Steve Williams said:

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I think we've made some pretty good progress with this board. A year ago it was dead so it's come a long way. Hopefully it'll only improve with time.

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Hopefully the sports teams will do their part and maybe generate some more interest.

State fans have been starved for a winner for so long and disappointed so many times that I'm worried
the excitement might not be there like it used to be even if something good happens.

Pretty certain there's not much buzz about football now. No reason for it, really. TOB and then DD pretty much killed all the excitement that Chuck built, but at the end of the day, the ACC is a basketball conference and if Keatts somehow builds a winner, I hope the fan base still has some life in it.

packgrad said:

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Pacfanweb said:

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Steve Williams said:

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I think we've made some pretty good progress with this board. A year ago it was dead so it's come a long way. Hopefully it'll only improve with time.

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Hopefully the sports teams will do their part and maybe generate some more interest.

State fans have been starved for a winner for so long and disappointed so many times that I'm worried
the excitement might not be there like it used to be even if something good happens.

Pretty certain there's not much buzz about football now. No reason for it, really. TOB and then DD pretty much killed all the excitement that Chuck built, but at the end of the day, the ACC is a basketball conference and if Keatts somehow builds a winner, I hope the fan base still has some life in it.

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Maybe you should actually watch the football team. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

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I watched it. I've watched this guy for 8 years.

You know, it took him 8 years to pass Mike O'Cain in ACC wins, and even then it took a 10 game ACC season to do it.
I guess I just expect something different. It's not enough just to win 7-9 games (not that hard now) and go to a middling bowl and beat a middling opponent....but for many it seems to be good enough. Sad to see. We didn't used to be like that.

Pacfanweb said:

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packgrad said:

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Pacfanweb said:

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Steve Williams said:

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I think we've made some pretty good progress with this board. A year ago it was dead so it's come a long way. Hopefully it'll only improve with time.

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Hopefully the sports teams will do their part and maybe generate some more interest.

State fans have been starved for a winner for so long and disappointed so many times that I'm worried
the excitement might not be there like it used to be even if something good happens.

Pretty certain there's not much buzz about football now. No reason for it, really. TOB and then DD pretty much killed all the excitement that Chuck built, but at the end of the day, the ACC is a basketball conference and if Keatts somehow builds a winner, I hope the fan base still has some life in it.

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Maybe you should actually watch the football team. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

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I watched it. I've watched this guy for 8 years.

You know, it took him 8 years to pass Mike O'Cain in ACC wins, and even then it took a 10 game ACC season to do it.
I guess I just expect something different. It's not enough just to win 7-9 games (not that hard now) and go to a middling bowl and beat a middling opponent....but for many it seems to be good enough. Sad to see. We didn't used to be like that.

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Doeren had a bad first year but that's really the biggest knock against him. He's trended up significantly since then.

Even with a crazy, injury-decimated year in 2019 he's got the third-most ACC wins over the last four years in a 14-team league, and has finished in the top 25 two of the last four years.

Very, very few teams consistently win 8 or 9 games a season. Doeren appears to have us at a level we haven't seen since Sheridan, and that's a big compliment to him and his staff.

NC State football is 22 games over .500 in 128 years of playing football. We have ALWAYS been a middle of the road program. We are currently in one of the top 5 four year stretches in the history of our program. If we win a bowl game, we will have equaled Chuck's best four year stretch, not even considering how many FCS teams he played to get there. Things are pretty good right now. I'm sad for the people that can't appreciate that.

ETA: This should day Chuck's best five year stretch. His best five year stretch was 39 wins. A bowl win gets us to 38 the last five years.

Equaled Chuck's best 4 year stretch?
His best was 8, 7, 11, 8.

DD will be, if he wins a bowl, 9,4,9,9

He has 6 more wins overall than Chuck, but he's played one more season and 100 games vs Chuck's 86 to do it.

Pretty sure that's not equal. And come on...."how many FCS teams Chuck played to get there"? Really? z
Chuck never played Old Dominion, Ga Southern, South Florida and Presbyterian for an OOC. Come on now.
And followed that up next year with Troy, Eastern Ky, South Alabama and ODU.
And followed that up with William & Mary, ODU, ECU(3-9) and ND(4-8) in a tropical storm.


DD has played the longest stretch of awful schedules in the OOC we've ever had in my lifetime.

He has feasted on nobodies. Hasn't beaten a single team, EVER, that finished in the top 25. If Liberty manages to do that this year, they'll be the first one. Think about that. Liberty is his signature win.

Chuck beat multiple teams that finished in the top 15-20, much less the top 25. So did TOB, for that matter.
His teams were almost always competitive played close games with highly-ranked teams.

Don't get me wrong: I'd rather win more than we lose, for sure...but always referring back to our overall wins is defeatist talk. They don't define us, they shouldn't define us.

But don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. He's Football Herb. Mediocrity. Feast on bad teams, never beat the good ones. Marginal post seasons and then tell everyone how well we did.

I'd be okay with it if he EVER broke through and had one great season....oh, say..one time in 8 years?

But 8-9 wins now is not the same as when CTC, MOC, Sheridan or Lou did it. I don't poo-poo it....it's sure better than losing that many, but it's not some great accomplishment these days. Other than this year, he plays 12 every year, plus a bowl 9 wins means you lost 4. That's nice. Not thrilling, but nice. It's not remotely equal to 9-2.

I enjoyed some of his tenure early on. But it's 8 years now. No signature wins. Never come close to challenging for the ACC. Loads of "W T F" and embarrassing losses. Now Grandpa Mack is destroying him in recruiting, so he's not even going to be beating the Cheats on a regular basis.
The future is decidedly....mediocre.

btw, y'all DO remember he won only 4 last year, right?

Steve Williams said:

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What the heck does any of this have to do with a message board? LOL

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Pull them back in, Steve....Seems like almost every topic goes off course in just a few posts.

Steve Williams said:

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What the heck does any of this have to do with a message board? LOL

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Nothing. Everything.

wilmwolf80 said:

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Steve Williams said:

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What the heck does any of this have to do with a message board? LOL

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Nothing. Everything.

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The beginning of IPS becoming more mainstream! You know... how all the boards grow....it only takes one to derail a thread! Obviously the one who did has had years of experience. I can attest to that. I watched him for years do the same all the while clamoring..."i'm a moderate..." "i'm not derailing anything..!"

But back to the original topic... some of the other schools that have "off topic" boards, Ohio State, Auburn to use as example, have completely abandoned their off topic boards and deleted them. It was all because of politics. The old boards would have SEVERAL threads that were labeled "NSFW!" My how times have changed....

I remember back in the day shooting Steve an email with some AJ Davis stuff I overheard in a Bojangles, I think. I was desperate to be an insider. Lol. That was without a doubt one of the biggest recruiting pickups for State that excited me since I've started following.

packgrad said:

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I remember back in the day shooting Steve an email with some AJ Davis stuff I overheard in a Bojangles, I think. I was desperate to be an insider. Lol. That was without a doubt one of the biggest recruiting pickups for State that excited me since I've started following.

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"Where there's smoke"
Smokey Glenn
And now he denies having said that

I remember that day well. Chuck joking that he sang "Return to me" over the phone to AJ, and
then Bunting *****ing about Chuck singing when he was just joking.

Pacfanweb said:

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packgrad said:

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I remember back in the day shooting Steve an email with some AJ Davis stuff I overheard in a Bojangles, I think. I was desperate to be an insider. Lol. That was without a doubt one of the biggest recruiting pickups for State that excited me since I've started following.

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"Where there's smoke"
Smokey Glenn
And now he denies having said that

I remember that day well. Chuck joking that he sang "Return to me" over the phone to AJ, and
then Bunting *****ing about Chuck singing when he was just joking.

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Yep. Freaking Smokey Glenn. What a tool bag. I was a young LO for a mortgage broker that was a HUGE UNC fan. I was simply called "State Guy" around the office. Boy did I get a big obnoxious after that pickup. Good times.

Steve Williams said:

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I think we've made some pretty good progress with this board. A year ago it was dead so it's come a long way. Hopefully it'll only improve with time.

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No pressure Steve, I like the content here, but I came over here during the year because Pack Pride has gotten just unbearable.

I hope the growth is because of better content than just people sick of Pack Pride.

Steve Williams said:

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What the heck does any of this have to do with a message board? LOL

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Just symbolic of the fact that they all have representative self-important soapbox posters... "This coach sux because I say he sux!!!!11!!! How dare you question me? I am the only one here who has the analytical skillz to tell you what to think!!!!11!!

packgrad said:

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Pacfanweb said:

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packgrad said:

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I remember back in the day shooting Steve an email with some AJ Davis stuff I overheard in a Bojangles, I think. I was desperate to be an insider. Lol. That was without a doubt one of the biggest recruiting pickups for State that excited me since I've started following.

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"Where there's smoke"
Smokey Glenn
And now he denies having said that

I remember that day well. Chuck joking that he sang "Return to me" over the phone to AJ, and
then Bunting *****ing about Chuck singing when he was just joking.

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Yep. Freaking Smokey Glenn. What a tool bag. I was a young LO for a mortgage broker that was a HUGE UNC fan. I was simply called "State Guy" around the office. Boy did I get a big obnoxious after that pickup. Good times.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't ***** bag Dave the co-owner or owner of the ACC Sports magazine and had something to do with the ACC message boards? I'm not certain but it seems to me like he had a hand in part of it. I think Brook Oettinger?? the recruiting guy for basketball back then may have also contributed or had something to do with it as well. Ol' Smokey found out hot fast and in a hurry when you "get woke you go broke!" I'm sure the lovely and talented Maria is happy paying all the bills since Smokey got doused by the most liberal broadcasting group in America after he tried to prove beyond doubt that he was "woke" and anti-Trump and anti-Republican. Not to mention the fact that he more than ran interference during the unc-cheat scandal on a daily basis and shut down any caller that dared question his resume' or knowledge. Couldn't of happened to a better POS tool bag unc-cheat homer. Whew...that felt good. Wish I could have told him that on air!!

BBW12OG said:

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packgrad said:

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Pacfanweb said:

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packgrad said:

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I remember back in the day shooting Steve an email with some AJ Davis stuff I overheard in a Bojangles, I think. I was desperate to be an insider. Lol. That was without a doubt one of the biggest recruiting pickups for State that excited me since I've started following.

---

"Where there's smoke"
Smokey Glenn
And now he denies having said that

I remember that day well. Chuck joking that he sang "Return to me" over the phone to AJ, and
then Bunting *****ing about Chuck singing when he was just joking.

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Yep. Freaking Smokey Glenn. What a tool bag. I was a young LO for a mortgage broker that was a HUGE UNC fan. I was simply called "State Guy" around the office. Boy did I get a big obnoxious after that pickup. Good times.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't ***** bag Dave the co-owner or owner of the ACC Sports magazine and had something to do with the ACC message boards? I'm not certain but it seems to me like he had a hand in part of it. I think Brook Oettinger?? the recruiting guy for basketball back then may have also contributed or had something to do with it as well. Ol' Smokey found out hot fast and in a hurry when you "get woke you go broke!" I'm sure the lovely and talented Maria is happy paying all the bills since Smokey got doused by the most liberal broadcasting group in America after he tried to prove beyond doubt that he was "woke" and anti-Trump and anti-Republican. Not to mention the fact that he more than ran interference during the unc-cheat scandal on a daily basis and shut down any caller that dared question his resume' or knowledge. Couldn't of happened to a better POS tool bag unc-cheat homer. Whew...that felt good. Wish I could have told him that on air!!

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Didn't they start out with The Poop Sheet? I remember going to the local book stand to get a copy of The Poop Sheet. That's where all the recruiting was learned. Also, I think Tuesday nights, Gary Dormberg had a radio call-in show that featured an recruiting analyst (Black gentleman) that loved State...

Man, this internet thing really killed the good ol days of recruiting...

You might be right about the Poop Sheet.

I remember a coworker used to get that in the mail to read about recruiting.

I know it is now on the ACC Sports website, which is certainly Smokey's domain.

Don't remember if he had anything to do with the original Poop Sheet or if they were
merged somewhere along the way, but they're definitely related now.

BTW, did you know he was a lawyer?

Think I joined statefans in 02 or 03. Loved the recruiting coverage but the brickyard kept me coming back daily. Until the mods started cowering to scout and permabanning folks. The manatee/hammerhead shark stuff was legendary.

RIP tOTF.

Back in the early aughts I really enjoyed his Saturday morning radio show. He's knowledgeable and connected but him having to fill 15 hours a week makes for a lot of UNC apologizing and smarm.

Pacfanweb said:

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BTW, did you know he was a lawyer?

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Did know any of them was a lawyer... Who is the lawyer?

caryking said:

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Pacfanweb said:

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BTW, did you know he was a lawyer?

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Did know any of them was a lawyer... Who is the lawyer?

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Smokey. He made sure to mention it several times per hour. Kind of a running joke, I guess.

Or it was anyway, I haven't listened to terrestrial radio in several years now, other than State games.

Steve Williams said:

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Is Glenn still on the radio? I remember he used to post as 1980Heel or something similar back in the day.

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I think his show was cancelled in the spring. When I mean cancelled I think it was sudden and pretty much he walked in and they said "you no longer work here.." type deal. He, Joe Ovaries and Adam Gold had pretty much been trying to land gigs on ESPN with all of their "wokeness" and politically charged conversations. Glenn shutdown anyone and everyone that didn't agree with him and his ideas. I stopped listening around 2014 or so and would only check in during recruiting, preseason college football/basketball just to see if they were actually talking about sports.... they rarely were. After Trump was elected it was game on for bashing conservative points of view with semi-veiled insults, innuendo etc... As far as Smokey goes, he showed who he was years back when he and "lovely and talented Maria, who also happens to be a lawyer and a VERY successful one" took a trip I believe to Columbia... he bragged for weeks before they went on how nice of a place they were staying, how much it was going to cost (without giving the dollar amount) and how people should really try to venture out of the country and visit other places.... smug doesn't describe his pompous arrogance. He's a guy that was in a league of his own with zero self awareness.

Steve Williams said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Steve Williams said:

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Is Glenn still on the radio? I remember he used to post as 1980Heel or something similar back in the day.

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I think his show was cancelled in the spring. When I mean cancelled I think it was sudden and pretty much he walked in and they said "you no longer work here.." type deal. He, Joe Ovaries and Adam Gold had pretty much been trying to land gigs on ESPN with all of their "wokeness" and politically charged conversations. Glenn shutdown anyone and everyone that didn't agree with him and his ideas. I stopped listening around 2014 or so and would only check in during recruiting, preseason college football/basketball just to see if they were actually talking about sports.... they rarely were. After Trump was elected it was game on for bashing conservative points of view with semi-veiled insults, innuendo etc... As far as Smokey goes, he showed who he was years back when he and "lovely and talented Maria, who also happens to be a lawyer and a VERY successful one" took a trip I believe to Columbia... he bragged for weeks before they went on how nice of a place they were staying, how much it was going to cost (without giving the dollar amount) and how people should really try to venture out of the country and visit other places.... smug doesn't describe his pompous arrogance. He's a guy that was in a league of his own with zero self awareness.

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I used to enjoy sports talk radio. Loved listening to Dornburg, there was a guy named Frank Moroch (it's been so long ago, may have the name/spelling off) that I really enjoyed. I tried Adam Gold. Awful. Tried Glenn. Completely unlistenable for me. Would take him 10 minutes to express a one-sentence idea. He personified that arrogant, smug UNC persona.

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I loved listening to Dornburg. Can remember at this time of year listening to see what bowl we might get.

On a positive note for those in the Raliegh area, at least your local, drive home, sports guy is not Gary Parrish!

As much as I hate to be disconnected from local sports radio with sites like this Triangle Sports talk radio is pretty much meaningless unless you want to hear the echo chamber of the same thoughts day after day after day. I lived in Charlotte a while back in the late 90's and the "Packman and Pinter" show was awesome. They basically had a morning show cast but it was about sports. Hayseed, QCB just to name a few. Moved back to the Raleigh area around 2002. It was 850 the Buzz, then they switched it to 620... then it went to FM. Stomached it through the CTC, TOB years...I won't even mention the Herb saga.... when they made NCSU basketball the butt of all their jokes it was time to move on. Have had and listened to XM since. Barstool Sports is where it's at. They are a monster. Fun to listen to and if you need info on NCSU...well...IPS is a mouse click away without having to listen to fodder.

Steve Williams said:

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I think I got started on The ACC Boards. There's a Wolfpacker, Bob Radford, that ran the very first NC State football recruiting site and my man Zeke ran The State of Basketball. Bob and I had talked about collaborating on a site together but his work wouldn't allow it so I ended up at The Wolfpacker. Been blessed to be able to contribute at all the major NC State sites.

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Was always curious how you got started. Just personal interest in recruiting and started calling recruits and posting info? I was always interested in recruiting, but there used to be no info at all about it. I remember the annual pre-season magazines that would come out might dedicate a page or two about it, but never included anything specific about NC State. I was late to being much of an internet user, but stumbled upon Steve and The Wolfpacker sometime around 2000, and have been hooked now for 20 years. I remember Noah, Beowulf, etc. The Tramain Hall saga. AJ Davis was the greatest recruiting win of all time. I thought Marcus Stone would be all-world when we landed him! Followed Steve from The Wolfpacker to PackPride and now here. This is the only site I pay for, but still frequent the BY on PP. Hate all the politics, but enjoy the non-political discussion that it offers.

I honestly think most fans, or at least speaking from myself, got involved due to recruiting and then of course the grand daddy of them all....coaching search (es) .... Sad to say I was on all of the aforementioned during the transitions in football and God forbid, basketball. And yes... the BY died this year. Four or five far left liberal posters that occupy the place 16 hours a day have run off all of the old school decent posters. They also have a "friend" that provides them cover and allows them free reign. I like this place a heck of a lot more. And as far as sports information goes... 1,000 to 1 better and always has been.

Pacfanweb said:

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Equaled Chuck's best 4 year stretch?
His best was 8, 7, 11, 8.

DD will be, if he wins a bowl, 9,4,9,9

He has 6 more wins overall than Chuck, but he's played one more season and 100 games vs Chuck's 86 to do it.

Pretty sure that's not equal. And come on...."how many FCS teams Chuck played to get there"? Really? z
Chuck never played Old Dominion, Ga Southern, South Florida and Presbyterian for an OOC. Come on now.
And followed that up next year with Troy, Eastern Ky, South Alabama and ODU.
And followed that up with William & Mary, ODU, ECU(3-9) and ND(4-8) in a tropical storm.


DD has played the longest stretch of awful schedules in the OOC we've ever had in my lifetime.

He has feasted on nobodies. Hasn't beaten a single team, EVER, that finished in the top 25. If Liberty manages to do that this year, they'll be the first one. Think about that. Liberty is his signature win.

Chuck beat multiple teams that finished in the top 15-20, much less the top 25. So did TOB, for that matter.
His teams were almost always competitive played close games with highly-ranked teams.

Don't get me wrong: I'd rather win more than we lose, for sure...but always referring back to our overall wins is defeatist talk. They don't define us, they shouldn't define us.

But don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. He's Football Herb. Mediocrity. Feast on bad teams, never beat the good ones. Marginal post seasons and then tell everyone how well we did.

I'd be okay with it if he EVER broke through and had one great season....oh, say..one time in 8 years?

But 8-9 wins now is not the same as when CTC, MOC, Sheridan or Lou did it. I don't poo-poo it....it's sure better than losing that many, but it's not some great accomplishment these days. Other than this year, he plays 12 every year, plus a bowl 9 wins means you lost 4. That's nice. Not thrilling, but nice. It's not remotely equal to 9-2.

I enjoyed some of his tenure early on. But it's 8 years now. No signature wins. Never come close to challenging for the ACC. Loads of "W T F" and embarrassing losses. Now Grandpa Mack is destroying him in recruiting, so he's not even going to be beating the Cheats on a regular basis.
The future is decidedly....mediocre.

btw, y'all DO remember he won only 4 last year, right?

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We gonna have a parade?

TWW and SFN Pack Pride circa 2002 or before

waynecountywolf said:

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We gonna have a parade?

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Hey, if the AD would just come out and say "We're good with just making a bowl most of the time, and 6-7-8 wins a year, we're not trying to be big-time".....I'd be a lot more okay with the state of things.

But Debbie Yow fired TOB for exactly that type of performance. Stated we expected more here.

I mean, look at the ESPN article on his firing, and ESPN is no real friend to us:

"North Carolina State coach Tom O'Brien has been fired after a disappointing 7-5 season, the school announced Sunday."

"Even though O'Brien has led the Wolfpack to three straight bowl games, his teams have failed to live up to expectations throughout his tenure. O'Brien went 40-35 in six seasons -- but just 22-26 in the ACC."

""I told them it's really fairly simple," Yow said. "Coach O'Brien and I agree on the goal of becoming a top-25 program. We just don't agree on what it takes to do that, how to get there."

And then a tweet from another ESPN person:
"From what I've gathered, NC State wants a bulldog recruiter for its next coach. Felt it fell short in that area."

What happened to that? 7-5 was "disappointing" then, but it's good to go now? DD's been here 2 more seasons than TOB yet only has 6 more ACC wins. And TOB beat some actual good teams, along with losing to some he shouldn't have. DD has only done the latter.

So...is a top 25 program still the goal, or no? If so, then we need to make a change and should have done so 4 years ago. If not, then Football Herb is your guy.

I had hopes that we wanted more. Evidently that changed somewhere along the way. Even Yow seems to be okay with the state of the program right now.

And don't get me wrong...it doesn't suck. It's certainly better than losing. I like the way the guy runs things. But he's not a top 25 coach, and we're never going to be a consistent top 25 program or make a serious run at an ACC title.
We already had this with TOB. We were here. And I was glad he was let go, because I knew this was his ceiling, just like it's DD's as well. It was stated we expected more, and now that doesn't seem to be the case, and it's kind of frustrating to those of us who grew up with an NC State AD that expected to win.