Packchem91 said:

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PackPA2015 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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statefan91 said:

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Kid infection numbers driven largely by infection numbers in adults

In Israel, we saw that as adults got vaccinated

Infection numbers in kids plummeted

So how do I best protect my 9 year-old unvaccinated kid?

By making sure all adults around him are vaxxed

5/6

— Ashish K. Jha, MD, MPH (@ashishkjha) August 3, 2021

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So I just had a conversation with one of my employees....she lives in the Concord area. Her young girls go to a summer camp in the area. Their friends, have 3 kids -- like 3 mos up to 5 years. The parents are vaccinated. The two older girls go to the same camp, and were exposed to covid. Because of exposure, all 3 kids were tested, and came back positive. Now both parents, are positive.
They did not send off the covid results to test for whether it was Delta or not...supposedly only randomly is that done, at least in Cabarrus county.

To our medical guys.....one of the kids is having sniffles....but also one indicated she was seeing monkeys -- ie, like hallucinations (or vivid imagination, of course). But is hallucination one of the symptoms that could occur? I've read mixed results, about like everything with covid.

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I have not personally seen that in any of our pediatrics that are COVID +. There have been reports of neuro involvement in the severe cases. I have attached that article. It was almost always transient and had no long-term effects.

Neuro Involvement in Hospitalized Pediatric Patients with COVID-19

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Thank you PA....that article seems to be more focused on severe conditions like encephalitis as a result from Covid...rather than does a young child having potential hallucinations present as a symptom/byproduct?

Sounds like the docs weren't particularly concerned....I had just asked the woman if any of the kids were actually having symptoms or not, and that was one she mentioned the docs were unsure about.

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I am certainly not a doctor, but certainly hallucinations could be fever related, not 'COVID-related'.

But having had to deal with years of a kid who had febrile seizures (which are scary as hell as a parent), people can have all kinds of responses to fevers.

Glad to be past that phase. Unfortunately, my son's seizures would trigger before the actual temperature spike. Nothing like being helpless as your 14 month old convulses and turns blue. You learn to quickly manage fevers. The craziest thing was as he got a little older (before fully growing out of the phase) was the micro-seizures. Instead of the full blown seizures he would have under 2, as his fevers would wax and wane, he would just be gone (like in a trance) for a 10-15 seconds and then snap back with no recollection of the lost time.

Mormad said:

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caryking said:

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Mormad said:

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caryking said:

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Mormad said:

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caryking said:

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The truth on all this is that it is all political! The political outcry's causes people to do stupid things. The vaccines were never intended, by logical vaccinologist, to be used on everyone. They were to be used only on the vulnerable!

These logical people believe you "CANNOT" vaccinate into the teeth of a pandemic! So, we should have vaccinated the vulnerable and treat the infected with proper therapeutics (heavily). The virus is going to jump and mutate to the least path of resistance. Also, this virus will "NEVER" go away!!!! Over time, it will become so,etching similar to the flu!

You all really need to start thinking differently! The group think authoritarians are loving this debate! They WIN!!!

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What proper therapeutics, Cary?

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Watch the videos I shared on Sunday...

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I did watch them. But you created the standard that if we disagree with the vid, we must state what we disagree with, why, and have supporting data. But you're allowed to believe "proper therapeutics" make an appreciable difference because a guy you like puts them on a slide, and just say "watch the video?" That's not exactly fair, my man!

Unfortunately, the "proper therapeutics" haven't really shown to make the difference the vaccines have made. They make some difference, maybe for some, sometimes. And really not for severe disease. It's more effective to prevent severe covid than to treat it. 600k deaths suggest it's kind of difficult to manage despite the presence of "proper therapeutics." You think the critical care docs i know didn't try these things to little avail? None of them felt these things, when available, made much difference. But the vaccines arrive and the data really changed didn't it? Davie's simple slide about the effectiveness of the vaccines absolutely cuts the legs off Malone's slide simply naming "proper therapeutics" with no data to support them.

I like Malone, too, Cary. He makes some great points. But some things he says i think are debatable. It's not fact just because he says it. The NYT headlines that he claims was already predicted by himself, has already been questioned when peer reviewed. People here called BS on that headline. They're probably BOTH right. There are infected vaxxed who are symptomatic and likely infectious, and there are infected vaxxed who more often asymptomatic who are likely not overly infectious. The vax very likely greatly reduces spread among the infected by reducing viral load. The slide he claims means Pfizer is admitting the vaccine doesn't work now that they have a drug coming out does nothing of the sort. Read it yourself.

He loves harping on the potential risks of the vaccines and makes any human watching very hesitant but never mentions the rate of risks and only says we don't know. He completely avoids the risks of covid vs vaccines, and he completely avoids mentioning the side effects of his "proper therapeutics." Guess what, they have side effects too.

The vids are great, and as a physician and a conservative i wanna cheer them, but there are very debatable points. That said, thanks for posting them. I thought they were one of the more enjoyable things i have seen on this thread.

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Thanks for watching the videos Mormad. Like I've said, I am not a physician and don't understand this stuff. I am looking at a person that has significant credentials and find him to be thinking differently than the mainstream.

A couple of questions:

Are these vaccines truly leaky vaccines?
If so, does that mean they have a lowered effectiveness?

Phizer has said that we need a booster. Why?
Malone says it's true as the vaccines weren't designed for a long term coverage. Do you disagree?
Government is saying we don't need a booster. Why?
Something is a miss here...

I agree, Malone does harp on the risk of the data; all he appears to be asking for is the complete data. Do you disagree?
When was the last time any federal agency provided updated data on these risk? I truly don't know...

Regarding therapeutics, have we had physicians truly pushing them when people are sick? I truly don't know...

The NY Times reports that we had leaked CDC Power Point. One of the slides says that vaccinated people can spread the virus. Are you saying your peers do not believe this to be true? That being: The NY Times didn't see a leaked CDC Power Point or the CDC isn't saying that the vaccinated can spread the virus?

BTW, consider what you call a standard is someone who is trying to educate themselves. The videos a very compelling and if anybody, who's qualified, can provide alternative thinking, then please do so. At this point, I do not trust our government and believe we should have other Scientist helping. Fauci is tarnished goods in my eyes! Just an FYI, the NIH has taken down all the research grants that would lead to the Wuhon Lab, from their website... why? where is the transparency?

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I think the vaccines can become leaky. The JJ already is as it was never better than about 77% effective or whatever. There is talk about the shelf life of the vaccines, and rebuttals by smart people talking about T cell immunity. The talk about shelf life is where the need for boosters may arise. And obviously variants play a vital role in that need. The fact is, nobody knows. As Malone points out, we're seeing things previously unseen with this one. So as i always warn, don't be so damn dogmatic in the things you think you know about this as it WILL LIKELY change and you will look wrong. Humility and the admission that "this is what we think based on available evidence right now" is the intelligent response.

I think the vaccines are great at keeping people out of the hospital. The data supports that. 97% of current admissions are unvaxxed, and most admissions are between the ages of 18-49. That's strong real world evidence, based on where we are vs where we were, that vaccines are doing their job. But for how long? Are we going to miss our window while playing politics over health decisions? We, in the medical community, are seeing more and more BTIs. Luckily, these are usually avoiding severe dz but many are still requiring outpatient treatment and feel quite ill for a while. And they are missing work, family and whatever. Is that better than a shot in the arm with the very rare real complication? My personal opinion is no, and most of my colleagues agree. Some don't, but if you think i think every doctor knows sht from Shinola you're mistaken. But it's just my opinion, Cary.

As i said, i do think the vaxxed can spread disease in some instances, and as the vax wanes those instances may increase. When? When the vaxxed receives enough viral load via prolonged exposure to overwhelme the immunity, and then replicates faster than the immunity can destroy. Then the vaxxed will shed virus. But who has a much much higher chance of shedding? The vaxxed or the unvaxxed? The unvaxxed of course. Then it's simple math, Cary. Wanna get rid of covid? Get vaxxed and make it eventually die on the vine or become truly endemic at a low rate and low virulence. And i know your response so let's talk about Robert Malone.

The truth about Malone is that he has a grievance. He says he invented mRNA technology while at the Salk as an MD/PhD candidate, but Dr. Kariko/ UPenn/BioNTech are getting the credit and have been nominated for the Nobel. He speaks of abuse and PTSD while at the Salk, had to leave for Northwestern, and work for a little known company where he claims his superiors once again over signed his inventions. He claims no institutional support and struggles with money.

Now, Cary, all this may be true and his grievances valid. He may be telling the truth about mRNA. But when others are winning Nobels and making billions off of what you feel is your's, wouldn't you be biased?

As for the proper therapeutics, none have shown the efficacy or effectiveness of the vaccines. Just look at the numbers with an unbiased eye for one minute. Good gracious guys, it's more blatantly obvious than Carolina's cheating scandal.

Finally because i know you guys are tired of my rambling and many of you simply don't like it: if there was some massive amount of vaccine complications out there don't you think I'd have heard about it? The government may hide stuff from you and i don't trust them either. But they can't hide my experience, the locker room talk, the lunch room talk, the emails, the meetings, or any of the ways the boots on the ground figure this sht out for community we're charged with serving.

I could be proven totally wrong, but this is how i see it right now.

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Mormad, thanks for the response! Actually, I appreciate your commentary. As a person that doesn't know what the hell people are talking about, I need perspectives.

I think Dr. Malone is compelling. I don't know if he has motives, actually, none of us do; however, he is not alone in his thinking. Now, we have a whole host of Doctors with the more mainstream thinking. They may be right as well. I heard Malone saying a bunch of: we don't know. To me, that shows vulnerability.

Last night, I watched a program that had two Doctors debate this issue. It's truly amazing how two doctors can come to the table with two completely different thoughts/ideas. For me, its confusing as HELL!!!

For that, I am sitting on the sidelines until more concrete long-term data comes out! I hope an authoritarian government doesn't force a decision on me!!!

hokiewolf said:

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Good synopsis of the current reporting by Josh Rogin of the Washington Post. Yes, I know a lot of you don't like the post, but I've found Josh's reporting on the origins of Covid and the fact that he was looking into the lab leak theory for the past year or so leads a lot of credibility to his reporting. I've provided links from the original post opinion piece and a more conservative source.

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2021/08/03/ccp-cover-up-gop-report-shows-evidence-covid-19-leaked-from-lab-in-summer-2019-n406310

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/02/new-report-says-covid-emerged-in-wuhan-months-earlier/

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Josh is actually a real good reporter. His latest book is worth a read. I'm currently in the middle of reading it...

Wayland... said:

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...he would just be gone (like in a trance) for a 10-15 seconds and then snap back with no recollection of the lost time.

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sounds like absence seizures,

i had them when i was a kid, daycare teacher called my parents when she saw me spaced out with toy money in my mouth (she had seen it multiple times)

unfortunately it developed into full blown tonic clonic epilepsy when i was in highschool

caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Good synopsis of the current reporting by Josh Rogin of the Washington Post. Yes, I know a lot of you don't like the post, but I've found Josh's reporting on the origins of Covid and the fact that he was looking into the lab leak theory for the past year or so leads a lot of credibility to his reporting. I've provided links from the original post opinion piece and a more conservative source.

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2021/08/03/ccp-cover-up-gop-report-shows-evidence-covid-19-leaked-from-lab-in-summer-2019-n406310

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/02/new-report-says-covid-emerged-in-wuhan-months-earlier/

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Josh is actually a real good reporter. His latest book is worth a read. I'm currently in the middle of reading it...

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Gordon Chang, also an intriguing columnist, always has interesting perspectives on China. What he says here about the efficacy of Chinese vaccines, I found particularly interesting. I'd be interested in more info on their technical differences versus western vaccines.

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/08/the-delta-variant-could-end-the-chinese-communist-party/

mdreid said:

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Wayland... said:

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...he would just be gone (like in a trance) for a 10-15 seconds and then snap back with no recollection of the lost time.

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sounds like absence seizures,

i had them when i was a kid, daycare teacher called my parents when she saw me spaced out with toy money in my mouth (she had seen it multiple times)

unfortunately it developed into full blown tonic clonic epilepsy when i was in highschool

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Definitely sounds like absence

Wayland said:

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Packchem91 said:

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PackPA2015 said:

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Packchem91 said:

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statefan91 said:

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Kid infection numbers driven largely by infection numbers in adults

In Israel, we saw that as adults got vaccinated

Infection numbers in kids plummeted

So how do I best protect my 9 year-old unvaccinated kid?

By making sure all adults around him are vaxxed

5/6

— Ashish K. Jha, MD, MPH (@ashishkjha) August 3, 2021

---

So I just had a conversation with one of my employees....she lives in the Concord area. Her young girls go to a summer camp in the area. Their friends, have 3 kids -- like 3 mos up to 5 years. The parents are vaccinated. The two older girls go to the same camp, and were exposed to covid. Because of exposure, all 3 kids were tested, and came back positive. Now both parents, are positive.
They did not send off the covid results to test for whether it was Delta or not...supposedly only randomly is that done, at least in Cabarrus county.

To our medical guys.....one of the kids is having sniffles....but also one indicated she was seeing monkeys -- ie, like hallucinations (or vivid imagination, of course). But is hallucination one of the symptoms that could occur? I've read mixed results, about like everything with covid.

---

I have not personally seen that in any of our pediatrics that are COVID +. There have been reports of neuro involvement in the severe cases. I have attached that article. It was almost always transient and had no long-term effects.

Neuro Involvement in Hospitalized Pediatric Patients with COVID-19

---

Thank you PA....that article seems to be more focused on severe conditions like encephalitis as a result from Covid...rather than does a young child having potential hallucinations present as a symptom/byproduct?

Sounds like the docs weren't particularly concerned....I had just asked the woman if any of the kids were actually having symptoms or not, and that was one she mentioned the docs were unsure about.

---

I am certainly not a doctor, but certainly hallucinations could be fever related, not 'COVID-related'.

But having had to deal with years of a kid who had febrile seizures (which are scary as hell as a parent), people can have all kinds of responses to fevers.

Glad to be past that phase. Unfortunately, my son's seizures would trigger before the actual temperature spike. Nothing like being helpless as your 14 month old convulses and turns blue. You learn to quickly manage fevers. The craziest thing was as he got a little older (before fully growing out of the phase) was the micro-seizures. Instead of the full blown seizures he would have under 2, as his fevers would wax and wane, he would just be gone (like in a trance) for a 10-15 seconds and then snap back with no recollection of the lost time.

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Jeez....that had to be incredibly scary and difficult. I've only ever been around one person w/a seizure, and that was my adult brother-in-law, who suffered a major head trauma as a kid, and occasional seizures have been a byproduct. It was incredibly scary and feelings of helplessness to me (I was just like 20 at the time), and so i can only imagine what it would be like as a parent with their child...glad for you, and him, that he has grown out of that phase!

Oldsouljer said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Good synopsis of the current reporting by Josh Rogin of the Washington Post. Yes, I know a lot of you don't like the post, but I've found Josh's reporting on the origins of Covid and the fact that he was looking into the lab leak theory for the past year or so leads a lot of credibility to his reporting. I've provided links from the original post opinion piece and a more conservative source.

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2021/08/03/ccp-cover-up-gop-report-shows-evidence-covid-19-leaked-from-lab-in-summer-2019-n406310

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/02/new-report-says-covid-emerged-in-wuhan-months-earlier/

---

Josh is actually a real good reporter. His latest book is worth a read. I'm currently in the middle of reading it...

---

Gordon Chang, also an intriguing columnist, always has interesting perspectives on China. What he says here about the efficacy of Chinese vaccines, I found particularly interesting. I'd be interested in more info on their technical differences versus western vaccines.

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/08/the-delta-variant-could-end-the-chinese-communist-party/

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I think a fair question can be asked... Who is the bigger propaganda government? China or the USA?

Packchem91 said:

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caryking said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Packchem91 said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Packchem91 said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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And so it begins again in Wake County. My business has me going to a lot of municipalities and county run buildings. Twice today I encountered mask mandates at different places. One had a sign on the door, the other did not and security had to tell me. I let them know how ridiculous it was. I want to know for what reason? It's all BS and about control. The masks do not work and people are starting to get really pissed off. They keep this up and there will be a real insurrection. Another total lockdown will not end well for the politicians.

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I don't get it....you got mad at people who don't create the rules?
And why did you get mad? Did it hurt your skin to put on the mask? Could you not breathe?

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I told the people at security I knew it was not their decision. Thank you very much.

There is no reason for this Bull Crap. And yes if the idiots in charge keep pushing there will be a real insurrection. If there had been an insurrection on January 6th, then Patriots would still hold the Capitol. You want your freedoms stripped away, then keep living in the fantasyland you are in. I will not be complying.

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LOL, and by putting on the mask (I'm assuming you complied), which of your rights was stripped away?

Next time, take your shirt off and try to walk in topless and maskless and see what happens...after all, that shirt is really a waste too, since it doesn't keep anyone safe. You've been complying with some kind of clothing "rights infraction" all your life.

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You are lucky you have certain people protecting your flaming posts. This is a "strawman" argument if there ever has been one.

So here's one for you comrade. You and your MARXIST/COMMUNIST buddies chew on this.

I own a business. It is open to the public. I don't care to work with a certain "group" of people. What you are arguing is that I, as the business owner, have the right to refuse service to said group.

Now in all of your infinite wisdom rationalize that one for me.

I'll sit back and wait until you goose step back up here with your respons.

And I'll go ahead and flag this one for the dynamic duo so their mornings will feel complete. I know they have missed me posting but since 1 out of every three posts I make mysteriously disappears for NO reason other than they don't agree with my politics what's the point?

Enjoy fanboys.

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Packchem, I know you've said you were a GOP supporter... my question is which one? Global elites? The common man?

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The one that is not the Democratic candidate. I think of myself and my family as "the common man", so why would I not be in support of that?
I suspect there are plent of "the common man" who think the Dem party supports them better too. Its why 95%+ of black people vote for Dems.

Not to make this Trump....but as I've said elsewhere, Trump did a number of really good things that absolutely could / should have won over many black "common man" voters for the first time ever.....but said too many dumb things to capitalize on it.

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LOL... "but...but...but...Trump!!!!"

What a damn joke.

The common man is the one you and your MARXIST/COMMUNIST PARTY make fun of as being a "rube," "uneducated," "redneck," "racist," etc......

It's obvious what your politics are. You and a few others should just come out and admit it like a couple of your other comrades have already done.

PackPA2015 said:

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On an unrelated note, we have a neat trend going on in our office this week. 2 weeks ago, we tested 15 and had 5 positives. Last week, we tested 30 and had 8 positives. This week have only tested 4 so far with results still pending. I've asked about the hospitals numbers and haven't gotten a response yet. Will update the post as soon as I get those.

Hopefully, a sign that our county is slowing back down in terms of case numbers.

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Can only hope, would like to see this go back down quickly, especially with school year coming up for kids.

PackPA2015 said:

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On an unrelated note, we have a neat trend going on in our office this week. 2 weeks ago, we tested 15 and had 5 positives. Last week, we tested 30 and had 8 positives. This week have only tested 4 so far with results still pending. I've asked about the hospitals numbers and haven't gotten a response yet. Will update the post as soon as I get those.

Hopefully, a sign that our county is slowing back down in terms of case numbers.

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What was the motivation to test? Symptom-based, or just random, etc?

Packchem91 said:

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PackPA2015 said:

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On an unrelated note, we have a neat trend going on in our office this week. 2 weeks ago, we tested 15 and had 5 positives. Last week, we tested 30 and had 8 positives. This week have only tested 4 so far with results still pending. I've asked about the hospitals numbers and haven't gotten a response yet. Will update the post as soon as I get those.

Hopefully, a sign that our county is slowing back down in terms of case numbers.

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What was the motivation to test? Symptom-based, or just random, etc?

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Only testing due to symptoms.

statefan91 said:

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PackPA2015 said:

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On an unrelated note, we have a neat trend going on in our office this week. 2 weeks ago, we tested 15 and had 5 positives. Last week, we tested 30 and had 8 positives. This week have only tested 4 so far with results still pending. I've asked about the hospitals numbers and haven't gotten a response yet. Will update the post as soon as I get those.

Hopefully, a sign that our county is slowing back down in terms of case numbers.

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Can only hope, would like to see this go back down quickly, especially with school year coming up for kids.

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Our county's school board meeting is tonight where they will decide on masking, remote options, or back up remote option if certain metrics that they will decide on are met.

We're now at 52 admitted, 14 in icu, and 8 intubated. Obviously that big jump in numbers since i last posted

This past week, 25% of symptomatic employees tested positive. 38% of employees remain unvaxxed.

R is now 1.38 in NC and in my area.

Mormad said:

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We're now at 52 admitted, 14 in icu, and 8 intubated. Obviously that big jump in numbers since i last posted

This past week, 25% of symptomatic employees tested positive. 38% of employees remain unvaxxed.

R is now 1.38 in NC and in my area

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For the admitted above....do they align with the national trend of being younger than previous (which could be a natural byproduct of the age trend of vaccinated....)

That's what our trend has been until now, and I've heard no different.

Mormad said:

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We're now at 52 admitted, 14 in icu, and 8 intubated. Obviously that big jump in numbers since i last posted

This past week, 25% of symptomatic employees tested positive. 38% of employees remain unvaxxed.

R is now 1.38 in NC and in my area.

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Growth rate looks like it is coming down (crossing my fingers it holds and keeps coming down). Obviously not rolling over yet, but really interested to see how this week plays out. Next two days will tell the story for the week.

Our data is still "spreading" and "increasing" for our region and NC as a whole. Who knows which is most up to date? I hope this is a mini peak, but my observation of what is going on around me doesn't give me confidence.

Mormad said:

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Our data is still "spreading" and "increasing" for our region and NC as a whole. Who knows which is most up to date? I hope this is a mini peak, but my observation of what is going on around me doesn't give me confidence.

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Case rate is increasing still. I mean, we will hit likely mid 3000 reported cases tomorrow and likely in the 4000s later in the week with the daily reporting.

But the growth acceleration appears to be slowing, IMO. Of course there is localization to this, so what is happening in one part of NC is not necessarily completely reflective of another (Triad growth may be one of worst in state) . There are other indicators like case reporting distribution but that is nothing definitive.

But before the case reports start to decrease, the increase needs to slow down. So we are growing, just not as fast. Still means big numbers because we are growing off of big numbers.

Again, will see how this week plays out, and if we see any real decline in those areas that were first hit in NC.

Gotcha. A little sun in the clouds maybe!

Civilized said:

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Packchem91 said:

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New York City will require vaccines for entry to restaurants and gyms - CNN

I don't think its the government's place to dictate this for private businesses. But not a surprise it would be NYC.

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Agree 100%.

THIS is a freedom being taken from Americans/business owners.

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Right....any business should be able to make those declarations themselves, if they so choose....but the government shouldn't make that decision for them....and in many cases, giving them no means to enforce and even endangering the employees when a prospective customer gets mad.
At least government buildings would have security personnel around if someone gets particularly upset about being left out.

Civilized said:

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Packchem91 said:

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New York City will require vaccines for entry to restaurants and gyms - CNN

I don't think its the government's place to dictate this for private businesses. But not a surprise it would be NYC.

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Agree 100%.

THIS is a freedom being taken from Americans/business owners.

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Lol

My new piece is out 👇👇👇
Strong arm tactics- vaccine passports, banning kids from school/college, firing people from work -- will max out fast.
Maybe increase vaccination by ~5%
And with major collateral damage
There are better wayshttps://t.co/pKM226BDuG

— Vinay Prasad, MD MPH 🎙️📷 (@VPrasadMDMPH) August 3, 2021

Mormad said:

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We're now at 52 admitted, 14 in icu, and 8 intubated. Obviously that big jump in numbers since i last posted

This past week, 25% of symptomatic employees tested positive. 38% of employees remain unvaxxed.

R is now 1.38 in NC and in my area.

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That stat appears to be consistent across the country...