Coronavirus

1,980,868 Views | 19755 Replies | Last: 12 hrs ago by Werewolf
Mormad
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I agree with you. Good info.

I don't have the feeling that the numbers are overly inflated. In fact, i think they're more likely understated because of asymptomatic cases or those that didn't seek care. I do however think they're sensationalized.

Father of a scrub nurse I've worked with for 15 yrs died of covid yesterday, and her mom's in the hospital. Feel so bad for her.

We've now given 4000 vaccines in 10 days

Hospitalizations still on the rise
SupplyChainPack
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TheStorm said:

packgrad said:

Hearing the above hospital's plan it is clear Mandy's directive
"We can't have folks jumping the line and having their families members or friends, board members, donors jumping the line,"
holds no tooth. Hospital administrators should not be at the front of the line.
Have Mandy and Roy not taken that first round yet?
Some animals are more equal than others.
PackMom
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Speaking of flu, I realized I had no idea how a flu test was performed so I looked it up. Appears to be about the same process (to get the sample) as a covid test. Although I've seen a lot of complaints about the covid test (and did not like it myself!), I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about the flu test.
Mormad
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PackMom said:

Speaking of flu, I realized I had no idea how a flu test was performed so I looked it up. Appears to be about the same process (to get the sample) as a covid test. Although I've seen a lot of complaints about the covid test (and did not like it myself!), I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about the flu test.


It seems to me that when they test for flu they gently swab your nostril. When they test for covid they try to tickle your brain thru your nose.
waynecountywolf
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ciscopack said:

ciscopack said:

Has anyone heard from General Gustave Perna in the last 10 days or so? Not that he needs to be in front of the camera but results from his logistics and distribution should be seen easily? What are we, 18,000,000 doses behind the promise? Throw us a bone sir.

Warp Speed - WASHINGTON Even before there was a vaccine, some seasoned doctors and public health experts warned, Cassandra-like, that its distribution would be "a logistical nightmare."

After Week 1 of the rollout, "nightmare" sounds like an apt description.

Dozens of states say they didn't receive nearly the number of promised doses. Pfizer says millions of doses sat in its storerooms because no one from President Donald Trump's Operation Warp Speed task force told them where to ship them. A number of states have few sites that can handle the ultra-cold storage required for the Pfizer product, so, for example, front-line workers in Georgia have had to travel 40 minutes to get a shot. At some hospitals, residents treating COVID patients protested that they had not received the vaccine while administrators did, even though they work from home and don't treat patients.




Where is the Trump Administration????
Fed role was to manufacture and get it to the states and Trump did a good job on this solely.
States are lost at the moment, I am afraid
waynecountywolf
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CLA327 said:

Spot on Davie. My wife worked in a nursing home yesterday that, to date, has had 24 covid deaths. That is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Christmas Eve lunch,assisted living where my dad is living now had Santa walking room to room announced-without a mask that is "strictly" required of everyone. Cases shot up to 11 (plus 1 from week before) Sunday.
Thanks Santa.
PackMom
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LOL! Never had a flu test but concur with your characterization of the covid.
statefan91
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Just heard my grandparents will get Moderna vaccine on 1/15/21. As mentioned they're both 93 so it will be great to get them the shot because my grandmother has been breaking the rules of the community and still going to the store some.

My symptoms haven't changed, energy wise have felt fine and a faint ability to smell. Wife and kids seem to feel fine but thankfully they're all napping now so I have some quiet time haha.
PackMom
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Glad to hear y'all aren't having it too rough. Take it easy and get well soon.
Daviewolf83
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statefan91 said:

Just heard my grandparents will get Moderna vaccine on 1/15/21. As mentioned they're both 93 so it will be great to get them the shot because my grandmother has been breaking the rules of the community and still going to the store some.

My symptoms haven't changed, energy wise have felt fine and a faint ability to smell. Wife and kids seem to feel fine but thankfully they're all napping now so I have some quiet time haha.
My dad is 86, but does not live in long-term care. He has significant health issues that put him at high risk for Covid. He has a couple of people who come to his house twice a day to make sure he has food, clean up around the house and one takes him to doctors appointments as needed. I will feel so much better when he is able to be vaccinated.

He spoke with someone at his county's health department last week. It is a small town and being rural, they are using the Moderna vaccine. He was told to expect to receive the first round in 2 to 3 weeks. They told him they are going to try and vaccinate all the known at risk people over the age of 70 during the month of January. He is happy the vaccine will be the Moderna vaccine. He would prefer a one shot vaccine, but is okay getting two shots.
caryking
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Anybody got thoughts on this?



On the illegal or criminal immigrants…

“they built the country, the reason our economy is growing”

Joe Biden
Everpack
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PackPA2015 said:

TheStorm said:

SupplyChainPack said:

Science sez:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/12/28/mysterious-disappearance-of-flu-in-san-diego-prompted-audit-of-covid-records/


Well anybody with even a half a lick of common sense, knew that this was contributing to driving up the numbers... you can't even get any type of basic malady anymore with it not being reported as "covid-related"... we all know that the virus is real, but we all damn well know that the above is true as well... sometime about five (5) years from now, long after this is all over - the MSM is going to have clear and documented proof that the real numbers are (were) no where even relatively close to what has been getting reported even going back to the very start - and since they'll have a completely new focus / agenda at that point in time, it won't bother them whatsoever to report on it (long after the fact of course)... and as more and more time goes by it's already become more and more obvious that the whole mask thing has been majorly overblown as well. How are all these people still getting sick if they are wearing those magical masks?

Still not experiencing any real "firsthand" knowledge of cases with anybody that I encounter at work, out in the places I routinely visit in the general public, longtime friends, people in my neighborhood, son's and daughters friends and their families - or at home though... definitely seeing more people talking about firsthand knowledge on the site though, including an increase of people getting it themselves... so I know that it's happening, the increase is definitely real, but just wondering when I'm going to start seeing it firsthand.

I'm either doing something wrong or I guess I don't know enough people in the big picture...
We have discussed this previously above, but I think quite a few will respectfully disagree with you. Influenza and COVID-19 are completely different viruses that have completely different tests for them. One does not equal the other.

It is much easier to reduce influenza cases than COVID due to influenza being much less infectious. When widespread virus mitigation strategies went into place in March, influenza cases began to drop precipitously (yes, we do have positive flu cases in the summer months). The CDC recommended giving influenza vaccines earlier than usual and we did. There has been more participation in receiving the flu vaccine this year as compared to previous years. Schools around the country are closed or operating on lower numbers at one time. We see a large percentage of influenza transmission through the school system.

I think it definitely matters whom you have seen have the virus around you. If you see very few cases or mild cases, then it is logical to question the mitigation strategies. However, and you will have to trust us that see the moderate to severe cases daily, that this virus is so different from the flu and affects a lot of folks much more severely than anything the flu has ever thrown at us.

To sum this all up, it take less to reduce flu virus than COVID. Even small changes in participation in virus mitigation strategies makes a huge reduction in the numbers. It is strange, we can all agree on that, but it also makes sense in the larger societal context. Here's a good link that seems to explain it pretty well.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/uritheflu/88676


Sorry, but I refuse to believe any of this. If we had cut flu cases in half I could see your point, but the prevalence of flu has all but disappeared.


PackMom
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If I were pregnant I'd see what my obstetrician thought. Might depend on what stage of pregnancy. I remember seeing that pregnant women were particularly at risk for complications, but that was months ago and I don't know if they still consider that to be the case. It would be a tough call, but not an unreasonable case for delay.

In my case, I will consult my doctors in a few weeks and see what they say, and which one or ones they think would be safe for me, if any.

It's hard for me to understand making medical decisions based on political beliefs.
packgrad
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Everpack said:

PackPA2015 said:

TheStorm said:

SupplyChainPack said:

Science sez:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/12/28/mysterious-disappearance-of-flu-in-san-diego-prompted-audit-of-covid-records/


Well anybody with even a half a lick of common sense, knew that this was contributing to driving up the numbers... you can't even get any type of basic malady anymore with it not being reported as "covid-related"... we all know that the virus is real, but we all damn well know that the above is true as well... sometime about five (5) years from now, long after this is all over - the MSM is going to have clear and documented proof that the real numbers are (were) no where even relatively close to what has been getting reported even going back to the very start - and since they'll have a completely new focus / agenda at that point in time, it won't bother them whatsoever to report on it (long after the fact of course)... and as more and more time goes by it's already become more and more obvious that the whole mask thing has been majorly overblown as well. How are all these people still getting sick if they are wearing those magical masks?

Still not experiencing any real "firsthand" knowledge of cases with anybody that I encounter at work, out in the places I routinely visit in the general public, longtime friends, people in my neighborhood, son's and daughters friends and their families - or at home though... definitely seeing more people talking about firsthand knowledge on the site though, including an increase of people getting it themselves... so I know that it's happening, the increase is definitely real, but just wondering when I'm going to start seeing it firsthand.

I'm either doing something wrong or I guess I don't know enough people in the big picture...
We have discussed this previously above, but I think quite a few will respectfully disagree with you. Influenza and COVID-19 are completely different viruses that have completely different tests for them. One does not equal the other.

It is much easier to reduce influenza cases than COVID due to influenza being much less infectious. When widespread virus mitigation strategies went into place in March, influenza cases began to drop precipitously (yes, we do have positive flu cases in the summer months). The CDC recommended giving influenza vaccines earlier than usual and we did. There has been more participation in receiving the flu vaccine this year as compared to previous years. Schools around the country are closed or operating on lower numbers at one time. We see a large percentage of influenza transmission through the school system.

I think it definitely matters whom you have seen have the virus around you. If you see very few cases or mild cases, then it is logical to question the mitigation strategies. However, and you will have to trust us that see the moderate to severe cases daily, that this virus is so different from the flu and affects a lot of folks much more severely than anything the flu has ever thrown at us.

To sum this all up, it take less to reduce flu virus than COVID. Even small changes in participation in virus mitigation strategies makes a huge reduction in the numbers. It is strange, we can all agree on that, but it also makes sense in the larger societal context. Here's a good link that seems to explain it pretty well.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/uritheflu/88676


Sorry, but I refuse to believe any of this. If we had cut flu cases in half I could see your point, but the prevalence of flu has all but disappeared.





Correct. Countries that were lauded for their culture of mask wearing have never eliminated the flu. Annual flu shot has never eliminated the flu. But this year flu shots, mask wearing, and destroying small businesses eradicated it. Doubtful.
PackPA2015
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That is definitely your prerogative. Do you believe it is just coincidence that flu cases dropped with intitation of virus mitigation strategies?

It shows you how much easier it is to control flu spread if we are really focused on it as compared to COVID. I think we all are not quite understanding risk of transmission of these two viruses. They could not be more different.

We have never been more focused on virus elimination like this before. Previous viral pandemics were much more related to influenza than COVID is.
PackPA2015
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packgrad said:

Everpack said:

PackPA2015 said:

TheStorm said:

SupplyChainPack said:

Science sez:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/12/28/mysterious-disappearance-of-flu-in-san-diego-prompted-audit-of-covid-records/


Well anybody with even a half a lick of common sense, knew that this was contributing to driving up the numbers... you can't even get any type of basic malady anymore with it not being reported as "covid-related"... we all know that the virus is real, but we all damn well know that the above is true as well... sometime about five (5) years from now, long after this is all over - the MSM is going to have clear and documented proof that the real numbers are (were) no where even relatively close to what has been getting reported even going back to the very start - and since they'll have a completely new focus / agenda at that point in time, it won't bother them whatsoever to report on it (long after the fact of course)... and as more and more time goes by it's already become more and more obvious that the whole mask thing has been majorly overblown as well. How are all these people still getting sick if they are wearing those magical masks?

Still not experiencing any real "firsthand" knowledge of cases with anybody that I encounter at work, out in the places I routinely visit in the general public, longtime friends, people in my neighborhood, son's and daughters friends and their families - or at home though... definitely seeing more people talking about firsthand knowledge on the site though, including an increase of people getting it themselves... so I know that it's happening, the increase is definitely real, but just wondering when I'm going to start seeing it firsthand.

I'm either doing something wrong or I guess I don't know enough people in the big picture...
We have discussed this previously above, but I think quite a few will respectfully disagree with you. Influenza and COVID-19 are completely different viruses that have completely different tests for them. One does not equal the other.

It is much easier to reduce influenza cases than COVID due to influenza being much less infectious. When widespread virus mitigation strategies went into place in March, influenza cases began to drop precipitously (yes, we do have positive flu cases in the summer months). The CDC recommended giving influenza vaccines earlier than usual and we did. There has been more participation in receiving the flu vaccine this year as compared to previous years. Schools around the country are closed or operating on lower numbers at one time. We see a large percentage of influenza transmission through the school system.

I think it definitely matters whom you have seen have the virus around you. If you see very few cases or mild cases, then it is logical to question the mitigation strategies. However, and you will have to trust us that see the moderate to severe cases daily, that this virus is so different from the flu and affects a lot of folks much more severely than anything the flu has ever thrown at us.

To sum this all up, it take less to reduce flu virus than COVID. Even small changes in participation in virus mitigation strategies makes a huge reduction in the numbers. It is strange, we can all agree on that, but it also makes sense in the larger societal context. Here's a good link that seems to explain it pretty well.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/uritheflu/88676


Sorry, but I refuse to believe any of this. If we had cut flu cases in half I could see your point, but the prevalence of flu has all but disappeared.





Correct. Countries that were lauded for their culture of mask wearing have never eliminated the flu. Annual flu shot has never eliminated the flu. But this year flu shots, mask wearing, and destroying small businesses eradicated it. Doubtful.


You kind of answered your own question. We gave more flu shots and earlier than ever before. We have had mask mandates all over the country. We have shut down schools. and businesses like never before. You don't see how that could eliminate a relatively poorly transmitted virus like the flu??
Mormad
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I can only theorize exactly why flu has seemingly gone away, but I'm glad it has.

I assume there is suspicion that those with the flu are being labeled as covid for whatever reasons?
Oldsouljer
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Mormad said:

EI can only theorize exactly why flu has seemingly gone away, but I'm glad it has.

I assume there is suspicion that those with the flu are being labeled as covid for whatever reasons?
There's federal money to be made from each reported covid case, not so much from other reasons for hospitalization.

As for influenza, as long as the Chinese pack millions of swine, poultry, and people into filthy, confined spaces, the world's influenza factory will continue to churn out new strains annually.
PackPA2015
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Oldsouljer said:

Mormad said:

EI can only theorize exactly why flu has seemingly gone away, but I'm glad it has.

I assume there is suspicion that those with the flu are being labeled as covid for whatever reasons?
There's federal money to be made from each reported covid case, not so much from other reasons for hospitalization.

As for influenza, as long as the Chinese pack millions of swine, poultry, and people into filthy, confined spaces, the world's influenza factory will continue to churn out new strains annually.


Hospitals don't enter the codes to be sent to insurance/medicaid/medicare. Medical providers do. Providers have absolutely no incentive to code for COVID without a positive test. If you code for COVID without a positive test, you can be charged with fraud and lose your medical license. Why would providers on a large scale risk that??

China enforced very strick lockdowns when this started. Again, influenza is no where close to COVID in terms of transmission efficiency, mortality rate, etc.
packgrad
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PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

Everpack said:

PackPA2015 said:

TheStorm said:

SupplyChainPack said:

Science sez:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/12/28/mysterious-disappearance-of-flu-in-san-diego-prompted-audit-of-covid-records/


Well anybody with even a half a lick of common sense, knew that this was contributing to driving up the numbers... you can't even get any type of basic malady anymore with it not being reported as "covid-related"... we all know that the virus is real, but we all damn well know that the above is true as well... sometime about five (5) years from now, long after this is all over - the MSM is going to have clear and documented proof that the real numbers are (were) no where even relatively close to what has been getting reported even going back to the very start - and since they'll have a completely new focus / agenda at that point in time, it won't bother them whatsoever to report on it (long after the fact of course)... and as more and more time goes by it's already become more and more obvious that the whole mask thing has been majorly overblown as well. How are all these people still getting sick if they are wearing those magical masks?

Still not experiencing any real "firsthand" knowledge of cases with anybody that I encounter at work, out in the places I routinely visit in the general public, longtime friends, people in my neighborhood, son's and daughters friends and their families - or at home though... definitely seeing more people talking about firsthand knowledge on the site though, including an increase of people getting it themselves... so I know that it's happening, the increase is definitely real, but just wondering when I'm going to start seeing it firsthand.

I'm either doing something wrong or I guess I don't know enough people in the big picture...
We have discussed this previously above, but I think quite a few will respectfully disagree with you. Influenza and COVID-19 are completely different viruses that have completely different tests for them. One does not equal the other.

It is much easier to reduce influenza cases than COVID due to influenza being much less infectious. When widespread virus mitigation strategies went into place in March, influenza cases began to drop precipitously (yes, we do have positive flu cases in the summer months). The CDC recommended giving influenza vaccines earlier than usual and we did. There has been more participation in receiving the flu vaccine this year as compared to previous years. Schools around the country are closed or operating on lower numbers at one time. We see a large percentage of influenza transmission through the school system.

I think it definitely matters whom you have seen have the virus around you. If you see very few cases or mild cases, then it is logical to question the mitigation strategies. However, and you will have to trust us that see the moderate to severe cases daily, that this virus is so different from the flu and affects a lot of folks much more severely than anything the flu has ever thrown at us.

To sum this all up, it take less to reduce flu virus than COVID. Even small changes in participation in virus mitigation strategies makes a huge reduction in the numbers. It is strange, we can all agree on that, but it also makes sense in the larger societal context. Here's a good link that seems to explain it pretty well.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/uritheflu/88676


Sorry, but I refuse to believe any of this. If we had cut flu cases in half I could see your point, but the prevalence of flu has all but disappeared.





Correct. Countries that were lauded for their culture of mask wearing have never eliminated the flu. Annual flu shot has never eliminated the flu. But this year flu shots, mask wearing, and destroying small businesses eradicated it. Doubtful.


You kind of answered your own question. We gave more flu shots and earlier than ever before. We have had mask mandates all over the country. We have shut down schools. and businesses like never before. You don't see how that could eliminate a relatively poorly transmitted virus like the flu??


No. I don't believe it has. Also I question why you say the flu is relatively poorly transmitted. Thats certainly a new take from the medical community.
PackPA2015
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packgrad said:

PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

Everpack said:

PackPA2015 said:

TheStorm said:

SupplyChainPack said:

Science sez:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/12/28/mysterious-disappearance-of-flu-in-san-diego-prompted-audit-of-covid-records/


Well anybody with even a half a lick of common sense, knew that this was contributing to driving up the numbers... you can't even get any type of basic malady anymore with it not being reported as "covid-related"... we all know that the virus is real, but we all damn well know that the above is true as well... sometime about five (5) years from now, long after this is all over - the MSM is going to have clear and documented proof that the real numbers are (were) no where even relatively close to what has been getting reported even going back to the very start - and since they'll have a completely new focus / agenda at that point in time, it won't bother them whatsoever to report on it (long after the fact of course)... and as more and more time goes by it's already become more and more obvious that the whole mask thing has been majorly overblown as well. How are all these people still getting sick if they are wearing those magical masks?

Still not experiencing any real "firsthand" knowledge of cases with anybody that I encounter at work, out in the places I routinely visit in the general public, longtime friends, people in my neighborhood, son's and daughters friends and their families - or at home though... definitely seeing more people talking about firsthand knowledge on the site though, including an increase of people getting it themselves... so I know that it's happening, the increase is definitely real, but just wondering when I'm going to start seeing it firsthand.

I'm either doing something wrong or I guess I don't know enough people in the big picture...
We have discussed this previously above, but I think quite a few will respectfully disagree with you. Influenza and COVID-19 are completely different viruses that have completely different tests for them. One does not equal the other.

It is much easier to reduce influenza cases than COVID due to influenza being much less infectious. When widespread virus mitigation strategies went into place in March, influenza cases began to drop precipitously (yes, we do have positive flu cases in the summer months). The CDC recommended giving influenza vaccines earlier than usual and we did. There has been more participation in receiving the flu vaccine this year as compared to previous years. Schools around the country are closed or operating on lower numbers at one time. We see a large percentage of influenza transmission through the school system.

I think it definitely matters whom you have seen have the virus around you. If you see very few cases or mild cases, then it is logical to question the mitigation strategies. However, and you will have to trust us that see the moderate to severe cases daily, that this virus is so different from the flu and affects a lot of folks much more severely than anything the flu has ever thrown at us.

To sum this all up, it take less to reduce flu virus than COVID. Even small changes in participation in virus mitigation strategies makes a huge reduction in the numbers. It is strange, we can all agree on that, but it also makes sense in the larger societal context. Here's a good link that seems to explain it pretty well.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/uritheflu/88676


Sorry, but I refuse to believe any of this. If we had cut flu cases in half I could see your point, but the prevalence of flu has all but disappeared.





Correct. Countries that were lauded for their culture of mask wearing have never eliminated the flu. Annual flu shot has never eliminated the flu. But this year flu shots, mask wearing, and destroying small businesses eradicated it. Doubtful.


You kind of answered your own question. We gave more flu shots and earlier than ever before. We have had mask mandates all over the country. We have shut down schools. and businesses like never before. You don't see how that could eliminate a relatively poorly transmitted virus like the flu??


No. I don't believe it has. Also I question why you say the flu is relatively poorly transmitted. Thats certainly a new take from the medical community.


Relative to COVID. When you see moderate to severe COVID, you know it. Flu just doesn't spread like that. Completely different from the flu.
waynecountywolf
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https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/01/04/the-plague-year

Long article, somewhere in middle explains blood clots, heart attacks from coronavirus
Civilized
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R0 for COVID is 1.5x - 2x the R0 for influenza.

COVID is more contagious than flu for a variety of reasons.
packgrad
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PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

Everpack said:

PackPA2015 said:

TheStorm said:

SupplyChainPack said:

Science sez:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/12/28/mysterious-disappearance-of-flu-in-san-diego-prompted-audit-of-covid-records/


Well anybody with even a half a lick of common sense, knew that this was contributing to driving up the numbers... you can't even get any type of basic malady anymore with it not being reported as "covid-related"... we all know that the virus is real, but we all damn well know that the above is true as well... sometime about five (5) years from now, long after this is all over - the MSM is going to have clear and documented proof that the real numbers are (were) no where even relatively close to what has been getting reported even going back to the very start - and since they'll have a completely new focus / agenda at that point in time, it won't bother them whatsoever to report on it (long after the fact of course)... and as more and more time goes by it's already become more and more obvious that the whole mask thing has been majorly overblown as well. How are all these people still getting sick if they are wearing those magical masks?

Still not experiencing any real "firsthand" knowledge of cases with anybody that I encounter at work, out in the places I routinely visit in the general public, longtime friends, people in my neighborhood, son's and daughters friends and their families - or at home though... definitely seeing more people talking about firsthand knowledge on the site though, including an increase of people getting it themselves... so I know that it's happening, the increase is definitely real, but just wondering when I'm going to start seeing it firsthand.

I'm either doing something wrong or I guess I don't know enough people in the big picture...
We have discussed this previously above, but I think quite a few will respectfully disagree with you. Influenza and COVID-19 are completely different viruses that have completely different tests for them. One does not equal the other.

It is much easier to reduce influenza cases than COVID due to influenza being much less infectious. When widespread virus mitigation strategies went into place in March, influenza cases began to drop precipitously (yes, we do have positive flu cases in the summer months). The CDC recommended giving influenza vaccines earlier than usual and we did. There has been more participation in receiving the flu vaccine this year as compared to previous years. Schools around the country are closed or operating on lower numbers at one time. We see a large percentage of influenza transmission through the school system.

I think it definitely matters whom you have seen have the virus around you. If you see very few cases or mild cases, then it is logical to question the mitigation strategies. However, and you will have to trust us that see the moderate to severe cases daily, that this virus is so different from the flu and affects a lot of folks much more severely than anything the flu has ever thrown at us.

To sum this all up, it take less to reduce flu virus than COVID. Even small changes in participation in virus mitigation strategies makes a huge reduction in the numbers. It is strange, we can all agree on that, but it also makes sense in the larger societal context. Here's a good link that seems to explain it pretty well.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/uritheflu/88676


Sorry, but I refuse to believe any of this. If we had cut flu cases in half I could see your point, but the prevalence of flu has all but disappeared.





Correct. Countries that were lauded for their culture of mask wearing have never eliminated the flu. Annual flu shot has never eliminated the flu. But this year flu shots, mask wearing, and destroying small businesses eradicated it. Doubtful.


You kind of answered your own question. We gave more flu shots and earlier than ever before. We have had mask mandates all over the country. We have shut down schools. and businesses like never before. You don't see how that could eliminate a relatively poorly transmitted virus like the flu??


No. I don't believe it has. Also I question why you say the flu is relatively poorly transmitted. Thats certainly a new take from the medical community.


Relative to COVID. When you see moderate to severe COVID, you know it. Flu just doesn't spread like that. Completely different from the flu.


It seems the biggest difference is that the flu can be eradicated with masks, social distancing, and closing businesses. Covid can't.
PackPA2015
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packgrad said:

PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

Everpack said:

PackPA2015 said:

TheStorm said:

SupplyChainPack said:

Science sez:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/12/28/mysterious-disappearance-of-flu-in-san-diego-prompted-audit-of-covid-records/


Well anybody with even a half a lick of common sense, knew that this was contributing to driving up the numbers... you can't even get any type of basic malady anymore with it not being reported as "covid-related"... we all know that the virus is real, but we all damn well know that the above is true as well... sometime about five (5) years from now, long after this is all over - the MSM is going to have clear and documented proof that the real numbers are (were) no where even relatively close to what has been getting reported even going back to the very start - and since they'll have a completely new focus / agenda at that point in time, it won't bother them whatsoever to report on it (long after the fact of course)... and as more and more time goes by it's already become more and more obvious that the whole mask thing has been majorly overblown as well. How are all these people still getting sick if they are wearing those magical masks?

Still not experiencing any real "firsthand" knowledge of cases with anybody that I encounter at work, out in the places I routinely visit in the general public, longtime friends, people in my neighborhood, son's and daughters friends and their families - or at home though... definitely seeing more people talking about firsthand knowledge on the site though, including an increase of people getting it themselves... so I know that it's happening, the increase is definitely real, but just wondering when I'm going to start seeing it firsthand.

I'm either doing something wrong or I guess I don't know enough people in the big picture...
We have discussed this previously above, but I think quite a few will respectfully disagree with you. Influenza and COVID-19 are completely different viruses that have completely different tests for them. One does not equal the other.

It is much easier to reduce influenza cases than COVID due to influenza being much less infectious. When widespread virus mitigation strategies went into place in March, influenza cases began to drop precipitously (yes, we do have positive flu cases in the summer months). The CDC recommended giving influenza vaccines earlier than usual and we did. There has been more participation in receiving the flu vaccine this year as compared to previous years. Schools around the country are closed or operating on lower numbers at one time. We see a large percentage of influenza transmission through the school system.

I think it definitely matters whom you have seen have the virus around you. If you see very few cases or mild cases, then it is logical to question the mitigation strategies. However, and you will have to trust us that see the moderate to severe cases daily, that this virus is so different from the flu and affects a lot of folks much more severely than anything the flu has ever thrown at us.

To sum this all up, it take less to reduce flu virus than COVID. Even small changes in participation in virus mitigation strategies makes a huge reduction in the numbers. It is strange, we can all agree on that, but it also makes sense in the larger societal context. Here's a good link that seems to explain it pretty well.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/uritheflu/88676


Sorry, but I refuse to believe any of this. If we had cut flu cases in half I could see your point, but the prevalence of flu has all but disappeared.





Correct. Countries that were lauded for their culture of mask wearing have never eliminated the flu. Annual flu shot has never eliminated the flu. But this year flu shots, mask wearing, and destroying small businesses eradicated it. Doubtful.


You kind of answered your own question. We gave more flu shots and earlier than ever before. We have had mask mandates all over the country. We have shut down schools. and businesses like never before. You don't see how that could eliminate a relatively poorly transmitted virus like the flu??


No. I don't believe it has. Also I question why you say the flu is relatively poorly transmitted. Thats certainly a new take from the medical community.


Relative to COVID. When you see moderate to severe COVID, you know it. Flu just doesn't spread like that. Completely different from the flu.


It seems the biggest difference is that the flu can be eradicated with masks, social distancing, and closing businesses. Covid can't.


There are many, many more differences. Take mortality rate for one.

Let's celebrate that the flu has been decreased to all time lows and we have limited COVID as much as possible to this point.
packgrad
How long do you want to ignore this user?
PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

Everpack said:

PackPA2015 said:

TheStorm said:

SupplyChainPack said:

Science sez:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/12/28/mysterious-disappearance-of-flu-in-san-diego-prompted-audit-of-covid-records/


Well anybody with even a half a lick of common sense, knew that this was contributing to driving up the numbers... you can't even get any type of basic malady anymore with it not being reported as "covid-related"... we all know that the virus is real, but we all damn well know that the above is true as well... sometime about five (5) years from now, long after this is all over - the MSM is going to have clear and documented proof that the real numbers are (were) no where even relatively close to what has been getting reported even going back to the very start - and since they'll have a completely new focus / agenda at that point in time, it won't bother them whatsoever to report on it (long after the fact of course)... and as more and more time goes by it's already become more and more obvious that the whole mask thing has been majorly overblown as well. How are all these people still getting sick if they are wearing those magical masks?

Still not experiencing any real "firsthand" knowledge of cases with anybody that I encounter at work, out in the places I routinely visit in the general public, longtime friends, people in my neighborhood, son's and daughters friends and their families - or at home though... definitely seeing more people talking about firsthand knowledge on the site though, including an increase of people getting it themselves... so I know that it's happening, the increase is definitely real, but just wondering when I'm going to start seeing it firsthand.

I'm either doing something wrong or I guess I don't know enough people in the big picture...
We have discussed this previously above, but I think quite a few will respectfully disagree with you. Influenza and COVID-19 are completely different viruses that have completely different tests for them. One does not equal the other.

It is much easier to reduce influenza cases than COVID due to influenza being much less infectious. When widespread virus mitigation strategies went into place in March, influenza cases began to drop precipitously (yes, we do have positive flu cases in the summer months). The CDC recommended giving influenza vaccines earlier than usual and we did. There has been more participation in receiving the flu vaccine this year as compared to previous years. Schools around the country are closed or operating on lower numbers at one time. We see a large percentage of influenza transmission through the school system.

I think it definitely matters whom you have seen have the virus around you. If you see very few cases or mild cases, then it is logical to question the mitigation strategies. However, and you will have to trust us that see the moderate to severe cases daily, that this virus is so different from the flu and affects a lot of folks much more severely than anything the flu has ever thrown at us.

To sum this all up, it take less to reduce flu virus than COVID. Even small changes in participation in virus mitigation strategies makes a huge reduction in the numbers. It is strange, we can all agree on that, but it also makes sense in the larger societal context. Here's a good link that seems to explain it pretty well.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/uritheflu/88676


Sorry, but I refuse to believe any of this. If we had cut flu cases in half I could see your point, but the prevalence of flu has all but disappeared.





Correct. Countries that were lauded for their culture of mask wearing have never eliminated the flu. Annual flu shot has never eliminated the flu. But this year flu shots, mask wearing, and destroying small businesses eradicated it. Doubtful.


You kind of answered your own question. We gave more flu shots and earlier than ever before. We have had mask mandates all over the country. We have shut down schools. and businesses like never before. You don't see how that could eliminate a relatively poorly transmitted virus like the flu??


No. I don't believe it has. Also I question why you say the flu is relatively poorly transmitted. Thats certainly a new take from the medical community.


Relative to COVID. When you see moderate to severe COVID, you know it. Flu just doesn't spread like that. Completely different from the flu.


It seems the biggest difference is that the flu can be eradicated with masks, social distancing, and closing businesses. Covid can't.


There are many, many more differences. Take mortality rate for one.

Let's celebrate that the flu has been decreased to all time lows and we have limited COVID as much as possible to this point.


But the biggest difference is that we can eradicate a virus that has never been done before in history. Amazing.
Mormad
How long do you want to ignore this user?
packgrad said:

PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

Everpack said:

PackPA2015 said:

TheStorm said:

SupplyChainPack said:

Science sez:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/12/28/mysterious-disappearance-of-flu-in-san-diego-prompted-audit-of-covid-records/


Well anybody with even a half a lick of common sense, knew that this was contributing to driving up the numbers... you can't even get any type of basic malady anymore with it not being reported as "covid-related"... we all know that the virus is real, but we all damn well know that the above is true as well... sometime about five (5) years from now, long after this is all over - the MSM is going to have clear and documented proof that the real numbers are (were) no where even relatively close to what has been getting reported even going back to the very start - and since they'll have a completely new focus / agenda at that point in time, it won't bother them whatsoever to report on it (long after the fact of course)... and as more and more time goes by it's already become more and more obvious that the whole mask thing has been majorly overblown as well. How are all these people still getting sick if they are wearing those magical masks?

Still not experiencing any real "firsthand" knowledge of cases with anybody that I encounter at work, out in the places I routinely visit in the general public, longtime friends, people in my neighborhood, son's and daughters friends and their families - or at home though... definitely seeing more people talking about firsthand knowledge on the site though, including an increase of people getting it themselves... so I know that it's happening, the increase is definitely real, but just wondering when I'm going to start seeing it firsthand.

I'm either doing something wrong or I guess I don't know enough people in the big picture...
We have discussed this previously above, but I think quite a few will respectfully disagree with you. Influenza and COVID-19 are completely different viruses that have completely different tests for them. One does not equal the other.

It is much easier to reduce influenza cases than COVID due to influenza being much less infectious. When widespread virus mitigation strategies went into place in March, influenza cases began to drop precipitously (yes, we do have positive flu cases in the summer months). The CDC recommended giving influenza vaccines earlier than usual and we did. There has been more participation in receiving the flu vaccine this year as compared to previous years. Schools around the country are closed or operating on lower numbers at one time. We see a large percentage of influenza transmission through the school system.

I think it definitely matters whom you have seen have the virus around you. If you see very few cases or mild cases, then it is logical to question the mitigation strategies. However, and you will have to trust us that see the moderate to severe cases daily, that this virus is so different from the flu and affects a lot of folks much more severely than anything the flu has ever thrown at us.

To sum this all up, it take less to reduce flu virus than COVID. Even small changes in participation in virus mitigation strategies makes a huge reduction in the numbers. It is strange, we can all agree on that, but it also makes sense in the larger societal context. Here's a good link that seems to explain it pretty well.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/uritheflu/88676


Sorry, but I refuse to believe any of this. If we had cut flu cases in half I could see your point, but the prevalence of flu has all but disappeared.





Correct. Countries that were lauded for their culture of mask wearing have never eliminated the flu. Annual flu shot has never eliminated the flu. But this year flu shots, mask wearing, and destroying small businesses eradicated it. Doubtful.


You kind of answered your own question. We gave more flu shots and earlier than ever before. We have had mask mandates all over the country. We have shut down schools. and businesses like never before. You don't see how that could eliminate a relatively poorly transmitted virus like the flu??


No. I don't believe it has. Also I question why you say the flu is relatively poorly transmitted. Thats certainly a new take from the medical community.


Relative to COVID. When you see moderate to severe COVID, you know it. Flu just doesn't spread like that. Completely different from the flu.


It seems the biggest difference is that the flu can be eradicated with masks, social distancing, and closing businesses. Covid can't.


Haha. You crack me up, my brutha! And once again, there's some truth in there!

I know i can get testy at times, but i love coming to IPS and reading this stuff. I wish we could have these discussions while sampling tasty bourbons!
packgrad
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mormad said:

packgrad said:

PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

PackPA2015 said:

packgrad said:

Everpack said:

PackPA2015 said:

TheStorm said:

SupplyChainPack said:

Science sez:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/12/28/mysterious-disappearance-of-flu-in-san-diego-prompted-audit-of-covid-records/


Well anybody with even a half a lick of common sense, knew that this was contributing to driving up the numbers... you can't even get any type of basic malady anymore with it not being reported as "covid-related"... we all know that the virus is real, but we all damn well know that the above is true as well... sometime about five (5) years from now, long after this is all over - the MSM is going to have clear and documented proof that the real numbers are (were) no where even relatively close to what has been getting reported even going back to the very start - and since they'll have a completely new focus / agenda at that point in time, it won't bother them whatsoever to report on it (long after the fact of course)... and as more and more time goes by it's already become more and more obvious that the whole mask thing has been majorly overblown as well. How are all these people still getting sick if they are wearing those magical masks?

Still not experiencing any real "firsthand" knowledge of cases with anybody that I encounter at work, out in the places I routinely visit in the general public, longtime friends, people in my neighborhood, son's and daughters friends and their families - or at home though... definitely seeing more people talking about firsthand knowledge on the site though, including an increase of people getting it themselves... so I know that it's happening, the increase is definitely real, but just wondering when I'm going to start seeing it firsthand.

I'm either doing something wrong or I guess I don't know enough people in the big picture...
We have discussed this previously above, but I think quite a few will respectfully disagree with you. Influenza and COVID-19 are completely different viruses that have completely different tests for them. One does not equal the other.

It is much easier to reduce influenza cases than COVID due to influenza being much less infectious. When widespread virus mitigation strategies went into place in March, influenza cases began to drop precipitously (yes, we do have positive flu cases in the summer months). The CDC recommended giving influenza vaccines earlier than usual and we did. There has been more participation in receiving the flu vaccine this year as compared to previous years. Schools around the country are closed or operating on lower numbers at one time. We see a large percentage of influenza transmission through the school system.

I think it definitely matters whom you have seen have the virus around you. If you see very few cases or mild cases, then it is logical to question the mitigation strategies. However, and you will have to trust us that see the moderate to severe cases daily, that this virus is so different from the flu and affects a lot of folks much more severely than anything the flu has ever thrown at us.

To sum this all up, it take less to reduce flu virus than COVID. Even small changes in participation in virus mitigation strategies makes a huge reduction in the numbers. It is strange, we can all agree on that, but it also makes sense in the larger societal context. Here's a good link that seems to explain it pretty well.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/uritheflu/88676


Sorry, but I refuse to believe any of this. If we had cut flu cases in half I could see your point, but the prevalence of flu has all but disappeared.





Correct. Countries that were lauded for their culture of mask wearing have never eliminated the flu. Annual flu shot has never eliminated the flu. But this year flu shots, mask wearing, and destroying small businesses eradicated it. Doubtful.


You kind of answered your own question. We gave more flu shots and earlier than ever before. We have had mask mandates all over the country. We have shut down schools. and businesses like never before. You don't see how that could eliminate a relatively poorly transmitted virus like the flu??


No. I don't believe it has. Also I question why you say the flu is relatively poorly transmitted. Thats certainly a new take from the medical community.


Relative to COVID. When you see moderate to severe COVID, you know it. Flu just doesn't spread like that. Completely different from the flu.


It seems the biggest difference is that the flu can be eradicated with masks, social distancing, and closing businesses. Covid can't.


Haha. You crack me up, my brutha! And once again, there's some truth in there!

I know i can get testy at times, but i love coming to IPS and reading this stuff. I wish we could have these discussions while sampling tasty bourbons!


Cheers to that.
Mormad
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Oldsouljer said:

Mormad said:

EI can only theorize exactly why flu has seemingly gone away, but I'm glad it has.

I assume there is suspicion that those with the flu are being labeled as covid for whatever reasons?
There's federal money to be made from each reported covid case, not so much from other reasons for hospitalization.

As for influenza, as long as the Chinese pack millions of swine, poultry, and people into filthy, confined spaces, the world's influenza factory will continue to churn out new strains annually.



PackPA is right. The docs aren't making anything off of covid, and they're the ones making the decisions. So it's not Medicare money for sure. The administrators aren't standing over us telling us what to do.

Docs and administrators are typically adversarial. We're seen as cost centers. But hospitals make squat on routine medical admissions. They lose sht loads on covid. Here's why:

1. They're paid a lump sum for a DRG based on diagnosis with small upticks for covid, complex medical history, comorbidities.

2. During that admission, they're accumulating costs.

3. The key is discharging patients before they cost more than the hospital gets paid, right?

4. A covid patient getting oxygen on the floor for a week loses money. The complexity isn't high enough, but it's the most expensive hotel in the world. An intubated icu patient with covid is usually tubed for 3 wks... There's no way insurance pays enough to cover that expense. The hospital is getting raped in that scenario. That's huge money getting burned every day for patients that die at an alarming rate. The hospital might get paid 20k for a cost well into the 6 figures. The hospital gets paid more for covid because the government knows that the costs of care have skyrocketed. And when the gubmint calculates payments, they build in costs as a factor. The gubmint aint paying hospitals more so hospitals can commit fraud and get rich ( and go to jail when caught). They're just covering a little of the cost of taking care of these sick ass pts.

5. The hospital makes money on procedures, especially heart and spine surgery and head trauma. The hospital needs surgery to be done. That's where they rake it in. Not on non procedural admits.

6. Covid admissions limit procedures, and therefore cost the hospital money. Huge money. YUGE money.


All of this is transparent ever since Nobama. You can Google any hospital and find out what Medicare pays for any diagnosis or procedure.

Covid numbers aren't largely being inflated by the doctors who are directly responsible for documentation and yet have no real motivation to do so. Politicians and administrators aren't signing jack. Covid limits our ability to make money by limiting care for those without covid, and puts us at risk of getting sick with every interaction. We are no fanboys of covid. We want it out of our hospitals and our lives, and we're compensated relatively well so many are conservative like you and I so there's no political incentive.

And the tests aren't exactly lying. They may have false positives or false negatives, but a flu test is finding a different virus than a covid test, and science has proven the covid virus exists.

I could be off on some details, but this is my understanding.

PackPA2015
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Preach brother.
Mormad
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https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2774712

JD discussing legal and ethical issues of vaccine mandates.
Mormad
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https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra2035343?query=featured_home

Really good article about maintaining safety of covid vaccines.
Mormad
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https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/vinay-prasad/90445

You guys are gonna LOVE this, i think. Really well written opinion piece about Fauci and other scientists trying to shape behavior or policy with their words and the consequences of such.
Everpack
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Have you been out in public lately? The only way you can tell there's a pandemic is people wearing masks. People are traveling, shopping, dining, etc. as they please. The only difference is 99% mask adherence in public places. The same masks that we've been told for the last forever years do not help control the spread of influenza. Now, if you've got data that we increased flu shots by 95% since august, maybe that's it, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that's the case. Again, I'm not discrediting our actions having an effect on the prevalence of the flu, but there's zero possibility it accounts for the eradication of all strains of that virus while SARS-COV2 runs rampant in every state, regardless of NPI's, geography or demographics.
Mormad
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Yeah, it's really weird to me, too. I admit it. And I think our current community and medical practices have had a great influence on the incidence of flu, but i never expected this. What do think the reason(s) for such low numbers of flu may be, either true or artificial? I'll try to ask some ID or pulm docs and read up on it when i can.
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