The Biden Administration

180,673 Views | 3573 Replies | Last: 6 hrs ago by Steve Videtich
BBW12OG
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And you see the lefties have run and hid. Again....

When asked the real questions about policy and where the MARXIST/COMMUNIST administration is taking this country they don't have the testicular fortitude to admit where they stand.

Lobbying for this administration and not having the guts to defend it is damn typical of the type of person that supports them. Always claiming to be a saint while doing nothing but flaunting grandiosity in the name of "public service."

Yeah...typical of the left. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds...

Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

ONE WOLF. ONE PACK.

"All silencing of discussion is an assumption of infallibility" - John Stuart Mill - renowned SOCIALIST....
cowboypack02
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DrummerboyWolf said:

cowboypack02 said:


Imagine if Patton called the Japanese before the bombs got dropped during WW2 and gave them a heads up that it could happen and if it did that he would warn them. Patton would of been strung up on the front lawn of the White House.


Patton's battles were mainly against the Germans. I am pretty sure he did not fight any battles in the Pacific in WWII. Your point is well made and noted.


You are correct. In my mind the most notable general of WW2 was Patton and the most recognizable action the the US took was to drop the bombs. Thanks for getting the point I was trying to make
caryking
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Damn, the Democrats will do anything they can to take the eye of the Afghan withdrawal! Hell, let's put out a book (I know, this is drawing a conclusion) to create a news cycle!
Oldsouljer
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caryking said:

Damn, the Democrats will do anything they can to take the eye of the Afghan withdrawal! Hell, let's put out a book (I know, this is drawing a conclusion) to create a news cycle!
Not sure a story with a military angle (Milley) accomplishes that.
caryking
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Oldsouljer said:

caryking said:

Damn, the Democrats will do anything they can to take the eye of the Afghan withdrawal! Hell, let's put out a book (I know, this is drawing a conclusion) to create a news cycle!
Not sure a story with a military angle (Milley) accomplishes that.
I understand. I think it is so obvious that Dems will do anything to change the storylines!
BBW12OG
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Yeah... forget about the border, inflation, Sleepy Joe's "controller", $3.5 trillion SOCIALSIT wish list, Horizontal "Cackling Hyena" Harris' NO SHOW work ethic..... I mean come' on man... what the hell....

Trump tweeted mean things and hurt a few of the posters' precious little "feewlings..." That's all that matters... and polishing their halos and telling us rubes how uneducated and backwards we are!
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

ONE WOLF. ONE PACK.

"All silencing of discussion is an assumption of infallibility" - John Stuart Mill - renowned SOCIALIST....
Civilized
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Steve Videtich said:


That response tells me more about your feelings on this entire topic than anything else you could've said.

The very definition of a great response.
Steve Videtich
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Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


That response tells me more about your feelings on this entire topic than anything else you could've said.

The very definition of a great response.


Wasn't meant as a compliment.
Civilized
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Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?
Cthepack
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Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


Lots of words used to not answer his first question of Why would the Russians want to benefit Trump.
cowboypack02
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Cthepack said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


Lots of words used to not answer his first question of Why would the Russians want to benefit Trump.


I'll take this one. It was testified to that the Russians put out misinformation about both Trump and Clinton as the ultimate goal was to create discord within the country. It was also testified to that is Clinton had won the election you would of seen disinformation the other was.

You don't have to believe me. You can go watch the testimony like I did
Steve Videtich
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Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


I didn't say that it did or didn't happen. But, your info is coming from sources, that to put it mildly, I don't trust. Based on what I've seen the last 3-4 years, I don't believe anything that the is produced by the democrats or the media that is on their leash. I wasnt there...you weren't there. Just like we don't know what happened around the recent election.

So, we are left to think for ourselves and dig through what's BS and what isn't. Obviously, Trump rubbed you the wrong way and shaped your opinion. That's fine and your right to believe that. I have chosen to look past pettiness and see what was happening with the country, for the good and bad. That's my right!

I also know that many of the lies that were told about Trump are being confirmed as just that, lies. It's funny that everything that was screamed about Trump (tyrant, fascist, dictator) is now actually coming true with this administration. So, now, go back and answer Caryking's original question.
Civilized
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Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


That response tells me more about your feelings on this entire topic than anything else you could've said.

The very definition of a great response.

Wasn't meant as a compliment.
Civilized
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cowboypack02 said:

Cthepack said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


Lots of words used to not answer his first question of Why would the Russians want to benefit Trump.


I'll take this one. It was testified to that the Russians put out misinformation about both Trump and Clinton as the ultimate goal was to create discord within the country. It was also testified to that is Clinton had won the election you would of seen disinformation the other was.

I don't know what this means. It sounds like you're trying to make it seem like the Russians either intended to, or actually did, negatively impact the Trump and Clinton campaigns equitably. That's demonstrably false.

Directly from the Select Senate Intelligence committee report:

The Committee found that the IRA sought to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election by harming Hillary Clinton's chances of success and supporting Donald Trump at the direction of the Kremlin.


The Committee found that the IRA's information warfare campaign was broad in scope and entailed objectives beyond the result of the 2016 presidential election. Further, the Committee's analysis of the IRA's activities on social media supports the key judgments of the January 6, 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment, "Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections," that "Russia's, goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency."

The Russians intended to harm Clinton and help Trump, and they succeeded in that goal.
caryking
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Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?
And these people call me a conspiracy theorist...
Civilized
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Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


I didn't say that it did or didn't happen. But, your info is coming from sources, that to put it mildly, I don't trust. Based on what I've seen the last 3-4 years, I don't believe anything that the is produced by the democrats or the media that is on their leash. I wasnt there...you weren't there. Just like we don't know what happened around the recent election.

So, we are left to think for ourselves and dig through what's BS and what isn't. Obviously, Trump rubbed you the wrong way and shaped your opinion. That's fine and your right to believe that. I have chosen to look past pettiness and see what was happening with the country, for the good and bad. That's my right!

I also know that many of the lies that were told about Trump are being confirmed as just that, lies. It's funny that everything that was screamed about Trump (tyrant, fascist, dictator) is now actually coming true with this administration. So, now, go back and answer Caryking's original question.

My sources are the Mueller Report and the Select Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 election.

What are your sources?
Steve Videtich
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Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


I didn't say that it did or didn't happen. But, your info is coming from sources, that to put it mildly, I don't trust. Based on what I've seen the last 3-4 years, I don't believe anything that the is produced by the democrats or the media that is on their leash. I wasnt there...you weren't there. Just like we don't know what happened around the recent election.

So, we are left to think for ourselves and dig through what's BS and what isn't. Obviously, Trump rubbed you the wrong way and shaped your opinion. That's fine and your right to believe that. I have chosen to look past pettiness and see what was happening with the country, for the good and bad. That's my right!

I also know that many of the lies that were told about Trump are being confirmed as just that, lies. It's funny that everything that was screamed about Trump (tyrant, fascist, dictator) is now actually coming true with this administration. So, now, go back and answer Caryking's original question.

My sources are the Mueller Report and the Select Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 election.

What are your sources?


https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

https://brooks.house.gov/media-center/news-releases/case-closed-mueller-report-proves-fake-news-media-and-socialist-democrats

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/24/706385781/mueller-report-finds-no-evidence-of-russian-collusion

And Finally!

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/443349-mueller-report-proves-that-its-time-to-investigate-the-investigators

See, this is my point! There's so much BS on both sides. So we're left to our own devices to wade through it!
Packchem91
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Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


I didn't say that it did or didn't happen. But, your info is coming from sources, that to put it mildly, I don't trust. Based on what I've seen the last 3-4 years, I don't believe anything that the is produced by the democrats or the media that is on their leash. I wasnt there...you weren't there. Just like we don't know what happened around the recent election.

So, we are left to think for ourselves and dig through what's BS and what isn't. Obviously, Trump rubbed you the wrong way and shaped your opinion. That's fine and your right to believe that. I have chosen to look past pettiness and see what was happening with the country, for the good and bad. That's my right!

I also know that many of the lies that were told about Trump are being confirmed as just that, lies. It's funny that everything that was screamed about Trump (tyrant, fascist, dictator) is now actually coming true with this administration. So, now, go back and answer Caryking's original question.

My sources are the Mueller Report and the Select Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 election.

What are your sources?


https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

https://brooks.house.gov/media-center/news-releases/case-closed-mueller-report-proves-fake-news-media-and-socialist-democrats

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/24/706385781/mueller-report-finds-no-evidence-of-russian-collusion

And Finally!

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/443349-mueller-report-proves-that-its-time-to-investigate-the-investigators

See, this is my point! There's so much BS on both sides. So we're left to our own devices to wade through it!
So couldn't both of you be right? I mean, the long game, for the Russians, is not 4 years. Its to create a country of discord and complete chaos.

With as much hatred as Trump generated over the last 4 years, its easy to forget that HRC would have generated every bit as much, and as strong, hatred from half of America (minus the media) had she won. And not because she was a woman, but because she was every bit as despicable a human as Trump was and her sheer being (and that dayumed crazy grin and hyena'ish laugh of hers) created hate.

So the Russians could play both sides of the fence, do damaging things to both. Hey, if people find out later they were influencing one side or another....create even more discord, because they'll blame the sitting POTUS.
packgrad
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BBW12OG
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Dobrye Utro Comrades... since you lefties must have "mistakenly" overlooked the questions I asked you yesterday I will post them again. Have at it comrades.

1 - How do you feel about "open borders" and how the Sleepy Joe administration has handled them?

2 - How do you feel about "my body, my choice" on abortion but yet not for vaccines?

3 - The party of science wants abortions up until birth. Where do you stand?

4 - The party of science also says "birthing persons" instead of women. How many sexes do you think exist?

5 - The lefties say the Supreme Court has been "packed" but yet they want to expand it with liberals? Explain.

6 - The lefties want to abolish the filibuster and move the country to "single party rule" and have admitted it. Where do you stand on this?

7 - Adding Puerto Rico and D.C. will give the lefties ( 4 ) Senate seats ensure they will control the Senate forever. How do you feel about that?

8 - Guaranteed Basic Income, which many of you may benefit from, is a SOCIALIST policy. What's your take?

9 - The $3.5 Trillion Dollar MARXIST/COMMUNIST spending plan including bail outs of broke blue states, The Green New Deal, FREE childcare, FREE community college, FREE healthcare for illegal immigrants, FREE college for illegal immigrants, amnesty for illegal immigrants and voting rights for illegal immigrants. Please justify these.
Big Bad Wolf. OG...2002

ONE WOLF. ONE PACK.

"All silencing of discussion is an assumption of infallibility" - John Stuart Mill - renowned SOCIALIST....
TheStorm
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packgrad said:


Meh. I thought the California recall was about as stupid as the two Trump impeachments.

I do however agree on the hypocrisy regarding Elder's race... a "black, white supremacist", now that's a new one on me. Media went on an all out blitz those last couple of weeks against him. Just like they did George Bush (when he was President ) and now any other Republican running going forward.
caryking
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TheStorm said:

packgrad said:


Meh. I thought the California recall was about as stupid as the two Trump impeachments.

I do however agree on the hypocrisy regarding Elder's race... a "black, white supremacist", now that's a new one on me. Media went on an all out blitz those last couple of weeks against him. Just like they did George Bush (when he was President ) and now any other Republican running going forward.
a "black, white supremacist", now that's a new one on me.

Well, it shouldn't be... The first Slave trader was a black man! He was truly a black, white supremacist!! Actually, was that a capitalist? You know, they are one in the same, according to some...
Steve Videtich
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Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


I didn't say that it did or didn't happen. But, your info is coming from sources, that to put it mildly, I don't trust. Based on what I've seen the last 3-4 years, I don't believe anything that the is produced by the democrats or the media that is on their leash. I wasnt there...you weren't there. Just like we don't know what happened around the recent election.

So, we are left to think for ourselves and dig through what's BS and what isn't. Obviously, Trump rubbed you the wrong way and shaped your opinion. That's fine and your right to believe that. I have chosen to look past pettiness and see what was happening with the country, for the good and bad. That's my right!

I also know that many of the lies that were told about Trump are being confirmed as just that, lies. It's funny that everything that was screamed about Trump (tyrant, fascist, dictator) is now actually coming true with this administration. So, now, go back and answer Caryking's original question.

My sources are the Mueller Report and the Select Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 election.

What are your sources?


https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

https://brooks.house.gov/media-center/news-releases/case-closed-mueller-report-proves-fake-news-media-and-socialist-democrats

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/24/706385781/mueller-report-finds-no-evidence-of-russian-collusion

And Finally!

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/443349-mueller-report-proves-that-its-time-to-investigate-the-investigators

See, this is my point! There's so much BS on both sides. So we're left to our own devices to wade through it!
So couldn't both of you be right? I mean, the long game, for the Russians, is not 4 years. Its to create a country of discord and complete chaos.

With as much hatred as Trump generated over the last 4 years, its easy to forget that HRC would have generated every bit as much, and as strong, hatred from half of America (minus the media) had she won. And not because she was a woman, but because she was every bit as despicable a human as Trump was and her sheer being (and that dayumed crazy grin and hyena'ish laugh of hers) created hate.

So the Russians could play both sides of the fence, do damaging things to both. Hey, if people find out later they were influencing one side or another....create even more discord, because they'll blame the sitting POTUS.



Civ, is trying to say there was collusion. I don't know that that is true. Interference is quite possible. But knowing what we know now, how can you say without a shadow of a doubt that there was collusion to Trump's benefit.

I believe that Hillary lost the election in 2016 because people were fed up with traditional politicians and wanted something different perit's different. Then in 2020, enough people on the fence were rubbed wrong by Trump's antics that it cost him a lot of votes.
caryking
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Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


I didn't say that it did or didn't happen. But, your info is coming from sources, that to put it mildly, I don't trust. Based on what I've seen the last 3-4 years, I don't believe anything that the is produced by the democrats or the media that is on their leash. I wasnt there...you weren't there. Just like we don't know what happened around the recent election.

So, we are left to think for ourselves and dig through what's BS and what isn't. Obviously, Trump rubbed you the wrong way and shaped your opinion. That's fine and your right to believe that. I have chosen to look past pettiness and see what was happening with the country, for the good and bad. That's my right!

I also know that many of the lies that were told about Trump are being confirmed as just that, lies. It's funny that everything that was screamed about Trump (tyrant, fascist, dictator) is now actually coming true with this administration. So, now, go back and answer Caryking's original question.

My sources are the Mueller Report and the Select Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 election.

What are your sources?


https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

https://brooks.house.gov/media-center/news-releases/case-closed-mueller-report-proves-fake-news-media-and-socialist-democrats

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/24/706385781/mueller-report-finds-no-evidence-of-russian-collusion

And Finally!

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/443349-mueller-report-proves-that-its-time-to-investigate-the-investigators

See, this is my point! There's so much BS on both sides. So we're left to our own devices to wade through it!
So couldn't both of you be right? I mean, the long game, for the Russians, is not 4 years. Its to create a country of discord and complete chaos.

With as much hatred as Trump generated over the last 4 years, its easy to forget that HRC would have generated every bit as much, and as strong, hatred from half of America (minus the media) had she won. And not because she was a woman, but because she was every bit as despicable a human as Trump was and her sheer being (and that dayumed crazy grin and hyena'ish laugh of hers) created hate.

So the Russians could play both sides of the fence, do damaging things to both. Hey, if people find out later they were influencing one side or another....create even more discord, because they'll blame the sitting POTUS.



Civ, is trying to say there was collusion. I don't know that that is true. Interference is quite possible. But knowing what we know now, how can you say without a shadow of a doubt that there was collusion to Trump's benefit.

I believe that Hillary lost the election in 2016 because people were fed up with traditional politicians and wanted something different perit's different. Then in 2020, enough people on the fence were rubbed wrong by Trump's antics that it cost him a lot of votes.
The bolded may be true; however, multiple States are going through election audits. Even through the court cases, so many have quoted, these States have seen enough evidence to go through a validation (True Audit) of what they are seeing. I don't know, for sure, either way, whether we had election fraud, or not. That being said, if each of these states, go through an audit process, and find fraud, they will let us know.

The question is: Will people believe their audits? Probably not!
DrummerboyWolf
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caryking said:

Steve Videtich said:



Civ, is trying to say there was collusion. I don't know that that is true. Interference is quite possible. But knowing what we know now, how can you say without a shadow of a doubt that there was collusion to Trump's benefit.

I believe that Hillary lost the election in 2016 because people were fed up with traditional politicians and wanted something different perit's different. Then in 2020, enough people on the fence were rubbed wrong by Trump's antics that it cost him a lot of votes.
The bolded may be true; however, multiple States are going through election audits. Even through the court cases, so many have quoted, these States have seen enough evidence to go through a validation (True Audit) of what they are seeing. I don't know, for sure, either way, whether we had election fraud, or not. That being said, if each of these states, go through an audit process, and find fraud, they will let us know.

The question is: Will people believe their audits? Probably not!
There was election fraud and it will be proven. Despite what you might see here or on the MSM, the election was stolen. Look for Pennsylvania to release subpoena lists today or tomorrow. If PA goes through with a true forensic audit, then it will be big. Arizona is close to releasing, Georgia is setting the stage as well as Wisconsin and possibly Michigan.

https://rumble.com/vmiqlw-full-list-of-subpoenas-going-out-wednesday-in-pa.html
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
caryking
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DrummerboyWolf said:

caryking said:

Steve Videtich said:



Civ, is trying to say there was collusion. I don't know that that is true. Interference is quite possible. But knowing what we know now, how can you say without a shadow of a doubt that there was collusion to Trump's benefit.

I believe that Hillary lost the election in 2016 because people were fed up with traditional politicians and wanted something different perit's different. Then in 2020, enough people on the fence were rubbed wrong by Trump's antics that it cost him a lot of votes.
The bolded may be true; however, multiple States are going through election audits. Even through the court cases, so many have quoted, these States have seen enough evidence to go through a validation (True Audit) of what they are seeing. I don't know, for sure, either way, whether we had election fraud, or not. That being said, if each of these states, go through an audit process, and find fraud, they will let us know.

The question is: Will people believe their audits? Probably not!
There was election fraud and it will be proven. Despite what you might see here or on the MSM, the election was stolen. Look for Pennsylvania to release subpoena lists today or tomorrow. If PA goes through with a true forensic audit, then it will be big. Arizona is close to releasing, Georgia is setting the stage as well as Wisconsin and possibly Michigan.

https://rumble.com/vmiqlw-full-list-of-subpoenas-going-out-wednesday-in-pa.html
Drummer, you are such a conspiracy theorist!!!
DrummerboyWolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
caryking said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

caryking said:

Steve Videtich said:



Civ, is trying to say there was collusion. I don't know that that is true. Interference is quite possible. But knowing what we know now, how can you say without a shadow of a doubt that there was collusion to Trump's benefit.

I believe that Hillary lost the election in 2016 because people were fed up with traditional politicians and wanted something different perit's different. Then in 2020, enough people on the fence were rubbed wrong by Trump's antics that it cost him a lot of votes.
The bolded may be true; however, multiple States are going through election audits. Even through the court cases, so many have quoted, these States have seen enough evidence to go through a validation (True Audit) of what they are seeing. I don't know, for sure, either way, whether we had election fraud, or not. That being said, if each of these states, go through an audit process, and find fraud, they will let us know.

The question is: Will people believe their audits? Probably not!
There was election fraud and it will be proven. Despite what you might see here or on the MSM, the election was stolen. Look for Pennsylvania to release subpoena lists today or tomorrow. If PA goes through with a true forensic audit, then it will be big. Arizona is close to releasing, Georgia is setting the stage as well as Wisconsin and possibly Michigan.

https://rumble.com/vmiqlw-full-list-of-subpoenas-going-out-wednesday-in-pa.html
Drummer, you are such a conspiracy theorist!!!
I know, everybody has to be something right? Of course anybody with a brain could see it if they wanted to. The information is out there.
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
Oldsouljer
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Civilized said:

cowboypack02 said:

Cthepack said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


Lots of words used to not answer his first question of Why would the Russians want to benefit Trump.


I'll take this one. It was testified to that the Russians put out misinformation about both Trump and Clinton as the ultimate goal was to create discord within the country. It was also testified to that is Clinton had won the election you would of seen disinformation the other was.

I don't know what this means. It sounds like you're trying to make it seem like the Russians either intended to, or actually did, negatively impact the Trump and Clinton campaigns equitably. That's demonstrably false.

Directly from the Select Senate Intelligence committee report:

The Committee found that the IRA sought to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election by harming Hillary Clinton's chances of success and supporting Donald Trump at the direction of the Kremlin.


The Committee found that the IRA's information warfare campaign was broad in scope and entailed objectives beyond the result of the 2016 presidential election. Further, the Committee's analysis of the IRA's activities on social media supports the key judgments of the January 6, 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment, "Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections," that "Russia's, goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency."

The Russians intended to harm Clinton and help Trump, and they succeeded in that goal.

Doubtful on two counts. Head of Senate Intel was Richard Burr, no friend of Trump, and second, there is a question of motive. Russians had zero motive to go against Clinton, especially with the profitable arrangements (I.e.- Uranium One) they had with her as Secretary of State. The Russians knew and know perfectly well that Clinton isn't and never was motivated by what is best for her country.
Steve Videtich
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DrummerboyWolf said:

caryking said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

caryking said:

Steve Videtich said:



Civ, is trying to say there was collusion. I don't know that that is true. Interference is quite possible. But knowing what we know now, how can you say without a shadow of a doubt that there was collusion to Trump's benefit.

I believe that Hillary lost the election in 2016 because people were fed up with traditional politicians and wanted something different perit's different. Then in 2020, enough people on the fence were rubbed wrong by Trump's antics that it cost him a lot of votes.
The bolded may be true; however, multiple States are going through election audits. Even through the court cases, so many have quoted, these States have seen enough evidence to go through a validation (True Audit) of what they are seeing. I don't know, for sure, either way, whether we had election fraud, or not. That being said, if each of these states, go through an audit process, and find fraud, they will let us know.

The question is: Will people believe their audits? Probably not!
There was election fraud and it will be proven. Despite what you might see here or on the MSM, the election was stolen. Look for Pennsylvania to release subpoena lists today or tomorrow. If PA goes through with a true forensic audit, then it will be big. Arizona is close to releasing, Georgia is setting the stage as well as Wisconsin and possibly Michigan.

https://rumble.com/vmiqlw-full-list-of-subpoenas-going-out-wednesday-in-pa.html
Drummer, you are such a conspiracy theorist!!!
I know, everybody has to be something right? Of course anybody with a brain could see it if they wanted to. The information is out there.


Ha, I'm not saying either one of you are wrong. Like I said earlier, if 1 oz of the ounce of these stories had come out had come out and trump had won the election, they'd be screaming still to this day about the election fraud and being stolen.. Carry on gentlemen !
DrummerboyWolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Steve Videtich said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

caryking said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

caryking said:

Steve Videtich said:



Civ, is trying to say there was collusion. I don't know that that is true. Interference is quite possible. But knowing what we know now, how can you say without a shadow of a doubt that there was collusion to Trump's benefit.

I believe that Hillary lost the election in 2016 because people were fed up with traditional politicians and wanted something different perit's different. Then in 2020, enough people on the fence were rubbed wrong by Trump's antics that it cost him a lot of votes.
The bolded may be true; however, multiple States are going through election audits. Even through the court cases, so many have quoted, these States have seen enough evidence to go through a validation (True Audit) of what they are seeing. I don't know, for sure, either way, whether we had election fraud, or not. That being said, if each of these states, go through an audit process, and find fraud, they will let us know.

The question is: Will people believe their audits? Probably not!
There was election fraud and it will be proven. Despite what you might see here or on the MSM, the election was stolen. Look for Pennsylvania to release subpoena lists today or tomorrow. If PA goes through with a true forensic audit, then it will be big. Arizona is close to releasing, Georgia is setting the stage as well as Wisconsin and possibly Michigan.

https://rumble.com/vmiqlw-full-list-of-subpoenas-going-out-wednesday-in-pa.html
Drummer, you are such a conspiracy theorist!!!
I know, everybody has to be something right? Of course anybody with a brain could see it if they wanted to. The information is out there.


Ha, I'm not saying either one of you are wrong. Like I said earlier, if 1 oz of the ounce of these stories had come out had come out and trump had won the election, they'd be screaming still to this day about the election fraud and being stolen.. Carry on gentlemen !
You are correct about Trump. They did squeal after 2016 because Hillary was "guaranteed" to win, but the election fraud was stopped.
Being an N. C. State Fan Builds Great Character
caryking
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Steve Videtich said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

caryking said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

caryking said:

Steve Videtich said:



Civ, is trying to say there was collusion. I don't know that that is true. Interference is quite possible. But knowing what we know now, how can you say without a shadow of a doubt that there was collusion to Trump's benefit.

I believe that Hillary lost the election in 2016 because people were fed up with traditional politicians and wanted something different perit's different. Then in 2020, enough people on the fence were rubbed wrong by Trump's antics that it cost him a lot of votes.
The bolded may be true; however, multiple States are going through election audits. Even through the court cases, so many have quoted, these States have seen enough evidence to go through a validation (True Audit) of what they are seeing. I don't know, for sure, either way, whether we had election fraud, or not. That being said, if each of these states, go through an audit process, and find fraud, they will let us know.

The question is: Will people believe their audits? Probably not!
There was election fraud and it will be proven. Despite what you might see here or on the MSM, the election was stolen. Look for Pennsylvania to release subpoena lists today or tomorrow. If PA goes through with a true forensic audit, then it will be big. Arizona is close to releasing, Georgia is setting the stage as well as Wisconsin and possibly Michigan.

https://rumble.com/vmiqlw-full-list-of-subpoenas-going-out-wednesday-in-pa.html
Drummer, you are such a conspiracy theorist!!!
I know, everybody has to be something right? Of course anybody with a brain could see it if they wanted to. The information is out there.


Ha, I'm not saying either one of you are wrong. Like I said earlier, if 1 oz of the ounce of these stories had come out had come out and trump had won the election, they'd be screaming still to this day about the election fraud and being stolen.. Carry on gentlemen !
At this point, I'm not saying I'm right! What I am saying is: stuffs happening and we will see the results! I have mostly been saying this prior to January 20th. People like Chem and Civ just spew BS about everything.

People are seeing certain things, as they are closer to the situation, than I am. I'm listening and reporting what I hear. As I have said, we will see if they have something...
Steve Videtich
How long do you want to ignore this user?
caryking said:

Steve Videtich said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

caryking said:

DrummerboyWolf said:

caryking said:

Steve Videtich said:



Civ, is trying to say there was collusion. I don't know that that is true. Interference is quite possible. But knowing what we know now, how can you say without a shadow of a doubt that there was collusion to Trump's benefit.

I believe that Hillary lost the election in 2016 because people were fed up with traditional politicians and wanted something different perit's different. Then in 2020, enough people on the fence were rubbed wrong by Trump's antics that it cost him a lot of votes.
The bolded may be true; however, multiple States are going through election audits. Even through the court cases, so many have quoted, these States have seen enough evidence to go through a validation (True Audit) of what they are seeing. I don't know, for sure, either way, whether we had election fraud, or not. That being said, if each of these states, go through an audit process, and find fraud, they will let us know.

The question is: Will people believe their audits? Probably not!
There was election fraud and it will be proven. Despite what you might see here or on the MSM, the election was stolen. Look for Pennsylvania to release subpoena lists today or tomorrow. If PA goes through with a true forensic audit, then it will be big. Arizona is close to releasing, Georgia is setting the stage as well as Wisconsin and possibly Michigan.

https://rumble.com/vmiqlw-full-list-of-subpoenas-going-out-wednesday-in-pa.html
Drummer, you are such a conspiracy theorist!!!
I know, everybody has to be something right? Of course anybody with a brain could see it if they wanted to. The information is out there.


Ha, I'm not saying either one of you are wrong. Like I said earlier, if 1 oz of the ounce of these stories had come out had come out and trump had won the election, they'd be screaming still to this day about the election fraud and being stolen.. Carry on gentlemen !
At this point, I'm not saying I'm right! What I am saying is: stuffs happening and we will see the results! I have mostly been saying this prior to January 20th. People like Chem and Civ just spew BS about everything.

People are seeing certain things, as they are closer to the situation, than I am. I'm listening and reporting what I hear. As I have said, we will see if they have something...


Just don't get canceled for misinformation! LOL
caryking
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Folks, we better start paying attention...



Civilized
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


I didn't say that it did or didn't happen. But, your info is coming from sources, that to put it mildly, I don't trust. Based on what I've seen the last 3-4 years, I don't believe anything that the is produced by the democrats or the media that is on their leash. I wasnt there...you weren't there. Just like we don't know what happened around the recent election.

So, we are left to think for ourselves and dig through what's BS and what isn't. Obviously, Trump rubbed you the wrong way and shaped your opinion. That's fine and your right to believe that. I have chosen to look past pettiness and see what was happening with the country, for the good and bad. That's my right!

I also know that many of the lies that were told about Trump are being confirmed as just that, lies. It's funny that everything that was screamed about Trump (tyrant, fascist, dictator) is now actually coming true with this administration. So, now, go back and answer Caryking's original question.

My sources are the Mueller Report and the Select Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 election.

What are your sources?


https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

https://brooks.house.gov/media-center/news-releases/case-closed-mueller-report-proves-fake-news-media-and-socialist-democrats

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/24/706385781/mueller-report-finds-no-evidence-of-russian-collusion

And Finally!

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/443349-mueller-report-proves-that-its-time-to-investigate-the-investigators

See, this is my point! There's so much BS on both sides. So we're left to our own devices to wade through it!
So couldn't both of you be right? I mean, the long game, for the Russians, is not 4 years. Its to create a country of discord and complete chaos.

With as much hatred as Trump generated over the last 4 years, its easy to forget that HRC would have generated every bit as much, and as strong, hatred from half of America (minus the media) had she won. And not because she was a woman, but because she was every bit as despicable a human as Trump was and her sheer being (and that dayumed crazy grin and hyena'ish laugh of hers) created hate.

So the Russians could play both sides of the fence, do damaging things to both. Hey, if people find out later they were influencing one side or another....create even more discord, because they'll blame the sitting POTUS.



Civ, is trying to say there was collusion. I don't know that that is true. Interference is quite possible. But knowing what we know now, how can you say without a shadow of a doubt that there was collusion to Trump's benefit.

I believe that Hillary lost the election in 2016 because people were fed up with traditional politicians and wanted something different perit's different. Then in 2020, enough people on the fence were rubbed wrong by Trump's antics that it cost him a lot of votes.

That's not correct Steve.

I've never said there was collusion.

I said it was, and is, very reasonable to suspect and investigate collusion for the following reasons:

a. there is extremely clear consensus in the intelligence community that there was significant Russian interference (that Trump denied publicly until he couldn't any more);
b. Trump's team communicated and met directly with Russian nationals in Trump Towers for the express purpose of being delivered dirt on Clinton;
c. Trump was clearly aided by that information and Russia's interference;
d. Multiple Trump handlers went to prison for lying to investigators and obstructing justice;
e. Trump himself was likely shielded from an obstruction charge only by the stature of his office; and
f. Mueller didn't prove collusion but was clear that his findings weren't an exoneration

I agree with you that part of Trump's massive appeal is that he wasn't a traditional politician, and that Clinton was terribly unlikeable for a variety of reasons. Frankly I think both were terrible presidential candidates.

Where we disagree is the apparent need for people to live in this fantasy land where Trump's claims of MASSIVE election FRAUD in the STOLEN election - with zero evidence and that resulted in losing 69 of 70 lawsuits and getting his two biggest enablers sued for over a billion dollars each - have any merit, or are in any way similar to the collusion investigation and findings, given the significant Russian interference and direct ties to his team that were found by multiple investigations.
Packchem91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Steve Videtich said:

Packchem91 said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:

Civilized said:

Steve Videtich said:


First off, why would the Russians interfere with our election to the benefit of Trump? Trump has done no favors for Russia. Meanwhile, the Clinton's have received money directly from Putin. So, which side were they interfering for?


Wait, so you're actually denying the Russians interfered and that their interference benefitted Trump?

Set aside for a minute their massive social media misinformation campaign that favored Trump, and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.

When Trump, Kush, and Manafort met with Russian nationals in Trump Towers to receive details of information that would damage Clinton's campaign, what do you call that?

Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, Cohen, and Stone obstructed justice and made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their Russian contacts. Why would they do this if their contacts were proper?

Trump was briefed multiple times by our foreign intelligence agencies beginning in summer 2016 that Russia was attempting to interfere with the election. Why in subsequent months did he not report his teams' multiple contacts with Russian nationals and later deny even having Russian election-related contacts?

Am I misunderstanding you or are you really claiming Russian didn't interfere to help Trump?


I didn't say that it did or didn't happen. But, your info is coming from sources, that to put it mildly, I don't trust. Based on what I've seen the last 3-4 years, I don't believe anything that the is produced by the democrats or the media that is on their leash. I wasnt there...you weren't there. Just like we don't know what happened around the recent election.

So, we are left to think for ourselves and dig through what's BS and what isn't. Obviously, Trump rubbed you the wrong way and shaped your opinion. That's fine and your right to believe that. I have chosen to look past pettiness and see what was happening with the country, for the good and bad. That's my right!

I also know that many of the lies that were told about Trump are being confirmed as just that, lies. It's funny that everything that was screamed about Trump (tyrant, fascist, dictator) is now actually coming true with this administration. So, now, go back and answer Caryking's original question.

My sources are the Mueller Report and the Select Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 election.

What are your sources?


https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

https://brooks.house.gov/media-center/news-releases/case-closed-mueller-report-proves-fake-news-media-and-socialist-democrats

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/24/706385781/mueller-report-finds-no-evidence-of-russian-collusion

And Finally!

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/443349-mueller-report-proves-that-its-time-to-investigate-the-investigators

See, this is my point! There's so much BS on both sides. So we're left to our own devices to wade through it!
So couldn't both of you be right? I mean, the long game, for the Russians, is not 4 years. Its to create a country of discord and complete chaos.

With as much hatred as Trump generated over the last 4 years, its easy to forget that HRC would have generated every bit as much, and as strong, hatred from half of America (minus the media) had she won. And not because she was a woman, but because she was every bit as despicable a human as Trump was and her sheer being (and that dayumed crazy grin and hyena'ish laugh of hers) created hate.

So the Russians could play both sides of the fence, do damaging things to both. Hey, if people find out later they were influencing one side or another....create even more discord, because they'll blame the sitting POTUS.



Civ, is trying to say there was collusion. I don't know that that is true. Interference is quite possible. But knowing what we know now, how can you say without a shadow of a doubt that there was collusion to Trump's benefit.

I believe that Hillary lost the election in 2016 because people were fed up with traditional politicians and wanted something different perit's different. Then in 2020, enough people on the fence were rubbed wrong by Trump's antics that it cost him a lot of votes.
Yeah, collusion / interference....neither is a real good look. Re: Trump...purely guesswork here, but if you are Russia and you know he was going to move more "America first" and avoid some of the international role -- wouldn't you favor that?

As for the other statement -- I'm sure a change was part of it -- particularly in the primaries, but I think your statement underestimates the sheer dislike for HRC. She got caught up in dumb comments (deplorables) that turned people off. I always thought if the Dems had run Biden that year, he would have won over HRC. I know a lot of people try to poo-poo presidential behavior on this site, but people do consider that.
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