EthanBarry said:

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I wish we had this much traffic on the baseball boards when we were #2 in the country

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Packsd14me said:

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CTLWolf,

I agree about injuries hurting the pitching staff. Pitarra's injury hurt, too. Yes, I played long ago and coached young men for many years. Sent players to State (sort of) he signed with the Astros and never made it Raleigh. UNC, UNC-A, UNC-C, UNC-G, and many smaller schools. I saw both DJ and Ethan pitch many times. Great kids.I saw them both play outfield, too. They were college pitchers. That's my point about Avent playing good players out of position. Ratledge made his name at the plate, not at shortstop. I saw him in high school, too. He was not the best defensive shortstop, even in high school. The Pirates moved him to left and DH. My point is we have to play both sides of the ball to win, not just offense. McLain and Wilson are very good hitters. So is Bailey. They have to be taught situational hitting. We have always been lacking in what I call "team play" on offense since Avent has been here. Giving yourself up for the sake of the team.I once saw a 2-1 game in wooden bat summer league for college players where a little second baseman fought off multiple Wake Forest pitcher's inside (to force a ball to the left side) 90 plus mile per hour fast balls with a runner on second until the second baseman forced an inside pitch to the right side resulting 3 hopper between first and second. The second baseman from Catawba made a nice play on the grass in right field and retired him 4-3. The next batter hit a lazy fly to right field scoring the runner. That made the score 2-1 at the time and it held up. After the game, the Braves scout stopped the second baseman (who was sad that he only went 1-3 in the game) and told him he had the most important at bat of the game and congratulated him on "understanding how to win". His face beamed. We don't do those things and haven't much with Avent. We did with Tanner and Esposito. Brent Williams was a very underrated part of the CWS team. Speed at the top and defense in the outfield. McLain was comparable. Both he and Wilson can hit. Bailey is going to be a wealthy catcher barring injury. Edwards has power but is inconsistent. He needs to watch Freeman of the Braves and hit the ball to left more. Kinneman and Deathrage are even worse at trying to pull the ball but they could be very good with a few adjustments. They found a whole in Tatums' swing and exploited it. He needs to adjust and got no help. He just swung harder, which didn't help him. He could be very good. Both Brown and Vasquez can really play defense, too. We were stronger this year than any year in my recent memory in the combination speed, defense and depth in the field and at the plate.Even with the injuries to the pitching staff, we had good arms. The overall depth of this team and Avent's possible choices to play was very good. That is what I was saying. The players need to be taught to win against good teams. I really don't blame any of the players. Rodon was the difference between the two teams. Avent rode him. Avent made poor decisions with pitching in Omaha and Turner's fly ball in the 8th against UCLA, a home run in almost every other park, was caught at Ameritrade and we were done.

I have said enough about recruiting, but I will say I know coaches in NC that don't like dealing with him. They sent boys to State, UNC, Clem, App St and others. I heard many players talk about he "communicated" or lack there of, as compared to other coaches. However, the player I coached didn't have that issue. Of course, he threw 94 with movement, too.

Do I think we could get a better coach? Yes, even with DY leaving. There are young coaches all over that know baseball. State is not a bad situation. All successful coaches think they can win at all levels. Facilities are behind others but not awful. We do need upgrades like covered seating and expanded seating down both lines.They could come promised to the new coach.Take, for example, Pollard at Duke. He came from Appalachain. He gets almost no kids from from NC. Has to recruit up north because of the money. His team is catching ours. They aren't as good as we are but they are close. Conine helps them. His Dad could pay the dollars but still he has to find other good ball players that can afford Duke. He is winning. You can win at State in baseball if you can coach.

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gopack1979 said:

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Spot on. Only think I'd add is what we didn't do with Debo. Dude can rake and we let him die on the vine.

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EthanBarry said:

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CLTWolf said:

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EthanBarry said:

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I wish we had this much traffic on the baseball boards when we were #2 in the country

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He could coach at that point in time and no one had anything to piss and moan about.

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Imagine how good we would've been if we had a good coach.

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CLTWolf said:

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EthanBarry said:

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CLTWolf said:

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EthanBarry said:

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I wish we had this much traffic on the baseball boards when we were #2 in the country

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He could coach at that point in time and no one had anything to piss and moan about.

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Imagine how good we would've been if we had a good coach.

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We have a good coach that people want to run off after a good season. I've love to see a great coach here but heaven forbid he has a down year...people will want to run him off b/c they googled how to play baseball.

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Ripper said:

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Coach Avent had a nice season. Certainly not fireable. However, we are located in a tough neighborhood, competing against many coaches who have won tangible victories. Conference titles, regional titles, super regional titles, and CW titles (and CW runnerups). Mike Martin (8 ACC, 15 CW apps), Jim Morris (5 ACC, 12 CW apps, 2 CW titles), Brian O'Connor (2 ACC, 4 CW's, 1 CW title), Mike Fox (2 ACC, 6 CW's), Danny Hall (5 ACC, 3 CW's), Monte Lee (1 ACC), Jack Leggett (2 ACC, 6 CW's), and McDonnell (4 CW's in 10 years).

Coach Avent, in 22 years, has had pretty good results. But no ACC title, not one regular season title, and not even one division title.

To me, it all comes down to pitching. If we have one more quality pitcher in any given season, he probably gets some hardware. Quality pitching can overcome bad luck, untimely errors, and coaching blunders.

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BigLefty24 said:

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Ripper said:

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Coach Avent had a nice season. Certainly not fireable. However, we are located in a tough neighborhood, competing against many coaches who have won tangible victories. Conference titles, regional titles, super regional titles, and CW titles (and CW runnerups). Mike Martin (8 ACC, 15 CW apps), Jim Morris (5 ACC, 12 CW apps, 2 CW titles), Brian O'Connor (2 ACC, 4 CW's, 1 CW title), Mike Fox (2 ACC, 6 CW's), Danny Hall (5 ACC, 3 CW's), Monte Lee (1 ACC), Jack Leggett (2 ACC, 6 CW's), and McDonnell (4 CW's in 10 years).

Coach Avent, in 22 years, has had pretty good results. But no ACC title, not one regular season title, and not even one division title.

To me, it all comes down to pitching. If we have one more quality pitcher in any given season, he probably gets some hardware. Quality pitching can overcome bad luck, untimely errors, and coaching blunders.

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We were 26-6 and ranked #2 in the nation when Piedmonte got pulled from the Notre Dame game with back stiffness. He had lost ONE game in two years to that point. We finished the year 16-16 from that point.

Losing a #1 type starter is crushing. Now everyone moves up a spot in the rotation. Your #2 is now facing the opposition #1 every weekend. One of your best relievers is now thrust into a starting role. Your starting rotation gets worse, your bullpen gets worse.. Your offense is under more pressure to produce every game. It changes everything. With Piedmonte and Brown, we had a 1-2 punch that could match up with anyone. After Johnny started having back issues, our starting rotation went took a dive, and the result was a disappointing finish to what was still a really good year.






Injuries are part of the game. We lost Feeney pre season. Then Piedmonte had his issues. Some schools still have another high quality guy in the wings. Our pitching staffs over the years cannot overcome that type of adversity. It is what it is.

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wilmwolf80 said:

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I find it extremely amusing that people are complaining about our free swinging style this season, when the biggest complaint about Avent for most of his career was that he was too reliant on small ball. Plate discipline was not a strong suit of this year's team, but without the ability to hit the ball out of the park, we win fifteen less games, maybe more.

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BigLefty24 said:

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And Staley. 37 kids on the roster, 11.7 scholarships to divide amongst them. You're simply not gonna replace a #1 type starter, etc with just another dude and keep rolling along without missing a beat. Just look at what a hurt Piedmonte did in the regional. He was flat dominant pitching hurt until he couldn't go anymore.

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gopack1979 said:

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Spot on. Only think I'd add is what we didn't do with Debo. Dude can rake and we let him die on the vine.

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EthanBarry said:

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CLTWolf said:

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EthanBarry said:

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I wish we had this much traffic on the baseball boards when we were #2 in the country

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He could coach at that point in time and no one had anything to piss and moan about.

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Imagine how good we would've been if we had a good coach.

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JCooke93 said:

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Ripper said:

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Is Chris Hart a viable replacement for whenever Avent leaves? Is he considered a top level assistant?

Also, I still don't understand how Avent can hold up stadium upgrades if the AD wants them. He says no, I want the current low grade venue, and the AD says ok, we'll leave the place as is. Sounds like missing info on the situation or a complete dysfunctional cluster f bomb between the parties.

I think it sucks if one or both parties are not acting in the best interest of NC State Baseball.

Edit: also agree with WW80 comments

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Yes

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EthanBarry said:

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Ripper said:

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BigLefty24 said:

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And Staley. 37 kids on the roster, 11.7 scholarships to divide amongst them. You're simply not gonna replace a #1 type starter, etc with just another dude and keep rolling along without missing a beat. Just look at what a hurt Piedmonte did in the regional. He was flat dominant pitching hurt until he couldn't go anymore.

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It happened in 2016 when Ryan Williamson got hurt. We should have beaten Coastal. One more quality arm would have done it.

Same thing last year against KY. We just don't have enough quality arms compared to some top rated schools.

Edit: our 2013 CWS team is the only team I can recall where we had a top flight pitching staff, top to bottom.

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I'll argue with anybody we go to Omaha and maybe win it all in 2016 if O'Donnell and Williamson hadn't gotten hurt

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Struttingwolf96 said:

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Once again unc is headed to Omaha & the State team is gonna sit home & watch it on tv, but wait Avent will get us there next year.

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Struttingwolf96 said:

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I'm glad State wasnt ranked high at the beginning of the year then, they probably wouldn't have made the tournament then. Got to learn how to win when you are expected too, not when you can sneak up on teams.

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