Coronavirus

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Everpack
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Wayland said:

On a side note:

Not sure how this will hold for next week given our current case counts. But NC CLI/ILI surveillance came out yesterday and ED visits and CLI % have been trending down for two weeks. That is certainly a positive given current case rates. If hospitalizations keep trending down that would be a great sign, but I am not holding my breath.

Also zero cases of flu detected in NC last week.

https://files.nc.gov/covid/documents/dashboard/Weekly-COVID19-Surveillance.pdf


If the WHO ILI page is to be believed, NC isn't an anomaly in having zero influenza cases. I had read that the prevalence of influenza in the Southern Hemisphere winter was down like 98% this year. It appears the Rona has eliminated influenza.


ncsualum05
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Daviewolf these are great points. This NEVER gets mentioned. What the Trump admin did along with the govt and military with the help of private sector was nothing short of incredible. It truly was one of the best mobilizations to fight a pandemic ever seen. But Trump and his people will NEVER get any credit for that. All they want to say is that he's done nothing, doesn't care, and doesn't wear his mask enough. And the vaccine will be in record time and mobilization as well but people don't believe that either.
ciscopack
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Michigan records highest ever 7-day average number of new positive COVID cases

Ohio reports 3,590 new cases of COVID-19; highest single-day total

Illinois announces highest ever daily COVID-19 case count with 6,161 positive tests, 63 deaths

The good news is.... we're rounding the corner and it will all be gone before you know it.
Pacfanweb
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^ How many new tests are they doing? Record # of those as well?

A quick look at Michigan's numbers on the Covid Tracking Project indicates
that they did roughly 26k tests from the 20th through the 29th.

I can't find a similar time period, again..at a quick glance, where they did that many.

September 1-10 they only did 11k. That's more days, less tests.

August 1-10 they did about 8k. Same thing.

July 1-10 they did 6k.

Yet just since Tuesday last week, they've done 26k.

I wonder why they have more positives?

Bet it's the same for the other states, too.
statefan91
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I'm not sure what the link you're using shows but I'd recommend going to the source:

https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173---,00.html

This shows 3 days since beginning of September with less than 20k tests, all other days above that.
Daviewolf83
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Staff
If only the US had taken this virus as seriously as the major European countries, we would not be seeing increasing cases now.

All of the countries shown on the chart below (except for one) had national mask mandates (apparently national mandates are not as magical as some believe) and restrictions on businesses much more severe than the US. They all had leaders who wore masks in public and took this virus seriously. Apparently, viruses do not care about mask mandates, even if they are national. Apparently, viruses do not care about business restrictions, even if they are severe. Apparently, viruses do not care if the leaders of the country take it seriously.




Viruses react to their environment and behaviors in the environment. Based on what I have learned over the past several months of this pandemic, I offer the following:

1. Why do infections from the flu increase in the Fall and Winter? People get cold and they go inside. Viruses spread much more easily inside, where ventilation is poor. Viruses do not spread well when people are outside. We should not be surprised that infections are on the rise, since it is starting to get cold. We also know through contact tracing that much of the current spread is occurring within families and in small family gatherings. When it gets cold, many of these gatherings move indoors.

2. Why do some areas of the world get infected with viruses at different rates? Viruses mutate and sometimes these mutations are more contagious. There is some good evidence (I have provided this detail previously) that he strain of the Coronavirus that has impacted the Asia Pacific region is less contagious and virulent than the strain that has infected Europe, Latin America, and the US.

3. Why do the populations of some nations not get infected to the level as other nations? They have built-up T-Cell immunity/resistance due to past infections by closely related viruses. There are many scientists that believe T-Cell immunity offers as good as, if not better immunity to viruses. It is one of the theories currently being studied with respect to younger adults in the US who have recently been infected with coronavirus versions of the common cold and with people who lived in Asia Pacific countries at the time of the SARS outbreak. The theory is these people are protected from Covid-19, due to T-Cell resistance from the previous infections.

4. Is the virus gone in those countries with no reported infections? No. Many of these countries are either islands or they are countries with zero travel across their one boarder (S. Korea). These countries have cut off travel completely and since they are islands (or effectively an island), the ability for people to travel there and bring the virus is effectively zero. Once travel restrictions are lifted, they will see the infections from the virus again.

5. Will the virus come back in those countries with no reported infections? Yes. See the above.

6. Will the virus be present, even when we have a vaccine? Yes. We know the vaccine is likely only to be 50-70% effective, since many people will not get vaccinated (either by choice or due to limited supply initially). Additionally, we know viruses mutate and it is possible the mutations will become resistant to the vaccines currently available. This is why we have to get a flu vaccine every year.

7. Will the virus and outbreaks from the virus be happening 5-10 years from now? Yes. As mentioned above, viruses mutate. This is what they do. Sometimes the mutation can cause them to become less virulent and they go away, but in cases of other viruses (normal flu and common cold), the mutations help them evade the antibodies created by a vaccine.

8. Do national lockdowns on their populations stop a virus from spreading, long-term? There is no evidence in history of this being the case and it has not been demonstrated with Covid-19 restrictions worldwide. While spread has been slowed or stopped temporarily (see above), there is no evidence lockdowns can end a pandemic.

9. Do lockdowns have unintended consequences? Yes. Lockdowns do have very definite consequences. They cause increases in suicide and drug use, due to social isolation and the inability of people to work effectively with their peer support groups. They cause increased violence in the home to spouses and children, due to the stresses of the lockdown. Shutting down of schools severely impacts the critical early development of young children at a time when the ability to learn and grow socially is the most prevalent. Businesses that are locked down can not get the revenue they need to pay employees, leading to layoffs and massive unemployment. Even the best of economies can not go through lengthy lockdown periods. It is the responsibility of national leaders and elected officials to balance the costs of lockdowns against the loss of life due to the virus and make reasoned and sometimes tough decisions.

10. Will Americans agree to wear a mask and social distance for another year? I am highly doubtful this will be the case, particularly if we do get a vaccine and effective therapeutics. I believe Americans will begin to more broadly resist government mandates on mask wearing and businesses, once a vaccine becomes widely available (likely early in 2021). As I mentioned in point 9, lockdowns and failure to open schools is having severe consequences on the population. People recognize this and at some point, policies will have to be modified to allow for less restrictions. Today, science tells us that schools should be open to in-person instruction and at some point, science will win out over opinion and fear.
wilmwolf
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Just pin this post to the top of the friggin thread.
caryking
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wilmwolf80 said:

Just pin this post to the top of the friggin thread.


So true...
ciscopack
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...and here I was thinking Europe treated the virus pretty much like we did?

[url=https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&country=USA~DEU~JPN~CAN~AUS~KOR®ion=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=new_cases_per_million&pickerSort=desc][/url]
acslater1344
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Narratives, baby! We've all got one.
Pacfanweb
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statefan91 said:

I'm not sure what the link you're using shows but I'd recommend going to the source:

https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173---,00.html

This shows 3 days since beginning of September with less than 20k tests, all other days above that.
The last couple of weeks has been a pretty good # more tests, using your link.
Post I responded claimed the "highest 7 day total ever".
I pointed out they also had the highest # of tests in that time frame, ever. That's pretty indisputable, looking at the graph on the link you provided.

Point remains.
Wayland
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Cases Up Up Up. Hospitalizations mostly stable (though ICU is creeping up)

NC - 10/31 *with* COVID Deaths Update. +46

Dates of Death Reported
10/30(10), 10/29(14), 10/28(4), 10/27(3), 10/25, 10/24(4), 10/23, 10/22, 10/21, 10/17, 10/15(2), 10/10, 10/5, 9/17

1 removed 10/18

2 new missing DoD (5 total)

Setting:
28 Congregate, 10 Unknown, 8 General

New peak 7 day avg reported deaths 10/31 - 33.5

Second highest week of reported congregate deaths (almost 8 months in!!).

Only 28% of deaths reported this week in NC are classified as "Not Living/Working in Congregate Living Settings"





wilmwolf
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My favorite thing of late is getting the stink eye from people walking through the parking lot because I don't put my mask up until I get to the grocery store door. You aren't going to catch covid walking through the parking lot. Hell, you're pretty damn unlikely to catch it walking through the store. Sorry parking lot people, I'm going to keep my glasses fog free while I'm dodging automobiles, deal with it.
DrummerboyWolf
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wilmwolf80 said:

My favorite thing of late is getting the stink eye from people walking through the parking lot because I don't put my mask up until I get to the grocery store door. You aren't going to catch covid walking through the parking lot. Hell, you're pretty damn unlikely to catch it walking through the store. Sorry parking lot people, I'm going to keep my glasses fog free while I'm dodging automobiles, deal with it.
Wilmwolf, you went to the Duke game correct? On TV, when they were showing the crowd, there were several people I saw with their masks not on, either hanging on their ear or pulled down. Did you do that too and did you see a lot of people not wearing?
Being an N. C. State fan builds great character!
wilmwolf
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I wore my mask the whole time, other than when I had a chicken sandwich at halftime. We were told that if you weren't wearing your mask you'd be asked to leave, other than if you were eating or drinking. I can't speak to what you saw, but I didn't see anyone around me who wasn't following the rules. As I've said many times on this thread, I follow the rules, whether I agree with them or not (in life, not just with respect to Rona).
DrummerboyWolf
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wilmwolf80 said:

I wore my mask the whole time, other than when I had a chicken sandwich at halftime. We were told that if you weren't wearing your mask you'd be asked to leave, other than if you were eating or drinking. I can't speak to what you saw, but I didn't see anyone around me who wasn't following the rules. As I've said many times on this thread, I follow the rules, whether I agree with them or not (in life, not just with respect to Rona).
Ok thanks. I was going to ask the week of the game but forgot.
Being an N. C. State fan builds great character!
Daviewolf83
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Staff
wilmwolf80 said:

I wore my mask the whole time, other than when I had a chicken sandwich at halftime. We were told that if you weren't wearing your mask you'd be asked to leave, other than if you were eating or drinking. I can't speak to what you saw, but I didn't see anyone around me who wasn't following the rules. As I've said many times on this thread, I follow the rules, whether I agree with them or not (in life, not just with respect to Rona).
This is what I have done at every game I have attended. My mask stays on, unless I am drinking or eating. Once I am done, the mask goes back up. If those are the rules, I will follow them.
WPNfamily
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wilmwolf80 said:

My favorite thing of late is getting the stink eye from people walking through the parking lot because I don't put my mask up until I get to the grocery store door. You aren't going to catch covid walking through the parking lot. Hell, you're pretty damn unlikely to catch it walking through the store. Sorry parking lot people, I'm going to keep my glasses fog free while I'm dodging automobiles, deal with it.


I do the same. A lady at Lowe's the other day looked at me when I was putting my mask on and said, "you don't look like you like wearing a mask". I asked her if anyone does and she said I look miserable. I can't figure out if she was flirting with me or I am just a grumpy *****
Cthepack
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WPNfamily said:

wilmwolf80 said:

My favorite thing of late is getting the stink eye from people walking through the parking lot because I don't put my mask up until I get to the grocery store door. You aren't going to catch covid walking through the parking lot. Hell, you're pretty damn unlikely to catch it walking through the store. Sorry parking lot people, I'm going to keep my glasses fog free while I'm dodging automobiles, deal with it.


I do the same. A lady at Lowe's the other day looked at me when I was putting my mask on and said, "you don't look like you like wearing a mask". I asked her if anyone does and she said I look miserable. I can't figure out if she was flirting with me or I am just a grumpy *****
You post on an NC State forum. I would go with GRUMPY!
PossumJenkins
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ciscopack said:

...and here I was thinking Europe treated the virus pretty much like we did?

[url=https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&country=USA~DEU~JPN~CAN~AUS~KOR®ion=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=new_cases_per_million&pickerSort=desc][/url]


Seems like your data about Europe is missing...you know...most of the countries that actually make up Europe? Like the one Davie posted above with more of the European countries in the European data? And for sure don't include Belgium on there....
ciscopack
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PossumJenkins said:

ciscopack said:

...and here I was thinking Europe treated the virus pretty much like we did?

[url=https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&country=USA~DEU~JPN~CAN~AUS~KOR®ion=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=new_cases_per_million&pickerSort=desc][/url]


Seems like your data about Europe is missing...you know...most of the countries that actually make up Europe? Like the one Davie posted above with more of the European countries in the European data? And for sure don't include Belgium on there....
Like I said, Europe treated the virus like we did. I was showing you what happened when you really fought it well and those countries didn't close down as much as we did. SCIENCE

4 ways Australia's coronavirus response was a triumph, and 4 ways it fell short

How Japan Beat Coronavirus Without Lockdowns

What can we learn from South Korea's response?
ciscopack
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Oh and if Donald J. Trump used those lessons and listened to science.....the nation would be more open sooner with probably 125,000 less deaths and he'd be reelected beyond a shadow of a doubt. Now he's probably headed to prison?
wilmwolf
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The success or failures in the handling of the virus fall on the states. There is very little the federal government can do, and they've done it. But let's keep making **** up and trying to steer a non political thread in that direction.
PossumJenkins
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ciscopack said:

PossumJenkins said:

ciscopack said:

...and here I was thinking Europe treated the virus pretty much like we did?

[url=https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&country=USA~DEU~JPN~CAN~AUS~KOR®ion=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=new_cases_per_million&pickerSort=desc][/url]


Seems like your data about Europe is missing...you know...most of the countries that actually make up Europe? Like the one Davie posted above with more of the European countries in the European data? And for sure don't include Belgium on there....
Like I said, Europe treated the virus like we did. I was showing you what happened when you really fought it well and those countries didn't close down as much as we did. SCIENCE

4 ways Australia's coronavirus response was a triumph, and 4 ways it fell short

How Japan Beat Coronavirus Without Lockdowns

What can we learn from South Korea's response?


Bro stop...for weeks it was "if only we would have done what Europe did". Italy and Spain's lockdowns were MASSIVELY more strict than ours. But now that they have exploded again those examples don't fit the narrative your pushing. There's enough panic porn out there...don't play yourself by pretending your side wasn't shouting Europe from the rooftops a few months ago
Ripper
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Science says open up, schools and society, and protect the Uber tiny segment of society that is actually at risk from the virus. Follow the science.
Daviewolf83
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Staff
wilmwolf80 said:

The success or failures in the handling of the virus fall on the states. There is very little the federal government can do, and they've done it. But let's keep making **** up and trying to steer a non political thread in that direction.
You are correct and it is a fact that Cisco has chosen to ignore. The federal government does not have the power to issue a national mask mandate. The federal government does not have the power to shut down all states. The federal government does not have the power to force states to test specific numbers of their populations. They can issue guidelines and they have. It is up to the states to either follow them or come up with their own guidelines.

Remember back in April when Trump said he would force states to reopen their economies and many states said "No." They were absolutely right. The federal government did not have power over the states to force them to open and they did not have the power to force them to close down. Based on the organization of the United States, the power to do those things is vested with the states.

Who is responsible for insuring the populations in their states get tested? The governors and health officials are responsible. Who is responsible of insuring workers in nursing homes are being tested? The governors and health officials in the states are responsible. Who is responsible for establishing guidelines for public health in a state? The governor and the health officials are responsible.

Back in late August, Cooper and Cohen said they were going to focus on testing in nursing homes and reducing the spread of cases and deaths. Remember what they proposed? They proposed testing workers in nursing homes once every two weeks. Hell, my son is tested three days a week, just to play football. You would think if you can test college athletes three times a week, you could do the same for nursing home employees. However, this was not Cooper and Cohen's plan. Their plan was to test once every two weeks. What do we have to show for their plan? Well, nursing home deaths have remained high. We are still seeing over half the deaths in NC from nursing homes residents. Again, this is after Cooper and Cohen said they would focus on these facilities. Do I blame Trump for this? Absolutely not. Who do I blame? Cooper and Cohen. No one can defend how poorly Cooper and Cohen have handled the nursing home situation.

Lets talk about contact tracing in NC. Several weeks ago, WRAL did a story on the contact tracing the Cooper administration implemented. Do you know what they reported? It is an absolute mess. Do you know how South Korea and Japan got control in their countries? it was due in part to contact tracing. However, in NC, contact tracing has not been effective. Do you know who is responsible for this failure? It is the governor and the officials at NCDHHS. Who is to blame? The governor and NCDHHS.

To come on this thread and to continue to sell a story that blames everything on Trump only makes you look like a fool to the people who have paid attention to what is going on in this state and this country. It clearly shows you do not know anything about this topic and only want to use it to advance a political agenda. I have put up with the crap for weeks, but I am done. There is a mute button on this site and you (Cisco) get the honor of having it used on you. Congratulations!!
TheStorm
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wilmwolf80 said:

My favorite thing of late is getting the stink eye from people walking through the parking lot because I don't put my mask up until I get to the grocery store door. You aren't going to catch covid walking through the parking lot. Hell, you're pretty damn unlikely to catch it walking through the store. Sorry parking lot people, I'm going to keep my glasses fog free while I'm dodging automobiles, deal with it.
I've gotten so sick and tired of wearing the damn thing that I've started consistently forgetting to grab it before I leave the car to go in a business... get halfway to the door and remember and turn back around. Fortunately, I see a lot of other people doing the same thing as well, so at least I'm not alone in that regard...
Civilized
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Daviewolf83 said:

wilmwolf80 said:

The success or failures in the handling of the virus fall on the states. There is very little the federal government can do, and they've done it. But let's keep making **** up and trying to steer a non political thread in that direction.
You are correct and it is a fact that Cisco has chosen to ignore. The federal government does not have the power to issue a national mask mandate. The federal government does not have the power to shut down all states. The federal government does not have the power to force states to test specific numbers of their populations. They can issue guidelines and they have. It is up to the states to either follow them or come up with their own guidelines.


Trump has been bragging for weeks about ending the pandemic so obviously he completely disagrees that there is very little the feds can do. He thinks he ended it.

Which is it?

Are the feds impotent to effect meaningful virus mitigation?

Or did Trump end the pandemic?

Can't be both.
wilmwolf
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Is Trump posting in this thread? Has anyone in this thread said Trump ended the pandemic? ******* y'all have problems. Aren't there enough ****ing threads on this board about Trump, politics, the election, etc. ? This isn't one of those threads.
Ripper
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The Left: They take Trump literally, but not seriously. Common sense people: They take Trump seriously, but not literally.

I'm other words, obsessing over specific bluster or specific tweets is missing the point.
Civilized
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wilmwolf80 said:

Is Trump posting in this thread? Has anyone in this thread said Trump ended the pandemic? ******* y'all have problems. Aren't there enough ****ing threads on this board about Trump, politics, the election, etc. ? This isn't one of those threads.

Stop talking out both sides of your mouth.

You and Davie promoting the erroneous idea just a few posts prior that the federal government is impotent in the fight against COVID and all the blame lies at the feet of the state is what I was directly responding to.

Trump leads the federal government response, and his remarks directly contradict you and Davie's assertion.

But if posting that and then playing the "no one is allowed to say Trump's name in this thread" card makes you feel better, have at it.
WPNfamily
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Ripper said:

The Left: They take Trump literally, but not seriously. Common sense people: They take Trump seriously, but not literally.

I'm other words, obsessing over specific bluster or specific tweets is missing the point.


That's a great way to put it. He is bombastic and always has been. Many people struggle with the President not being a public choir boy. But they are ok with him being a closet pedo smeller. So strange.
wilmwolf
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NM
Daviewolf83
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Staff
Civilized said:

Daviewolf83 said:

wilmwolf80 said:

The success or failures in the handling of the virus fall on the states. There is very little the federal government can do, and they've done it. But let's keep making **** up and trying to steer a non political thread in that direction.
You are correct and it is a fact that Cisco has chosen to ignore. The federal government does not have the power to issue a national mask mandate. The federal government does not have the power to shut down all states. The federal government does not have the power to force states to test specific numbers of their populations. They can issue guidelines and they have. It is up to the states to either follow them or come up with their own guidelines.


Trump has been bragging for weeks about ending the pandemic so obviously he completely disagrees that there is very little the feds can do. He thinks he ended it.

Which is it?

Are the feds impotent to effect meaningful virus mitigation?

Or did Trump end the pandemic?

Can't be both.
Trump has not ended the pandemic and Biden will not end the pandemic. To think either of them has this much power is hubris. At this point, all you can do individually is to wear a mask, wash your hands, and avoid close personal contact when in public. The virus will slow down when we have an effective vaccine and enough people become infected to have natural immunity. It will not go away.

I stand by my earlier statement regarding national mask mandates, the shutting down of states, and the requirements on testing. Trump did not have the power to force states to reopen in April (as was correctly pointed out when he threatened to do so) and conversely, he does not have the power on a national level to force them to shutdown. The same goes for Biden, should he win the election.
Civilized
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Daviewolf83 said:

Civilized said:

Daviewolf83 said:

wilmwolf80 said:

The success or failures in the handling of the virus fall on the states. There is very little the federal government can do, and they've done it. But let's keep making **** up and trying to steer a non political thread in that direction.
You are correct and it is a fact that Cisco has chosen to ignore. The federal government does not have the power to issue a national mask mandate. The federal government does not have the power to shut down all states. The federal government does not have the power to force states to test specific numbers of their populations. They can issue guidelines and they have. It is up to the states to either follow them or come up with their own guidelines.


Trump has been bragging for weeks about ending the pandemic so obviously he completely disagrees that there is very little the feds can do. He thinks he ended it.

Which is it?

Are the feds impotent to effect meaningful virus mitigation?

Or did Trump end the pandemic?

Can't be both.
Trump has not ended the pandemic and Biden will not end the pandemic. To think either of them has this much power is hubris. At this point, all you can do individually is to wear a mask, wash your hands, and avoid close personal contact when in public. The virus will slow down when we have an effective vaccine and enough people become infected to have natural immunity. It will not go away.

I stand by my earlier statement regarding national mask mandates, the shutting down of states, and the requirements on testing. Trump did not have the power to force states to reopen in April (as was correctly pointed out when he threatened to do so) and conversely, he does not have the power on a national level to force them to shutdown. The same goes for Biden, should he win the election.

I agree with this completely.

The pandemic is such a multifaceted problem and requires interagency and state/fed cooperation, communication, synergy, funding, etc. Neither can do it by themselves.

I do think a national mask mandate is prudent from a tone-setting standpoint. For the same reasons that Trump couldn't effectuate reopening, a national mandate can't be enforced federally but mask mandates aren't really enforced at any level so it's not about enforcement. No one is getting arrested for not wearing a mask.

In both cases (fed and state) I think the biggest failings have been communication failings, not logistical ones.

In PR, messaging matters and the feds and states need clear, cohesive messaging on virus mitigation. At the federal level, Trump's wildly inconsistent and incoherent messaging about the virus has shaped Americans' attitudes about the virus, and the science that needs to be shaping policy, in very counterproductive ways.

At the state level, Cooper's opaqueness regarding testing data and reopening strategy/benchmarks have been his administration's biggest misses by far. The nursing home situation has been a challenge but is much more complicated I think.

The nursing homes with the greatest success at keeping the virus out seem to correlate, at a minimum, with areas of the country that are much less impacted by the virus. Keeping the virus out of homes also requires more luck than some people are comfortable admitting. If you handle your business and get a little lucky, you may be able to lock it down but even if your logistics are sound and the virus gets in, it can get away from you so quickly because there's no natural immunity, the virus is so contagious, and older Americans with comorbidities handle it so poorly relative to even moderately younger/healthier Americans.

There's plenty of blame to go around here. Nobody is above criticism for missteps during this challenging time. Nobody - not the feds or the state - deserves all the blame either.

That was my overarching point and the reason for my earlier post. Trump can't claim success because (on top of not actually having ended the pandemic) he can only do so much; neither though should the states take all the blame when there are clear failings at the federal level too.
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