My county only reports fully vaccinated. It says 27%. So we're not that much. Have no idea how many more have 1 shot in. Agree that statewide there's no way in hell we get to 66% 1 shot in by June 1st.
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Vaccines are available through a health department drive thru at our college summer league baseball stadium and through most of our local pharmacies now. So widely available. Participation has slowed down tremendously since J&J paused.
Wayland said:PackPA2015 said:Lucky ducks! My county is at 23% fully vaccinated and 27% with 1 dose...Wayland said:
I just ran the vaccination numbers for Wake County and it looks like Wake is already at 66% of adults vaccinated.
Call Cooper and lift all our mandates in Wake!!
Wake is at 557,166 1 dose and 453,603 complete. Assuming the rough number of 24% of the population are minors based on census data, that puts wake at about 2/3rds one dosed adults.
If only Wake (or the Triangle) could get lifted for hitting the benchmark. I was looking at some of ther other numbers statewide, and ohhhh boy.... We are not getting 66% 18+ statewide.
I don't think so either. I think the goals should be related to the most vulnerable segments of the population. I just don't think we're going to get to 2/3.
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Yeah... I am not real optimistic about it either. That was my biggest worry when they finally announced that as the goal. We are starting to hit that plateau of vaccination willingness it seems.Wayland said:PackPA2015 said:Lucky ducks! My county is at 23% fully vaccinated and 27% with 1 dose...Wayland said:
I just ran the vaccination numbers for Wake County and it looks like Wake is already at 66% of adults vaccinated.
Call Cooper and lift all our mandates in Wake!!
Wake is at 557,166 1 dose and 453,603 complete. Assuming the rough number of 24% of the population are minors based on census data, that puts wake at about 2/3rds one dosed adults.
If only Wake (or the Triangle) could get lifted for hitting the benchmark. I was looking at some of ther other numbers statewide, and ohhhh boy.... We are not getting 66% 18+ statewide.
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I think until more universities require it, businesses require it of their employees, and events require people to be vaccinated to attend, I think we will hit a plateau in the 50-60% range. It does look like the more vulnerable populations will be over 70%, but the younger ages are going to be really tough to get to those levels at this current pace.PackPA2015 said:Yeah... I am not real optimistic about it either. That was my biggest worry when they finally announced that as the goal. We are starting to hit that plateau of vaccination willingness it seems.Wayland said:PackPA2015 said:Lucky ducks! My county is at 23% fully vaccinated and 27% with 1 dose...Wayland said:
I just ran the vaccination numbers for Wake County and it looks like Wake is already at 66% of adults vaccinated.
Call Cooper and lift all our mandates in Wake!!
Wake is at 557,166 1 dose and 453,603 complete. Assuming the rough number of 24% of the population are minors based on census data, that puts wake at about 2/3rds one dosed adults.
If only Wake (or the Triangle) could get lifted for hitting the benchmark. I was looking at some of ther other numbers statewide, and ohhhh boy.... We are not getting 66% 18+ statewide.
I do believe the J&J vaccine pause did a lot of damage to the overall campaign. It put a lot more doubt into people who were on the fence or already prone to avoiding the vaccines. It pushed many of the people who were on the fence, off the fence.
Mormad said:packgrad said:WPNfamily said:Daviewolf83 said:Definitely is bad. We have had a couple of team members out due to the entire family having Covid and one of the groups I work has an employee that passed away last week.IseWolf22 said:
Things continue to look bad in India. It looks like I have 5 team members out this week with Covid. A lot of fear as well. A lot live in densly populated multi-generational homes with their parents
Hearing the same from guys who can't work due to family having Covid.
One interesting thing is that he said the news they would read about the US has made the fear and anxiety worse.
I believe that. I think we would have had a fraction of the hospitalizations without the anxiety producing panic porn from the media.
Panic porn. That's excellent. I hope you don't mind if i steal that and use it. Love it.
Haha. Not mine. I stole and use often! Cheers!
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If you have an hour, I highly recommend watching the following YouTube interview with Dr. Monica Gandhi - a highly regarded infectious disease doctor out of San Francisco. She discusses the situation in India and how the US can help (we can), the need to fully open schools in the Fall, the masking of kids in school in the Fall (not necessary), the bad public messaging on the part of President Biden (his constant mask wearing), the influence of the teacher's union on CDC policies that went against their own scientific data, the need to wear a mask outside (vaccinated and unvaccinated do not need masks), the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines, and how vaccines are the best way to end the pandemic.
Agreed. We need to increase accessibility and meet people where they are. We need some creative solutions to get shots to people who are willing to receive it, but aren't willing to go out and get it. Whether that will be work places, PCP offices, or even mobile vaccination programs to take it directly to their homes, we need something extra in order to boost those rates.Daviewolf83 said:I think until more universities require it, businesses require it of their employees, and events require people to be vaccinated to attend, I think we will hit a plateau in the 50-60% range. It does look like the more vulnerable populations will be over 70%, but the younger ages are going to be really tough to get to those levels at this current pace.PackPA2015 said:Yeah... I am not real optimistic about it either. That was my biggest worry when they finally announced that as the goal. We are starting to hit that plateau of vaccination willingness it seems.Wayland said:PackPA2015 said:Lucky ducks! My county is at 23% fully vaccinated and 27% with 1 dose...Wayland said:
I just ran the vaccination numbers for Wake County and it looks like Wake is already at 66% of adults vaccinated.
Call Cooper and lift all our mandates in Wake!!
Wake is at 557,166 1 dose and 453,603 complete. Assuming the rough number of 24% of the population are minors based on census data, that puts wake at about 2/3rds one dosed adults.
If only Wake (or the Triangle) could get lifted for hitting the benchmark. I was looking at some of ther other numbers statewide, and ohhhh boy.... We are not getting 66% 18+ statewide.
I do believe the J&J vaccine pause did a lot of damage to the overall campaign. It put a lot more doubt into people who were on the fence or already prone to avoiding the vaccines. It pushed many of the people who were on the fence, off the fence.
Article about next steps towards vaccinations
- I know they just came up with a text line where people can text to find out where they can get a vaccine close to themPackPA2015 said:Agreed. We need to increase accessibility and meet people where they are. We need some creative solutions to get shots to people who are willing to receive it, but aren't willing to go out and get it. Whether that will be work places, PCP offices, or even mobile vaccination programs to take it directly to their homes, we need something extra in order to boost those rates.Daviewolf83 said:
I think until more universities require it, businesses require it of their employees, and events require people to be vaccinated to attend, I think we will hit a plateau in the 50-60% range. It does look like the more vulnerable populations will be over 70%, but the younger ages are going to be really tough to get to those levels at this current pace.
I do believe the J&J vaccine pause did a lot of damage to the overall campaign. It put a lot more doubt into people who were on the fence or already prone to avoiding the vaccines. It pushed many of the people who were on the fence, off the fence.
Article about next steps towards vaccinations
- I heard something from Biden that they've partnered with 40k pharmacies, they're partnering with community health centers, and PCPs to provide the vaccine
- I have seen StarMed here in Charlotte do pop-ups at breweries
They really need to get some set up at Nascar races!
All great ideas. Thanks for sharing!statefan91 said:- I know they just came up with a text line where people can text to find out where they can get a vaccine close to themPackPA2015 said:Agreed. We need to increase accessibility and meet people where they are. We need some creative solutions to get shots to people who are willing to receive it, but aren't willing to go out and get it. Whether that will be work places, PCP offices, or even mobile vaccination programs to take it directly to their homes, we need something extra in order to boost those rates.Daviewolf83 said:
I think until more universities require it, businesses require it of their employees, and events require people to be vaccinated to attend, I think we will hit a plateau in the 50-60% range. It does look like the more vulnerable populations will be over 70%, but the younger ages are going to be really tough to get to those levels at this current pace.
I do believe the J&J vaccine pause did a lot of damage to the overall campaign. It put a lot more doubt into people who were on the fence or already prone to avoiding the vaccines. It pushed many of the people who were on the fence, off the fence.
Article about next steps towards vaccinations
- I heard something from Biden that they've partnered with 40k pharmacies, they're partnering with community health centers, and PCPs to provide the vaccine
- I have seen StarMed here in Charlotte do pop-ups at breweries
They really need to get some set up at Nascar races!
But the great thing about those other areas is that they don't care what Dictator Cooper says, life is going on as normal. Walked into a gas station/market this morning, seven customers and two employees, not a mask in sight.Wayland said:PackPA2015 said:Lucky ducks! My county is at 23% fully vaccinated and 27% with 1 dose...Wayland said:
I just ran the vaccination numbers for Wake County and it looks like Wake is already at 66% of adults vaccinated.
Call Cooper and lift all our mandates in Wake!!
Wake is at 557,166 1 dose and 453,603 complete. Assuming the rough number of 24% of the population are minors based on census data, that puts wake at about 2/3rds one dosed adults.
If only Wake (or the Triangle) could get lifted for hitting the benchmark. I was looking at some of ther other numbers statewide, and ohhhh boy.... We are not getting 66% 18+ statewide.
Honestly if you're going to have a vaccine goal to lift all restrictions should we not have set it just for the older population? I wonder what the % of death is in this state under 65?
82% of deaths are 65 and up. That is 16% of the population in NC.ncsualum05 said:
Honestly if you're going to have a vaccine goal to lift all restrictions should we not have set it just for the older population? I wonder what the % of death is in this state under 65?
14% 50-64.
Oldsouljer said:But the great thing about those other areas is that they don't care what Dictator Cooper says, life is going on as normal. Walked into a gas station/market this morning, seven customers and two employees, not a mask in sight.Wayland said:PackPA2015 said:Lucky ducks! My county is at 23% fully vaccinated and 27% with 1 dose...Wayland said:
I just ran the vaccination numbers for Wake County and it looks like Wake is already at 66% of adults vaccinated.
Call Cooper and lift all our mandates in Wake!!
Wake is at 557,166 1 dose and 453,603 complete. Assuming the rough number of 24% of the population are minors based on census data, that puts wake at about 2/3rds one dosed adults.
If only Wake (or the Triangle) could get lifted for hitting the benchmark. I was looking at some of ther other numbers statewide, and ohhhh boy.... We are not getting 66% 18+ statewide.
Sounds like the exact same story my wife told from the weekend.
So, I mean, if the more urban counties have hit the goal and the rest of the counties have already moved on at this point. Let's open up!!
By all means continue to work through PCPs or community groups to encourage vaxxing (without shaming, especially in the 50+ crowd).
But time for us all to go back to normal.
Wayland said:Oldsouljer said:But the great thing about those other areas is that they don't care what Dictator Cooper says, life is going on as normal. Walked into a gas station/market this morning, seven customers and two employees, not a mask in sight.Wayland said:PackPA2015 said:Lucky ducks! My county is at 23% fully vaccinated and 27% with 1 dose...Wayland said:
I just ran the vaccination numbers for Wake County and it looks like Wake is already at 66% of adults vaccinated.
Call Cooper and lift all our mandates in Wake!!
Wake is at 557,166 1 dose and 453,603 complete. Assuming the rough number of 24% of the population are minors based on census data, that puts wake at about 2/3rds one dosed adults.
If only Wake (or the Triangle) could get lifted for hitting the benchmark. I was looking at some of ther other numbers statewide, and ohhhh boy.... We are not getting 66% 18+ statewide.
Sounds like the exact same story my wife told from the weekend.
So, I mean, if the more urban counties have hit the goal and the rest of the counties have already moved on at this point. Let's open up!!
By all means continue to work through PCPs or community groups to encourage vaxxing (without shaming, especially in the 50+ crowd).
But time for us all to go back to normal.
We need this type of civil disobedience. No one should be following the dictates of der Furher Cooper. This is so far beyond ridiculous. Remember the "just two weeks to flatten the curve"?
These restrictions are unconstitutional, and no governor should even have the power to do what these tyrant governors are doing. What ever happened to the idea of freedom? For ~250 years of American history, we don't shut down the country every 5 years when a little more serious flu comes along.
Anyone who is still afraid of this boogeyman virus can stay in their house wearing 3 masks watching King Fauci on CNN and take 10 vaccines. But the rest of us should be able to live our lives. And that won't harm anyone - because those who are concerned can self-isolate and should supposedly be immune from their injections.
"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
A huge part of this was so they could pull off the "state of emergency" election law changes outside of the normal lawful channels... it was an orchestrated strategy... just go look back at the specific states again.GuerrillaPack said:
We need this type of civil disobedience. No one should be following the dictates of der Furher Cooper. This is so far beyond ridiculous. Remember the "just two weeks to flatten the curve"?
These restrictions are unconstitutional, and no governor should even have the power to do what these tyrant governors are doing. What ever happened to the idea of freedom? For ~250 years of American history, we don't shut down the country every 5 years when a little more serious flu comes along.
Anyone who is still afraid of this boogeyman virus can stay in their house wearing 3 masks watching King Fauci on CNN and take 10 vaccines. But the rest of us should be able to live our lives. And that won't harm anyone - because those who are concerned can self-isolate and should supposedly be immune from their injections.
I stopped wearing masks all together now. When people say some thing I tell them I am now 30 days post vax and have had Covid. So far no one has wanted to argue which is nice because I don't have it in me. I am polite about it but also firm.
Daviewolf83 said:
If you have an hour, I highly recommend watching the following YouTube interview with Dr. Monica Gandhi - a highly regarded infectious disease doctor out of San Francisco. She discusses the situation in India and how the US can help (we can), the need to fully open schools in the Fall, the masking of kids in school in the Fall (not necessary), the bad public messaging on the part of President Biden (his constant mask wearing), the influence of the teacher's union on CDC policies that went against their own scientific data, the need to wear a mask outside (vaccinated and unvaccinated do not need masks), the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines, and how vaccines are the best way to end the pandemic.
This was very good. I enjoy listening to them. I like that they admit what they have been wrong about. The statement that bad info has come from both sides of the political spectrum was nice to hear someone admit. The parts on the current CDC messaging was spot on. Patent rights when the government foot the bill is a very thought provoking discussion. I really can see both sides to not sharing the patent and sharing the patent.
Great listen. Thanks for sharing.
Im getting my second dose on Friday. I know Cooper's benchmark is 66% of adults and I am willing to continue until June, but the mask is going away around that time no matter what Cooper decides to do. I have been compliant since the original mandates came down. I waited my turn in group 5 for the vaccine and received it through Wake county. In my view, Ive done my part. If others are still unwilling come June, thats on them.Wayland said:Oldsouljer said:But the great thing about those other areas is that they don't care what Dictator Cooper says, life is going on as normal. Walked into a gas station/market this morning, seven customers and two employees, not a mask in sight.Wayland said:PackPA2015 said:Lucky ducks! My county is at 23% fully vaccinated and 27% with 1 dose...Wayland said:
I just ran the vaccination numbers for Wake County and it looks like Wake is already at 66% of adults vaccinated.
Call Cooper and lift all our mandates in Wake!!
Wake is at 557,166 1 dose and 453,603 complete. Assuming the rough number of 24% of the population are minors based on census data, that puts wake at about 2/3rds one dosed adults.
If only Wake (or the Triangle) could get lifted for hitting the benchmark. I was looking at some of ther other numbers statewide, and ohhhh boy.... We are not getting 66% 18+ statewide.
Sounds like the exact same story my wife told from the weekend.
So, I mean, if the more urban counties have hit the goal and the rest of the counties have already moved on at this point. Let's open up!!
By all means continue to work through PCPs or community groups to encourage vaxxing (without shaming, especially in the 50+ crowd).
But time for us all to go back to normal.
NC finally getting around to updating the trash data that they have provided the CDC for months. Now while the curve looks more accurate now, NC data still lags about 4 months behind all the rest of the states.
CDC is still applying a good amount of weighting going all the way back to October.
CDC is still applying a good amount of weighting going all the way back to October.
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NC no longer requires kids involved in outdoor sports to wear a mask. Hopefully, they will stick to this policy and not follow the current advice of the CDC. By the way, the Twitter thread I linked to below is from one of the authors of the study out of Wisconsin, showing kids can safely return to in-person learning. If you read her entire thread, she links to numerous studies that show it is safe to play sports outdoors without masks.
Link to Wisconsin study: Details of COVID-19 Disease Mitigation Strategies in 17 K-12 Schools in Wood County, Wisconsin
Link to Wisconsin study: Details of COVID-19 Disease Mitigation Strategies in 17 K-12 Schools in Wood County, Wisconsin
Our @CDCDirector proposes the US should diverge from the rest of the world & @WHO guidelines & have children wear masks outdoors while playing contact sports like soccer.
— Tracy Høeg, MD, PhD (@TracyBethHoeg) May 5, 2021
Available scientific evidence indicates this will not help control the pandemic, but will be harmful. See 🧵 https://t.co/v8uiXhZG7G
Daviewolf83 said:
NC no longer requires kids involved in outdoor sports to wear a mask. Hopefully, they will stick to this policy and not follow the current advice of the CDC. By the way, the Twitter thread I linked to below is from one of the authors of the study out of Wisconsin, showing kids can safely return to in-person learning. If you read her entire thread, she links to numerous studies that show it is safe to play sports outdoors without masks.
Link to Wisconsin study: Details of COVID-19 Disease Mitigation Strategies in 17 K-12 Schools in Wood County, WisconsinOur @CDCDirector proposes the US should diverge from the rest of the world & @WHO guidelines & have children wear masks outdoors while playing contact sports like soccer.
— Tracy Høeg, MD, PhD (@TracyBethHoeg) May 5, 2021
Available scientific evidence indicates this will not help control the pandemic, but will be harmful. See 🧵 https://t.co/v8uiXhZG7G
Unfortunately this was not an accidental slip.
It is a canned answer/talking point about masking youth soccer players outside. She said almost the exact same thing when responding to camp rules criticism and again talked about masking youth soccer outside during the White House COVID-19 Response Team briefing later this morning.
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Plus, she and the Elf say all of these things without providing any references to specific scientific studies. Add to this the fiasco the CDC oversaw for the school reopening guidelines. You know the ones I am talking about - the ones that said children had to remain at least six feet apart and the guidelines they established around community spread meant most schools could not reopen. These are the same reopening guidelines that contained "exact wording" from the American Teachers Federation. The NY Post has obtained and published the emails between the teachers union and the CDC and the wording used in the guidelines is contained in these emails. While it is responsible for them to consult with school stakeholders, it is not okay for them to ignore their own scientific studies and issue guidelines that do not follow these studies. At this point, it is political and not based on science.Wayland said:Daviewolf83 said:
NC no longer requires kids involved in outdoor sports to wear a mask. Hopefully, they will stick to this policy and not follow the current advice of the CDC. By the way, the Twitter thread I linked to below is from one of the authors of the study out of Wisconsin, showing kids can safely return to in-person learning. If you read her entire thread, she links to numerous studies that show it is safe to play sports outdoors without masks.
Link to Wisconsin study: Details of COVID-19 Disease Mitigation Strategies in 17 K-12 Schools in Wood County, WisconsinOur @CDCDirector proposes the US should diverge from the rest of the world & @WHO guidelines & have children wear masks outdoors while playing contact sports like soccer.
— Tracy Høeg, MD, PhD (@TracyBethHoeg) May 5, 2021
Available scientific evidence indicates this will not help control the pandemic, but will be harmful. See 🧵 https://t.co/v8uiXhZG7G
Unfortunately this was not an accidental slip.
It is a canned answer/talking point about masking youth soccer players outside. She said almost the exact same thing when responding to camp rules criticism and again talked about masking youth soccer outside during the White House COVID-19 Response Team briefing later this morning.
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If you have some time to spend, I encourage you to read the article at the link below. It is a fascinating and extensively researched article on the potential origins of the SARS-Cov-2 virus. I encourage you to read this article with an open mind and to consider the arguments and case the author puts forward. They are very compelling and quite plausible.
I learned a lot about how viruses are studied and even manipulated in "gain of function" research. The article documents research that was being conducted at the Wuhan lab, using techniques developed by a leading Coronavirus researcher at UNC. The purpose of the research is to create new coronaviruses that are able to infect humans and other species more easily. This is done through the manipulation of the spike proteins in an effort that allows the viruses to more easily bind to the ACE2 receptors.
One thing from the article is very clear - many virologists have tried their best to dissuade people from investigating the work being done at the Wuhan Virology Lab and some have done so without revealing their connections to the work being done in the lab and connections to the "gain of function" research they were also conducting at the lab.
You can read the article at the following link:
Origin of Covid Following the Clues
I learned a lot about how viruses are studied and even manipulated in "gain of function" research. The article documents research that was being conducted at the Wuhan lab, using techniques developed by a leading Coronavirus researcher at UNC. The purpose of the research is to create new coronaviruses that are able to infect humans and other species more easily. This is done through the manipulation of the spike proteins in an effort that allows the viruses to more easily bind to the ACE2 receptors.
One thing from the article is very clear - many virologists have tried their best to dissuade people from investigating the work being done at the Wuhan Virology Lab and some have done so without revealing their connections to the work being done in the lab and connections to the "gain of function" research they were also conducting at the lab.
You can read the article at the following link:
Origin of Covid Following the Clues
I should've known UNC was behind this somehow.
Honestly, it's always been odd to me that the virus is fairly universally agreed to have originated in Wuhan, and it is known that the labs exist there working specifically on these types of viruses, but the immediate consensus was that it couldn't have come from the lab. I'm not a biologist, or scientist of any type, but I'm a big proponent of Occam's razor in all aspects of life, and that would tend to lead me to believe that there is a connection between the lab and the virus. It is unfortunate that the political nature of that inference has made it impossible for some to consider that as a possibility.
Honestly, it's always been odd to me that the virus is fairly universally agreed to have originated in Wuhan, and it is known that the labs exist there working specifically on these types of viruses, but the immediate consensus was that it couldn't have come from the lab. I'm not a biologist, or scientist of any type, but I'm a big proponent of Occam's razor in all aspects of life, and that would tend to lead me to believe that there is a connection between the lab and the virus. It is unfortunate that the political nature of that inference has made it impossible for some to consider that as a possibility.
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I have been aware of Dr.Baric for a couple of years and his expertise in Coronaviruses. I was not aware of his work in "gain of function" work. I thought this statement from the article was interesting:wilmwolf80 said:
I should've known UNC was behind this somehow.
Honestly, it's always been odd to me that the virus is fairly universally agreed to have originated in Wuhan, and it is known that the labs exist there working specifically on these types of viruses, but the immediate consensus was that it couldn't have come from the lab. I'm not a biologist, or scientist of any type, but I'm a big proponent of Occam's razor in all aspects of life, and that would tend to lead me to believe that there is a connection between the lab and the virus. It is unfortunate that the political nature of that inference has made it impossible for some to consider that as a possibility.
"Dr. Baric had developed, and taught Dr. Shi, a general method for engineering bat coronaviruses to attack other species. The specific targets were human cells grown in cultures and humanized mice. These laboratory mice, a cheap and ethical stand-in for human subjects, are genetically engineered to carry the human version of a protein called ACE2 that studs the surface of cells that line the airways."
Here's the thing about the "gain of function" research that the article points out. It is considered important research - enabling scientist to fight future pandemics. For this reason, it is considered ethical research. However, it appears the research was not worth anything in the case of SARSv2 and it did not help us to stop the pandemic. Also, "gain of function" is supposed to be conducted in a level 4 lab, but it appears the research Dr. Shi was doing was done in a Level 2 lab. Also interesting that the Chinese have sealed all of Dr. Shi's research notes - why?
Yeah, there's a ton of questions there that we may never know the answers to. It would seem common sense that if researchers were working on the very type of virus that is responsible for the pandemic, and in particular trying to engineer viruses that specifically are good at infecting humans, which is what this virus is in the ways he points out, it shouldn't be in the realm of "conspiracy theory" to discuss the fact that these things may be related. If I get drunk, and wake up next to an empty bourbon bottle, it's reasonable to deduce that I wasn't drinking tequila.
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The Gatekeeper.
Homer Dumbarse.
StateFan2001 will probably respond to this because he isn't smart enough to understand how ignore works.
The Gatekeeper.
Homer Dumbarse.
StateFan2001 will probably respond to this because he isn't smart enough to understand how ignore works.
Daviewolf83 said:
If you have some time to spend, I encourage you to read the article at the link below. It is a fascinating and extensively researched article on the potential origins of the SARS-Cov-2 virus. I encourage you to read this article with an open mind and to consider the arguments and case the author puts forward. They are very compelling and quite plausible.
I learned a lot about how viruses are studied and even manipulated in "gain of function" research. The article documents research that was being conducted at the Wuhan lab, using techniques developed by a leading Coronavirus researcher at UNC. The purpose of the research is to create new coronaviruses that are able to infect humans and other species more easily. This is done through the manipulation of the spike proteins in an effort that allows the viruses to more easily bind to the ACE2 receptors.
One thing from the article is very clear - many virologists have tried their best to dissuade people from investigating the work being done at the Wuhan Virology Lab and some have done so without revealing their connections to the work being done in the lab and connections to the "gain of function" research they were also conducting at the lab.
You can read the article at the following link:
Origin of Covid Following the Clues
Wow that was really interesting. You don't need a tin foil hat to see the logic here. I have always thought this was man made. It's going to take a lot to change my mind.
Thanks as always for a great source of information!
I'm sure it would be a good thing to know if Covid-19 was actually an engineered escapee so that pressure, for what it would be worth, could placed on China to improve their containment practices and procedures. But frankly, I'm not really so concerned about that. Nature has consistently shown her ability to produce dangerous and contagious viruses and it's going to continue happen regardless of how Covid-19 came about. My concern is what we learn from our response to this pandemic and how we implement changes for the better in the form of some sort of national strategy. That ranges from how we as a governed nation initially respond to a reported outbreak to stockpiles of medical equipment and PPE to preestablished vaccine development rules and capabilities to improvements in financial aid programs, and so on.
There are really three questions here right?
1. Was COVID organically transmitted from animals to humans?
2. Did it escape from the Wuhan lab?
3. If it escaped, was it engineered?
I think there's a fair chance it escaped, but it's not random that the Wuhan lab that studies coronaviruses is located in Wuhan. China has a dense population of bats that carry coronaviruses, I've seen it said over 200 different types of corona.
Hard to parse when the lab studies coronaviruses because there are so many that occur naturally in China and Southeast Asia. It's a coincidence for sure but not a crazy coincidence like it would be if the virus originated near a lab in Denmark or somewhere that has no concentration of bat-borne coronaviruses.
1. Was COVID organically transmitted from animals to humans?
2. Did it escape from the Wuhan lab?
3. If it escaped, was it engineered?
I think there's a fair chance it escaped, but it's not random that the Wuhan lab that studies coronaviruses is located in Wuhan. China has a dense population of bats that carry coronaviruses, I've seen it said over 200 different types of corona.
Hard to parse when the lab studies coronaviruses because there are so many that occur naturally in China and Southeast Asia. It's a coincidence for sure but not a crazy coincidence like it would be if the virus originated near a lab in Denmark or somewhere that has no concentration of bat-borne coronaviruses.
Here is an article from March discussing the WHO-China press conference. The WHO thought the most likely theory at the time was that COVID was transmitted to an intermediary source/animal, then went to humans. The original source, bats, are no where near Wuhan, so not likely a direct transmission. The original SARS started in this same way from bats to wild game sold in the fresh markets. However, no intermediary animal for SARS 2 has been found as of yet. They did find the virus could be transmitted through frozen wild animals being shipped/traded to the Wuhan fresh market, but those frozen specimens had been handled by thousands of people, so who knows if that is original or stems from a later transmission. We all know that China is not exactly 100% trustworthy. I think the point the article makes about how this is part diplomacy and part epidemiology is spot on. We have to tread lightly with China or they will shut us out of all information, but we also need as much credible information as possible.
At the end of all of this, we need the correct information to prevent future pandemics regardless of whose "fault" it was.
Origins of COVID
At the end of all of this, we need the correct information to prevent future pandemics regardless of whose "fault" it was.
Origins of COVID
...and we need a coordinated federal/state response pandemic playbook. The minute we sniff a whiff of pandemic we pull the lever and get ahead of it.
We freestyled this thing more than career-prime Eminem.
We freestyled this thing more than career-prime Eminem.
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The article does a really good job of trying to address all three of your questions. On your last point, it is clear the Wuhan lab was not only studying the coronaviruses, they were actively working on "gain of function" activities with these viruses and it appears they may have done so using inappropriate safety protocols. From the researcher's own grant filing, we know the lab was engineering coronaviruses to be more virulent toward humans. The article does an excellent job in documenting this information. It sure would be helpful to know exactly what was being done in the experiments, but the Chines government has sealed (I prefer to say buried) this information.Civilized said:
There are really three questions here right?
1. Was COVID organically transmitted from animals to humans?
2. Did it escape from the Wuhan lab?
3. If it escaped, was it engineered?
I think there's a fair chance it escaped, but it's not random that the Wuhan lab that studies coronaviruses is located in Wuhan. China has a dense population of bats that carry coronaviruses, I've seen it said over 200 different types of corona.
Hard to parse when the lab studies coronaviruses because there are so many that occur naturally in China and Southeast Asia. It's a coincidence for sure but not a crazy coincidence like it would be if the virus originated near a lab in Denmark or somewhere that has no concentration of bat-borne coronaviruses.
I actually have no doubt the engineering of viruses is happening as well in US labs and other labs around the world. The fact that one of the leading coronavirus researchers and his lab is located only 30 minutes from my house does give me pause and we have to hope that all necessary safety protocols are in place and followed with this and other labs involved in this type of work. We have also seen very clearly that it does not take an accident 30 minutes from my house to ultimately affect mine and others lives in drastic ways. The speed by which a pathogen can multiple and infect millions of people in just a matter of a couple of months should be a wake-up call to all of us.
The article mentions some of the well know viral escapes from labs around the world, some of which I have read studies about in the past. Accidents happen, even when the best of safeguards are in place. When accidents do happen, it is important and necessary for there to be total transparency as to what happened and in this case, it definitely appears transparency has been lacking.
"The article mentions some of the well know viral escapes from labs around the world, some of which I have read studies about in the past. Accidents happen, even when the best of safeguards are in place. When accidents do happen, it is important and necessary for there to be total transparency as to what happened and in this case, it definitely appears transparency has been lacking."
Exactly. I don't care about assigning "blame" for Covid. But I care very much to know if pandemic level viruses are being created that can specifically target humans with no natural response, and if they are (which they appear to be based on the publicly available information cited in that article) are those creating them are doing so in a safe manner to prevent a possible pandemic causing escape scenario. Based on my own personal knowledge of safety standards in other industries in China, I lack confidence that the second part of my query can be guaranteed, and the fact that they have sealed those records would make me extremely, extremely suspicious that there is something in those records very relevant to our current pandemic. The fact that the former president came out and said that the virus came from a Chinese lab, and that a large number of people vehemently disagree with anything and everything he says, shouldn't impact the scientific process of actually determining the root source of the pandemic. All of the preparedness in the world won't help us the next time if a virus that specifically targets humans and is resistant to all known treatments happens to escape from a lab. Stockpile masks and ventilators all we want, but get to the truth here, regardless of where that leads.
Exactly. I don't care about assigning "blame" for Covid. But I care very much to know if pandemic level viruses are being created that can specifically target humans with no natural response, and if they are (which they appear to be based on the publicly available information cited in that article) are those creating them are doing so in a safe manner to prevent a possible pandemic causing escape scenario. Based on my own personal knowledge of safety standards in other industries in China, I lack confidence that the second part of my query can be guaranteed, and the fact that they have sealed those records would make me extremely, extremely suspicious that there is something in those records very relevant to our current pandemic. The fact that the former president came out and said that the virus came from a Chinese lab, and that a large number of people vehemently disagree with anything and everything he says, shouldn't impact the scientific process of actually determining the root source of the pandemic. All of the preparedness in the world won't help us the next time if a virus that specifically targets humans and is resistant to all known treatments happens to escape from a lab. Stockpile masks and ventilators all we want, but get to the truth here, regardless of where that leads.
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The Gatekeeper.
Homer Dumbarse.
StateFan2001 will probably respond to this because he isn't smart enough to understand how ignore works.
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