Civilized said:

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DrummerboyWolf said:

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Steve Williams said:

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I keep hearing about the Joe Biden Covid plan. What is it exactly and how does it differ from anything that's been done so far?

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It doesn't. Everything I have heard him say, Trump has already done 6-7 months ago. He won't answer question about packing the court because "the voters don't deserve to know." Biden said that the Republicans confirming Amy Coney Barrett is "unconstitutional" just yesterday. It's not unconstitutional in any way. He wants to go back to Obamacare and try it again after it failed spectacularly. He has no policies that make any sense.

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You may say you don't like Biden's plan, or don't believe he can implement it.

But to say these are all things "Trump has already done 6-7 months ago" is obviously false. You either haven't actually taken the time to look at Biden's plan, or you just want to gloss over Trump's complete failure to conceive, communicate, and implement a coherent Covid strategy for America.

1. Stop the political theater and willful misinformation that has heightened confusion and discrimination.
2. Ensure that public health decisions are made by public health professionals and not politicians.
3. Immediately restore the White House National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense.
4. Make Testing Widely Available and Free.
5. Ensure that every person who needs a test can get one and that testing for those who need it is free.
6. Establish at least ten mobile testing sites and drive-through facilities per state to speed testing and protect health care workers.
7. Provide a daily public White House report on how many tests have been done by the CDC, state and local health authorities, and private laboratories.
8. Expand CDC sentinel surveillance programs and other surveillance programs so that we can offer tests not only only to those who ask but also to those who may not know to ask, especially vulnerable populations like nursing home patients and people with underlying medical conditions. This must be done in collaboration with private sector health care entities.
9. Task the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services to help establish a diagnosis code for COVID-19 on an emergency basis so that surveillance can be done using claims data.
10. Preparing to stand up multi-hundred-bed temporary hospitals in any city on short notice by deploying existing Federal Medical Stations in the strategic national stockpile and preemptively defining potential locations for their use as needed.
11. Directing the U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) to prepare for potential deployment of military resources, both the active and reserve components, and work with governors to prepare for potential deployment of National Guard resources, to provide medical facility capacity, logistical support, and additional medical personnel if necessary.
12. Instructing the CDC to establish real-time dashboards tracking (1) hospital admissions related to COVID-19, especially for ICUs and emergency departments, in concert with the American Hospital Association and large hospital chains, for which the HHS must ensure data is able to be shared, as needed; and (2) supply chain information including availability, allocation, and shipping for essential equipment and personal protective equipment, including in the various places where there may be federal reserves.
13. Ensuring that training, materials, and resources reach federally qualified health centers, rural health clinics, and safety-net hospitals, which are typically resource-poor and care disproportionately for vulnerable populations that will bear the brunt of COVID-19.
14. Surge tele-emergency room, tele-ICU care, and telemedicine through a concerted, coordinated effort by health care providers to enable staff to manage additional patients and save beds for the very sick. Leverage existing efforts like Project ECHO to ensure health professionals have tele-mentoring and other training resources they need to make informed decisions.
15. Support older adults, vulnerable individuals, and people with disabilities. Ensure essential home- and community-based services continue and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid works to provide the waivers necessary for those who rely on medication to have a sufficient supply.

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And on, and on...

https://joebiden.com/covid-plan/

Is Trump's plan out there somewhere? Serious question. I'd like to compare the two, if so.

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Honestly, as I was reading through that list I was thinking that we have already done most of that.
If Biden is elected the biggest change will be that the media won't blowing every single minor issue way out of proportion like they do now. In other words they will not be trying every way possible to make him look bad, like they ARE trying to make Trump look bad. Same thing they did with Obama... They will protect Biden.

Steve Williams said:

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Noticed in Wake Forest they've taken one of those DOT yellow light signs that's usually used for traffic issues and are using it to blare "free covid tests, no waiting". So if you live in the area I suppose you can get a free test.

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Stick a huge probe up my nose and swab part of my brain, all for some unreliable test that provides huge numbers of false "positives", for a supposed disease that has not even been isolated and which is no more deadly than the seasonal flu.

No thanks. I can survive a cold. I haven't bought into one iota of this madness.

GuerrillaPack said:

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Steve Williams said:

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Noticed in Wake Forest they've taken one of those DOT yellow light signs that's usually used for traffic issues and are using it to blare "free covid tests, no waiting". So if you live in the area I suppose you can get a free test.

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Stick a huge probe up my nose and swab part of my brain, all for some unreliable test that provides huge numbers of false "positives", for a supposed disease that has not even been isolated and which is no more deadly than the seasonal flu.

No thanks. I can survive a cold. I haven't bought into one iota of this madness.

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You've been corrected on this before. Empathy is not your strong suit, much like shapes.

ciscopack said:

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"Herd immunity is another word for mass murder," expert says

White House embraces Covid-19 herd immunity declaration from fake scientists, experts say 'this is mass murder'

Is Jim Jones in charge?

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Do you just search the internet for articles that piss you off? That doesnt seem like a healthy habit

Saying "Herd immunity is another word for mass murder." is really saying "I am a moron."

I think the biggest problem with requiring masks, and I've said this multiple times in this thread, is the false sense of security given to the wearer, particularly when you have people in charge saying that a mask is better than a vaccine or that the virus will go away if everyone wears a mask. Is there anything wrong with everyone wearing a mask? No, not inherently, we probably should all do it every cold and flu season. However, thinking that wearing a little bit of fabric over your mouth is going to keep you from getting the virus, or completely stop you from spreading it, is fallacy.

As more and more evidence and studies come out, I still stand by my thought from a hundred pages ago that the measures that we have taken have been, by in large, ineffective at best. The majority of those who have died in this state from the virus have been in congregate facilities, as Wayland and Davie show us daily, and the lockdown and mask mandate haven't been able to stop that at all. If everyone were wearing respirators, and there weren't any essential jobs and everyone didn't leave their house for months, maybe. But the reality is, as long as some portion of the population is out and about, the virus will continue to do what it does. By all means, continue to cover your face where required, wash your hands, social distance, be careful around those who are at risk, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't question the effectiveness, and selective enforcement of, these measures.

Bas2020 said:

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Trumps fault.... Orange man bad.....

Thanks for posting that, Davie. Something to keep in mind, but i share your sentiment about masking.

Most of this I've said before, but I'll share again because i think it's hugely important. Most of what I'm going to say is, to me, extremely common sensical and not political or even overly medical. But this is how i try to think about it as we navigate this pandemic.

1. I appreciate Dr. Young's effort to inform us, but keep in mind he's a statistician, not a medical doctor who's interpreting studies and performing a meta-analysis without knowledge of the nuts and bolts of the studies, probably no experience with critically reviewing such individual studies, and no medical background. But still good stuff to know.
2. The infectious disease docs here are wearing mask and imploring us to do so. They have forgotten more about how viruses virus than you and i will ever know.
3. The article states what percentage of exposed people became infected, but doesn't mention severity of infection or outcomes.
4. Severity of infection is what's really important, don't you think? Who cares if everybody gets infected if they don't get sick? Variolation to get herd immunity?
5. Again i say: sneeze in your mask. Take the mask off. Feel it. Is it wet? If it is and you have the Rona, do those droplets contain virus? Are those virus-laden droplets ones that could have been airborn if not for the mask? Is innoculum size important in infectious potential and, more importantly, in severity of disease? If those virus filled droplets are in the mask instead of your buddy's face, is the innoculum lower? Exits from the mask are mostly at the edges, and not so much straight ahead. Where was your buddy standing?
6. Sure masks aren't the magical answer that prevents spread completely and ends the pandemic, and so you can still infect others or get infected even if you wear them often and correctly. But, i remain quite confident based on my answers to myself in number 5 that masks reduce innoculum load and therefore, in many cases, severity of disease even if disease rate is the same. And if a virus is gonna virus, then at least do something to increase the chance it'll be mild when i get it.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that exactly what we're seeing? Disease rate is fairly stable to slightly decreased, but severity of disease, avg age, hospitalizations, deaths, icu use all declining? To me, the assumptions that can be made and my knowledge of the importance of viral load are stronger than any study seen to date.

How does one even do a good RCT here? Where are the volunteers to randomize into the arm that takes a sneeze to the face from a sick person without masks? Them peeps cray.

GuerrillaPack said:

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Recent study shows that 85% of those "contracting covid" either "always" or "often" wore a mask:


CDC Admits "At No Time Has CDC Guidance Suggested that Masks Were Intended to Protect the Wearers"
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/wth-cdc-admits-no-time-cdc-guidance-suggested-masks-intended-protect-wearers-video/

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I could hear you cheering loudly for that segment all the way over here in my corner of the earth.