Biofire now has a national flu A print of 0.4% for the current week, which is very low but still a COV2-era high. CDC flu view not posted yet today. Good sign some places in US may have reached COV2 endemicity. pic.twitter.com/1VQWzwxz92
— Phil Kerpen (@kerpen) November 5, 2021
Mormad said:packgrad said:
UK approach to boosters.
"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
- everyone over 50
- people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
- people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
- frontline health and social care workers"
Unfortunately, most of the US falls into one of the 4 categories it seems.
42.5% over the age of 20 are obese
15% have lung dz
34 million have diabetes
Add in renal dz, htn, and myriad immunocompromised
A third of the population is over 50
Who knows how many live with folks falling into one of categories?
Health care facilities are major employers everywhere, and those folks have families... There are 22 million health care workers with families.
So even with cross over, i suspect most of our adult population should consider a booster based on uk recs. That's kind of sobering to me.
We can't do both? Most medical providers, if they are worth their salt, preach diet, exercise, sleep, etc. to all of their patients. We also do not want them to die of COVID while we are improving their diabetes or high blood pressure.packgrad said:Mormad said:packgrad said:
UK approach to boosters.
"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
- everyone over 50
- people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
- people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
- frontline health and social care workers"
Unfortunately, most of the US falls into one of the 4 categories it seems.
42.5% over the age of 20 are obese
15% have lung dz
34 million have diabetes
Add in renal dz, htn, and myriad immunocompromised
A third of the population is over 50
Who knows how many live with folks falling into one of categories?
Health care facilities are major employers everywhere, and those folks have families... There are 22 million health care workers with families.
So even with cross over, i suspect most of our adult population should consider a booster based on uk recs. That's kind of sobering to me.
Sure. There's a lot of things they should consider. Diet, exercise, sleep, etc. Government only wants to mandate an ineffective (at preventing the spread) vaccine.
Like wayland said, eventually everyone will pay the piper. Maybe a focus on individual health should be the priority, and not kick the can medicine.
Good. I'm glad therapeutics aren't being ignored by the medical community. I was more speaking from a policy and media perspective. Outside of this forum, I don't ever really see much about it, much like natural immunity, it seems to be largely ignored when discussing the path forward out of lockdowns and NPIs. Obviously the preferred route is to not get Covid in the first place, and I, like everyone else has gone about that the best I am able. I just don't see boosters for the already vaccinated as being the end game. There has to be a combination of protecting those that want to be protected, acknowledging that there is some protection from prior infection, and having treatment options for those that become infected, whether they are vaccinated or not. The laser focus on boosters currently seems to be myopic in my opinion.Mormad said:wilmwolf80 said:
With Britain approving the treatment pill, it made me wonder, does anyone know what they are doing regarding boosters? It seems that we here in the US pretty much ignore what the rest of the world is doing for the most part when it comes to covid, just wondering what their stance on boosters is. It feels to me, not saying that it is really the case, but it feels kinda like the US going in hard on boosters has pushed the idea of therapeutics to the back burner, just wondering aloud if that's the case.
I'm not sure the presence of therapeutics should change the need for prevention? Using HIV as an example: there are great therapeutics now that can lower viral load to undetectable numbers and prevent AIDS. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't try to take measures to avoid getting HIV altogether.
From a purely medical perspective, therapeutics are NOT being ignored or pushed aside. They're being used every single day. There are protocols for both outpatient and inpatient management of covid patients, with a reasonably broad set of options to be used at the discretion of the provider.
I'm glad IF i get covid there will be options for therapeutics, but my goal will always be to prevent infection first. I don't know what less predictable ways infection will affect my personal life, but I'm not happy about the very predictable ways infection will affect me. So i prefer prevention for me and my loved ones. My best buddy prefers infection, and that's cool. Just not what i choose.
PackPA2015 said:We can't do both? Most medical providers, if they are worth their salt, preach diet, exercise, sleep, etc. to all of their patients. We also do not want them to die of COVID while we are improving their diabetes or high blood pressure.packgrad said:Mormad said:packgrad said:
UK approach to boosters.
"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
- everyone over 50
- people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
- people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
- frontline health and social care workers"
Unfortunately, most of the US falls into one of the 4 categories it seems.
42.5% over the age of 20 are obese
15% have lung dz
34 million have diabetes
Add in renal dz, htn, and myriad immunocompromised
A third of the population is over 50
Who knows how many live with folks falling into one of categories?
Health care facilities are major employers everywhere, and those folks have families... There are 22 million health care workers with families.
So even with cross over, i suspect most of our adult population should consider a booster based on uk recs. That's kind of sobering to me.
Sure. There's a lot of things they should consider. Diet, exercise, sleep, etc. Government only wants to mandate an ineffective (at preventing the spread) vaccine.
Like wayland said, eventually everyone will pay the piper. Maybe a focus on individual health should be the priority, and not kick the can medicine.
This doesn't mean I agree with government mandating the vaccine, but just saying work on your blood sugars and blood pressure, don't worry about the booster that will likely keep you from dying from COVID in the meantime does not seem like a real good plan to me. Let's pay the piper with a mild case if anything especially when we are still likely this winter going to have another, albeit smaller, wave.
statefan91 said:
Can you "Explain Like I'm 5" the emergence of things like Flu and how it relates to the recession / endemic nature of COVID? I have seen you mention it but truly don't understand what it means.
Asking for clarification - keeping people away from what? medical offices? getting out in public?packgrad said:PackPA2015 said:We can't do both? Most medical providers, if they are worth their salt, preach diet, exercise, sleep, etc. to all of their patients. We also do not want them to die of COVID while we are improving their diabetes or high blood pressure.packgrad said:
Sure. There's a lot of things they should consider. Diet, exercise, sleep, etc. Government only wants to mandate an ineffective (at preventing the spread) vaccine.
Like wayland said, eventually everyone will pay the piper. Maybe a focus on individual health should be the priority, and not kick the can medicine.
This doesn't mean I agree with government mandating the vaccine, but just saying work on your blood sugars and blood pressure, don't worry about the booster that will likely keep you from dying from COVID in the meantime does not seem like a real good plan to me. Let's pay the piper with a mild case if anything especially when we are still likely this winter going to have another, albeit smaller, wave.
Where did I say you can't do both? I don't see why the double vaccine is going to not allow me to have a mild case. I don't need a booster. I think your sensationalism with "the booster that will likely keep you from dying" is exactly what keeps people away though. We've already heard that fear mongering, and now it's already teed up again.
Wayland said:So you can punt your first infection another 3 months (assuming no prior infection)?Mormad said:packgrad said:
UK approach to boosters.
"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
- everyone over 50
- people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
- people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
- frontline health and social care workers"
Unfortunately, most of the US falls into one of the 4 categories it seems.
42.5% over the age of 20 are obese
15% have lung dz
34 million have diabetes
Add in renal dz, htn, and myriad immunocompromised
A third of the population is over 50
Who knows how many live with folks falling into one of categories?
Health care facilities are major employers everywhere, and those folks have families... There are 22 million health care workers with families.
So even with cross over, i suspect most of our adult population should consider a booster based on uk recs. That's kind of sobering to me.
The current vaccines don't work for elimination... as soon as the next wave of boosters' effects wane, COVID will pop back up and get you... until the overall population seroprevalence from actual infection hits whatever the magic number is (see India).
I am not saying to NOT get it. Makes sense for those most at risk to keep kicking the can but eventually we all will likely have to pay the piper.
PackPA2015 said:Asking for clarification - keeping people away from what? medical offices? getting out in public?packgrad said:PackPA2015 said:We can't do both? Most medical providers, if they are worth their salt, preach diet, exercise, sleep, etc. to all of their patients. We also do not want them to die of COVID while we are improving their diabetes or high blood pressure.packgrad said:
Sure. There's a lot of things they should consider. Diet, exercise, sleep, etc. Government only wants to mandate an ineffective (at preventing the spread) vaccine.
Like wayland said, eventually everyone will pay the piper. Maybe a focus on individual health should be the priority, and not kick the can medicine.
This doesn't mean I agree with government mandating the vaccine, but just saying work on your blood sugars and blood pressure, don't worry about the booster that will likely keep you from dying from COVID in the meantime does not seem like a real good plan to me. Let's pay the piper with a mild case if anything especially when we are still likely this winter going to have another, albeit smaller, wave.
Where did I say you can't do both? I don't see why the double vaccine is going to not allow me to have a mild case. I don't need a booster. I think your sensationalism with "the booster that will likely keep you from dying" is exactly what keeps people away though. We've already heard that fear mongering, and now it's already teed up again.
I do not think it is fear mongering by providers to say that the boosters lower your risk of death from COVID-19 in those groups with specific risk factors. As shared above, it is not a small group in the U.S. I think the boosters will likely not be needed for much longer (thinking spring of 2022) due to endemicity based on vaccination and natural immunity rates, but we still have a winter wave to worry about. I am also not promoting mass lockdowns, required masking, etc. with this, but I do think boosters in the right populations is the correct thing to do at this time. That thought may and likely will change after this winter wave.
Just so that I'm clear here, does "offered to" mean that it is also "mandated"?packgrad said:
UK approach to boosters.
"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
- everyone over 50
- people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
- people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
- frontline health and social care workers"
And I am convinced that vaccines offer no long term infection protection. And natural immunity is likely much more robust.Mormad said:Wayland said:So you can punt your first infection another 3 months (assuming no prior infection)?Mormad said:packgrad said:
UK approach to boosters.
"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
- everyone over 50
- people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
- people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
- frontline health and social care workers"
Unfortunately, most of the US falls into one of the 4 categories it seems.
42.5% over the age of 20 are obese
15% have lung dz
34 million have diabetes
Add in renal dz, htn, and myriad immunocompromised
A third of the population is over 50
Who knows how many live with folks falling into one of categories?
Health care facilities are major employers everywhere, and those folks have families... There are 22 million health care workers with families.
So even with cross over, i suspect most of our adult population should consider a booster based on uk recs. That's kind of sobering to me.
The current vaccines don't work for elimination... as soon as the next wave of boosters' effects wane, COVID will pop back up and get you... until the overall population seroprevalence from actual infection hits whatever the magic number is (see India).
I am not saying to NOT get it. Makes sense for those most at risk to keep kicking the can but eventually we all will likely have to pay the piper.
You telling storm he's going to get it at some point?
I'm kidding. I tend to agree. At some point it's gonna hit home.
I'm not convinced natural infection offers better long term immunity than vaccines. Research is all over the place with that, and is too dependent on too many variables. In time that'll become more clear i hope. But for the at risk population in the 4 categories, boosters may provide additional protection for a period of time yet to be defined to prevent what could be for some in the at risk group a really devastating infection, right? And that's what we want, is for there to be viable preventative and therapeutic measures for such a population of people that they have the freedom to choose based on their own individual assessment of risk? And the boosters appear to offer that? And don't confuse this with the need for mandates. But if the immunity of the vaccines that appear to be protective wanes over time, aren't we glad there's an alternative to boost that immunity for those we feel are most in need? Instead of just saying fck it? In my world, I'm glad they exist. It's up to me whether or not I'm ready to get it (for now).
LOL. How do you (or even I for that matter) know that I've not already had it but was asymptomatic?Mormad said:Wayland said:
So you can punt your first infection another 3 months (assuming no prior infection)?
The current vaccines don't work for elimination... as soon as the next wave of boosters' effects wane, COVID will pop back up and get you... until the overall population seroprevalence from actual infection hits whatever the magic number is (see India).
I am not saying to NOT get it. Makes sense for those most at risk to keep kicking the can but eventually we all will likely have to pay the piper.
You telling storm he's going to get it at some point?
TheStorm said:LOL. How do you (or even I for that matter) know that I've not already had it but was asymptomatic?Mormad said:Wayland said:
So you can punt your first infection another 3 months (assuming no prior infection)?
The current vaccines don't work for elimination... as soon as the next wave of boosters' effects wane, COVID will pop back up and get you... until the overall population seroprevalence from actual infection hits whatever the magic number is (see India).
I am not saying to NOT get it. Makes sense for those most at risk to keep kicking the can but eventually we all will likely have to pay the piper.
You telling storm he's going to get it at some point?
Ok. I believe that an individual that has received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe that a booster in specific populations will lower their risk of death from COVID-19. I believe that a person that has not received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe that a person that has not received a Covid-19 vaccination will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe the numbers support my beliefs.PackPA2015 said:
We will just have to agree to disagree brother.
I do believe that an individual that has received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I do believe that a booster in specific populations will lower their risk of death from COVID-19. Again, not pushing for any mandates, requirements, etc.
packgrad said:Ok. I believe that an individual that has received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe that a booster in specific populations will lower their risk of death from COVID-19. I believe that a person that has not received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe that a person that has not received a Covid-19 vaccination will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe the numbers support my beliefs.PackPA2015 said:
We will just have to agree to disagree brother.
I do believe that an individual that has received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I do believe that a booster in specific populations will lower their risk of death from COVID-19. Again, not pushing for any mandates, requirements, etc.
I also believe that your statement " just saying work on your blood sugars and blood pressure, don't worry about the booster that will likely keep you from dying from COVID in the meantime does not seem like a real good plan to me." is fear mongering.
Agree to disagree.
Mormad said:packgrad said:Ok. I believe that an individual that has received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe that a booster in specific populations will lower their risk of death from COVID-19. I believe that a person that has not received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe that a person that has not received a Covid-19 vaccination will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe the numbers support my beliefs.PackPA2015 said:
We will just have to agree to disagree brother.
I do believe that an individual that has received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I do believe that a booster in specific populations will lower their risk of death from COVID-19. Again, not pushing for any mandates, requirements, etc.
I also believe that your statement " just saying work on your blood sugars and blood pressure, don't worry about the booster that will likely keep you from dying from COVID in the meantime does not seem like a real good plan to me." is fear mongering.
Agree to disagree.
Only 10-15% of smokers die of lung cancer. So while their risk of dying from lung cancer is much higher than the general population, they're not "likely" to die from lung cancer (though they're likely to die of other smoking related issues i guess). So, if we as providers, advise our patients they should avoid smoking because it would likely keep them from dying of lung cancer, it's "fear mongering?" Saying, "eat right, exercise, and get sleep because it reduces your chance of dying from heart disease" is fear mongering? Govt pushing diet and exercise to reduce the risk of covid is all cool, but mention the fact that boosters might do the same and it's fear mongering? I'm not sure I get that.
I'll add because i know tensions run high here: I'm not really challenging you here even tho i disagree. I'm simply trying to understand the thought process because PA and I have to give similar advice to patients who actually want our opinions, and so i need to hear these views. As PA alluded to, messaging has to be better.
I don't think anyone here said that. I said WITH the booster, their risk of dying from COVID-19 is less. That would be fear mongering if someone had said the above bolded statement, but no one did.packgrad said:Mormad said:packgrad said:Ok. I believe that an individual that has received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe that a booster in specific populations will lower their risk of death from COVID-19. I believe that a person that has not received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe that a person that has not received a Covid-19 vaccination will likely not die from COVID-19. I believe the numbers support my beliefs.PackPA2015 said:
We will just have to agree to disagree brother.
I do believe that an individual that has received a booster will likely not die from COVID-19. I do believe that a booster in specific populations will lower their risk of death from COVID-19. Again, not pushing for any mandates, requirements, etc.
I also believe that your statement " just saying work on your blood sugars and blood pressure, don't worry about the booster that will likely keep you from dying from COVID in the meantime does not seem like a real good plan to me." is fear mongering.
Agree to disagree.
Only 10-15% of smokers die of lung cancer. So while their risk of dying from lung cancer is much higher than the general population, they're not "likely" to die from lung cancer (though they're likely to die of other smoking related issues i guess). So, if we as providers, advise our patients they should avoid smoking because it would likely keep them from dying of lung cancer, it's "fear mongering?" Saying, "eat right, exercise, and get sleep because it reduces your chance of dying from heart disease" is fear mongering? Govt pushing diet and exercise to reduce the risk of covid is all cool, but mention the fact that boosters might do the same and it's fear mongering? I'm not sure I get that.
I'll add because i know tensions run high here: I'm not really challenging you here even tho i disagree. I'm simply trying to understand the thought process because PA and I have to give similar advice to patients who actually want our opinions, and so i need to hear these views. As PA alluded to, messaging has to be better.
I quite frankly don't see how you can argue it isn't fear mongering to say without the booster they will likely die. I don't think your smoking or AIDS comparisons are good ones so won't comment on that. I also think it's hilarious the Liberty the providers take with what I've supposedly said. So now you guys are saying that I'm saying the government pushing boosters is fear mongering too? Lol. I guess we're just making up things now?
Well, I mean, regardless of any of this, we should be fully open. I have been calling for that since the spring of 2020 with some limited interventions in certain super high risk settings (LTC, etc.)Mormad said:
Along the same lines, what if the government mandates the new oral anti-virals as a prophylactic against covid? Or ivermectin for that matter? Will these pills draw the same ire as vaccines and boosters then? Will they be called poisons? After cheering them and calling them game changers and calling for full opening, will we later say they were over promised and be angry at them if they underperform and their effectiveness wanes or doesn't reach 90%? Because, guess what, that's likely the case once given to 30 million instead of 3000. Or will see look back and say, "well, that was predictable " while recognizing the good the pills did do for us? I think these are fair questions, and i guess like all things, there will be those who fall in both sides. Leads to good discussion though.
Quote:
July 2021: BIDEN: "You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations."
Wayland said:So you can punt your first infection another 3 months (assuming no prior infection)?Mormad said:packgrad said:
UK approach to boosters.
"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
- everyone over 50
- people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
- people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
- frontline health and social care workers"
Unfortunately, most of the US falls into one of the 4 categories it seems.
42.5% over the age of 20 are obese
15% have lung dz
34 million have diabetes
Add in renal dz, htn, and myriad immunocompromised
A third of the population is over 50
Who knows how many live with folks falling into one of categories?
Health care facilities are major employers everywhere, and those folks have families... There are 22 million health care workers with families.
So even with cross over, i suspect most of our adult population should consider a booster based on uk recs. That's kind of sobering to me.
The current vaccines don't work for elimination... as soon as the next wave of boosters' effects wane, COVID will pop back up and get you... until the overall population seroprevalence from actual infection hits whatever the magic number is (see India).
I am not saying to NOT get it. Makes sense for those most at risk to keep kicking the can but eventually we all will likely have to pay the piper.
I mean, I am not sure any assumption is safe. You ask a lot of good questions.Civilized said:Wayland said:So you can punt your first infection another 3 months (assuming no prior infection)?Mormad said:packgrad said:
UK approach to boosters.
"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
- everyone over 50
- people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
- people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
- frontline health and social care workers"
Unfortunately, most of the US falls into one of the 4 categories it seems.
42.5% over the age of 20 are obese
15% have lung dz
34 million have diabetes
Add in renal dz, htn, and myriad immunocompromised
A third of the population is over 50
Who knows how many live with folks falling into one of categories?
Health care facilities are major employers everywhere, and those folks have families... There are 22 million health care workers with families.
So even with cross over, i suspect most of our adult population should consider a booster based on uk recs. That's kind of sobering to me.
The current vaccines don't work for elimination... as soon as the next wave of boosters' effects wane, COVID will pop back up and get you... until the overall population seroprevalence from actual infection hits whatever the magic number is (see India).
I am not saying to NOT get it. Makes sense for those most at risk to keep kicking the can but eventually we all will likely have to pay the piper.
This assumes the virus remains as virulent over time though right? Is that a safe assumption?
Does this also assume that COVID doesn't become more seasonal or predictable as the world reopens and activity levels normalize worldwide.
Does COVID become more seasonal rather than kinda randomly episodic? Will we simply all get a yearly COVID booster in the fall if we want one, understanding that our immunity will wane by spring but also that the risk of catching COVID wanes in the spring too?
How does the virus transmissibility change as total seroprevalence from actual infection + vaccination continues rising worldwide and community spread falls? Does that change virus outbreak behavior as the global community case rate declines?
Kicking the can may not help, but it leaves open the door for course-altering changes in virus behavior that could reduce long-term risk, while also reducing risk in the meantime.
Wayland said:I mean, I am not sure any assumption is safe. You ask a lot of good questions.Civilized said:Wayland said:So you can punt your first infection another 3 months (assuming no prior infection)?Mormad said:packgrad said:
UK approach to boosters.
"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
- everyone over 50
- people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
- people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
- frontline health and social care workers"
Unfortunately, most of the US falls into one of the 4 categories it seems.
42.5% over the age of 20 are obese
15% have lung dz
34 million have diabetes
Add in renal dz, htn, and myriad immunocompromised
A third of the population is over 50
Who knows how many live with folks falling into one of categories?
Health care facilities are major employers everywhere, and those folks have families... There are 22 million health care workers with families.
So even with cross over, i suspect most of our adult population should consider a booster based on uk recs. That's kind of sobering to me.
The current vaccines don't work for elimination... as soon as the next wave of boosters' effects wane, COVID will pop back up and get you... until the overall population seroprevalence from actual infection hits whatever the magic number is (see India).
I am not saying to NOT get it. Makes sense for those most at risk to keep kicking the can but eventually we all will likely have to pay the piper.
This assumes the virus remains as virulent over time though right? Is that a safe assumption?
Does this also assume that COVID doesn't become more seasonal or predictable as the world reopens and activity levels normalize worldwide.
Does COVID become more seasonal rather than kinda randomly episodic? Will we simply all get a yearly COVID booster in the fall if we want one, understanding that our immunity will wane by spring but also that the risk of catching COVID wanes in the spring too?
How does the virus transmissibility change as total seroprevalence from actual infection + vaccination continues rising worldwide and community spread falls? Does that change virus outbreak behavior as the global community case rate declines?
Kicking the can may not help, but it leaves open the door for course-altering changes in virus behavior that could reduce long-term risk, while also reducing risk in the meantime.
But with those questions, if someone wants to choose to take a booster, then more power to them.
But they are owed the unabashed truth about what we know and don't know.
Wayland said:Civilized said:Wayland said:So you can punt your first infection another 3 months (assuming no prior infection)?Mormad said:packgrad said:
UK approach to boosters.
"Who will get a Covid-19 booster vaccine?
Booster vaccines will be offered to those most at risk from Covid-19, including:
- everyone over 50
- people 16 and over who have a health condition that puts them at high risk from Covid-19
- people 16 and over who are a main carer for someone at high risk from Covid-19 or who live with someone who is more likely to get infections
- frontline health and social care workers"
Unfortunately, most of the US falls into one of the 4 categories it seems.
42.5% over the age of 20 are obese
15% have lung dz
34 million have diabetes
Add in renal dz, htn, and myriad immunocompromised
A third of the population is over 50
Who knows how many live with folks falling into one of categories?
Health care facilities are major employers everywhere, and those folks have families... There are 22 million health care workers with families.
So even with cross over, i suspect most of our adult population should consider a booster based on uk recs. That's kind of sobering to me.
The current vaccines don't work for elimination... as soon as the next wave of boosters' effects wane, COVID will pop back up and get you... until the overall population seroprevalence from actual infection hits whatever the magic number is (see India).
I am not saying to NOT get it. Makes sense for those most at risk to keep kicking the can but eventually we all will likely have to pay the piper.
This assumes the virus remains as virulent over time though right? Is that a safe assumption?
Does this also assume that COVID doesn't become more seasonal or predictable as the world reopens and activity levels normalize worldwide.
Does COVID become more seasonal rather than kinda randomly episodic? Will we simply all get a yearly COVID booster in the fall if we want one, understanding that our immunity will wane by spring but also that the risk of catching COVID wanes in the spring too?
How does the virus transmissibility change as total seroprevalence from actual infection + vaccination continues rising worldwide and community spread falls? Does that change virus outbreak behavior as the global community case rate declines?
Kicking the can may not help, but it leaves open the door for course-altering changes in virus behavior that could reduce long-term risk, while also reducing risk in the meantime.
But they are owed the unabashed truth about what we know and don't know.
Very good points. As to the CDC director, I want to see the study that clearly demonstrates that the masks most people are wearing are nearly as effective as vaccination in preventing Covid infection. She also said, "Masks also help protect from other illnesses like common cold and flu." So, I think I see where this is heading. We will be asked to mask up year around, so we stay healthy and do not infect others. Bottom line, I am vaccinated and for this reason, I rarely wear a mask.Wayland said:Well, I mean, regardless of any of this, we should be fully open. I have been calling for that since the spring of 2020 with some limited interventions in certain super high risk settings (LTC, etc.)Mormad said:
Along the same lines, what if the government mandates the new oral anti-virals as a prophylactic against covid? Or ivermectin for that matter? Will these pills draw the same ire as vaccines and boosters then? Will they be called poisons? After cheering them and calling them game changers and calling for full opening, will we later say they were over promised and be angry at them if they underperform and their effectiveness wanes or doesn't reach 90%? Because, guess what, that's likely the case once given to 30 million instead of 3000. Or will see look back and say, "well, that was predictable " while recognizing the good the pills did do for us? I think these are fair questions, and i guess like all things, there will be those who fall in both sides. Leads to good discussion though.
The government shouldn't mandate the pills. Patients have the right to refuse regardless of their effectiveness. Will that be the best choice? I don't know, maybe we need to take some time to really compile the data so make a compelling argument so those risks can be weighed. Acknowledge the unknown CLEARLY as well as the known. I am old enough to remember when COVID vaccines purportedly prevented infection and transmission (don't make me dig up Walensky, Biden, and Fauci videos).Quote:
July 2021: BIDEN: "You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations."
Pill or no pill. Vaccine or no vaccine. We shouldn't have closed society to the effect that we did.
The damage we have done to a generation of children by closing schools for over a year and interrupting society will likely be immeasurable. The fact that we are still disrupting schools and sending healthy children home for being in the wrong place at the wrong time is awful.
The fact that we have created a whole new class of safetiests and hypochondriacs by frankly stoking panic and lying and exaggerating the effectiveness of various measures is going to have massive consequences going further. Our own political muppet CDC director put out a video this morning claiming masks are up to 80% effective. Please.
Now the costs of vaccines may be ultimately low (I certainly can't pretend to imagine the costs of mandates), but simply the fact that we continue to fail to try and ascertain the totality of the costs of the measures we continue to enact is the definition of short sighted insanity.
And this is not to minimize the great cost that we have paid to the disease itself but I remain unconvinced that the damage done by policies won't inevitably exceed that cost.... and that is frightening.
We need a conversation about an off-ramp for masks that is tied to #covid19 #vaccines. If every child in a class or on a sports team is vaccinated, it would be reasonable to no longer require masks. That’s also a powerful incentive to vaccination. https://t.co/3qu3HZvQLh pic.twitter.com/IXAKPELjt1
— Leana Wen, M.D. (@DrLeanaWen) November 5, 2021
If he doesn't drop acid, he has at least as much credibility as Kary Mullis.caryking said:Be careful quoting Malone. According to some, he's a quack!!!Werewolf said:
VANDEN BOSSCHE & MALONE: COVID-19 GIANTS UNITE (*****ute.com)
Eleven states sued the Biden administration to try to stop a Covid-19 vaccine mandate for some companies, alleging it is unconstitutional https://t.co/CIjPRCGxWe
— The Wall Street Journal (@WSJ) November 5, 2021
Germany just reported its highest single day case total of the pandemic with mask mandates, vaccine passports and over 83% of everyone over 18 at least partially vaccinated, so get ready for mask mandates and vaccine passport recommendations from The Experts™ pic.twitter.com/fMQwpXGriX
— IM (@ianmSC) November 5, 2021
Unfortunately for many, the truth will become more evident over the course of the winter here in the States. The data is already showing up in a number of highly vaccinated countries and that hole in the bottom of their boats is gonna become evident. If you've not been vaccinated, absolutely do not allow yourself to be bullied into it. And God forbid do not allow anyone to pressure you into vaccinating your children. Use your common sense, why the pressure on a vaccine for a virus that 9995 out of 10000 survive and children essentially have zero danger. Wh the push to stop the use of Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine? NIH actually has Ivermectin on its website as the #2 option for treatment but your MSM tells u its horse medicine and dangerous to humans. The inventor won a Nobel prize for the development of Ivermectin I believe is correct. Both drugs used all over the world safely. Its reasonable to ask "what the hell is going on and why!"packgrad said:
Sports media going in on Aaron Rodgers. Unvaccinated and contracted the virus. Felt bad for a day. Feels better today. Healthy and now has the antibodies. But he did not get the vaccine, so he must be shunned. It is a cult.
Has one NFL media member expressed gratitude that Aaron Rodgers is healthy and appears to be fine after dealing with Covid 19??? I guess that's not as much fun as assassinating his character!!
— Danny Kanell (@dannykanell) November 5, 2021
