Werewolf said:

---

Joe Biden repeatedly lied when he said he "never" talked to Hunter about his foreign business dealings.

Joe met with Hunter's business associates at least 16 times.

---

pic.twitter.com/UpBdUi7PfI

— Jeremy Prime (@DDayCobra) December 9, 2022

packgrad said:

---

910wolf said:

---

Set aside the former marine and his family being fine with it.

This is still a completely idiotic trade. We release a Russian arms dealer during the Russian Ukraine war just to score some political points with a very specific portion of the population?

Putin is probably laughing and drinking his face off at how big of a moron Biden is.

---

Correct. But the woke are happy about it. The marine family had class, unlike what the woke would have had if the marine had been released in place of the pot head.

---

Pretty certain this is the outcome Russia wanted, They are never giving up Whelan. But, this is a win win for them in that they get back Bout and sow more discord amongst the American public

910wolf said:

---

Set aside the former marine and his family being fine with it.

This is still a completely idiotic trade. We release a Russian arms dealer during the Russian Ukraine war just to score some political points with a very specific portion of the population?

Putin is probably laughing and drinking his face off at how big of a moron Biden is.

---

Yep. Yay democrats!

GuerrillaPack said:

---

All this communist puppet in chief talks about is banning American citizens from owning guns. Can he even go one day without talking about it?

Even on the day that he releases a Russian arms dealer from prison. Release Russian arms dealers....disarm Americans....HELLO!

If the communist demonicrats are so obsessesed with banning guns, why don't these Democrats FIRST give up their armed body guards, and disarm the capitol police. Set the example for the rest of us. Then maybe I'll listen to what you have to say. I'll never agree. But maybe I'd take you seriously. For now, though, I just know that you are hypocrites. You want to disarm the people while only making your tyrannical communist regime more powerful.

---

OPTICs..............

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

910wolf said:

---

Set aside the former marine and his family being fine with it.

This is still a completely idiotic trade. We release a Russian arms dealer during the Russian Ukraine war just to score some political points with a very specific portion of the population?

Putin is probably laughing and drinking his face off at how big of a moron Biden is.

---

Correct. But the woke are happy about it. The marine family had class, unlike what the woke would have had if the marine had been released in place of the pot head.

---

Pretty certain this is the outcome Russia wanted, They are never giving up Whelan. But, this is a win win for them in that they get back Bout and sow more discord amongst the American public

---

If that makes you feel better to say they are never giving Whelan back, so be it. Terrible decision. Ridiculous to think giving her back instead of the marine would sow more discord. The entire msm and pretindependents celebrate the transaction, partially because the Whelan family showed class. Pretending there wouldn't be more discord if the white marine was returned and the black woman kept is absolute nonsense though.

It's what the Russians wanted, or it wouldn't have happened. It doesn't sow more discord though. That's just what the left tells themselves to make themselves feel better about the right being disappointed that the left left another soldier behind.

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

910wolf said:

---

Set aside the former marine and his family being fine with it.

This is still a completely idiotic trade. We release a Russian arms dealer during the Russian Ukraine war just to score some political points with a very specific portion of the population?

Putin is probably laughing and drinking his face off at how big of a moron Biden is.

---

Correct. But the woke are happy about it. The marine family had class, unlike what the woke would have had if the marine had been released in place of the pot head.

---

Pretty certain this is the outcome Russia wanted, They are never giving up Whelan. But, this is a win win for them in that they get back Bout and sow more discord amongst the American public

---

If that makes you feel better to say they are never giving Whelan back, so be it. Terrible decision. Ridiculous to think giving her back instead of the marine would sow more discord. The entire msm and pretindependents celebrate the transaction, partially because the Whelan family showed class. Pretending there wouldn't be more discord if the white marine was returned and the black woman kept is absolute nonsense though.

It's what the Russians wanted, or it wouldn't have happened. It doesn't sow more discord though. That's just what the left tells themselves to make themselves feel better about the right being disappointed that the left left another soldier behind.

---

Exactly my point.

I don't understand your first sentence. A 2 for 1 was never going to happen because the Russians are never going to release Whelan. That doesn't make me happy or feel better, it's terrible, but it's the most likely outcome based on their posturing. They see Whelan as an asset, Griner not so much.

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

910wolf said:

---

Set aside the former marine and his family being fine with it.

This is still a completely idiotic trade. We release a Russian arms dealer during the Russian Ukraine war just to score some political points with a very specific portion of the population?

Putin is probably laughing and drinking his face off at how big of a moron Biden is.

---

Correct. But the woke are happy about it. The marine family had class, unlike what the woke would have had if the marine had been released in place of the pot head.

---

Pretty certain this is the outcome Russia wanted, They are never giving up Whelan. But, this is a win win for them in that they get back Bout and sow more discord amongst the American public

---

If that makes you feel better to say they are never giving Whelan back, so be it. Terrible decision. Ridiculous to think giving her back instead of the marine would sow more discord. The entire msm and pretindependents celebrate the transaction, partially because the Whelan family showed class. Pretending there wouldn't be more discord if the white marine was returned and the black woman kept is absolute nonsense though.

It's what the Russians wanted, or it wouldn't have happened. It doesn't sow more discord though. That's just what the left tells themselves to make themselves feel better about the right being disappointed that the left left another soldier behind.

---

Exactly my point.

I don't understand your first sentence. A 2 for 1 was never going to happen because the Russians are never going to release Whelan. That doesn't make me happy or feel better, it's terrible, but it's the most likely outcome based on their posturing. They see Whelan as an asset, Griner not so much.

---

Exactly.

Biden bringing them both home was absolute best case scenario for everyone. Griner and Whelan and their families win, and the news would be universally celebrated on both sides of the aisle. The administration had every reason to try their damndest to bring them both home.

But in negotiations no matter how badly you want to buy you can't make someone sell. Griner was for sale. Whelan was not. You want both but one is better than none.

You can only do the deal that's in front of you. You got Griner home. Now keep grinding looking for any daylight with Whelan, no matter how improbable.

And this can never be proven, because there is no way that Biden was trading anybody for Whelan unless Griner was coming with him... but of course the other way around was fine.

*That reply was actually meant for hokie, don't know why it went to Civ, but a six of one and...

TheStorm said:

---

And this can never be proven, because there is no way that Biden was trading anybody for Whelan unless Griner was coming with him... but of course the other way around was fine.

*That replay was actually meant for hokie, don't know why it went to Civ, but a six of one and...

---

Have you read anything, anywhere that indicates there was daylight in talks for Whelan?

All I've seen, in US and international press, is that Griner and Whelan were valued very differently by Russia.

From BBC News:

"Speaking from a Russian penal colony, Paul Whelan said he had been told that Russia "put me at a level higher than what they did with Trevor and Brittney", because he had been accused of spying."

Like hokie said, Griner was a pawn. Whelan is a rook or bishop that Russia isn't yet willing to give up.

Biden would have never taken Whelan back unless Griner was coming with him. There. Now I've said it twice.

You can posture however you'd like, but even you know that I am right... but you'd never, ever admit it regardless.

TheStorm said:

---

Biden would have never taken Whelan back unless Griner was coming with him. There. Now I've said it twice.

You can posture however you'd like, but even you know that I am right... but you'd never, ever admit it regardless.

---

It's a waste of time to debate that point because it's a completely moot hypothetical. It never would have gone down that way.

Biden has plenty of real problems to criticize without also making up hypotheticals that would never come to pass to be mad at.

packgrad said:

---

TheStorm said:

---

Biden would have never taken Whelan back unless Griner was coming with him. There. Now I've said it twice.

You can posture however you'd like, but even you know that I am right... but you'd never, ever admit it regardless.

---

Correct on both accounts. Biden and independent civ.

---

I didn't appreciate the typical Biden grandstanding press conference after it happened yesterday either... dude has such a lack of self awareness.

TheStorm said:

---

And this can never be proven, because there is no way that Biden was trading anybody for Whelan unless Griner was coming with him... but of course the other way around was fine.

*That reply was actually meant for hokie, don't know why it went to Civ, but a six of one and...

---

I would have to agree with that. He would get hammered by the far left if that scenario occurred.

hokiewolf said:

---

TheStorm said:

---

And this can never be proven, because there is no way that Biden was trading anybody for Whelan unless Griner was coming with him... but of course the other way around was fine.

*That reply was actually meant for hokie, don't know why it went to Civ, but a six of one and...

---

I would have to agree with that. He would get hammered by the far left if that scenario occurred.

---

Your party Hokie... you know it. This is who you are. Own it.

You and your "trophies for all" crowd really do stand out. This is another moment you are smiling. You can deny all you want. But you know deep down you support this.

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

910wolf said:

---

Set aside the former marine and his family being fine with it.

This is still a completely idiotic trade. We release a Russian arms dealer during the Russian Ukraine war just to score some political points with a very specific portion of the population?

Putin is probably laughing and drinking his face off at how big of a moron Biden is.

---

Correct. But the woke are happy about it. The marine family had class, unlike what the woke would have had if the marine had been released in place of the pot head.

---

Pretty certain this is the outcome Russia wanted, They are never giving up Whelan. But, this is a win win for them in that they get back Bout and sow more discord amongst the American public

---

If that makes you feel better to say they are never giving Whelan back, so be it. Terrible decision. Ridiculous to think giving her back instead of the marine would sow more discord. The entire msm and pretindependents celebrate the transaction, partially because the Whelan family showed class. Pretending there wouldn't be more discord if the white marine was returned and the black woman kept is absolute nonsense though.

It's what the Russians wanted, or it wouldn't have happened. It doesn't sow more discord though. That's just what the left tells themselves to make themselves feel better about the right being disappointed that the left left another soldier behind.

---

Exactly my point.

I don't understand your first sentence. A 2 for 1 was never going to happen because the Russians are never going to release Whelan. That doesn't make me happy or feel better, it's terrible, but it's the most likely outcome based on their posturing. They see Whelan as an asset, Griner not so much.

---

Exactly.

Biden bringing them both home was absolute best case scenario for everyone. Griner and Whelan and their families win, and the news would be universally celebrated on both sides of the aisle. The administration had every reason to try their damndest to bring them both home.

But in negotiations no matter how badly you want to buy you can't make someone sell. Griner was for sale. Whelan was not. You want both but one is better than none.

You can only do the deal that's in front of you. You got Griner home. Now keep grinding looking for any daylight with Whelan, no matter how improbable.

---

Once again, ignore the Griner vs. Whelan debate for now.

Agreeing to Griner for Viktor Bout was a bad trade! This was not even close to the benefit of the country (which the President is supposed to serve). This was a political stunt for a very specific portion of the population.

There is no argument whatsoever that giving up Bout for Griner was a good deal for the US.

910wolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

910wolf said:

---

Set aside the former marine and his family being fine with it.

This is still a completely idiotic trade. We release a Russian arms dealer during the Russian Ukraine war just to score some political points with a very specific portion of the population?

Putin is probably laughing and drinking his face off at how big of a moron Biden is.

---

Correct. But the woke are happy about it. The marine family had class, unlike what the woke would have had if the marine had been released in place of the pot head.

---

Pretty certain this is the outcome Russia wanted, They are never giving up Whelan. But, this is a win win for them in that they get back Bout and sow more discord amongst the American public

---

If that makes you feel better to say they are never giving Whelan back, so be it. Terrible decision. Ridiculous to think giving her back instead of the marine would sow more discord. The entire msm and pretindependents celebrate the transaction, partially because the Whelan family showed class. Pretending there wouldn't be more discord if the white marine was returned and the black woman kept is absolute nonsense though.

It's what the Russians wanted, or it wouldn't have happened. It doesn't sow more discord though. That's just what the left tells themselves to make themselves feel better about the right being disappointed that the left left another soldier behind.

---

Exactly my point.

I don't understand your first sentence. A 2 for 1 was never going to happen because the Russians are never going to release Whelan. That doesn't make me happy or feel better, it's terrible, but it's the most likely outcome based on their posturing. They see Whelan as an asset, Griner not so much.

---

Exactly.

Biden bringing them both home was absolute best case scenario for everyone. Griner and Whelan and their families win, and the news would be universally celebrated on both sides of the aisle. The administration had every reason to try their damndest to bring them both home.

But in negotiations no matter how badly you want to buy you can't make someone sell. Griner was for sale. Whelan was not. You want both but one is better than none.

You can only do the deal that's in front of you. You got Griner home. Now keep grinding looking for any daylight with Whelan, no matter how improbable.

---

Once again, ignore the Griner vs. Whelan debate for now.

Agreeing to Griner for Viktor Bout was a bad trade! This was not even close to the benefit of the country (which the President is supposed to serve). This was a political stunt for a very specific portion of the population.

There is no argument whatsoever that giving up Bout for Griner was a good deal for the US.

---

I don't see anyone arguing it was a good deal, but it was the only deal there for the taking.

So if you can bring an American home, even if it's not the deal you wanted, you refuse the deal and tell her and her family what, exactly? Russia wanted too much in exchange for her? This isn't a GM deciding whether to overpay for a league average shortstop. This is the United States deciding whether to "overpay" to bring an American prisoner home.

Some people are way too distracted by their anti-wokeness. Griner was an American political prisoner. Her freedom isn't worth any more or less than Whelan or any other political prisoner just because she's gay and black. Biden isn't trying less hard to bring home Whelan because he's a white dude; the reality is simply that bringing Whelan home is a lot harder because Russia values him much more highly.

Regarding the specifics of the case, hearing people talk about how bad a deal it was you'd think Bout had been sentenced to 47 consecutive life sentences without the possibility for parole and that was what had been commuted. His sentence was for 25 years, and it began 11 years ago. He was going to be out of prison in 14 years.

He was an arms dealer and her charges were petty by comparison. So yeah I agree it wasn't a "good" deal. But again it was the only deal on the table. Whelan wasn't coming home. The administration wasn't choosing between Griner and Whelan; they were choosing between Griner and nobody.

Here goes the tyrant again today. These communists can't go 5 minutes without foaming at the mouth at the thought of disarming the American people.

We’ve made important progress passing the most significant gun safety law in three decades.

But the work continues to ban assault weapons.

We did it before, we can do it again.

— President Biden (@POTUS) December 9, 2022

And remember that they won't stop at just so-called "assault weapons", such as AR-15s. As the kid sniffer slipped up and admitted, their true aim is to ban all semi-automatic firearms.

Civilized said:

---

910wolf said:

---

Civilized said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

packgrad said:

---

910wolf said:

---

Set aside the former marine and his family being fine with it.

This is still a completely idiotic trade. We release a Russian arms dealer during the Russian Ukraine war just to score some political points with a very specific portion of the population?

Putin is probably laughing and drinking his face off at how big of a moron Biden is.

---

Correct. But the woke are happy about it. The marine family had class, unlike what the woke would have had if the marine had been released in place of the pot head.

---

Pretty certain this is the outcome Russia wanted, They are never giving up Whelan. But, this is a win win for them in that they get back Bout and sow more discord amongst the American public

---

If that makes you feel better to say they are never giving Whelan back, so be it. Terrible decision. Ridiculous to think giving her back instead of the marine would sow more discord. The entire msm and pretindependents celebrate the transaction, partially because the Whelan family showed class. Pretending there wouldn't be more discord if the white marine was returned and the black woman kept is absolute nonsense though.

It's what the Russians wanted, or it wouldn't have happened. It doesn't sow more discord though. That's just what the left tells themselves to make themselves feel better about the right being disappointed that the left left another soldier behind.

---

Exactly my point.

I don't understand your first sentence. A 2 for 1 was never going to happen because the Russians are never going to release Whelan. That doesn't make me happy or feel better, it's terrible, but it's the most likely outcome based on their posturing. They see Whelan as an asset, Griner not so much.

---

Exactly.

Biden bringing them both home was absolute best case scenario for everyone. Griner and Whelan and their families win, and the news would be universally celebrated on both sides of the aisle. The administration had every reason to try their damndest to bring them both home.

But in negotiations no matter how badly you want to buy you can't make someone sell. Griner was for sale. Whelan was not. You want both but one is better than none.

You can only do the deal that's in front of you. You got Griner home. Now keep grinding looking for any daylight with Whelan, no matter how improbable.

---

Once again, ignore the Griner vs. Whelan debate for now.

Agreeing to Griner for Viktor Bout was a bad trade! This was not even close to the benefit of the country (which the President is supposed to serve). This was a political stunt for a very specific portion of the population.

There is no argument whatsoever that giving up Bout for Griner was a good deal for the US.

---

I don't see anyone arguing it was a good deal, but it was the only deal there for the taking.

So if you can bring an American home, even if it's not the deal you wanted, you refuse the deal and tell her and her family what, exactly? Russia wanted too much in exchange for her? This isn't a GM deciding whether to overpay for a league average shortstop. This is the United States deciding whether to "overpay" to bring an American prisoner home.

Some people are way too distracted by their anti-wokeness. Griner was an American political prisoner. Her freedom isn't worth any more or less than Whelan or any other political prisoner just because she's gay and black. Biden isn't trying less hard to bring home Whelan because he's a white dude; the reality is simply that bringing Whelan home is a lot harder because Russia values him much more highly.

Regarding the specifics of the case, hearing people talk about how bad a deal it was you'd think Bout had been sentenced to 47 consecutive life sentences without the possibility for parole and that was what had been commuted. His sentence was for 25 years, and it began 11 years ago. He was going to be out of prison in 14 years.

He was an arms dealer and her charges were petty by comparison. So yeah I agree it wasn't a "good" deal. But again it was the only deal on the table. Whelan wasn't coming home. The administration wasn't choosing between Griner and Whelan; they were choosing between Griner and nobody.

---

I agree that was the only deal on the table. And it was a deal that shouldn't have been made.

caryking said:

---

910wolf said:

---

I agree that was the only deal on the table. And it was a deal that shouldn't have been made.

---

Was it?

According to NBC News, Biden had a choice of the two people…. Ultimately, the report was pulled down by NBC.

---

That report would have been the only one I've read like it, anywhere.

Every other report has indicated that months ago it quickly became obvious Russia was willing to deal on Griner but were closed off to all attempted offers for Whelan.

910wolf said:

---

I agree that was the only deal on the table. And it was a deal that shouldn't have been made.

---

Because the Russians wouldn't deal on Whelan? It should have been all-or-nothing?

Or simply because the price paid for Griner was too high?

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

910wolf said:

---

I agree that was the only deal on the table. And it was a deal that shouldn't have been made.

---

Was it?

According to NBC News, Biden had a choice of the two people…. Ultimately, the report was pulled down by NBC.

---

That report would have been the only one I've read like it, anywhere.

Every other report has indicated that months ago it quickly became obvious Russia was willing to deal on Griner but were closed off to all attempted offers for Whelan.

---

That's the good thing about state run media for the democrats.

But it doesn't matter that the democrats control the media. I forgot.

---

His post above yours doesn't even pass the sniff test... in fact it reeks (pun intended)... which one is unlike the other?

a) Convicted Marine accused of espionage
b) Convicted International Arms Dealer
c) Entitled US Citizen that thinks it's ok to take liquid weed into Russia (of all places) and that nothing will happen to her because of who she is

packgrad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

910wolf said:

---

I agree that was the only deal on the table. And it was a deal that shouldn't have been made.

---

Was it?

According to NBC News, Biden had a choice of the two people…. Ultimately, the report was pulled down by NBC.

---

That report would have been the only one I've read like it, anywhere.

Every other report has indicated that months ago it quickly became obvious Russia was willing to deal on Griner but were closed off to all attempted offers for Whelan.

---

That's the good thing about state run media for the democrats.

But it doesn't matter that the democrats control the media. I forgot.

---

What "non-democrat-controlled" media reported there was actual daylight in Whelan negotiations and the administration fumbled the ball?

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

910wolf said:

---

I agree that was the only deal on the table. And it was a deal that shouldn't have been made.

---

Was it?

According to NBC News, Biden had a choice of the two people…. Ultimately, the report was pulled down by NBC.

---

That report would have been the only one I've read like it, anywhere.

Every other report has indicated that months ago it quickly became obvious Russia was willing to deal on Griner but were closed off to all attempted offers for Whelan.

---

Civ, that report is not the report; rather, it's a report on a NBC report that was posted, then, was mysteriously taken down. So, don't get too caught up in this report or the varicosity of it other than the NBC report. I was hearing about the NBC report that morning as well.

Research the NBC report that was taken down…

I don't think we will ever know the truth. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Biden administration lied.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/russia-state-television-mocks-u-s-for-brittney-griner-prisoner-exchange

Not because it matters if it is a he or she but how many here think Brittney is a man and how many think a woman?

And this dude that was released in the trade is considered to be one of the most dangerous men in the world.

Does Biden control the military? He said - as did Obama - that he would close down GITMO. ;-)

Gitmo is expanding. A new courthouse is getting built. Military tribunals? 👀👀 pic.twitter.com/9DUAztXgr3

— CaliforniaRealtorCristy 🏠🐸💃 (@RealtorCristyB) September 7, 2021

packofwolves said:

---

I don't think we will ever know the truth. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Biden administration lied.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/russia-state-television-mocks-u-s-for-brittney-griner-prisoner-exchange

---

Is this the same Russia state television that loves Tucker Carlson's Putin-fawning?

https://www.theblaze.com/news/miscalculation-causes-ice-to-underreport-illegal-immigrants-released-without-tracking-technology-by-over-18000