5 dead, including 2 deputies, from all-day standoff in Boone

3,539 Views | 108 Replies | Last: 12 days ago by BBW12OG
dogplasma
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pineknollshoresking said:

Civilized said:

hokiewolf said:

Because it's a dumb idea. You're past the point of prevention in this case

Yep. No one is arguing that unarmed community officers should handle situations like this.
You all do know I'm joking, right?
SOCIALIST!
TheStorm
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Bell Tower Grey said:

statefan91 said:

packgrad said:

statefan91 said:

WolfQuacker said:

wilmwolf80 said:

I think the thing that a lot of people fail to understand is that they typically don't know what they are walking into until they get there, and sometimes it changes quickly. I definitely think every situation doesn't require armed intervention, and there should be more counselor, negotiator types involved, particularly in domestic or mental health situations, but the reality is that they just don't know if or when a situation is going to turn.
Yeah, that was my sarcasm. These poor officers most likely did not arrive with a shootout in mind. They are called upon regularly to do this type of thing and never know what they are going to face. Doubtful any other organization or group would have resulted in a different outcome without some additional information going in. But are unarmed counselor/negotiators going to be willing to face that unknown on a regular basis? I know I wouldn't.


Who knows, but obviously some people don't react well to police and maybe this is a situation where a counselor going to check-in would have been INTERPRETED as less threatening than this person's obvious reaction to a police officer.


Do you think people that don't respond well to police are going to respond well to police counselors? I don't.
Not sure. If it was a wellness check and the person has had issues with police before, maybe worth looking at an alternative. Maybe a counselor they've worked with before could perform the wellness check, or it could be a phone check-in first.
From news reports:

The sheriff identified the suspect as 32-year-old Isaac Alton Barnes. Sheriff Hagaman said deputies had been warned about Barnes in the past.
Sheriff Hagaman says he's convinced the suspect was planning to do something violent in nature - not particularly targeting officers - but possibly the public in general.
The sheriff says officers thought they were going into one situation and instead, the suspect was there.
"He was at the house, which we didn't think he would be," the sheriff said.
Sheriff Hagaman says the department has had some encounters with this suspect before - as they just had calls about this person Sunday.
"There was familiar concern that he might try to do something," Sheriff Hagaman said.
The sheriff says the suspect had a fairly large arsenal of weapons.



Yep. Should have sent in the counselor...
BBW12OG
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Still waiting on the responses for when these "counselors" are going to be used.

Cat in a tree?

Conveniently the same few folks that always seem to have an alligator mouth with ideas and a hummingbird ass for solutions are absent with answers.
TheStorm
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BBW12OG said:

Still waiting on the responses for when these "counselors" are going to be used.

Cat in a tree?

Conveniently the same few folks that always seem to have an alligator mouth with ideas and a hummingbird ass for solutions are absent with answers.
I see that you somehow survived "the purge"...
hokiewolf
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BBW12OG said:

Still waiting on the responses for when these "counselors" are going to be used.

Cat in a tree?

Conveniently the same few folks that always seem to have an alligator mouth with ideas and a hummingbird ass for solutions are absent with answers.
. Several people have answered this question
BBW12OG
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TheStorm said:

BBW12OG said:

Still waiting on the responses for when these "counselors" are going to be used.

Cat in a tree?

Conveniently the same few folks that always seem to have an alligator mouth with ideas and a hummingbird ass for solutions are absent with answers.
I see that you somehow survived "the purge"...
Never even got an email. I never broke the rules. I merely pointed out the double standard. Nothing surprising though!

Who has answered it? Please show your work. Yet again you make a statement and do nothing to support your claim.

Link? Quote? I have yet to see anyone answer that question.
pineknollshoresking
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BBW, you know these people are not sophisticated enough to challenge your points. They all communicate well; however, no substance is ever conveyed.

I'm with you brother...
RunsWithWolves26
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There was a purge?
hokiewolf
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BBW12OG said:

TheStorm said:

BBW12OG said:

Still waiting on the responses for when these "counselors" are going to be used.

Cat in a tree?

Conveniently the same few folks that always seem to have an alligator mouth with ideas and a hummingbird ass for solutions are absent with answers.
I see that you somehow survived "the purge"...
Never even got an email. I never broke the rules. I merely pointed out the double standard. Nothing surprising though!

Who has answered it? Please show your work. Yet again you make a statement and do nothing to support your claim.

Link? Quote? I have yet to see anyone answer that question.
Quote:

BBW12OG said:
So when do these "community officers" handle a call?

You lefties are something else.....
hokiewolf said:
probably never. In my ideal world there more robust mental health services offered so that these type of situations occur less.

Also, no one has said anything about defunding the police in this thread or any other thread for community officers because it's a dumb premise.
BBW12OG
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hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

TheStorm said:

BBW12OG said:

Still waiting on the responses for when these "counselors" are going to be used.

Cat in a tree?

Conveniently the same few folks that always seem to have an alligator mouth with ideas and a hummingbird ass for solutions are absent with answers.
I see that you somehow survived "the purge"...
Never even got an email. I never broke the rules. I merely pointed out the double standard. Nothing surprising though!

Who has answered it? Please show your work. Yet again you make a statement and do nothing to support your claim.

Link? Quote? I have yet to see anyone answer that question.
Quote:

BBW12OG said:
So when do these "community officers" handle a call?

You lefties are something else.....
hokiewolf said:
probably never. In my ideal world there more robust mental health services offered so that these type of situations occur less.

Also, no one has said anything about defunding the police in this thread or any other thread for community officers because it's a dumb premise.
You are full of quotes that have absolutely no substance or answers to my question. Let me slow it down for you....try and keep up....

WHAT TYPE OF CALLS DO YOU WANT THE UNARMED COUNSELORS TO GO ON?

I'm not sure I can explain that any slower or any better. You and the rest of your lefty brethren once again are full of great imaginary solutions but you have not put the foresight and thought into how making those asinine solutions come to pass.

So once again you are flailing like a fish out of water. We have come to expect that from you when you can't refute, debate or come up with a logical counterpoint. I was hoping it was due to late night drinks but it's 11:20 a.m. Either you are still half in the bag or worse yet that's as good as you can come up with.
WPNfamily
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pineknollshoresking said:

Civilized said:

hokiewolf said:

Because it's a dumb idea. You're past the point of prevention in this case

Yep. No one is arguing that unarmed community officers should handle situations like this.
You all do know I'm joking, right?


Bro my sarcasm meter was going wild.

I think some peeps may have missed it though.
hokiewolf
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BBW12OG said:

hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

TheStorm said:

BBW12OG said:

Still waiting on the responses for when these "counselors" are going to be used.

Cat in a tree?

Conveniently the same few folks that always seem to have an alligator mouth with ideas and a hummingbird ass for solutions are absent with answers.
I see that you somehow survived "the purge"...
Never even got an email. I never broke the rules. I merely pointed out the double standard. Nothing surprising though!

Who has answered it? Please show your work. Yet again you make a statement and do nothing to support your claim.

Link? Quote? I have yet to see anyone answer that question.
Quote:

BBW12OG said:
So when do these "community officers" handle a call?

You lefties are something else.....
hokiewolf said:
probably never. In my ideal world there more robust mental health services offered so that these type of situations occur less.

Also, no one has said anything about defunding the police in this thread or any other thread for community officers because it's a dumb premise.
You are full of quotes that have absolutely no substance or answers to my question. Let me slow it down for you....try and keep up....

WHAT TYPE OF CALLS DO YOU WANT THE UNARMED COUNSELORS TO GO ON?

I'm not sure I can explain that any slower or any better. You and the rest of your lefty brethren once again are full of great imaginary solutions but you have not put the foresight and thought into how making those asinine solutions come to pass.

So once again you are flailing like a fish out of water. We have come to expect that from you when you can't refute, debate or come up with a logical counterpoint. I was hoping it was due to late night drinks but it's 11:20 a.m. Either you are still half in the bag or worse yet that's as good as you can come up with.

are you ok today? You asked the same question yesterday what types of calls unarmed counselors should respond to and I replied with none because at the point such as the topic at hand, you're past the point of prevention where a counselor would have some sort of sway in preventing an armed standoff or shooting.

I don't think anyone here is arguing That this would be good policy. There is an argument by me and others that there should be more preventative measures with respect to mental health issues that could be applied and possibly eliminate the situation like what happened in Boone. Damn man, you got your panties in an uproar for me agreeing with you that sending unarmed people to a standoff is a bad idea.
pineknollshoresking
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hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

hokiewolf said:

BBW12OG said:

TheStorm said:

BBW12OG said:

Still waiting on the responses for when these "counselors" are going to be used.

Cat in a tree?

Conveniently the same few folks that always seem to have an alligator mouth with ideas and a hummingbird ass for solutions are absent with answers.
I see that you somehow survived "the purge"...
Never even got an email. I never broke the rules. I merely pointed out the double standard. Nothing surprising though!

Who has answered it? Please show your work. Yet again you make a statement and do nothing to support your claim.

Link? Quote? I have yet to see anyone answer that question.
Quote:

BBW12OG said:
So when do these "community officers" handle a call?

You lefties are something else.....
hokiewolf said:
probably never. In my ideal world there more robust mental health services offered so that these type of situations occur less.

Also, no one has said anything about defunding the police in this thread or any other thread for community officers because it's a dumb premise.
You are full of quotes that have absolutely no substance or answers to my question. Let me slow it down for you....try and keep up....

WHAT TYPE OF CALLS DO YOU WANT THE UNARMED COUNSELORS TO GO ON?

I'm not sure I can explain that any slower or any better. You and the rest of your lefty brethren once again are full of great imaginary solutions but you have not put the foresight and thought into how making those asinine solutions come to pass.

So once again you are flailing like a fish out of water. We have come to expect that from you when you can't refute, debate or come up with a logical counterpoint. I was hoping it was due to late night drinks but it's 11:20 a.m. Either you are still half in the bag or worse yet that's as good as you can come up with.

are you ok today? You asked the same question yesterday what types of calls unarmed counselors should respond to and I replied with none because at the point such as the topic at hand, you're past the point of prevention where a counselor would have some sort of sway in preventing an armed standoff or shooting.

I don't think anyone here is arguing That this would be good policy. There is an argument by me and others that there should be more preventative measures with respect to mental health issues that could be applied and possibly eliminate the situation like what happened in Boone. Damn man, you got your panties in an uproar for me agreeing with you that sending unarmed people to a standoff is a bad idea.
So, how would we implement mental health measures into our society? I keep hearing, from both sides of the aisle, that this needs to be done. How would any of us see this happening?

I'm not saying we don't have a mental health issue (in fact we may have some here), I'm just looking to hear how funding and implementation may happen. I truly don't know how to implement this...
hokiewolf
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It takes a paradigm shift in healthcare to provide those services more robustly and it's starting, at least in our area with Duke opening a new behavioral health emergency room and enlarging behavioral health space at Durham Regional.

Hospitals need a better balance of revenue vs providing the services needed in their communities regardless of revenue.
BBW12OG
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hokiewolf said:

It takes a paradigm shift in healthcare to provide those services more robustly and it's starting, at least in our area with Duke opening a new behavioral health emergency room and enlarging behavioral health space at Durham Regional.

Hospitals need a better balance of revenue vs providing the services needed in their communities regardless of revenue.
Where does this money come from?

Who is in charge?

Who are you employing?

Answer those. And your response earlier didn't warrant a reply. You are playing checkers and I've already beaten you at chess.

Laughable.
Bell Tower Grey
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pineknoll, with all due respect, I can see you showing your age somewhat. I'm 62, and remember when states had very good mental health programs - private practices, public availability, hospitals had dedicated units to treat mental health disorders, and even "gasp' - mental hospitals for those that needed short term, long term or even permanent resident care.

I don't have the answers as to why that important service has gone away, although I tend to place a lot of the blame on the love of $$$$ by some in government that over time, chose to re-allocate those funds to perhaps some of their "pet" projects which they stood to benefit from.....almost reminiscent of those wanting to defund the police, it seems.

It's going to take wholesale changes across the board - people and money wise - in order to reestablish a mental health network that will prove beneficial to those that need it. Right now, what we have is like putting a band-aid on a crack in the Hoover Dam....it's going to get worse before it gets better.

I'm not a mental health professional, however, I have a child as well as a former wife that both deal with mental health issues. Thankfully, they both are receiving the care that they need to lead fairly productive, yet very structured, lives.
hokiewolf
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BBW12OG said:

hokiewolf said:

It takes a paradigm shift in healthcare to provide those services more robustly and it's starting, at least in our area with Duke opening a new behavioral health emergency room and enlarging behavioral health space at Durham Regional.

Hospitals need a better balance of revenue vs providing the services needed in their communities regardless of revenue.
Where does this money come from?

Who is in charge?

Who are you employing?

Answer those. And your response earlier didn't warrant a reply. You are playing checkers and I've already beaten you at chess.

Laughable.
. Yeah, I'm not going to debate you anymore, it's not interesting to get brow beat to death.
Civilized
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Great post.
pineknollshoresking
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Bell Tower Grey said:

pineknoll, with all due respect, I can see you showing your age somewhat. I'm 62, and remember when states had very good mental health programs - private practices, public availability, hospitals had dedicated units to treat mental health disorders, and even "gasp' - mental hospitals for those that needed short term, long term or even permanent resident care.

I don't have the answers as to why that important service has gone away, although I tend to place a lot of the blame on the love of $$$$ by some in government that over time, chose to re-allocate those funds to perhaps some of their "pet" projects which they stood to benefit from.....almost reminiscent of those wanting to defund the police, it seems.

It's going to take wholesale changes across the board - people and money wise - in order to reestablish a mental health network that will prove beneficial to those that need it. Right now, what we have is like putting a band-aid on a crack in the Hoover Dam....it's going to get worse before it gets better.

I'm not a mental health professional, however, I have a child as well as a former wife that both deal with mental health issues. Thankfully, they both are receiving the care that they need to lead fairly productive, yet very structured, lives.
I'm 55.

I was really thinking about situation this thread started about. How would mental healthcare been implemented and saved us from a situation like we had?
hokiewolf
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You would hope that more availability for accute mental health care may have prevented what ever psychological break occurred that led to this kid killing his family and the officers. In theory, the welfare check would have never had to happen because the care he needed was more readily available
pineknollshoresking
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hokiewolf said:

You would hope that more availability for accute mental health care may have prevented what ever psychological break occurred that led to this kid killing his family and the officers. In theory, the welfare check would have never had to happen because the care he needed was more readily available
I hear you and I'm really not debating the issue. I actually believe somehow people need to obtain mental health services. I'm just wanting to understand how this type of healthcare service would have been administered.

I'm a process person. We can always come up with grandiose ideas; however, those ideas have to be met with someone laying the groundwork for its availability and implementation.

That's really all I'm asking about... In other words, idea identified, now how?
hokiewolf
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You have more of these types of resources available so that treatment goes smoothly. Where every service is in one spot and easy to get to

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article250603039.html
wofpac
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Bell Tower Grey said:

"pineknoll, with all due respect, I can see you showing your age somewhat. I'm 62, and remember when states had very good mental health programs - private practices, public availability, hospitals had dedicated units to treat mental health disorders, and even "gasp' - mental hospitals for those that needed short term, long term or even permanent resident care."

I am 73. As a surgeon, I treated many patients in and from the state and VA mental institutions.
In Virginia, there was Eastern State, Central State and Western State hospitals. The VA had mental institutions
in Salem and Newport News that housed about 1500 patients. There were many seriously mentally ill and
violent residents. Employment of leather restraints was a common necessity. These were a dangerous
place to work and reside. The vast majority were committed to the institution and not there on a voluntary
basis. For the most part, families were grateful that they were safe and the patient was being cared for.

I can't say with certainty why these places vanished. I suspect it was a combination of funding and an escalating
concern from lawyers and "socially conscious" groups who felt this system archaic and penal.

While these places existed, we had little homelessness. "Mass murders" were a curiosity. Murder/suicide
within the family was uncommon.

While these institutions were far from ideal, they were effective in limiting citizen exposure to mentally
unstable and frequently dangerous individuals. Unfortunately, there are individuals who cannot be
safely "managed" in an outpatient setting. Those folks need to be secured.
TheStorm
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pineknollshoresking said:

hokiewolf said:

You would hope that more availability for accute mental health care may have prevented what ever psychological break occurred that led to this kid killing his family and the officers. In theory, the welfare check would have never had to happen because the care he needed was more readily available
I hear you and I'm really not debating the issue. I actually believe somehow people need to obtain mental health services. I'm just wanting to understand how this type of healthcare service would have been administered.

I'm a process person. We can always come up with grandiose ideas; however, those ideas have to be met with someone laying the groundwork for its availability and implementation.

That's really all I'm asking about... In other words, idea identified, now how?
Don't waste your time PNS... the reason that all that support stopped is because the general public was accused of being... wait for it... yeah, you know what's coming... "discriminatory" against the mentally ill.

It's a complete circle of "passing the buck"... and it's wonderful... all unicorns and rainbows even!

Until it's not. Then it's somebody else's fault. Kind of like police officers interacting with career criminals who routinely (and sometimes violently) resist arrest or attempt to assault officers when they are only trying to do their jobs - which is protecting the law abiding citizens (or what's left of us anyway)...

"Coexist" (and yet they absolutely hate anybody with any differing viewpoint than them, no matter what)

"Loving Kindness" (another lie... "to seem rather than to be")

Hell, even France is tougher on crime right now than we are... Let that sink in for a minute!
pineknollshoresking
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TheStorm said:

pineknollshoresking said:

hokiewolf said:

You would hope that more availability for accute mental health care may have prevented what ever psychological break occurred that led to this kid killing his family and the officers. In theory, the welfare check would have never had to happen because the care he needed was more readily available
I hear you and I'm really not debating the issue. I actually believe somehow people need to obtain mental health services. I'm just wanting to understand how this type of healthcare service would have been administered.

I'm a process person. We can always come up with grandiose ideas; however, those ideas have to be met with someone laying the groundwork for its availability and implementation.

That's really all I'm asking about... In other words, idea identified, now how?
Don't waste your time PNS... the reason that all that support stopped is because the general public was accused of being... wait for it... yeah, you know what's coming... "discriminatory" against the mentally ill.

It's a complete circle of "passing the buck"... and it's wonderful... all unicorns and rainbows even!

Until it's not. Then it's somebody else's fault. Kind of like police officers interacting with career criminals who routinely (and sometimes violently) resist arrest or attempt to assault officers when they are only trying to do their jobs - which is protecting the law abiding citizens (or what's left of us anyway)...

"Coexist" (and yet they absolutely hate anybody with any differing viewpoint than them, no matter what)

"Loving Kindness" (another lie... "to seem rather than to be")

Hell, even France is tougher on crime right now than we are... Let that sink in for a minute!
As I said above, I willing to here ideas on how to implement Mental Health Services; however, what you just said will absolutely be the challenges for implementation.

Grandiose ideas are never easy to implement as you are going to put-off somebody. That being said, Mental Illness is a real concern; so, how would we implement the concern?

We need to quit talking in platitudes and get to the details of implementation!!!
Mormad
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Sorry, what was the known mental disorder of the murderer here?
BBW12OG
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Mormad said:

Sorry, what was the known mental disorder of the murderer here?
Exactly.....
pineknollshoresking
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Mormad said:

Sorry, what was the known mental disorder of the murderer here?
Great question. That being said, we have a mental health issue in this country and people, on this board, are looking for someone to step in.

Great! How?
Civilized
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Mormad said:

Sorry, what was the known mental disorder of the murderer here?

I don't know if it's been published specifically but the sheriff was quoted as saying the shooter was known to them and they knew he "had some issues" or something vague like that.

His family also knew he'd been recently amassing guns and they were worried about it.

As always, with mental health stuff a huge part of the challenge is convincing those in crisis that they actually need help, and also get them to accept help.

When your leg is broken, there's no denying it. With mental health disorders, getting the patient diagnosed and consistently treated is a huge hurdle.

Cthepack
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Civilized said:

Mormad said:

Sorry, what was the known mental disorder of the murderer here?

I don't know if it's been published specifically but the sheriff was quoted as saying the shooter was known to them and they knew he "had some issues" or something vague like that.

His family also knew he'd been recently amassing guns and they were worried about it.

As always, with mental health stuff a huge part of the challenge is convincing those in crisis that they actually need help, and also get them to accept help.

When your leg is broken, there's no denying it. With mental health disorders, getting the patient diagnosed and consistently treated is a huge hurdle.


Not only is it getting help but the help they do get is so inconsistent.
Mormad
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Civilized said:

Mormad said:

Sorry, what was the known mental disorder of the murderer here?

I don't know if it's been published specifically but the sheriff was quoted as saying the shooter was known to them and they knew he "had some issues" or something vague like that.

His family also knew he'd been recently amassing guns and they were worried about it.

As always, with mental health stuff a huge part of the challenge is convincing those in crisis that they actually need help, and also get them to accept help.

When your leg is broken, there's no denying it. With mental health disorders, getting the patient diagnosed and consistently treated is a huge hurdle.




Totally agree. I suspect that is the case the overwhelming majority of the time.
pineknollshoresking
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Civilized said:

Mormad said:

Sorry, what was the known mental disorder of the murderer here?

I don't know if it's been published specifically but the sheriff was quoted as saying the shooter was known to them and they knew he "had some issues" or something vague like that.

His family also knew he'd been recently amassing guns and they were worried about it.

As always, with mental health stuff a huge part of the challenge is convincing those in crisis that they actually need help, and also get them to accept help.

When your leg is broken, there's no denying it. With mental health disorders, getting the patient diagnosed and consistently treated is a huge hurdle.


So.... what do we do?
Bell Tower Grey
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PK, what exactly is it you're pushing for? Certainly you understand that these changes won't occur overnight, as much as all of us would like for that to happen.....as I said, I'm not a mental health expert, just a semi-retired businessman, but let me throw this out for a start:

First, a non-partisan group of politicians should listen to rank and file mental heath professionals about their concerns and suggestions on what changes should occur, and in what steps they should be implemented. Input from the rank and file is important, because they're the ones actually dealing with the mentally ill (of all degrees) on a regular basis. The "suits" above them, as is true in many professions /cases, really have no concept of exactly what is going on.

Second, once a multi-step implementation plan is made, it should be presented to both mental health professionals and state budget personnel in every state. Let them prioritize their own states' needs and determine how much funding is needed to get their own state programs implemented and on track. Those programs could / should include dedicated mental hospitals, as well as short / medium term treatment centers; acute treatment programs; client treatment follow up personnel; maybe even developing programs that can be implemented in middle and high school grades.

Third, and this would be the deal breaker most likely, allocation of federal and state funds to implement and run these programs. Personally, I would suggest a majority of those funds come from the failed "war on drugs". I'm sure there is enough pork elsewhere in government that the money is there - the problem is the self-serving interests of politicians of all parties, and getting them to think and act for the people that elected them, instead of their own selves.

Now, is that the right answer? Hell, I don't know, but you've continually asked "how" and "why" and "where", so I'm just laying this out there. It's a start, and perhaps it's a misguided one....then again, maybe it's not.
As I posted earlier, having known closely folks with mental illness, not everything works for everyone. But, I do know that doing nothing makes things worse. And a start of anything would hopefully be better than what we have now.

If this answer isn't a suitable proposition to you, then by all means, what do YOU suggest? I'm truly interested in your, and anyone else's, ideas. Thanks.
Cthepack
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pineknollshoresking said:

Civilized said:

Mormad said:

Sorry, what was the known mental disorder of the murderer here?

I don't know if it's been published specifically but the sheriff was quoted as saying the shooter was known to them and they knew he "had some issues" or something vague like that.

His family also knew he'd been recently amassing guns and they were worried about it.

As always, with mental health stuff a huge part of the challenge is convincing those in crisis that they actually need help, and also get them to accept help.

When your leg is broken, there's no denying it. With mental health disorders, getting the patient diagnosed and consistently treated is a huge hurdle.


So.... what do we do?


You should start by going to a mental health focused message board and get caught up all the issues instead of continuing to ask people on a sports focused message board what we should do about mental health.
pineknollshoresking
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Bell Tower Grey said:

PK, what exactly is it you're pushing for? Certainly you understand that these changes won't occur overnight, as much as all of us would like for that to happen.....as I said, I'm not a mental health expert, just a semi-retired businessman, but let me throw this out for a start:

First, a non-partisan group of politicians should listen to rank and file mental heath professionals about their concerns and suggestions on what changes should occur, and in what steps they should be implemented. Input from the rank and file is important, because they're the ones actually dealing with the mentally ill (of all degrees) on a regular basis. The "suits" above them, as is true in many professions /cases, really have no concept of exactly what is going on.

Second, once a multi-step implementation plan is made, it should be presented to both mental health professionals and state budget personnel in every state. Let them prioritize their own states' needs and determine how much funding is needed to get their own state programs implemented and on track. Those programs could / should include dedicated mental hospitals, as well as short / medium term treatment centers; acute treatment programs; client treatment follow up personnel; maybe even developing programs that can be implemented in middle and high school grades.

Third, and this would be the deal breaker most likely, allocation of federal and state funds to implement and run these programs. Personally, I would suggest a majority of those funds come from the failed "war on drugs". I'm sure there is enough pork elsewhere in government that the money is there - the problem is the self-serving interests of politicians of all parties, and getting them to think and act for the people that elected them, instead of their own selves.

Now, is that the right answer? Hell, I don't know, but you've continually asked "how" and "why" and "where", so I'm just laying this out there. It's a start, and perhaps it's a misguided one....then again, maybe it's not.
As I posted earlier, having known closely folks with mental illness, not everything works for everyone. But, I do know that doing nothing makes things worse. And a start of anything would hopefully be better than what we have now.

If this answer isn't a suitable proposition to you, then by all means, what do YOU suggest? I'm truly interested in your, and anyone else's, ideas. Thanks.
BTG, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You took a message and added some instruction to it. Thanks! The biggest problem, I see on boards like this, are people talking in platitudes (talking points) without considering how it might be done.

So, you provided the funding process... how to get people there is the difficult thing.

BTW, I have (actually he just recently passed) a relative that had a mental illness. He was a gentle person; however, when he was off, he was extremely difficult to deal with. It was a sad thing to witness. It broke my heart.
 
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