) have only given lip service to was the right move, it just felt like it was 95% planned and the last 5% at the end was chaos that colored the other 95%.

There was the tragic bombing that killed the 13 soldiers which wasn't good at all. The other most troubling aspect to me was the myriad reports of Afghanistan informants, interpreters, and other vulnerable allies that got left behind in the mad scramble. How many were there? Impossible to say, but you see numbers quoted from the low hundreds to 1k or more that were eventually killed by the Taliban. It sounded like the CIA got essentially all of the American citizens and most vulnerable Afghan allies out but that thousands more were left behind in varying states of vulnerability to retribution from the Taliban. I hate thinking about any number of Afghani people who helped us and trusted that we'd do right by them when the day came and then they got left behind.

Regarding Biden's age, we have choices other than "ancient, with decades of experience" or "50-year-old that's never left the country." And again, a not-insignificant part of my objection to his age is the electoral susceptibility it brings. It matters less how senile he actually is and more how senile people think he is.

Regardless, it's moot for 2024. Hopefully his legislative productivity, genteel manner, and centrist history (although not as much in practice the last four years) will carry the day with swing independent and moderate voters and we can avoid the Insurrector Part Deux.

Semi-relatedly, what would you stake the odds at that Trump or Biden ultimately experience criminal justice consequences from potential malfeasance?

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Trump - as much as they can get away with…
Biden - well, Hurr said today, no further actions needed…

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Hur's purview is just classified docs though right? It's never seemed like there was much smoke there with Biden.

The Biden malfeasance risk is almost exclusively in the eventual Burisma findings I think.

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Ok, if you look at this in its simplest form, we had two people remove classified documents from areas that should be secure. The difference is: one had a legal way of doing it and the other didn't.

It really is that simple.

Hur decided one's actions didn't require further investigation. The other is being parade through virtual hell.

Oldsouljer said:

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I'd say he convicts himself, rather than acquits, on the world stage.

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As evidenced by what?

From the RUSSIA!!!!! crowd

Putin says "Biden is a professional, and you have to be very careful in working with him to make sure you don't miss anything. He doesn't miss anything, I can assure you."

You can't make this up.... LOL!