Wlfpk81 said:

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griff17matt said:

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ATC didn't tell whoever the dumbass was that was flying the Blackhawk to fly into a plane. How the **** can you not see a plane from a helicopter?

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its actually quite possible if their training run involved night vision. the lights around reagan are numerous and bright! with NV on, you get a ton of starburst and things tend to blend a little while youre using the ground for reference. if they were preparing for landing then i would bet the operators were looking at systems and readings.

like most things, i think this will end up being bad communication but i do want to know what the status of the anti-collision systems that were on the two aircraft. this was a last minute runway switch, plus a pre-planned route for the helicopter and i havent heard any audio that plays the response from the blackhawk to the atc acknowledging the atc instructions. on the surface, this seems like a horrible and preventable accident.

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It was reported the helo was not equipped with TCAS (don't know if that's true) but if so, it's likely the CRJ never knew they were there.

wolf5 said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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President Trump just dunked on Pete Buttigieg and the "bull$#*+" woke policies that infected the FAA the last four years.

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Probably not a good idea to make this political. Not sure when the air traffic controllers were hired but it's a serious job and politics don't play a role.

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Yah, but that won't stop CNN, they're already getting roasted for that vile response from earlier this morning.

Gulfstream4 said:

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Wlfpk81 said:

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griff17matt said:

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ATC didn't tell whoever the dumbass was that was flying the Blackhawk to fly into a plane. How the **** can you not see a plane from a helicopter?

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its actually quite possible if their training run involved night vision. the lights around reagan are numerous and bright! with NV on, you get a ton of starburst and things tend to blend a little while youre using the ground for reference. if they were preparing for landing then i would bet the operators were looking at systems and readings.

like most things, i think this will end up being bad communication but i do want to know what the status of the anti-collision systems that were on the two aircraft. this was a last minute runway switch, plus a pre-planned route for the helicopter and i havent heard any audio that plays the response from the blackhawk to the atc acknowledging the atc instructions. on the surface, this seems like a horrible and preventable accident.

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It was reported the helo was not equipped with TCAS (don't know if that's true) but if so, it's likely the CRJ never knew they were there.

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im going to mess this up somewhere so take it as general recollection but the helicopter might not have had TCAS but it should have had ADSB which definitely is not the same thing but works similarly. also tcas has or had a minimum operational elevation to be effective iirc, maybe around 500'?

Found this as I was attempting to catch up with u guys and your aviation acronyms.

#Flight5342 😶‍🌫️ #Blackhawk case.
-----------------------------------------
Was it a suicide mission?
It look like the Blackhawk flew straight into the jet?

A military Blackhawk whose ADSB was turned off (reportedly) collided with American Airlines plane inbound to Reagan… pic.twitter.com/oxtQyIagJR

— Kris H (@Kris_H86) January 30, 2025

Wlfpk81 said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Wlfpk81 said:

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griff17matt said:

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ATC didn't tell whoever the dumbass was that was flying the Blackhawk to fly into a plane. How the **** can you not see a plane from a helicopter?

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its actually quite possible if their training run involved night vision. the lights around reagan are numerous and bright! with NV on, you get a ton of starburst and things tend to blend a little while youre using the ground for reference. if they were preparing for landing then i would bet the operators were looking at systems and readings.

like most things, i think this will end up being bad communication but i do want to know what the status of the anti-collision systems that were on the two aircraft. this was a last minute runway switch, plus a pre-planned route for the helicopter and i havent heard any audio that plays the response from the blackhawk to the atc acknowledging the atc instructions. on the surface, this seems like a horrible and preventable accident.

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It was reported the helo was not equipped with TCAS (don't know if that's true) but if so, it's likely the CRJ never knew they were there.

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im going to mess this up somewhere so take it as general recollection but the helicopter might not have had TCAS but it should have had ADSB which definitely is not the same thing but works similarly. also tcas has or had a minimum operational elevation to be effective iirc, maybe around 500'?

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All good points sir

FlossyDFlynt said:

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wolf howl said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Reported the Helo did not have Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) that would have advised the pilot of traffic.

I don't know anything about the Blackhawk but that seems odd to me.

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That does seem odd a helo flying in/out of one of the busiest airports in the country wouldn't have that.

We're flying out to Vegas tomorrow and the wife is anxious so that's no bueno, even though it's just a tragic accident and not mechanical.

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Something I read this morning that might help - this is the first commercial aviation disaster with fatalities in the US since 2009. Roughly 150 million commercial flights have happened between now and then. Those are lottery odds of something happening on your flight.

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I understand that but try telling that to an anxious wife. lol I did say if it was mechanical it would have me more concerned then an accident. I did upgrade us to 1st class so drinks will def be happening.

wolf howl said:

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FlossyDFlynt said:

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wolf howl said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Reported the Helo did not have Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) that would have advised the pilot of traffic.

I don't know anything about the Blackhawk but that seems odd to me.

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That does seem odd a helo flying in/out of one of the busiest airports in the country wouldn't have that.

We're flying out to Vegas tomorrow and the wife is anxious so that's no bueno, even though it's just a tragic accident and not mechanical.

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Something I read this morning that might help - this is the first commercial aviation disaster with fatalities in the US since 2009. Roughly 150 million commercial flights have happened between now and then. Those are lottery odds of something happening on your flight.

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I understand that but try telling that to an anxious wife. lol I did say if it was mechanical it would have me more concerned then an accident. I did upgrade us to 1st class so drinks will def be happening.

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itll totally relax her if you tell her shes more likely to have an accident on the way to the airport and sitting in first class reduces your chances of surviving a plane crash. have fun in vegas!

wolf howl said:

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FlossyDFlynt said:

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wolf howl said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Reported the Helo did not have Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) that would have advised the pilot of traffic.

I don't know anything about the Blackhawk but that seems odd to me.

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That does seem odd a helo flying in/out of one of the busiest airports in the country wouldn't have that.

We're flying out to Vegas tomorrow and the wife is anxious so that's no bueno, even though it's just a tragic accident and not mechanical.

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Something I read this morning that might help - this is the first commercial aviation disaster with fatalities in the US since 2009. Roughly 150 million commercial flights have happened between now and then. Those are lottery odds of something happening on your flight.

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I understand that but try telling that to an anxious wife. lol I did say if it was mechanical it would have me more concerned then an accident. I did upgrade us to 1st class so drinks will def be happening.

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Good man

wolf howl said:

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FlossyDFlynt said:

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wolf howl said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Reported the Helo did not have Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) that would have advised the pilot of traffic.

I don't know anything about the Blackhawk but that seems odd to me.

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That does seem odd a helo flying in/out of one of the busiest airports in the country wouldn't have that.

We're flying out to Vegas tomorrow and the wife is anxious so that's no bueno, even though it's just a tragic accident and not mechanical.

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Something I read this morning that might help - this is the first commercial aviation disaster with fatalities in the US since 2009. Roughly 150 million commercial flights have happened between now and then. Those are lottery odds of something happening on your flight.

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I understand that but try telling that to an anxious wife. lol I did say if it was mechanical it would have me more concerned then an accident. I did upgrade us to 1st class so drinks will def be happening.

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Good man. One should always have drinks on the way to Vegas

First thing I saw this morning and I have had a pit in my stomach all day long. My grandson wants to become a pilot and last week when I picked he and his parents up at RDU, we were discussing crashes and I was talking about the one that happened in 1982 in Washington(National Airport then) when they were having snow and ice and the plane was not able to get enough lift to get over the 14th street bridge on takeoff. This morning brought back those memories.

So sad and it probably could have been prevented. The Blackhawk crew was apparently very experienced, but they were wearing their night vision goggles and I am sure that may have been part of the problem. Hopefully it wasn't a mechanical issue where he could not divert.

Just a very sad situation. Thoughts and prayers to all involved and their families and friends.

If this accident investigation plays out similarly to previous crash investigations, one ore more factors that contributed to these deaths will have the world thinking "Why on earth wasn't "X" addressed a long time ago? Then this would never have happened!"

Unfortunately, the answer to that question is that aviation is reactionary. Changes don't get made until people die. Colgan Air went down in 2009. Various groups had been warning about the potential effects of pilot fatigue and how those effects could lead to a disaster for YEARS. Only after all those folks died did we get new pilot rest rules that were based on sleep science and other factors (in 2014, 5 years after the Colgan crash). That's just one example. There are many more.

Aviation regulations aren't sexy and they don't make for great sound bites if you're trying to implement them to PREVENT a future catastrophe. Everyone will rush to the nearest microphone AFTER people have died. Sad but true.

hokiewolf said:

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packgrad said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Reported the Helo did not have Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) that would have advised the pilot of traffic.

I don't know anything about the Blackhawk but that seems odd to me.

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. Is the plane's system dependent on the helicopter's to communicate? Or can they independently detect and advise/alter path? Forgive my ignorance.

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Erin way we we an expert on that system on the news this morning, they said both aircraft need TCAS.

Have to say this is why Reagan is my least favorite airport I've ever flown into. It's a ride

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I like how easy it is to get around the ground area in Reagan (or was, it's been years for me), but yeah, my hairiest flight experience was there…..had just touched down on the tarmac when the pilot went to full military power and lifted us off again as there was another plane crossing the runway we'd been assigned to. Once in the air, the pilot explained the situation and joked that the plane in question belonged to one of Delta's competitors.

🚨 #BREAKING: Just 24 HOURS before an American Airlines flight collided with a Blackhawk at Reagan National Airport, ANOTHER American flight had to abort landing due to a helicopter crossing its flight path at the same airport

AA4514 can be seen on radar having to go around a… pic.twitter.com/kecSr9V8WP

— Nick Sortor (@nicksortor) January 31, 2025

My cousin is a regional airline pilot, flew that exact approach into DC last week. He's pretty shaken up about it.

Civilized said:

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Really insightful posts for all us laymen, fly. Thanks much for sharing.

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My one and only area of expertise. Happy to share.

SmaptyWolf said:

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My cousin is a regional airline pilot, flew that exact approach into DC last week. He's pretty shaken up about it.

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It's very common. The regional and smaller aircraft are the only ones that can do that circling approach because of the short length of 33. It helps ATC out immensely with getting aircraft traffic in and out of that airport. There's nothing inherently dangerous about the approach itself. ,Theyve been doing it for years. It''s safe. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were him.

flylike44 said:

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Ill also add that since I got into this business, the complaints about ATC funding, inadequate staffing, and lagging technology have never stopped.

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Thankfully Trump has already frozen ATC hiring, disbanded the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee, offered buyouts/retirements to all existing, experienced ATCs (as well as the TSA, etc), and of course tried to freeze research grants for things like, say, better ATC technology. That should help.

flylike44 said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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My cousin is a regional airline pilot, flew that exact approach into DC last week. He's pretty shaken up about it.

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It's very common. The regional and smaller aircraft are the only ones that can do that circling approach because of the short length of 33. It helps ATC out immensely with getting aircraft traffic in and out of that airport. There's nothing inherently dangerous about the approach itself. ,Theyve been doing it for years. It''s safe. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were him.

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Thanks, I'll pass that on. He's still wet behind the ears, so I imagine this was especially jarring. I'm sure he'll be fine.

Here is a link to a Blaze Media documentary. It's called "Countdown to the Next Aviation Disaster." It came out a week or two ago, but it discusses the hiring practices of the FAA. Unfortunately, it was very prescient in what was going to happen.

Edit: It actually came out in November.

SmaptyWolf said:

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flylike44 said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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My cousin is a regional airline pilot, flew that exact approach into DC last week. He's pretty shaken up about it.

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It's very common. The regional and smaller aircraft are the only ones that can do that circling approach because of the short length of 33. It helps ATC out immensely with getting aircraft traffic in and out of that airport. There's nothing inherently dangerous about the approach itself. ,Theyve been doing it for years. It''s safe. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were him.

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Thanks, I'll pass that on. He's still wet behind the ears, so I imagine this was especially jarring. I'm sure he'll be fine.

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It's all good. We were all new once. One more thing. Circle to land 33 is optional. The pilot can always say "Unable" and continue the approach to 01.

A long time ago I learned that one of the most important words in aviation is "Unable". If you've briefed, prepared for, and set up for an approach and landing on runway 01 and you don't feel you have enough time to switch the plan, or don't feel comfortable changing the plan at the last minute, don't do it.

https://instagr.am/p/DFe8do8glw8

DrummerboyWolf said:

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First thing I saw this morning and I have had a pit in my stomach all day long. My grandson wants to become a pilot and last week when I picked he and his parents up at RDU, we were discussing crashes and I was talking about the one that happened in 1982 in Washington(National Airport then) when they were having snow and ice and the plane was not able to get enough lift to get over the 14th street bridge on takeoff. This morning brought back those memories.

So sad and it probably could have been prevented. The Blackhawk crew was apparently very experienced, but they were wearing their night vision goggles and I am sure that may have been part of the problem. Hopefully it wasn't a mechanical issue where he could not divert.

Just a very sad situation. Thoughts and prayers to all involved and their families and friends.

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I remembered when I was at State that crash going into the Potomac as well... thanks for freshening the details.

Dumb question that has nothing to do with anything, but someone from here will probably know... this is a question that just comes out of general curiosity from looking at the aerials. Is Reagan constructed on a man made island built into the Potomac - or is that a natural land mass?

Like I said, has nothing to do with what happened, but I was just curious...

https://instagr.am/p/DFfgFONOdvu

packgrad said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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flylike44 said:

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Ill also add that since I got into this business, the complaints about ATC funding, inadequate staffing, and lagging technology have never stopped.

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Thankfully Trump has already frozen ATC hiring, disbanded the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee, offered buyouts/retirements to all existing, experienced ATCs (as well as the TSA, etc), and of course tried to freeze research grants for things like, say, better ATC technology. That should help.

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Blatant lies from smapty. Not surprised the fake arbiters of truth have not corrected this due to their TDS. Federal air traffic controllers are exempt from the hiring freeze. More fake news/misinformation/gaslighting from the left.

This is why democrats are flailing in polls.

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yeah none of this matters relative to this accident.

hokiewolf said:

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packgrad said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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flylike44 said:

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Ill also add that since I got into this business, the complaints about ATC funding, inadequate staffing, and lagging technology have never stopped.

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Thankfully Trump has already frozen ATC hiring, disbanded the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee, offered buyouts/retirements to all existing, experienced ATCs (as well as the TSA, etc), and of course tried to freeze research grants for things like, say, better ATC technology. That should help.

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Blatant lies from smapty. Not surprised the fake arbiters of truth have not corrected this due to their TDS. Federal air traffic controllers are exempt from the hiring freeze. More fake news/misinformation/gaslighting from the left.

This is why democrats are flailing in polls.

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yeah none of this matters relative to this accident.

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Yeah. I expected that to be when you'd police response, per usual. Feign outrage and judge, fake ass.

This one is going to be interesting, for sure... The Helicopter sure looks like it flew directly into the airplane. I don't know about you all; however, I have a higher level of confidence we will hear the truth, with this admin...

caryking said:

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This one is going to be interesting, for sure... The Helicopter sure looks like it flew directly into the airplane. I don't know about you all; however, I have a higher level of confidence we will hear the truth, with this admin...

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Check out the 8-10 min of the MonkeyWerx podcast I shared on the other thread.

hokiewolf said:

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packgrad said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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flylike44 said:

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Ill also add that since I got into this business, the complaints about ATC funding, inadequate staffing, and lagging technology have never stopped.

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Thankfully Trump has already frozen ATC hiring, disbanded the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee, offered buyouts/retirements to all existing, experienced ATCs (as well as the TSA, etc), and of course tried to freeze research grants for things like, say, better ATC technology. That should help.

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Blatant lies from smapty. Not surprised the fake arbiters of truth have not corrected this due to their TDS. Federal air traffic controllers are exempt from the hiring freeze. More fake news/misinformation/gaslighting from the left.

This is why democrats are flailing in polls.

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yeah none of this matters relative to this accident.

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Of course it doesn't matter relative to this incident.

Anyway, Trump's orders have tended to be poorly written and confusing, so there is a lot of conflicting info going around, but it does look like ATCs were exempt from the hiring freeze. It's not clear if they were offered buyouts, though, along with huge swaths of the government. The TSA apparently was. Trump did disband the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee, and of course tried to freeze all research grants.

The point is that this plane crash was a perfectly timed metaphor for what these guys are about to do to this country. "Dismantle the gubmint" makes a great bumper sticker for folks who aren't good at thinking about things for more than 30 seconds, but it's going to have wide-ranging unintended negative consequences.

packgrad said:

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hokiewolf said:

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packgrad said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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flylike44 said:

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Ill also add that since I got into this business, the complaints about ATC funding, inadequate staffing, and lagging technology have never stopped.

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Thankfully Trump has already frozen ATC hiring, disbanded the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee, offered buyouts/retirements to all existing, experienced ATCs (as well as the TSA, etc), and of course tried to freeze research grants for things like, say, better ATC technology. That should help.

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Blatant lies from smapty. Not surprised the fake arbiters of truth have not corrected this due to their TDS. Federal air traffic controllers are exempt from the hiring freeze. More fake news/misinformation/gaslighting from the left.

This is why democrats are flailing in polls.

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yeah none of this matters relative to this accident.

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Yeah. I expected that to be when you'd police response, per usual. Feign outrage and judge, fake ass.

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um, I'm agreeing with you.