Andrew4343 said:

---

Do we know if we are home or away?

---

We are home team.

Tuesday, May 23
No. 10 Virginia Tech vs. No. 6 Boston College,
Eagles 11-7

No. 11 Georgia Tech vs. No. 7 North Carolina,
unc-ch 11-5

No. 9 NC State vs. No. 5 Duke,
Wolfpack 8-7

POOL A
#1 Wake Forest, 0-0
#8 Notre Dame 0-0
#12 Pitt 0-0

POOL B
#2 Virginia, 0-0
#7 North Carolina, 1-0
#11 Georgia Tech 0-1

POOL C
#3 Clemson, 0-0
#6 Boston College, 1-0
#10 Virginia Tech 0-1

POOL D
#4 Miami,0-0
#5 Duke 0-1
#9 NC State 1-0

Wednesday, May 24

No. 12 Pitt vs. No. 8 Notre Dame, 11 a.m. (ACC Network)
No. 2 Virginia vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech, 3 p.m. (ACC Network)
No. 3 Clemson vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech, 7 p.m. (ACC Network)

highlights

The final out ⚡️ pic.twitter.com/iqcD9ZXUu0

— #Pack9 ⚾️ (@NCStateBaseball) May 24, 2023

whita𝐊er with straight HEAT to end it in the 11th 🥵

📺 @accnetwork | @NCStateBaseball | 🏆 pic.twitter.com/GnqrxlfJBa

— ACC Baseball (@ACCBaseball) May 24, 2023

Stepping up BIG TIME 👊#Pack9 | @DominicFritton pic.twitter.com/clhkbyCPIM

— #Pack9 ⚾️ (@NCStateBaseball) May 24, 2023

2-for-2, 2 doubles, 2 RBI

What a start for @kalae_harrison 💪 pic.twitter.com/MjIHUBgTHl

— #Pack9 ⚾️ (@NCStateBaseball) May 24, 2023

Hit and run to perfection ➕1️⃣@kalae_harrison 🤝 @parkernolan8 pic.twitter.com/x5vEOBnYgB

— #Pack9 ⚾️ (@NCStateBaseball) May 24, 2023

T A T T O O E D 🤯🤯🤯

📺 @accnetwork | @NCStateBaseball | 🏆 pic.twitter.com/QWGqNkZtsX

— ACC Baseball (@ACCBaseball) May 23, 2023

Some more flicks as we head into the final 3rd of the game:

📸 @HallieWalks & Stefanie Harper pic.twitter.com/4fyRpGKd7h

— Technician Sports (@TechSports) May 24, 2023

Wolfer79 said:

---

Tuesday, May 23
No. 10 Virginia Tech vs. No. 6 Boston College,
Eagles 11-7

No. 11 Georgia Tech vs. No. 7 North Carolina,
unc-ch 11-5

No. 9 NC State vs. No. 5 Duke,
Wolfpack 8-7

POOL A
#1 Wake Forest, 0-0
#8 Notre Dame 0-0
#12 Pitt 0-0

POOL B
#2 Virginia, 0-0
#7 North Carolina, 1-0
#11 Georgia Tech 0-1

POOL C
#3 Clemson, 0-0
#6 Boston College, 1-0
#10 Virginia Tech 0-1

POOL D
#4 Miami,0-0
#5 Duke 0-1
#9 NC State 1-0

Wednesday, May 24

No. 12 Pitt vs. No. 8 Notre Dame, 11 a.m. (ACC Network)
No. 2 Virginia vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech, 3 p.m. (ACC Network)
No. 3 Clemson vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech, 7 p.m. (ACC Network)

---

So two of the three games are meaningless (for ACCT purposes) as Ga Tech and Va Tech have been eliminated.

wilmwolf80 said:

---

I've said it every year since they went to it, but this format is so dumb. It's not fair to teams to have to play meaningless games. For teams that will make the NCAA tournament, it's an unnecessary tax on their pitching staff. I wonder if we'll ever get to the point where a coach will just forfeit one of these games.

---

We've seen teams (Louisville most notably) punt on the ACC Tournament in the past even though they had the team to win it by using seldom-used pitchers to save the staff for their regional.

SportManagementEngineer said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

I've said it every year since they went to it, but this format is so dumb. It's not fair to teams to have to play meaningless games. For teams that will make the NCAA tournament, it's an unnecessary tax on their pitching staff. I wonder if we'll ever get to the point where a coach will just forfeit one of these games.

---

We've seen teams (Louisville most notably) punt on the ACC Tournament in the past even though they had the team to win it by using seldom-used pitchers to save the staff for their regional.

---

The 'ol Roy Williams "ACC tournament doesn't matter" routine. lol

No idea what to expect against the canes, but I feel we've done enough to get into regionals? We'll see. I actually feel we're in a good spot. Let's beat the canes and leave no doubt.

CLTWolf said:

---

SportManagementEngineer said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

I've said it every year since they went to it, but this format is so dumb. It's not fair to teams to have to play meaningless games. For teams that will make the NCAA tournament, it's an unnecessary tax on their pitching staff. I wonder if we'll ever get to the point where a coach will just forfeit one of these games.

---

We've seen teams (Louisville most notably) punt on the ACC Tournament in the past even though they had the team to win it by using seldom-used pitchers to save the staff for their regional.

---

The 'ol Roy Williams "ACC tournament doesn't matter" routine. lol

---

We have done the same thing in the past. I believe it was 2021 in Charlotte? We were the top seed in our pool, beat the first game so we were a lock for the weekend. Played UNC in game 2 and started Garrett Payne while UNC started Austin Love. We got absolutely smoked but moved on, total waste of $30 to attend.

PortCityPackFan said:

---

Wolfer79 said:

---

Tuesday, May 23
No. 10 Virginia Tech vs. No. 6 Boston College,
Eagles 11-7

No. 11 Georgia Tech vs. No. 7 North Carolina,
unc-ch 11-5

No. 9 NC State vs. No. 5 Duke,
Wolfpack 8-7

POOL A
#1 Wake Forest, 0-0
#8 Notre Dame 0-0
#12 Pitt 0-0

POOL B
#2 Virginia, 0-0
#7 North Carolina, 1-0
#11 Georgia Tech 0-1

POOL C
#3 Clemson, 0-0
#6 Boston College, 1-0
#10 Virginia Tech 0-1

POOL D
#4 Miami,0-0
#5 Duke 0-1
#9 NC State 1-0

Wednesday, May 24

No. 12 Pitt vs. No. 8 Notre Dame, 11 a.m. (ACC Network)
No. 2 Virginia vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech, 3 p.m. (ACC Network)
No. 3 Clemson vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech, 7 p.m. (ACC Network)

---

So two of the three games are meaningless (for ACCT purposes) as Ga Tech and Va Tech have been eliminated.

---

Can someone help me out on how the games are meaningless?
Trying to understand the pool format...thank you.

Alexanderyost said:

---

CLTWolf said:

---

SportManagementEngineer said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

I've said it every year since they went to it, but this format is so dumb. It's not fair to teams to have to play meaningless games. For teams that will make the NCAA tournament, it's an unnecessary tax on their pitching staff. I wonder if we'll ever get to the point where a coach will just forfeit one of these games.

---

We've seen teams (Louisville most notably) punt on the ACC Tournament in the past even though they had the team to win it by using seldom-used pitchers to save the staff for their regional.

---

The 'ol Roy Williams "ACC tournament doesn't matter" routine. lol

---

We have done the same thing in the past. I believe it was 2021 in Charlotte? We were the top seed in our pool, beat the first game so we were a lock for the weekend. Played UNC in game 2 and started Garrett Payne while UNC started Austin Love. We got absolutely smoked but moved on, total waste of $30 to attend.

---

Not even close to the same thing. We didn't punt the entire tournament, we just did the logical thing and saved arms for the semi's. We played for the tourney championship in 2021.

We started Tillery that game, Payne came in right after. He, Colby Ingle (now at Western, I believe) and Miralia were much better. Tillery got beat up pretty good. They put up a crooked number before I could even walk into the game that night. haha

CLTWolf said:

---

Alexanderyost said:

---

CLTWolf said:

---

SportManagementEngineer said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

I've said it every year since they went to it, but this format is so dumb. It's not fair to teams to have to play meaningless games. For teams that will make the NCAA tournament, it's an unnecessary tax on their pitching staff. I wonder if we'll ever get to the point where a coach will just forfeit one of these games.

---

We've seen teams (Louisville most notably) punt on the ACC Tournament in the past even though they had the team to win it by using seldom-used pitchers to save the staff for their regional.

---

The 'ol Roy Williams "ACC tournament doesn't matter" routine. lol

---

We have done the same thing in the past. I believe it was 2021 in Charlotte? We were the top seed in our pool, beat the first game so we were a lock for the weekend. Played UNC in game 2 and started Garrett Payne while UNC started Austin Love. We got absolutely smoked but moved on, total waste of $30 to attend.

---

Not even close to the same thing. We didn't punt the entire tournament, we just did the logical thing and saved arms for the semi's. We played for the tourney championship in 2021.

We started Tillery that game, Payne came in right after. He, Colby Ingle (now at Western, I believe) and Miralia were much better. Tillery got beat up pretty good. They put up a crooked number before I could even walk into the game that night. haha

---

Right, different scenarios for sure. But still is a problem with the format. Regardless if your the last seed or the top seed, the pool play allows teams to decide to try to win or not - which is bad for baseball

Crazy thing was we had a chance to win at the end

redsteel33 said:

---

PortCityPackFan said:

---

Wolfer79 said:

---

Tuesday, May 23
No. 10 Virginia Tech vs. No. 6 Boston College,
Eagles 11-7

No. 11 Georgia Tech vs. No. 7 North Carolina,
unc-ch 11-5

No. 9 NC State vs. No. 5 Duke,
Wolfpack 8-7

POOL A
#1 Wake Forest, 0-0
#8 Notre Dame 0-0
#12 Pitt 0-0

POOL B
#2 Virginia, 0-0
#7 North Carolina, 1-0
#11 Georgia Tech 0-1

POOL C
#3 Clemson, 0-0
#6 Boston College, 1-0
#10 Virginia Tech 0-1

POOL D
#4 Miami,0-0
#5 Duke 0-1
#9 NC State 1-0

Wednesday, May 24

No. 12 Pitt vs. No. 8 Notre Dame, 11 a.m. (ACC Network)
No. 2 Virginia vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech, 3 p.m. (ACC Network)
No. 3 Clemson vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech, 7 p.m. (ACC Network)

---

So two of the three games are meaningless (for ACCT purposes) as Ga Tech and Va Tech have been eliminated.

---

Can someone help me out on how the games are meaningless?
Trying to understand the pool format...thank you.

---

Any three way tie in a pool means the higher seed moves on. Essentially, the only game that matters for the highest seed is the game against the winner of the other two teams. The game against the loser is meaningless, since (assuming the highest seed won the other game) a loss would mean all three teams finish 1-1.

1 and 0

PortCityPackFan said:

---

redsteel33 said:

---

PortCityPackFan said:

---

Wolfer79 said:

---

Tuesday, May 23
No. 10 Virginia Tech vs. No. 6 Boston College,
Eagles 11-7

No. 11 Georgia Tech vs. No. 7 North Carolina,
unc-ch 11-5

No. 9 NC State vs. No. 5 Duke,
Wolfpack 8-7

POOL A
#1 Wake Forest, 0-0
#8 Notre Dame 0-0
#12 Pitt 0-0

POOL B
#2 Virginia, 0-0
#7 North Carolina, 1-0
#11 Georgia Tech 0-1

POOL C
#3 Clemson, 0-0
#6 Boston College, 1-0
#10 Virginia Tech 0-1

POOL D
#4 Miami,0-0
#5 Duke 0-1
#9 NC State 1-0

Wednesday, May 24

No. 12 Pitt vs. No. 8 Notre Dame, 11 a.m. (ACC Network)
No. 2 Virginia vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech, 3 p.m. (ACC Network)
No. 3 Clemson vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech, 7 p.m. (ACC Network)

---

So two of the three games are meaningless (for ACCT purposes) as Ga Tech and Va Tech have been eliminated.

---

Can someone help me out on how the games are meaningless?
Trying to understand the pool format...thank you.

---

Any three way tie in a pool means the higher seed moves on. Essentially, the only game that matters for the highest seed is the game against the winner of the other two teams. The game against the loser is meaningless, since (assuming the highest seed won the other game) a loss would mean all three teams finish 1-1.

---

Thank you.

PortCityPackFan said:

---

redsteel33 said:

---

PortCityPackFan said:

---

Wolfer79 said:

---

Tuesday, May 23
No. 10 Virginia Tech vs. No. 6 Boston College,
Eagles 11-7

No. 11 Georgia Tech vs. No. 7 North Carolina,
unc-ch 11-5

No. 9 NC State vs. No. 5 Duke,
Wolfpack 8-7

POOL A
#1 Wake Forest, 0-0
#8 Notre Dame 0-0
#12 Pitt 0-0

POOL B
#2 Virginia, 0-0
#7 North Carolina, 1-0
#11 Georgia Tech 0-1

POOL C
#3 Clemson, 0-0
#6 Boston College, 1-0
#10 Virginia Tech 0-1

POOL D
#4 Miami,0-0
#5 Duke 0-1
#9 NC State 1-0

Wednesday, May 24

No. 12 Pitt vs. No. 8 Notre Dame, 11 a.m. (ACC Network)
No. 2 Virginia vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech, 3 p.m. (ACC Network)
No. 3 Clemson vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech, 7 p.m. (ACC Network)

---

So two of the three games are meaningless (for ACCT purposes) as Ga Tech and Va Tech have been eliminated.

---

Can someone help me out on how the games are meaningless?
Trying to understand the pool format...thank you.

---

Any three way tie in a pool means the higher seed moves on. Essentially, the only game that matters for the highest seed is the game against the winner of the other two teams. The game against the loser is meaningless, since (assuming the highest seed won the other game) a loss would mean all three teams finish 1-1.

---

The way you fix that is to make sure your top seeded team in each pod plays the first game of pool play, ideally against the second seeded team in the pool. This makes sure that your highest seeded team can't sit back and see who wins between the two lower seeded teams, which allows them to throw their entire arsenal of arms against a team that has likely already used their ace in game one.

BigLefty24 said:

---

PortCityPackFan said:

---

redsteel33 said:

---

PortCityPackFan said:

---

Wolfer79 said:

---

Tuesday, May 23
No. 10 Virginia Tech vs. No. 6 Boston College,
Eagles 11-7

No. 11 Georgia Tech vs. No. 7 North Carolina,
unc-ch 11-5

No. 9 NC State vs. No. 5 Duke,
Wolfpack 8-7

POOL A
#1 Wake Forest, 0-0
#8 Notre Dame 0-0
#12 Pitt 0-0

POOL B
#2 Virginia, 0-0
#7 North Carolina, 1-0
#11 Georgia Tech 0-1

POOL C
#3 Clemson, 0-0
#6 Boston College, 1-0
#10 Virginia Tech 0-1

POOL D
#4 Miami,0-0
#5 Duke 0-1
#9 NC State 1-0

Wednesday, May 24

No. 12 Pitt vs. No. 8 Notre Dame, 11 a.m. (ACC Network)
No. 2 Virginia vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech, 3 p.m. (ACC Network)
No. 3 Clemson vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech, 7 p.m. (ACC Network)

---

So two of the three games are meaningless (for ACCT purposes) as Ga Tech and Va Tech have been eliminated.

---

Can someone help me out on how the games are meaningless?
Trying to understand the pool format...thank you.

---

Any three way tie in a pool means the higher seed moves on. Essentially, the only game that matters for the highest seed is the game against the winner of the other two teams. The game against the loser is meaningless, since (assuming the highest seed won the other game) a loss would mean all three teams finish 1-1.

---

The way you fix that is to make sure your top seeded team in each pod plays the first game of pool play, ideally against the second seeded team in the pool. This makes sure that your highest seeded team can't sit back and see who wins between the two lower seeded teams, which allows them to throw their entire arsenal of arms against a team that has likely already used their ace in game one.

---

You would still have a meaningless game later between the loser of the first game and the loser of the second game in the pod. This format gives the advantage to the team that earned it in the regular season.

With all of that said, a top 4 seed has never won the ACC Tournament since it switched to this format. That is wild.

Maybe that's because the lower seeded teams have more of a must win mentality. The top seeds know they only have to win one game to advance, and maybe that's not the best psychologically.

SportManagementEngineer said:

---

BigLefty24 said:

---

PortCityPackFan said:

---

redsteel33 said:

---

PortCityPackFan said:

---

Wolfer79 said:

---

Tuesday, May 23
No. 10 Virginia Tech vs. No. 6 Boston College,
Eagles 11-7

No. 11 Georgia Tech vs. No. 7 North Carolina,
unc-ch 11-5

No. 9 NC State vs. No. 5 Duke,
Wolfpack 8-7

POOL A
#1 Wake Forest, 0-0
#8 Notre Dame 0-0
#12 Pitt 0-0

POOL B
#2 Virginia, 0-0
#7 North Carolina, 1-0
#11 Georgia Tech 0-1

POOL C
#3 Clemson, 0-0
#6 Boston College, 1-0
#10 Virginia Tech 0-1

POOL D
#4 Miami,0-0
#5 Duke 0-1
#9 NC State 1-0

Wednesday, May 24

No. 12 Pitt vs. No. 8 Notre Dame, 11 a.m. (ACC Network)
No. 2 Virginia vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech, 3 p.m. (ACC Network)
No. 3 Clemson vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech, 7 p.m. (ACC Network)

---

So two of the three games are meaningless (for ACCT purposes) as Ga Tech and Va Tech have been eliminated.

---

Can someone help me out on how the games are meaningless?
Trying to understand the pool format...thank you.

---

Any three way tie in a pool means the higher seed moves on. Essentially, the only game that matters for the highest seed is the game against the winner of the other two teams. The game against the loser is meaningless, since (assuming the highest seed won the other game) a loss would mean all three teams finish 1-1.

---

The way you fix that is to make sure your top seeded team in each pod plays the first game of pool play, ideally against the second seeded team in the pool. This makes sure that your highest seeded team can't sit back and see who wins between the two lower seeded teams, which allows them to throw their entire arsenal of arms against a team that has likely already used their ace in game one.

---

You would still have a meaningless game later between the loser of the first game and the loser of the second game in the pod. This format gives the advantage to the team that earned it in the regular season.

With all of that said, a top 4 seed has never won the ACC Tournament since it switched to this format. That is wild.

---

The "advantage earned" is the fact that they get the chance to advance with the same record as the other two teams in pool play by virtue of being the higher seed.

You're gonna have a meaningless game at some point either way. Thats just the nature of the pod system. But you dont let your top team sit back and watch the two lower seeded teams play game one, knowing that they only have to beat the winner to advance. Thats a massive competitive advantage.

The lowest seeded team HAS to win both games in the pool to advance, so that team is already being penalized for being the lowest seed.

The way it should be...top two seeds in each pool play first game. Winner of that game plays the lowest seeded team in game two. This ensures that the winner of game one is forced to try and win game two, because losing that game puts them at risk of not advancing should the lowest seeded team also win game three.

I just realized how duke was able to throw 100 pitchers at us last night. They get 2 full days rest before they play again. There's a built in advantage too. Hmm

CLTWolf said:

---

Alexanderyost said:

---

CLTWolf said:

---

SportManagementEngineer said:

---

wilmwolf80 said:

---

I've said it every year since they went to it, but this format is so dumb. It's not fair to teams to have to play meaningless games. For teams that will make the NCAA tournament, it's an unnecessary tax on their pitching staff. I wonder if we'll ever get to the point where a coach will just forfeit one of these games.

---

We've seen teams (Louisville most notably) punt on the ACC Tournament in the past even though they had the team to win it by using seldom-used pitchers to save the staff for their regional.

---

The 'ol Roy Williams "ACC tournament doesn't matter" routine. lol

---

We have done the same thing in the past. I believe it was 2021 in Charlotte? We were the top seed in our pool, beat the first game so we were a lock for the weekend. Played UNC in game 2 and started Garrett Payne while UNC started Austin Love. We got absolutely smoked but moved on, total waste of $30 to attend.

---

Not even close to the same thing. We didn't punt the entire tournament, we just did the logical thing and saved arms for the semi's. We played for the tourney championship in 2021.

We started Tillery that game, Payne came in right after. He, Colby Ingle (now at Western, I believe) and Miralia were much better. Tillery got beat up pretty good. They put up a crooked number before I could even walk into the game that night. haha

---

But, it wasn't that way for the coach. Maybe the fans don't like to see games where you gain experience versus trying to all out win against your opponent. Garrett Payne threw big innings for us after that. If Ingle was still on the team, he would be an important part now. Those games are valuable for a coach to gain lesser experienced players some important playing time on a big stage. All games in pool play are important. You have to use your arms wisely. Even if it's at the bottom of your bullpen. Don't look at those games that way, they're all important.

Pack31 said:

---

I just realized how duke was able to throw 100 pitchers at us last night. They get 2 full days rest before they play again. There's a built in advantage too. Hmm

---

But so do we?

SportManagementEngineer said:

---

Pack31 said:

---

I just realized how duke was able to throw 100 pitchers at us last night. They get 2 full days rest before they play again. There's a built in advantage too. Hmm

---

But so do we?

---

We do get rest but don't have the pitching depth Duke has. Have to hope Highfill can give us at least 5 but hopefully more.

Duke doesn't play again until Friday. We play Thursday so they do get an extra day of rest.

FlockaWolf said:

---

Duke doesn't play again until Friday. We play Thursday so they do get an extra day of rest.

---

Good point but I love our set up if we can get past Miami. The bullpen would have Friday off before playing early on Saturday. Basically everyone but Thursday's starter (assuming they give us a solid outing) is available for the weekend.

PortCityPackFan said:

---

redsteel33 said:

---

PortCityPackFan said:

---

Wolfer79 said:

---

Tuesday, May 23
No. 10 Virginia Tech vs. No. 6 Boston College,
Eagles 11-7

No. 11 Georgia Tech vs. No. 7 North Carolina,
unc-ch 11-5

No. 9 NC State vs. No. 5 Duke,
Wolfpack 8-7

POOL A
#1 Wake Forest, 0-0
#8 Notre Dame 0-0
#12 Pitt 0-0

POOL B
#2 Virginia, 0-0
#7 North Carolina, 1-0
#11 Georgia Tech 0-1

POOL C
#3 Clemson, 0-0
#6 Boston College, 1-0
#10 Virginia Tech 0-1

POOL D
#4 Miami,0-0
#5 Duke 0-1
#9 NC State 1-0

Wednesday, May 24

No. 12 Pitt vs. No. 8 Notre Dame, 11 a.m. (ACC Network)
No. 2 Virginia vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech, 3 p.m. (ACC Network)
No. 3 Clemson vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech, 7 p.m. (ACC Network)

---

So two of the three games are meaningless (for ACCT purposes) as Ga Tech and Va Tech have been eliminated.

---

Can someone help me out on how the games are meaningless?
Trying to understand the pool format...thank you.

---

Any three way tie in a pool means the higher seed moves on. Essentially, the only game that matters for the highest seed is the game against the winner of the other two teams. The game against the loser is meaningless, since (assuming the highest seed won the other game) a loss would mean all three teams finish 1-1.

---

To belabor the point a little bit more:

There are only two ways that a three-team pool can finish a round-robin:
1. One team at 2-0, one team at 1-1, and one team at 0-2.
2. All three teams finish 1-1.
In the case of scenario (1), the winner of the pool is the team that finished 2-0. In the case of scenario (2), the winner of the pool is the highest seeded team. Those are the only two possible outcomes. Therefore, if you're not the highest rated team, then you have to win both games. VT and GT are not the highest seeded teams, and they both have a loss, so they are mathematically eliminated from winning the pool. The best they can hope for is a three-way 1-1 tie, and they'd lose that tiebreaker.

This often results in a meaningless game for at least one team (and sometimes a meaningless game for two teams). You can trick teams into playing hard by jiggering with the schedule, or maybe you could institute a different tiebreaker. Would aggregate score / winning margin work? It would work in a game with a timer (soccer or football), but would be unfair to the home team in a baseball game. Home team doesn't get to bat in the 9th inning half the time, so they wouldn't have the same number of chances to score as the visiting team (or in the case of a walk-off run, the home team only wins by 1 run even if they had more offense on deck and more outs to spare).

pack2010 said:

---

IMO best (realistic) case for Thursday is

Highfill goes 5. Baker and Lawson go 2 innings a piece.

---

And the offense scores 10 runs

toddl said:

---

PortCityPackFan said:

---

redsteel33 said:

---

PortCityPackFan said:

---

Wolfer79 said:

---

Tuesday, May 23
No. 10 Virginia Tech vs. No. 6 Boston College,
Eagles 11-7

No. 11 Georgia Tech vs. No. 7 North Carolina,
unc-ch 11-5

No. 9 NC State vs. No. 5 Duke,
Wolfpack 8-7

POOL A
#1 Wake Forest, 0-0
#8 Notre Dame 0-0
#12 Pitt 0-0

POOL B
#2 Virginia, 0-0
#7 North Carolina, 1-0
#11 Georgia Tech 0-1

POOL C
#3 Clemson, 0-0
#6 Boston College, 1-0
#10 Virginia Tech 0-1

POOL D
#4 Miami,0-0
#5 Duke 0-1
#9 NC State 1-0

Wednesday, May 24

No. 12 Pitt vs. No. 8 Notre Dame, 11 a.m. (ACC Network)
No. 2 Virginia vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech, 3 p.m. (ACC Network)
No. 3 Clemson vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech, 7 p.m. (ACC Network)

---

So two of the three games are meaningless (for ACCT purposes) as Ga Tech and Va Tech have been eliminated.

---

Can someone help me out on how the games are meaningless?
Trying to understand the pool format...thank you.

---

Any three way tie in a pool means the higher seed moves on. Essentially, the only game that matters for the highest seed is the game against the winner of the other two teams. The game against the loser is meaningless, since (assuming the highest seed won the other game) a loss would mean all three teams finish 1-1.

---

To belabor the point a little bit more:

There are only two ways that a three-team pool can finish a round-robin:
1. One team at 2-0, one team at 1-1, and one team at 0-2.
2. All three teams finish 1-1.
In the case of scenario (1), the winner of the pool is the team that finished 2-0. In the case of scenario (2), the winner of the pool is the highest seeded team. Those are the only two possible outcomes. Therefore, if you're not the highest rated team, then you have to win both games. VT and GT are not the highest seeded teams, and they both have a loss, so they are mathematically eliminated from winning the pool. The best they can hope for is a three-way 1-1 tie, and they'd lose that tiebreaker.

This often results in a meaningless game for at least one team (and sometimes a meaningless game for two teams). You can trick teams into playing hard by jiggering with the schedule, or maybe you could institute a different tiebreaker. Would aggregate score / winning margin work? It would work in a game with a timer (soccer or football), but would be unfair to the home team in a baseball game. Home team doesn't get to bat in the 9th inning half the time, so they wouldn't have the same number of chances to score as the visiting team (or in the case of a walk-off run, the home team only wins by 1 run even if they had more offense on deck and more outs to spare).

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If you go by the scheduled I noted above, the ONLY scenario where there would not be a meaningless game in pool play would be if the top seeded team won both of their first two games. That would make the last game between the second and third seeded team meaningless, but even then, you'd likely have two teams on the outer fringes of NCAA tourney invites motivated to play for seeding/invite purposes.

No matter how you set it up...the pod system is stupid. Anytime there can be a meaningless game in a tournament format...it goes against the word tournament.

Case in point. The GT/UVA game today is meaningless for GT.

The Duke/Miami game Friday is meaningless. (Except for RPI and the NCAAT)

So Pitt beat ND so that should be helpful to us.

Someone will have to explain this to me though. ND vs Wake Forest now has no meaning at all, and Wake will likely throw their bullpen. If ND beats a Wake team that clearly isn't trying, how does the committee view that? I assume it would reflect in their RPI but it should be highly devalued.

Pods are dumb