PossumJenkins said:

---

How many of those 77 that were hospitalized...are still hospitalized? The recovered cases continues to be a statistic that's conveniently left out

---

One problem I see with the Johns Hopkins mapping is that it does seem to be under-reporting people who have recovered. For example, we know the first case in Wake County occurred weeks ago and yet, their map shows 0 recoveries for Wake County. There were five cases a week later and those should be close to recovering now. Additionally, North Carolina has been credited with two deaths by the Johns Hopkins map and this is accurate. One of the deaths being counted in the three for NC (that many outlets are reporting) was actually a resident of Virginia who was traveling through NC when they passed away. Not sure if Johns Hopkins is counting this person in their Virginia total.

A 10% hospitalization rate is actually more in line with what a lot of other areas are reporting, so 77 out of 700+ is about what you would expect. The 0.5% hospitalization rate versus total confirmed cases is likely too high in actuality, since NC is no longer testing everyone who shows symptoms. The denominator is definitely higher than what has been reported. The number of deaths is really the only meaningful measure when your state refuses to test all those with symptoms.

Related to this, I did see that Germany is going to test 100,000 random people to determine the percentages of people who have already had the virus and recovered, the number who have symptoms and have the virus, and the number who do not and have never had the virus. It seems like a good study to conduct and is something the US should be planning.

Last, the US is likely not the leader in total cases. Officially, maybe, but most reasonable people believe China vastly under-reported their total case numbers. Also, some new news out of China. Even though they are reporting zero new cases for the past several days, they just started to close all movie theaters.

You have seemed to have a lot of great thoughts on the subject and I'm just wondering what good news you think is out there? What realistic timeline do you see for major parts of the country to go back to normal? Even if they're just WAGs, I'm curious.

Just saw Rep. Steinburg post that Governor Cooper will issue a statewide stay at home order today at 4. If that is true what a effin joke

cowboypack02 said:

---

Just saw Rep. Steinburg post that Governor Cooper will issue a statewide stay at home order today at 4. If that is true what a effin joke

---

My county has exactly zero cases and we went under stay at home orders at 5:00 yesterday.

It's so effin stupid. Absolutely ridiculous. It's like they are conditioning us for Socialism. Never thought I'd see the day where you can't go to church, can't go to work, can't go to school, can't go get a haircut, can't go out to eat, and can't have a kids birthday party. Over what? 77 people in the hospital. Ridiculous.

These shelter in place orders are redudant and useless. State has already shut down events and gatherings, churches, schools, restaurants and bars, salons and barber shops. The shelter orders I've seen list essential businesses can remain open which include just about everything that isn't already shut down. I get why we are doing some of this but we will not be able to do this for long. You can't run and hide from viruses forever. I just hope we are giving our healthcare facilities enough time to get ready. This was never about stopping it but curbing it so that infected were spaced out over a longer period of time.

ncsualum05 said:

---

These shelter in place orders are redudant and useless. State has already shut down events and gatherings, churches, schools, restaurants and bars, salons and barber shops. The shelter orders I've seen list essential businesses can remain open which include just about everything that isn't already shut down. I get why we are doing some of this but we will not be able to do this for long. You can't run and hide from viruses forever. I just hope we are giving our healthcare facilities enough time to get ready. This was never about stopping it but curbing it so that infected were spaced out over a longer period of time.

---

Agreed. And I've begrudgingly agreed with all the closings to "flatten the curve." What worries me, is we're basically two full weeks into this thing here and no one has laid out our long term plan. If this continues for another two weeks and areas like mine are still completely unaffected, civil unrest will be a much bigger issue than a virus.

Everpack said:

---

ncsualum05 said:

---

These shelter in place orders are redudant and useless. State has already shut down events and gatherings, churches, schools, restaurants and bars, salons and barber shops. The shelter orders I've seen list essential businesses can remain open which include just about everything that isn't already shut down. I get why we are doing some of this but we will not be able to do this for long. You can't run and hide from viruses forever. I just hope we are giving our healthcare facilities enough time to get ready. This was never about stopping it but curbing it so that infected were spaced out over a longer period of time.

---

Agreed. And I've begrudgingly agreed with all the closings to "flatten the curve." What worries me, is we're basically two full weeks into this thing here and no one has laid out our long term plan. If this continues for another two weeks and areas like mine are still completely unaffected, civil unrest will be a much bigger issue than a virus.

---

That's my problem too. If we are trying to "flatten the curve" but we're not implementing a testing strategy then how will we know when we can come out of it?

Note: this is trolling the 24 hour outrage news cycle. Thought it was funny. A little chuckle before the governor further destroys small business in NC.

54,290 positive cases
999 deaths

Those numbers don't look to bad as compared to others. Those are the numbers of you take ONE state out of the equation. Taking the state of NY out of this, you have these numbers.

1,107 cases per state
20 deaths per state

These are your numbers broken down between the other 49 states. The fact that the state of NY has the 6th highest total in the entries world is mindboggling

If they do actually go through with it, it will just be about the optics. Nothing will fundamentally change from what is already taking place. It will be interesting to me when all of this is over if anyone actually looks into the legality of some of this stuff. I think the governor has the power to issue this type of order, but I'm dubious about mayors and county commissioners being able to, but maybe they can.

The stay at home orders are to protect health workers, not old people and people who catch the virus and will die.

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If they do actually go through with it, it will just be about the optics. Nothing will fundamentally change from what is already taking place. It will be interesting to me when all of this is over if anyone actually looks into the legality of some of this stuff. I think the governor has the power to issue this type of order, but I'm dubious about mayors and county commissioners being able to, but maybe they can.

---

Just in this state alone think about the 10s or 100s of thousands of people who are losing their job because of this. Those people cant pay their bills anymore. They can't afford to keep a roof over their head, food on their tables, and the utilities on at their houses. The ability of those people not to pay their bills leads to fallout from the people who own the rental properties, the grocery stores that feed folks, and the companies that own the utilities.

From here people who cant afford things get desperate.....crime goes up because people still have to eat, homelessness will go up because folks can't afford their houses anymore.

Orders from a single governor without any type of vote is what created this.

My question is what are you going to do when people start ignoring this....

wilmwolf80 said:

---

If they do actually go through with it, it will just be about the optics. Nothing will fundamentally change from what is already taking place. It will be interesting to me when all of this is over if anyone actually looks into the legality of some of this stuff. I think the governor has the power to issue this type of order, but I'm dubious about mayors and county commissioners being able to, but maybe they can.

---

166A-19.22. Municipal or county declaration of state of emergency.
(a) Declaration. - A state of emergency may be declared by the governing body of a municipality or county, if either of these finds that an emergency exists. Authority to declare a state of emergency under this section may also be delegated by ordinance to the mayor of a municipality or to the chair of the board of county commissioners of a county.
(b) Emergency Area. - The emergency area shall be determined in accordance with the following:
(1) Unless another subdivision of this subsection is applicable, the emergency area shall not exceed the area over which the municipality or county has jurisdiction to enact general police-power ordinances. The governing body declaring the state of emergency may declare that the emergency area includes part or all of the governing body's jurisdiction. Unless the governing body declaring the state of emergency provides otherwise, the emergency area includes this entire jurisdiction, subject to the limitations contained in the other subdivisions in this subsection.
(2) The emergency area of a state of emergency declared by a county shall not include any area within the corporate limits of any municipality, or within any area of the county over which a municipality has jurisdiction to enact general police-power ordinances, unless the municipality's governing body or mayor consents to or requests the state of emergency's application. Such an extension may be with respect to one or more of the prohibitions and restrictions imposed in that county pursuant to the authority granted in G.S. 166A-19.31 and need not be with respect to all prohibitions and restrictions authorized by that section.
(3) The board of commissioners or chair of the board of commissioners of any county who has been requested to do so by a mayor may by declaration extend the emergency area of a state of emergency declared by a municipality to any area within the county in which the board or chair determines it to be necessary to assist in the controlling of the emergency within the municipality. The extension may be with respect to one or more of the prohibitions and restrictions imposed in that mayor's municipality pursuant to the authority granted in G.S. 166A-19.31 and need not be with respect to all prohibitions and restrictions authorized by that section. Extension of the emergency area pursuant to this subdivision shall be subject to the following additional limitations:
a. The extension of the emergency area shall not include any area within the corporate limits of a municipality, or within any area of the county over which a municipality has jurisdiction to enact general police-power ordinances, unless the mayor or governing body of that other municipality consents to its application.
b. A chair of a board of county commissioners extending the emergency area under the authority of this subdivision shall take reasonable steps to give notice of its terms to those likely to be affected.
c. The chair of the board of commissioners shall declare the termination of any prohibitions and restrictions extended pursuant to this subdivision upon the earlier of the following:
1. The chair's determination that they are no longer necessary.
2. The determination of the board of county commissioners that they are no longer necessary.
3. The termination of the prohibitions and restrictions within the municipality.
d. The powers authorized under this subdivision may be exercised whether or not the county has enacted ordinances under the authority of G.S. 166A-19.31. Exercise of this authority shall not preclude the imposition of prohibitions and restrictions under any ordinances enacted by the county under the authority of G.S. 166A-19.31.
(c) Expiration of States of Emergency. - Unless an ordinance adopted pursuant to G.S. 166A-19.31 provides otherwise, a state of emergency declared pursuant to this section shall expire when it is terminated by the official or governing body that declared it.
(d) Effect of Declaration. - The declaration of a state of emergency pursuant to this section shall activate the local ordinances authorized in G.S. 166A-19.31 and any and all applicable local plans, mutual assistance compacts, and agreements and shall also authorize the furnishing of assistance thereunder. (Former G.S. 14-288.13: 1969, c. 869, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 195; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c). Former G.S. 14-288.14: 1969, c. 869, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 196; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 14, s. 7; c. 24, s. 14(c). Former G.S. 166A-8: 1951, c. 1016, s. 6; 1953, c. 1099, s. 4; 1957, c. 950, s. 2; 1959, c. 337, s. 5; 1973, c. 620, s. 9; 1975, c. 734, ss. 12, 14, 16; 1977, c. 848, s. 2; 2012-12, s. 1(b).)

Combine this section with this section:

166A-19.31. Power of municipalities and counties to enact ordinances to deal with states of emergency.
(a) Authority to Enact Prohibitions and Restrictions. - The governing body of any municipality or county may enact ordinances designed to permit the imposition of prohibitions and restrictions within the emergency area during a state of emergency declared pursuant to G.S. 166A-19.22. Authority to impose by declaration prohibitions and restrictions under this section, and to impose those prohibitions and restrictions at a particular time as appropriate, may be delegated by ordinance to the mayor of a municipality or to the chair of the board of county commissioners of a county.
(b) Type of Prohibitions and Restrictions Authorized. - The ordinances authorized by this section may permit prohibitions and restrictions:
(1) Of movements of people in public places, including any of the following:
a. Imposing a curfew.
b. Directing and compelling the voluntary or mandatory evacuation of all or part of the population from any stricken or threatened area within the governing body's jurisdiction.
c. Prescribing routes, modes of transportation, and destinations in connection with evacuation.
d. Controlling ingress and egress of an emergency area, and the movement of persons within that area.
e. Providing for the closure, within the emergency area, of streets, roads, highways, bridges, public vehicular areas, or other areas ordinarily used for vehicular travel, except to the movement of emergency responders and other persons necessary for recovery from the emergency. In addition to any other notice or dissemination of information, notification of any closure of a road or public vehicular area under the authority of this sub-subdivision shall be given to the Department of Transportation as soon as practicable. The ordinance may designate the sheriff to exercise the authority granted by this sub-subdivision. G.S. 166A-19.70(c) and (d) shall apply to this sub-subdivision.
(2) Of the operation of offices, business establishments, and other places to or from which people may travel or at which they may congregate.
(3) Upon the possession, transportation, sale, purchase, and consumption of alcoholic beverages.
(4) Upon the possession, transportation, sale, purchase, storage, and use of gasoline, and dangerous weapons and substances, except that this subdivision does not authorize prohibitions or restrictions on lawfully possessed firearms or ammunition. As used in this subdivision, the term "dangerous weapons and substances" has the same meaning as it does under G.S. 14-288.1. As used in this subdivision, the term "firearm" has the same meaning as it does under G.S. 14-409.39(2).
(5) Upon other activities or conditions the control of which may be reasonably necessary to maintain order and protect lives or property during the state of emergency.
The ordinances authorized by this section need not require or provide for the imposition of all of the types of prohibitions or restrictions, or any particular prohibition or restriction, authorized by this section during an emergency but may instead authorize the official or officials who impose those prohibitions or restrictions to determine and impose the prohibitions or restrictions deemed necessary or suitable to a particular state of emergency.
(c) When Ordinances Take Effect. - Notwithstanding any other provision of law, whether general or special, relating to the promulgation or publication of ordinances by any municipality or county, upon the declaration of a state of emergency by the mayor or chair of the board of county commissioners within the municipality or the county, any ordinance enacted under the authority of this section shall take effect immediately unless the ordinance sets a later time. If the effect of this section is to cause an ordinance to go into effect sooner than it otherwise could under the law applicable to the municipality or county, the mayor or chair of the board of county commissioners, as the case may be, shall take steps to cause reports of the substance of the ordinance to be disseminated in a fashion that its substance will likely be communicated to the public in general, or to those who may be particularly affected by the ordinance if it does not affect the public generally. As soon as practicable thereafter, appropriate distribution or publication of the full text of any such ordinance shall be made.
(d) When Prohibitions and Restrictions Take Effect. - All prohibitions and restrictions imposed by declaration pursuant to ordinances adopted under this section shall take effect in the emergency area immediately upon publication of the declaration unless the declaration sets a later time. For the purpose of requiring compliance, publication may consist of reports of the substance of the prohibitions and restrictions in the mass communications media serving the emergency area or other effective methods of disseminating the necessary information quickly. As soon as practicable, however, appropriate distribution of the full text of any declaration shall be made. This subsection shall not be governed by the provisions of G.S. 1-597.
(e) Expiration of Prohibitions and Restrictions. - Prohibitions and restrictions imposed pursuant to this section shall expire upon the earliest occurrence of any of the following:
(1) The prohibition or restriction is terminated by the official or entity that imposed the prohibition or restriction.
(2) The state of emergency terminates.
(f) Intent to Supplement Other Authority. - This section is intended to supplement and confirm the powers conferred by G.S. 153A-121(a), G.S. 160A-174(a), and all other general and local laws authorizing municipalities and counties to enact ordinances for the protection of the public health and safety in times of riot or other grave civil disturbance or emergency.
(g) Previously Enacted Ordinances Remain in Effect. - Any ordinance of a type authorized by this section promulgated prior to October 1, 2012, if otherwise valid, continue in full force and effect without reenactment.
(h) Violation. - Any person who violates any provision of an ordinance or a declaration enacted or declared pursuant to this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor in accordance with G.S. 14-288.20A. (Former G.S. 14-288.12: 1969, c. 869, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4(4); c. 747, s. 66; 1989, c. 770, s. 2; 1993, c. 539, s. 194; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2009-146, s. 1. Former G.S. 14-288.13: 1969, c. 869, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 195; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c). Former G.S. 14-288.16: 1969, c. 869, s. 1. Former G.S. 14-288.17: 1969, c. 869, s. 1. 2012-12, s. 1(b); 2019-89, s. 1.)

acslater1344 said:

---

I have a question for those who feel this whole thing is overblown with stay at home orders being the result of media hysteria and not science.....

How would you handle it if you were in the governor or a county commissioner's shoes right now? It would seem to me the only two options were try to institute social distancing measures or do nothing. If we were capable of capturing complete, accurate data via testing, we'd have more options. But we aren't and we don't. It's about as terrible position as you can be in as a governmental decision maker. What's the right trade-off between protecting small businesses in your state/locality and taking measures to reduce deaths across numerous age groups when, again, you really can't project how many deaths there will be when the data is complete *****

I've kind of gone back in forth in my head with what's right. I live in the zip code in Mecklenburg county with the most cases so that freaks me out a bit. I have friends that own restaurants and bartend whose lives have been completely flipped upside down by all of this.

I guess my point is that there are no easy answers here. To act like these decisions makers are morons for putting social distancing measures in place is ignorant. To act like we can stay in this quarantine mode for months and months without wrecking the lives of millions and millions of people in this country is ignorant.

For once in my life, I think this is a time to give politicians some damn slack, regardless of your stance on issues in this country in general. And in this situation if you think you're 100% right about anything... you are talking out of your @sshole.

---

Be transparent about where we are. There is an editorial in the NandO which says NC is providing less information on their cases than other states.

https://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/editorials/article241555071.html

That is a start.

Second come up with a plan and communicate it.

If you are unable to execute, clearly explain why. What are the shortcomings? Why is the state unable to procure any tests (NY and California have a lot)? What does the state need to execute its plan and how can state leaders and business support this, if help is not coming from the Federal Government?

Telling everyone to just sit at home and not providing clear guidance on what your next steps are is not a plan.

EDIT: In Cooper's presser, a reporter actually asked about the pivot to a surveillance method and how guidance was supposed to come this week and NCDHHS just talked in circles and didn't answer the question. Sad.

NC does not have a "Strong" Governor system. We have a "Strong" Legislature system. That means all Administrative functions of the State are less robust than in Strong Governor states. The medical systems in NC are also more independent of the State of NC than in a number of states because the State of NC is plugged into the medical systems at a different level - for instance the UNC BOG is a level of executive control for both Vidant and UNC Health Systems. The Wake Forest/Novant/Atrium systems and Duke Systems are private.

That's what you get with a federal system - a hodgepodge.

I'm in commercial construction so I am essential. 1st time for everything

Is golf considered exercise?

Glasswolf said:

---

I'm in commercial construction so I am essential. 1st time for everything

---

I'm in residential, right there with you.

jkpackfan said:

---

Is golf considered exercise?

---

Depends on how many times you hit the ball and how far off line.

Sounds like a deal was reached with GM to produce ventilator's and they somewhat backed out so trump implemented the defense production act to force them to do so.

According to Trump, the USA is testing nearly 100,000 people each day.

I went to the doctor yesterday just to eliminate the flu/strep or a common cold. No flu or anything serious. Was told without all symptoms no COVID-19 test would be available which I was fine with. Was also told once I was 3 days removed from any fever I could return to work. Doctor told me there weren't enough test to go around regardless

jkpackfan said:

---

Is golf considered exercise?

---

Golf is listed on the order under exercise so it looks like we all can still golf. I hope so at least, I have a tee time tomorrow afternoon

Trump can't answer the question about ventilator's. Was asked if everyone would have one. Can't answer the question. Also says noone has ever seen a pandemic the likes of this one before. Has he never heard of H1N1 10 years ago? I go back to what I've said here before. Please let Dr. Berx, Dr. Fauci, and VP Pence do the majority of the talking. The press conferences are much better that way.

PackBacker07 said:

---

---

"aggressive battle..."

but go ahead and party it up this weekend and go to church sunday to get that last feel good sermon in before it goes in to effect after work on monday...

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Trump can't answer the question about ventilator's. Was asked if everyone would have one. Can't answer the question. Also says noone has ever seen a pandemic the likes of this one before. Has he never heard of H1N1 10 years ago? I go back to what I've said here before. Please let Dr. Berx, Dr. Fauci, and VP Pence do the majority of the talking. The press conferences are much better that way.

---

H1N1 didn't threaten to overload the hospitals or shut down society. Wasn't near as lethal. I've never seen anything like this before. Obama admin barfed all over it because it should've never been as bad as it was. But only people who have seen anything like this would be over 100 years old now. And how difficult and expensive is to make and stock ventilators? How many do people keep on hand normally. Seems to me no one can answer the question or it's simply unfeasible to stockpile ventilators to the degree needed for this pandemic.

jkpackfan said:

---

Glasswolf said:

---

I'm in commercial construction so I am essential. 1st time for everything

---

I'm in residential, right there with you.

---

I'm in equipment rental and we are deemed essential as a supplier to essential businesses.

ncsualum05 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Trump can't answer the question about ventilator's. Was asked if everyone would have one. Can't answer the question. Also says noone has ever seen a pandemic the likes of this one before. Has he never heard of H1N1 10 years ago? I go back to what I've said here before. Please let Dr. Berx, Dr. Fauci, and VP Pence do the majority of the talking. The press conferences are much better that way.

---

H1N1 didn't threaten to overload the hospitals or shut down society. Wasn't near as lethal. I've never seen anything like this before. Obama admin barfed all over it because it should've never been as bad as it was. But only people who have seen anything like this would be over 100 years old now. And how difficult and expensive is to make and stock ventilators? How many do people keep on hand normally. Seems to me no one can answer the question or it's simply unfeasible to stockpile ventilators to the degree needed for this pandemic.

---

Yeah, it most certainly DID threaten hospitals.

"May 8, 2009 (CIDRAP News) With the global outbreak of novel H1N1 influenza (swine flu) entering its fourth week, physicians at emergency rooms, clinics, and hospitals around the United States say they are overwhelmed with "worried well" who have as much as doubled their patient loads."

H1N1 had nearly 275,000 hospitalizations from 4/2009 to 4/2010, estimated (by CDC) 60 million cases, and nearly 12,500 deaths.

So far COVID has caused roughly 11,000 hospitalizations, 1530 deaths, and right at 100k cases.

Within 3 months of the first case of H1N1, we had 1 million cases of it. We're not tracking anywhere close to that with COVID so far.

It's not even CLOSE to being as bad as H1N1, but it's been hyped much more. Why?

ncsualum05 said:

---

RunsWithWolves26 said:

---

Trump can't answer the question about ventilator's. Was asked if everyone would have one. Can't answer the question. Also says noone has ever seen a pandemic the likes of this one before. Has he never heard of H1N1 10 years ago? I go back to what I've said here before. Please let Dr. Berx, Dr. Fauci, and VP Pence do the majority of the talking. The press conferences are much better that way.

---

H1N1 didn't threaten to overload the hospitals or shut down society. Wasn't near as lethal. I've never seen anything like this before. Obama admin barfed all over it because it should've never been as bad as it was. But only people who have seen anything like this would be over 100 years old now. And how difficult and expensive is to make and stock ventilators? How many do people keep on hand normally. Seems to me no one can answer the question or it's simply unfeasible to stockpile ventilators to the degree needed for this pandemic.

---

My guess - it would take a company a few months (2 to 4 best case for a crude design) to tool and begin manufacturing the ventilators. I do have a degree in Industrial Engineering and spent the first 10 years of my career working as a manufacturing engineer in the computer industry. As such, I am well aware of the complexities of designing a product, tooling, and setting up production lines to mass produce them. Of course,they would have to be approved by the FDA.

I am familiar with ventilators, since my mother has been on one for over 20 years. They are basically computerized air pumps that mix oxygen (do not always have to have the oxygen integrated) with room air. So you need to computerize an air pump, so you can set the rate of the pump and mix it with sensors. You need sensors and alarms to sense when the airflow is not flowing properly - either the input or the pressure on the patient end. The fittings have to be a size that matches with the hoses. Hoses are industry standard in size.

You do need respiratory therapists to setup the machines, to administer nebulizer treatments, and suction the patient. I know how to do nebulizer treatments and how to suction a patient. I have done this for my mother many times. Suctioning involves snaking a small tube down the ventilator hose and sucking out the crude that accumulates in the lungs. You have to be careful to not go too far down and also you have to be careful when you start the suctioning, since you can produce a hole in the lungs. It sounds much harder than it is, after you get used to it.

The US did have a stockpile of ventilators and they have all been distributed. I seem to remember the number 15,000 being mentioned. You have to realize that the majority of ventilators are made in China and the majority of supply has already been purchased by other nations. Other nations had a head start on procurement, since it hit there earlier than it hit in the US. Quite frankly, this is a once in a 100 year virus and given the way this virus attacks the respiratory system, it would have been difficult to forecast the need now being seen for ventilators.

There have been some recent advances that could help with some of the ventilator shortages.One allows two patients to use one ventilator, effectively doubling the supply in these cases. The one requirement is that both patients have to have the same breathing protocol.

Additionally, in some areas of the country where the number of cases is not as great, those regions have a surplus of ventilators. The difficulty is remixing the supply to get the existing ventilators out of the areas where they are in surplus to the areas where the are in short supply.

The Coronavirus is different than H1N1 and flu (Trump is absolutely right on this point), due to the way this virus attacks the lungs.While the other virus' affect the respiratory system, the Coronavirus is much more severe in those patients with certain health conditions. People with diabetes, people who smoke, people with high blood pressure, and people with preexisting respiratory conditions are most at risk. This is not the case with the flu and with H1N1. Some people are able to fight off the virus with little impact to their health (some people likely have had it and thought they had a cold) while others require hospitalization and in some cases, they need breathing assistance.

The other thing that is different from flu and H1N1 is the length of time many patients must remain on the ventilator. With the flu, it is typically 3-5 days (according to reports I read last night), but with the Coronavirus, patients are having to spend 20-30 says on the ventilator. This is definitely a contributor to the ventilator shortage and is something that definitely could not have been anticipated.

WarrenPeace said:

---

It's so effin stupid. Absolutely ridiculous. It's like they are conditioning us for Socialism. Never thought I'd see the day where you can't go to church, can't go to work, can't go to school, can't go get a haircut, can't go out to eat, and can't have a kids birthday party. Over what? 77 people in the hospital. Ridiculous.

---

Ever been in a Pandemic before?