TheStorm said:

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Daviewolf83 said:

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If people think the pro-maskers are going to quietly go away if the government removes masking for kids, you are sadly mistaken. Case in point are teachers in Philadelphia. They are currently protesting a reduction in the quarantine time for kids. Just imagine their reaction if school mask mandates are lifted.

Some teachers in Philadelphia are actually protesting shortened quarantines. Imagine what they will do when it's time to end the mask mandate!https://t.co/zaoaS31OvU

— NYC Angry Mom (@angrybklynmom) February 3, 2022

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Davie,

as we both know this has nothing whatsoever to do with health concerns... this is only about politics and trying to set themselves (not the rank and file teachers - just the union leaders thenselves) up for more money from the Democrats for the next two major cycles of elections.

It is pure political graft at it's very finest... democracy style nonetheless... what say you there, Civ?



"I don't want to say... after all he is one of my own kind" (Right, Civ?... Yeah, you've got that **** mastered...)

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Based on the poll results I posted on the previous page, I do believe there are people (especially teachers) who are vaccinated, boosted, and still afraid of becoming infected with Covid. As I mentioned in my post from this morning, the messaging of our healthcare leaders, our political leaders, and the MSM have fomented the fear and they have done nothing to convey how well these vaccines protect most people. The constant focus on cases and hospitalization, with no nuance, has lead to this general fear amongst the population.

I do agree the union leadership is using this fear to continue to gain and hold on to leverage they have gained over the past couple of years, but I do think the fear is real. Until healthcare leaders, politicians, and MSM shift their focus to the protection the vaccines bring, you will continue to see resistance. I just do not believe the union leadership will lead his course correction, since it is not in their best interest.

We are in for a long battle and the children are paying the price. Add to this the college students, like my son. Fully vaccinated and boosted (including the professors), since it is required for attendance at his university. They are required to mask up in all indoor spaces and when doing weightlifting and conditioning indoors. It is absolute madness. There is a large faction of this country who want ZERO cases and are doing everything they can do achieve this goal. This is why I say the zero-Covid and the long-Covid people are cut from the same cloth.

packgrad said:

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More Covid misinformation. For some reason liberal fallacies about covid and vaccines are allowed to remain on social media.

“With the omicron variant, kids are either going to get the vaccine or they're likely to get a serious condition of omicron,” Dr. Emanuel says. https://t.co/g7SdLvv3Qx

— MSNBC (@MSNBC) February 4, 2022

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I actually filed a misinformation complaint with Twitter on this tweet. I know they will not do anything, since they agree with this kind of information, but it needed to be done anyway. I encourage others to do the same.

packgrad said:

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Here it is again. It's a shame that people complained about politicizing the virus when others questioned government overreach early in the pandemic yet crickets as it pertains to all of the main stream media not covering this study. Wonder why…

CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo completely avoid Johns Hopkins study finding COVID lockdowns ineffective https://t.co/P2ZcREJ6Si

— Fox News (@FoxNews) February 4, 2022

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We had ample evidence early on that lockdowns are not an effective method in controlling viral spread. There were papers and studies provided that said lockdowns are not effective. Despite all of this information and past experience what did our "very smart" healthcare policy advisors to recommend? Lockdowns, of course. One of the basic tenets of government is - when there is a crisis, you have to be seen doing something."

In the early days of the pandemic we had travel ban policies regarding at first, China. When the virus spread to Europe, travel ban policies were extended to travel from Europe. What did these travel bans accomplish? Nothing. The virus still spread and it spread because it was already here. By the time you realize you have a virus spreading in a population, it is too late to enact travel bans to stop it.

So, when it was disclosed we have a new, very aggressive variant spreading in South Africa, what did the leadership of this country and other countries do? They issued a travel ban. I just shook my head, knowing it was too late for this to have any effect on the spread of the new variant in the population. Again, the government had to appear to be doing "something" to protect people, when some of us knew - it was too late and would prove ineffective.

Today, we have mask mandates in many parts of America. As I and others have pointed out, we are still requiring the masking of school kids and university students in many states and regions of the country. We have many businesses, schools, universities, and state governments requiring proof of vaccination to enter or participate. My question is - what is the purpose? Is the purpose to force people to become vaccinated to participate or is it to protect the vaccinated? It is either one or the other. My view - it is to enforce compliance though the use of a backdoor mandate. If people are vaccinated, the vast majority are protected against severe illness, hospitalization, and death.

The message should be if you are vaccinated, you are protected and you DO NOT have to worry about coming in contact with unvaccinated people. With these vaccine passport/backdoor mandates, what we have actually caused is a DISTRUST in the vaccines. This is a big reason why we now have a significant amount of the population who do not trust the vaccines to protect them (see the chart below). As a result, they live in constant fear of becoming infected and believe the only way to be protected is to maintain mask mandates, vaccine passports, and social distancing. So, if you are vaccinated and support the mandated masking and vaccine passports, I ask you one question. Why are you afraid of the unvaccinated?

Additionally, we have many healthcare and government leaders believing that it is the mask mandates, vaccine passports, and social distancing that caused the Summer Wave (Delta) and the Summer Wave (Omicron) to end. As you have noticed, I refer to these as the Summer Wave and the Winter Wave and this is on purpose. The reason the Summer Wave (Delta) and Winter Wave (Omicron) ended (or are ending) is due to seasonality and viral burnout. The draconian measures of mandated masking and vaccine passports are not the primary reason for the waves ending and if you believe they are, then you are denying seasonality. Several of us on this thread predicted the Winter Wave last year. We predicted the Summer Wave last year. We predicted the Winter Wave this year.

Guess what? There will be another wave this coming Summer. The question is this - will it be propelled by Omicron reinfections and new Omicron infections or will there be some new variant to propel it along. This it the only question remaining in my mind. If it is a new variant, it is likely the wave will be more severe and if it is not a new variant, but just people being reinfected by Omicron (or Delta), it is likely it will be a less severe wave. I also predict our healthcare leaders and politicians will do the same thing in the next wave they are doing now. They will enact masking mandates, vaccine passports, and other draconian measures. The wave will rise and fall and again, they will deny seasonality and claim it was only by their action that the wave has ended. Until we recognize seasonality and its effect, we will continue this endless cycle.

Here is my final advice. If you are not vaccinated, get vaccinated. If you are not boosted, consider getting boosted, after discussing with your doctor. Regardless if you are vaccinated or unvaccinated, return to normal. Push back on mask mandates, vaccine passports, and other restrictions. If you do not trust the vaccines to protect you, then you are free to live in fear and wear a mask where ever you go. The choice is up to you.

This is the end of my frustrated rant for today.

Wayland said:

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So according the NC DHHS that purple group being admitted to the hospital is close to 95% fully vaccinated (with a full 70% of them also being boosted).

Either that is a whole lot of WITH being admitted..... or?

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I would suggest the higher vaccine rates of the older populations (60+) has actually been more effective against Omicron than the NCDHHS graph would suggest. Below is a graph, showing the average number of daily hospital admissions by age group for this year's Winter Wave, compared to last year's Winter wave.

Please note the lesser vaccinated age groups have seen a much more significant increase in numbers than the older age groups. Given the much higher case rates for Omicron, you would expect to see much higher admissions for the 60+ age group (more in line with the younger, less vaccinated age groups) than you are actually seeing in the data.

My conclusion - vaccinations are still effective in keeping people out of the hospital.

Wayland said:

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Daviewolf83 said:

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Wayland said:

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So according the NC DHHS that purple group being admitted to the hospital is close to 95% fully vaccinated (with a full 70% of them also being boosted).

Either that is a whole lot of WITH being admitted..... or?

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I would suggest the higher vaccine rates of the older populations (60+) has actually been more effective against Omicron than the NCDHHS graph would suggest. Below is a graph, showing the average number of daily hospital admissions by age group for this year's Winter Wave, compared to last year's Winter wave.

Please note the lesser vaccinated age groups have seen a much more significant increase in numbers than the older age groups. Given the much higher case rates for Omicron, you would expect to see much higher admissions for the 60+ age group (more in line with the younger, less vaccinated age groups) than you are actually seeing in the data.

My conclusion - vaccinations are still effective in keeping people out of the hospital.

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That is why we are far past time for FOR/WITH stats

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I agree. At this point, I do not believe we will get the data. I do not think they are willing to invest the time/effort into reporting this information. I do need to ask my hospital records contact if this is something they are splitting out in the reporting to the state or if it is something they are not putting in the reporting database. My theory is the reporting database does not include this field and at this point, they are not going to update the database. I can probably get the information from my contact. We know the hospitals have the info, so I suspect my theory is correct.

For those who believe requiring masks on school children is a reasonable approach to controlling the pandemic (it isn't) and believe children are resilient and are not permanently harmed, I encourage you to spend some time reading the following article from a clinical psychologist on the potential effects. The idea that kids are resilient and will not suffer any harm due to the imposition of daily masking to attend school, is just a lie people tell themselves to make them feel better.

Of course, I am sure the psychologist who wrote the article is one of the many who are accepting "dark money" to express these views. One of the favorite new tropes of the child mask supporters is to accuse those of us who oppose child masking to be part of a vast, right-wing conspiracy (where have I heard that before) and are being funded by dark money in an effort to pepper social media with these outlandish views. If there is dark money involved, I wish some of it would come my way.

Psychologist's perspective on masks and children

Daviewolf83 said:

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Wayland said:

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Daviewolf83 said:

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Wayland said:

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So according the NC DHHS that purple group being admitted to the hospital is close to 95% fully vaccinated (with a full 70% of them also being boosted).

Either that is a whole lot of WITH being admitted..... or?

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I would suggest the higher vaccine rates of the older populations (60+) has actually been more effective against Omicron than the NCDHHS graph would suggest. Below is a graph, showing the average number of daily hospital admissions by age group for this year's Winter Wave, compared to last year's Winter wave.

Please note the lesser vaccinated age groups have seen a much more significant increase in numbers than the older age groups. Given the much higher case rates for Omicron, you would expect to see much higher admissions for the 60+ age group (more in line with the younger, less vaccinated age groups) than you are actually seeing in the data.

My conclusion - vaccinations are still effective in keeping people out of the hospital.

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That is why we are far past time for FOR/WITH stats

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I agree. At this point, I do not believe we will get the data. I do not think they are willing to invest the time/effort into reporting this information. I do need to ask my hospital records contact if this is something they are splitting out in the reporting to the state or if it is something they are not putting in the reporting database. My theory is the reporting database does not include this field and at this point, they are not going to update the database. I can probably get the information from my contact. We know the hospitals have the info, so I suspect my theory is correct.

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On the topic of "with" versus "for" with regards to hospital admissions, I offer the latest info from a different state in the US.

Just 29% of the COVID-19 patients at Frederick Health Hospital in Frederick, MD were there to get treatment for the virus. The rest tested positive for COVID after being admitted for other reasons, per the Frederick News Post.

— Amber Athey (@amber_athey) February 4, 2022