SmaptyWolf said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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Can we stop with the dudette and cuck and MARXIST and other stupid name calling?

---

Can we stop the sarcastic, condescending, know-it-all, obnoxious, ass-holish, propaganda, left winged talking points?

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Trump created a safe space for you guys over at Truth Social. How much longer can you possibly tolerate all of this exposure to the real world? You could be over there Truthing each other off right now, with zero MARXISTS watching!

---

Once again, your condescending, obnoxious, ass-holish, left winged talking point showing how ignorant you are!

caryking said:

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Wufskins said:

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caryking said:

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Wufskins said:

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caryking said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Wufskins said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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caryking said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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You can always tell when Werewolf's meds have worn off... suddenly there 27 new posts barfed across every thread in the Water Cooler.

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Says the dudette that appears to be coked up everyday…

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Lol, half of Wall Street is coked up every day. You've clearly never talked to an actual cokehead.

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Ut oh, you got the dudette label. Be strong!

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Lol, yeah, having a couple 3rd grade kids myself I'm pretty used to dealing with people on their level.

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Who plays the male and female in your house?

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Why does it matter?

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disappear!

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If you can't handle me asking a simple question then put me on ignore buddy.

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Says the ignorant person that never answers a question. FYI, I'm not your buddy, dudette…

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Ask whatever you'd like buddy.

Civilized said:

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Can we stop with the dudette and cuck and MARXIST and other stupid name calling?

---

That would be refreshing.

Wufskins said:

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caryking said:

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Wufskins said:

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caryking said:

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Wufskins said:

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caryking said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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Wufskins said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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caryking said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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You can always tell when Werewolf's meds have worn off... suddenly there 27 new posts barfed across every thread in the Water Cooler.

---

Says the dudette that appears to be coked up everyday…

---

Lol, half of Wall Street is coked up every day. You've clearly never talked to an actual cokehead.

---

Ut oh, you got the dudette label. Be strong!

---

Lol, yeah, having a couple 3rd grade kids myself I'm pretty used to dealing with people on their level.

---

Who plays the male and female in your house?

---

Why does it matter?

---

disappear!

---

If you can't handle me asking a simple question then put me on ignore buddy.

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Says the ignorant person that never answers a question. FYI, I'm not your buddy, dudette…

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Ask whatever you'd like buddy.

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Nah… your schtick isn't worth it, dudette…

Sure thing lil buddy

Wufskins said:

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Sure thing lil buddy

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Ok, I give…. Let's move on for others sake..

caryking said:

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Wufskins said:

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Sure thing lil buddy

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Ok, I give…. Let's move on for others sake..

---

Let's all just calm down.

Very cosmopolitan.

LOL. ;-)

Why do these men always sound like Valley Girls? Explain. https://t.co/HCaCPWycyp

— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) April 5, 2024

Hasn't Trump been jabbed and boosted?

Well isn't this a big old howdy do.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice/2953122/dod-sued-over-obama-era-directive-on-classified-documents/

DOD sued over Obama-era directive on classified documents

America First Legal in January filed a Freedom of Information Act request to compel the DOD to submit information pertaining to a "secretive" technology committee created in 2014 under then-President Barack Obama in response to foreign cyberattack threats. Miller's group argues that the Presidential Information Technology Committee "creates a presumption that the President controls all information he receives" and says that it could have sweeping implications for Trump's 40-count indictment of allegedly mishandling classified records.

In March 2015, a publication of Obama's PITC memorandum established the president's "exclusive control" over information resources provided to the president, the vice president, and the Executive Office of the President. The memorandum made clear that any records sent to EOP systems or records stemming from those systems are controlled by the president.

AFL contends the PITC memorandum complicates the allegation against Trump because of the presumption the memo created of the president's exclusive control of information provided to him, or that "the former President may have believed that such exclusive control gave him authority to retain certain documents."

"Based upon its inspection of those records, the National Archives decided that classified information may have been possessed illegally and made a referral to the Department of Justice," AFL wrote in its nine-page complaint. "That referral informed the Special Counsel's case in the Southern District of Florida. However, if the originals of those records are in the possession of the Department of Defense (due to PITC), it would mean the records at Mar-a-Lago or at least some of them were mere copies of actual Presidential records and thus excluded from the Presidential Records Act."

Dan Epstein, an attorney for AFL, said the idea that PITC presumes all information received by the president is within his control complicates the indictment, "particularly on the question of what President Trump was authorized to access and retain."

If the court finds that the records subject to PITC are indeed agency records and not presidential records and were separately preserved by the DOD, Epstein argues that it still "raises serious questions" about NARA's decision to refer Trump to the Department of Justice because the referral would be based on a "false claim that President Trump removed presidential records," Epstein added.

-----------

Or Trump could start stuttering and talking gibberish and shaking hands with ghosts. Then he would be deemed too incompetent to stand trial but still competent to be President. As Yakov Smirnoff used to proclaim, "What a Country"

barelypure said:

---

Well isn't this a big old howdy do.

- insert nonsense here -

---

Wait, why did Trump have piles of nuclear secrets sitting around at Mar-a-lago again? Have you ever even tried to explain why he'd want that stuff so badly? This wasn't just "Oops! I didn't know that was here!"... he was actively hiding this stuff from the FBI to keep it. Why?

SmaptyWolf said:

---

barelypure said:

---

Well isn't this a big old howdy do.

- insert nonsense here -

---

Wait, why did Trump have piles of nuclear secrets sitting around at Mar-a-lago again? Have you ever even tried to explain why he'd want that stuff so badly? This wasn't just "Oops! I didn't know that was here!"... he was actively hiding this stuff from the FBI to keep it. Why?

---

You do realize the the nuclear secret documents he had were about another country and not ours, right? I suspect they had something to do with Iran's attempt to create nuclear weapons. Or possibly Lil' Rocket Man.

And if that's what they were I'm not sure classifying them as nuclear secrets isn't being done for political purposes when really they're not how to build a bomb but the negotiations surrounding their capability.

Like everything else it's being couched that way for maximum impact. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were background information about meetings with Iran over their nuclear program and nothing to do with actual nuclear secrets at all.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/07/trump-file-questions-answers/

You do realize that the main difference between Pence and Biden retaining classified documents and Trump doing the same is this thing called obstruction, right?

barelypure said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

barelypure said:

---

Well isn't this a big old howdy do.

- insert nonsense here -

---

Wait, why did Trump have piles of nuclear secrets sitting around at Mar-a-lago again? Have you ever even tried to explain why he'd want that stuff so badly? This wasn't just "Oops! I didn't know that was here!"... he was actively hiding this stuff from the FBI to keep it. Why?

---

You do realize the the nuclear secret documents he had were about another country and not ours, right? I suspect they had something to do with Iran's attempt to create nuclear weapons. Or possibly Lil' Rocket Man.

And if that's what they were I'm not sure classifying them as nuclear secrets isn't being done for political purposes when really they're not how to build a bomb but the negotiations surrounding their capability.

Like everything else it's being couched that way for maximum impact. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were background information about meetings with Iran over their nuclear program and nothing to do with actual nuclear secrets at all.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/07/trump-file-questions-answers/

---

You do realize that when any doc at our highest classification level gets revealed (and Trump had a pile of them), it basically guarantees that one or more of our foreign spies will be killed. Many of these spies took years to get into place in hostile countries like Iran, and are unreplaceable.

So given that Trump probably had that explained to him many times, why did he want all of those docs piled at Mar-a-lago again? Your link doesn't attempt to answer that.

Clearly our national security isn't his top priority. Sounds like it's not yours either.

barelypure said:

---

Well isn't this a big old howdy do.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice/2953122/dod-sued-over-obama-era-directive-on-classified-documents/

DOD sued over Obama-era directive on classified documents

America First Legal in January filed a Freedom of Information Act request to compel the DOD to submit information pertaining to a "secretive" technology committee created in 2014 under then-President Barack Obama in response to foreign cyberattack threats. Miller's group argues that the Presidential Information Technology Committee "creates a presumption that the President controls all information he receives" and says that it could have sweeping implications for Trump's 40-count indictment of allegedly mishandling classified records.

In March 2015, a publication of Obama's PITC memorandum established the president's "exclusive control" over information resources provided to the president, the vice president, and the Executive Office of the President. The memorandum made clear that any records sent to EOP systems or records stemming from those systems are controlled by the president.

AFL contends the PITC memorandum complicates the allegation against Trump because of the presumption the memo created of the president's exclusive control of information provided to him, or that "the former President may have believed that such exclusive control gave him authority to retain certain documents."

"Based upon its inspection of those records, the National Archives decided that classified information may have been possessed illegally and made a referral to the Department of Justice," AFL wrote in its nine-page complaint. "That referral informed the Special Counsel's case in the Southern District of Florida. However, if the originals of those records are in the possession of the Department of Defense (due to PITC), it would mean the records at Mar-a-Lago or at least some of them were mere copies of actual Presidential records and thus excluded from the Presidential Records Act."

Dan Epstein, an attorney for AFL, said the idea that PITC presumes all information received by the president is within his control complicates the indictment, "particularly on the question of what President Trump was authorized to access and retain."

If the court finds that the records subject to PITC are indeed agency records and not presidential records and were separately preserved by the DOD, Epstein argues that it still "raises serious questions" about NARA's decision to refer Trump to the Department of Justice because the referral would be based on a "false claim that President Trump removed presidential records," Epstein added.

-----------

Or Trump could start stuttering and talking gibberish and shaking hands with ghosts. Then he would be deemed too incompetent to stand trial but still competent to be President. As Yakov Smirnoff used to proclaim, "What a Country"

---

Biden wasn't deemed incompetent, he was deemed sympathetic.

Little bit of difference between those, no?

Wufskins said:

---

You do realize that the main difference between Pence and Biden retaining classified documents and Trump doing the same is this thing called obstruction, right?

---

Actually, it's the Presidential Records Act. This week, someone posted that Trump lost another ruling. My question is, why is Jack Smith *****ing so much about the ruling, if it went against Trump?

Civilized said:

---

barelypure said:

---

Well isn't this a big old howdy do.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice/2953122/dod-sued-over-obama-era-directive-on-classified-documents/

DOD sued over Obama-era directive on classified documents

America First Legal in January filed a Freedom of Information Act request to compel the DOD to submit information pertaining to a "secretive" technology committee created in 2014 under then-President Barack Obama in response to foreign cyberattack threats. Miller's group argues that the Presidential Information Technology Committee "creates a presumption that the President controls all information he receives" and says that it could have sweeping implications for Trump's 40-count indictment of allegedly mishandling classified records.

In March 2015, a publication of Obama's PITC memorandum established the president's "exclusive control" over information resources provided to the president, the vice president, and the Executive Office of the President. The memorandum made clear that any records sent to EOP systems or records stemming from those systems are controlled by the president.

AFL contends the PITC memorandum complicates the allegation against Trump because of the presumption the memo created of the president's exclusive control of information provided to him, or that "the former President may have believed that such exclusive control gave him authority to retain certain documents."

"Based upon its inspection of those records, the National Archives decided that classified information may have been possessed illegally and made a referral to the Department of Justice," AFL wrote in its nine-page complaint. "That referral informed the Special Counsel's case in the Southern District of Florida. However, if the originals of those records are in the possession of the Department of Defense (due to PITC), it would mean the records at Mar-a-Lago or at least some of them were mere copies of actual Presidential records and thus excluded from the Presidential Records Act."

Dan Epstein, an attorney for AFL, said the idea that PITC presumes all information received by the president is within his control complicates the indictment, "particularly on the question of what President Trump was authorized to access and retain."

If the court finds that the records subject to PITC are indeed agency records and not presidential records and were separately preserved by the DOD, Epstein argues that it still "raises serious questions" about NARA's decision to refer Trump to the Department of Justice because the referral would be based on a "false claim that President Trump removed presidential records," Epstein added.

-----------

Or Trump could start stuttering and talking gibberish and shaking hands with ghosts. Then he would be deemed too incompetent to stand trial but still competent to be President. As Yakov Smirnoff used to proclaim, "What a Country"

---

Biden wasn't deemed incompetent, he was deemed sympathetic.

Little bit of difference between those, no?

---

Go listen to Robert Hur's testimony…. He was very non committal, either way, on Biden. In other words, he didn't exonerate Biden, like people thinks he did.

caryking said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

You do realize that the main difference between Pence and Biden retaining classified documents and Trump doing the same is this thing called obstruction, right?

---

Actually, it's the Presidential Records Act. This week, someone posted that Trump lost another ruling. My question is, why is Jack Smith *****ing so much about the ruling, if it went against Trump?

---

No it's Trump's obstruction of justice. As to the PRA, Judge Cannon shot down that argument yesterday.

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

barelypure said:

---

Well isn't this a big old howdy do.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice/2953122/dod-sued-over-obama-era-directive-on-classified-documents/

DOD sued over Obama-era directive on classified documents

America First Legal in January filed a Freedom of Information Act request to compel the DOD to submit information pertaining to a "secretive" technology committee created in 2014 under then-President Barack Obama in response to foreign cyberattack threats. Miller's group argues that the Presidential Information Technology Committee "creates a presumption that the President controls all information he receives" and says that it could have sweeping implications for Trump's 40-count indictment of allegedly mishandling classified records.

In March 2015, a publication of Obama's PITC memorandum established the president's "exclusive control" over information resources provided to the president, the vice president, and the Executive Office of the President. The memorandum made clear that any records sent to EOP systems or records stemming from those systems are controlled by the president.

AFL contends the PITC memorandum complicates the allegation against Trump because of the presumption the memo created of the president's exclusive control of information provided to him, or that "the former President may have believed that such exclusive control gave him authority to retain certain documents."

"Based upon its inspection of those records, the National Archives decided that classified information may have been possessed illegally and made a referral to the Department of Justice," AFL wrote in its nine-page complaint. "That referral informed the Special Counsel's case in the Southern District of Florida. However, if the originals of those records are in the possession of the Department of Defense (due to PITC), it would mean the records at Mar-a-Lago or at least some of them were mere copies of actual Presidential records and thus excluded from the Presidential Records Act."

Dan Epstein, an attorney for AFL, said the idea that PITC presumes all information received by the president is within his control complicates the indictment, "particularly on the question of what President Trump was authorized to access and retain."

If the court finds that the records subject to PITC are indeed agency records and not presidential records and were separately preserved by the DOD, Epstein argues that it still "raises serious questions" about NARA's decision to refer Trump to the Department of Justice because the referral would be based on a "false claim that President Trump removed presidential records," Epstein added.

-----------

Or Trump could start stuttering and talking gibberish and shaking hands with ghosts. Then he would be deemed too incompetent to stand trial but still competent to be President. As Yakov Smirnoff used to proclaim, "What a Country"

---

Biden wasn't deemed incompetent, he was deemed sympathetic.

Little bit of difference between those, no?

---

Go listen to Robert Hur's testimony…. He was very non committal, either way, on Biden. In other words, he didn't exonerate Biden, like people thinks he did.

---

So was Mueller.

It's the typical outcome in these investigations.

It's interesting that Biden is using the same defense as Trump.

". During our interview of him, Mr. Biden was emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president before me has done the exact same thing," Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017, he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home.

Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen. These materials included (1) marked classified documents about military and foreign policy. The classified documents and other materials recovered in this case spanned Mr. Biden's career in national public life.

In addition. Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. (significantly limited = incompetent IMO)

Hur did say, A broad array of defense evidence is admissible at criminal trials for willfulness crimes that would not be admissible for crimes that require a less culpable mental state.

barelypure said:

---

It's interesting that Biden is using the same defense as Trump.

". During our interview of him, Mr. Biden was emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president before me has done the exact same thing," Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017, he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home.

Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen. These materials included (1) marked classified documents about military and foreign policy. The classified documents and other materials recovered in this case spanned Mr. Biden's career in national public life.

In addition. Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. (significantly limited = incompetent IMO)

Hur did say, A broad array of defense evidence is admissible at criminal trials for willfulness crimes that would not be admissible for crimes that require a less culpable mental state.

---

Same defense for having the documents.

Biden is offering no defense for obstructing the return of the documents because he didn't do that and was never accused of that.

Only Trump did that.

Civilized said:

---

barelypure said:

---

It's interesting that Biden is using the same defense as Trump.

". During our interview of him, Mr. Biden was emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president before me has done the exact same thing," Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017, he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home.

Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen. These materials included (1) marked classified documents about military and foreign policy. The classified documents and other materials recovered in this case spanned Mr. Biden's career in national public life.

In addition. Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. (significantly limited = incompetent IMO)

Hur did say, A broad array of defense evidence is admissible at criminal trials for willfulness crimes that would not be admissible for crimes that require a less culpable mental state.

---

Same defense for having the documents.

Biden is offering no defense for obstructing the return of the documents because he didn't do that and was never accused of that.

Only Trump did that.

---

And the Hur report acknowledges that distinction.

Wufskins said:

---

caryking said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

You do realize that the main difference between Pence and Biden retaining classified documents and Trump doing the same is this thing called obstruction, right?

---

Actually, it's the Presidential Records Act. This week, someone posted that Trump lost another ruling. My question is, why is Jack Smith *****ing so much about the ruling, if it went against Trump?

---

No it's Trump's obstruction of justice. As to the PRA, Judge Cannon shot down that argument yesterday.

---

Why is Jack Smith so upset about the ruling?

;-)

barelypure said:

---

It's interesting that Biden is using the same defense as Trump.

". During our interview of him, Mr. Biden was emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president before me has done the exact same thing," Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017, he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home.

Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen. These materials included (1) marked classified documents about military and foreign policy. The classified documents and other materials recovered in this case spanned Mr. Biden's career in national public life.

In addition. Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. (significantly limited = incompetent IMO)

Hur did say, A broad array of defense evidence is admissible at criminal trials for willfulness crimes that would not be admissible for crimes that require a less culpable mental state.

---

Nice try. If Trump had only kept his own personal notebooks that happened to contain (low level) classified information, then at least he would have an argument... and upon handing them over after discovery he would have been treated like every other politician in history (it's a non-issue) and the matter would have been closed.

Instead he had stacks of our highest level classified docs (not his personal notebooks or whatever)... the kind of stuff you need to be in a SCIF to even view. And upon discovery made a concerted effort not to return them.

Wait, why did he want those documents again? You didn't say.

caryking said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

caryking said:

---

Wufskins said:

---

You do realize that the main difference between Pence and Biden retaining classified documents and Trump doing the same is this thing called obstruction, right?

---

Actually, it's the Presidential Records Act. This week, someone posted that Trump lost another ruling. My question is, why is Jack Smith *****ing so much about the ruling, if it went against Trump?

---

No it's Trump's obstruction of justice. As to the PRA, Judge Cannon shot down that argument yesterday.

---

Why is Jack Smith so upset about the ruling?

---

He's upset about the delays and her stance on jury instructions. Which is another way of her delaying. She's already been b slapped by the 11th circuit for her handling of this case. And she's teetering on getting removed.

Here is an article, written in a way, to appease the left…

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/05/trump-classified-documents-special-counsel-judge-00150752

SmaptyWolf said:

---

barelypure said:

---

It's interesting that Biden is using the same defense as Trump.

". During our interview of him, Mr. Biden was emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president before me has done the exact same thing," Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017, he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home.

Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen. These materials included (1) marked classified documents about military and foreign policy. The classified documents and other materials recovered in this case spanned Mr. Biden's career in national public life.

In addition. Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. (significantly limited = incompetent IMO)

Hur did say, A broad array of defense evidence is admissible at criminal trials for willfulness crimes that would not be admissible for crimes that require a less culpable mental state.

---

Nice try. If Trump had only kept his own personal notebooks that happened to contain (low level) classified information, then at least he would have an argument... and upon handing them over after discovery he would have been treated like every other politician in history (it's a non-issue) and the matter would have been closed.

Instead he had stacks of our highest level classified docs (not his personal notebooks or whatever)... the kind of stuff you need to be in a SCIF to even view. And upon discovery made a concerted effort not to return them.

Wait, why did he want those documents again? You didn't say.

---

I'm glad you brought up a SCIF. You mean like the one Senator Biden stole and still had in his possession for over a decade. He wasn't suffering from mental issues back then (well except for being a Democrat some might say is a mental issue) and yet he not only took the document but kept the document for years. That's akin to a bank robber giving back the money years after he stole it and getting a pass because he didn't object to giving the money back. And the DA decides not to prosecute because the bank robber is forgetful.

He didn't voluntarily give the documents back until it came out that he had them. Had his lawyers who found the stash at the Penn Center had kept their mouths shut odds are he never would have returned the documents. He knew he had them. He had revealed classified information to his ghost writer. That was the point at which it should have dawned on him he shouldn't have those documents and turned them in then. That way saying it was an honest mistake would be believable. Instead he returned them back to the beat up cardboard box in the garage. I'd call that passive obstruction.

Plus keep in mind Senators and Vice Presidents don't have the same retention rights as Presidents. Also, the FBI could and should have removed the documents rather than telling Trump to lock them up in the storeroom. No this is nothing more than another case of lawfare in the Democrats efforts to "Get Trump". Otherwise this would be a civil case and not a criminal case. Smith had to bring in the Espionage Act, which hadn't been used since its inception, to make it criminal.

In short, it's much ado about nothing and a lot of speculation about what the documents were since very few actually have seen them.

barelypure said:

---

SmaptyWolf said:

---

barelypure said:

---

It's interesting that Biden is using the same defense as Trump.

". During our interview of him, Mr. Biden was emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president before me has done the exact same thing," Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017, he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home.

Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen. These materials included (1) marked classified documents about military and foreign policy. The classified documents and other materials recovered in this case spanned Mr. Biden's career in national public life.

In addition. Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. (significantly limited = incompetent IMO)

Hur did say, A broad array of defense evidence is admissible at criminal trials for willfulness crimes that would not be admissible for crimes that require a less culpable mental state.

---

Nice try. If Trump had only kept his own personal notebooks that happened to contain (low level) classified information, then at least he would have an argument... and upon handing them over after discovery he would have been treated like every other politician in history (it's a non-issue) and the matter would have been closed.

Instead he had stacks of our highest level classified docs (not his personal notebooks or whatever)... the kind of stuff you need to be in a SCIF to even view. And upon discovery made a concerted effort not to return them.

Wait, why did he want those documents again? You didn't say.

---

I'm glad you brought up a SCIF. You mean like the one Senator Biden stole and still had in his possession for over a decade. He wasn't suffering from mental issues back then (well except for being a Democrat some might say is a mental issue) and yet he not only took the document but kept the document for years. That's akin to a bank robber giving back the money years after he stole it and getting a pass because he didn't object to giving the money back. And the DA decides not to prosecute because the bank robber is forgetful.

He didn't voluntarily give the documents back until it came out that he had them. Had his lawyers who found the stash at the Penn Center had kept their mouths shut odds are he never would have returned the documents. He knew he had them. He had revealed classified information to his ghost writer. That was the point at which it should have dawned on him he shouldn't have those documents and turned them in then. That way saying it was an honest mistake would be believable. Instead he returned them back to the beat up cardboard box in the garage. I'd call that passive obstruction.

Plus keep in mind Senators and Vice Presidents don't have the same retention rights as Presidents. Also, the FBI could and should have removed the documents rather than telling Trump to lock them up in the storeroom. No this is nothing more than another case of lawfare in the Democrats efforts to "Get Trump". Otherwise this would be a civil case and not a criminal case. Smith had to bring in the Espionage Act, which hadn't been used since its inception, to make it criminal.

In short, it's much ado about nothing and a lot of speculation about what the documents were since very few actually have seen them.

---

A SCIF is a secure room. I doubt Biden stole one of those.

Lol, I get it, you guys will defend the indefensible, no matter how much nonsense you have to throw at the wall. Yes, Biden had a notebook in a box that he didn't "voluntarily" remember for a decade until it was unearthed.

But honestly, why on Earth did Trump even want that stuff? They weren't his personal notebooks. They were insanely classified national security docs. And he obstructed the FBI from getting them back. Why would anyone do that?

Don't - yet - know if this is true, developing or what.

‼️ATTENTION‼️

Trump's attorney, Alina Habba exposed Judge Arthur Engoron!

He took a $10,000,000 BRIBE from Biden's shell companies to convict Donald Trump and Alina posted PROOF!

JOIN this channel to download the documents. https://t.co/AuiNPGMLkn pic.twitter.com/1wYOCZKrkP

— Sheri™ (@FFT1776) April 5, 2024

Donald Trump is the dumbest president in American history

Never Trump. pic.twitter.com/lZQq584a5Q

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) April 5, 2024

This is interesting…

But I thought House Republicans couldn’t raise money without McCarthy? https://t.co/O83kCCenr4

— Caroline Wren (@CarolineWren) April 6, 2024

SmaptyWolf said:

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barelypure said:

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SmaptyWolf said:

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barelypure said:

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It's interesting that Biden is using the same defense as Trump.

". During our interview of him, Mr. Biden was emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president before me has done the exact same thing," Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017, he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home.

Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen. These materials included (1) marked classified documents about military and foreign policy. The classified documents and other materials recovered in this case spanned Mr. Biden's career in national public life.

In addition. Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. (significantly limited = incompetent IMO)

Hur did say, A broad array of defense evidence is admissible at criminal trials for willfulness crimes that would not be admissible for crimes that require a less culpable mental state.

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Nice try. If Trump had only kept his own personal notebooks that happened to contain (low level) classified information, then at least he would have an argument... and upon handing them over after discovery he would have been treated like every other politician in history (it's a non-issue) and the matter would have been closed.

Instead he had stacks of our highest level classified docs (not his personal notebooks or whatever)... the kind of stuff you need to be in a SCIF to even view. And upon discovery made a concerted effort not to return them.

Wait, why did he want those documents again? You didn't say.

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I'm glad you brought up a SCIF. You mean like the one Senator Biden stole and still had in his possession for over a decade. He wasn't suffering from mental issues back then (well except for being a Democrat some might say is a mental issue) and yet he not only took the document but kept the document for years. That's akin to a bank robber giving back the money years after he stole it and getting a pass because he didn't object to giving the money back. And the DA decides not to prosecute because the bank robber is forgetful.

He didn't voluntarily give the documents back until it came out that he had them. Had his lawyers who found the stash at the Penn Center had kept their mouths shut odds are he never would have returned the documents. He knew he had them. He had revealed classified information to his ghost writer. That was the point at which it should have dawned on him he shouldn't have those documents and turned them in then. That way saying it was an honest mistake would be believable. Instead he returned them back to the beat up cardboard box in the garage. I'd call that passive obstruction.

Plus keep in mind Senators and Vice Presidents don't have the same retention rights as Presidents. Also, the FBI could and should have removed the documents rather than telling Trump to lock them up in the storeroom. No this is nothing more than another case of lawfare in the Democrats efforts to "Get Trump". Otherwise this would be a civil case and not a criminal case. Smith had to bring in the Espionage Act, which hadn't been used since its inception, to make it criminal.

In short, it's much ado about nothing and a lot of speculation about what the documents were since very few actually have seen them.

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A SCIF is a secure room. I doubt Biden stole one of those.

Lol, I get it, you guys will defend the indefensible, no matter how much nonsense you have to throw at the wall. Yes, Biden had a notebook in a box that he didn't "voluntarily" remember for a decade until it was unearthed.

But honestly, why on Earth did Trump even want that stuff? They weren't his personal notebooks. They were insanely classified national security docs. And he obstructed the FBI from getting them back. Why would anyone do that?

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OK, you got me. I left of the word documents. But even with that omission I would have thought it was apparent.

OK, let's say he stole the document from the SCIF and didn't remember it. Wouldn't it have been natural that when he was entertaining the ghost writer for his book and he brought out classified documents that he shared illegally with someone not cleared to see that information it would have jogged him memory to wonder what other classified information he might have and turn all of it over then.

But no he didn't do that. Instead he secreted the classified information and kept it secret. It wasn't until his lawyers discovered some classified information at the Penn Center that it became public. Then the search ws on to see what he had and where. You can say voluntary, I prefer to believe that his lawyers convinced him to come clean to avoid trouble.

But let's turn the question around, why on Earth did Biden even want that stuff? The way it was scattered, the way it was kept shows it was no longer of any interest to him. He'd already gotten the book written and that was the time to turn it back in. But no he made a conscious decision to keep the material until his lawyers, years later, convinced him to turn it in. So let's not pretend he's some saint.

As to Pence I can well believe he didn't know his travel books contained classified information. When he found out he did voluntarily turn the information in. That's how it's supposed to work.