Civilized said:

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packofwolves said:

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IseWolf22 said:

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Glasswolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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GuerrillaPack said:

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If this place enacts viewpoint censorship as just proposed by Glasswolf, I will likely be cancelling my premium membership.

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How many trans or jewish pack fans do you imagine have read your uncensored crap on here and then said "ohh, I definitely want to join IPS!"? It's a big school, those people exist.

Losing you would be a fair trade for a more welcoming sports community. The free market at work.

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You Leftists attack white people all day long, complaining bout "white supremacy", "white privilege", blah blah blah

How many white people are NC State alumni and fans.

Are we going to censor and ban you whenever you regurgitate the various anti-white propaganda that the Democrats and Left produce?

I'm not proposing that ANYONE be censored.

But this is how you communist Leftists operate. Your main modus operandi is censorship of conservatives.

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And there it is. Already with the censorship bull.

You think there haven't been more than one that has canceled their premium subscriptions because of posters like you?

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I know this for a fact. Several people I've recommended to IPS decided to leave as soon as they found the water cooler .

GP and Were flood the zone with so much trash that it makes this place toxic

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I have to question that. Maybe it's because this site doesn't censor posts from conservatives. Or maybe there are too many conservatives that post on this board.

It's so simple to handle Were's posts using the Ignore feature.

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This isn't a lib vs. conservative thing.

It's a basic decency and not flooding the zone with spam thing.

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The flooding the zone is so easy to address. Instead of complaining about it, just Ignore the poster doing it. I don't believe this has anything to do with leaving a site when the fix is so simple.

Now the decency part, that's a different story. If everyone makes an effort, we can clean that up a quite a bit.

hokiewolf said:

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*** is happening here

🚨 @POTUS is taking executive action to protect fans from exploitative ticket scalping and bring commonsense reforms to live entertainment.

The Order directs the Federal Trade Commission to:

— Work with the Attorney General to ensure that competition laws are appropriately… pic.twitter.com/KPCkJVCOdM

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) March 31, 2025

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Yeah, this is a non-issue. Let the free market regulate this….scalpers have been around forever, why is it an issue now? The market sets the price.

fair enough. i don't see your means as effective either. we are way past legitimacy for the other side . Our side is winning. going away. The 2nd American Revolution....the real freedom our generations have never known. That's what lies in front of us, just got to finish!!!!

You mean well, Our styles are different. hope you have a good night.

I'm happy to stop the '3 blind mice' if that will help

A very small part in making a difference...putting the shoulder to the wheel! No longer a HORSE PILL....

overcoming censorship!


Full text from above X URL:

"We now have 12 states with bills to make ivermectin OTC:
- Texas
- West Virginia
- Alabama
- Maine
- Pennsylvania
- South Carolina
- Minnesota
- Oklahoma
- Kentucky
- Missouri
- Louisiana
- Idaho
... and yesterday Arkansas became the second state in the country (Tennessee is the first) to make ivermectin available without a prescription."

Oopsy! We put man in the world's worst prison and can't get him back, can't make an omlet without breaking a few eggs! Accidents happen!! At least the criminals deported are there for him to make new friends while he's beaten to death by them!!! No criminal record in ten years, was called an active MS 13 gang member by a confidential informant. If anything, should have been detained in the US but hey, why not kill a guy when you have a shot! Stalin loved this sort of thing!

NEW: In a court filing this evening, the Trump administration said that it had mistakenly deported a Maryland father to a notorious Salvadoran prison due to an "administrative error." pic.twitter.com/e5cOcR1W0W

— Yoni Appelbaum (@YAppelbaum) April 1, 2025

hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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Civilized said:

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Gulfstream4 said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Quite the gang member. BTW, my coworkers wife was lost for two weeks in the system with zero communication and has been deported back to Colombia for zero reason other than she "overstayed" her visa during COVID when she couldn't return to her country. No due process, not even can be bothered to just go before an immigration judge. I guess this is what you guys wanted. It's not right, but elections have consequences and the last two administration have put us in this spot.

This is evil and insane. That poor man is guilty of nothing. https://t.co/nNXhf66uP6

— Rod Dreher (@roddreher) March 31, 2025

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Hokie, this is far from a perfect solution; however, it needs to be done. Hopefully, these people will get their lives back quickly, if wrongly handled...

I think I've heard multiple admin folks say this. Trust me, bad things happen everyday to people who are innocent... The system isn't perfect, not am I...

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thats unacceptable and not what this country stands for Cary. We do not treat innocent people like criminals in this country. Immigration is the first step. What's next? Prison for people who don't agree? That's the next step

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I agree with Cary. It's not a perfect system and I'm truly disappointed to hear about your friend. Hopefully things get sorted out soon.

That said hokie, I'm willing to bet many more bad guys have been deported than good people like your friends girlfriend?

That doesn't make it any better for them but it does for the country.

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"More bad people than good deported" doesn't justify unconstitutional elimination of due process.

We don't only abide by the constitution when it's convenient.

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Like I said, it's not perfect but many more bad guys have been removed than people like hokies friend.

And honestly let's stop with the pretending to care about the Constitution. You want these people here so their anchor babies grow up dependent on the government. If these were white, Christian, educated people from Europe democrats would have shut the border down in a NY minute.

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How do you know more bad guys have been deported than good? There's zero evidence of who's been deported and what their criminal record is. You're taking the word of the administration, which honestly I can't at the moment when they keep saying Doge has saved a trillion dollars when it's barely two billion

That's why you have due process. Some of these innocent people are now in a foreign prison with the worst of the worst criminals in Central America. And the response is oh well?

We've lost our way because of fear mongering

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Hokie, would you agree that is your opinion?

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please show me where I can find the criminal history of those who have been sent to the prison in El Salvador. You can't find it because innocent people are being sent there without due process

So my opinion is I believe in due process and the Constitution. You are innocent until proven guilty. It's the reason why we have an immigration court

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Yet another one who was deported without due process and it turns out he has legal status to stay, at least without court review.

The administration has said his deportation was an administrative error, but that the court now can't force them to bring the man back or have him released from detention. So even when they mess up, they do not intend to try and fix their mistake.

The dude had a wife and child in the US and came here fleeing the same gangs he's now locked up with.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ice-admits-administrative-error-after-maryland-man-el/story?id=120359991

Spam?

BREAKING: Elon Musk’s DOGE team is handing over evidence to DHS connecting Social Security fraud to election fraud.

— The General (@GeneralMCNews) March 31, 2025

hokiewolf said:

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Oopsy! We put man in the world's worst prison and can't get him back, can't make an omlet without breaking a few eggs! Accidents happen!! At least the criminals deported are there for him to make new friends while he's beaten to death by them!!! No criminal record in ten years, was called an active MS 13 gang member by a confidential informant. If anything, should have been detained in the US but hey, why not kill a guy when you have a shot! Stalin loved this sort of thing!

NEW: In a court filing this evening, the Trump administration said that it had mistakenly deported a Maryland father to a notorious Salvadoran prison due to an "administrative error." pic.twitter.com/e5cOcR1W0W

— Yoni Appelbaum (@YAppelbaum) April 1, 2025

---

Not so fast. This story lacks enough clarifying details….although here's one of the few that stand out…

"He later filed an I-589 application for asylum and although Abrego Garcia was found removable, an immigration judge "granted him withholding of removal to El Salvador.""

First, it wasn't ICE that made the determination that he was removable, that's part of the court process. Second, the story fails to provide the rationale for the judge's decision, which matters. If the reason was justifiable, this story may hold its own with respect to its veracity. If the ruling is open to question, different matter. Either way, until that is determined, any conclusion here is a rush to judgment until all the facts are on the table. And the person in question IS a Salvadorean.

Werewolf said:

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Spam?

BREAKING: Elon Musk’s DOGE team is handing over evidence to DHS connecting Social Security fraud to election fraud.

— The General (@GeneralMCNews) March 31, 2025

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Certainly.

It does dredge up an old favorite and marry it to the conspiracy du jour though so I'm sure it's popular around here.

At what point do you just stop believing what Elon tells you?

He's supposed to be cutting a trillion out of the government before 26 fiscal year starts in October (Musk says he'll actually have cut a trillion by May) this, yet DOGE has slashed much closer to a billion despite all the bluster.

Civilized said:

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Werewolf said:

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Spam?

BREAKING: Elon Musk’s DOGE team is handing over evidence to DHS connecting Social Security fraud to election fraud.

— The General (@GeneralMCNews) March 31, 2025

---

Certainly.

It does dredge up an old favorite and marry it to the conspiracy du jour though so I'm sure it's popular around here.

At what point do you just stop believing what Elon tells you?

He's supposed to be cutting a trillion out of the government before 26 fiscal year starts in October (Musk says he'll actually have cut a trillion by May) this, yet DOGE has slashed much closer to a billion despite all the bluster.

---

It's estimated that Musk's gutting of the IRS will reduce revenue by $500 BILLION.

They clearly have "goals", but reducing the deficit clearly isn't one of them.

Civilized said:

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Werewolf said:

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Spam?

BREAKING: Elon Musk’s DOGE team is handing over evidence to DHS connecting Social Security fraud to election fraud.

— The General (@GeneralMCNews) March 31, 2025

---

Certainly.

It does dredge up an old favorite and marry it to the conspiracy du jour though so I'm sure it's popular around here.

At what point do you just stop believing what Elon tells you?

He's supposed to be cutting a trillion out of the government before 26 fiscal year starts in October (Musk says he'll actually have cut a trillion by May) this, yet DOGE has slashed much closer to a billion despite all the bluster.

---

So, if not Elon, who should we believe?

Oldsouljer said:

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hokiewolf said:

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Oopsy! We put man in the world's worst prison and can't get him back, can't make an omlet without breaking a few eggs! Accidents happen!! At least the criminals deported are there for him to make new friends while he's beaten to death by them!!! No criminal record in ten years, was called an active MS 13 gang member by a confidential informant. If anything, should have been detained in the US but hey, why not kill a guy when you have a shot! Stalin loved this sort of thing!

NEW: In a court filing this evening, the Trump administration said that it had mistakenly deported a Maryland father to a notorious Salvadoran prison due to an "administrative error." pic.twitter.com/e5cOcR1W0W

— Yoni Appelbaum (@YAppelbaum) April 1, 2025

---

Not so fast. This story lacks enough clarifying details….although here's one of the few that stand out…

"He later filed an I-589 application for asylum and although Abrego Garcia was found removable, an immigration judge "granted him withholding of removal to El Salvador.""

First, it wasn't ICE that made the determination that he was removable, that's part of the court process. Second, the story fails to provide the rationale for the judge's decision, which matters. If the reason was justifiable, this story may hold its own with respect to its veracity. If the ruling is open to question, different matter. Either way, until that is determined, any conclusion here is a rush to judgment until all the facts are on the table. And the person in question IS a Salvadorean.

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The rationale is that he , like many men from El Salvador were forced into MS 13 or they would be killed.

Werewolf said:

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Civilized said:

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Werewolf said:

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Spam?

BREAKING: Elon Musk’s DOGE team is handing over evidence to DHS connecting Social Security fraud to election fraud.

— The General (@GeneralMCNews) March 31, 2025

---

Certainly.

It does dredge up an old favorite and marry it to the conspiracy du jour though so I'm sure it's popular around here.

At what point do you just stop believing what Elon tells you?

He's supposed to be cutting a trillion out of the government before 26 fiscal year starts in October (Musk says he'll actually have cut a trillion by May) this, yet DOGE has slashed much closer to a billion despite all the bluster.

---

So, if not Elon, who should we believe?

---

Maybe a diversified approach, including industry leaders; economists; and non-partisan media sources that are attempting to abide by journalistic standards like the Economist; Reason; Financial Times, etc.?

so Elon's motive for his deceit is what?

Werewolf said:

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fair enough. i don't see your means as effective either. we are way past legitimacy for the other side . Our side is winning. going away. The 2nd American Revolution....the real freedom our generations have never known. That's what lies in front of us, just got to finish!!!!

You mean well, Our styles are different. hope you have a good night.

---

Were, subtlety is actually a good thing at times. Here is what I believe:

• The country is at way (or whatever one wants to call it) between the Populist and Elitist
• I aligned with the Populist
• This war is about: culture, economic structure, and political
• Too many people are set in the last 30 years of economic structure and feel a change will be disastrous.
• The economic structure is not going to get changed during this Trump term
• The cultural change can be solved in this Trump term
• I believe some of the cultural challenges need to be rooted from government and allowed to exist in each persons personal life. Meaning live how you want to live.
• Political change needs to happen via the court system, as we've seen so far. The Supreme Court may get more of these changes that we might think. Example: Roe Vs Wade

Now, me pushing the above down the throat of people isn't the way. I know how that feels. The left has pushed significant change down the throats of people, like me. It's not fun! I believe the left has created this divide because now… as we push back, the **** is hitting the fan with them.

Yes, on the forum, you and I are probably not going to change a single mind. Remember, the others, on here, on not going to change our minds. So, if that's the case, why not just have some fun debating, without insults, or anything else. It's not necessary, is it?

Civilized said:

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Werewolf said:

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Spam?

BREAKING: Elon Musk’s DOGE team is handing over evidence to DHS connecting Social Security fraud to election fraud.

— The General (@GeneralMCNews) March 31, 2025

---

Certainly.

It does dredge up an old favorite and marry it to the conspiracy du jour though so I'm sure it's popular around here.

At what point do you just stop believing what Elon tells you?

He's supposed to be cutting a trillion out of the government before 26 fiscal year starts in October (Musk says he'll actually have cut a trillion by May) this, yet DOGE has slashed much closer to a billion despite all the bluster.

---

I'm going to stop believing when the dust settles and we end up with nothing. Until then, we have what's being said. Personally, I don't think the dust has settled…

Civilized said:

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Werewolf said:

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Civilized said:

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Werewolf said:

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Spam?

BREAKING: Elon Musk’s DOGE team is handing over evidence to DHS connecting Social Security fraud to election fraud.

— The General (@GeneralMCNews) March 31, 2025

---

Certainly.

It does dredge up an old favorite and marry it to the conspiracy du jour though so I'm sure it's popular around here.

At what point do you just stop believing what Elon tells you?

He's supposed to be cutting a trillion out of the government before 26 fiscal year starts in October (Musk says he'll actually have cut a trillion by May) this, yet DOGE has slashed much closer to a billion despite all the bluster.

---

So, if not Elon, who should we believe?

---

Maybe a diversified approach, including industry leaders; economists; and non-partisan media sources that are attempting to abide by journalistic standards like the Economist; Reason; Financial Times, etc.?

---

I have less confidence in those type of organizations than the people working with DOGE. I find it funny that the narrative is some wiz kids doing this work…

See this article for the people…

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5218847-meet-the-doge-team/

I get your point...we can go down that rabbit hole at a different time.

I'm hoping Civ will tell us why he thinks Elon is not telling truth and what Elon's motive is.

Werewolf said:

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I get your point...we can go down that rabbit hole at a different time.

I'm hoping Civ will tell us why he thinks Elon is not telling truth and what Elon's motive is.

---

I think most people that complain about Trump start from a position of: it's Trump! Now, do some people have philosophical differences? I would say yes. That said, anything related to Trump is a non-starter for some.

Were, people with different world views are will have different perspectives.

Werewolf said:

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so Elon's motive for his deceit is what?

---

He's a colossally maladjusted weirdo so who knows? Being liked? Having followers that he misconstrues as friends? Being power-hungry? Being angry for having a trans kid or being unable to sustain meaningful and loving relationships with any of the four mothers of his fourteen children? Wanting to amass more wealth? Wanting to receive reflected radiance from a cult leader?

At the end of the day I don't know and don't care what his motives are; it's clear based on his actions to blindly dismantle institutions and the fountain of lies that he's spewed and propagated on X and elsewhere that he's cognitively challenged, completely hypocritical, and morally bankrupt.

He has the wealth, power, and standing to be one of the world's greatest benefactors and instead he's gleefully morphed into a caricature of an autistic villain. His motivations are his own, but we're all left to pick up the pieces.

Is there's a direct financial benefit that he is exploiting or is it indirect viaanuevering into an advantageous position with Trump?

Is the young Doge team in on Elon's lie? Or is the team just a front, a fake?

I think it's just simple ignorance of the systems and structure of the various govt agencies. Such as visa holders can get SS numbers for tax purposes but that doesn't mean they can also vote. That's part of this "massive fraud" he's uncovering.

Werewolf said:

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Is there's a direct financial benefit that he is exploiting or is it indirect viaanuevering into an advantageous position with Trump?

Is the young Doge team in on Elon's lie? Or is the team just a front, a fake?

---

It's hard to comprehend how this is a serious question.

His businesses are regulated (and have been investigated many times and sometimes fined, which he raged about on Twitter constantly) by many of the agencies that he's now taking an axe to. They've pretended that he would "recuse himself", which of course never happened... instead they fired all of the ethics watchdogs that could enforce any recusals.

Oh, and he has a massive financial interest in creating the appearance of a justification for Trump's billionaire tax cut this fall. "OMG we found trillions in fraud to offset this tax cut!"

And yes, of course to complete his title of "Biggest Conflict of Interest in American History" I'm very sure his businesses will benefit bigly from the waterfall of new government contracts coming his way, new regulations and tariffs perfectly designed to ratfu** his competition, etc.

First of all, I'll thank Civ for stepping up to the plate with answers to the questions. #Nappy's last pgh was what I thought Civ's answer would be.

So back to the 2nd question:

Is the young Doge team in on Elon's lie? Or is the team just a front, a fake?

I'm assuming the consensus of the 3 of you is that the $37T resulted from the billionaire class tax breaks?

SmaptyWolf said:

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Werewolf said:

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Is there's a direct financial benefit that he is exploiting or is it indirect viaanuevering into an advantageous position with Trump?

Is the young Doge team in on Elon's lie? Or is the team just a front, a fake?

---

It's hard to comprehend how this is a serious question.

His business are regulated (and have been investigated many times and sometimes fined, which he raged about on Twitter constantly) by many of the agencies that he's now taking an axe to. They've pretended that he would "recuse himself", which of course never happened... instead they fired all of the ethics watchdogs that could enforce any recusals.

Oh, and he has a massive financial interest in creating the appearance of a justification for Trump's billionaire tax cut this fall. "OMG we found trillions in fraud to offset this tax cut!"

And yes, of course to complete his title of "Biggest Conflict of Interest in American History" I'm very sure his business will benefit bigly from the waterfall of new government contracts coming his way, new regulations and tariffs perfectly designed to ratfu** his competition, etc.

---

It seems impossible to concoct a setup where anyone on the planet would stand to financially benefit more than Musk does from DOGE given his capacity to shape the regulatory climate and institutional decision-making that both regulates AND subsidizes his companies to the tune of tens of billions of dollars.

It's a otherworldly conflict of interest that no one in Trump's orbit seems at all interested to discuss or mitigate.

Civilized said:

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Werewolf said:

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so Elon's motive for his deceit is what?

---

He's a colossally maladjusted weirdo so who knows? Being liked? Having followers that he misconstrues as friends? Being power-hungry? Being angry for having a trans kid or being unable to sustain meaningful and loving relationships with any of the four mothers of his fourteen children? Wanting to amass more wealth? Wanting to receive reflected radiance from a cult leader?

At the end of the day I don't know and don't care what his motives are; it's clear based on his actions to blindly dismantle institutions and the fountain of lies that he's spewed and propagated on X and elsewhere that he's cognitively challenged, completely hypocritical, and morally bankrupt.

He has the wealth, power, and standing to be one of the world's greatest benefactors and instead he's gleefully morphed into a caricature of an autistic villain. His motivations are his own, but we're all left to pick up the pieces.

---

Civ, the bolded describes the masses within the Democratic Party.

Now, regarding Elon... I believe I have been consistent in saying he is a wierd person. Also, I definitely think he's on the spectrum. I also question his life-style as it isn't consistent with the Christian values I have. That said, I also believe it's his life, not mine. He will have to atone for his way.

As far as being wealthy, power hungry, and all the other things, isn't that very consistent with anybody in the billionaire class?

BTW, I'm still struggling to see where Elon is blindly dismantling institutions; rather, finding the opportunities and providing these opportunities to the appropriate leader.

As far as him being a villain... I think that is the character that people, media, etc are creating to hurt him, because of Trump. People can't handle the fact that Trump is wanting these intuitional changes and Elon is out front looking for these opportunities.

Say what you want; however, you will never convince me that your whole (recent) ideology isn't built on a Trump hatred, formally known as TDS.

Civilized said:

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but we're all left to pick up the pieces.

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See. This is a joke, right?

So far, I see no pieces that need picked up.

You guys feign that the world is coming to an end, but so far what has really changed other than gas prices and grocery prices dropping a little bit. Where exactly is all this doom that you say is happening?

Hasn't. Happened. Yet. (and probably won't either)

Back to my 2nd and last question:

Is the young Doge team in on Elon's lie? Or is the team just a front, a fake?

I'm assuming the consensus of the 3 of you is that the $37T resulted from the billionaire class tax breaks? Or for some other reason?

So the question is always "what's the real truth?".............

The Atlantic is at it again

They say the Trump Administration “mistakingly” sent an innocent father to
to El Salvador.

Not an April fools joke.
😂 pic.twitter.com/u6tVNR0kNS

— 🇺🇸𝕄𝔸𝔾𝔸 𝑵𝒂𝒏𝒄𝒚 ن ♱ (@45LVNancy) April 1, 2025

Werewolf said:

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Back to my 2nd and last question:

Is the young Doge team in on Elon's lie? Or is the team just a front, a fake?

I'm assuming the consensus of the 3 of you is that the $37T resulted from the billionaire class tax breaks? Or for some other reason?

---

Again, is this a serious question?

It's a mystery for the ages how you can, on one hand, believe that the most likely explanation for a massive flood is the Illuminati controlling the weather, but then can't possibly see how Elon might have hand picked a bunch of loyal kids to do his dirty work.

Ironically, it sure seems like it's you (and Cary, etc) who have Trump Derangement Syndrome... anything involving Dear Leader completely shuts down your "discernment".

SmaptyWolf said:

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Werewolf said:

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Back to my 2nd and last question:

Is the young Doge team in on Elon's lie? Or is the team just a front, a fake?

I'm assuming the consensus of the 3 of you is that the $37T resulted from the billionaire class tax breaks? Or for some other reason?

---

Again, is this a serious question?

It's a mystery for the ages how you can, on one hand, believe that the most likely explanation for a massive flood is the Illuminati controlling the weather, but then can't possibly see how Elon might have hand picked a bunch of loyal kids to do his dirty work.

Ironically, it sure seems like it's you (and Cary, etc) who have Trump Derangement Syndrome... anything involving Dear Leader completely shuts down your "discernment".

---

Smapty, did you see my post above on the actual people on the DOGE team. These people are serious people. Not some random kids in the woods...

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5218847-meet-the-doge-team/

caryking said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

---

Werewolf said:

---

Back to my 2nd and last question:

Is the young Doge team in on Elon's lie? Or is the team just a front, a fake?

I'm assuming the consensus of the 3 of you is that the $37T resulted from the billionaire class tax breaks? Or for some other reason?

---

Again, is this a serious question?

It's a mystery for the ages how you can, on one hand, believe that the most likely explanation for a massive flood is the Illuminati controlling the weather, but then can't possibly see how Elon might have hand picked a bunch of loyal kids to do his dirty work.

Ironically, it sure seems like it's you (and Cary, etc) who have Trump Derangement Syndrome... anything involving Dear Leader completely shuts down your "discernment".

---

Smapty, did you see my post above on the actual people on the DOGE team. These people are serious people. Not some random kids in the woods...

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5218847-meet-the-doge-team/

---

You're confusing the DOGE yes-men that Elon has placed at the various agencies to "co-run" them. Those are at least adults. The team of hackers he has going from department to department are most definitely a bunch of kids with checkered pasts more than happy to rummage through systems that they may or may not have legal access to in order to find "fraud".

Incidentally, any technical person who's ever been involved in any kind of merger and tried to sort through another company's databases and code knows how absolutely absurd it is to claim that they found massive fraud in (let alone could even comprehend) these gigantic databases and ancient COBOL(!!!) systems in a matter of weeks. I don't care how elite they claim to be.

As expected, when they do release "findings" it's comical, which of course forces Elon to double down.

So you are now saying he actually was in MS13. And now more facts emerge. Turns out the judge in question is the infamous Boasberg, not an immigration judge as the original story would had us believe. Until/unless this matter is further clarified, the usual suspects have presented us with a nothing burger.

Oldsouljer said:

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So you are now saying he actually was in MS13. And now more facts emerge. Turns out the judge in question is the infamous Boasberg, not an immigration judge as the original story would had us believe. Until/unless this matter is further clarified, the usual suspects have presented us with a nothing burger.

---