PoleD said:

---

I'd say it also has to do with people not considering this year as a real season.

---

Yeah could be....I think I could become a fan of the shortened season -- including in baseball and NASCAR.

The only sport I wish could add inventory would be CFB (but only when your team is good) and international soccer.

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

The NFL ratings came back when players stopped kneeling for the National Anthem. And I am sure the NFL is taking some hits too with all their social messaging. You want to protest peacefully then go right ahead, but don't do it on my time. I did not watch any NFL the first week, but I listened to Colts on the radio. About the only games I have halfway watched are the Colts games so I can see what Philip is doing. Hard for me to cheer for Indy because of the way Robert Irsay left Baltimore in the middle of a snowstorm in 1984.

I was a die hard Colts fan before that. Actually went to a playoff game between the Colts and the Raiders on Christmas Eve 1977. Game went double OT. I will cheer for Philip to do well. If he can lead the Colts to the Super Bowl, then I would be very happy for Philip.

Packchem91 said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Yep, Lebron should like that. Let him go over there and speak about the President the way he does here. He would disappear one day and never be found. He really showed his ignorance when he responded to Daryl Morey.

---

Whats crazy is, some of you guys beg for poor black people to rise up out of the horrendous conditions on their own ("bootstraps"), and quit relying on your tax $$ to help them. Here is a guy who has done exactly that, has become one of the richest, and best employees in his craft ever, and, get this, gives millions and millions of $$$ back to help folks in situations similar to what he grew up in, and yet you still treat him like a "thug".

Sure, he says some things many of us can disagree with (or doesn't say some things we could like him to say, like on China or the LA police shootings). He's not perfect, he has faults and blind spots, just like you, me, and everyone else and he deserves criticism at times, like anyone who puts themselves out there like he does.

But the guy is a leader. He gives back. He uses his voice. He just happens to use it in ways some of you/us don't agree with, and that makes him a thug. (I still shake my head to see educated NC State grads throwing that word around about "the majority of the NBA" and many on here going along with that notion).

---

I have never been against people making as much money as they can. Good for him. He was completely wrong about China and was only saying it because it was money out of his pocket. If you don't like the country then leave. Don't defend China because they are paying you.

Lots of Nike slaves over in China. Lots of Muslim Uyghar slaves over there. Actual slaves and he spouts off about Black people can't walk outside because they will be hunted by the police. More unarmed white people were killed last year by police than blacks, but Lebron in all his wisdom says they are being hunted. Of course he's got personal security too, so he doesn't have to worry about it.

How about engaging with the police and try to work with them to correct what minor problems there are. Why doesn't he show up in Chicago on the south side and try to help all the people shot there. All the black on black crime that goes on in major cities everywhere. No he has to spout off about criminals being killed while committing crimes. Guys who are not good people. That is all I will say about it. He does have a voice, but I don't think he uses it wisely.

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

Packchem91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

---

I doubt that. You just agree with what their protest is about. If they had "abortion is murder" on the floor, similar saying on their jerseys, and talked about it before, during, and after the game, I think you'd feel differently.

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

---

I doubt that. You just agree with what their protest is about. If they had "abortion is murder" on the floor, similar saying on their jerseys, and talked about it before, during, and after the game, I think you'd feel differently.

---

Actually, I think abortion is murder. But I also think black people shouldn't have to worry every day about being stalked and abused by people in power.
I know its crazy, but it is ok to think people should be treated equally.

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

---

I doubt that. You just agree with what their protest is about. If they had "abortion is murder" on the floor, similar saying on their jerseys, and talked about it before, during, and after the game, I think you'd feel differently.

---

Actually, I think abortion is murder. But I also think black people shouldn't have to worry every day about being stalked and abused by people in power.
I know its crazy, but it is ok to think people should be treated equally.

---

So, there you go. You agree with what they're saying. You don't ignore what they're saying. The holier than thou schtick was horse *****

---

No, players advocating politics just doesn't bother me. If they got out there with "Roe v Wade" stickers on them, I'd still watch, though that should be much more offensive than what the players today are asking for.

It's ok, just admit you don't value black lives, and you don't care if black parents have to worry about their teenage kids getting roughed up by police because they are black.

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

---

I doubt that. You just agree with what their protest is about. If they had "abortion is murder" on the floor, similar saying on their jerseys, and talked about it before, during, and after the game, I think you'd feel differently.

---

Actually, I think abortion is murder. But I also think black people shouldn't have to worry every day about being stalked and abused by people in power.
I know its crazy, but it is ok to think people should be treated equally.

---

So, there you go. You agree with what they're saying. You don't ignore what they're saying. The holier than thou schtick was horse *****

---

No, players advocating politics just doesn't bother me. If they got out there with "Roe v Wade" stickers on them, I'd still watch, though that should be much more offensive than what the players today are asking for.

It's ok, just admit you don't value black lives, and you don't care if black parents have to worry about their teenage kids getting roughed up by police because they are black.

---

Why would I admit that?

Why don't you admit that you're losing the debate so you're crying racism?

But like I said, It's not that you ignore what they're saying. You agree with what they're saying, so everyone that disagrees should just ignore it. Ratings be damned. Lol. Good thing you're not a decision maker for your company!

---

There's no debate here. It's clear from this thread and others how you think. Pretty sad though.

And if you join SCP and claim that NBA players in general are thugs, then I will absolutely assign the word "racist" to you. No debate there either.

Pacfanweb said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Actually, I think abortion is murder. But I also think black people shouldn't have to worry every day about being stalked and abused by people in power.
I know its crazy, but it is ok to think people should be treated equally.

---

But the facts and numbers indicate that black people actually DON'T have to worry about those things.

Most people realize that, but the media narrative is that they are being slaughtered in droves daily, and mistreated in huge numbers.....but that's not actually the case.

So yeah, everyone should be treated equally. And for the most part, they are. There are exceptions, yes. But it's not like it's a widespread thing and it's like the pre-civil rights era out there for them. That's not remotely the case.

---

I have 3 black people who work for me. I've asked them about this. I'll just say their personal experiences don't agree with your findings. And they all are pretty well paid and live in nice areas, not crime-ridden areas that sometimes lend themselves to heavier policing.

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

---

I doubt that. You just agree with what their protest is about. If they had "abortion is murder" on the floor, similar saying on their jerseys, and talked about it before, during, and after the game, I think you'd feel differently.

---

Actually, I think abortion is murder. But I also think black people shouldn't have to worry every day about being stalked and abused by people in power.
I know its crazy, but it is ok to think people should be treated equally.

---

So, there you go. You agree with what they're saying. You don't ignore what they're saying. The holier than thou schtick was horse *****

---

No, players advocating politics just doesn't bother me. If they got out there with "Roe v Wade" stickers on them, I'd still watch, though that should be much more offensive than what the players today are asking for.

It's ok, just admit you don't value black lives, and you don't care if black parents have to worry about their teenage kids getting roughed up by police because they are black.

---

Why would I admit that?

Why don't you admit that you're losing the debate so you're crying racism?

But like I said, It's not that you ignore what they're saying. You agree with what they're saying, so everyone that disagrees should just ignore it. Ratings be damned. Lol. Good thing you're not a decision maker for your company!

---

There's no debate here. It's clear from this thread and others how you think. Pretty sad though.

And if you join SCP and claim that NBA players in general are thugs, then I will absolutely assign the word "racist" to you. No debate there either.

---

You're just flailing now. Please stop with the name calling. It's very childish and speaks to your intelligence level.

---

If you agree that NBA players are thugs, name calling isn't needed, it would speak all by itself.

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

---

I doubt that. You just agree with what their protest is about. If they had "abortion is murder" on the floor, similar saying on their jerseys, and talked about it before, during, and after the game, I think you'd feel differently.

---

Actually, I think abortion is murder. But I also think black people shouldn't have to worry every day about being stalked and abused by people in power.
I know its crazy, but it is ok to think people should be treated equally.

---

So, there you go. You agree with what they're saying. You don't ignore what they're saying. The holier than thou schtick was horse *****

---

No, players advocating politics just doesn't bother me. If they got out there with "Roe v Wade" stickers on them, I'd still watch, though that should be much more offensive than what the players today are asking for.

It's ok, just admit you don't value black lives, and you don't care if black parents have to worry about their teenage kids getting roughed up by police because they are black.

---

Why would I admit that?

Why don't you admit that you're losing the debate so you're crying racism?

But like I said, It's not that you ignore what they're saying. You agree with what they're saying, so everyone that disagrees should just ignore it. Ratings be damned. Lol. Good thing you're not a decision maker for your company!

---

There's no debate here. It's clear from this thread and others how you think. Pretty sad though.

And if you join SCP and claim that NBA players in general are thugs, then I will absolutely assign the word "racist" to you. No debate there either.

---

You're just flailing now. Please stop with the name calling. It's very childish and speaks to your intelligence level.

---

If you agree that NBA players are thugs, name calling isn't needed, it would speak all by itself.

---

Seriously, stop with the personal attacks and trying to attribute things to me. Just pathetic.

Back to the thread, thought this tweet from Whitlock a week ago was appropriate.

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

I was a die hard Colts fan before that. Actually went to a playoff game between the Colts and the Raiders on Christmas Eve 1977. Game went double OT. I will cheer for Philip to do well. If he can lead the Colts to the Super Bowl, then I would be very happy for Philip.

---

The one where the plane crashed into the stands not too long after the game was over? Bert Jones was Colts QB, right? "Ghost to the Post" game as well I think even...

TheStorm said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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I was a die hard Colts fan before that. Actually went to a playoff game between the Colts and the Raiders on Christmas Eve 1977. Game went double OT. I will cheer for Philip to do well. If he can lead the Colts to the Super Bowl, then I would be very happy for Philip.

---

The one where the plane crashed into the stands not too long after the game was over? Bert Jones was Colts QB, right? "Ghost to the Post" game as well I think even...

---

Yes, it's on youtube. Just look for Ghost to the Post.

caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

---

I doubt that. You just agree with what their protest is about. If they had "abortion is murder" on the floor, similar saying on their jerseys, and talked about it before, during, and after the game, I think you'd feel differently.

---

Actually, I think abortion is murder. But I also think black people shouldn't have to worry every day about being stalked and abused by people in power.
I know its crazy, but it is ok to think people should be treated equally.

---

I'm happy to see you think abortion is murder. I do too!

The whole narrative about stalked and abused by people in power is just insane. Realistically, very few things you do in live doesn't happen without some type of profiling. Think about it, statistics are used to gather information about people in order to take action. This is true about websites, police, healthcare and damn near everything.

Here is a statistic for you: over 15 Million abortions have happened to black babies. Wouldn't it be nice if BLM would look at that statistic and take action against the abortions?

---

Sure. BLM (the organization) has plenty to prove that it actually cares about black people, and not just power. It could maybe start with improving sex education / responsibility to young black people and focused on the power of having a mom and dad in a marriage, which is, to me, the single greatest inhibitor to people rising up out of that cycle of poverty.
Unless you or bunches of your friends, of course, plan to line up to adopt all those babies when they are born, which sadly would today be their only likely recourse, what do you want them to do?
My point is.....the solutions are not nearly as black and white as people in this debate want them to be.

As for the narrative about stalked and abused --- you need to talk to more black people and ask them. When I hear a mom (married w/2 kids) who lives in a nice area between Matthews and Mint Hill talk about her HS aged son being stopped by police when he is walking home from work in the daytime. Now, he may not have been "abused" in this situation, but I think to myself, me and my kids would never have to worry about that.

But you can chose to ignore that --- and the anger it would cause if you were the parent --- but it doesn't make it less real.

packgrad said:

---

I have had the police called on me for sitting in a parking lot and doing on site estimates. I've been stopped, pulled out of car, and searched for driving past a crime scene too much that was down the road from my office.

Some people want to see racism in everything. Some people, like me, just see the police doing their jobs.

---

So its a policeman's job to stop a teenager walking down the road in the afternoon? Amongst all the things they have to do, that is one of them?

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I have had the police called on me for sitting in a parking lot and doing on site estimates. I've been stopped, pulled out of car, and searched for driving past a crime scene too much that was down the road from my office.

Some people want to see racism in everything. Some people, like me, just see the police doing their jobs.

---

So its a policeman's job to stop a teenager walking down the road in the afternoon? Amongst all the things they have to do, that is one of them?

---

Do you think they did it for fun? Do you think they are just boogeymen? Why do you think they weren't doing their job? Amongst all the things they have to do during the day, why do you think they would just stop random teenagers?

Police interact with white people too. Just like they've done with me, multiple times. It's just the nature of my job being in communities where some people know I'm going to be there. Some don't. Sometimes the ones that don't call the police. If I wanted to be a victim, I could cry racism, sexism, or whatever. Instead, I understand that sometimes the police are called, and they have to do their jobs too.

Even the time pulling me out of the car and searching me, I get it. Active crime scene, and I drove past 3 times in 15 minutes (Left and forgot something at the office so had to go back).

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

---

I doubt that. You just agree with what their protest is about. If they had "abortion is murder" on the floor, similar saying on their jerseys, and talked about it before, during, and after the game, I think you'd feel differently.

---

Actually, I think abortion is murder. But I also think black people shouldn't have to worry every day about being stalked and abused by people in power.
I know its crazy, but it is ok to think people should be treated equally.

---

I'm happy to see you think abortion is murder. I do too!

The whole narrative about stalked and abused by people in power is just insane. Realistically, very few things you do in live doesn't happen without some type of profiling. Think about it, statistics are used to gather information about people in order to take action. This is true about websites, police, healthcare and damn near everything.

Here is a statistic for you: over 15 Million abortions have happened to black babies. Wouldn't it be nice if BLM would look at that statistic and take action against the abortions?

---

Sure. BLM (the organization) has plenty to prove that it actually cares about black people, and not just power. It could maybe start with improving sex education / responsibility to young black people and focused on the power of having a mom and dad in a marriage, which is, to me, the single greatest inhibitor to people rising up out of that cycle of poverty.
Unless you or bunches of your friends, of course, plan to line up to adopt all those babies when they are born, which sadly would today be their only likely recourse, what do you want them to do?
My point is.....the solutions are not nearly as black and white as people in this debate want them to be.

As for the narrative about stalked and abused --- you need to talk to more black people and ask them. When I hear a mom (married w/2 kids) who lives in a nice area between Matthews and Mint Hill talk about her HS aged son being stopped by police when he is walking home from work in the daytime. Now, he may not have been "abused" in this situation, but I think to myself, me and my kids would never have to worry about that.

But you can chose to ignore that --- and the anger it would cause if you were the parent --- but it doesn't make it less real.

---

I've heard all the stories about people feeling profiled. I get it! What I'm saying is you are sticking your head in the sand if you don't think everyone is profiled. That is the way it works. BTW, you are being profiled today while you peruse the internet. You are also being profiled when you get in your car and pass a police officer.

A crime happens: the police will build a profile of possible suspects. That is them doing the job they are employed to do. I am confident that a young black man walking down the street between Matthews and Mint Hill fits a profile. It's a part of life when we ask the police to protect society.

Regarding 15M+ aborted black babies. Your question assumes a chance was given to society to adopt them. That didn't happen. I believe the country is full of more people willing to help a child. Hell, look at our latest Supreme Court nominee...

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I have had the police called on me for sitting in a parking lot and doing on site estimates. I've been stopped, pulled out of car, and searched for driving past a crime scene too much that was down the road from my office.

Some people want to see racism in everything. Some people, like me, just see the police doing their jobs.

---

So its a policeman's job to stop a teenager walking down the road in the afternoon? Amongst all the things they have to do, that is one of them?

---

Do you think they did it for fun? Do you think they are just boogeymen? Why do you think they weren't doing their job? Amongst all the things they have to do during the day, why do you think they would just stop random teenagers?

---

It wasn't a random teenager. It was a black one. And that is the point --- there is, in some cases (clearly not all) an inherent bias in some police systems that a big black teenager walking down the road must be doing something wrong....otherwise, why would you stop him?

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

---

I doubt that. You just agree with what their protest is about. If they had "abortion is murder" on the floor, similar saying on their jerseys, and talked about it before, during, and after the game, I think you'd feel differently.

---

Actually, I think abortion is murder. But I also think black people shouldn't have to worry every day about being stalked and abused by people in power.
I know its crazy, but it is ok to think people should be treated equally.

---

I'm happy to see you think abortion is murder. I do too!

The whole narrative about stalked and abused by people in power is just insane. Realistically, very few things you do in live doesn't happen without some type of profiling. Think about it, statistics are used to gather information about people in order to take action. This is true about websites, police, healthcare and damn near everything.

Here is a statistic for you: over 15 Million abortions have happened to black babies. Wouldn't it be nice if BLM would look at that statistic and take action against the abortions?

---

Sure. BLM (the organization) has plenty to prove that it actually cares about black people, and not just power.

---

Actually, it's not just BLM... it's people like Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, the vast majority of the media, liberals in this forum, and who else can I profile?

It's a ruse and people who can think on their own, know it....

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I have had the police called on me for sitting in a parking lot and doing on site estimates. I've been stopped, pulled out of car, and searched for driving past a crime scene too much that was down the road from my office.

Some people want to see racism in everything. Some people, like me, just see the police doing their jobs.

---

So its a policeman's job to stop a teenager walking down the road in the afternoon? Amongst all the things they have to do, that is one of them?

---

Do you think they did it for fun? Do you think they are just boogeymen? Why do you think they weren't doing their job? Amongst all the things they have to do during the day, why do you think they would just stop random teenagers?

---

It wasn't a random teenager. It was a black one. And that is the point --- there is, in some cases (clearly not all) an inherent bias in some police systems that a big black teenager walking down the road must be doing something wrong....otherwise, why would you stop him?

---

Lol. That's the part you argue? That I didn't put his skin color? Lol.

You want him to be a victim. That's it. You don't even entertain that there could be a reason to stop him. He's big and black and you know his mom. He's a victim. The police weren't doing their jobs.

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I have had the police called on me for sitting in a parking lot and doing on site estimates. I've been stopped, pulled out of car, and searched for driving past a crime scene too much that was down the road from my office.

Some people want to see racism in everything. Some people, like me, just see the police doing their jobs.

---

So its a policeman's job to stop a teenager walking down the road in the afternoon? Amongst all the things they have to do, that is one of them?

---

Do you think they did it for fun? Do you think they are just boogeymen? Why do you think they weren't doing their job? Amongst all the things they have to do during the day, why do you think they would just stop random teenagers?

Police interact with white people too. Just like they've done with me, multiple times. It's just the nature of my job being in communities where some people know I'm going to be there. Some don't. Sometimes the ones that don't call the police. If I wanted to be a victim, I could cry racism, sexism, or whatever. Instead, I understand that sometimes the police are called, and they have to do their jobs too.

Even the time pulling me out of the car and searching me, I get it. Active crime scene, and I drove past 3 times in 15 minutes (Left and forgot something at the office so had to go back).

---

Your circumstance sounds reasonable. The police have a job to do.

Hard to know whether Packchem91's friend's situation is reasonable without knowing more.

But regardless these are examples of trees, not the forest. They're tiny samples.

What do the patterns and macro data tell us about proportionality? Are the numbers of stops expected or proportional when you look at a big data sets?

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

---

I doubt that. You just agree with what their protest is about. If they had "abortion is murder" on the floor, similar saying on their jerseys, and talked about it before, during, and after the game, I think you'd feel differently.

---

Actually, I think abortion is murder. But I also think black people shouldn't have to worry every day about being stalked and abused by people in power.
I know its crazy, but it is ok to think people should be treated equally.

---

I'm happy to see you think abortion is murder. I do too!

The whole narrative about stalked and abused by people in power is just insane. Realistically, very few things you do in live doesn't happen without some type of profiling. Think about it, statistics are used to gather information about people in order to take action. This is true about websites, police, healthcare and damn near everything.

Here is a statistic for you: over 15 Million abortions have happened to black babies. Wouldn't it be nice if BLM would look at that statistic and take action against the abortions?

---

Sure. BLM (the organization) has plenty to prove that it actually cares about black people, and not just power. It could maybe start with improving sex education / responsibility to young black people and focused on the power of having a mom and dad in a marriage, which is, to me, the single greatest inhibitor to people rising up out of that cycle of poverty.
Unless you or bunches of your friends, of course, plan to line up to adopt all those babies when they are born, which sadly would today be their only likely recourse, what do you want them to do?
My point is.....the solutions are not nearly as black and white as people in this debate want them to be.

As for the narrative about stalked and abused --- you need to talk to more black people and ask them. When I hear a mom (married w/2 kids) who lives in a nice area between Matthews and Mint Hill talk about her HS aged son being stopped by police when he is walking home from work in the daytime. Now, he may not have been "abused" in this situation, but I think to myself, me and my kids would never have to worry about that.

But you can chose to ignore that --- and the anger it would cause if you were the parent --- but it doesn't make it less real.

---

I've heard all the stories about people feeling profiled. I get it! What I'm saying is you are sticking your head in the sand if you don't think everyone is profiled. That is the way it works. BTW, you are being profiled today while you peruse the internet. You are also being profiled when you get in your car and pass a police officer.

A crime happens: the police will build a profile of possible suspects. That is them doing the job they are employed to do. I am confident that a young black man walking down the street between Matthews and Mint Hill fits a profile. It's a part of life when we ask the police to protect society.

Regarding 15M+ aborted black babies. Your question assumes a chance was given to society to adopt them. That didn't happen. I believe the country is full of more people willing to help a child. Hell, look at our latest Supreme Court nominee...

---

I'm a parent who has adopted.....and I think it's clear there is nowhere near enough willing people to help adopt all the children who would need it to prevent them falling into an abyss, or abuse, or fill in the blank.
Extremely depressing, but that's the way it is.

Some of that is financially driven too, as it is usually extremely expensive to adopt.

Sadly, there is no easy answer.and I agree with you it is a HUGE problem in general. And agree that no one is really willing to try to look for answers in great part because it would require someone to speak positively about the concept of commitment and marriage and such, and that's not very sexy.

Stop the government funding for abortions. Use that money to fund adoptions. Problem solved.

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

caryking said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Bas2020 said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Ripper said:

---

DrummerboyWolf said:

---

Hmmm the NBA is going to stop the social justice messaging next year because ratings are so low. Too late, the audience won't be coming back.

---

Yep, they did irreparable harm. Maybe they can set up shop in China.

---

Isn't this the same thing everyone said about NFL with Kapernick? Now people watch guys in their underwear at the draft combines, schedule announcements, etc.

I mean, I do get that some fans have turned it off...and some may never come back. But...couldn't the bigger impact this year have just been the timing? I mean, if Lebron has that kind of game where he wakes up in the 2nd half and leads his team to victory in June, its the only thing being talked about.
This morning, it was not even the lead, because Covid in the NFL was bigger (and perhaps several other NFL stories).

The PGA is not doing social warrior stuff, but their US Open ratings were down like 45% to last year. Some of that is surely last year it was primetime, but it's also because it wasn't occurring in its normal unchallenged time slot.

And ultimately, I do think fans have found alternatives now, and don't need sports as much.

---

I agree with that but shouldn't ESPN be the example ? ESPN went woke political 5 years ago wayyyy the heck before Covid and their rankings have tanked ever sense . Back then the same people made excuses... like cord cutting lol . Geeks like Ovies etc can't accept that 55-60% of the country does not agree with them and even some that do don't want to hear politics mixed in with their sports . Why on earth any executive in a sports related industry thinks that politics is a good idea is a complete idiot . Michael Jordan was smart in that regard .

---

I think there is a place and time. I agree with you in regard to ESPN -- I don't watch ESPN, ever, except for games. The talk/news/pregame shows just no longer provide the "E".

That's the difference for me....once the game starts, short of guys being really really bad dudes, I just don't care about what they think. Or what they support. Or frankly, what quote they put on their jersey.

---

I doubt that. You just agree with what their protest is about. If they had "abortion is murder" on the floor, similar saying on their jerseys, and talked about it before, during, and after the game, I think you'd feel differently.

---

Actually, I think abortion is murder. But I also think black people shouldn't have to worry every day about being stalked and abused by people in power.
I know its crazy, but it is ok to think people should be treated equally.

---

I'm happy to see you think abortion is murder. I do too!

The whole narrative about stalked and abused by people in power is just insane. Realistically, very few things you do in live doesn't happen without some type of profiling. Think about it, statistics are used to gather information about people in order to take action. This is true about websites, police, healthcare and damn near everything.

Here is a statistic for you: over 15 Million abortions have happened to black babies. Wouldn't it be nice if BLM would look at that statistic and take action against the abortions?

---

Sure. BLM (the organization) has plenty to prove that it actually cares about black people, and not just power.

---

Actually, it's not just BLM... it's people like Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, the vast majority of the media, liberals in this forum, and who else can I profile?

It's a ruse and people who can think on their own, know it....

---

100% agree on this. Heck, it was one of the points that warranted further questioning last night in the debate when Pence called out Harris for her actions in CA and how that affected black people. She just stood there shaking her head, but the moderator missed the opportunity to have her explain what the statistics show.

packgrad said:

---

Stop the government funding for abortions. Use that money to fund adoptions. Problem solved.

---

No issue with that.....you lining up to do so? Where you gonna find all those people who will?
Cost of adoption is one inhibitor. Plenty of Americans who aren't going to adopt babies that look different from them. That's not a criticism, its a reality.

BTW, one thing that would happen if the government started throwing in $$ for adoptions...the source of the high costs - ie, the lawyers, would see that $$ flow and just amp up even more charges.

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Stop the government funding for abortions. Use that money to fund adoptions. Problem solved.

---

No issue with that.....you lining up to do so? Where you gonna find all those people who will?
Cost of adoption is one inhibitor. Plenty of Americans who aren't going to adopt babies that look different from them. That's not a criticism, its a reality.

BTW, one thing that would happen if the government started throwing in $$ for adoptions...the source of the high costs - ie, the lawyers, would see that $$ flow and just amp up even more charges.

---

Not at my age. No. We looked at it when we were younger, as children were not an option for us. At the time, we were financially unable. Now, we've settled into our lives.

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

I have had the police called on me for sitting in a parking lot and doing on site estimates. I've been stopped, pulled out of car, and searched for driving past a crime scene too much that was down the road from my office.

Some people want to see racism in everything. Some people, like me, just see the police doing their jobs.

---

So its a policeman's job to stop a teenager walking down the road in the afternoon? Amongst all the things they have to do, that is one of them?

---

I'm white and i've been stopped walking down the road in the afternoon....

packgrad said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Stop the government funding for abortions. Use that money to fund adoptions. Problem solved.

---

No issue with that.....you lining up to do so? Where you gonna find all those people who will?
Cost of adoption is one inhibitor. Plenty of Americans who aren't going to adopt babies that look different from them. That's not a criticism, its a reality.

BTW, one thing that would happen if the government started throwing in $$ for adoptions...the source of the high costs - ie, the lawyers, would see that $$ flow and just amp up even more charges.

---

Not at my age. No. We looked at it when we were younger, as children were not an option for us. At the time, we were financially unable. Now, we've settled into our lives.

---

And that is the unfortunate thing -- costs of process should not prevent a willing family from adopting. That part of the process left me a bit bitter when we went thru it, as it is clear the folks charging all that $$$ know they have you emotionally invested and can take advantage.