I sent it to him and he texted back with "Hahaha". Cleared it up pretty well for me. Then I come here and see what you wrote and it became crystal clear.

Daviewolf83 said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Daviewolf83 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

GP, you may be right but if those numbers were accurate, it would be front page news everywhere and it ain't. My brother actually works with a data collection group on the vaccines, he was part of one of the groups going through the info as the vaccines were in trial phases. I will send this to him for confirmation.

---

Before you bother your brother with this, you might want to read this article from Politifact regarding the article GP makes reference to:

European databased does not prove the Covid-19 vaccines are lethal

Much like the VAERS site I have mentioned before, the database is a site for collecting reports, but these reports are unverified and should not be used to make a final determination as to the safety of vaccines. In fact, the EudraVigilance database says it collects data for:

"suspected side effects ... but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine."

"Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use," EudraVigilance's website says. "Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine."

Until all reports are verified, it is "garbage in = garbage out"

---

I understand your clarification on the article but the same standards weren't used when counting Covid deaths. There was no distinguishing between with and of.

---

I will be more clear in my thoughts - If people are misusing these sites and the information contained in them to persuade others to not be vaccinated, they are only spreading garbage and should not be taken seriously.

---

And I agree with you on that. I just wish the same standards had been used, and used now, with the virus itself.

I've been vaccinated. Did it as early as I could as the facilities we work in required it. With that said, knowing what I know about the virus, and if we had treated it like we treated every other virus, I would have elected not to get it, same as I do the flu shot most years. I did it because it is so politicized and we already see government wanting vaccine passports and didn't want to deal with that unvaccinated. I don't think it's unreasonable for people not to want to receive this vaccine. I get that we need them to so as to release the government stranglehold on us as a society, but I understand the distrust and feeling they don't need to as they don't feel they're in danger. A seesaw of understanding... I want people to get vaccinated because I want everything wide open, but I get why some don't.

I understand your point, and for many people their feeling that they're not in danger is reasonable. But most people assume wrongly that they are healthier than they think they are and have no real clue what their risk truly is. So many of us live in simple denial or ignorance of our health. Most don't even know how obesity is defined. Many have no idea they're hypertensive. I'd bet there are millions of Americans who assume little risk and are frankly just ignorant. There is a large segment of the smoking population who still believe it doesn't increase their risk of lung cancer. So while i understand the freedom to not get vaccinated and I'm fine with people's individual choices, I'm not gonna pretend that many (if not most) who choose that path do so using a well reasoned, logical, and informed thought process.

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Daviewolf83 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

GP, you may be right but if those numbers were accurate, it would be front page news everywhere and it ain't. My brother actually works with a data collection group on the vaccines, he was part of one of the groups going through the info as the vaccines were in trial phases. I will send this to him for confirmation.

---

Before you bother your brother with this, you might want to read this article from Politifact regarding the article GP makes reference to:

European databased does not prove the Covid-19 vaccines are lethal

Much like the VAERS site I have mentioned before, the database is a site for collecting reports, but these reports are unverified and should not be used to make a final determination as to the safety of vaccines. In fact, the EudraVigilance database says it collects data for:

"suspected side effects ... but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine."

"Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use," EudraVigilance's website says. "Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine."

Until all reports are verified, it is "garbage in = garbage out"

---

But when the government or a doctor "suspects" a person "has covid" (as many of the "covid cases" are determined), then that is to be considered a "concrete fact" that cannot be questioned?

And who must "verify" the cause of the side effects, in order for you to trust it? Pfizer or the other vaccine manufacturers?

This is the crux of the issue, for people like myself ("conspiracy realists")....we don't trust the government and these big powerful corporations and the Establishment, and for easily discernible and very good reasons. I place far more trust in the common person reporting these side effects, to know and be truthful about what caused them.

The true garbage comes from the government, Big Pharma, Big Tech, and other organs of the Establishment. They have zero credibility, and cannot be trusted at all in regards to virtually any issue of importance.

---

I really do enjoy your posts, my brutha. There is real truth hidden in your words, buddy. And, yet, there are holes in your argument because you seem so blinded by your conspiracy realism that you are imho so very wrong about truths you deem false. It's not worth arguing with you because you are, of all of us, the most rigid. But your arguments, when dissected and understood, offer insight that i appreciate. Keeps me thinking.

Mormad said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Daviewolf83 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

GP, you may be right but if those numbers were accurate, it would be front page news everywhere and it ain't. My brother actually works with a data collection group on the vaccines, he was part of one of the groups going through the info as the vaccines were in trial phases. I will send this to him for confirmation.

---

Before you bother your brother with this, you might want to read this article from Politifact regarding the article GP makes reference to:

European databased does not prove the Covid-19 vaccines are lethal

Much like the VAERS site I have mentioned before, the database is a site for collecting reports, but these reports are unverified and should not be used to make a final determination as to the safety of vaccines. In fact, the EudraVigilance database says it collects data for:

"suspected side effects ... but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine."

"Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use," EudraVigilance's website says. "Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine."

Until all reports are verified, it is "garbage in = garbage out"

---

But when the government or a doctor "suspects" a person "has covid" (as many of the "covid cases" are determined), then that is to be considered a "concrete fact" that cannot be questioned?

And who must "verify" the cause of the side effects, in order for you to trust it? Pfizer or the other vaccine manufacturers?

This is the crux of the issue, for people like myself ("conspiracy realists")....we don't trust the government and these big powerful corporations and the Establishment, and for easily discernible and very good reasons. I place far more trust in the common person reporting these side effects, to know and be truthful about what caused them.

The true garbage comes from the government, Big Pharma, Big Tech, and other organs of the Establishment. They have zero credibility, and cannot be trusted at all in regards to virtually any issue of importance.

---

I really do enjoy your posts, my brutha. There is real truth hidden in your words, buddy. And, yet, there are holes in your argument because you seem so blinded by your conspiracy realism that you are imho so very wrong about truths you deem false. It's not worth arguing with you because you are, of all of us, the most rigid. But your arguments, when dissected and understood, offer insight that i appreciate. Keeps me thinking.

---

I appreciate your respectful debate/discussion. We will all find disagreements, because no two people have the same beliefs on all issues. But we can find areas of agreement and learn from each other - because none of us (myself included) are 100% right on everything. Yes, I guess I come across as very rigid and unwavering... but I'm trying my best to always be respectful and civil - and to keep an open mind. We should all passionately stand for what we believe, but at the same time keep an open mind - in case we are wrong and/or can learn something.

Daviewolf83 said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Mormad said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Daviewolf83 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

GP, you may be right but if those numbers were accurate, it would be front page news everywhere and it ain't. My brother actually works with a data collection group on the vaccines, he was part of one of the groups going through the info as the vaccines were in trial phases. I will send this to him for confirmation.

---

Before you bother your brother with this, you might want to read this article from Politifact regarding the article GP makes reference to:

European databased does not prove the Covid-19 vaccines are lethal

Much like the VAERS site I have mentioned before, the database is a site for collecting reports, but these reports are unverified and should not be used to make a final determination as to the safety of vaccines. In fact, the EudraVigilance database says it collects data for:

"suspected side effects ... but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine."

"Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use," EudraVigilance's website says. "Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine."

Until all reports are verified, it is "garbage in = garbage out"

---

But when the government or a doctor "suspects" a person "has covid" (as many of the "covid cases" are determined), then that is to be considered a "concrete fact" that cannot be questioned?

And who must "verify" the cause of the side effects, in order for you to trust it? Pfizer or the other vaccine manufacturers?

This is the crux of the issue, for people like myself ("conspiracy realists")....we don't trust the government and these big powerful corporations and the Establishment, and for easily discernible and very good reasons. I place far more trust in the common person reporting these side effects, to know and be truthful about what caused them.

The true garbage comes from the government, Big Pharma, Big Tech, and other organs of the Establishment. They have zero credibility, and cannot be trusted at all in regards to virtually any issue of importance.

---

I really do enjoy your posts, my brutha. There is real truth hidden in your words, buddy. And, yet, there are holes in your argument because you seem so blinded by your conspiracy realism that you are imho so very wrong about truths you deem false. It's not worth arguing with you because you are, of all of us, the most rigid. But your arguments, when dissected and understood, offer insight that i appreciate. Keeps me thinking.

---

I appreciate your respectful debate/discussion. We will all find disagreements, because no two people have the same beliefs on all issues. But we can find areas of agreement and learn from each other - because none of us (myself included) are 100% right on everything. Yes, I guess I come across as very rigid and unwavering... but I'm trying my best to always be respectful and civil - and to keep an open mind. We should all passionately stand for what we believe, but at the same time keep an open mind - in case we are wrong and/or can learn something.

---

You have ever right to post what you believe and I appreciate the opportunity to post back with my arguments. There are too many people on social media, on university campuses, and in the press who are silencing opposing views and this is not the American system. You are free to post what you chose and as long as you keep it civil and do not threaten anyone, you have every right to post your beliefs. The right to free speech is something we should all cherish and it must never be taken away.

I hope you have a great weekend.

---

This type of discourse is why I participate more in the WC than the other boards. I subscribe and am a member because I want to know about butter on someone's pants during recruiting, the wonderful videos James puts together after football games analyzing plays, and Steve having the most tooth of any recruiting guru I've followed. The ability to not have the group think that is pervasive on the sports boards, and arguably encouraged by James (his house his rules) though, is why I enjoy conversations here more. We don't have to agree. I appreciate the discussion here.

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Mormad said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Daviewolf83 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

GP, you may be right but if those numbers were accurate, it would be front page news everywhere and it ain't. My brother actually works with a data collection group on the vaccines, he was part of one of the groups going through the info as the vaccines were in trial phases. I will send this to him for confirmation.

---

Before you bother your brother with this, you might want to read this article from Politifact regarding the article GP makes reference to:

European databased does not prove the Covid-19 vaccines are lethal

Much like the VAERS site I have mentioned before, the database is a site for collecting reports, but these reports are unverified and should not be used to make a final determination as to the safety of vaccines. In fact, the EudraVigilance database says it collects data for:

"suspected side effects ... but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine."

"Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use," EudraVigilance's website says. "Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine."

Until all reports are verified, it is "garbage in = garbage out"

---

But when the government or a doctor "suspects" a person "has covid" (as many of the "covid cases" are determined), then that is to be considered a "concrete fact" that cannot be questioned?

And who must "verify" the cause of the side effects, in order for you to trust it? Pfizer or the other vaccine manufacturers?

This is the crux of the issue, for people like myself ("conspiracy realists")....we don't trust the government and these big powerful corporations and the Establishment, and for easily discernible and very good reasons. I place far more trust in the common person reporting these side effects, to know and be truthful about what caused them.

The true garbage comes from the government, Big Pharma, Big Tech, and other organs of the Establishment. They have zero credibility, and cannot be trusted at all in regards to virtually any issue of importance.

---

I really do enjoy your posts, my brutha. There is real truth hidden in your words, buddy. And, yet, there are holes in your argument because you seem so blinded by your conspiracy realism that you are imho so very wrong about truths you deem false. It's not worth arguing with you because you are, of all of us, the most rigid. But your arguments, when dissected and understood, offer insight that i appreciate. Keeps me thinking.

---

I appreciate your respectful debate/discussion. We will all find disagreements, because no two people have the same beliefs on all issues. But we can find areas of agreement and learn from each other - because none of us (myself included) are 100% right on everything. Yes, I guess I come across as very rigid and unwavering... but I'm trying my best to always be respectful and civil - and to keep an open mind. We should all passionately stand for what we believe, but at the same time keep an open mind - in case we are wrong and/or can learn something.

---

GP as you know your views draw a lot of attention and you sometimes take a lot of flak for them, and yet stay civil.

I've said this before but I dig your gumption. Your views are thought provoking and respectfully conveyed. Keep fighting the good fight brother.

It's a love fest up here tonight!

GuerrillaPack said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

Alright, now we are up to two cases out of the millions vaccinated. This is still less than the incidence of Guillain-Barre in the general population. Where have you seen it described as "widespread"?

---

It's more than two cases of paralysis. I've just shown two examples. And I didn't say/mean that cases of paralysis were widespread. What I'm saying is that negative side effects of all kinds are widespread.

---

What specific side effects are widespread?

Please, don't label the natural immune response symptoms - low grade fever, muscle aches, fatigue, etc. - as side effects.

To hit on this point one more time, we see around 3000-6000 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome in the US every year due to various bacterial and viral illnesses. These did not increase in 2020 due to COVID and have not increased so far in 2021 due to vaccination.

---

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/eu-vaccine-injury-reporting-eudravigilance-330000-adverse-events-covid-vaccines/

Quote:

---

EU Vaccine Injury Reporting System Shows More Than 330,000 Adverse Events Following Covid Vaccines

...

According to the report, injury and death report totals for each vaccine were:

- Pfizer-BioNTech: 4,293 deaths and 144,607 injuries
- Moderna: 2,094 deaths and 15,979 injuries
- AstraZeneca: 1,360 deaths and 169,386 injuries
- Johnson & Johnson (Janssen): 19 deaths and 246 injuries

Cardiac and blood/lymphatic disorders were among the most commonly reported injuries.

---

---

I appreciate you sharing this. I took the weekend off from the boards, so that is why I have not responded yet.

So, as others have said, this is a site where basically anyone with a computer and keyboard can go in and report a "suspected" adverse effect which makes it much less reliable from the jump.

Then, you click on Moderna vaccine listing (1st one on the list) and it has suspected vaccine adverse effects in children ages zero to seventeen years old. Those children are not even eligible for the vaccine yet, so unless it was a breastfeeding issue (which has been proven safe here in the U.S. and actually beneficial in passing antibodies to baby), then I do not see anyway possible this could occur. So, if we question COVID cases data, then why would we not question data that is reported in folks who we know have not received the vaccine, yet?

No, dude don't you get it???

When a dude in his 80s has covid and dies of pneumonia it's purely coincidental because people don't die of this typical coronavirus cold. It's completely reported for hysterical reasons by health care professionals who btw have no motivation to do so such that the government and media, who has no relation to the health care professionals, can scare the sheep and keep us in our pens!

These self reported outcomes are in no way biased and can never ever be hysterical in any way, and when a 80something develops heart disease or pneumonia a month after a vaccine (as described in the comments in the link), which are health issues almost NEVER encountered in such individuals, there is absolutely no coincidental association and the causal relationship between vaccine and disease is absolute fact. I mean, the patient and family said so!

Come on, dude, get with the program. People get sick with covid... Coincidence. People get sick after a vax... Can be no coincidence. And when a 99 yo feels worse after the shot then he did with a mild covid case? OMG, complete shocker that could never ever be predicted! Oh the HORROR that some provider suggest the old dude get the vax!!

Sorry, I'm a little salty today lol.

There is no doubt that numbers in countries like India and others have been massively manipulated. That's why the whole freaking out over how the US is doing versus other countries that was supposedly proof of our mismanagement was really stupid.

PackPA2015 said:

---

Salt away my friend!

---

Im on call today. You know how that goes!

I just ran the vaccination numbers for Wake County and it looks like Wake is already at 66% of adults vaccinated.

Call Cooper and lift all our mandates in Wake!!

Wake is at 557,166 1 dose and 453,603 complete. Assuming the rough number of 24% of the population are minors based on census data, that puts wake at about 2/3rds one dosed adults.