packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

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The floor is yours. Happy to discuss any of the subcategories; there's some room for improvement in all of them.

Given that we have a need to continue selling Americans on vaccination and overcoming objection, do you think it makes sense to start at the top of the list and work down, or start from the bottom and work up?

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I think we're fine. People that want to be vaccinated have been. What more would you like? The floor is yours.

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Some Americans can't get vaccinated yet or at all. The decision to vaccinate doesn't only affect the person getting vaccinated, or not.

I want a lot of things. You tell me which are unreasonable.

Herd immunity.

Max reduction of virus prevalence to decrease severity of future COVID seasons.

Lower virus mutation prevalence.

To reduce risk and allow a resumption of normal activity for the immunocompromised and others that can't take vaccines.

A resumption of normal business.

To never have to talk about masks again.

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You don't have to talk about masks now. But the cult you're in keeps pushing it. You can resume normal business now but the cult you're in keeps resisting it. You can resume normal activity for immunocompromised and others now but the cult you're in keeps resisting it. They will have to wear masks no matter what if they decide they are concerned about Covid. Viruses mutate even though the virus cheerleader cult want to tell you they won't if you wear masks and get vaccinated.

None of your nonsense is reasonable for continuing limitations on society.

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Sorry I didn't join in the "discussion" last night... I'm sticking to my "ignore" the poster unless absolutely necessary. You can't win a debate with someone that constantly moves the goal posts. And given the fact that I was banned for two weeks for no substantiated reason I feel that I must tread lightly when talking to the fragile lefties I decided to sit that one out.

Great job calling out his hypocrisy. Like I have said before if the SOCIALIST/MARXIST PARTY didn't have hypocrisy they wouldn't have anything at all.

Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

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BBW12OG said:

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Glad to be able to be back and call you out for your BS statements such as the one you just made. Republicans are NOT the leading demographic that's not getting the vaccine.

Do your homework.

Yes, there are members of the Republican Party that do not want to take the vaccine not because of the SOCIALIST/MARXIST PARTY'S negative portrayal of the vaccine under the Trump Administration. They are hesitant to take it because it is their God given right to refuse to take it if that's their choice.

Something you and your lefty buddies fail to realize. Conservatives can think for themselves, make educated decisions for themselves, walk and chew chewing gum at the same time without relying on the government to do those things for us.

It takes a little effort and sometimes even hard work. You and the SOCIALIST/MARXIST PARTY should try those things out once and while. It really doesn't hurt.

Why don't you tell me what the #1 demographic in the country is that is unvaccinated. I'll hang up and listen.

Oh... go ahead and flag this post. I'm sure some of your comrades are waiting with itchy trigger fingers to beat you to it.

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What homework?

The single most predictive comparative demographic category is party affiliation. Not race. Not age. Not income level.

You know who's under-vaccinated? Whites. They're 73% of the population and only 64% of the vaccinated.

Are whites the "leading" demographic you're referring to? LOL

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The single most important demographic to those that politicize the virus. Typical hypocrisy.

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The floor is yours. Happy to discuss any of the subcategories; there's some room for improvement in all of them.

Given that we have a need to continue selling Americans on vaccination and overcoming objection, do you think it makes sense to start at the top of the list and work down, or start from the bottom and work up?

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Wow!! The Democrats are sheep!! Who would of thought?

Mormad said:

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packgrad said:

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Mormad said:

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packgrad said:

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WPNfamily said:

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Interesting news here from my team. I have roughly 75 employees and 4/75 have not been vax'd. 2 of those 4 tested positive this week. This is all the evidence I need that vax works. The two that did have fever and cough. I am a card carrying Tumper and 100% believe vax work. They don't 100% keep you from getting Covid but it sure as heck appear to keep symptoms from showing up.

I am so tired of people thinking you can't like Trump and also think vax works. Crazy how the world works these days.

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Sounds like their symptoms aren't really any worse than the vaccine side effects, and now they have the antibodies too. It all worked out.

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Except now they're contagious, quarantined from family and friends for days, out of work, likely symptomatic for longer than the 12 whole hrs most suffer from the vax, and arguably at higher risk of long term effects than risk associated with vaccination. Other than that, it's all equal! Sweet!

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For a fever and a cough. When 95% of the company is vaccinated. Yay. Sweet!!

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Yep, for fever and a cough. Employer rightly keeps them away from other employees, even vaxxed, because those people, though much less likely, could still be infected and miss work and then they're short handed. Can't be near family and friends, especially those at "risk," however you wanna define that. Real easy to say your kids are not at risk until you're the one exposing your kids and not knowing if they could be just that unlucky. But, like the vaxxed, they'll likely be ok. So to each his own. Gaining immunity thru vaccination is less of a headache (safer, easier, shorter, and less intrusive) than gaining it via infection for the VAST majority imho.

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The VAST majority in the company had the vaccine and we're high fiving on here because the unvaccinated got the virus and had mild symptoms.

It didn't all work out! They hypothetical children could get the virus and die. And vaccinated people could catch it and die.

Civilized said:

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packgrad said:

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What are the political demographics of people that got the virus and have antibodies already? What are the political demographics of people that got the virus and then got the vaccine? What are the political demographics of people that got the virus, got the vaccine, and still wear a mask? What are the political demographics of the people that got the virus, got the vaccine, still wear a mask, and want mask mandates? What are the political demographics of people that got the virus, got the vaccine, still wear a mask, want mask mandates, and want vaccine passports? What are the political demographics of people that got the virus, got the vaccine, still wear a mask, want mask mandates, want vaccine passports, and want kids to wear masks in schools? What are the political demographics of people that got the virus, got the vaccine, still wear a mask, want mask mandates, want vaccine passports, want kids to wear masks in schools, and want to vaccinate children?

Who is politicizing the virus?

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LOL. You're treating vaccine hesitancy like Fight Club. The first rule of vaccine hesitancy...is you don't talk about vaccine hesitancy.

Why are you so offended about discussing a glaring data point with regard to vaccination rates?

Are you fine talking about vaccination rates of Ages 65 and older, College graduates, Urban residents, Individuals w/serious health condition, Women, Hispanic adults, Ages 50-64, White adults, Suburban residents, No serious health conditions, Independents, Black adults, Men, Insured under age 65, Adults without a college degree, Ages 30-49, White Evangelical Christians, Ages 18-29, Rural residents, and Uninsured under age 65, just not Republicans?

Or do you not want to talk about any of them?

Analyzing the significantly overlapping Evangelicals and Rural residents and Republicans having the lowest relative vaccination rates on that chart is instructive if you have any interest in increasing vaccination rates.

You can't increase sales if you don't understand who's objecting to buying, and why.

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Civ, what the heck are you even saying? The vaccine hesitant are people that believe the government, media, and you name it... are all providing mixed messages (they have been clearly outlined here).

If you watch the town hall with the illegitimate president, he said: and I paraphrase... you can ask all the questions you want, but you need to get the vaccine. How did that instill any confidence into that persons mind?

I believe the vaccines work; however, I don't have a clear confidence (not a 100% confidence) that you will be here five years from today to keep up the banter. Yea, yea, yea, I understand no one knows who will be here five years from today...

The VAERS database is glitching (isn't that ironic) and the number of deaths, from the vaccine, has been changing; so, in this world of uncertainty, let people make the decision they are comfortable with making.

BTW, you got the vaccines, so, you are covered, right??

Headed to a place where no one is vaccinated, but at least from what I've heard 2nd hand, no one has really been sick all along. Have to assume bcause it's an area that gets very little "outsider" traffic to bring in the virus, but looking forward to hearing more directly about that.

A tangent - I'm wondering if WFH /Office hybrid models will be the norm for a lot of white collar work going forward.

My company has finally started going back to the office a few days a week with a plan to be back full time by the end of the year. But everyone seems to be opposed to going back full time, ever. They want to only be in the office 2 or 3 days per week.

No one is mentioning covid as a concern. Most just really liked not having a commute and the additional flexibility of WFH. I work in tech and a lot of people, including me, are hearing from recruiters who are offering roles with permanent WFH or hybrid office models. So there is industry pressure. If my company insists on being in office full time we will probably lose people who prefer full or partial WFH

Packchem91 said:

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packgrad said:

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Mormad said:

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packgrad said:

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Mormad said:

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packgrad said:

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WPNfamily said:

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Interesting news here from my team. I have roughly 75 employees and 4/75 have not been vax'd. 2 of those 4 tested positive this week. This is all the evidence I need that vax works. The two that did have fever and cough. I am a card carrying Tumper and 100% believe vax work. They don't 100% keep you from getting Covid but it sure as heck appear to keep symptoms from showing up.

I am so tired of people thinking you can't like Trump and also think vax works. Crazy how the world works these days.

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Sounds like their symptoms aren't really any worse than the vaccine side effects, and now they have the antibodies too. It all worked out.

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Except now they're contagious, quarantined from family and friends for days, out of work, likely symptomatic for longer than the 12 whole hrs most suffer from the vax, and arguably at higher risk of long term effects than risk associated with vaccination. Other than that, it's all equal! Sweet!

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For a fever and a cough. When 95% of the company is vaccinated. Yay. Sweet!!

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Yep, for fever and a cough. Employer rightly keeps them away from other employees, even vaxxed, because those people, though much less likely, could still be infected and miss work and then they're short handed. Can't be near family and friends, especially those at "risk," however you wanna define that. Real easy to say your kids are not at risk until you're the one exposing your kids and not knowing if they could be just that unlucky. But, like the vaxxed, they'll likely be ok. So to each his own. Gaining immunity thru vaccination is less of a headache (safer, easier, shorter, and less intrusive) than gaining it via infection for the VAST majority imho.

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The VAST majority in the company had the vaccine and we're high fiving on here because the unvaccinated got the virus and had mild symptoms.

It didn't all work out! They hypothetical children could get the virus and die. And vaccinated people could catch it and die.

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LOL, you respond to Mormad's point with a stupid comment like "we're high fiving...got the virus", and I'm the one who likes to argue.

Got it.

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And you proved it with another post right here.

I'll ask again in case anyone knows. What are the characteristics of the people now being hospitalized and now dying. Not vax status, but age, weight, and comorbidities. I'm trying to find out if healthy non obese people under 50 are being hospitalized and dying, with any real numbers. Not rare exceptions. Anyone know?

Daviewolf83 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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It's morally wrong to force anyone to inject something into their body against their will. That is a violation of the most fundamental of human rights...that you get to decide what goes into your own body. I get the "muh private company" argument, and that you can find another job with a company that doesn't mandate vaccines as a condition of employment. But those companies that mandate these injections are wrong for doing so. There must be medical and religious exemptions at the very least. Those are provided even for children going to school, with vaccines that have been required for many decades.

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For my son's university, there are medical and religious exemptions. For medical exemption, the student had to submit paperwork documenting the health condition to student health by July 1. For the religious exemption, the exemption has to be a well-known and documented tenant of the religion. Those students who failed to submit proof of vaccination or apply for an exemption by July 1 are now being removed from Fall class enrollments and from student housing. The three football players had to meet one of the two exemptions.

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People should be able to deny taking these vaccines for ANY reason. The fundamental principle that governs all should be the fact that no one should be forced to take anything into their body against their will. So the "justifications" for not taking it should not even be limited to just medical or religious reasons.

But even if you just talk about "religious" reasons, how about the fact that these vaccines have (admittedly) been produced by using cells originally isolated from aborted fetal tissue? It's "well known" and "well documented" in ALL Christian denominations that abortion is wicked and is murder, and that body parts of murdered babies should not be exploited and used for any purpose.

Isn't this essentially "free market" at work then? You are not being forced to put the vaccine in your body and you have a choice to engage in things that do and do not require the vaccine.

NFL players are not required to get the vaccine. However, there is a significant penalty to teams that have outbreaks so that will likely influence their decisions. They have the option to not play football, go play football in a different league (XFL, CFL, etc), or find a different type of job. There is no requirement that they play football.

statefan91 said:

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Isn't this essentially "free market" at work then? You are not being forced to put the vaccine in your body and you have a choice to engage in things that do and do not require the vaccine.

NFL players are not required to get the vaccine. However, there is a significant penalty to teams that have outbreaks so that will likely influence their decisions. They have the option to not play football, go play football in a different league (XFL, CFL, etc), or find a different type of job. There is no requirement that they play football.

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At some point, it becomes a de facto "requirement" -- if, for example (hypothetically), for a nurse if virtually all hospitals are mandating the injections. Or if (hypothetically), ~98% of all employers mandate injections.

And these new draconian "penalties" for sports are another thing that expose this "covid threat" as a huge fraud -- because they are WAY over the line and heavy-handed. How can you justify penalizing a team with a forfeit if they are under an arbitrary (85%) vaccine threshhold and 1 team member tests positive? Wouldn't a more appropriate "penalization" be to just disqualify the one team member that tested positive? (as has been done up to this point). But no, they have gone "nuclear" with the penalties -- showing that the REAL AGENDA is to coerce and mandate these vaccines on people. It's not about "the science" or concern for public health.

These new penalties are the equivalent of Sydney just going into full-blown tyrannical lockdown, sealing off a neighborhood of 900,000 residents because of 1 death.

Of course, I'm against ALL of this nonsense, and don't believe that any player should be disqualified for having a cold, especially when people under 40 are at extremely minimal risk from this boogeyman virus...let alone disqualifying people/teams given all these false positives from this completely bogus PCR test.

" Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection"

https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/

statefan91 said:

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Isn't this essentially "free market" at work then? You are not being forced to put the vaccine in your body and you have a choice to engage in things that do and do not require the vaccine.

NFL players are not required to get the vaccine. However, there is a significant penalty to teams that have outbreaks so that will likely influence their decisions. They have the option to not play football, go play football in a different league (XFL, CFL, etc), or find a different type of job. There is no requirement that they play football.

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Ahhhh... so now you support "free market..." Good to know.

And before you say anything silly about civil rights, discrimination etc... there isn't on iota of difference. Now riddle me this.

So let's say a baker decides he/she does not want to bake a cake for a person. Then that is their right to refuse service correct according to your definition of "free market?"

Said person, who wanted the cake, could just go find another baker in order to get the cake right? There are other bakeries available and they could just as easily find on that would bake the cake they desired.

It is a free market and by your definition the first baker has the right to refuse service or to translate in your terms... "refuse employment of the requested party..."

You follow me? Please tell me how that is any different with your claim of "free market..." being the reason for forced vaccinations.

This doesn't fit the left's narrative of always claiming to be the victim and always claiming to be discriminated against and anyone that doesn't goose step in line with them is some kind of -ist. A sad damn way to go through life.

I love how the left can spin thing faster than a DJ in Miami..... as long as it fits their narrative. Man... fish in a barrel have to be tougher...

I think the Supreme Court already sided with the baker, didn't they?

statefan91 said:

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I think the Supreme Court already sided with the baker, didn't they?

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Narrow ruling. Not free market.

statefan91 said:

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I think the Supreme Court already sided with the baker, didn't they?

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Keep up with your party's latest "victims.."

To answer your question yes.. the SCOTUS did... but just like every "non-issue" the lefties and your party say the Conservatives blow out of proportion another activist judge makes a ruling in direct contradiction of the SCOTUS ruling.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/06/17/judge-rules-christian-baker-jack-phillips-must-make-gender-transition-cake/

The way your party is going that poor baker will be run out of business because he eventually will have to refuse baking a cake for some non-gendered person marrying a refrigerator. I cleaned up my first idea... but you see where your party takes things?

"We only are talking about "X"...no way it ever evolves into such absurdity."

Now your ilk tell us men can be pregnant and have babies. That there are over 130 different sexes. A beating heart doesn't signify life... but a person with a non-beating heart gets issued a death certificate.

The self-proclaimed "party of science" am I right???? LMAO... and you wonder why anyone doubts the BS drivel that comes from the left and supported blindly by their mindless sheep....

You didn't answer the question of "free market" btw.. You tried to get me with a "gotcha" moment... FAIL. Same baker that has been targeted by a self-proclaimed "activist" DA... at least the POS DA isn't hiding their agenda. The judge is also known as a "bench activist."

Seems your side has those in spades.....

I look forward to you correcting your statement and answering the question on the free market and how that is not a blatant violation of "free market" rights.

Ripper said:

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I'll ask again in case anyone knows. What are the characteristics of the people now being hospitalized and now dying. Not vax status, but age, weight, and comorbidities. I'm trying to find out if healthy non obese people under 50 are being hospitalized and dying, with any real numbers. Not rare exceptions. Anyone know?

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I talked to my brother this morning. He's an ER doc in SC and has shifts at a few different hospitals.

He said the ER is hell again. Plenty of covid patients. The worst ones who die or were at serious risk to die have all been old, obese, or had other comorbides.

There are younger, healthy people in the hospital, but they aren't the ones at death's door. Still they are sick enough to require hospitalization up to a week or so.

Have heard the same from my brother in NC. Seeing the major majority of people with covid who haven't had the vaccine yet.

More basic questions that expose this whole thing as a fraud, not about a real health "crisis" but being used to push an ulterior agenda.

https://instagr.am/p/CRq6rjQM2oX

Definitely need to lock everyone in at home and make mask wearing mandatory inside your homes. We can't let this thing get out of control....

We must listen to the science... or at least the science of the day....

Guess what? It's here. It's not going away. Watching CNN and MSNBC and passing along stories is typical... Yes.. data shows increases. It was also well known that viruses mutate. We as the human race can't let a damn political party's desire for power control our lives.

You lefties believe in Darwinism and evolution. Survival of the fittest right? Well.... do you not see ANY hypocrisy in what your party is trying to do? If this was a "natural" occurring virus then shouldn't we let nature take it's course? Or in this instance we need to instill fear in the people so we can assure that people can mail in vote, ballot harvest and have unlimited voting day?

Which science are you following today comrades?

Maybe when President Trump is re-elected he can cure Covid like he did the flu and the common cold......

This is nothing but political and it was/and has been since the start. Sorry to the OP for saying to keep politics out of it but it should have been at the forefront.

Cowering in fear is what the lefties want and so many are eager to have their lives controlled by that. I wonder how many deaths from Covid have NOT had co-morbidities?

Motorcycle wrecks, car accidents, suicides, heart attacks, cancer, gang violence deaths, shootings etc... have all been linked to Covid 19... FACT.

Again... the "party of science" has an agenda and it is clear as day.

I despise Ben Shapiro, as he is a fake conservative RINO shill, but this point must be regularly made. There are many other causes of death FAR greater than the Wu flu. The current level of alleged deaths from covid is much less than even the regular flu.

https://instagr.am/p/CRpvnJ3t472

But let's just freak out and go back under lockdown and have vaccine passports and face diaper mandates again because the communist Lamestream media has a new story about a "covid surge" every 2 minutes.

IseWolf22 said:

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Ripper said:

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I'll ask again in case anyone knows. What are the characteristics of the people now being hospitalized and now dying. Not vax status, but age, weight, and comorbidities. I'm trying to find out if healthy non obese people under 50 are being hospitalized and dying, with any real numbers. Not rare exceptions. Anyone know?

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I talked to my brother this morning. He's an ER doc in SC and has shifts at a few different hospitals.

He said the ER is hell again. Plenty of covid patients. The worst ones who die or were at serious risk to die have all been old, obese, or had other comorbides.

There are younger, healthy people in the hospital, but they aren't the ones at death's door. Still they are sick enough to require hospitalization up to a week or so.

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Thanks for the response. So no healthy younger people dying. Good to hear. Otherwise healthy people showing up at the hospital is similar to pre-covid Flu winters.

Packchem91 said:

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PackFansXL said:

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statefan91 said:

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I think the Supreme Court already sided with the baker, didn't they?

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They did. The next week the plaintiff requested another cake with a different objectionable theme. The baker politely refused. The plaintiff launched another lawsuit. Obviously, the goal is to ruin this guy's business and financially break him. The saga continues ...

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Seriously? This is where a judge should be reasonable and slap a huge fine on the plaintiff. Make it extremely painful for that SOB who is trying to be a pile of crap.

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Totally agree. The legal system is still pursuing the baker though. They already said he has to make the cake ... again.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/06/17/judge-rules-christian-baker-jack-phillips-must-make-gender-transition-cake/

GuerrillaPack said:

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packgrad said:

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" Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection"

https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/

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Probably 75% of the population already got the Rona at some point in the last year and a half.

I remember getting a very weird cold around December of 2019. I think I probably got it then.

And being covid recovered gives you better immunity than these mystery injection "vaccines". So I don't need to be jabbed.

The fact that virtually NO ONE is talking about natural immunity from covid-recovered patients is yet another huge red flag that this is all a fraud. They are pushing these vaccines as the "only" cure and "only solution". If they were really concerned about health and safety and the truth, they would acknowledge natural immunity. The fact that they sweep this under the rug and deny natural immunity is yet another thing that smells rotten in Denmark.

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Funny you should say "weird cold", same thing happened to me in Jan 2020 including a cough that took over a month to go away. Probably because I work around a number of Chinese nationals. Anyway, I had octogenarians under my roof so I feel blessed that I didn't pass it along to them.

Same exact thing. Reason I said "weird" was because it included a cough that took about 2 weeks to go away. It wasn't a bad cough, just annoying. And overall it was a very mild cold, without any serious symptoms/effects.