Election Interference/Fraud

271,917 Views | 3695 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by BBW12OG
IseWolf22
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Pacfanweb said:

I believe Romney will fall in line with the party if he becomes Senate Majority Leader.

I don't agree with all he's done, but I don't think he'll be any worse than McConnell or anyone else was.

Hopefully we'll get to see that, I don't want one party controlling all 3.
Republicans had all 3 from 2016-2018. They fought amongst themselves and barely got anything done. Democrats would do exactly the same thing. They are not unified in any way, shape or form.

I don't like McConnel because he exercises his power as majority leader to block votes on anything he personally does not support. But Pelosi does the exact same thing. Regardless of party, the role of House Speaker and Senate Majority Leader has gained far more power than was intended by the framers. Reform is needed
cowboypack02
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Wolfpackrich1 said:

cowboypack02 said:

Wolfpackrich1 said:

Today we get another nail in the coffin of replacing the worse President this country has ever seen. Donald J Trump
I'm curious...why is Trump the worse president this country has ever seen?
So many things but what stands out in my mind right now is the worse response from any western country on the Covid 19 virus. He continues to launch a fraud election campaign to raise money for his coffers while this virus has killed almost 300,000 Americans.

Has totally gutted the state department and offended allies that America will need one day.

Done nothing but rolled back regulations designed to help with Climate change.

And lied every day about something. Not just a slip on tongue or misstating of some hard statistics. Outright lies.




He lies every single day? You do realize that politicians lie daily...right? That's kinda their schtick. Obama lied his ass off....so did Clinton.

Roll back regulations on climate change? Like the Paris Climate accord that should of gone through the treaty process in the senate but didn't? It was a **** deal and anyone who read through it knows it. We were going to give billions a year to third world countries to improve their manufacturing, while having to cut back on out production. The biggest polluter in the world, China, didn't even have to start trying to meet the standard until 2032. Same for India.

Gutted the state department? The president is in charge of the state department. He gets to run it however he wants. But the fact that you had ambassadors who refused to put his picture up in the embassy, even though he was president, was a joke. You had people in the state department who testified to congress that the president should be following how then wanted to run foreign, not the guy we elected to manage foreign policy. They should of all been fired.

Offended Allies? Do you mean like England or Australia? Ya know....the countries that quite literally helped the CIA and FBI spy on the Trump when he was coming into office? Or are you talking about backing out of the Iran deal? A deal that we weren't allowed to verify that one side was actually doing what they were suppose. The same Iran that were yelling in the streets "Death to America!" Or are you talking about our neighbors in Central America that were forced to take care of their own populations and not send droves on people here illegally to the US. Your mad because the guy stood up for the country instead of just bowing down to everyone else.

As far as the CoronaVirus......I get that it could of been handled better. I also think that its pretty disingenuous of you try any put all of the blame at the feet of Trump. The states were in charge of their own restrictions and policies, not the Federal government. That's how it should be.

Raising money for a fraud campaign? For starter the guy is having to pay court cost and the cost of audits, lawyers, and whatever else is part of that effort. That doesn't make it a fraudulent campaign. There's lots of evidence that fraud was committed during this past election.

Your problem is that you hold the guy up to a standard of being holier than thou and then absolutely **** on him because he isn't and the only reason that you do it is because of the letter behind his name. If he was a democrat you would be fine with what he was doing. You would say that he was elected by the people to manage foreign policy and how he manages regulations. You can admit to that....its ok. The truth is that Biden is going to be put in office in a few weeks and you are going to sing the guy's songs like he is the next coming because of the letter behind his name and the next time a republican is elected he is going to be the worse human in the world again......







ncsualum05
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The real injustice is no court is willing to hear it out. They deny even giving them a hearing. It's insane. You so sure they won't win... give them a chance to present their case. If they rule against it then fine you'll still have the bickering but that would surely help restore even a little bit of confidence and at least pretending you give a damn about the law. As of now the attitude is that we're not going to hear it regardless. We don't care about the law, the state's laws, or the constitution b/c you don't have "standing".

cowboypack02
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IseWolf22 said:

Pacfanweb said:

I believe Romney will fall in line with the party if he becomes Senate Majority Leader.

I don't agree with all he's done, but I don't think he'll be any worse than McConnell or anyone else was.

Hopefully we'll get to see that, I don't want one party controlling all 3.
Republicans had all 3 from 2016-2018. They fought amongst themselves and barely got anything done. Democrats would do exactly the same thing. They are not unified in any way, shape or form.

I don't like McConnel because he exercises his power as majority leader to block votes on anything he personally does not support. But Pelosi does the exact same thing. Regardless of party, the role of House Speaker and Senate Majority Leader has gained far more power than was intended by the framers. Reform is needed
Last time we got democrats controlling all three offices was when we got to hear the infamous line from Nancy Pelosi "you have to pass it to see what's in it". And they sure as hell passed it
cowboypack02
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Apparently the legislatures from both Georgia and PA have decided to send their own group of electors. If Michigan decided to do that as well its gonna get very interesting very quickly in DC
ncsualum05
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cowboypack02 said:

Apparently the legislatures from both Georgia and PA have decided to send their own group of electors. If Michigan decided to do that as well its gonna get very interesting very quickly in DC
What? No offense but do you have a link? I don't see those legislatures sending anyone but Biden electors.
dogplasma
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Georgia and PA electors have already voted. Wisconsin too.
PackBacker07
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Are you sure?

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/georgia-democratic-electors-cast-states-16-votes-for-joe-biden

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/pennsylvania-electoral-college-vote-biden-trump-20201214.html
Y'all means ALL.
mrcpack17
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2020/electoral-college-vote-tracker/

I know it's the Washington Post and not the trusted, vetted, and infallible Twitter/Parler/Tumbler sources you guys use in this thread, but it's a nice consolidated locale for the EC vote count.
IseWolf22
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cowboypack02 said:

IseWolf22 said:

Pacfanweb said:

I believe Romney will fall in line with the party if he becomes Senate Majority Leader.

I don't agree with all he's done, but I don't think he'll be any worse than McConnell or anyone else was.

Hopefully we'll get to see that, I don't want one party controlling all 3.
Republicans had all 3 from 2016-2018. They fought amongst themselves and barely got anything done. Democrats would do exactly the same thing. They are not unified in any way, shape or form.

I don't like McConnel because he exercises his power as majority leader to block votes on anything he personally does not support. But Pelosi does the exact same thing. Regardless of party, the role of House Speaker and Senate Majority Leader has gained far more power than was intended by the framers. Reform is needed
Last time we got democrats controlling all three offices was when we got to hear the infamous line from Nancy Pelosi "you have to pass it to see what's in it". And they sure as hell passed it
That's standard procedure for both parties right now. Very few members of congress are able to read a bill (or care to) before it's voted on
caryking
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IseWolf22 said:

caryking said:

Civilized said:

caryking said:

Pacfanweb said:

cowboypack02 said:

From the audit that was released by Michigan this morning per a Judge's order....

"We conclude that the Dominion Voting System is intentionally and purposefully designed with inherent errors to create a systematic fraud and influence election results. The system intentionally generates an enormously high number of ballot errors. The electronic ballots are then transferred for adjudication. The intentional errors lead to bulk adjudication of ballots with no oversight, no transparency, and no audit trail. This leads to voter or election fraud. Base on our study, we conclude that The Dominion Voting System should not have been used in Michigan. We further conclude that the results of Antrim Country should not have been certified."

Another quote from the audit

"Significantly, the computer system shows vote adjudication logs for prior years; but all adjudication log entries for the 2020 election cycle are missing. The adjudication process is the simplest way to manually manipulate votes. The lack of records prevents and form of audit accountability, and their conspicuous absence is extremely suspicions since the files exist for previous years using the same software. Removal of these files violates state law and prevents a meaningful audit, even if the Secretary wanted to conduct an audit. We must conclude that the 2020 election cycle records have been manually removed."

Give me a ****ing break man....

Link if you want to read through yourself: https://t.co/OfBvjzm5Nx?amp=1



But Erik Grill, an assistant attorney general representing Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, warned that the analysis is "inaccurate, incomplete and misleading."

"There's no reason to hide," Grill said during a virtual court hearing Monday morning. "There is nothing to hide."
If this analysis was done by a Trump group, then I can definitely see why some would say that it is biased. So, Eric Grill, get in there and prove them wrong. Do it together!

I said this a long time ago... It's really time for the Democrats to prove we didn't have fraud. I got slammed for that!

So, instead of saying ""inaccurate, incomplete and misleading"., which sounds like what the Trump team is saying; get in there together to understand what the Hell is happening. Why would anybody not support this?

We need the entire country (well, I know we will always have people that believe in crap) believing this was a legitimate election, not just 50%!!!

Why is there all of a sudden the presumption of metaphorical guilt in our electoral system, and a requirement that we must prove the system's innocence? Because we had Fraud! Why want you support reviewing the process? I'm not alone as 1/2 the country thinks we had fraud. Let's prove 1/2 the country wrong! Then, your candidate will go in with more legitimacy...

Nothing in our system's current or past operations justifies the presumption that the system is crooked until proven otherwise. How do you know that? You could say we never have investigated whether our system is crooked.
What you may not like is that someone is calling the system in account. The same person that called other country's in account for not doing there financial part regarding NATO, etc... The same person calling China our biggest threat. The same person that pulled us out of the Paris Accord. The same person that held up funding for the WHO. The same person that got N. Korea to stop the shenanigans.

The real questions is: Why would you expect anything different?
Proof is always one sided. In statistics, there is always a "null" or default hypothesis (No fraud). Evidence must be provided to prove the default hypothesis is wrong (That there is fraud).

In the U.S. we don't ask defendants to prove that they are innocent. The state must prove they are guilty.
You're missing the point. Proof has been provided, in fact the system analysis has shown potentially huge issues. So, I'm asking you, and other democrats, to support disproving that issues brought up. That way, Biden would go in as a legitimate President (in other words, having more than 50% believing that he won without fraud).

If Democrats don't join in and help with these allegations, the Biden presidency will be wrought with doubt.
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
cowboypack02
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PackBacker07 said:

Are you sure?

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/georgia-democratic-electors-cast-states-16-votes-for-joe-biden

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/pennsylvania-electoral-college-vote-biden-trump-20201214.html



cowboypack02
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IseWolf22 said:

cowboypack02 said:

IseWolf22 said:

Pacfanweb said:

I believe Romney will fall in line with the party if he becomes Senate Majority Leader.

I don't agree with all he's done, but I don't think he'll be any worse than McConnell or anyone else was.

Hopefully we'll get to see that, I don't want one party controlling all 3.
Republicans had all 3 from 2016-2018. They fought amongst themselves and barely got anything done. Democrats would do exactly the same thing. They are not unified in any way, shape or form.

I don't like McConnel because he exercises his power as majority leader to block votes on anything he personally does not support. But Pelosi does the exact same thing. Regardless of party, the role of House Speaker and Senate Majority Leader has gained far more power than was intended by the framers. Reform is needed
Last time we got democrats controlling all three offices was when we got to hear the infamous line from Nancy Pelosi "you have to pass it to see what's in it". And they sure as hell passed it
That's standard procedure for both parties right now. Very few members of congress are able to read a bill (or care to) before it's voted on
It shouldn't happen on either side but Pelosi was the one to say it
caryking
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IseWolf22 said:

cowboypack02 said:

IseWolf22 said:

Pacfanweb said:

I believe Romney will fall in line with the party if he becomes Senate Majority Leader.

I don't agree with all he's done, but I don't think he'll be any worse than McConnell or anyone else was.

Hopefully we'll get to see that, I don't want one party controlling all 3.
Republicans had all 3 from 2016-2018. They fought amongst themselves and barely got anything done. Democrats would do exactly the same thing. They are not unified in any way, shape or form.

I don't like McConnel because he exercises his power as majority leader to block votes on anything he personally does not support. But Pelosi does the exact same thing. Regardless of party, the role of House Speaker and Senate Majority Leader has gained far more power than was intended by the framers. Reform is needed
Last time we got democrats controlling all three offices was when we got to hear the infamous line from Nancy Pelosi "you have to pass it to see what's in it". And they sure as hell passed it
That's standard procedure for both parties right now. Very few members of congress are able to read a bill (or care to) before it's voted on
I am sure the elected officials can read the bills. Thats just a red herring. Do they read the bills, well, probably not. The bills are written by staffer, lobbying groups, lawyers, etc...

That being said, the example by Nancy Pelosi was extremely egregious because in took on such a big part of the economy. In addition, the Democrats did it without any Republican support. That's a problem because of the impact on our society and economy.

Funny things is: Democrats raised Hell about ACB's nomination and placement to the SCOTUS. It was done without any Democrat support.
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
cowboypack02
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caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

cowboypack02 said:

IseWolf22 said:

Pacfanweb said:

I believe Romney will fall in line with the party if he becomes Senate Majority Leader.

I don't agree with all he's done, but I don't think he'll be any worse than McConnell or anyone else was.

Hopefully we'll get to see that, I don't want one party controlling all 3.
Republicans had all 3 from 2016-2018. They fought amongst themselves and barely got anything done. Democrats would do exactly the same thing. They are not unified in any way, shape or form.

I don't like McConnel because he exercises his power as majority leader to block votes on anything he personally does not support. But Pelosi does the exact same thing. Regardless of party, the role of House Speaker and Senate Majority Leader has gained far more power than was intended by the framers. Reform is needed
Last time we got democrats controlling all three offices was when we got to hear the infamous line from Nancy Pelosi "you have to pass it to see what's in it". And they sure as hell passed it
That's standard procedure for both parties right now. Very few members of congress are able to read a bill (or care to) before it's voted on
I am sure the elected officials can read the bills. Thats just a red herring. Do they read the bills, well, probably not. The bills are written by staffer, lobbying groups, lawyers, etc...

That being said, the example by Nancy Pelosi was extremely egregious because in took on such a big part of the economy. In addition, the Democrats did it without any Republican support. That's a problem because of the impact on our society and economy.

Funny things is: Democrats raised Hell about ACB's nomination and placement to the SCOTUS. It was done without any Democrat support.
This happens on both side and it shouldn't
dogplasma
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Some interesting history behind what GA and PA have done that I'd never heard before. Not the same circumstance as Hawaii in 1960 (where this comes from) but same idea. It's basically a placeholder in case anything emerges following the governor's signature that would show the vote count in that state went the other way. The main difference from 1960 and now is that Hawaii was undergoing an active recount in an extremely narrow race when the legislature did what they did. Today there's no such thing and nothing of substance on the horizon.

Check out "1960 United States presidential election in Hawaii" on Wikipedia for the background.
IseWolf22
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caryking said:

IseWolf22 said:

caryking said:

Civilized said:

caryking said:

Pacfanweb said:

cowboypack02 said:

From the audit that was released by Michigan this morning per a Judge's order....

"We conclude that the Dominion Voting System is intentionally and purposefully designed with inherent errors to create a systematic fraud and influence election results. The system intentionally generates an enormously high number of ballot errors. The electronic ballots are then transferred for adjudication. The intentional errors lead to bulk adjudication of ballots with no oversight, no transparency, and no audit trail. This leads to voter or election fraud. Base on our study, we conclude that The Dominion Voting System should not have been used in Michigan. We further conclude that the results of Antrim Country should not have been certified."

Another quote from the audit

"Significantly, the computer system shows vote adjudication logs for prior years; but all adjudication log entries for the 2020 election cycle are missing. The adjudication process is the simplest way to manually manipulate votes. The lack of records prevents and form of audit accountability, and their conspicuous absence is extremely suspicions since the files exist for previous years using the same software. Removal of these files violates state law and prevents a meaningful audit, even if the Secretary wanted to conduct an audit. We must conclude that the 2020 election cycle records have been manually removed."

Give me a ****ing break man....

Link if you want to read through yourself: https://t.co/OfBvjzm5Nx?amp=1



But Erik Grill, an assistant attorney general representing Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, warned that the analysis is "inaccurate, incomplete and misleading."

"There's no reason to hide," Grill said during a virtual court hearing Monday morning. "There is nothing to hide."
If this analysis was done by a Trump group, then I can definitely see why some would say that it is biased. So, Eric Grill, get in there and prove them wrong. Do it together!

I said this a long time ago... It's really time for the Democrats to prove we didn't have fraud. I got slammed for that!

So, instead of saying ""inaccurate, incomplete and misleading"., which sounds like what the Trump team is saying; get in there together to understand what the Hell is happening. Why would anybody not support this?

We need the entire country (well, I know we will always have people that believe in crap) believing this was a legitimate election, not just 50%!!!

Why is there all of a sudden the presumption of metaphorical guilt in our electoral system, and a requirement that we must prove the system's innocence? Because we had Fraud! Why want you support reviewing the process? I'm not alone as 1/2 the country thinks we had fraud. Let's prove 1/2 the country wrong! Then, your candidate will go in with more legitimacy...

Nothing in our system's current or past operations justifies the presumption that the system is crooked until proven otherwise. How do you know that? You could say we never have investigated whether our system is crooked.
What you may not like is that someone is calling the system in account. The same person that called other country's in account for not doing there financial part regarding NATO, etc... The same person calling China our biggest threat. The same person that pulled us out of the Paris Accord. The same person that held up funding for the WHO. The same person that got N. Korea to stop the shenanigans.

The real questions is: Why would you expect anything different?
Proof is always one sided. In statistics, there is always a "null" or default hypothesis (No fraud). Evidence must be provided to prove the default hypothesis is wrong (That there is fraud).

In the U.S. we don't ask defendants to prove that they are innocent. The state must prove they are guilty.
You're missing the point. Proof has been provided, in fact the system analysis has shown potentially huge issues. So, I'm asking you, and other democrats, to support disproving that issues brought up. That way, Biden would go in as a legitimate President (in other words, having more than 50% believing that he won without fraud).

If Democrats don't join in and help with these allegations, the Biden presidency will be wrought with doubt.
"Potential issues" are not proof.

There has been no proof. Just a long list of hearsay and conjecture without physical evidence. Nothing of substance has been put before a judge. News organizations keep debunking these stories and you refuse to believe them. Hell, Pacfanweb has debunked plenty on this thread and y'all ignore him.

And again, I'm not a Democrat. Biden is the first national level Democrat I've ever voted for. The U.S. is not neatly divided into Republicans and Democrats. Independents outnumber both.

PackBacker07
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Yes, but these aren't the official electors whose votes will go to DC. These alternate GOP votes are just for show.
Y'all means ALL.
Wolfpackrich1
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cowboypack02 said:

Wolfpackrich1 said:

cowboypack02 said:

Wolfpackrich1 said:

Today we get another nail in the coffin of replacing the worse President this country has ever seen. Donald J Trump
I'm curious...why is Trump the worse president this country has ever seen?
So many things but what stands out in my mind right now is the worse response from any western country on the Covid 19 virus. He continues to launch a fraud election campaign to raise money for his coffers while this virus has killed almost 300,000 Americans.

Has totally gutted the state department and offended allies that America will need one day.

Done nothing but rolled back regulations designed to help with Climate change.

And lied every day about something. Not just a slip on tongue or misstating of some hard statistics. Outright lies.




He lies every single day? You do realize that politicians lie daily...right? That's kinda their schtick. Obama lied his ass off....so did Clinton.

Roll back regulations on climate change? Like the Paris Climate accord that should of gone through the treaty process in the senate but didn't? It was a **** deal and anyone who read through it knows it. We were going to give billions a year to third world countries to improve their manufacturing, while having to cut back on out production. The biggest polluter in the world, China, didn't even have to start trying to meet the standard until 2032. Same for India.

Gutted the state department? The president is in charge of the state department. He gets to run it however he wants. But the fact that you had ambassadors who refused to put his picture up in the embassy, even though he was president, was a joke. You had people in the state department who testified to congress that the president should be following how then wanted to run foreign, not the guy we elected to manage foreign policy. They should of all been fired.

Offended Allies? Do you mean like England or Australia? Ya know....the countries that quite literally helped the CIA and FBI spy on the Trump when he was coming into office? Or are you talking about backing out of the Iran deal? A deal that we weren't allowed to verify that one side was actually doing what they were suppose. The same Iran that were yelling in the streets "Death to America!" Or are you talking about our neighbors in Central America that were forced to take care of their own populations and not send droves on people here illegally to the US. Your mad because the guy stood up for the country instead of just bowing down to everyone else.

As far as the CoronaVirus......I get that it could of been handled better. I also think that its pretty disingenuous of you try any put all of the blame at the feet of Trump. The states were in charge of their own restrictions and policies, not the Federal government. That's how it should be.

Raising money for a fraud campaign? For starter the guy is having to pay court cost and the cost of audits, lawyers, and whatever else is part of that effort. That doesn't make it a fraudulent campaign. There's lots of evidence that fraud was committed during this past election.

Your problem is that you hold the guy up to a standard of being holier than thou and then absolutely **** on him because he isn't and the only reason that you do it is because of the letter behind his name. If he was a democrat you would be fine with what he was doing. You would say that he was elected by the people to manage foreign policy and how he manages regulations. You can admit to that....its ok. The truth is that Biden is going to be put in office in a few weeks and you are going to sing the guy's songs like he is the next coming because of the letter behind his name and the next time a republican is elected he is going to be the worse human in the world again......








Trump is the biggest liar the presidency has ever seen. not to mention his IQ has to be incredibly low to even ask if you can put disinfectant in your lungs. Please do not say that he was just kidding. I saw the press conference live that day. He asked the question. Then he does what he always does. he lied about that. Yes thank god I am a Democrat.

Republicans want to win so bad they will back Trump when it goes against every democratic principal this country was founded on.
Please just look no further than Sydney Powell Who Trump claimed was a lawyer on his team for election fraud tell she went to far with outlandish claims. But if you just read a few posts up and you will see a person on here still posting her outlandish claims as facts on here.

The Republican Party has lost their way under Trump. I do not see them getting it back. You just lost the Presidency by almost 7 Million votes. You have lost the poplar vote 7 out of the last 8 elections. I understand about electoral votes and I understand how it works and yes I understand it is the law. The electoral vote 5 out of the last 8.

You control the Senate by the skin of your teeth and that is with a majority of votes also. No I do not wan to change how we elect senators I am just making a point that you are governing from a minority electorate.

And before somebody points out the Democrats control the House by the skin of their teeth. I realize that. But it is with a majority of the electorate.
The right make words like Liberal and socialist bad words. Trying to make a villain. yes if any type of political view is taken to far it is bad thing. Please keep in mind that goes for Conservative or Trumpian.


Civilized
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IseWolf22 said:

caryking said:

What you may not like is that someone is calling the system in account. The same person that called other country's in account for not doing there financial part regarding NATO, etc... The same person calling China our biggest threat. The same person that pulled us out of the Paris Accord. The same person that held up funding for the WHO. The same person that got N. Korea to stop the shenanigans.

The real questions is: Why would you expect anything different?
Proof is always one sided. In statistics, there is always a "null" or default hypothesis (No fraud). Evidence must be provided to prove the default hypothesis is wrong (That there is fraud).

In the U.S. we don't ask defendants to prove that they are innocent. The state must prove they are guilty.

Exactly. A cornerstone of American justice is that our systems aren't founded on a logical fallacy, i.e. you must prove your innocence before believed to be innocent. There is presumption of innocence.

You can't prove negative claims, i.e. something doesn't exist, unless you prove that every possible occurrence of that thing doesn't exist.

In contrast, you can prove fraud does exist by simply providing evidence of the positive claims.

Not only is proving negative claims essentially impossible logistically, it's also profoundly un-American to make people or institutions 'prove' their innocence.
caryking
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Somebody, please provide me with an alternative documentary to this.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/2020-election-investigation-who-is-stealing-america_3617562.html

On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
caryking
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Civilized said:

IseWolf22 said:

caryking said:

What you may not like is that someone is calling the system in account. The same person that called other country's in account for not doing there financial part regarding NATO, etc... The same person calling China our biggest threat. The same person that pulled us out of the Paris Accord. The same person that held up funding for the WHO. The same person that got N. Korea to stop the shenanigans.

The real questions is: Why would you expect anything different?
Proof is always one sided. In statistics, there is always a "null" or default hypothesis (No fraud). Evidence must be provided to prove the default hypothesis is wrong (That there is fraud).

In the U.S. we don't ask defendants to prove that they are innocent. The state must prove they are guilty.

Exactly. A cornerstone of American justice is that our systems aren't founded on a logical fallacy, i.e. you must prove your innocence before believed to be innocent. There is presumption of innocence.

You can't prove negative claims, i.e. something doesn't exist, unless you prove that every possible occurrence of that thing doesn't exist.

In contrast, you can prove fraud does exist by simply providing evidence of the positive claims.

Not only is proving negative claims essentially impossible logistically, it's also profoundly un-American to make people or institutions 'prove' there innocence.
I don't think anybody disagrees with that; however, the sixth amendment (https://constitution.laws.com/american-history/constitution/constitutional-amendments/sixth-amendment) is specific to an individual. This is not an individual. This is about an election (not a person) that has significant irregularities .

Watch the video/documentary in my above post and tell me this elections shouldn't be a bi-partisan investigation. Or, you can provide me a video/documentary that goes as in-depth showing a complete different view. I know, you will say, the courts have ruled against the campaign over and over again...

If you walk away from the video saying: nothing there, move on.. then, we will have 50% of the people saying the election was stolen. That is what the polls are saying, not me (BTW, I'm not a poll person; Dems typically are, so use it if you want to).

Yes, I think Democrats have a responsibility (we are all in this together, right - collectivism) to uncover what has actually happened... BTW, not for this election; rather, for all future elections.

On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
caryking
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if true, why?

https://populist.press/logs-missing-from-antrim-county-dominion-voting-machines/
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
SupplyChainPack
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IseWolf22 said:

cowboypack02 said:

IseWolf22 said:

Pacfanweb said:

I believe Romney will fall in line with the party if he becomes Senate Majority Leader.

I don't agree with all he's done, but I don't think he'll be any worse than McConnell or anyone else was.

Hopefully we'll get to see that, I don't want one party controlling all 3.
Republicans had all 3 from 2016-2018. They fought amongst themselves and barely got anything done. Democrats would do exactly the same thing. They are not unified in any way, shape or form.

I don't like McConnel because he exercises his power as majority leader to block votes on anything he personally does not support. But Pelosi does the exact same thing. Regardless of party, the role of House Speaker and Senate Majority Leader has gained far more power than was intended by the framers. Reform is needed
Last time we got democrats controlling all three offices was when we got to hear the infamous line from Nancy Pelosi "you have to pass it to see what's in it". And they sure as hell passed it
That's standard procedure for both parties right now. Very few members of congress are able to read a bill (or care to) before it's voted on


Bull crap.
SupplyChainPack
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caryking said:

if true, why?

https://populist.press/logs-missing-from-antrim-county-dominion-voting-machines/



There can be only one reason. And everyone knows it.
cowboypack02
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Apparently the Nevada legislature cast their electoral college votes for Trump as well.....that's three states.

I've also read but not confirmed that the Michigan legislature were going to cast electoral college votes for Trump as well but weren't allowed into the state legislature building.

This is fun
dogplasma
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SupplyChainPack said:

caryking said:

if true, why?

https://populist.press/logs-missing-from-antrim-county-dominion-voting-machines/



There can be only one reason. And everyone knows it.

Is that from the same guy that confused Michigan with Minnesota and also reported inaccurate voter turnout percentages for parts of Michigan?
Pacfanweb
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caryking said:

if true, why?

https://populist.press/logs-missing-from-antrim-county-dominion-voting-machines/


I'm going to go with not true so "why" isn't particularly relevant
BBW12OG
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Wolfpackrich1 said:

cowboypack02 said:

Wolfpackrich1 said:

cowboypack02 said:

Wolfpackrich1 said:

Today we get another nail in the coffin of replacing the worse President this country has ever seen. Donald J Trump
I'm curious...why is Trump the worse president this country has ever seen?
So many things but what stands out in my mind right now is the worse response from any western country on the Covid 19 virus. He continues to launch a fraud election campaign to raise money for his coffers while this virus has killed almost 300,000 Americans.

Has totally gutted the state department and offended allies that America will need one day.

Done nothing but rolled back regulations designed to help with Climate change.

And lied every day about something. Not just a slip on tongue or misstating of some hard statistics. Outright lies.




He lies every single day? You do realize that politicians lie daily...right? That's kinda their schtick. Obama lied his ass off....so did Clinton.

Roll back regulations on climate change? Like the Paris Climate accord that should of gone through the treaty process in the senate but didn't? It was a **** deal and anyone who read through it knows it. We were going to give billions a year to third world countries to improve their manufacturing, while having to cut back on out production. The biggest polluter in the world, China, didn't even have to start trying to meet the standard until 2032. Same for India.

Gutted the state department? The president is in charge of the state department. He gets to run it however he wants. But the fact that you had ambassadors who refused to put his picture up in the embassy, even though he was president, was a joke. You had people in the state department who testified to congress that the president should be following how then wanted to run foreign, not the guy we elected to manage foreign policy. They should of all been fired.

Offended Allies? Do you mean like England or Australia? Ya know....the countries that quite literally helped the CIA and FBI spy on the Trump when he was coming into office? Or are you talking about backing out of the Iran deal? A deal that we weren't allowed to verify that one side was actually doing what they were suppose. The same Iran that were yelling in the streets "Death to America!" Or are you talking about our neighbors in Central America that were forced to take care of their own populations and not send droves on people here illegally to the US. Your mad because the guy stood up for the country instead of just bowing down to everyone else.

As far as the CoronaVirus......I get that it could of been handled better. I also think that its pretty disingenuous of you try any put all of the blame at the feet of Trump. The states were in charge of their own restrictions and policies, not the Federal government. That's how it should be.

Raising money for a fraud campaign? For starter the guy is having to pay court cost and the cost of audits, lawyers, and whatever else is part of that effort. That doesn't make it a fraudulent campaign. There's lots of evidence that fraud was committed during this past election.

Your problem is that you hold the guy up to a standard of being holier than thou and then absolutely **** on him because he isn't and the only reason that you do it is because of the letter behind his name. If he was a democrat you would be fine with what he was doing. You would say that he was elected by the people to manage foreign policy and how he manages regulations. You can admit to that....its ok. The truth is that Biden is going to be put in office in a few weeks and you are going to sing the guy's songs like he is the next coming because of the letter behind his name and the next time a republican is elected he is going to be the worse human in the world again......








Trump is the biggest liar the presidency has ever seen. not to mention his IQ has to be incredibly low to even ask if you can put disinfectant in your lungs. Please do not say that he was just kidding. I saw the press conference live that day. He asked the question. Then he does what he always does. he lied about that. Yes thank god I am a Democrat.

Republicans want to win so bad they will back Trump when it goes against every democratic principal this country was founded on.
Please just look no further than Sydney Powell Who Trump claimed was a lawyer on his team for election fraud tell she went to far with outlandish claims. But if you just read a few posts up and you will see a person on here still posting her outlandish claims as facts on here.

The Republican Party has lost their way under Trump. I do not see them getting it back. You just lost the Presidency by almost 7 Million votes. You have lost the poplar vote 7 out of the last 8 elections. I understand about electoral votes and I understand how it works and yes I understand it is the law. The electoral vote 5 out of the last 8.

You control the Senate by the skin of your teeth and that is with a majority of votes also. No I do not wan to change how we elect senators I am just making a point that you are governing from a minority electorate.

And before somebody points out the Democrats control the House by the skin of their teeth. I realize that. But it is with a majority of the electorate.
The right make words like Liberal and socialist bad words. Trying to make a villain. yes if any type of political view is taken to far it is bad thing. Please keep in mind that goes for Conservative or Trumpian.



Here's a little Civics lesson for you. Using words like "popular vote" you lose. Not explaining it to you again. The House will flip GOP in two years. The Senate will never be controlled by the democrats again after 2022. The cities of LA and NY would control who wins the Presidency in most years if it were up to popular vote. The democrats are fractured and it will be exposed tremendously in the next two years. Keep celebrating your White House victory. in the last 40 years the scoreboard is still favoring the GOP in a big way. Not to mention what is the SCOTUS?
cowboypack02
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Apparently the Arizona Legislature is also looking at sending electors to vote for Trump as well - If so that's 4 states.

caryking
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Pacfanweb said:

caryking said:

if true, why?

https://populist.press/logs-missing-from-antrim-county-dominion-voting-machines/


I'm going to go with not true so "why" isn't particularly relevant

I know you can do better than that...
On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Pacfanweb
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caryking said:

Pacfanweb said:

caryking said:

if true, why?

https://populist.press/logs-missing-from-antrim-county-dominion-voting-machines/


I'm going to go with not true so "why" isn't particularly relevant

I know you can do better than that...
Provide a better source and maybe I can. Otherwise, that source isn't credible, and not a single credible source I can find to back it up, so I'm going with "not true", like most everything else those types of sources have reported so far.
Wolfpackrich1
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I need zero civics lessons from you. As stated in my post . I know what electoral votes are and I know the law.
My question to you is why are you sensitve to the term poplar vote. Is it because you know your are skating on a ice thin edge of losing every election in the future?

Must be the reason. Here is your civics lesson. Trump is trying to do away with American democracy.
Not cool fella
cowboypack02
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cowboypack02 said:

Apparently the Arizona Legislature is also looking at sending electors to vote for Trump as well - If so that's 4 states.


At this point its my understanding that the legislatures of Nevada, Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Arizona have cast their electoral college votes for Trump. Even though the state is sending democrat electors, the legislature of each state can send electors as well. When you get dueling electors from a state the VP gets to decide which to accept, or not accept either.

This is fun....
cowboypack02
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Wolfpackrich1 said:

I need zero civics lessons from you. As stated in my post . I know what electoral votes are and I know the law.
My question to you is why are you sensitve to the term poplar vote. Is it because you know your are skating on a ice thin edge of losing every election in the future?

Must be the reason. Here is your civics lesson. Trump is trying to do away with American democracy.
Not cool fella
The popular vote has nothing to do with our type of government. No one understands why it keeps getting brought up
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