PackPA2015 said:

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Since we are talking about schools, our county school board meeting was last night. They voted 6-0 to make masks optional (affirmed the already optional recommendation by the state) for the upcoming school year.

Interestingly, they did vote to make rapid antigen testing available to school nurses with parental consent.

This does make the quarantine issue more difficult as kids who are in contact with positives will have to be quarantined at least 5 days with a negative test or 14 days without one. If they wear a mask, they will not be quarantined unless symptomatic. Means more missed school which is not something that any of us want at this point. The local health department and state determine the quarantine rules.

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What county?

packgrad said:

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BBW12OG said:

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caryking said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Need a vaccine passport to eat at a restaurant. But don't need an ID to vote. And they're supposedly doing this because we're in a "deadly pandemic"...but the border is still wide open with the Feds shipping thousands of illegals into the country every day.

Scamdemic. To bring in their Satanic agenda for a communist New World Order.

Time for mass civil disobedience. Really easy to print a fake CDC vaccine card too.

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GP, my daughter is moving to NYC next week. I'm going to need one of those fake vaccine cards from you...

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It might be easier if they established "government issued armbands..." With official government barcodes on them with your name, birthday, social security number and vaccination status imbedded on it. Or maybe just give everyone a barcode tattoo on their wrists so they can just scan it when they enter places.

Nothing can go wrong with that can it comrades? You sheep amaze me. As this unfolds so many of you are blindly letting it happen. Laziness is so much a part of your lives it shocks me that you have the energy to post on here.

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How are armbands intrusive or emotionally costly? They're all upside. That's the way it works, right?

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That's classic!!

PackPA2015 said:

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Since we are talking about schools, our county school board meeting was last night. They voted 6-0 to make masks optional (affirmed the already optional recommendation by the state) for the upcoming school year.

Interestingly, they did vote to make rapid antigen testing available to school nurses with parental consent.

This does make the quarantine issue more difficult as kids who are in contact with positives will have to be quarantined at least 5 days with a negative test or 14 days without one. If they wear a mask, they will not be quarantined unless symptomatic. Means more missed school which is not something that any of us want at this point. The local health department and state determine the quarantine rules.

---

This is a bit crazy to me, just knowing what the requirements are with a positive covid case in the room. If you're telling me my child can wear a mask and remain in the classroom despite a positive case, then hell yes let's all wear masks. All of these folks against masks are going to be really disappointed when school is virtual for their child because they had an unmasked contact.

Now, whether or not the rule about masked children not needing to quarantine is good or not is up for debate. But if those are the rules then my child is definitely wearing a mask so he can stay in the classroom as much as possible.

caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Wayland said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Wayland said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Wayland said:

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Packchem91 said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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Packchem91 said:

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New York City will require vaccines for entry to restaurants and gyms - CNN



I don't think its the government's place to dictate this for private businesses. But not a surprise it would be NYC.

---

Agree 100%.

THIS is a freedom being taken from Americans/business owners.

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Hey... Civ is actually espousing a conservative idea... also, do you feel the same about mask?

---

No.

Masks are essentially no risk and are not intrusive.

Also, very importantly, they don't have consequential economic or emotional associated costs. They don't create isolation. They don't keep anyone from making a living.

They're all upside.

---

Wonderful post!!! Love how you are all in on the MARXIST/COMMUNIST movement. At least you are no longer keeping it a secret!

Tell my 10 year old daughter how they aren't "intrusive." Tell the kids that could hardly understand the teacher when when she was talking when the went back to school and had to wear the masks.

We don't know what the cost long term is financial, physical or most of all mental yet. But you and your lefty comrades sure don't mind sacrificing the youth of America to make sure they grow up indoctrinated that when the government tells you something to take it as gospel and follow blindly.

Not me pal. You can take the mask and go pound sand with it.

Enjoy!! I'm sure you've watched it several times already.

---

Actually, I agree with some of this. After trying to hear kids interact with me all last week, I can fully appreciate that for school kids, hearing when masks are used is exponentially tougher. If the statistics still bear out that kids are almost invariably safe from the virus, then let them go without so they can participate more naturally.

Unfortunately, I do think the stats are starting to swing towards more kids getting sick, and more sick than say, 6 months ago.so that would have to be monitored.

Ie, if they are too young to healthily vaccinate, amd there is a modified version of Covid that more aggressively and effectively hits kids.then in person and massless may not be an option

---

Are kids getting sicker with COVID though? Davie's hospitalization age numbers don't show any significant increase (over the winter wave). Or is that just the prevailing anecdotal media driven fear?

Or maybe additional hospitalizations with RSV are also being seen as a respiratory issue. But, I would like to see raw data beyond fear anecdotes that there is real additional significant risk for peds with Delta.

The last two months were the lowest two months for pediatric fatalities since the pandemic began.

---

100%, Completely fair. I hope you are right and it is anecdotal.
It's why I said "if it's getting worse". But school has also been out this summer, so I'd expect rates to be lower? Now schools are kicking off again let's hope stories like Union Academy are few and far between

---

Why? Schools are shown to have a lower overall transmission rate than typical community spread where they are located.

Children don't just 'disappear' when they are not in school, they go somewhere. And since schools have a below community spread level and kids in general are not efficient spreaders (possible but not efficient), it is certainly possible they are at greater risk elsewhere.

EDIT: Union Academy didn't show up on the outbreak report so I don't have a breakdown, so I will go with the media reported 14 cases (8 students, 6 staff?). There were about 500 other people in Union County who tested positive for COVID in the last week. Does that isolated incident really move the needle?

---

Listen, you are much more informed on Covid than I am, so I'm not going to argue details with you. I hope you are 100% correct and it's a non-event. It will be great when students are in class and things are running normally.

So it's your argument that the rate in New Orleans and other areas "supposedly " recently affected by Delta, has not affected kids any more than it did, say 9 months ago?

I hope that is correct

---

I'll have to look into LA specifics. Will there be more pediatric cases when there are more overall cases? Sure. Will there be a greater number of cases that require additional medical intervention? Of course.

If 100 kids catch Alpha and 100 kids catch Delta and 100 kids catch Wild which have the most serious outcomes?

And what are those risks compared to the every day risks children take? Are they still a greater risk from the ride to school than COVID in school? Or gun violence?

I have to take a deep breath every time I let my kid ride his bike to the pool or go out with friends... Or do anyone of 1000 activities. I compartmentalize that parental fear. The relative risk for him or any healthy child is SO FAR DOWN the list of things that are realistically going to harm them, it isnt healthy media and health leaders to continue to cause irrational fear.

Every child death is an absolute tragedy. From any cause. But the real world realtive risk to a healthy child from COVID is very low. It isn't zero... But it is closer to zero than many other activities. So how do you balance that risk?

---

Great practical and philosophical questions. As a parent of 4 that have begun driving (and lives near a dangerous intersection on the way to school....I know that catch in the throat that occurs every AM and every PM til "you know").
The easiest answer I'd have is...we do things to mitigate the risks of those things
We wear seat belts and make them take DE.
We move out of the city, away from teh dangerous neighborhoods into the safe suburban areas
We don't let them jump out of hay lofts or ride in graddaddy's lap on the dangerous tractor.
We don't let them hang out with certain friends.
We restrict their access to certain TV shows or internet sites

What is the risk preventer w/Covid for kids? Based on the past 18 mos...one wasn't terribly needed. To your point...it was likely more risky to their long-term well-being to stay at home, away from friends and social development.
If that same strain is the only one today, it would seem 100% logical to quasi-"ignore" it, and just do normal life for kids. And in summertime outdoors activities, that still seems plausible.

Thats why I tried to phrase it the way I did...."what if" this new strain is more contagious, spreads to kids more easily, AND can cause more serious consequences more regularly. Don't know if any of that is validated yet, though some of the leaders/doctors in the hard-hit areas say so.

But...you bring out the over-arching issue -- fear. We have normalized the long standing risks you call out. We've heard about them forever, we can quantify them (to a degree), we think we've done enough, and unless someone takes a gun into a school/crowded area, we don't hear about those much.
Covid---it sells. It's captures attention. It scares us. Sure...its 99% recoverable, but 600k Americans have died. Our entire lives have changed because of it, unlike any other event in our lifetimes. That stigma doesn't go away overnight. The media hypes it, and %%'s, but are the relative numbers still really just trivial?

I don't know the answers -- but I wish we, as a nation, could discuss it w/o one side or the other pitching a hissy fit about it, which is what seems to happen more often than not. Like most things, I assume the answer is pretty much in the middle of what each "side" is suggesting.

I've tried to live my parenting life as a mix of both risk-averse and "shake it off and get back out there". My family has lived life to pretty much its fullest over these past 18 months, but also taken the appropriate precautions of vaccines and wearing a mask if asked (it had been many months w/o one, until last week). I don't really plan to change that, and I hope parents of school-aged children don't either. At same time, I really pity school boards, who have to make decisions on behalf of thousands of kids, many of whom may not be as well protected or informed as yours would be. With differing data points flying at them....and then that change i in the flash of a news cycle.

---

Packchem, I have two daughters (22 and 21)... one is off to NYC on Monday and the other is at NC State. One thing my wife and I did with the girls is expose them to the world and taught them how "not" be part of the world. In other words, we didn't shelter them...

I think my girls are very well rounded and strong in their believe structure, which is centered around Jesus! We have traveled the world, awesome places and missions trips to bring a strong balance to them. They now are very gracious for the things they have and want to give to others. Pretty amazing for a mean conservative person that the media has made into a dark figure.

In summary, risk adverse, in general, is not the way I would say we parented; rather, we used education and asked questions to get the girls to form their own opinions. When needed, we would ask follow-up questions to get them to think further about their opinions. At the end of the day, they are both hard-lined conservatives, without me pushing an agenda! My actions spoke for my believe structure, so, I guess they picked up on that. Remember, conservatives truly believe in helping others (not through government but through their own hands).

As far as the virus goes... as I understand, the virus will become more contagious, when it mutates (I think) however, it will be less lethal over time. The virus is always going to spread its wings looking for more people to affect, so, some in the medical community advise against vaccines mandates and we treat people to allow for the virus to do its thing and slowly become a normal virus, like the flu. BTW, it's never going away!!

Now, other medical professionals believe in vaccinating everyone to rid ourselves of the virus. I don't know which is the right option as we have qualified people on both sides believing strongly in their opinion. For me, we don't have enough long-term data to show the negative effects of the virus. That's why I'm on the sideline for vaccination. Funny, is that risk adverse?

---

Risk adverse can mean different things --- my kids went on international mission trips to places that were not all that safe. They were taught and allowed to make their own decisions, and stand behind those when they did.

BUT, risk adverse to me was -- not conditioning them that alcohol is an answer (its amazing how many parents let their kids and friends drink....gotta be cool I guess), setting hard expectations of responsibility and behavior, enforcing curfews, even when home from college (momma always said nothing good happens after midnight). Ie, teaching them that actions have consequences, and that you can control your surroundings to the point to improve your opportunities to have good results.

And you know what....my 3 boys are all conservatives. They all voted for Trump, and at least as they told me, all held their breath when they did so because they also thought that, as a person, he was a POS, and they similarly thought that was important. But I know they all sat up late election night hoping the tides were going to turn in the GOP's favor. They also all 3 got Covid shots w/o any prodding from us (my youngest son works with special needs kids at USC, so he pretty much was asked to get a shot very early in the process). My daughter....a little unsure yet on which way she's leaning....

As for your last question....I'll continue to point to the charts Davie puts up and say, risk adverse is getting the vaccination, though I get those with trepidation about the impacts of injections. Clearly...NOTHING is perfect though.

PackPA2015 said:

---

Since we are talking about schools, our county school board meeting was last night. They voted 6-0 to make masks optional (affirmed the already optional recommendation by the state) for the upcoming school year.

Interestingly, they did vote to make rapid antigen testing available to school nurses with parental consent.

This does make the quarantine issue more difficult as kids who are in contact with positives will have to be quarantined at least 5 days with a negative test or 14 days without one. If they wear a mask, they will not be quarantined unless symptomatic. Means more missed school which is not something that any of us want at this point. The local health department and state determine the quarantine rules.

---

So being in the medical profession....what is your take on the county's decision regarding the benefit of mask wearing for the kids (sorry, I'm sure you've answered this before).

But in this case, the county is basically saying, you are safer if you wear a mask than if you don't. There are clearly folks on this site who would vehemently disagree with this....but this county made a pretty clear support of that.
Your thoughts?

statefan91 said:

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PackPA2015 said:

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Since we are talking about schools, our county school board meeting was last night. They voted 6-0 to make masks optional (affirmed the already optional recommendation by the state) for the upcoming school year.

Interestingly, they did vote to make rapid antigen testing available to school nurses with parental consent.

This does make the quarantine issue more difficult as kids who are in contact with positives will have to be quarantined at least 5 days with a negative test or 14 days without one. If they wear a mask, they will not be quarantined unless symptomatic. Means more missed school which is not something that any of us want at this point. The local health department and state determine the quarantine rules.

---

This is a bit crazy to me, just knowing what the requirements are with a positive covid case in the room. If you're telling me my child can wear a mask and remain in the classroom despite a positive case, then hell yes let's all wear masks. All of these folks against masks are going to be really disappointed when school is virtual for their child because they had an unmasked contact.

Now, whether or not the rule about masked children not needing to quarantine is good or not is up for debate. But if those are the rules then my child is definitely wearing a mask so he can stay in the classroom as much as possible.

---

So which masks do your kids wear? Which mask policy are you following? There have been no less than 4 different recommendations. Again, I'll sit back and listen.

BBW12OG said:

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statefan91 said:

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PackPA2015 said:

---

Since we are talking about schools, our county school board meeting was last night. They voted 6-0 to make masks optional (affirmed the already optional recommendation by the state) for the upcoming school year.

Interestingly, they did vote to make rapid antigen testing available to school nurses with parental consent.

This does make the quarantine issue more difficult as kids who are in contact with positives will have to be quarantined at least 5 days with a negative test or 14 days without one. If they wear a mask, they will not be quarantined unless symptomatic. Means more missed school which is not something that any of us want at this point. The local health department and state determine the quarantine rules.

---

This is a bit crazy to me, just knowing what the requirements are with a positive covid case in the room. If you're telling me my child can wear a mask and remain in the classroom despite a positive case, then hell yes let's all wear masks. All of these folks against masks are going to be really disappointed when school is virtual for their child because they had an unmasked contact.

Now, whether or not the rule about masked children not needing to quarantine is good or not is up for debate. But if those are the rules then my child is definitely wearing a mask so he can stay in the classroom as much as possible.

---

So which masks do your kids wear? Which mask policy are you following? There have been no less than 4 different recommendations. Again, I'll sit back and listen.

---

Based on the stated policy, and his stated motivation for masking his kids, what does it matter which mask they wear?

Mormad said:

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BBW12OG said:

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statefan91 said:

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PackPA2015 said:

---

Since we are talking about schools, our county school board meeting was last night. They voted 6-0 to make masks optional (affirmed the already optional recommendation by the state) for the upcoming school year.

Interestingly, they did vote to make rapid antigen testing available to school nurses with parental consent.

This does make the quarantine issue more difficult as kids who are in contact with positives will have to be quarantined at least 5 days with a negative test or 14 days without one. If they wear a mask, they will not be quarantined unless symptomatic. Means more missed school which is not something that any of us want at this point. The local health department and state determine the quarantine rules.

---

This is a bit crazy to me, just knowing what the requirements are with a positive covid case in the room. If you're telling me my child can wear a mask and remain in the classroom despite a positive case, then hell yes let's all wear masks. All of these folks against masks are going to be really disappointed when school is virtual for their child because they had an unmasked contact.

Now, whether or not the rule about masked children not needing to quarantine is good or not is up for debate. But if those are the rules then my child is definitely wearing a mask so he can stay in the classroom as much as possible.

---

So which masks do your kids wear? Which mask policy are you following? There have been no less than 4 different recommendations. Again, I'll sit back and listen.

---

Based on the stated policy, and his stated motivation for masking his kids, what does it matter which mask they wear?

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I don't think BBW or I care one bit about what mask or whether one wears a mask. Make your own damn decision. Isn't that a novel idea?

Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Wayland said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Wayland said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Wayland said:

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Packchem91 said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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Packchem91 said:

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New York City will require vaccines for entry to restaurants and gyms - CNN



I don't think its the government's place to dictate this for private businesses. But not a surprise it would be NYC.

---

Agree 100%.

THIS is a freedom being taken from Americans/business owners.

---

Hey... Civ is actually espousing a conservative idea... also, do you feel the same about mask?

---

No.

Masks are essentially no risk and are not intrusive.

Also, very importantly, they don't have consequential economic or emotional associated costs. They don't create isolation. They don't keep anyone from making a living.

They're all upside.

---

Wonderful post!!! Love how you are all in on the MARXIST/COMMUNIST movement. At least you are no longer keeping it a secret!

Tell my 10 year old daughter how they aren't "intrusive." Tell the kids that could hardly understand the teacher when when she was talking when the went back to school and had to wear the masks.

We don't know what the cost long term is financial, physical or most of all mental yet. But you and your lefty comrades sure don't mind sacrificing the youth of America to make sure they grow up indoctrinated that when the government tells you something to take it as gospel and follow blindly.

Not me pal. You can take the mask and go pound sand with it.

Enjoy!! I'm sure you've watched it several times already.

---

Actually, I agree with some of this. After trying to hear kids interact with me all last week, I can fully appreciate that for school kids, hearing when masks are used is exponentially tougher. If the statistics still bear out that kids are almost invariably safe from the virus, then let them go without so they can participate more naturally.

Unfortunately, I do think the stats are starting to swing towards more kids getting sick, and more sick than say, 6 months ago.so that would have to be monitored.

Ie, if they are too young to healthily vaccinate, amd there is a modified version of Covid that more aggressively and effectively hits kids.then in person and massless may not be an option

---

Are kids getting sicker with COVID though? Davie's hospitalization age numbers don't show any significant increase (over the winter wave). Or is that just the prevailing anecdotal media driven fear?

Or maybe additional hospitalizations with RSV are also being seen as a respiratory issue. But, I would like to see raw data beyond fear anecdotes that there is real additional significant risk for peds with Delta.

The last two months were the lowest two months for pediatric fatalities since the pandemic began.

---

100%, Completely fair. I hope you are right and it is anecdotal.
It's why I said "if it's getting worse". But school has also been out this summer, so I'd expect rates to be lower? Now schools are kicking off again let's hope stories like Union Academy are few and far between

---

Why? Schools are shown to have a lower overall transmission rate than typical community spread where they are located.

Children don't just 'disappear' when they are not in school, they go somewhere. And since schools have a below community spread level and kids in general are not efficient spreaders (possible but not efficient), it is certainly possible they are at greater risk elsewhere.

EDIT: Union Academy didn't show up on the outbreak report so I don't have a breakdown, so I will go with the media reported 14 cases (8 students, 6 staff?). There were about 500 other people in Union County who tested positive for COVID in the last week. Does that isolated incident really move the needle?

---

Listen, you are much more informed on Covid than I am, so I'm not going to argue details with you. I hope you are 100% correct and it's a non-event. It will be great when students are in class and things are running normally.

So it's your argument that the rate in New Orleans and other areas "supposedly " recently affected by Delta, has not affected kids any more than it did, say 9 months ago?

I hope that is correct

---

I'll have to look into LA specifics. Will there be more pediatric cases when there are more overall cases? Sure. Will there be a greater number of cases that require additional medical intervention? Of course.

If 100 kids catch Alpha and 100 kids catch Delta and 100 kids catch Wild which have the most serious outcomes?

And what are those risks compared to the every day risks children take? Are they still a greater risk from the ride to school than COVID in school? Or gun violence?

I have to take a deep breath every time I let my kid ride his bike to the pool or go out with friends... Or do anyone of 1000 activities. I compartmentalize that parental fear. The relative risk for him or any healthy child is SO FAR DOWN the list of things that are realistically going to harm them, it isnt healthy media and health leaders to continue to cause irrational fear.

Every child death is an absolute tragedy. From any cause. But the real world realtive risk to a healthy child from COVID is very low. It isn't zero... But it is closer to zero than many other activities. So how do you balance that risk?

---

Great practical and philosophical questions. As a parent of 4 that have begun driving (and lives near a dangerous intersection on the way to school....I know that catch in the throat that occurs every AM and every PM til "you know").
The easiest answer I'd have is...we do things to mitigate the risks of those things
We wear seat belts and make them take DE.
We move out of the city, away from teh dangerous neighborhoods into the safe suburban areas
We don't let them jump out of hay lofts or ride in graddaddy's lap on the dangerous tractor.
We don't let them hang out with certain friends.
We restrict their access to certain TV shows or internet sites

What is the risk preventer w/Covid for kids? Based on the past 18 mos...one wasn't terribly needed. To your point...it was likely more risky to their long-term well-being to stay at home, away from friends and social development.
If that same strain is the only one today, it would seem 100% logical to quasi-"ignore" it, and just do normal life for kids. And in summertime outdoors activities, that still seems plausible.

Thats why I tried to phrase it the way I did...."what if" this new strain is more contagious, spreads to kids more easily, AND can cause more serious consequences more regularly. Don't know if any of that is validated yet, though some of the leaders/doctors in the hard-hit areas say so.

But...you bring out the over-arching issue -- fear. We have normalized the long standing risks you call out. We've heard about them forever, we can quantify them (to a degree), we think we've done enough, and unless someone takes a gun into a school/crowded area, we don't hear about those much.
Covid---it sells. It's captures attention. It scares us. Sure...its 99% recoverable, but 600k Americans have died. Our entire lives have changed because of it, unlike any other event in our lifetimes. That stigma doesn't go away overnight. The media hypes it, and %%'s, but are the relative numbers still really just trivial?

I don't know the answers -- but I wish we, as a nation, could discuss it w/o one side or the other pitching a hissy fit about it, which is what seems to happen more often than not. Like most things, I assume the answer is pretty much in the middle of what each "side" is suggesting.

I've tried to live my parenting life as a mix of both risk-averse and "shake it off and get back out there". My family has lived life to pretty much its fullest over these past 18 months, but also taken the appropriate precautions of vaccines and wearing a mask if asked (it had been many months w/o one, until last week). I don't really plan to change that, and I hope parents of school-aged children don't either. At same time, I really pity school boards, who have to make decisions on behalf of thousands of kids, many of whom may not be as well protected or informed as yours would be. With differing data points flying at them....and then that change i in the flash of a news cycle.

---

Packchem, I have two daughters (22 and 21)... one is off to NYC on Monday and the other is at NC State. One thing my wife and I did with the girls is expose them to the world and taught them how "not" be part of the world. In other words, we didn't shelter them...

I think my girls are very well rounded and strong in their believe structure, which is centered around Jesus! We have traveled the world, awesome places and missions trips to bring a strong balance to them. They now are very gracious for the things they have and want to give to others. Pretty amazing for a mean conservative person that the media has made into a dark figure.

In summary, risk adverse, in general, is not the way I would say we parented; rather, we used education and asked questions to get the girls to form their own opinions. When needed, we would ask follow-up questions to get them to think further about their opinions. At the end of the day, they are both hard-lined conservatives, without me pushing an agenda! My actions spoke for my believe structure, so, I guess they picked up on that. Remember, conservatives truly believe in helping others (not through government but through their own hands).

As far as the virus goes... as I understand, the virus will become more contagious, when it mutates (I think) however, it will be less lethal over time. The virus is always going to spread its wings looking for more people to affect, so, some in the medical community advise against vaccines mandates and we treat people to allow for the virus to do its thing and slowly become a normal virus, like the flu. BTW, it's never going away!!

Now, other medical professionals believe in vaccinating everyone to rid ourselves of the virus. I don't know which is the right option as we have qualified people on both sides believing strongly in their opinion. For me, we don't have enough long-term data to show the negative effects of the virus. That's why I'm on the sideline for vaccination. Funny, is that risk adverse?

---

Risk adverse can mean different things --- my kids went on international mission trips to places that were not all that safe. They were taught and allowed to make their own decisions, and stand behind those when they did.

BUT, risk adverse to me was -- not conditioning them that alcohol is an answer (its amazing how many parents let their kids and friends drink....gotta be cool I guess), setting hard expectations of responsibility and behavior, enforcing curfews, even when home from college (momma always said nothing good happens after midnight). Ie, teaching them that actions have consequences, and that you can control your surroundings to the point to improve your opportunities to have good results.

And you know what....my 3 boys are all conservatives. They all voted for Trump, and at least as they told me, all held their breath when they did so because they also thought that, as a person, he was a POS, and they similarly thought that was important. But I know they all sat up late election night hoping the tides were going to turn in the GOP's favor. They also all 3 got Covid shots w/o any prodding from us (my youngest son works with special needs kids at USC, so he pretty much was asked to get a shot very early in the process). My daughter....a little unsure yet on which way she's leaning....

As for your last question....I'll continue to point to the charts Davie puts up and say, risk adverse is getting the vaccination, though I get those with trepidation about the impacts of injections. Clearly...NOTHING is perfect though.

---

Chem, I really don't want to get into a pissing match with you on the best parenting skills. I can take your post and one-up you on everything you did for your kids.

My point was around risk adverse and potentially over protecting. That being said, you have your way and I'm happy you think you have done a good job. Congratulations!

My wife and I have been into many homes, in wake county, trying to help kids. These kids don't have reasonable parenting and it shows. In fact, my wife reminded me about the times, before we were married, and she was a Wake County Speech Pathologist, when we would go into the downtown Raleigh Section 8 housing to get parents to sign off on treatments for their kids. She cared so much for the kids that she would endanger herself so she could help the kids!

Now, I'm done with the pissing match about our virtuous life!

caryking said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

Since we are talking about schools, our county school board meeting was last night. They voted 6-0 to make masks optional (affirmed the already optional recommendation by the state) for the upcoming school year.

Interestingly, they did vote to make rapid antigen testing available to school nurses with parental consent.

This does make the quarantine issue more difficult as kids who are in contact with positives will have to be quarantined at least 5 days with a negative test or 14 days without one. If they wear a mask, they will not be quarantined unless symptomatic. Means more missed school which is not something that any of us want at this point. The local health department and state determine the quarantine rules.

---

What county?

---

My guess is either Rutherford or Polk.

Mormad said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

Since we are talking about schools, our county school board meeting was last night. They voted 6-0 to make masks optional (affirmed the already optional recommendation by the state) for the upcoming school year.

Interestingly, they did vote to make rapid antigen testing available to school nurses with parental consent.

This does make the quarantine issue more difficult as kids who are in contact with positives will have to be quarantined at least 5 days with a negative test or 14 days without one. If they wear a mask, they will not be quarantined unless symptomatic. Means more missed school which is not something that any of us want at this point. The local health department and state determine the quarantine rules.

---

This is a bit crazy to me, just knowing what the requirements are with a positive covid case in the room. If you're telling me my child can wear a mask and remain in the classroom despite a positive case, then hell yes let's all wear masks. All of these folks against masks are going to be really disappointed when school is virtual for their child because they had an unmasked contact.

Now, whether or not the rule about masked children not needing to quarantine is good or not is up for debate. But if those are the rules then my child is definitely wearing a mask so he can stay in the classroom as much as possible.

---

So which masks do your kids wear? Which mask policy are you following? There have been no less than 4 different recommendations. Again, I'll sit back and listen.

---

Based on the stated policy, and his stated motivation for masking his kids, what does it matter which mask they wear?

---

Because several "experts" in the Sleepy Joe administration came out and have said publicly in the last few days that the cloth masks DO NOT WORK.

So with your statement, and correct me if I'm wrong, knowing that the masks that 97% of the population are wearing are ineffective then why wear them other than to virtue signal that you are complying with an overreach from the government?

Riddle me that. Seems like wearing socks on your hands would be about as effective with your logic.

N95 masks are the ones they say are effective. Have you ever worn one? Do you think that a classroom can conduct normal instruction with a teacher or student attempting to have a conversation?

I'm pretty sure you may want to sit this one out. But.. feel free to stick your beak in the bowl that had nothing to do with you.

I'm sure you are masked up sitting at home with no one else around you so you will be "safe."

caryking said:

---

Mormad said:

---

BBW12OG said:

---

statefan91 said:

---

This is a bit crazy to me, just knowing what the requirements are with a positive covid case in the room. If you're telling me my child can wear a mask and remain in the classroom despite a positive case, then hell yes let's all wear masks. All of these folks against masks are going to be really disappointed when school is virtual for their child because they had an unmasked contact.

Now, whether or not the rule about masked children not needing to quarantine is good or not is up for debate. But if those are the rules then my child is definitely wearing a mask so he can stay in the classroom as much as possible.

---

So which masks do your kids wear? Which mask policy are you following? There have been no less than 4 different recommendations. Again, I'll sit back and listen.

---

Based on the stated policy, and his stated motivation for masking his kids, what does it matter which mask they wear?

---

I don't think BBW or I care one bit about what mask or whether one wears a mask. Make your own damn decision. Isn't that a novel idea?

---

He/she asked what kind of mask my kids are wearing so I assume he/she cares? Anyways, they are wearing whatever kind I found on Amazon that they would wear consistently for 8 hours a day at daycare.

Ripper said:

---

Mormad said:

---

Wayland said:

---

Mormad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

New York City will require vaccines for entry to restaurants and gyms - CNN

I don't think its the government's place to dictate this for private businesses. But not a surprise it would be NYC.

---

Agree 100%.

THIS is a freedom being taken from Americans/business owners.

---

Hey... Civ is actually espousing a conservative idea... also, do you feel the same about mask?

---

No.

Masks are essentially no risk and are not intrusive.

Also, very importantly, they don't have consequential economic or emotional associated costs. They don't create isolation. They don't keep anyone from making a living.

They're all upside.

---

That was good Civ... I love how you project your feelings and/or thoughts on others. Not intrusive, no emotional cost... that's rich, civ!

---

How are masks intrusive or emotionally costly, especially compared to any other mitigating behavior including vaccines or shutdowns?

---

I don't think they are in the true sense of those words, but i can see how some are just sick of them, especially those who believe they don't make a difference, who are angry because they feel somebody is making them do something they don't want to do, or who feel they're symbols of virtue signaling.

I'm sick of masking, and I'm probably the biggest pro-mask guy here. I can wear a mask all day in the OR and not think twice about it, but wearing one in the office or around the hospital makes me feel like I'm suffocating.

Others here disagree, but i do it because i believe that, other than vaccines and avoidance of human interaction, a mask is the best we can do to protect ourselves during day to day interactions.

---

Or the real world level of masking and masks used are not an effective prophylactic measure for an aerosolized virus. They lead to people who should actually be acting with extra caution to take undue risk due to their belief that a dirty rag on over their mouth will prevent disease. If COVID was only respiratory droplet spread, then maybe... but we should be well past that myth.

And they enable the fringe crazies to believe they will never get a respiratory virus again and if they do it is the fault of the unclean and unwashed unbelievers.

Now, again, if we are going full on fitted sterile high level masks, we can talk. But come on... masking is a joke at this point. Take a 30 second watch at the Olympics. Mask on on podium, mask off as we wrestle around with each other, mask partially on as we walk around, mask on one ear as we talk, masks off again for a selfie.

The level of care, caution, quality needed for masks to be real world effective is outlandish.

Use them in with ACTUAL FOCUS where they can have real incremental benefit.

---

Believe what you want and say what you will. I have a little real world experience with masks. i and my peers had frequent interactions with veritable shtloads of patients, many of whom we found out were positive AFTER said interactions, and interviewed and examined them with nothing more than a mask. And very few wore N95s except in specific situations. As I've said here before, I too have read the "evidence" people who think masks are a joke like to site, but i work every single day with hundreds of peers making thousands of human interactions (before vaccines) and protected by nothing except a mask and hand soap, and very few got it. That's a lot of real world evidence that masks make a difference when used correctly, even when not high level sterile masks in the face of an aerosolized virus. I changed my dirty mask about once a week. I wore an N95 less than 10 times. So I'm not sure the undue risk theory flies. Fringe crazies? They're everywhere and making silly choices no matter the factor... Masks are but one factor. That's not changing and not worth altering beliefs over. And, yes, i laugh at examples of politicians and athletes and other examples of stupid mask use too.

And since it's so aerosolized, it's floating around our hospitals and offices like a fart. So we're constantly exposed i guess. Maybe we're just superhuman. Or maybe, just maybe, masks make a difference.

The joke is in human behavior and policy making, not the utility of a mask.

---

(Conversely) Unfortunately many thousands and thousands of masked individuals got Covid-19, so your anecdotal "superhuman" explanation does not hold water. It would have been super easy for a Government medical body to do a serious valid controlled study to measure the efficacy of the flimsy masks against Covid-19, but they have not done so. Or maybe they have and didn't like the results?

---

How do you know if they were masked and when they got it? Also, i have said here before, they're not impenetrable iron curtains. But to suggest they make no difference is also just plain wrong.

caryking said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

Since we are talking about schools, our county school board meeting was last night. They voted 6-0 to make masks optional (affirmed the already optional recommendation by the state) for the upcoming school year.

Interestingly, they did vote to make rapid antigen testing available to school nurses with parental consent.

This does make the quarantine issue more difficult as kids who are in contact with positives will have to be quarantined at least 5 days with a negative test or 14 days without one. If they wear a mask, they will not be quarantined unless symptomatic. Means more missed school which is not something that any of us want at this point. The local health department and state determine the quarantine rules.

---

What county?

---

I don't really like to give out my county or personal information on here. There are only so many medical clinics in our county, so it would be pretty easy to pinpoint who I am.

Mormad said:

---

Wayland said:

---

Mormad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

New York City will require vaccines for entry to restaurants and gyms - CNN

I don't think its the government's place to dictate this for private businesses. But not a surprise it would be NYC.

---

Agree 100%.

THIS is a freedom being taken from Americans/business owners.

---

Hey... Civ is actually espousing a conservative idea... also, do you feel the same about mask?

---

No.

Masks are essentially no risk and are not intrusive.

Also, very importantly, they don't have consequential economic or emotional associated costs. They don't create isolation. They don't keep anyone from making a living.

They're all upside.

---

That was good Civ... I love how you project your feelings and/or thoughts on others. Not intrusive, no emotional cost... that's rich, civ!

---

How are masks intrusive or emotionally costly, especially compared to any other mitigating behavior including vaccines or shutdowns?

---

I don't think they are in the true sense of those words, but i can see how some are just sick of them, especially those who believe they don't make a difference, who are angry because they feel somebody is making them do something they don't want to do, or who feel they're symbols of virtue signaling.

I'm sick of masking, and I'm probably the biggest pro-mask guy here. I can wear a mask all day in the OR and not think twice about it, but wearing one in the office or around the hospital makes me feel like I'm suffocating.

Others here disagree, but i do it because i believe that, other than vaccines and avoidance of human interaction, a mask is the best we can do to protect ourselves during day to day interactions.

---

Or the real world level of masking and masks used are not an effective prophylactic measure for an aerosolized virus. They lead to people who should actually be acting with extra caution to take undue risk due to their belief that a dirty rag on over their mouth will prevent disease. If COVID was only respiratory droplet spread, then maybe... but we should be well past that myth.

And they enable the fringe crazies to believe they will never get a respiratory virus again and if they do it is the fault of the unclean and unwashed unbelievers.

Now, again, if we are going full on fitted sterile high level masks, we can talk. But come on... masking is a joke at this point. Take a 30 second watch at the Olympics. Mask on on podium, mask off as we wrestle around with each other, mask partially on as we walk around, mask on one ear as we talk, masks off again for a selfie.

The level of care, caution, quality needed for masks to be real world effective is outlandish.

Use them in with ACTUAL FOCUS where they can have real incremental benefit.

---

Believe what you want and say what you will. I have a little real world experience with masks. i and my peers had frequent interactions with veritable shtloads of patients, many of whom we found out were positive AFTER said interactions, and interviewed and examined them with nothing more than a mask. And very few wore N95s except in specific situations. As I've said here before, I too have read the "evidence" people who think masks are a joke like to site, but i work every single day with hundreds of peers making thousands of human interactions (before vaccines) and protected by nothing except a mask and hand soap, and very few got it. That's a lot of real world evidence that masks make a difference when used correctly, even when not high level sterile masks in the face of an aerosolized virus. I changed my dirty mask about once a week. I wore an N95 less than 10 times. So I'm not sure the undue risk theory flies. Fringe crazies? They're everywhere and making silly choices no matter the factor... Masks are but one factor. That's not changing and not worth altering beliefs over. And, yes, i laugh at examples of politicians and athletes and other examples of stupid mask use too.

And since it's so aerosolized, it's floating around our hospitals and offices like a fart. So we're constantly exposed i guess. Maybe we're just superhuman. Or maybe, just maybe, masks make a difference.

The joke is in human behavior and policy making, not the utility of a mask.

---

Something I've been interested in, behind all the metrics, re: masks. First, we all can acknowledge that clearly they aren't perfect. And I don't recall them ever being sold that way

But....I've always suspected that the greatest spread of Covid came in situations where people were not planned to wear masks - ie, in the home, in the dorm room, in the neighbor's house during a casual setting, etc. When people went to office, to school, to Target, HT, etc, they wore masks, clerks wore masks, and I wonder if the spread in those places was significant at all?
But then you come home, you take off your mask, you sit down with your mother-in-law, and voila.....all the sudden, 4 people in one house are sick.

Wayland I know you have been tracking some States specifically, where did Missouri fall in your tracking (if I'm remembering correctly)

Infection rate in Missouri coming down, which will then be followed by cases. We saw this in the UK with delta - we want more vax but delta certainly leads to more immunity as so much more transmissible.
https://t.co/yt4ZhBpFZz #COVIDActNow

— Monica Gandhi MD, MPH (@MonicaGandhi9) August 3, 2021

Wayland said:

---

Mormad said:

---

Ripper said:

---

Mormad said:

---

Wayland said:

---

Mormad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

New York City will require vaccines for entry to restaurants and gyms - CNN

I don't think its the government's place to dictate this for private businesses. But not a surprise it would be NYC.

---

Agree 100%.

THIS is a freedom being taken from Americans/business owners.

---

Hey... Civ is actually espousing a conservative idea... also, do you feel the same about mask?

---

No.

Masks are essentially no risk and are not intrusive.

Also, very importantly, they don't have consequential economic or emotional associated costs. They don't create isolation. They don't keep anyone from making a living.

They're all upside.

---

That was good Civ... I love how you project your feelings and/or thoughts on others. Not intrusive, no emotional cost... that's rich, civ!

---

How are masks intrusive or emotionally costly, especially compared to any other mitigating behavior including vaccines or shutdowns?

---

I don't think they are in the true sense of those words, but i can see how some are just sick of them, especially those who believe they don't make a difference, who are angry because they feel somebody is making them do something they don't want to do, or who feel they're symbols of virtue signaling.

I'm sick of masking, and I'm probably the biggest pro-mask guy here. I can wear a mask all day in the OR and not think twice about it, but wearing one in the office or around the hospital makes me feel like I'm suffocating.

Others here disagree, but i do it because i believe that, other than vaccines and avoidance of human interaction, a mask is the best we can do to protect ourselves during day to day interactions.

---

Or the real world level of masking and masks used are not an effective prophylactic measure for an aerosolized virus. They lead to people who should actually be acting with extra caution to take undue risk due to their belief that a dirty rag on over their mouth will prevent disease. If COVID was only respiratory droplet spread, then maybe... but we should be well past that myth.

And they enable the fringe crazies to believe they will never get a respiratory virus again and if they do it is the fault of the unclean and unwashed unbelievers.

Now, again, if we are going full on fitted sterile high level masks, we can talk. But come on... masking is a joke at this point. Take a 30 second watch at the Olympics. Mask on on podium, mask off as we wrestle around with each other, mask partially on as we walk around, mask on one ear as we talk, masks off again for a selfie.

The level of care, caution, quality needed for masks to be real world effective is outlandish.

Use them in with ACTUAL FOCUS where they can have real incremental benefit.

---

Believe what you want and say what you will. I have a little real world experience with masks. i and my peers had frequent interactions with veritable shtloads of patients, many of whom we found out were positive AFTER said interactions, and interviewed and examined them with nothing more than a mask. And very few wore N95s except in specific situations. As I've said here before, I too have read the "evidence" people who think masks are a joke like to site, but i work every single day with hundreds of peers making thousands of human interactions (before vaccines) and protected by nothing except a mask and hand soap, and very few got it. That's a lot of real world evidence that masks make a difference when used correctly, even when not high level sterile masks in the face of an aerosolized virus. I changed my dirty mask about once a week. I wore an N95 less than 10 times. So I'm not sure the undue risk theory flies. Fringe crazies? They're everywhere and making silly choices no matter the factor... Masks are but one factor. That's not changing and not worth altering beliefs over. And, yes, i laugh at examples of politicians and athletes and other examples of stupid mask use too.

And since it's so aerosolized, it's floating around our hospitals and offices like a fart. So we're constantly exposed i guess. Maybe we're just superhuman. Or maybe, just maybe, masks make a difference.

The joke is in human behavior and policy making, not the utility of a mask.

---

(Conversely) Unfortunately many thousands and thousands of masked individuals got Covid-19, so your anecdotal "superhuman" explanation does not hold water. It would have been super easy for a Government medical body to do a serious valid controlled study to measure the efficacy of the flimsy masks against Covid-19, but they have not done so. Or maybe they have and didn't like the results?

---

How do you know if they were masked and when they got it? Also, i have said here before, they're not impenetrable iron curtains. But to suggest they make no difference is also just plain wrong.

---

There is certainly a time and a place for effective high level masking and care. I commend the health care settings for taking the extra precautions.

General public masking is not reflective of what occurs in a health care setting. And setting policy as such provides zero benefit. Again, it gives a false sense of security to people who should actually be taking extra care. I mean, if I see someone attempting to use an N95 properly in public, I certainly will give them the benefit of the doubt that they are actually trying and I totally respect their efforts. Seriously, I respect that.

But we aren't talking healthcare here.

Just like you said, you like to laugh at the politicians and athletes for their stupid mask use. That is what real world mask use is. And it (and the mandates that lead to it) is useless and counterproductive and just a measure for politicians to deflect blame or appear to actually do something. Why are we codifying something that is is pathetic that we laugh at it... it is a literal joke... and yet we allow our public health officials to portray it as a panacea.

Please.

---

So it's not that masks don't make a difference (since those very same masks are the extra precaution used in healthcare settings but just more effective in our compliance), it's that the way masks are USED in public that makes them less effective in the overall real world settings? That is what you are suggesting, and that i totally agree with. But that would be true of every single mitigating factor from vaccines, to Cary's "proper therapeutics," to hand washing, to masks. And again, I'm not arguing for mask mandates or any policy. I'm against that. I'm for people making informed choices. And informing people that masks "don't work" is, to me, misinformation, and that's why i argue.

statefan91 said:

---

Wayland I know you have been tracking some States specifically, where did Missouri fall in your tracking (if I'm remembering correctly)

Infection rate in Missouri coming down, which will then be followed by cases. We saw this in the UK with delta - we want more vax but delta certainly leads to more immunity as so much more transmissible.
https://t.co/yt4ZhBpFZz #COVIDActNow

— Monica Gandhi MD, MPH (@MonicaGandhi9) August 3, 2021

---

I hadn't looked back recently. I wouldn't be surprised if Missouri as a whole hasn't rolled over.

We are going on well over a week since Springfield, MO (one of the earliest hit areas with this wave) rolled over. I check on them and they are still in decline.

I was waiting to see the numbers start come out today and start to capture cases free of the weekend.

Wayland said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Mormad said:

---

Wayland said:

---

Mormad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

New York City will require vaccines for entry to restaurants and gyms - CNN

I don't think its the government's place to dictate this for private businesses. But not a surprise it would be NYC.

---

Agree 100%.

THIS is a freedom being taken from Americans/business owners.

---

Hey... Civ is actually espousing a conservative idea... also, do you feel the same about mask?

---

No.

Masks are essentially no risk and are not intrusive.

Also, very importantly, they don't have consequential economic or emotional associated costs. They don't create isolation. They don't keep anyone from making a living.

They're all upside.

---

That was good Civ... I love how you project your feelings and/or thoughts on others. Not intrusive, no emotional cost... that's rich, civ!

---

How are masks intrusive or emotionally costly, especially compared to any other mitigating behavior including vaccines or shutdowns?

---

I don't think they are in the true sense of those words, but i can see how some are just sick of them, especially those who believe they don't make a difference, who are angry because they feel somebody is making them do something they don't want to do, or who feel they're symbols of virtue signaling.

I'm sick of masking, and I'm probably the biggest pro-mask guy here. I can wear a mask all day in the OR and not think twice about it, but wearing one in the office or around the hospital makes me feel like I'm suffocating.

Others here disagree, but i do it because i believe that, other than vaccines and avoidance of human interaction, a mask is the best we can do to protect ourselves during day to day interactions.

---

Or the real world level of masking and masks used are not an effective prophylactic measure for an aerosolized virus. They lead to people who should actually be acting with extra caution to take undue risk due to their belief that a dirty rag on over their mouth will prevent disease. If COVID was only respiratory droplet spread, then maybe... but we should be well past that myth.

And they enable the fringe crazies to believe they will never get a respiratory virus again and if they do it is the fault of the unclean and unwashed unbelievers.

Now, again, if we are going full on fitted sterile high level masks, we can talk. But come on... masking is a joke at this point. Take a 30 second watch at the Olympics. Mask on on podium, mask off as we wrestle around with each other, mask partially on as we walk around, mask on one ear as we talk, masks off again for a selfie.

The level of care, caution, quality needed for masks to be real world effective is outlandish.

Use them in with ACTUAL FOCUS where they can have real incremental benefit.

---

Believe what you want and say what you will. I have a little real world experience with masks. i and my peers had frequent interactions with veritable shtloads of patients, many of whom we found out were positive AFTER said interactions, and interviewed and examined them with nothing more than a mask. And very few wore N95s except in specific situations. As I've said here before, I too have read the "evidence" people who think masks are a joke like to site, but i work every single day with hundreds of peers making thousands of human interactions (before vaccines) and protected by nothing except a mask and hand soap, and very few got it. That's a lot of real world evidence that masks make a difference when used correctly, even when not high level sterile masks in the face of an aerosolized virus. I changed my dirty mask about once a week. I wore an N95 less than 10 times. So I'm not sure the undue risk theory flies. Fringe crazies? They're everywhere and making silly choices no matter the factor... Masks are but one factor. That's not changing and not worth altering beliefs over. And, yes, i laugh at examples of politicians and athletes and other examples of stupid mask use too.

And since it's so aerosolized, it's floating around our hospitals and offices like a fart. So we're constantly exposed i guess. Maybe we're just superhuman. Or maybe, just maybe, masks make a difference.

The joke is in human behavior and policy making, not the utility of a mask.

---

Something I've been interested in, behind all the metrics, re: masks. First, we all can acknowledge that clearly they aren't perfect. And I don't recall them ever being sold that way

---

We ignoring the former CDC director literally saying they are better than vaccines?

Or Mandy Cohen saying basically every week that the mask is the "...best thing we can do to slow viral spread".

.... I could go on.... but yes, the sell is there.

---

That's not calling them perfect or iron curtains. The verbage "better than vaccines" is wrong unless you're an anti-vaxxer, but "best way to SLOW spread" is quite different from STOP spread it would seem. I see nothing wrong with "selling" what most health care professionals see as a mitigating factor, the hated mask, as something that could slow spread. We sell social distancing and hand washing as mitigating factors too. They could slow the spread. But not perfect.

Mormad said:

---

Wayland said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

Mormad said:

---

Wayland said:

---

Mormad said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

Packchem91 said:

---

New York City will require vaccines for entry to restaurants and gyms - CNN

I don't think its the government's place to dictate this for private businesses. But not a surprise it would be NYC.

---

Agree 100%.

THIS is a freedom being taken from Americans/business owners.

---

Hey... Civ is actually espousing a conservative idea... also, do you feel the same about mask?

---

No.

Masks are essentially no risk and are not intrusive.

Also, very importantly, they don't have consequential economic or emotional associated costs. They don't create isolation. They don't keep anyone from making a living.

They're all upside.

---

That was good Civ... I love how you project your feelings and/or thoughts on others. Not intrusive, no emotional cost... that's rich, civ!

---

How are masks intrusive or emotionally costly, especially compared to any other mitigating behavior including vaccines or shutdowns?

---

I don't think they are in the true sense of those words, but i can see how some are just sick of them, especially those who believe they don't make a difference, who are angry because they feel somebody is making them do something they don't want to do, or who feel they're symbols of virtue signaling.

I'm sick of masking, and I'm probably the biggest pro-mask guy here. I can wear a mask all day in the OR and not think twice about it, but wearing one in the office or around the hospital makes me feel like I'm suffocating.

Others here disagree, but i do it because i believe that, other than vaccines and avoidance of human interaction, a mask is the best we can do to protect ourselves during day to day interactions.

---

Or the real world level of masking and masks used are not an effective prophylactic measure for an aerosolized virus. They lead to people who should actually be acting with extra caution to take undue risk due to their belief that a dirty rag on over their mouth will prevent disease. If COVID was only respiratory droplet spread, then maybe... but we should be well past that myth.

And they enable the fringe crazies to believe they will never get a respiratory virus again and if they do it is the fault of the unclean and unwashed unbelievers.

Now, again, if we are going full on fitted sterile high level masks, we can talk. But come on... masking is a joke at this point. Take a 30 second watch at the Olympics. Mask on on podium, mask off as we wrestle around with each other, mask partially on as we walk around, mask on one ear as we talk, masks off again for a selfie.

The level of care, caution, quality needed for masks to be real world effective is outlandish.

Use them in with ACTUAL FOCUS where they can have real incremental benefit.

---

Believe what you want and say what you will. I have a little real world experience with masks. i and my peers had frequent interactions with veritable shtloads of patients, many of whom we found out were positive AFTER said interactions, and interviewed and examined them with nothing more than a mask. And very few wore N95s except in specific situations. As I've said here before, I too have read the "evidence" people who think masks are a joke like to site, but i work every single day with hundreds of peers making thousands of human interactions (before vaccines) and protected by nothing except a mask and hand soap, and very few got it. That's a lot of real world evidence that masks make a difference when used correctly, even when not high level sterile masks in the face of an aerosolized virus. I changed my dirty mask about once a week. I wore an N95 less than 10 times. So I'm not sure the undue risk theory flies. Fringe crazies? They're everywhere and making silly choices no matter the factor... Masks are but one factor. That's not changing and not worth altering beliefs over. And, yes, i laugh at examples of politicians and athletes and other examples of stupid mask use too.

And since it's so aerosolized, it's floating around our hospitals and offices like a fart. So we're constantly exposed i guess. Maybe we're just superhuman. Or maybe, just maybe, masks make a difference.

The joke is in human behavior and policy making, not the utility of a mask.

---

Something I've been interested in, behind all the metrics, re: masks. First, we all can acknowledge that clearly they aren't perfect. And I don't recall them ever being sold that way

---

We ignoring the former CDC director literally saying they are better than vaccines?

Or Mandy Cohen saying basically every week that the mask is the "...best thing we can do to slow viral spread".

.... I could go on.... but yes, the sell is there.

---

That's not calling them perfect or iron curtains. The verbage "better than vaccines" is wrong unless you're an anti-vaxxer, but "best way to SLOW spread" is quite different from STOP spread it would seem. I see nothing wrong with "selling" what most health care professionals see as a mitigating factor, the hated mask, as something that could slow spread. We sell social distancing and hand washing as mitigating factors too. They could slow the spread. But not perfect.

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No, the best way to slow spread, is to stay home when sick. Provide additional benefits for people to have proper sick leave.

Allow those at true risk an 'out'. Whether it is early social security/retirement etc.

The messaging on masks is borked. They tried to sell cloth masks as effective and now can't admit they oversold them instead of focusing on high grade masking.

Even that doomsayer Osterholm copped to that this week.

Mormad said:

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Ripper said:

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Mormad said:

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Wayland said:

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Mormad said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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Packchem91 said:

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New York City will require vaccines for entry to restaurants and gyms - CNN

I don't think its the government's place to dictate this for private businesses. But not a surprise it would be NYC.

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Agree 100%.

THIS is a freedom being taken from Americans/business owners.

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Hey... Civ is actually espousing a conservative idea... also, do you feel the same about mask?

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No.

Masks are essentially no risk and are not intrusive.

Also, very importantly, they don't have consequential economic or emotional associated costs. They don't create isolation. They don't keep anyone from making a living.

They're all upside.

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That was good Civ... I love how you project your feelings and/or thoughts on others. Not intrusive, no emotional cost... that's rich, civ!

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How are masks intrusive or emotionally costly, especially compared to any other mitigating behavior including vaccines or shutdowns?

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I don't think they are in the true sense of those words, but i can see how some are just sick of them, especially those who believe they don't make a difference, who are angry because they feel somebody is making them do something they don't want to do, or who feel they're symbols of virtue signaling.

I'm sick of masking, and I'm probably the biggest pro-mask guy here. I can wear a mask all day in the OR and not think twice about it, but wearing one in the office or around the hospital makes me feel like I'm suffocating.

Others here disagree, but i do it because i believe that, other than vaccines and avoidance of human interaction, a mask is the best we can do to protect ourselves during day to day interactions.

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Or the real world level of masking and masks used are not an effective prophylactic measure for an aerosolized virus. They lead to people who should actually be acting with extra caution to take undue risk due to their belief that a dirty rag on over their mouth will prevent disease. If COVID was only respiratory droplet spread, then maybe... but we should be well past that myth.

And they enable the fringe crazies to believe they will never get a respiratory virus again and if they do it is the fault of the unclean and unwashed unbelievers.

Now, again, if we are going full on fitted sterile high level masks, we can talk. But come on... masking is a joke at this point. Take a 30 second watch at the Olympics. Mask on on podium, mask off as we wrestle around with each other, mask partially on as we walk around, mask on one ear as we talk, masks off again for a selfie.

The level of care, caution, quality needed for masks to be real world effective is outlandish.

Use them in with ACTUAL FOCUS where they can have real incremental benefit.

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Believe what you want and say what you will. I have a little real world experience with masks. i and my peers had frequent interactions with veritable shtloads of patients, many of whom we found out were positive AFTER said interactions, and interviewed and examined them with nothing more than a mask. And very few wore N95s except in specific situations. As I've said here before, I too have read the "evidence" people who think masks are a joke like to site, but i work every single day with hundreds of peers making thousands of human interactions (before vaccines) and protected by nothing except a mask and hand soap, and very few got it. That's a lot of real world evidence that masks make a difference when used correctly, even when not high level sterile masks in the face of an aerosolized virus. I changed my dirty mask about once a week. I wore an N95 less than 10 times. So I'm not sure the undue risk theory flies. Fringe crazies? They're everywhere and making silly choices no matter the factor... Masks are but one factor. That's not changing and not worth altering beliefs over. And, yes, i laugh at examples of politicians and athletes and other examples of stupid mask use too.

And since it's so aerosolized, it's floating around our hospitals and offices like a fart. So we're constantly exposed i guess. Maybe we're just superhuman. Or maybe, just maybe, masks make a difference.

The joke is in human behavior and policy making, not the utility of a mask.

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(Conversely) Unfortunately many thousands and thousands of masked individuals got Covid-19, so your anecdotal "superhuman" explanation does not hold water. It would have been super easy for a Government medical body to do a serious valid controlled study to measure the efficacy of the flimsy masks against Covid-19, but they have not done so. Or maybe they have and didn't like the results?

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How do you know if they were masked and when they got it? Also, i have said here before, they're not impenetrable iron curtains. But to suggest they make no difference is also just plain wrong.

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I've seen zero valid evidence that masks make "a difference". If you have real world evidence, please share. I can be persuaded by actual real world controlled studies that show positive efficacy, even partial positive efficacy. And please do not include pseudo lab studies using large aerosols or anything showing correlation. We are 18 months into this virus and mask mandates. There must be some real world evidence somewhere that masks work on the actual Covid-19 virus.

statefan91 said:

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caryking said:

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Mormad said:

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BBW12OG said:

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statefan91 said:

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This is a bit crazy to me, just knowing what the requirements are with a positive covid case in the room. If you're telling me my child can wear a mask and remain in the classroom despite a positive case, then hell yes let's all wear masks. All of these folks against masks are going to be really disappointed when school is virtual for their child because they had an unmasked contact.

Now, whether or not the rule about masked children not needing to quarantine is good or not is up for debate. But if those are the rules then my child is definitely wearing a mask so he can stay in the classroom as much as possible.

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So which masks do your kids wear? Which mask policy are you following? There have been no less than 4 different recommendations. Again, I'll sit back and listen.

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Based on the stated policy, and his stated motivation for masking his kids, what does it matter which mask they wear?

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I don't think BBW or I care one bit about what mask or whether one wears a mask. Make your own damn decision. Isn't that a novel idea?

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He/she asked what kind of mask my kids are wearing so I assume he/she cares? Anyways, they are wearing whatever kind I found on Amazon that they would wear consistently for 8 hours a day at daycare.

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Again, nobody really cares... BBW was having a little fun, I think...

Wayland said:

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Packchem91 said:

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Mormad said:

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Wayland said:

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Mormad said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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Packchem91 said:

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New York City will require vaccines for entry to restaurants and gyms - CNN

I don't think its the government's place to dictate this for private businesses. But not a surprise it would be NYC.

---

Agree 100%.

THIS is a freedom being taken from Americans/business owners.

---

Hey... Civ is actually espousing a conservative idea... also, do you feel the same about mask?

---

No.

Masks are essentially no risk and are not intrusive.

Also, very importantly, they don't have consequential economic or emotional associated costs. They don't create isolation. They don't keep anyone from making a living.

They're all upside.

---

That was good Civ... I love how you project your feelings and/or thoughts on others. Not intrusive, no emotional cost... that's rich, civ!

---

How are masks intrusive or emotionally costly, especially compared to any other mitigating behavior including vaccines or shutdowns?

---

I don't think they are in the true sense of those words, but i can see how some are just sick of them, especially those who believe they don't make a difference, who are angry because they feel somebody is making them do something they don't want to do, or who feel they're symbols of virtue signaling.

I'm sick of masking, and I'm probably the biggest pro-mask guy here. I can wear a mask all day in the OR and not think twice about it, but wearing one in the office or around the hospital makes me feel like I'm suffocating.

Others here disagree, but i do it because i believe that, other than vaccines and avoidance of human interaction, a mask is the best we can do to protect ourselves during day to day interactions.

---

Or the real world level of masking and masks used are not an effective prophylactic measure for an aerosolized virus. They lead to people who should actually be acting with extra caution to take undue risk due to their belief that a dirty rag on over their mouth will prevent disease. If COVID was only respiratory droplet spread, then maybe... but we should be well past that myth.

And they enable the fringe crazies to believe they will never get a respiratory virus again and if they do it is the fault of the unclean and unwashed unbelievers.

Now, again, if we are going full on fitted sterile high level masks, we can talk. But come on... masking is a joke at this point. Take a 30 second watch at the Olympics. Mask on on podium, mask off as we wrestle around with each other, mask partially on as we walk around, mask on one ear as we talk, masks off again for a selfie.

The level of care, caution, quality needed for masks to be real world effective is outlandish.

Use them in with ACTUAL FOCUS where they can have real incremental benefit.

---

Believe what you want and say what you will. I have a little real world experience with masks. i and my peers had frequent interactions with veritable shtloads of patients, many of whom we found out were positive AFTER said interactions, and interviewed and examined them with nothing more than a mask. And very few wore N95s except in specific situations. As I've said here before, I too have read the "evidence" people who think masks are a joke like to site, but i work every single day with hundreds of peers making thousands of human interactions (before vaccines) and protected by nothing except a mask and hand soap, and very few got it. That's a lot of real world evidence that masks make a difference when used correctly, even when not high level sterile masks in the face of an aerosolized virus. I changed my dirty mask about once a week. I wore an N95 less than 10 times. So I'm not sure the undue risk theory flies. Fringe crazies? They're everywhere and making silly choices no matter the factor... Masks are but one factor. That's not changing and not worth altering beliefs over. And, yes, i laugh at examples of politicians and athletes and other examples of stupid mask use too.

And since it's so aerosolized, it's floating around our hospitals and offices like a fart. So we're constantly exposed i guess. Maybe we're just superhuman. Or maybe, just maybe, masks make a difference.

The joke is in human behavior and policy making, not the utility of a mask.

---

Something I've been interested in, behind all the metrics, re: masks. First, we all can acknowledge that clearly they aren't perfect. And I don't recall them ever being sold that way

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We ignoring the former CDC director literally saying they are better than vaccines?

Or Mandy Cohen saying basically every week that the mask is the "...best thing we can do to slow viral spread".

.... I could go on.... but yes, the sell is there.

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Still saying those things or saying them 6 months ago, pre-vaccine? If so, well, then that is absurd. But Cohen has always been an idiot.