If anything, at least Civ is who we all knew he was to begin with...

The stuff about Biden and his economy is pure gold!

Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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packgrad said:

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TDS is a mental illness.

" Let Biden start doing openly crazy, unpresidential, illegal **** and watch the fireworks"

Start!?!?!? Lolol.

---

Civ appears to be a smart guy; however, his insistence that we didn't have a peaceful transfer of power is so naive and bought into some narrative that's just STUDIP!

---

Notwithstanding the willful ignorance of you and packgrad ignoring Trump's multiple indignant refusals to underscore the necessity of a peaceful transition in the runup to January 6 and the violence on January 6, it's also dripping in irony that the only reason we had a transition of power at all is because Trump didn't succeed at illegally (objection) coercing his cronies to overturn the election.

But somehow his unprecedented and illegal electoral conduct is fine and it's the complainers that are the actual problem.

---

Civ, based on your comments, I'd love to be on the other side negotiating a business transaction, with you. A person always uses every tactic they can, in order to win!!

You and I disagree on the following…

Trump believes the election was errored in a big way
Several State legislators sent letters for their electors to be sent back for 10 days
Pence chose not to do that
Transfer of power

I know you have questioned his sincerity on the election and think he did it to retain power. Well, you and I disagree! I don't like losing! I will keep pushing until I realize nothing more can be done.

Oh and BTW, your bolded is a perfect example of transfer of power…

---

That was the problem. Nothing more could be done. Trump had already lost both the election and the post-election lawsuits challenging the election results.

It's game over at that point. Certify the election. Take the L and go home.

Instead he illegally obstructed the certification. For weeks he'd been telling Pence to reject or return the states' votes and pressuring state legislators and officials to overturn the election results so the fake electors could be installed, even though his lawsuits had failed to invalidate the lawful election's results.

You're a big constitutionalist, you should recognize Pence and Trump have no such authority.

And how much faith could you possibly have that Trump's team is appropriately and legally pushing the issue "to the echo of the whistle" as Chuck Amato used to say, but not stepping over the line, when you had Rudy and Sid out there peddling insane and completely unsupportable legal theories about the election to they and our country's very obvious detriment?

Trump and his team were not grinding out legally cogent arguments and strategies. They were not playing refined 3D chess, skirting the bounds of legality with precision.

They were throwing tractor trailers full of **** against the wall, hoping and praying some feces would eventually stick. They knowingly risked their careers, reputations, personal finances, and possibly their legal freedom on loony and very likely illegal strategies to keep Trump in power. That's going to have consequences for those that have plead guilty or will ultimately be found guilty of the election crimes they committed.

---

Civ, the election, on its face, was won by Biden. I concede…. That said, a number of state legislatures saw, what they thought, was an errored election. You can say that Trump created this narrative. Fine! It doesn't change the fact that these legislators acted in accordance to their belief, on what they saw…

So, read the Electoral Count Act of 1887 and you will see exactly what they were trying to do. In fact, it's so obvious, the Democratic controlled US Congress made changes to it, I believe, snuck into a larger omnibus bill.

You can quote all the narrative, perhaps created by the typical Democratic rags, we are all subject too; however, I can find as many counter arguments, by typical Republican rags, I am subject too…. It might be advantageous for you to explore media that I watch. I do that for your arguments... So, we can both be on the same page with our information…

I will say… I do have doubt on all this. The evidence keeps pushing the doubt down…. I guess, it is what it is!

If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021.

"If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021."

He's going to make things worse? I don't understand this statement

caryking said:

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Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

---

packgrad said:

---

TDS is a mental illness.

" Let Biden start doing openly crazy, unpresidential, illegal **** and watch the fireworks"

Start!?!?!? Lolol.

---

Civ appears to be a smart guy; however, his insistence that we didn't have a peaceful transfer of power is so naive and bought into some narrative that's just STUDIP!

---

Notwithstanding the willful ignorance of you and packgrad ignoring Trump's multiple indignant refusals to underscore the necessity of a peaceful transition in the runup to January 6 and the violence on January 6, it's also dripping in irony that the only reason we had a transition of power at all is because Trump didn't succeed at illegally (objection) coercing his cronies to overturn the election.

But somehow his unprecedented and illegal electoral conduct is fine and it's the complainers that are the actual problem.

---

Civ, based on your comments, I'd love to be on the other side negotiating a business transaction, with you. A person always uses every tactic they can, in order to win!!

You and I disagree on the following…

Trump believes the election was errored in a big way
Several State legislators sent letters for their electors to be sent back for 10 days
Pence chose not to do that
Transfer of power

I know you have questioned his sincerity on the election and think he did it to retain power. Well, you and I disagree! I don't like losing! I will keep pushing until I realize nothing more can be done.

Oh and BTW, your bolded is a perfect example of transfer of power…

---

That was the problem. Nothing more could be done. Trump had already lost both the election and the post-election lawsuits challenging the election results.

It's game over at that point. Certify the election. Take the L and go home.

Instead he illegally obstructed the certification. For weeks he'd been telling Pence to reject or return the states' votes and pressuring state legislators and officials to overturn the election results so the fake electors could be installed, even though his lawsuits had failed to invalidate the lawful election's results.

You're a big constitutionalist, you should recognize Pence and Trump have no such authority.

And how much faith could you possibly have that Trump's team is appropriately and legally pushing the issue "to the echo of the whistle" as Chuck Amato used to say, but not stepping over the line, when you had Rudy and Sid out there peddling insane and completely unsupportable legal theories about the election to they and our country's very obvious detriment?

Trump and his team were not grinding out legally cogent arguments and strategies. They were not playing refined 3D chess, skirting the bounds of legality with precision.

They were throwing tractor trailers full of **** against the wall, hoping and praying some feces would eventually stick. They knowingly risked their careers, reputations, personal finances, and possibly their legal freedom on loony and very likely illegal strategies to keep Trump in power. That's going to have consequences for those that have plead guilty or will ultimately be found guilty of the election crimes they committed.

---

Civ, the election, on its face, was won by Biden. I concede…. That said, a number of state legislatures saw, what they thought, was an errored election. You can say that Trump created this narrative. Fine! It doesn't change the fact that these legislators acted in accordance to their belief, on what they saw…

So, read the Electoral Count Act of 1887 and you will see exactly what they were trying to do. In fact, it's so obvious, the Democratic controlled US Congress made changes to it, I believe, snuck into a larger omnibus bill.

You can quote all the narrative, perhaps created by the typical Democratic rags, we are all subject too; however, I can find as many counter arguments, by typical Republican rags, I am subject too…. It might be advantageous for you to explore media that I watch. I do that for your arguments... So, we can both be on the same page with our information…

I will say… I do have doubt on all this. The evidence keeps pushing the doubt down…. I guess, it is what it is!

If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021.

---

Yeah. So, about the Electoral Count Act.

Here, in Trump's own words, was his post-mortem on their illegal attempts on Jan. 6:

Quote:

---

Trump said, "...how come the Democrats and RINO Republicans, like Wacky Susan Collins, are desperately trying to pass legislation that will not allow the Vice President to change the results of the election?"

"Actually, what they are saying, is that Mike Pence did have the right to change the outcome, and they now want to take that right away. Unfortunately, he didn't exercise that power. He could have overturned the Election!" Trump falsely claimed in a statement late Sunday.

---

Obviously the Electoral Count Act of 1887 did not in any way, shape, or form give the VP the power to change the election outcome.

So what exactly should sane people's response be to Trump's declaration - more than a year after the election - that Pence should have just changed the election result, and that it's unfair, by God, that Congress passed bipartisan legislation to further reduce the likelihood that any future VP would be robbed of the opportunity to do the same?

Trumps own words don't describe the Electoral Count Act even in the most liberal of interpretations; they describe illegal obstruction of certifying a lawful election.

A quick look on the internet gave this summary…

The Electoral Count Act of 1887 (ECA) provides the primary legal framework for casting and counting electoral votes for president and vice president in accordance with the requirements of the Constitution. In addition to setting a timeline for selecting electors and transmitting their votes to Congress, the ECA establishes certain dispute-resolution procedures for the counting process in Congressincluding when Congress receives competing slates of electoral votes from the same state. Together with the Twelfth Amendment, the ECA also sets out the limited, ministerial role that the vice president, as the President of the Senate, plays in counting the electoral votes.

Civ, good reading for you…

https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2022/02/13/the-vice-presidents-powers-and-the-electoral-count-act/

hokiewolf said:

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"If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021."

He's going to make things worse? I don't understand this statement

---

He will for some of the people here.

caryking said:

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A quick look on the internet gave this summary…

The Electoral Count Act of 1887 (ECA) provides the primary legal framework for casting and counting electoral votes for president and vice president in accordance with the requirements of the Constitution. In addition to setting a timeline for selecting electors and transmitting their votes to Congress, the ECA establishes certain dispute-resolution procedures for the counting process in Congressincluding when Congress receives competing slates of electoral votes from the same state. Together with the Twelfth Amendment, the ECA also sets out the limited, ministerial role that the vice president, as the President of the Senate, plays in counting the electoral votes.

Civ, good reading for you…

https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2022/02/13/the-vice-presidents-powers-and-the-electoral-count-act/

---

You'll be pleased to hear that I've at least nominally educated myself on the 14th this morning Cary.

The article you quoted (and all others) explicitly describe the VP's role as ministerial and ceremonial. He can't legally change the result, yet Trump wanted and pressured him to.

How do you square the 14th, with Trump's actions that ran counter to it?

caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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"If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021."

He's going to make things worse? I don't understand this statement

---

He will for some of the people here.

---

So the goal when elected is revenge rather than governing?

caryking said:

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If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021.

---

What exactly have you had to endure since January of 2021 that a Trump re-election in 2020 would have saved you from?

Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021.

---

What exactly have you had to endure since January of 2021 that a Trump re-election in 2020 would have saved you from?

---

A man unfit for office parading around pretending to be president. He literally says "they're going to get mad at me" whenever he goes off script.

But that's ok for the pretindependents. Anything but Trump. They don't care that people not voted for are running the country.

TDS is real.

Biden is everyone's senile Grandpa except he's in charge of nukes pic.twitter.com/hWJqHigEfU

— Heidi (@HeidiBriones) January 1, 2024

Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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A quick look on the internet gave this summary…

The Electoral Count Act of 1887 (ECA) provides the primary legal framework for casting and counting electoral votes for president and vice president in accordance with the requirements of the Constitution. In addition to setting a timeline for selecting electors and transmitting their votes to Congress, the ECA establishes certain dispute-resolution procedures for the counting process in Congressincluding when Congress receives competing slates of electoral votes from the same state. Together with the Twelfth Amendment, the ECA also sets out the limited, ministerial role that the vice president, as the President of the Senate, plays in counting the electoral votes.

Civ, good reading for you…

https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2022/02/13/the-vice-presidents-powers-and-the-electoral-count-act/

---

You'll be pleased to hear that I've at least nominally educated myself on the 14th this morning Cary.

The article you quoted (and all others) explicitly describe the VP's role as ministerial and ceremonial. He can't legally change the result, yet Trump wanted and pressured him to.

How do you square the 14th, with Trump's actions that ran counter to it?

---

I think the 14th, along with Electorial Count Act of 1887, provided the request to the congress for considering another slate of electors. The request was for Pence to see that he had other electors and/or State congress requests to send all the electors back, for (I think) a 10 day review.

Civ, a precedent has been set, many elections before, where congressional member would object to the certification. This was going to happen until knuckleheads made their appearance, at the Capitol, right?

Trump never asked Pence to change the results (narrative created); rather, send the electors back, to the States, as per their request. Once that was finalized, on January 6th, the legal tasks were to challenge how the election were held. Whether you believe shenanigans were done, via law fare, that allowed for inappropriate votes, or not, that was the tact of the Trump team. As soon as January 20th came along, Trump left, Biden went in.

The rest his history and conjecture for people.

Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021.

---

What exactly have you had to endure since January of 2021 that a Trump re-election in 2020 would have saved you from?

---

Personal financial struggles that caused my family tightness…

hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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"If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021."

He's going to make things worse? I don't understand this statement

---

He will for some of the people here.

---

So the goal when elected is revenge rather than governing?

---

Not revenge; rather, unhappy people because of the governing style…. Are you happy right now?

caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021.

---

What exactly have you had to endure since January of 2021 that a Trump re-election in 2020 would have saved you from?

---

Personal financial struggles that caused my family tightness…

---

Sorry to hear of course, but how did Biden create that problem, or how would have Trump avoided it?

caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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"If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021."

He's going to make things worse? I don't understand this statement

---

He will for some of the people here.

---

So the goal when elected is revenge rather than governing?

---

Not revenge; rather, unhappy people because of the governing style…. Are you happy right now?

---

I generally haven't been happy with government since 2007. I wasn't to thrilled with the lack of conservative ideas passed in the two years that the Republicans had the majority, as well as the increase in government spending both pre and post Covid.

Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

---

caryking said:

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If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021.

---

What exactly have you had to endure since January of 2021 that a Trump re-election in 2020 would have saved you from?

---

Personal financial struggles that caused my family tightness…

---

Sorry to hear of course, but how did Biden create that problem, or how would have Trump avoided it?

---

Civ, I'm not poor, by any means…. I'm just talking about the same thing most people complain about. For instance, the #7 at McDonalds has risen significantly in the last three years.

hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

"If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021."

He's going to make things worse? I don't understand this statement

---

He will for some of the people here.

---

So the goal when elected is revenge rather than governing?

---

Not revenge; rather, unhappy people because of the governing style…. Are you happy right now?

---

I generally haven't been happy with government since 2007. I wasn't to thrilled with the lack of conservative ideas passed in the two years that the Republicans had the majority, as well as the increase in government spending both pre and post Covid.

---

Hokie, the idea that Republicans are conservatives went away prior to 2007. Unfortunately, between the two parties, both are spenders like we ever seen. Yes, that includes the Trump years!

caryking said:

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hokiewolf said:

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caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

caryking said:

---

hokiewolf said:

---

"If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021."

He's going to make things worse? I don't understand this statement

---

He will for some of the people here.

---

So the goal when elected is revenge rather than governing?

---

Not revenge; rather, unhappy people because of the governing style…. Are you happy right now?

---

I generally haven't been happy with government since 2007. I wasn't to thrilled with the lack of conservative ideas passed in the two years that the Republicans had the majority, as well as the increase in government spending both pre and post Covid.

---

Hokie, the idea that Republicans are conservatives went away prior to 2007. Unfortunately, between the two parties, both are spenders like we ever seen. Yes, that includes the Trump years!

---

The Republican-run General Assembly has become as corrupt as the Democrats of the Jim Black years. And they work hard to push out conservatives in government. They've been waging war against Treasurer Dale Folwell and Insurance Commissioner Causey because they wouldn't toe the line and major donors got mad about it. Folwell got lured out of the Treasurers office where they really couldn't touch him, in a forlorn shot at Governor, where they have him in their sights. Causey is getting a primary from one of the establishment flu kids, a former legislator. Conservatives have no place in the GOP, need to realize that, and reregister as NC Constitution Party members.

Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021.

---

What exactly have you had to endure since January of 2021 that a Trump re-election in 2020 would have saved you from?

---

Personal financial struggles that caused my family tightness…

---

Sorry to hear of course, but how did Biden create that problem, or how would have Trump avoided it?

---

#Sieve, you're right. The American people have a lot to be thankful for .........the most prosperity in many years and peace across the globe since Biden stepped in to save America.

Americans are withdrawing their warships from the Red Sea to avoid being directly targeted by Houthi anti-ship precision ballistic missiles pic.twitter.com/8o78ywcRAa

— Sarah Wilkinson (@swilkinsonbc) January 1, 2024

Sieve, we've got another year of BIden prosperity and world peace to look forward to in 2024. All of America should be thankful and we look forward to another great year of Bidenonics and global stability under the great BIden team!

Werewolf said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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Civilized said:

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caryking said:

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If Trump wins, you will have to endure what others have had to endure since January of 2021.

---

What exactly have you had to endure since January of 2021 that a Trump re-election in 2020 would have saved you from?

---

Personal financial struggles that caused my family tightness…

---

Sorry to hear of course, but how did Biden create that problem, or how would have Trump avoided it?

---

#Sieve, you're right. The American people have a lot to be thankful for .........the most prosperity in many years and peace across the globe since Biden stepped in to save America.

Americans are withdrawing their warships from the Red Sea to avoid being directly targeted by Houthi anti-ship precision ballistic missiles pic.twitter.com/8o78ywcRAa

— Sarah Wilkinson (@swilkinsonbc) January 1, 2024

---

I'm very confused, isn't this what you want? You guys espouse America First policies and isolationism. Wouldn't the tweet you quoted be something for you to celebrate?

Yet we've got a fleet parked off the Mediterranean coast.

You fail to understand Trump diplomacy and peace through strength provided all that............yet you discount all that you see underway now. You're no different than #theSieve and #nappy. #Uniparty sheeple.

Werewolf said:

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Yet we've got a fleet parked off the Mediterranean coast.

You fail to understand Trump diplomacy and peace through strength provided all that............yet you discount all that you see underway now. You're no different than #theSieve and #nappy. #Uniparty sheeple.

---

I do understand Trump diplomacy and I also understand that the people who did all the heavy lifting will not be in the next Trump administration because all of the cronies hate them.

LOL, it wasn't Trump, it was people in his admin........that he won't have back. Priceless. Keep em' coming......

Werewolf said:

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LOL, it wasn't Trump, it was people in his admin........that he won't have back. Priceless. Keep em' coming......

---

can't wait to se what Sebass Gorka cooks up for foreign policy!

"will not be in the next Trump administration"

Trump lost fair n square in 2020, BIden is doing a fantastic job,......BIdenomics and Global Peace. How the he$$ can there be a "next Trump admi'?

;-)

hokiewolf said:

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Werewolf said:

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LOL, it wasn't Trump, it was people in his admin........that he won't have back. Priceless. Keep em' coming......

---

can't wait to se what Sebass Gorka cooks up for foreign policy!

---

All this world peace and global security we're now experiencing will be undone if the fairly elected BIden is unseated by Trump. ..........LMAO.

You are #DaHoak, no doubt.

Werewolf said:

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Yet we've got a fleet parked off the Mediterranean coast.

You fail to understand Trump diplomacy and peace through strength provided all that............yet you discount all that you see underway now. You're no different than #theSieve and #nappy. #Uniparty sheeple.

---

Lol, man you live in a fantasy land.

First, mind providing a non-fake link showing U.S. warships actually leaving the Red Sea? Seems like our destroyers are over there actively sinking pirates as we speak.

Second, Trump's "diplomacy" consisted of giving Putin everything he ever wanted (the list is a mile long, including trying to implode NATO) for nothing in return, and writing love letters to Kim Jong Un. We even got to experience the most pathetic and embarrassing Presidential groveling to a foreign leader in American history:

LOL, the return of RUSSIA RUSSIA........

Werewolf said:

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LOL, the return of RUSSIA RUSSIA........

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Oh come one, when you watch that video you don't barf in your mouth at least a little? The press conference lasted like an hour, and the whole thing is pretty jaw-dropping.

Trump: "President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial! Oh, and Putin offered to have his people take over the investigation, what an amazing offer!"

hokiewolf said:

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Werewolf said:

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LOL, it wasn't Trump, it was people in his admin........that he won't have back. Priceless. Keep em' coming......

---

can't wait to se what Sebass Gorka cooks up for foreign policy!

---

Uninformed… Gorka is for supporting Ukraine.

SmaptyWolf said:

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Werewolf said:

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LOL, the return of RUSSIA RUSSIA........

---

Oh come one, when you watch that video you don't barf in your mouth at least a little? The press conference lasted like an hour, and the whole thing is pretty jaw-dropping.

Trump: "President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial! Oh, and Putin offered to have his people take over the investigation, what an amazing offer!"

---

You may have somethin' there. I mean where was I ..........the news media covered it to a tee. Collusion in real time.....evidence was not circumstantial. Exposed!!!

You need a straw to drink from.........to along with a syringe for your arm.

4 Minutes of Russia Collusion Hoax from the Mockingbird Media & Deep State Puppets (rumble.com)

All the people who accused Trump of being on Epsteins list logging into X and logging straight tf out pic.twitter.com/nTwr3ROn3x

— PoliticalPuertoRican 🇵🇷 𝕏 🇺🇸 (@PRMemes_) January 4, 2024

packgrad said:

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All the people who accused Trump of being on Epsteins list logging into X and logging straight tf out pic.twitter.com/nTwr3ROn3x

— PoliticalPuertoRican 🇵🇷 𝕏 🇺🇸 (@PRMemes_) January 4, 2024

---

Main story on Yahoo, has pictures of Epstein, Clinton, and Trump with the headline "Names of Epstein's associate's revealed in court documents" or something like that. They are trying to subliminally mention that Trump was on the list. No MSM outlet will say how the new infomation does in fact exonerate Trump