Civilized said:

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I think you're getting bad information or aren't processing through information correctly.

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The Left/Establishment does not have some "moral high ground" here, with "superior information". And we get it, "misinformation" is the new buzzword that the Leftist Establishment is using to attempt to censor and combat those who have made a sound and fact-based decision not to take these injections, and who are telling the truth about the covid scam. The true purveyors of misinformation here are governments, the far Left Establishment media, and Big Pharma.

bgr3 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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bgr3 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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bgr3 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Some of that absolutely may be hype, scare tactics, sensationalistic news, etc....but I think these school boards probably (rightly or wrongly) feel an extra layer of responsibility about "all the kids and staff" than you or I may for our individual kids.

So another layer of uncertainty....mixed messaging on the impact on young kids, but certainly an unvaccinated group. No school board wants to be responsible for some major news event...so, wham.

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Yup. Spineless, liability lawyer "leadership", cowering to the loudest voices of the sensationalist mob. Who cares if it actually helps kids safety and development as long as it keeps us from having a hit piece written?

If you thought we were going to go into the school year without another round of extortion from teachers' unions I feel sorry for you.

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Do you attribute teacher's unions pressure is the reason for ARK Governor Hutchison's change in view on this? Or that he was looking at real data from his medical advisors in the state where they've seen a huge uptick?

I assume your scenario plays a role. But I also think, again, its a lot easier to go risk-averse on a decision on behalf of thousands of kids than it is for yourself.

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It is easy to go risk-averse if you just ignore every risk in the world other than those posed by COVID. If you ignore the risk of learning loss it's easy to go risk averse. If you ignore the risks of increasing isolation/depression/suicide among the youth it's easy to go risk averse. If you ignore the risks of increasing the sedentary lifestyles of youth because their sports and gyms are closed its easy to go risk averse. If you ignore the higher risk children have of dying in a car wreck on the way to school then of getting COVID and dying at school its easy to go risk averse.

But hey, at least when teenagers kill themselves at home the school administrators aren't going to get blamed for it. You are right about the big thing though, that kind of shortsighted policy making is a lot easier. And it is NOT about the children.

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So your thoughts on why ARK is trying to undo its decision on the mask mandate to allow schools to mask?

All those other factors you reference are VERY real, for sure. Sports and gyms are open now, though, aren't they? I've seen kids out playing on fields all summer....though I guess your point is if they get reclosed.
I'd like to think most of the decision makers are applying reasonable logic to include considerations for the things you reference. But human behavior is ALWAYS going to favor the current flavor-of-the-day, and have a bigger influence on decision-making than the long-term impacts. Its almost always that way

i mean....there are medical boards saying "for unvaccinated kids the best way to avoid Covid is to wear a mask and social distance since they can't be vaccinated", but then parents freaking out because a school board -- applying that medical guidance -- says schools have to wear a mask.

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I have no thoughts on what is going on in Arkansas because I don't live in Arkansas and know very little about it. I don't base how I look at issues based upon what politicians do, because what they do is based upon covering their own ass, setting themselves up for reelection if they are eligible and absolutely nothing else.

"I'd like to think most of the decision makers are applying reasonable logic to include considerations for the things you reference." I have absolutely zero confidence that is the case. My evidence? The last year and a half in which we have pretended that COVID is the only risk in the world that exists.

Look, I am not per se for or against any of the policies being enacted. What I am against, and have zero patience for at this point is people proporting to do risk assessment when they are instead engaging in risk avoidance and pretending that COVID is the only risk that exists. And if you attempt to introduce other, very real risks, you are attacked for "not caring" about COVID AND WANTING PEOPLE TO DIE!!!. It was a BS tactic to shut down discussion a year ago, and it is even moreso now. You seem nuanced in this discussion which I appreciate but when you attribute good faith to people using those tactics you are aiding, whittingly or not, in the dumbing down of policy discussion.

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So I too base my most knowledge on local --- I live in a county which is VERY dominated by GOP. It was the first local board to announce maskless schools.....but then stood by in full agreement 2 weeks in when Union Academy, a year-round school, had a covid outbreak and had 100 kids have to be quarantined after 14 or so got sick.

We can all debate how sick those kids were, or if the 100 were really "AT RISK", but I struggle to fault a board with changing strategies when that happens. I can assure you it was not due to Cooper or to a union.

Same with ARK...I don't "know" either...but when a sitting governor has a bunch of cases blow up, hospitals being overwhelmed AND a higher % of kids being infected than a year ago.....that gives them REAL reasons to consider altering approach.

So who do you think school boards should rely to make these decisions on behalf of thousands of kids?

ETA: To be clear....schools should be open. I'd hope even masking could be reduced once Delta burns out -- as that is projected to be much quicker than the first round?
I agree with the risks of development and mental health issues you referenced otherwise.....those are real and scary, for sure.

Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Have you seen the data out of Israel? Two things as I understand it:

• 90% + are vaccinated
• Same % are getting COVID
• Now they are saying that vaccines have about a 6 month life

So, the vaccines are more like prophylactic than a real vaccine... ok, I know that last statement is out there; however, what's the real difference at this point...

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This is the exact same circumstance that we discussed two weeks ago in the UK.

If 50% of new cases are in the vaxxed, and 50% in the unvaxxed, but 90% are vaccinated it means vaccines are working extremely well.

Think of it this way, if you take a sample of 100 adults in Israel, 10 would be unvaxxed and 90 would be vaxxed. Of the 10 unvaxxed, 3 may pop positive. Of the 90 vaxxed, 3 would pop positive. 10 unvaxxed Israelis are generating the same number of positives as 90 vaxxed Israelis. That's great real-world effectiveness at preventing infection.

And that doesn't even speak to the effectiveness of vaccines at preventing serious or fatal COVID.

Also nobody is saying the vaccines have a 6 month "life." It's being speculated that vaccine protection against infection starts to wane after 6 months, however protection against serious or fatal COVID seems to continue to be robust.

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You keep spelling out that math, and some people keep ignoring it.

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I must be bad at math, let me try this...

100 adults in Israel, 90 are vaxxed, 10 are unvaxxed. Of the 100 adults in Israel, 10 go into the hospital. Of the ten, 9 are vaxxed, 1 is not. So, if you multiply that out, the number doesn't change. The vaxxed are going in at a higher rate.

Please tell me where my math is wrong... and according to the real world Israeli doctor, he contends that the shelf life of the vaccine is 6 months.

I see what may have caused the issue. I said "same percent getting COVID". I should have said the same percent is going into the hospital with COVID.

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Respectfully Cary, there's not a location in the world that is reporting similar rates of hospitalization for vaxxed and unvaxxed individuals. All available data indicates vaccination confers very serious protection against hospitalization and death no matter how you slice it.

It's being widely reported that unvaxxed and vaxxed INFECTIONS are occurring in similar ABSOLUTE numbers in most locations. That's a critical distinction that people either can't or won't process.

In other words, in the UK and Israel and many other countries, you are seeing roughly the same QUANTITY of vaxxed and unvaxxed people popping positive, not the same PROPORTION of vaxxed/unvaxxed positives.

In other words, for a given sample group of people you will have roughly the same number of vaxxed and unvaxxed positives.

What's key though is that in most first world countries we've got many more vaccinated people than unvaccinated people. And in most every case for these numbers are being reported, unvaxxed includes only people that have not had any shots and vaccinated includes people that have had one or two shots.

The numbers look even better for vaccination efficacy if you focus on hospitalizations and deaths for people that have been vaccinated, rather than just cases. Cases is much less meaningful barometer than hospitalizations and deaths because so many vaxxed positives are asymptomatic or only very mildly symptomatic.

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Civ caught me... Ive been lying the whole time. whatever...

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I think you're getting bad information or aren't processing through information correctly.

I never said you were lying.

There's a clear difference.

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Civ, that was my hyperbole. Funny how I'm getting bad information or I have a processing problem. I will say this, at this point in time, I don't trust damn near anything I'm hearing about the virus, including the crap I post!!!

GuerrillaPack said:

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Civilized said:

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I think you're getting bad information or aren't processing through information correctly.

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The Left/Establishment does not have some "moral high ground" here, with "superior information". And we get it, "misinformation" is the new buzzword that the Leftist Establishment is using to attempt to censor and combat those who have made a sound and fact-based decision not to take these injections, and who are telling the truth about the covid scam. The true purveyors of misinformation here are governments, the far Left Establishment media, and Big Pharma.

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So you say this -- but you were one of the folks arguing against Civ's math discussion in Israel earlier. So, what about the #s in Israel do you disagree with proving the vaccine has worked?

Or what about the #s Davie shows here all the time do you think are misleading? Is Davie misinforming us all with basic numbers?

Packchem91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Civilized said:

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I think you're getting bad information or aren't processing through information correctly.

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The Left/Establishment does not have some "moral high ground" here, with "superior information". And we get it, "misinformation" is the new buzzword that the Leftist Establishment is using to attempt to censor and combat those who have made a sound and fact-based decision not to take these injections, and who are telling the truth about the covid scam. The true purveyors of misinformation here are governments, the far Left Establishment media, and Big Pharma.

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So you say this -- but you were one of the folks arguing against Civ's math discussion in Israel earlier. So, what about the #s in Israel do you disagree with proving the vaccine has worked?

Or what about the #s Davie shows here all the time do you think are misleading? Is Davie misinforming us all with basic numbers?

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Virtually all of the "data" coming from governments (& via the communist Establishment media) is doctored, cooked, and manipulated to push their agenda. It's lies. We've gone over this a thousand times. For starters, you create a VASTLY inflated number of "covid cases" and "covid deaths" via the completely bogus PCR and other testing, and counting "presumed" cases of "covid" with no testing at all and just based on a few symptoms (cough, fever), which are the same as the regular flu.

The vaccine is not proven to "work". Something closer to real data has slipped out showing the exact opposite -- such as the UK recently where their own data showed that 56% of covid deaths from the delta variant are from vaccinated people. And in the UK only around 55% of the total population is fully jabbed.

Packchem91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Packchem91 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Civilized said:

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I think you're getting bad information or aren't processing through information correctly.

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The Left/Establishment does not have some "moral high ground" here, with "superior information". And we get it, "misinformation" is the new buzzword that the Leftist Establishment is using to attempt to censor and combat those who have made a sound and fact-based decision not to take these injections, and who are telling the truth about the covid scam. The true purveyors of misinformation here are governments, the far Left Establishment media, and Big Pharma.

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So you say this -- but you were one of the folks arguing against Civ's math discussion in Israel earlier. So, what about the #s in Israel do you disagree with proving the vaccine has worked?

Or what about the #s Davie shows here all the time do you think are misleading? Is Davie misinforming us all with basic numbers?

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Virtually all of the "data" coming from governments (& via the communist Establishment media) is doctored, cooked, and manipulated to push their agenda. It's lies. We've gone over this a thousand times. For starters, you create a VASTLY inflated number of "covid cases" and "covid deaths" via the completely bogus PCR and other testing, and counting "presumed" cases of "covid" with no testing at all and just based on a few symptoms (cough, fever), which are the same as the regular flu.

The vaccine is not proven to "work". Something closer to real data has slipped out showing the exact opposite -- such as the UK recently where their own data showed that 56% of covid deaths from the delta variant are from vaccinated people. And in the UK only around 55% of the total population is fully jabbed.

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So you don't trust public health agency's data for vaccines / deaths...but you believe a FB-generated post about deaths in England, which has had multiple articles from BBC & Reuters debunking it for misleading information?
I get distrust, but who is the reliable source for your UK doubts?

Fact Check-England's COVID-19 death statistics do not suggest vaccines aren't working | Reuters
Covid: Misleading stat claims more vaccinated people die - BBC News

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I don't even use ZuckerbergCIABook. I saw and posted in this thread the actual TV newscast which cited data from England's NHS, which showed that 56% of deaths from the covid variant in the UK were people who were fully vaccinated. The articles you cited don't "debunk" anything. It's just more communist Lamestream media lies and propaganda. Your "debunking" articles admit that the statistics which are being cited by anti-vaccine advocates are accurate, but falsely alleges without any valid argument that we are "misinterpreting" or "misrepresenting" the data.

caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Have you seen the data out of Israel? Two things as I understand it:

• 90% + are vaccinated
• Same % are getting COVID
• Now they are saying that vaccines have about a 6 month life

So, the vaccines are more like prophylactic than a real vaccine... ok, I know that last statement is out there; however, what's the real difference at this point...

---

This is the exact same circumstance that we discussed two weeks ago in the UK.

If 50% of new cases are in the vaxxed, and 50% in the unvaxxed, but 90% are vaccinated it means vaccines are working extremely well.

Think of it this way, if you take a sample of 100 adults in Israel, 10 would be unvaxxed and 90 would be vaxxed. Of the 10 unvaxxed, 3 may pop positive. Of the 90 vaxxed, 3 would pop positive. 10 unvaxxed Israelis are generating the same number of positives as 90 vaxxed Israelis. That's great real-world effectiveness at preventing infection.

And that doesn't even speak to the effectiveness of vaccines at preventing serious or fatal COVID.

Also nobody is saying the vaccines have a 6 month "life." It's being speculated that vaccine protection against infection starts to wane after 6 months, however protection against serious or fatal COVID seems to continue to be robust.

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You keep spelling out that math, and some people keep ignoring it.

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I must be bad at math, let me try this...

100 adults in Israel, 90 are vaxxed, 10 are unvaxxed. Of the 100 adults in Israel, 10 go into the hospital. Of the ten, 9 are vaxxed, 1 is not. So, if you multiply that out, the number doesn't change. The vaxxed are going in at a higher rate.

Please tell me where my math is wrong... and according to the real world Israeli doctor, he contends that the shelf life of the vaccine is 6 months.

I see what may have caused the issue. I said "same percent getting COVID". I should have said the same percent is going into the hospital with COVID.

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Respectfully Cary, there's not a location in the world that is reporting similar rates of hospitalization for vaxxed and unvaxxed individuals. All available data indicates vaccination confers very serious protection against hospitalization and death no matter how you slice it.

It's being widely reported that unvaxxed and vaxxed INFECTIONS are occurring in similar ABSOLUTE numbers in most locations. That's a critical distinction that people either can't or won't process.

In other words, in the UK and Israel and many other countries, you are seeing roughly the same QUANTITY of vaxxed and unvaxxed people popping positive, not the same PROPORTION of vaxxed/unvaxxed positives.

In other words, for a given sample group of people you will have roughly the same number of vaxxed and unvaxxed positives.

What's key though is that in most first world countries we've got many more vaccinated people than unvaccinated people. And in most every case for these numbers are being reported, unvaxxed includes only people that have not had any shots and vaccinated includes people that have had one or two shots.

The numbers look even better for vaccination efficacy if you focus on hospitalizations and deaths for people that have been vaccinated, rather than just cases. Cases is much less meaningful barometer than hospitalizations and deaths because so many vaxxed positives are asymptomatic or only very mildly symptomatic.

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Civ caught me... Ive been lying the whole time. whatever...

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I think you're getting bad information or aren't processing through information correctly.

I never said you were lying.

There's a clear difference.

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Civ, that was my hyperbole. Funny how I'm getting bad information or I have a processing problem. I will say this, at this point in time, I don't trust damn near anything I'm hearing about the virus, including the crap I post!!!

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Yeah I hear you buddy.

Information distrust is a big problem right now, and one that ain't limited to just COVID for sure.

I know that I have been informed by certain customers that contractors coming onsite will be required to be vaccinated.

Here is a Pathologist discussing what happens to the body once you get the vaccine. He is with America's Front Line Doctors. It's not so cut and dried that the vaccines are helping according to him. If you have or haven't gotten the jab, you might want to pay attention to what he says and shows.

https://rumble.com/vkopys-a-pathologist-summary-of-what-these-jabs-do-to-the-brain-and-other-organs.html

Earlier today, I posted statistics on Virginia, showing vaccines keep people from becoming infected, hospitalized and dying from Covid-19. Here are additional statistics out of Florida, showing something similar.

We have a public health apparatus currently spreading a message that masking vaccinated people will protect the unvaccinated. The CDC and its director are doing damage to this country and it is happening so much, it almost seems like it is on purpose. If you want people to be protected, forget the masks. Get vaccinated.

49.5% of FL’s population is fully vaccinated.

They make up just 5% of covid patients (as previous tweet shows, hospitalized breakthrus mostly immunocompromised)

vaccine is ~95% effective at preventing hospitalization w/ delta variant

Some of y’all rlly trying it today 🙄✋🏻 https://t.co/6SxxKpQ0qy

— Alicia Smith (@Alicia_Smith19) August 6, 2021

The first anti covid vaxxers...Creepy Uncle Joe, Comrade Kamala, and Comrade Cuomo...

https://instagr.am/p/CSPaUfij3Ys

And yet politicians on both sides have been vaccinated.

PoleD said:

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And yet loliticians on both sides have been vaccinated.

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You really think the top politicians actually took the injection? There are many videos where politicians were "taking the shot" in those staged TV promotions, and people zoomed in and noticed that they never took the cap off the needle, or didn't push down on the plunger. If they actually did take an injection, I bet it was just a "placebo" or just full of saline. They aren't taking the poison that is for the masses.

DrummerboyWolf said:

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Here is a Pathologist discussing what happens to the body once you get the vaccine. He is with America's Front Line Doctors. It's not so cut and dried that the vaccines are helping according to him. If you have or haven't gotten the jab, you might want to pay attention to what he says and shows.

https://rumble.com/vkopys-a-pathologist-summary-of-what-these-jabs-do-to-the-brain-and-other-organs.html

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Excellent info. Thanks for posting. Highly recommend everyone watch this. This doctor discusses the many serious problems caused by the spike protein - including heart inflammation and permanent damage to heart tissue, blood clots, decrease in fertility as the spike protein impacts ovaries, and impairment of the immune system against other diseases (causing rise in cancers, etc). YouTube officially bans videos like this, of doctors who speak out against the "vaccines", masking, and the rest of the official narrative on the covid psyop. Rumble is now one of the best alternative video-hosting cites with freedom of speech.

There are MANY doctors opposed to what is going on. The problem is finding them, because of all the censorship by Big Tech social media companies. Also, of course, the criminal Commie Establishment media is not going to let you hear from them. They want you to believe the lie that 99.9% of doctors agree with the official narrative. Another very important thing to know is that in many places, doctors are now being threatened with having their licenses taken away if they go against the covid vaccines and other aspects of the agenda.

https://instagr.am/p/CSMTXbzHEVp

Lmfao!! The comments to that post have me rolling...and demonstrate the extreme distrust in the black community of these vaccines. They are not buying it.

Thread.

Just had an extended conversation with a worker who has- thus far- refused to get a COVID vaccine. 1/

— Jonathan Kimmelman (@KimmelmanJ) August 6, 2021

I am very much in the camp that the vaccines work. I am also very much in the camp that it is up to the individual if he / she decides to be vaccinated. I see it as their personal choice and I fully respect their right to make those choices for themselves. However, I will not wear a mask anywhere ever again for anybody, except in a hospital (if I ever have to go to one and they are still required) or in an airport (if I ever decide to fly anywhere again and they are still required). Any other business will lose my patronage - permanently.

I noticed going into Harris-Teeter yesterday that corporate has distributed a basic printed paper sign to tape to the glass door, with a statement about something after August 1, that they "strongly encourage the wearing of masks"... there was a fairly long statement following, but I didn't stop to read it... but it contained no large font, no large pictures of masks, etc. and I totally get it, as they are just covering their asses with the cancel culture lunatics.

Then I went inside and saw maybe about 1 of every 15 people wearing a mask. When I see someone wearing a mask, I don't think negative thoughts of them because it doesn't bother me whatsoever if they want to still wear a mask. Again, personal choice and I respect that. Too bad that respect usually isn't returned by the other side, but that's a topic for a different post at some other time.

I've been going about living a normal life since the day we were no longer required to wear masks indoors. Only time that I've had to wear one since was when I went to pick up my daughter and grandson at the airport (RDU) in mid-late June and actually was inside the terminal before I realized that masks were still required... ducked into the restroom and relieved myself and then walked back out to the car and dug around in the console and luckily found an old crumpled up paper one and put it on and went back in. Took a seat in baggage claim back in that corner near the vending area and chuckled to myself as I watched the airport employees in that area wearing them around their chin. Honestly, it never dawned on me that the airport would still require a mask but I guess that I should have. Anyway...

And parents should be the ones that decide if their children wear a mask to school... not the school boards and certainly not the teacher's unions.

Why do you so readily give airports and hospitals a pass?

Mormad said:

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Why do you so readily give airports and hospitals a pass?

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LOL. You know why... no other alternatives in those cases. But not planning to need to be in either anytime soon hopefully... maybe by then the insanity will be over.

Covid has not been isolated and can't be located. Dr. Jane Ruby explains.

https://rumble.com/vkt3mh-covid-not-isolated-cannot-be-located-does-not-exist-foia-response-reveals-w.html

Thanks for the response, bud. That's what i figured, but just wanted to see if there were other reasons too.

"It's vitally important that your children are forced to wear masks in schools all day long to slow the spread. wE'rE aLl In ThIs ToGeThEr."

Maybe he should put up slides and x-rays and CTs of what the virus does to lungs, hearts, and brains for a comparison

Lies, lies, and more lies

BuT tHe ScIeNcE iS aLWaYs ChAnGiNg

https://instagr.am/p/CSQeiUGDdlY

A fully vaccinated crew and guests on Carnival Cruise Lines has had an outbreak of Covid19. Kind of defeats the narrative that the unvaccinated are causing all the problems.

Covid Outbreak Hits Carnival Cruise Despite Every Guest & Staff Being Vaccinated

ZERO unvaccinated aboard. It goes against the narrative that the reason for “breakthrough cases” is too many unvaccinated people.

A strict face mask policy was implemented.https://t.co/RjCIGyOMeQ

— LionHearted (@LionInWinter44) August 6, 2021

DrummerboyWolf said:

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A fully vaccinated crew and guests on Carnival Cruise Lines has had an outbreak of Covid19. Kind of defeats the narrative that the unvaccinated are causing all the problems.

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They are definitely doctoring the "data" in the US to falsely claim that "99%" of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated. All over the world (UK, Israel, Iceland, etc) their data is showing a huge percentage of hospitalizations are people who've taken the injections - eg, 56% of deaths in UK from delta variant are vaccinated people, ~90% of hospitalizations and ~95% of serious cases in Israel are vaccinated.

"95% of the severe patients are vaccinated".
"85-90% of the hospitalizations are in Fully vaccinated people."
"We are opening more and more COVID wards."
"The effectiveness of the vaccine is waning/fading out"

(Dr. Kobi Haviv, earlier today on Chanel 13 @newsisrael13 ) pic.twitter.com/SpLZewiRpQ

— Ran Israeli (@RanIsraeli) August 5, 2021

Via:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/israel-australia-report-95-99-hospitalized-fully-vaccinated/

https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated

Quote:

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Why most people who now die with Covid in England have had a vaccination

MailOnline headline on 13 June read: "Study shows 29% of the 42 people who have died after catching the new strain had BOTH vaccinations." In Public Health England's technical briefing on 25 June, that figure had risen to 43% (50 of 117), with the majority (60%) having received at least one dose.

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