Coronavirus

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Daviewolf83
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In reply to bigeric • 3:57p, 4/28/21
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bigeric said:
Just a thought.
Are T-cells & memory B cells passed to the recipient of a blood transfusion?
I do not believe so, but PackPA or Mormad could provide a more definitive answer. From what I have read, you can sample for antibodies in the blood, but to sample for T-cells and memory B-cells, you have to sample the lymphatic system, since this is where these cells are produced. As such, I am not sure is it possible to transfuse the T and B-Cells.

I found this on the web regarding T and B-Cells and the lymphatic system:

"Lymph organs include the bone marrow, lymph nodes, spleen, and thymus. Bone marrow contains tissue that produces lymphocytes. B-lymphocytes (B-cells) mature in the bone marrow. T-lymphocytes (T-cells) mature in the thymus gland. Other blood cells such as monocytes and leukocytes are produced in the bone marrow. Lymph nodes are areas of concentrated lymphocytes and macrophages along the lymphatic veins. The spleen is similar to the lymph node except that it is larger and filled with blood. The spleen serves as a reservoir for blood, and filters or purifies the blood and lymph fluid that flows through it. If the spleen is damaged or removed, the individual is more susceptible to infections. The thymus secretes a hormone, thymosin, that causes pre-T-cells to mature (in the thymus) into T-cells."

I am interested to get a definitive answer as well. Would be nice if the could be transferred, but not optimistic.
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PackPA2015
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In reply to Daviewolf83 • 5:00p, 4/28/21
Daviewolf83 said:
bigeric said:
Just a thought.
Are T-cells & memory B cells passed to the recipient of a blood transfusion?
I do not believe so, but PackPA or Mormad could provide a more definitive answer. From what I have read, you can sample for antibodies in the blood, but to sample for T-cells and memory B-cells, you have to sample the lymphatic system, since this is where these cells are produced. As such, I am not sure is it possible to transfuse the T and B-Cells.

I found this on the web regarding T and B-Cells and the lymphatic system:

"Lymph organs include the bone marrow, lymph nodes, spleen, and thymus. Bone marrow contains tissue that produces lymphocytes. B-lymphocytes (B-cells) mature in the bone marrow. T-lymphocytes (T-cells) mature in the thymus gland. Other blood cells such as monocytes and leukocytes are produced in the bone marrow. Lymph nodes are areas of concentrated lymphocytes and macrophages along the lymphatic veins. The spleen is similar to the lymph node except that it is larger and filled with blood. The spleen serves as a reservoir for blood, and filters or purifies the blood and lymph fluid that flows through it. If the spleen is damaged or removed, the individual is more susceptible to infections. The thymus secretes a hormone, thymosin, that causes pre-T-cells to mature (in the thymus) into T-cells."

I am interested to get a definitive answer as well. Would be nice if the could be transferred, but not optimistic.
I believe this is correct. Blood transfusion would include red cells, hemoglobin, platelets, etc., but the T-cells would be within the bone marrow itself so would not be transfused.
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Mormad
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6:16p, 4/28/21
Whatever immunity that would be in the blood at the time of transfusion wouldn't be enough to make a difference.
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PackMom
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8:30p, 4/28/21
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packgrad
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10:29p, 4/28/21
When the 6' apart theater cameras turn off...


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Daviewolf83
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11:26p, 4/28/21
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Looks like doctors understand messaging better than politicians. The majority of members of Congress have been vaccinated and the CDC says it is okay for vaccinated people to meet together inside and not have to social distance or wear a mask. This is not just bad theater - it is an opportunity lost.

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TheStorm
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6:59a, 4/29/21
I was just sitting around thinking last night how this past 14+ months has been about the most void of any sickness whatsoever for me personally that I can remember... I don't usually get the flu anyway, but I haven't had a sniffle of any kind throughout this entire period... no sinus or allergy issues (and no, I don't wear a mask outside before anyone starts with any of that nonsense )... not even the pre-requisite "stomach bug" (although my wife and I both did get food poisoning from a barbecue place that a client "recommended" to me).

My wife usually only has to look in the direction of someone that thinks they might be getting sick, for her to come down with stuff - but she's been clean throughout this entire time as well...

Kinda weird, really.
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PackPA2015
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8:14a, 4/29/21
I saw a post from a distant friend on Facebook this morning saying that only 2 of his 20 medical providers (primary and specialists) recommended he get the COVID vaccine when asked. I do not know his medical history thoroughly, so cannot speak to that, but this concerned me. Why would medical providers that see patients with COVID on a daily basis not recommend the vaccine? There are no contraindications at this moment other than a history of PEG allergy to receive it.

So, my question is, have any of you had a medical provider that recommended you not get the vaccine and if so, what was their specific reasoning? Just interested in what others are hearing.
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PackMom
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In reply to PackPA2015 • 8:33a, 4/29/21
Did he say if they advised against it or if they were noncommittal? Maybe he already had it and that impacts their opinion?
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PackPA2015
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In reply to PackMom • 8:38a, 4/29/21
PackMom said:
Did he say if they advised against it or if they were noncommittal? Maybe he already had it and that impacts their opinion?
He said only 2 recommended it. The remaining 18 did not. He did mention in his post that he had not had COVID previously. I thought that was going to be the case a well when I first started reading his post. He did not mention any specific reasoning as to why the providers in his life had recommended against it.
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TheStorm
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In reply to PackPA2015 • 8:58a, 4/29/21
PackPA2015 said:
PackMom said:
Did he say if they advised against it or if they were noncommittal? Maybe he already had it and that impacts their opinion?
He said only 2 recommended it. The remaining 18 did not. He did mention in his post that he had not had COVID previously. I thought that was going to be the case a well when I first started reading his post. He did not mention any specific reasoning as to why the providers in his life had recommended against it.
Yeah, I'm not believing that... sounds like he was trying to yank your chain a little.
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statefan91
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In reply to PackPA2015 • 9:04a, 4/29/21
PackPA2015 said:
I saw a post from a distant friend on Facebook this morning saying that only 2 of his 20 medical providers (primary and specialists) recommended he get the COVID vaccine when asked. I do not know his medical history thoroughly, so cannot speak to that, but this concerned me. Why would medical providers that see patients with COVID on a daily basis not recommend the vaccine? There are no contraindications at this moment other than a history of PEG allergy to receive it.

So, my question is, have any of you had a medical provider that recommended you not get the vaccine and if so, what was their specific reasoning? Just interested in what others are hearing.
If the person has 20 medical providers I'm assuming there's much more going on for this person and that's why?
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PackPA2015
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In reply to statefan91 • 9:05a, 4/29/21
statefan91 said:
PackPA2015 said:
I saw a post from a distant friend on Facebook this morning saying that only 2 of his 20 medical providers (primary and specialists) recommended he get the COVID vaccine when asked. I do not know his medical history thoroughly, so cannot speak to that, but this concerned me. Why would medical providers that see patients with COVID on a daily basis not recommend the vaccine? There are no contraindications at this moment other than a history of PEG allergy to receive it.

So, my question is, have any of you had a medical provider that recommended you not get the vaccine and if so, what was their specific reasoning? Just interested in what others are hearing.
If the person has 20 medical providers I'm assuming there's much more going on for this person and that's why?
Perhaps, but for those people, the vaccine is recommended even more so as they are most at risk. I tend to believe he is either exaggerating or stretching the truth, but just wondered if there were other providers out there that felt differently than I about the vaccines.
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ncsualum05
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In reply to packgrad • 9:11a, 4/29/21
packgrad said:
When the 6' apart theater cameras turn off...


Noticed they restricted how many could attend. Were the halls of congress not packed during the Trump impeachment?
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Daviewolf83
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In reply to PackPA2015 • 9:36a, 4/29/21
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PackPA2015 said:
statefan91 said:
PackPA2015 said:
I saw a post from a distant friend on Facebook this morning saying that only 2 of his 20 medical providers (primary and specialists) recommended he get the COVID vaccine when asked. I do not know his medical history thoroughly, so cannot speak to that, but this concerned me. Why would medical providers that see patients with COVID on a daily basis not recommend the vaccine? There are no contraindications at this moment other than a history of PEG allergy to receive it.

So, my question is, have any of you had a medical provider that recommended you not get the vaccine and if so, what was their specific reasoning? Just interested in what others are hearing.
If the person has 20 medical providers I'm assuming there's much more going on for this person and that's why?
Perhaps, but for those people, the vaccine is recommended even more so as they are most at risk. I tend to believe he is either exaggerating or stretching the truth, but just wondered if there were other providers out there that felt differently than I about the vaccines.
I personally have not had any doctors not recommend getting vaccinated, but I have heard of a few nurses saying they will not get vaccinated. I really do not understand it - particularly ones who have worked with or seen the results of getting Covid. I have a close family member that works in a very large hospital in NC. I need to ask them if they have heard of any doctors not advising vaccination. They would be closer to hearing of this type of advice than I would.
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PackPA2015
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In reply to Daviewolf83 • 9:44a, 4/29/21
Daviewolf83 said:
PackPA2015 said:
statefan91 said:
PackPA2015 said:
I saw a post from a distant friend on Facebook this morning saying that only 2 of his 20 medical providers (primary and specialists) recommended he get the COVID vaccine when asked. I do not know his medical history thoroughly, so cannot speak to that, but this concerned me. Why would medical providers that see patients with COVID on a daily basis not recommend the vaccine? There are no contraindications at this moment other than a history of PEG allergy to receive it.

So, my question is, have any of you had a medical provider that recommended you not get the vaccine and if so, what was their specific reasoning? Just interested in what others are hearing.
If the person has 20 medical providers I'm assuming there's much more going on for this person and that's why?
Perhaps, but for those people, the vaccine is recommended even more so as they are most at risk. I tend to believe he is either exaggerating or stretching the truth, but just wondered if there were other providers out there that felt differently than I about the vaccines.
I personally have not had any doctors not recommend getting vaccinated, but I have heard of a few nurses saying they will not get vaccinated. I really do not understand it - particularly ones who have worked with or seen the results of getting Covid. I have a close family member that works in a very large hospital in NC. I need to ask them if they have heard of any doctors not advising vaccination. They would be closer to hearing of this type of advice than I would.
I definitely have heard nurses against it as well. I have the same thought. We have personally seen patients die or having long term side effects from this virus, why would we recommend against the vaccine?
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packgrad
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10:10a, 4/29/21
I find it credible that many doctors and nurses are concerned with the vaccine. I don't necessarily believe many are comfortable voicing those opinions. With the amount of political misinformation we have gotten from the cdc since this all started, it's easy for me to see why some might not trust the data. The vaccines have not gone through the customary vetting process. If we didn't live in such a hyperpoliticized vaccine world today (not even including everything else political) I wouldn't have gotten it.
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PackPA2015
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In reply to packgrad • 10:24a, 4/29/21
packgrad said:
I find it credible that many doctors and nurses are concerned with the vaccine. I don't necessarily believe many are comfortable voicing those opinions. With the amount of political misinformation we have gotten from the cdc since this all started, it's easy for me to see why some might not trust the data. The vaccines have not gone through the customary vetting process. If we didn't live in such a hyperpoliticized vaccine world today (not even including everything else political) I wouldn't have gotten it.
There's the thing. The CDC did not perform these studies and these vaccines were studied in the customary way, just at an expedited speed. They all went through the three phases of trials with thousands of participants involved in each. When the benefit is proven early on in studies without a large risk of side effects for rare diseases/cancers, we approve medications/treatments early all of the time. I have heard the concern about a "lack of long term data". However, we have long term studies on every molecule within each vaccine. We just do not have long term data on those in one syringe, but the long term risk from them being in the same syringe is extremely low, because we know how they react separately and with other molecules already.

I do totally agree that the politicization of the virus, the data associated with it, and in turn the vaccines has hurt with participation. However, providers are taught specifically to remove politics/personal biases out of it when reading a study or with the practice of medicine. That is why, if it is true, this bothers me tremendously.
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bigeric
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10:29a, 4/29/21
Do we not now have long term data, covering millions more of subjects than usually employed in the approval process? Just not the controlled environment.
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PackPA2015
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In reply to bigeric • 10:43a, 4/29/21
bigeric said:
Do we not now have long term data, covering millions more of subjects than usually employed in the approval process? Just not the controlled environment.
This is correct depending on how you define "long term data". If you want 5 years of data, of course, no, but the amount we have should suffice.
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Daviewolf83
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In reply to bigeric • 10:49a, 4/29/21
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bigeric said:
Do we not now have long term data, covering millions more of subjects than usually employed in the approval process? Just not the controlled environment.
We definitely have real world data showing the effectiveness of the vaccines and the results are extremely good. While the efficacy from the studies/trials exceeded expectations, the effectiveness from the use of them across the general public has held up and compares very favorably to the efficacy reported from the trials.

The adverse effects reported and "verified" so far have been extremely rare and are definitely not a reason to avoid vaccination - with the exception of those with known pre-existing conditions that put them at higher risk for an adverse reaction.
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wilmwolf
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11:09a, 4/29/21
I look at it in the context of accepted risk, in the same way that I think people should approach the virus itself. Are the risks associated with getting vaccinated a very low probability? Yes. If those risks are more than a person is willing to assume, should they be forced to get the vaccine? No. If a person has a particular concern with one of the possible side effects or complications of the vaccine, I'm not going to say that they should ignore that go ahead and get it because the chances of it happening are incredibly small, as long as they understand the risks of not getting vaccinated. I personally wasn't super thrilled with getting it, though I obviously I did. I'm not anti-vaxx, a conspiracy theorist, anti-pharma or anything else. I know a lot of people who work in pharmaceuticals, some involved in vaccine development. I trust their work, but we're still dealing with a new type of vaccine, for a new virus, and if that doesn't make you at least a little tiny bit apprehensive, well good for you I guess.
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PackPA2015
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In reply to wilmwolf • 11:25a, 4/29/21
wilmwolf80 said:
I look at it in the context of accepted risk, in the same way that I think people should approach the virus itself. Are the risks associated with getting vaccinated a very low probability? Yes. If those risks are more than a person is willing to assume, should they be forced to get the vaccine? No. If a person has a particular concern with one of the possible side effects or complications of the vaccine, I'm not going to say that they should ignore that go ahead and get it because the chances of it happening are incredibly small, as long as they understand the risks of not getting vaccinated. I personally wasn't super thrilled with getting it, though I obviously I did. I'm not anti-vaxx, a conspiracy theorist, anti-pharma or anything else. I know a lot of people who work in pharmaceuticals, some involved in vaccine development. I trust their work, but we're still dealing with a new type of vaccine, for a new virus, and if that doesn't make you at least a little tiny bit apprehensive, well good for you I guess.
No, I definitely was apprehensive knowing that I would be one of the first outside of studies to receive the vaccine. I scoured the safety data that we had and that was enough to convince me as an individual and also as a provider to receive it and recommend it. As a medical provider, I try very hard not to recommend or prescribe any medication, treatments, or procedures that I would not recommend for myself or for family.

I'm not shaming anyone for not getting the vaccine. That is their personal decision based on their risks or lack thereof which is perfectly fine. I am just curious as to what reasons a medical provider may not recommend the vaccine to a patient.
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IseWolf22
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11:51a, 4/29/21
I had my 2nd shot yesterday (Pfizer). Symptoms have been mild. I don't feel great, but it's like a minor head cold
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packgrad
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1:49p, 4/29/21
Durham Summer Swim League is back this year. But they will only be allowing virtual swim meets. Because science.
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Civilized
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In reply to packgrad • 2:16p, 4/29/21
How does a virtual swim meet work?
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Wayland
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In reply to packgrad • 2:17p, 4/29/21
packgrad said:
Durham Summer Swim League is back this year. But they will only be allowing virtual swim meets. Because science.
TSA (Wake's big summer swim league) is back as well (well, some teams did compete last summer, but mostly virtual).

This year, whether in person or virtual is up to the clubs. If one club wants virtual, the meet that week will be virtual

Our pool plans on being in person as much as possible. I am hoping we get 4-5 of our 6 meets as 'in person'.

So far one of our 'Away' opponents have said that they are only doing virtual this year, so we are going to swim away at another pool who also has a 'Virtual' meet that week.... and then just submit our times.

Virtual is lame. Year round kids have been swimming meets INDOORS since September.
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Wayland
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In reply to Civilized • 2:17p, 4/29/21
Civilized said:
How does a virtual swim meet work?
You just swim at your home pool and submit times to the other club.

Running a meet under 2 sets of conditions, 2 different timing systems, 2 pools, is not ideal. Meets in general have a flow and that flow affects outcomes.

That being said, experience is more important than outcomes. I just want the kids to have it as normal as possible.
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packgrad
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2:41p, 4/29/21
Swim meets are so fun for kids. Suck for adults. Certainly better than no meets, but, also certainly, doesn't seem to align with CDC guidance.
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Wayland
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In reply to packgrad • 2:53p, 4/29/21
packgrad said:
Swim meets are so fun for kids. Suck for adults. Certainly better than no meets, but, also certainly, doesn't seem to align with CDC guidance.
Following NC guidance, can have 50% deck capacity for guests for events (not counting athletes, coaches, meet staff).

Will we still likely minimize the amount of parents allowed on the pool deck during meets this summer, but absolutely nothing in the new EO that prevents full, in person, unmasked, outdoor swim meets.
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GuerrillaPack
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In reply to PackPA2015 • 9:32a, 4/30/21
PackPA2015 said:
GuerrillaPack said:
PackPA2015 said:
Alright, now we are up to two cases out of the millions vaccinated. This is still less than the incidence of Guillain-Barre in the general population. Where have you seen it described as "widespread"?


It's more than two cases of paralysis. I've just shown two examples. And I didn't say/mean that cases of paralysis were widespread. What I'm saying is that negative side effects of all kinds are widespread.


What specific side effects are widespread?

Please, don't label the natural immune response symptoms - low grade fever, muscle aches, fatigue, etc. - as side effects.

To hit on this point one more time, we see around 3000-6000 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome in the US every year due to various bacterial and viral illnesses. These did not increase in 2020 due to COVID and have not increased so far in 2021 due to vaccination.


https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/eu-vaccine-injury-reporting-eudravigilance-330000-adverse-events-covid-vaccines/

Quote:
EU Vaccine Injury Reporting System Shows More Than 330,000 Adverse Events Following Covid Vaccines

...

According to the report, injury and death report totals for each vaccine were:

- Pfizer-BioNTech: 4,293 deaths and 144,607 injuries
- Moderna: 2,094 deaths and 15,979 injuries
- AstraZeneca: 1,360 deaths and 169,386 injuries
- Johnson & Johnson (Janssen): 19 deaths and 246 injuries

Cardiac and blood/lymphatic disorders were among the most commonly reported injuries.

"Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." - John 15:19
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RunsWithWolves26
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In reply to GuerrillaPack • 10:11a, 4/30/21
GP, you may be right but if those numbers were accurate, it would be front page news everywhere and it ain't. My brother actually works with a data collection group on the vaccines, he was part of one of the groups going through the info as the vaccines were in trial phases. I will send this to him for confirmation.
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Daviewolf83
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In reply to RunsWithWolves26 • 11:10a, 4/30/21
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RunsWithWolves26 said:
GP, you may be right but if those numbers were accurate, it would be front page news everywhere and it ain't. My brother actually works with a data collection group on the vaccines, he was part of one of the groups going through the info as the vaccines were in trial phases. I will send this to him for confirmation.

Before you bother your brother with this, you might want to read this article from Politifact regarding the article GP makes reference to:

European databased does not prove the Covid-19 vaccines are lethal

Much like the VAERS site I have mentioned before, the database is a site for collecting reports, but these reports are unverified and should not be used to make a final determination as to the safety of vaccines. In fact, the EudraVigilance database says it collects data for:

"suspected side effects ... but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine."

"Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use," EudraVigilance's website says. "Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine."

Until all reports are verified, it is "garbage in = garbage out"
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packgrad
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In reply to Daviewolf83 • 11:13a, 4/30/21
Daviewolf83 said:
RunsWithWolves26 said:
GP, you may be right but if those numbers were accurate, it would be front page news everywhere and it ain't. My brother actually works with a data collection group on the vaccines, he was part of one of the groups going through the info as the vaccines were in trial phases. I will send this to him for confirmation.

Before you bother your brother with this, you might want to read this article from Politifact regarding the article GP makes reference to:

European databased does not prove the Covid-19 vaccines are lethal

Much like the VAERS site I have mentioned before, the database is a site for collecting reports, but these reports are unverified and should not be used to make a final determination as to the safety of vaccines. In fact, the EudraVigilance database says it collects data for:

"suspected side effects ... but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine."

"Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use," EudraVigilance's website says. "Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine."

Until all reports are verified, it is "garbage in = garbage out"


I understand your clarification on the article but the same standards weren't used when counting Covid deaths. There was no distinguishing between with and of.
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PackMom
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In reply to Daviewolf83 • 11:24a, 4/30/21
Reminds me of an article I saw which listed some reports made to VAERS about the vaccine. Among them, pregnancy.
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