Also...so funny how vaccinated people are still afraid of unvaccinated people. Wasn't your injection supposed to make you immune? So the vaccine doesn't even work?

Of course, I understand what they are saying about how the vaccine basically just "helps your body fight covid once you get it".

But they admit that vaccinated people will still contract and spread the virus. Sooooo...that means that vaccinated people are facing no more of a threat from unvaxxed people than vaxxed people. They can still contract it from both groups.

There is no legitimate reason for different rules for vaxxed vs unvaxxed.

Civilized said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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I know this should be obvious, but it bears repeating. There are very legitimate reasons for people to refuse vaccination. Many people, for example, are allergic to or otherwise know they can be harmed by vaccines. Other people have religious beliefs that prohibit them from taking vaccines.

People have the right to refuse vaccines. People have the right to decide what is injected into their own bodies. "My body my choice", right? People should be able to refuse them for ANY reason.

The CDC and government is now trying to classify people who choose not to be injected as akin to second-class citizens.

---

Not second-class citizens.

They're just treating them like unvaccinated citizens.

Vaccinated citizens are not vectors the way that unvaxxed citizens are.

You can't have it both ways.

You want the freedom to not get vaxxed. Perfectly fine, fair, and reasonable.

But you can't also expect us all to pretend like there aren't different risks and societal costs associated with not vaccinating, or to not adapt behaviors to account for the different risk profiles depending on vax status.

---

Unvaxxed people are no more of a threat to spread the virus than vaxxed people.

And if vaxxed people are scared of unvaxxed people, it just shows that they know that the vaccine doesn't actually make them immune or provide any good amount of protection.

Regardless of what anyone thinks, the government should not have the power to do what they are doing with mask mandates and lockdowns. These things are a violation of our constitutional rights.

Civilized said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

---

I know this should be obvious, but it bears repeating. There are very legitimate reasons for people to refuse vaccination. Many people, for example, are allergic to or otherwise know they can be harmed by vaccines. Other people have religious beliefs that prohibit them from taking vaccines.

People have the right to refuse vaccines. People have the right to decide what is injected into their own bodies. "My body my choice", right? People should be able to refuse them for ANY reason.

The CDC and government is now trying to classify people who choose not to be injected as akin to second-class citizens.

---

Not second-class citizens.

They're just treating them like unvaccinated citizens.

Vaccinated citizens are not vectors the way that unvaxxed citizens are.

You can't have it both ways.

You want the freedom to not get vaxxed. Perfectly fine, fair, and reasonable.

But you can't also expect us all to pretend like there aren't different risks and societal costs associated with not vaccinating, or to not adapt behaviors to account for the different risk profiles depending on vax status.

---

You will have to "pretend" everyone is vaccinated that isn't wearing masks. Unless you think people need to show their papers, or wear armbands, or a "V" or "U". You also cant have it both ways.

packgrad said:

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Civilized said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

---

I know this should be obvious, but it bears repeating. There are very legitimate reasons for people to refuse vaccination. Many people, for example, are allergic to or otherwise know they can be harmed by vaccines. Other people have religious beliefs that prohibit them from taking vaccines.

People have the right to refuse vaccines. People have the right to decide what is injected into their own bodies. "My body my choice", right? People should be able to refuse them for ANY reason.

The CDC and government is now trying to classify people who choose not to be injected as akin to second-class citizens.

---

Not second-class citizens.

They're just treating them like unvaccinated citizens.

Vaccinated citizens are not vectors the way that unvaxxed citizens are.

You can't have it both ways.

You want the freedom to not get vaxxed. Perfectly fine, fair, and reasonable.

But you can't also expect us all to pretend like there aren't different risks and societal costs associated with not vaccinating, or to not adapt behaviors to account for the different risk profiles depending on vax status.

---

You will have to "pretend" everyone is vaccinated that isn't wearing masks. Unless you think people need to show their papers, or wear armbands, or a "V" or "U". You also cant have it both ways.

---

I'm not the one complaining that the unvaxxed are made to feel second class.

I'm telling GP not to pretend like the risks to society posed by unvaxxed and vaxxed people are the same.

You don't want to get vaxxed, too bad, I wish you would but I can't control it.

But if you don't I definitely don't have any expectation that the CDC buries their head in the sand about the realities of risk for unvaxxed and vaxxed Americans.

You keep alleging that unvaxxed people are "more if a threat". But where is the proof of that?

Vaxxed people can still contract and spread the virus. And I presume at virtually the same rate as unvaxxed people.

PackPA2015 said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

---

I know this should be obvious, but it bears repeating. There are very legitimate reasons for people to refuse vaccination. Many people, for example, are allergic to or otherwise know they can be harmed by vaccines. Other people have religious beliefs that prohibit them from taking vaccines.

People have the right to refuse vaccines. People have the right to decide what is injected into their own bodies. "My body my choice", right? People should be able to refuse them for ANY reason.

The CDC and government is now trying to classify people who choose not to be injected as akin to second-class citizens.

---

This is true. I have a personal example. Our lady that works in our lab has religious reasons to refuse all vaccinations including the one for COVID-19. She understands her risks working in a medical clinic. She is required by our hospital system to wear a mask during flu season since she does not receive the influenza vaccine. She enjoys it, because it gives her an opportunity to discuss her faith when patients ask why she has to wear a mask.

Now, clearly, not every interaction will go that way. The majority of the individuals who do not want the vaccine (at least in my area and from what I hear from other providers in other areas) are not typically the ones who are masking anyways so they are not exactly following the mandates in the first place. Now, the ones who decline for health or religious reasons, that is a different ball game. Not sure how you address it without there being somewhat of a divide, honestly.

---

As I mentioned in the past, my son's school (Wake Forest) will require all students to be vaccinated by the time classes resume in the Fall. The two exemptions are for health reasons (some people are not able to be vaccinated) and "documented" religious exemptions. Just saying your religion does not allow it is not enough justification. You have to submit paperwork to the university with documentation as to the reason it is not allowed.

His university can do this and it is Constitutional. His university is a private institution and as a private institution, they can require it as long as you provide the exemptions I listed. If students do not like it, they are free to go to another school. Of course, my son is vaccinated. He got the vaccine a week before I did. The same thing applies to private businesses. They can require it, as long as they provide the exemptions I mentioned.

Personally, I am not afraid to catch the virus from an unvaccinated person. Encouraging people to be vaccinated has nothing to do with my fear of catching the virus from others. My reasons are more scientific and less personal:

1) The more people we get vaccinated, the less places the virus has to go. We know from the virology that limiting the virus's ability to find a home will limit its ability to mutate and if you can limit mutation, you can decrease the chance the virus will allude the vaccines.
2) Unvaccinated people who get infected have the potential to spread it to older people who also chose to not get vaccinated and it is the older population I am most concerned about getting infected.

We know from the science and data that vaccinated people are unlikely to transmit the virus to others. Additionally, we know the vaccines are extremely effective in preventing infection. Here is a link to a recent study, showing the effectiveness of the vaccine to limit transmission of the virus for vaccinated people:

Association Between Vaccination With BNT162b2 and Incidence of Symptomatic and Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infections Among Health Care Workers

Mormad said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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Also...so funny how vaccinated people are still afraid of unvaccinated people. Wasn't your injection supposed to make you immune? So the vaccine doesn't even work?

Of course, I understand what they are saying about how the vaccine basically just "helps your body fight covid once you get it".

But they admit that vaccinated people will still contract and spread the virus. Sooooo...that means that vaccinated people are facing no more of a threat from unvaxxed people than vaxxed people. They can still contract it from both groups.

There is no legitimate reason for different rules for vaxxed vs unvaxxed.

---

Oh, stop. The worry is not the vaxxed- unvaxxed interaction. The worry would remain the unvaxxed putting the unvaxxed at risk. So they are SUGGESTING that the unvaxxed should continue to mitigate risk as they have been doing (one would hope) by masking, social distancing and washing their hands because they are still at risk when around other unvaxxed people.

People bemoan the lack of common sense and "science" with every ****ing decision, and then a decision comes down that finally makes some ****ing sense and they still piss and moan.

---

Even vaxxed people can still contract and spread the virus. People who have been jabbed are still a "risk" to everyone...just as big of a "risk" as unvaxxed people.

So shouldn't vaxxed people still be wearing masks too by the CDC's fallacious resoning?

Mormad said:

---

People laud bribing those willing to get vaccinated with a million bucks in a lotto, but cry over rewarding those who are willing to get vaxxed by offering them the very freedoms the vaccine is meant to offer us. Seems so silly. "Science" and"data" my arse.

---

Who are these "people"?

Mormad said:

---

People laud bribing those willing to get vaccinated with a million bucks in a lotto, but cry over rewarding those who are willing to get vaxxed by offering them the very freedoms the vaccine is meant to offer us. Seems so silly. "Science" and"data" my arse.

---

So now vaccines "give us freedom"? God gives us our freedom. And no government can withhold my freedom or take it away because I don't want to be injected with a mystery concoction of chemicals and biological matter.

Who the hell said an "injection" was going to make people immune? Not a single person that knows anything worth a crap has said it makes you immune. You've used that line multiple times. We get it. You are 10000% against the vaccine and that's fine. That's your choice, but don't continue to stay the same flse thing over and over about some immunity because of the vaccine.

Mormad said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

---

Mormad said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Also...so funny how vaccinated people are still afraid of unvaccinated people. Wasn't your injection supposed to make you immune? So the vaccine doesn't even work?

Of course, I understand what they are saying about how the vaccine basically just "helps your body fight covid once you get it".

But they admit that vaccinated people will still contract and spread the virus. Sooooo...that means that vaccinated people are facing no more of a threat from unvaxxed people than vaxxed people. They can still contract it from both groups.

There is no legitimate reason for different rules for vaxxed vs unvaxxed.

---

Oh, stop. The worry is not the vaxxed- unvaxxed interaction. The worry would remain the unvaxxed putting the unvaxxed at risk. So they are SUGGESTING that the unvaxxed should continue to mitigate risk as they have been doing (one would hope) by masking, social distancing and washing their hands because they are still at risk when around other unvaxxed people.

People bemoan the lack of common sense and "science" with every ****ing decision, and then a decision comes down that finally makes some ****ing sense and they still piss and moan.

---

Even vaxxed people can still contract and spread the virus. People who have been jabbed are still a "risk" to everyone...just as big of a "risk" as unvaxxed people.

So shouldn't vaxxed people still be wearing masks too by the CDC's fallacious resoning?

---

You're just wrong. Flat wrong. Most believe AT PRESENT that vaxxed are SIGNIFICANTLY lower risk of contracting and transmitting the virus. Same risk is the only fallacy l see.

---

"Most believe"? Who exactly? Fauci and the CDC bureaucrats? Belief by these people means nothing.

But IF this is true and now vaxxed people are "so protected", then why should they be afraid of unvaxxed people?

Mormad said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Mormad said:

---

People laud bribing those willing to get vaccinated with a million bucks in a lotto, but cry over rewarding those who are willing to get vaxxed by offering them the very freedoms the vaccine is meant to offer us. Seems so silly. "Science" and"data" my arse.

---

Who are these "people"?

---

Geez, man, read the last page. Or are you going to argue with me for the sake of arguing?

---

I don't see "people" doing what you're saying at all, but please proceed.

PackPA2015 said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Mormad said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Mormad said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Also...so funny how vaccinated people are still afraid of unvaccinated people. Wasn't your injection supposed to make you immune? So the vaccine doesn't even work?

Of course, I understand what they are saying about how the vaccine basically just "helps your body fight covid once you get it".

But they admit that vaccinated people will still contract and spread the virus. Sooooo...that means that vaccinated people are facing no more of a threat from unvaxxed people than vaxxed people. They can still contract it from both groups.

There is no legitimate reason for different rules for vaxxed vs unvaxxed.

---

Oh, stop. The worry is not the vaxxed- unvaxxed interaction. The worry would remain the unvaxxed putting the unvaxxed at risk. So they are SUGGESTING that the unvaxxed should continue to mitigate risk as they have been doing (one would hope) by masking, social distancing and washing their hands because they are still at risk when around other unvaxxed people.

People bemoan the lack of common sense and "science" with every ****ing decision, and then a decision comes down that finally makes some ****ing sense and they still piss and moan.

---

Even vaxxed people can still contract and spread the virus. People who have been jabbed are still a "risk" to everyone...just as big of a "risk" as unvaxxed people.

So shouldn't vaxxed people still be wearing masks too by the CDC's fallacious resoning?

---

You're just wrong. Flat wrong. Most believe AT PRESENT that vaxxed are SIGNIFICANTLY lower risk of contracting and transmitting the virus. Same risk is the only fallacy l see.

---

"Most believe"? Who exactly? Fauci and the CDC bureaucrats? Belief by these people means nothing.

But IF this is true and now vaxxed people are "so protected", then why should they be afraid of unvaxxed people?

---

He said unvaxxed should be afraid of other unvaxxed, since that will be the remaining transmission, hospitalizations, and deaths due to the high efficacy of the vaccination.

---

Unvaxxed people aren't afraid at all...because we know this Scamdemic is a fraud, and the threat is nothing more serious than the seasonal flu.

So just let us unvaxxed people live our lives, knowing the risk. We don't want or need Big Brother government to hold our hand and "protect" us.

It is nice to see our Centers for Disease Control finally embrace science.

packgrad said:

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It is nice to see our Centers for Disease Control finally embrace science.

---

I agree. I read an article last night about how conservative the CDC can be and in this case, slow to move on the science. I think Covid-19 was so awful from a hospitalizations and deaths standpoint, it made them even more conservative than usual. The new guidelines make if very clear that the science is correct and vaccinated people are protected and do not need masks for this protection.

packgrad said:

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It is nice to see our Centers for Disease Control finally embrace science.

---

LOL.

Mormad said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Also...so funny how vaccinated people are still afraid of unvaccinated people. Wasn't your injection supposed to make you immune? So the vaccine doesn't even work?

Of course, I understand what they are saying about how the vaccine basically just "helps your body fight covid once you get it".

But they admit that vaccinated people will still contract and spread the virus. Sooooo...that means that vaccinated people are facing no more of a threat from unvaxxed people than vaxxed people. They can still contract it from both groups.

There is no legitimate reason for different rules for vaxxed vs unvaxxed.

---

Oh, stop. The worry is not the vaxxed- unvaxxed interaction. The worry would remain the unvaxxed putting the unvaxxed at risk. So they are SUGGESTING that the unvaxxed should continue to mitigate risk as they have been doing (one would hope) by masking, social distancing and washing their hands because they are still at risk when around other unvaxxed people.

People bemoan the lack of common sense and "science" with every ****ing decision, and then a decision comes down that finally makes some ****ing sense and they still piss and moan.

---

I've been wanting to say this for the last hour.

I'm gun-shy about using the word 'science' around here since it would elicit predictable and not altogether unwarranted pushback given uneven government and MSM messaging over the last year but like my science teacher wife's shirt says "Science is true whether or not you believe in it!"

Fauci/the CDC are damned if they do and damned if they don't at this point.

packgrad said:

---

Mormad said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Mormad said:

---

People laud bribing those willing to get vaccinated with a million bucks in a lotto, but cry over rewarding those who are willing to get vaxxed by offering them the very freedoms the vaccine is meant to offer us. Seems so silly. "Science" and"data" my arse.

---

Who are these "people"?

---

Geez, man, read the last page. Or are you going to argue with me for the sake of arguing?

---

I don't see "people" doing what you're saying at all, but please proceed.

---

Whatever. You want to say "person?" I was trying to be nice in my frustration, and i think you know that. Gawd, i'd hate to play poker against you, buddy. Haha

PackPA2015 said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

PackPA2015 said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Mormad said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Mormad said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Also...so funny how vaccinated people are still afraid of unvaccinated people. Wasn't your injection supposed to make you immune? So the vaccine doesn't even work?

Of course, I understand what they are saying about how the vaccine basically just "helps your body fight covid once you get it".

But they admit that vaccinated people will still contract and spread the virus. Sooooo...that means that vaccinated people are facing no more of a threat from unvaxxed people than vaxxed people. They can still contract it from both groups.

There is no legitimate reason for different rules for vaxxed vs unvaxxed.

---

Oh, stop. The worry is not the vaxxed- unvaxxed interaction. The worry would remain the unvaxxed putting the unvaxxed at risk. So they are SUGGESTING that the unvaxxed should continue to mitigate risk as they have been doing (one would hope) by masking, social distancing and washing their hands because they are still at risk when around other unvaxxed people.

People bemoan the lack of common sense and "science" with every ****ing decision, and then a decision comes down that finally makes some ****ing sense and they still piss and moan.

---

Even vaxxed people can still contract and spread the virus. People who have been jabbed are still a "risk" to everyone...just as big of a "risk" as unvaxxed people.

So shouldn't vaxxed people still be wearing masks too by the CDC's fallacious resoning?

---

You're just wrong. Flat wrong. Most believe AT PRESENT that vaxxed are SIGNIFICANTLY lower risk of contracting and transmitting the virus. Same risk is the only fallacy l see.

---

"Most believe"? Who exactly? Fauci and the CDC bureaucrats? Belief by these people means nothing.

But IF this is true and now vaxxed people are "so protected", then why should they be afraid of unvaxxed people?

---

He said unvaxxed should be afraid of other unvaxxed, since that will be the remaining transmission, hospitalizations, and deaths due to the high efficacy of the vaccination.

---

Unvaxxed people aren't afraid at all...because we know this Scamdemic is a fraud, and the threat is nothing more serious than the seasonal flu.

---

Alright. You are arguing with 2 medical providers that have seen this firsthand. Flu, it is not.

You always ask everyone else for their proof, where is yours? Any peer-reviewed sources?

---

Not sure the flu has ever killed 577,000 people in a year. Even the former SUPREME LEADER said it was 10 times more dangerous than the flu.

I've lost 7 friends in their 30's that I've taught in Sunday School to Covid. I've seen my sister in law in an oxygen tent with Covid. You can shove your seasonal flu theory

Mormad said:

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wilmwolf80 said:

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Getting harder and harder to sift through the back and forth to find the actual information in this thread.

---

Lol

---

It's not far from being locked and moved to the archives

Civilized said:

---

Mormad said:

---

GuerrillaPack said:

---

Also...so funny how vaccinated people are still afraid of unvaccinated people. Wasn't your injection supposed to make you immune? So the vaccine doesn't even work?

Of course, I understand what they are saying about how the vaccine basically just "helps your body fight covid once you get it".

But they admit that vaccinated people will still contract and spread the virus. Sooooo...that means that vaccinated people are facing no more of a threat from unvaxxed people than vaxxed people. They can still contract it from both groups.

There is no legitimate reason for different rules for vaxxed vs unvaxxed.

---

Oh, stop. The worry is not the vaxxed- unvaxxed interaction. The worry would remain the unvaxxed putting the unvaxxed at risk. So they are SUGGESTING that the unvaxxed should continue to mitigate risk as they have been doing (one would hope) by masking, social distancing and washing their hands because they are still at risk when around other unvaxxed people.

People bemoan the lack of common sense and "science" with every ****ing decision, and then a decision comes down that finally makes some ****ing sense and they still piss and moan.

---

I've been wanting to say this for the last hour.

I'm gun-shy about using the word 'science' around here since it would elicit predictable and not altogether unwarranted pushback given uneven government and MSM messaging over the last year but like my science teacher wife's shirt says "Science is true whether or not you believe in it!"

Fauci/the CDC are damned if they do and damned if they don't at this point.

---

The CDC got it right and we should all be happy. Of course, it took away the argument from some that the CDC does not believe vaccines work, so they still require masks. Those people lost a key linchpin in their argument today and they are not happy about it.

On the other side of the spectrum, people on Twitter are arguing that the CDC got it wrong, it is still not safe, and we should all keep wearing masks. I commented on these people earlier.

Thankfully, the vast majority of us are in the middle and are happy with the new guidance and are happy with the new CDC guidance. We now have to wait to see what our state leaders will do with the new guidance.

Mormad said:

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packgrad said:

---

Mormad said:

---

packgrad said:

---

Mormad said:

---

People laud bribing those willing to get vaccinated with a million bucks in a lotto, but cry over rewarding those who are willing to get vaxxed by offering them the very freedoms the vaccine is meant to offer us. Seems so silly. "Science" and"data" my arse.

---

Who are these "people"?

---

Geez, man, read the last page. Or are you going to argue with me for the sake of arguing?

---

I don't see "people" doing what you're saying at all, but please proceed.

---

Whatever. You want to say "person?" I was trying to be nice in my frustration, and i think you know that. Gawd, i'd hate to play poker against you, buddy. Haha

---

Meh. Seemed like a jab elsewhere since he didn't celebrate the million dollar incentive at all. But hey, it's a message board. I don't care either way. I'm an amazing poker player btw. Amazingly bad.